Post by: WindyMan on December 22, 2005, 04:19:19 PM
NGC Magazine has been around the United Kingdom for a few years now, so a scoop like this is likely legit. Nintendo has informed the publication what's been going on with the new Zelda, and the details revealed might confirm some of the speculation that's come about from the delay.
It appears that Twlight Princess will be compatible with the Revolution controller when played on the Revolution. This doesn't mean that the title has been scrapped from the GameCube, as it will still be released as a GameCube game. Inserting the Zelda disc into the backwards-compatible Revolution will enable the Revolution controller mode if desired.
There were no further details on how exactly the controller would be used in the game, but NGC did offer some spectulation. The most obvious use for the pointer half of the controller would be for swinging Link's sword around, and using the analog stick portion for movement, locking-on and shield control. Further speculation included using the controller for pulling back on a bowstring for precise arrow shooting and controlling Epona with reins and a whip.
With this revolutionary revelation came word of a possible release date of the game and the Revolution itself for the European territories. "Late 2006" was the timeframe handed down for the new system's UK release, with Zelda "coming out close to the Revolution's launch date." If the former is true, then that would mean Nintendo would presumably get the system out in North America around Thanksgiving as well, indicating a simulataneous worldwide launch. If the latter is true, then Nintendo will be offering Zelda as a Revolution launch title at the same time as giving GameCube owners one last reason to use the system.
This interesting development in the development of Zelda: Twlight Princess should make Nintendo's E3 2006 press conference at the Kodak Theater in Hollywood a lot more interesting.
Thanks to radioheadrule83 at GAF for the heads-up!
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on December 22, 2005, 04:57:53 PM
Post by: WindyMan on December 22, 2005, 05:05:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BiLdItUp1
Hmm...they took the middle route...nice that they've add that functionality. I just hope that it hasn't been showhorned in, and also (somewhat meekly) that they'll have something for us to munch on in the mean time (any important Cube games on the horizon?)
Zelda is the only important GameCube game left. If they do push it back another year, then Nintendo is basically acknowledging the death the the system and ensuring that the Revolution won't get off to a lackluster start. Making sure the Revolution has a good start is eternally more important, if you ask me.
For all intents and purposes, the GameCube version of Twilight Princess is complete. I bet they could release it now just for the GameCube and it would be perfect. What Nintendo is likely doing now (and why they delayed it in the first place) is to add in the Revolution functionality, and perhaps even code in some graphical improvements.
I doubt it would take another year just to make the game work with the controller, let me just put it that way.
Post by: King of Twitch on December 22, 2005, 05:17:04 PM
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on December 22, 2005, 05:27:13 PM
Post by: mantidor on December 22, 2005, 06:06:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: WindyMan
For all intents and purposes, the GameCube version of Twilight Princess is complete. I bet they could release it now just for the GameCube and it would be perfect. What Nintendo is likely doing now (and why they delayed it in the first place) is to add in the Revolution functionality, and perhaps even code in some graphical improvements.
If the game is really completed and they are holding it just to add some features I couldnt care less at all Ill kill a small animal, this seriously is pissing me off. To hell with the damn Rev, Nintendo promised us the ultimate Zelda game and now they are just going to shoehorn some rev functionality instead of making the game better? f!ck that.
Post by: WindyMan on December 22, 2005, 06:26:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
To hell with the damn Rev, Nintendo promised us the ultimate Zelda game and now they are just going to shoehorn some rev functionality instead of making the game better? f!ck that.
I don't think "shoehorn" is the right word to use. This is Nintendo we're talking about, they don't mess around when it comes to Zelda games.
The game is going to be the ultimate Zelda game for the GameCube, and a hell of a "launch" title for the Revolution. Probably.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on December 22, 2005, 06:48:58 PM
Another pt. in the article makes it seem like there will be a simultaneous worldwide launch. Microsoft attempted that this holiday season, and got burned by it because of shortages. At the same time, they burned everyone else, because they're all waiting to buy their 360s. So if they attempt this, they better do it right (e.g. no ridiculous shortages like the 360)
Post by: odifiend on December 22, 2005, 07:01:57 PM
I would have less of a problem though if Zelda could be released in say July with the forward functionality.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2005, 07:02:33 PM
It will probably help the Rev out a bit and I do agree with Windy in that that is important. Personally it's just a bummer. I also hope they're not relying on Twilight Princess to sell Revs. It is merely a BONUS and should be regarded as nothing more significant than that. They still need REAL Rev killer apps at launch, games that can only be played on the Rev.
I also hope that Twilight Princess has not been altered to fit the "non-gamer" demographic of the Rev. Or made simpler to accomodate the Rev controller design. It should be the deep "real gamer" game that it was always meant to be on the Cube. Nothing should be comprimised for the Rev.
One potential problem is that Nintendo might not demonstrate the controller well with this extra functionality. For some people this might be the first game they play with the Rev controller. If it's just a Cube game with a few nifty extras then it will make the controller look like a novelty item and that's not the first impression Nintendo should make. But if they make it use the Rev controller too much they'll screw up the Cube version. The Rev really is designed for original games. Ports are never going to do it justice. But this is a port. If the new controller is not very compatible with current game design Nintendo themselves will expose that.
Of course if the Rev controller really is a new standard and old games translate perfectly to it then this will be a good demonstration. My scepticism towards the whole controller in general prevents me from considering that a realistic possibility though.
