Post by: Kairon on December 22, 2005, 07:11:06 AM
Mag sez: Twilight Princess launched Near Rev Date, makes use of Rev controller!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on December 22, 2005, 07:25:29 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on December 22, 2005, 07:50:26 AM
Post by: ThePerm on December 22, 2005, 07:56:50 AM
Post by: thame^ on December 22, 2005, 08:11:55 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 22, 2005, 08:27:24 AM
There was a crazy debate about this earlier and I think we all decided that a demo level or two should be included to show the features of the REV, but they should be unrelated to the actual game (e.g., sword-fight with a soldier, fishing mini-game).
If what that sight says is true, then the controller can be used throughout the game.
I must say that I am very excited at the prospect of playing Zelda with REV controls. I was going to play the game at least twice anyway, but now I have a great reason to do so. Playing my first time through with regular Zelda-esque controls, then playing the second time with REV controls. It's a win, win situation.
One more thing: Does anybody remember the part in the E3 trailer where Link rams his shield into the head of a Stalfos? What if, secretly, that move was done by the REVmote? I know its far fetched, but I can't help think its possible. Many people have came up with different control methods for Zelda REV and every single one allows for Link to directly control his shield. So thrusting your shield forward is definitely an option.
Anyway, I think I'm reading into this stuff way too much.
Post by: JonLeung on December 22, 2005, 08:56:13 AM
Twilight Princess could easily be yet another Zelda game that I might play more than once, and Revolution bonuses would make that easier to want to revisit. Playing it on the Revolution could unlock stuff that can't normally be accessed on the GameCube, but I'm hoping it'll be good stuff.
I don't like the example often cited about using the Revolution controller like a sword to slash stuff. Zelda isn't exactly a hack-and-slash. There has to be more to it. Can it really emulate the feeling of holding the Zelda items? Some things might work, like the hookshot, but I'm not about to throw my controller at the screen thinking it's a bomb or boomerang.
I'm sure that's a more extreme example of really getting into it...but if it's to make use of the Revolution controller, it should somehow be comfortably able to do all tools or nothing. I'm not interested in waving the controller like a sword and then having to select other items just to press a button to use them, which would happen often in Zelda games. It would be jarringly awkward. But maybe I'm underestimating their ability to come up with something that works better than I'm apparently imagining.
Having something like fighting particular bosses or certain mini-games might work. My dad loves the fishing in Ocarina Of Time. He's not a gamer, he just likes to fish. The Revolution controller would make that feel even better. But to play large chunks of a typical Zelda-style game? I dunno...
Post by: Kairon on December 22, 2005, 08:59:49 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: JonLeung on December 22, 2005, 09:08:14 AM
Other "blemishes" on my record include never finishing the DX version of Link's Awakening or the Game & Watch Zelda. Yeah, I actually own the Game & Watch Zelda game, and it's in good condition - but man is it hard! At least the last time I played it.
Sorry to go off topic there.
What else is Nintendo working on? I can understand that they could experiment with Zelda when working on Revolution functions. One of the demos was a take on Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, for example. And my guess as to why the recently-discovered fully-functional Arwing hidden in Ocarina Of Time is probably because Star Fox 64 was what Nintendo worked on previous to Ocarina Of Time and so they put it in to test targetting functions and then never bothered to remove it.
So even if there is nothing according to official sources and normal play, there may be something still there hidden in the code. Unofficially, maybe someone one day will dig up something in Twilight Princess suited to the Revolution.
(I doubt code-diggers would find anything like Hot Coffee, though... >_>)
Post by: ThePerm on December 22, 2005, 09:10:43 AM
Post by: Kairon on December 22, 2005, 09:19:14 AM
The magazine purports that Zelda:TP and the Rev will launch relatively close to each other. So this means either a Zelda: TP delay into Nov 2006 or a Rev Launch of Spring/Summer 2006.
ARGH, PURE SPECULATION!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 22, 2005, 09:21:31 AM
Either way, I have both of them.
EDIT:
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z0008nu.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z09gn.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z15ub.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z27au.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z34yy.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z40qu.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z50nn.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z60mb.jpg
Well....I've never seen many of those screens that they have in their article. I was reluctant to believe it was true, but it really seems so. They have the exclusive, and any time now the news will be cropping up through more reputable sites.
Post by: stevey on December 22, 2005, 11:01:37 AM
Twilight Princess will come out around the same time as the Revolution (according to NGC around November 2006) and that it will be playable with the Revolution controller.
*I need to smash something!*Edit:"This is so full of bull. Reggie confirmed that Zelda will be released on April in the US."
I going to trust him, why whould reggie lie to us.
Post by: hudsonhawk on December 22, 2005, 11:28:46 AM
Quote
Edit:"This is so full of bull. Reggie confirmed that Zelda will be released on April in the US."
I going to trust him, why whould reggie lie to us.
This is a UK magazine. Maybe they're both right and Rev will launch Q2 2006 in the US and Q4 2006 in the UK / Europe.