The Rev in general is pretty much do or die anyway. Nintendo's plan is either pure genius or pure stupidity.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on December 22, 2005, 07:04:10 PM
Post by: Ending Walker Tropic on December 22, 2005, 07:06:55 PM
Post by: Nephilim on December 22, 2005, 07:27:22 PM
because you cant 100% finish it on cube, but I doubt most of these complainers got all the statues within 2months, so waiting a few months for a rev ISNT that bad
Post by: Mario on December 22, 2005, 07:28:08 PM
But then when they do that, people will be like "oh, the Revolution controller doesn't really add anything", so I think this is a lame decision regardless of how it's implemented.
Quote
because you cant 100% finish it on cube, but I doubt most of these complainers got all the statues within 2months, so waiting a few months for a rev ISNT that bad
It's not about that, personally I want as much time in between Twilight Princess and Revolutoin releases as possible as well, which means I want TP earlier. I was happy about the delay at first, look at the other game that got a major delay on Cube, Pikmin 2, that turned out incredible, I was hoping they were actually adding to the game with TP as well, but if it's just to input lame rev controls I don't care.
I want an official Nintendo statement on this... or an interview with one of the developers.
Post by: King of Twitch on December 22, 2005, 07:36:59 PM
Post by: Mario on December 22, 2005, 07:37:57 PM
Post by: BigJim on December 22, 2005, 07:44:27 PM
The story only states that they can "exclusively reveal" this information. Nintendo hasn't definitively revealed anything to anybody. This is all rumor. I'm not going to buy it until Nintendo or (ugh) IGN say something. Never heard of this mag... Have they ever even had a huge scoop before now?
I agree with Windy that the Rev's launch is more important than the Cube's end. Personally I think "Ah crap" about the delay, IF true. But has anybody else noticed how Nintendo's delays are almost always forgiven at large once we have the goods in our hands?
Hybrid games, in general, are a good idea while the platforms transition from one to the other. It can massively improve launch software sales, but it's somewhat lost since there aren't any other profound Cube titles coming out that we know of.
Post by: Gonmon on December 22, 2005, 08:01:18 PM
As for me, I'm taking this like I take all other rumours and speculations about TP: Not worth my time unless the big N steps up and says it personally.
After all, Reggie did say in a recent interview that the game would be launched in April, and Nintendo has COUNTLESS times stated that TP is going to be a Cube game and not a Revolution title. Oi.
Chill out guys. Just a rumour.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 22, 2005, 08:14:27 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on December 22, 2005, 08:22:00 PM
Post by: IceCold on December 22, 2005, 08:55:02 PM
Wow mantidor, you're really angry! I don't think I've ever seen you swear, so that's saying a lot. I wholeheartedly agree with you - this is bad on many levels. DontHate was absolutely right - I think the general concensus was that there should be a demo of the way the controller could be used in the game, and maybe a fishing minigame or something, but I don't like this at all.
First, we get a delay when the Cube is on its last legs and this is the only major game coming. Worst way to keep momentum for the Rev. Next, what IS added to the game won't even be able to played on the GameCube. And to top it off, the game wasn't even designed from the ground up for the Revolution - changing the game to suit it would be a crime, yet not changing it would constitute the gimmick chanting.
In fact, I wish that Nintendo had just not even announced Zelda for GameCube... build it up for the Revolution for the launch window, along with Mario and SSB and Metroid within the first 8 months to a year. Then at least it would have been a MUCH better indicator of the Rev's power and controls..
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 22, 2005, 09:52:32 PM
Post by: ShawnSt3r on December 23, 2005, 02:08:58 AM
Post by: Knoxxville on December 23, 2005, 02:52:51 AM
Post by: Artimus on December 23, 2005, 03:44:45 AM
Post by: mantidor on December 23, 2005, 04:10:02 AM
What really is making me mad pardon my french in previous posts
is the delay, if the part about releasing the game close to november was just a missprint I could be alot more calm about it.In general Im just dissapointed. The game will be awesome no doubt, but a tiny voice in my brain is going to repeat constantly to me while I play the game that it could be better if they didnt expend development time in mapping controller features instead of improving the game, or in other words, they painful wait was for nothing. Specially, because thats what they promised, the first delay was upseting, but they said that it was only for the better, to improve the game, Im ok with that, I was willing to wait more to get a better game. Id prefer a million times improvement in the puzzles of one particular dungeon that 3D motion sensing to swing a sword or to do some fishing since we are going to get that in the real Zelda revolution thats its going to be made anyway. At least from now on I wont believe Nintendo's statements and promises at all.
I say they are going to "shoehorn" controller features because Nintendo is one of the few companies that makes games with the interface as the most important part, and this game is a GC game, it was made based on the GC controller and with the GC interface in mind, anything added at last minute (months, whatever) can be nothing but shoehorned, the game simply is not designed for the Revmote. This is a 180 degree turn in Nintendo philosophy about making games, and its quite shocking.
This will help Revolution, but not by much, this wont make or break the console, and I personally think that Revolution dont need this kind of boost, the controller concept is amazing and I have all the confidence that it will sell based on that alone. For me adapting revmote features to TP is a complete waste, of both the game itself and the revolution controller. Ill rather have a perfect "old fashioned" Zelda game in TP and down the road a full Zelda game fleshed out completly from the amazing controller.
Post by: Shecky on December 23, 2005, 04:18:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TheYoungerPlumber
I think the delay was only partially for this reason. I suspect there were other things they wanted to fit in (second quest, polished story/subquests), so they announced the delay and said, "throw everything in!"
Ah yes, feature creep. I've regarded Nintendo as a company that would spare some time to finish an original plan, but not one to suffer from "feature creep." I would think them better than that for such a key title. There is no way they miss the holiday season for "polish."
Also, does no one see a problem with this if true?
You end up with a game that controls just fine with a GC controller and then you'll have the free-hand control accessible, potentially a while later, on the Revolution. To me this screams "not necessary" to the general public.
If the game did control remarkably better with the free-hand control then I'd feel cheated, b/c this was supposed to be a GC game and the controls and game mechanics should reflect that.
Elaborating on the later point... think of the game control. I'll even focus on the sword for a moment. When everyone thinks of the free hand control, I'm assuming they picture the sword movements on screen to at least partially reflect the movements of the controller (not following it exactly but capturing the general idea of horizontal slash, vertical cut, stab, diagonal... etc). Would it feel right if swinging the revolution controller simply did the same thing as pressing the A button repeatedly? What about game balance? If they do put in the advanced sword control, would it actually aid in game play? Does the precession help against the enemies, and if it does then the GC controls were hindered?
If this rumor has any truth, then my expectation is that it'll be used for "mini-games." In that regard you take:
1) A break from the normal action, so you can safely switch to a different control type
2) Don't affect the balance and play of the main game
3) Truly regarded as more of a bonus
In fact, I could see a few mini-games that wouldn't be available unless you were actually playing on the revolution. A shop in town that would be locked under the GC version. This is where their track record lies as well.
I see the revolution controller making for a unique Zelda title... so much that can be done: precision swings, single button+motion secondary weapons, etc.... It all needs to be factored into the actual game mechanics. That game should not be TP.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 23, 2005, 04:26:50 AM
Post by: ~*Adolph*~ on December 23, 2005, 05:28:20 AM
Don't you guys remember about the "Shell" controller for Revolution.
It has all the functions of a "normal controller" that way 3rd parties can use normal button layout and revolution stuff because the remote goes into it. IGN had a mockup not to long ago I don't feel like looking for it.
That shell more than likely will resemble PS2 or Xbox diamond shape face buttons not stupid cube shape, and my guess will have a second z button. My guess.
However the choice between playing zelda with somewhat crappy cube controller, vs. Revolution controler that has better button layout and motionsensor stuff I'll easily choose Revolution.
This could be a huge thing and I think a brillant move by NIntendo.
This way they will get sales for a GAMECUBE game but help market Revolution.
My friend was going to buy a GAMECUBE for ZELDA, than he heard Revolution will be backwards compatible
so he said he rather wait and get that because there is no reason to buy a dieing system.
Lots of people will pick up a Revolution and Zelda:Twilight Princess since it has extra features.
Honestly I don't see sword swinging as part of the gameplay with revolution, it could be but more likely it would so you can aim the bow and arrow better, so you can go fishing, and more than likely have an extra dungion that is only on revolution.
Honestly I think Nintendo is kicking themselves in the butt for showing Twilight Princess off.
This could of been a massive huge Surprise Revolution game with nifty graphics and function
and not even bother with gamecube.
Just imagine how all the PS3 and Xbox360 buzz would die down at E306 when out of nowhere they said Zelda coming to next gen. Look how happy people were in 04.
So instead of making it a Revolution game that would be delayed even more they decided to go the middle ground and make it playable on GAMECUBE and make it EXPERIENCABLE on Revolution.
Just imagine the Revolution tag line " Stop playing games, start Experiencing them."
And example is Twilight Princess you can play it on Cube but EXPERIENCE IT on Revolution.
Heck I wouldn't be surprise if Revolution came with a demo of Zelda:TP or even that collectors edition from a few years back.
This is great news for me. I'm selling my cube for Revolution so I don't care about cube.
I have DS so I won't be bored its not like I have been playing myc cube much at all.
o k i'm rambling now but you get my point. This is a great idea and it will help Nintendo out allot.
Post by: mantidor on December 23, 2005, 05:55:40 AM
NO U ARE NUTZ
, seriously the GC controller is far from being crappy, and dont even mention that the shell will resemble xbox or ps controllers, the mere though of that is making me puke."My friend was going to buy a GAMECUBE for ZELDA, than he heard Revolution will be backwards compatible
so he said he rather wait and get that because there is no reason to buy a dieing system."
And this was without any extra functionality, so why add it? I still think it wont make a huge impact in Rev sales at all. Delaying the game did cut the big amount of sales the game couldve have in this holiday season. After thinking carefully its obvious the game wasnt finished, Nintendo as we all know likes money, they would only miss a big season of sales if its absolutely necesary.
Just to add, Im more ok with this after letting all my rants out, but for the love of god dont delay it till november T_T I still think revs features are a waste, but Ill live with it (seems I have to anyway
).Post by: ssj4_android on December 23, 2005, 06:21:46 AM
Post by: WackerJr on December 23, 2005, 07:14:17 AM
To the person that asked if they'd ever had a scoop before: off the top of my head one of their most recent scoops was the announcement of Resident Evil for the DS, and that it was due to be a remake of the original Resident Evil with all new touch-screen control! A few weeks later... and they were right!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 23, 2005, 07:34:41 AM
It's not just the waiting, it's the money. Now I have to buy a whole new console and spend a couple hundred bucks. I'm currently feeling pretty iffy about the whole Rev in general so I can't say yet if I would have bought one anyway. If they have other killer launch games I want then it's more just the wait.
"Would it feel right if swinging the revolution controller simply did the same thing as pressing the A button repeatedly?"
This is my big criticism with the Rev controller in general. If motion control is merely assigning gestures to what would normally be button pushes then it's useless. All it is is the same thing only now with arm fatigue. It's incredibly important that motion controls feels like you're really doing something and not just "wave up for vertical splash, wave side-to-side for horizontal slash".
If Nintendo has a Super Mario 64 calibre game that totally sells the controller then any "shoehorned" features in Zelda aren't going to negatively affect anything. The only problem is if this is their big launch game or it's better than all the launch games. This is the company that launched the DS with nothing but a port (a move I still am completely shocked didn't totally kill the DS off from the get-go) so it's not entirely unlike them to do such a thing. In fact since it didn't screw the DS over Nintendo might think they can get away with a similiar strategy again. They can't because there's far too much competition and they're the last place console but that sort of thing has never stopped Nintendo from making insane decisions before.