After the 360's launch, I'd be surprised if anyone ever tries to launch a console in all regions simultaneously. It was a pretty effective cautionary tale.
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 22, 2005, 11:50:57 AM
If Zelda is pushed back to Late April, and then Revolution Launched Late 2nd Quarter/Early 3rd Quarter in Japan/America then the European launch could be in November.
I really doubt this news story though. It is written in unclear language. It isn't saying This is HOW you will play the game with the Revolution, but this is POSSIBLY how you would control it. For a magizine to write the article as such it is obvious filled with speculation. Why would Nintendo give this magizine such a huge exclusive then not fill in the blanks?
I think they are speculating and writing a story as fact from that speculation. Though to play devil's adevocote that's a huge story to write on speculation and the layout and images seem to be fresh.
It is a mystery.
Post by: mantidor on December 22, 2005, 11:57:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
Well....I've never seen many of those screens that they have in their article. I was reluctant to believe it was true, but it really seems so. They have the exclusive, and any time now the news will be cropping up through more reputable sites.
All those screens are from the E3 demo and trailers as far as I know. They shouldve gotten at least a new one. Here Im still hoping this is all bogus, I cant wait that long for the game, specially for features that I dont want or need for this game.
Post by: Kairon on December 22, 2005, 12:02:43 PM
That's the only thing they actually claim to be true, and the spread is just good 'ol speculation as to how it would materialize. For all we care, the info could have been a two-line blurb at the bottom of a "breaking news" section.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: BigJim on December 22, 2005, 01:36:29 PM
In any case, there won't be an early Rev launch.
Post by: Shecky on December 22, 2005, 01:46:37 PM
Quote
the reason Shigeru Miyamoto and Aonuma wanted to pospone the release date of the game to next year, was to implent some exclusive features that can be controlled using the Revolution controller, the already famous 'remote' controller.
Right.... perfect reason to miss the holiday season and a ton of sales... so they can tweak controls for a system that was not going to be out for a whole year.
Yeah that makes a ton of financial sense.
Maybe, you know, they just didn't get it finished...
I mean what do people expect a PR department to say....
"Sorry guys we couldn't finish in time to meet a November release... next best time to put this out on market would probably be after March"
or
"Hey, we decided to delay the game so we can add polish and give it the special touch! Get ready for a real treat after March! Yeah!"
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 22, 2005, 01:49:55 PM
=D
Post by: Mario on December 22, 2005, 02:18:37 PM
Post by: IceCold on December 22, 2005, 02:27:23 PM
First I read this on the thread in the GameCube section and replied, then I read it in the official Zelda thread, then HERE!!
Post by: attackslug on December 22, 2005, 02:50:56 PM
Personally, I would expect to see TP take some advantage of the Rev's upped horsepower. I wouldn't expect higher res textures or anything, but a solid 60 fps framerate would be very nice. A better lighting or shadowing model would be cool as well, but would probably yield a minimal improvement in appearance at the cost of retooling the engine.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on December 22, 2005, 03:20:00 PM
Post by: IceCold on December 22, 2005, 03:30:42 PM
QuoteWell, well, someone doesn't know the essence of a Zelda game..
The freehand controller will be used to allow you to attack with Link's sword, and it'll be absolutely perfect for this. Lock on, approach an enemy and swing like your life depends on it
Post by: animecyberrat on December 22, 2005, 03:56:35 PM
I am realy hoping and praying for REv to launch before PS3 and really hoping that may is teh date they chose, I mean why not. They could release game footage and stuff at thie rown special event and save E3 for something else like upcoming REv games and stuff and launch the system sooner than expected to blow peopel away, as long as it doesnt backfire like with Saturn.
Post by: IceCold on December 22, 2005, 03:59:32 PM
Mario: Didn't you say that you wouldn't buy any more Nintendo products if there were Rev-exclusive features for TP?
Post by: Mario on December 22, 2005, 04:19:49 PM
Post by: Shecky on December 22, 2005, 05:05:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Oh come on...
First I read this on the thread in the GameCube section and replied, then I read it in the official Zelda thread, then HERE!!
And now a talkback thread....
Post by: mantidor on December 22, 2005, 06:01:57 PM
Post by: Kairon on December 22, 2005, 07:36:12 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Knoxxville on December 23, 2005, 03:01:23 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 23, 2005, 04:29:22 AM
KIRBY KIRBY KIRBY
Post by: Zach on December 23, 2005, 10:09:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: animecyberrat
well this combined with other recent news makes me wonder if Rev would be coming out in late psring or early summer instead of fall. Seriously if its so close to GC development, as Nintendo already confirms, and if early dev kits are out there, it wouldnt take long to get some kind of games ready in the next few months considering all the unfinished GC games lying around.
I am realy hoping and praying for REv to launch before PS3 and really hoping that may is teh date they chose, I mean why not. They could release game footage and stuff at thie rown special event and save E3 for something else like upcoming REv games and stuff and launch the system sooner than expected to blow peopel away, as long as it doesnt backfire like with Saturn.