The major killer app game for the Rev needs to be there anyway. If they don't launch with that they're screwed as the Rev is too different to catch on without a fantastic game to demonstrate it.
"In fact, I wish that Nintendo had just not even announced Zelda for GameCube"
I wish they released it in 2003. Wind Waker was great but making a cartoon Zelda was such a dumb move, particularly when they had already shown completely different footage that people had fallen in love with. You release awesome Zelda first to sell consoles and experimental arty Zelda second when the userbase is more established and you don't need a killer app anymore.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 23, 2005, 07:49:10 AM
You mean like how manual aim is pointless if you could just as well implement autoaim and have the player just push a button?
Post by: Shecky on December 23, 2005, 09:00:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Would it feel right if swinging the revolution controller simply did the same thing as pressing the A button repeatedly?"
This is my big criticism with the Rev controller in general. If motion control is merely assigning gestures to what would normally be button pushes then it's useless. All it is is the same thing only now with arm fatigue. It's incredibly important that motion controls feels like you're really doing something and not just "wave up for vertical splash, wave side-to-side for horizontal slash".
Well, what I was referring too was if no matter how you moved the wand... horizontal, vertical, etc... it would still do the same "X-strike" maneuver. Say, Link's horizontal slash, vertical cut, and thrusting jab were executed in order even if you action three "horizontal slashes" with the revolution controller.
Going "wave up for vertical splash, wave side-to-side for horizontal slash" would actually be a step away from that and where you start benefiting from the controller. Your motions have more of a direct bearing... and more importantly it makes more logical sense. You would need to do some refining and design though... (Link's left handed right? Majority of people aren't... do you make link left/right handed depending on player? etc...) This is where the entire game mechanics alter though.
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on December 23, 2005, 09:14:40 AM
Now, if you're complaining that this was a crappy reason to delay the game, then I'm a lot more sympathetic to your argument. I would rather be playing Zelda now than sitting here waiting until April, but I don't think adding Rev functionality is all they're doing. While there's a team working on that, there's probably a group of people tightening up other aspects.
I mean, we're Nintendo fans. They key word has always been paitience.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 23, 2005, 09:21:41 AM
I know the wait sucks, however, once you get the game in your hand you WILL NOT CARE. I garuntee you that you'll be just happy to play the damn game. It's kinda the same thing with dogs. Dogs don't bitch at there master for leaving for a long time, instead, they are happy because there master is back.
Once we get the game, we will be so happy that we can finally play the game that the past wait will become obsolete (sp?). I honestly believe that this game will be the ONLY game to score a 10/10 from every game critic out there. So who cares if there is a delay? If you don't like it being FC (a first by the way, in console gaming history....and what better game than Zelda?), then you probably don't like the fact that: A) you have to wait; B) you won't get a REV and thus won't get everything out of the game.
If we hadn't known Zelda was in development, "A" wouldn't exist; therefore, the point is irrelevant. We were given the priviledge to know that a new Zelda was being made.
Point "B" is irrelevant as well because you can play through the ENTIRE game only using the GC.
This is a very smart move by Nintendo, and everybody seems to forget that Nintendo is BUSINESS first. As much as we want to play the game now, it can't happen as long as Nintendo tries to maximize profits.
Mantidor: You say that releasing TP close or during the REV launch will not produce higher TP sales or REV sales. How can you say that with a straight face? Many people want to buy TP, but don't want to buy a GC. This way they cannot only play TP, but choose to play TP with REV controls, thus effectively advertising the REV as the true "next" gen console and the next Zelda.
Post by: mantidor on December 23, 2005, 10:56:54 AM
I know very well Ill like the game very much, but Miyamoto and everyone at Nintendo kept promising this was the best "traditional" Zelda game, the best and last of its kind, the ultimate fanservice, so I cant help but to see those extras as something thats taking away focus on their promise. We are getting a Zelda a Revolution anyway, the game doesnt need this to be succesful or to be superb, the Rev doesnt need this to be succesful at all. Its a waste of time and resources and I cannot see it otherwise.
All said and done, I cant wait, it just wont be the game I was expecting it to be, so forgive me if I cant stop ranting for a few more days.
Post by: Kairon on December 23, 2005, 11:05:48 AM
Oh, and I think that if the Rev launches close enough to TP, then it could very easily benefit from it. The Rev will certainly sell depending on its original games, but if it launches with an amazingly well-polished Zelda game, one that has tons of content, and one that's epic to boot, then that could be nothing but a big 'ol PLUS for Nintendo.
Besides, this could also back hype the Zelda launch, boosting the game's image to next-gen so it can compete markettingwise against whatever else is out there, AND it could ensure a hot image for Zelda due to it being connected to the Revolution as opposed to the now-dying then-dead Gamecube.
I don't see how this could be anything but a plus for Nintendo's marketting strategy. As a Nintendo Fan I'm perfectly content waiting for them to release a game when they want to release it (as long as it comes out, mind you... I'm looking at YOU Band Brothers!). And as someone with interest in the market I can't help but see this as a good move to give the Rev a launch game that the hardcore segment has no choice but to respect gameplaywise.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on December 23, 2005, 11:41:38 AM
Post by: BlkPaladin on December 23, 2005, 11:45:39 AM
Post by: Kairon on December 23, 2005, 12:46:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I have no doubt about that. When I say this is waste is more from my perspective than theirs, Nintendo doesnt make decisions that will affect them in a negative way financially. But the amount of money they are going to make wont be huge compared to, let say, if they released the game this holiday season. So the other option is going to give them a few bucks more, its logical of them to go in the more profitable route even if they pissed a couple of fanboys like me with another delay. At least I hope all this profitability will be used for the next toon shaded Zelda game for the Revolution which should be even bigger and more amazing than TP, something that of course will never happen
It isn't about the money Mantidor, it's about giving the Rev a good foot to start out on by relating it PR-wise into a very strong, very high-quality solid game that comes from a very popular and critically acclaimed franchise.
As a Gamecube gamer it is a slight disappointment only in that they might wait a bit longer for the game, and that they won't get the full benefit.
As a Nintendo gamer it doesn't make much difference, we're all used to waiting through multiple delays and for more than a year for games to come out, especially for Zelda.
But as a someone who might buy the Revolution, it's a huge plus: a legendary acclaimed franchise, high-quality game, epic scope, anticipated-by-hardcore-gamers game tied in close relation with the Revolution. If ever you needed to leverage a strong launch, a Zelda game in development for 2+ years would do the trick, especially seeing how it already looks nearly as good as some X360 games on any regular tv.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 23, 2005, 01:13:17 PM
I must say that Zelda is THE most beautiful game I have ever seen. Its not all graphics, per se, but the feeling you get from watching it is.....is akin to WindWaker. I mean, it is so fluid and so inviting. It feels like a living, breathing world.
When Link is fighting the Head Master Bore guy in the open field, the game looked incredible. I absolutely adored how the clouds's shadows glided across the plain.
Anyway, I don't know what the point of this post is. Maybe I'm trying to prove the Zelda can hold its own as a next-gen title....then again, maybe not.
Post by: stevey on December 23, 2005, 02:41:06 PM
"After all, Reggie did say in a recent interview that the game would be launched in April, and Nintendo has COUNTLESS times stated that TP is going to be a Cube game and not a Revolution title. Oi."
My two cents are, close dosen't mean days It could mean many months. I hope there talking about close as the rev comes out in the late summer (sept) and zelda came in ealry june for the uk and in the us/Japan zelda will come in six week earlyer that is April 16 and rev mid July. But if I'm worng and it's in the nov and it just for the rev line up, than screw the rev nintendo! I'm all hype about an April release date but I can't be for a nov06 date (even I have my limits), I just can wait that long. Screw rev stuff for Tp, save it for the up coming rev zelda that in the works. NINTENDO MAKE A PERFECT CUBE GAME NOT REV GAME! do you hear that nintendo! PLEASE! I'm still going to count down to april 16 no mater what
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 23, 2005, 07:45:50 PM
Face it: nobody wants to have to buy a GameCube to play Zelda, not this late in the game. Making it compatible with the Revolution controller is a great move because people can still buy the new system and play what will be the GameCube's best game on it, with the updated controls if they so choose. I don't see anything negative in that.
Post by: Ending Walker Tropic on December 23, 2005, 08:40:15 PM
Post by: Dasmos on December 23, 2005, 09:19:39 PM
QuoteAre you bonkers? Lightgun functionality would not work!
Originally posted by: Ending Walker Tropic
You know they should put in dance mat and bongo support too. Also microphone, lightgun and gba link.
Post by: Kairon on December 23, 2005, 10:30:25 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on December 24, 2005, 04:02:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I have no doubt about that. When I say this is waste is more from my perspective than theirs, Nintendo doesnt make decisions that will affect them in a negative way financially. But the amount of money they are going to make wont be huge compared to, let say, if they released the game this holiday season. So the other option is going to give them a few bucks more, its logical of them to go in the more profitable route even if they pissed a couple of fanboys like me with another delay. At least I hope all this profitability will be used for the next toon shaded Zelda game for the Revolution which should be even bigger and more amazing than TP, something that of course will never happen
It isn't about the money Mantidor, it's about giving the Rev a good foot to start out on by relating it PR-wise into a very strong, very high-quality solid game that comes from a very popular and critically acclaimed franchise.
As a Gamecube gamer it is a slight disappointment only in that they might wait a bit longer for the game, and that they won't get the full benefit.
As a Nintendo gamer it doesn't make much difference, we're all used to waiting through multiple delays and for more than a year for games to come out, especially for Zelda.
But as a someone who might buy the Revolution, it's a huge plus: a legendary acclaimed franchise, high-quality game, epic scope, anticipated-by-hardcore-gamers game tied in close relation with the Revolution. If ever you needed to leverage a strong launch, a Zelda game in development for 2+ years would do the trick, especially seeing how it already looks nearly as good as some X360 games on any regular tv.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Then they shouldve just make the game for Revolution from start and save all their lies from us. This isnt a huge plus, because as amazing as the game will be, it will still be seen as old generation, as I said, this will hardly make or break the console, if Revolution really needs TP to be succesful then the console itself is doomed.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 24, 2005, 06:51:45 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on December 24, 2005, 07:59:51 AM
Manual aim isn't pointless. The aim directly relates to how you move the remote, like a mouse. It's analog aiming. I mean assigning digital commands to gestures. Imagine if the game just let you aim in four places (left, up, down, right) and you could pick where it aimed by making gestures with the remote. There really would be no point because you don't actually have real motion control. Your gesture is then no different than a button push only it's less accurate (you could have meant to gesture "aim left' but the game interpreted it as "aim up") and causes fatigue.
"I mean, aside from Zelda, the general public doesn't give a crap about GameCube, so whether it comes out tomorrow or a year from tomorrow it doesn't really matter. Sure, the delay annoys die-hard fans, but despite their bitching they'll still be first in line to buy it."
I think there's some importance in pleasing your fans. Despite what people think Nintendo fans don't just blindly accept everything Nintendo does. Nintendo's market share shrinks every generation. With every console Nintendo's annoying bullsh!t drives more fans away. My patience is pretty much spent. I'm not likely going to buy a Rev at launch and I plan on waiting to see if Nintendo actually improves for once or if it's the usual underachievement. Transitioning smoothly from one console to another is very important. Nintendo lost a ton of fans to the PS2 last gen because for months there were no games released on any Nintendo console and people sitting on the fence said "f*ck it" and bought a console that was available in stores. How can anyone have faith in a Nintendo console if all of them die out before the next one is released.
The Rev SHOULDN'T need this as a killer app. If Nintendo doesn't have a REAL killer app cooking for launch then the Rev is screwed anyway. Plus it's not like anyone has to buy a Cube for Zelda. The Rev has always been backwards compatible. So why not keep the existing fans happy instead of jerking around a fanbase whose patience is running pretty damn thin to begin with. I'm really sick of waiting all the damn time and I know I'm not the only one.
Post by: Kairon on December 24, 2005, 08:49:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Then they shouldve just make the game for Revolution from start and save all their lies from us. This isnt a huge plus, because as amazing as the game will be, it will still be seen as old generation, as I said, this will hardly make or break the console, if Revolution really needs TP to be succesful then the console itself is doomed.
That's a very easy thing to say while you sit on the sidelines. Nintendo would've needed 3 years of perfect foresight to do what you accuse them of doing. And especially how they were'nt dead set on the controller's exact functions until late summer 2005, it's patently impossible.
Besides, I disagree completely with Zelda being seen as a last gen game on the Rev. Heck, IGN couldn't tell the difference between X360 graphics and current gen graphics on a standard tv. With Zelda: TP already looking more "beautiful" than most other games out there, if it becomes attached to the Revolution than it will be quite easy for it to be associated upwards. And especially given the strength of the franchise, I think that it'll do perfectly fine among both hardcore gamers and casual gamers, and even maybe non gamers regardless. (Of course, this is all assuming that Zelda: TP and the Rev launch close enough to each other, a month or two, to benefit from the other's association)
As to the Rev needing Zelda:TP to succeed, I fail to see the logic in this line of thought. How can you possibly say that Nintendo wanting to put as much muscle as possible in the Revolution launch is a bad thing? Regardless of whether or not the Rev has SSBMR or Mario128 or Mario Paint or Metroid Prime 3 at launch, Zelda:TP can be nothing but a plus for the Rev's launch line-up, nothing but a plus for developers trying to adapt traditional games to it, nothing but a plus for gamers who realize that the world doesn't end in 6 months, and nothing but a plus for a console that will be a do-or-die thing for Nintendo.
I mean, seriously, is this just disappointment that we may have to wait longer for Zelda? Nintendo has ALWAYS delayed their games for whatever reasons they saw fit, and for any Nintendo fan to draw the line in the sand at this point is ridiculous. I mean, I felt impatient back in the N64 days when fanboyism was fanboyism. But now, I've grown up enough to realize that my loyalty is earned NOT because I'm a fan being serviced, but because I'm a customer who can think for himself and STILL appreciates what Nintendo is trying to do. I just feel confident that Nintendo will do what they need to do to make their vision of gaming come true, and myself as a Nintendo gamer will have nothing to do but reap the benefit.
Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on December 24, 2005, 09:17:57 AM
Is Nintendo using Zelda as a template for Action-Adventure games for next-gen? Assuming that Mario, Metriod, and the Camelot RPG (announced well over two years ago) launch with the REV, that's four huge titles in four different genres. And assuming that all four of those games are nothing less than spectacular, couldn't they "show the way" to third-parties trying to do the same thing?
Maybe Nintendo thought it would be too late to show how an Action-Adventure game should truely work on the REV, assuming Zelda REV comes out a couple years after the REV launches. Maybe that's why they added this specific functionalty and are launching so close to the REV.
We've said it before. Nintendo needs to get the ball rolling right out of the gate. It needs to show us how games are revolutionary in many different genres. Zelda can now claim the adventure genre, with the rest following suit.
The more I think about it, the more this move is pure genius!
Post by: mantidor on December 24, 2005, 12:44:51 PM
Thats one of the points that makes me doubt how good these new features will be, its last minute thing, the game wasnt made with 3D motion sensing in mind. Zelda is a big standard and in general Nintendo games are so good that we forget about the interface, but is the most important part of the games, is its core, if it wasnt for the GC controller, Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, Pikmin or The Wind Waker would be completly different games with completly different gameplay mechanics. Thats the reason I think this isnt going to yield the best results. I mean Im sure it will be interesting, a flashy thing to show, but thats just a "g!mmick". This word has such a negative connotation that we even censor it here, but I dont think it necesarly means its a bad thing, my problem with the issue is that its a g!mmick I dont want and I think wont add anything at all to the game, for all intends and purposes mini games in Zelda are g!mmicks, but they are awesome, if they delay the game to add a hundred more minigames I wouldnt be as upset as I am now.
"Besides, I disagree completely with Zelda being seen as a last gen game on the Rev. Heck, IGN couldn't tell the difference between X360 graphics and current gen graphics on a standard tv. With Zelda: TP already looking more "beautiful" than most other games out there, if it becomes attached to the Revolution than it will be quite easy for it to be associated upwards. And especially given the strength of the franchise, I think that it'll do perfectly fine among both hardcore gamers and casual gamers, and even maybe non gamers regardless. (Of course, this is all assuming that Zelda: TP and the Rev launch close enough to each other, a month or two, to benefit from the other's association)"
Sometimes I forget that people in general still see next gen as better graphics, so it was hasty of me to say that people would see the game as old generation. Thats because for me next gen isnt about graphics, its about 3D motion sensing! I personally will see the game as last gen, and you know, if Nintendo delivers, Im sure everyone else will share my thoughts.
"As to the Rev needing Zelda:TP to succeed, I fail to see the logic in this line of thought. How can you possibly say that Nintendo wanting to put as much muscle as possible in the Revolution launch is a bad thing? Regardless of whether or not the Rev has SSBMR or Mario128 or Mario Paint or Metroid Prime 3 at launch, Zelda:TP can be nothing but a plus for the Rev's launch line-up, nothing but a plus for developers trying to adapt traditional games to it, nothing but a plus for gamers who realize that the world doesn't end in 6 months, and nothing but a plus for a console that will be a do-or-die thing for Nintendo."
Ive never said is a bad thing for Nintendo, is bad thing for me, because Im going to have to wait for added features I dont want. And besides as Ive said many times the Revolution doesnt need this, the controller is amazing and this is a waste of its functions. Like adding analog stick functionalty to a Link to the Past or Super Mario World.
"I mean, seriously, is this just disappointment that we may have to wait longer for Zelda? Nintendo has ALWAYS delayed their games for whatever reasons they saw fit, and for any Nintendo fan to draw the line in the sand at this point is ridiculous. I mean, I felt impatient back in the N64 days when fanboyism was fanboyism. But now, I've grown up enough to realize that my loyalty is earned NOT because I'm a fan being serviced, but because I'm a customer who can think for himself and STILL appreciates what Nintendo is trying to do. I just feel confident that Nintendo will do what they need to do to make their vision of gaming come true, and myself as a Nintendo gamer will have nothing to do but reap the benefit."
Again, if they delayed the game to add more content in the "traditional" sense, I wouldnt mind, but they are delaying it for features I dont want! citing my example above, what if they'd delayed a Link to the Past to add analog stick functionality? it wouldve suck! we were getting Ocarina of Time anyway.
Of course, all my rants are more like speculation on my part, maybe porting Rev features is indeed a fast process (I personally wont believe a word Iwata, Films Aim, Kaplan or Miyamoto ever say again, so I dont care if Iwata said in an interview it was fast when they did MP2, I simply wont blindly believe in that anymore), maybe the delay is really to make the game bigger. Ill just have to wait anyway, I have no other choice, and I still Im pretty pissed off if the delay turns out to be true.
Post by: Kairon on December 24, 2005, 01:19:13 PM
Well, one application I can see for the revmote is early on in the game demos. Remember that charging goat that link has to dodge while he's still working at the ranch? The rev mote would be an amazingly natural match for that particular gameplay mechanic.
As for anything else, lol, I haven't experienced enough real Zelda: TP to even speculate. Wait...I can speculate... I shouldn't but I can't resist! The revmote would be great for specifying which side Link swings his sword at while mounted. It'd be a simple push of a button to swing the sword, but whether link swings at the enemy on his left or on the right depends on how you've titled your rev controller...
AGH! Baseless speculation! SAVE Meeeeeeeeeeeee.....eeee....ee...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Shecky on December 24, 2005, 04:32:04 PM
Blinders off please!
We will not get two games for the price of one. We will not see all these cool applications with the freehand controller to the main game play for a game that needs to function properly on the GC. The amount of work and changes to the game mechanics would essentially make playing TP on the GC one game and playing it on the REV completely different.
All of the cool applications will be in a different game with the mechanics to support it.
(How about this... for every cool feature that you all think of -- _including_ the resulting changes in game play in terms of player control, enemy behavior alteration, AI, and environment -- tell me how it would be done effectively and to the same efficency with a GC controller. )
Post by: odifiend on December 24, 2005, 06:20:38 PM
It would be cool though if this was the first first party game that was multiple discs.
Post by: IceCold on December 24, 2005, 06:53:54 PM
QuoteNot happening... Nintendo is extremely proud and won't admit that it was wrong to go with a smaller medium, and that two discs are needed for a game. Same as why all their games on the Rev WILL use the NRC...
It would be cool though if this was the first first party game that was multiple discs.
Besides, Nintendo are the masters of squeezing games into meda.
Post by: odifiend on December 24, 2005, 07:19:27 PM
I don't really care as long as no compromises to the game are made due to the inclusion of the Rev features... if this rumor is true (but nobody at PGC seems to be denying or even admiting as a rumor : O).
Post by: mantidor on December 24, 2005, 08:16:28 PM
edit: oh god, I shouldve add, merry christmas to you all!
I cant believe Im actually posting tonight
Post by: Requiem on December 24, 2005, 08:38:09 PM
Problem Solved.
Truth to who ever said this news seems a little far-fetched. I always thought changing the controls was superficial, and never considered what it might do to the game's core. If the game has to be modified internally in order to use the REV, e.g. re-coding AI and such, then I can see reasons to skip an idea such as this one.
However, I also gave some thought to what Nintendo's motive could be. There are many good aspects for doing such a thing....I won't get into them, but let's say that I could provide a nice rebuttal to any good argument. If in fact TP's revisions do take alot of time to finish, they have plenty of time to finish and polish it.
Post by: odifiend on December 24, 2005, 09:56:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I dont want a multiple disk Zelda, it would imply linearity, and that would suck.
edit: oh god, I shouldve add, merry christmas to you all!
Tales of Symphonia had 2 discs and I want to say every place that was accessible on disc 1 was accessible on disc 2. I'm no expert on splitting games onto multiple discs but I've seen a couple of examples where being multidisc didn't restrict the game's freedom.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 24, 2005, 11:18:29 PM
I wouldn't be worried about the Rev's userbase being smaller than the GC's, it has garnered a LOT of attention from the mainstream and hardcore. Look at the Cube. What reason did that thing have to exist next to two other consoles just like it? The Cube lacked defining features. The PS2 had PS1 compatibility and the most momentum with publishers, the XBox brought a new concept to online gaming. The Cube had neither. It had connectivity (which was too expensive for most people to use and lacked games) and the Gameboy Player (if you want a Gameboy Advance you can buy one of those and use it anywhere), hardly reasons to buy a console over.
Next gen changes the tables. The game catalog differences might reduce (at least MS will initially be able to match Sony's), online isn't new anymore and all three offer it, the only console with defining features is the Rev now. It has the new controller. The Rev hardware has a reason to exist while the x360 and PS3 are almost completely interchangeable.
Zelda TP won't take up two discs, the GC can't hold a lot in RAM so there won't be a lot of space taken up by game contents and since Nintendo doesn't use any linearly streaming stuff (music except for MIDI, voice, videos) there won't be that much material. I've heard claims that Wind Waker was roughly 300MB in size. I've also heard that all of FF7's discs included all of the game content except for the videos.
Post by: odifiend on December 25, 2005, 07:44:49 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on December 25, 2005, 08:23:08 AM
There are no 256MB cartridges for the N64. Perhaps you mean Mb, which is one eigth as much as an MB.
Post by: odifiend on December 25, 2005, 02:59:00 PM
From the preview videos I've seen, this Zelda does seem to be more heavy in videos for things that establish the atmosphere (taunting monkeys, boar boss riding away and boulder moving).
Post by: mantidor on December 25, 2005, 05:17:26 PM
Post by: IceCold on December 25, 2005, 05:22:50 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 25, 2005, 06:41:50 PM
Post by: mantidor on December 26, 2005, 03:50:32 AM
Post by: mantidor on December 26, 2005, 12:19:28 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 26, 2005, 01:11:37 PM
~~~~~
The final battle only had 3 characters to show and hardly any background to render. The ending, had a sizable variety of characters... but I think they stuck in the video cuz EAD was trying to meet deadlines, and didn't want to spend time optimizing framerates while perfecting animations. And it pisses me off, cuz I love my endings/credits that show you the game's cast and locales, like Mario64 did, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask. I wasn't pleased to see Mario Sunshine's credits.
Post by: ThePerm on December 26, 2005, 02:23:06 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 26, 2005, 02:46:48 PM
Post by: mantidor on December 26, 2005, 03:48:53 PM
And now that you mentioned it the credits were indeed better before, Ill never forget Super Mario 3 / Super Mario World credits.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 26, 2005, 03:52:24 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 26, 2005, 04:39:13 PM
Post by: Nephilim on December 26, 2005, 09:29:02 PM
midi has been subpar for 10years
Heck if nintendo used mp4 aac+, they could have 100mins (easly done since most tracks are like 6mins and looped) of cd quality music and only be like 50megs
Post by: Ending Walker Tropic on December 26, 2005, 10:06:50 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 27, 2005, 12:28:58 AM
Post by: Nephilim on December 27, 2005, 01:33:08 AM
Post by: Nephilim on December 27, 2005, 01:41:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ending Walker Tropic
yes but do Nintendo have Apple's exclusive codecs to use aac? No.
Naw you can licence the codec for commercial uses
http://www.codingtechnologies.com/products/aacPlus.htm
Ogg is good but still is 3/4 the size of a mp3
Post by: Tansunn on December 27, 2005, 02:44:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
For being MIDI it sounds great. I hear dragon's roost island and the staff credits song everyday and its easily on par with some soundtracks that use real instruments.
I think those did use some real instruments. The title theme/staff roll in particular actually sampled the mandolin, and according to my searches on Google, the mandolin belongs to, and may or may not have been played by, Miyamoto himself. Not sure about the Dragon's Roost theme, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was sampled too, since they obviously have the capabilities to do so.
Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
midi has been subpar for 10years
Chrono Cross for PSX was almost entirely MIDI and Xenosaga ep. 1 had some tracks that were MIDI. The former sounded excellent, and the latter was almost indistinguishable from a real orchestra when it used MIDI instead of streaming audio. What do you mean by "subpar"?
Post by: KDR_11k on December 30, 2005, 11:26:12 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 31, 2005, 08:48:32 PM
in some weird way this makes the surprise launch more believable
Post by: Kairon on January 08, 2006, 09:49:48 AM
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62348
Ah! But what's this? Nintendo gives National Geographic Kids Magazine a possible scoop on videogame mags?
According to NGKM, Donkey Konga, Smash Bros., and Zelda are all playable with the Rev controller, and they know this because Nintendo of Japan invited them over! Now, do they mean new games, or simply the old SSBM, Donkey Konga and TWILIGHT PRINCESS???
http://joystiq.com/2006/01/07/magazine-reveals-revolution-details-zelda-super-smash-bros-d/
So...we're still confused. NGC was speculation, but Nintendo didn't deny the rumor. They keep denying the TP-ported-to-Rev rumours, but they don't want to outright deny the TP-playable-with-revmote rumours?
And then they invite a non-gaming magazine to Japan to go hands-on and to write this?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 08, 2006, 12:56:21 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 10, 2006, 12:27:13 PM
LOL. I give up, whatever happens, happens, and I'll just have to trust in Miyamoto that it's for the better! lol.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on January 10, 2006, 01:43:55 PM
Sorry Pro
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 10, 2006, 03:09:43 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 10, 2006, 09:10:25 PM
The latest is that NGC, the original source of this story, has gone on record that their story was NOT speculation and have accused Nintendo of trying to cover their tracks.
Will the madness never end?!?!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on January 10, 2006, 09:25:22 PM