I'm wondering about this possiblity too, and hoping its true. Think about it, this UK magazine just heard that TP was gonna release with the rev, and since rumor has it that the rev wont be coming out until late in the year, they just assumed that TP would be delayed, but what if they are releasing the rev this summer instead. Consider the options for a minute, if this is true Nintendo would either have to really p*ss off a lot of people by delaying TP AGAIN, or they could blow everyone away by releasing the rev early.
Now as for a may release and having their own event separate from E3, I dont like that idea because E3 is so huge, and all of the gamers from all kinds of systems will be there. If Nintendo had their own special event for the rev release, it would get a much smaller audience, and only hardcore nintendo fans would show up (people who are already on board for the rev anyway). At E3 Nintendo can reach a whole lot of people, and maybe convince some 360 and PS3 fans to buy a rev. Nintendo really needs to stir up some chatter at E3, and the best way to do that is to make a really big show by releasing all the info on the rev.
Edit: This is probably just wishful thinking, but I will keep my fingers crossed anyway.
Post by: Khushrenada on December 23, 2005, 12:24:58 PM
If Nintendo does make TP Rev compatible, then they are really betting that their contorller will be the new standard. The reason is that TP is going to have comparisons made about it between the way it would be controlled on the Gamecube and the way it would be controlled on the Revolution. This will be something similar to the comparisons made on Mario 64 and the way it was controlled on the 64 versus the DS. In that case, many people thought the DS should have had an analog stick and the DS suffered from that comparison abit.
But if the same thing happens with TP and people prefer the Gamecube controls over the Revolution controls, that is going to hurt Nintendo's stance that the Revolution controller is the new standard. It would probably strengthen the idea that the controller is just a sparkling innovation.
Now, what if the Revolution controls are better? Nintendo gets good exposure by people comparing the two types of control and proving that the Revolution is the best way to play games. People who played it on the Gamecube get to play the game with another sense of discovery. But does adding Revolution functionality benefit Nintendo in any other way? Besides people buying it for the Revolution if they didn't for the Gamecube.
To me, Nintendo has more to lose than gain by doing this, although I could be missing something.
Post by: Kairon on December 23, 2005, 12:49:12 PM
I'm of the opinion that if Miyamoto saw fit to delay Zelda:TP to add things that he thought were worth the delay, then I'm going to go ahead and trust him.
Oh, and I think that if the Rev launches close enough to TP, then it could very easily benefit from it. The Rev will certainly sell depending on its original games, but if it launches with an amazingly well-polished Zelda game, one that has tons of content, and one that's epic to boot, then that could be nothing but a big 'ol PLUS for Nintendo.
Besides, this could also back hype the Zelda launch, boosting the game's image to next-gen so it can compete markettingwise against whatever else is out there, AND it could ensure a hot image for Zelda due to it being connected to the Revolution as opposed to the now-dying then-dead Gamecube.
I don't see how this could be anything but a plus for Nintendo's marketting strategy. As a Nintendo Fan I'm perfectly content waiting for them to release a game when they want to release it (as long as it comes out, mind you... I'm looking at YOU Band Brothers!). And as someone with interest in the market I can't help but see this as a good move to give the Rev a launch game that the hardcore segment has no choice but to respect gameplaywise.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on December 24, 2005, 04:40:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Khushrenada
But if the same thing happens with TP and people prefer the Gamecube controls over the Revolution controls, that is going to hurt Nintendo's stance that the Revolution controller is the new standard. It would probably strengthen the idea that the controller is just a sparkling innovation.
This is a very interesting point. I see the comparison being unfair, because this game was built with the GC interface in mind, its easily expected that it will be better for the GC controller than the remote. This is a likely problem to happen, people would indeed think of the remote as a gimm!ck because the game isnt made to fully show all what the controller is capable of. This should not be Nintendo's game that shows controller capabilities, that game should be the next Mario/New IP thats being developed.
Thats why I wouldve prefered they had saved their ideas for the upcoming Zelda revolution instead of wasting them in TP.
and you didnt sound like Ian at all , are we talking about the same Ian?
Post by: KDR_11k on December 24, 2005, 06:50:02 AM
Doesn't have to be. Doom and Quake have been designed for use with the keyboard yet they play even better with the mouse. Perhaps the rod will actually make you more powerful if you use it properly. Sure, that makes the game easier for owners of better hardware but since there is no direct competition I don't think that'd be unfair. And it's not like anyone's been asking for an easier Zelda after Wind Waker...
Post by: Ian Sane on December 24, 2005, 07:37:34 AM
I posted my thoughts in the talkback thread. Though I didn't quite make that point. I agree completely. Nintendo could be hurt by the Cube to Rev comparison.
"I see the comparison being unfair, because this game was built with the GC interface in mind, its easily expected that it will be better for the GC controller than the remote."
It's also unfair for Nintendo to be viewed as childish or for the Cube to be viewed as having the weakest hardware of the three consoles. But that doesn't stop those "unfair" thoughts from severely damaging Nintendo's reputation.
"This should not be Nintendo's game that shows controller capabilities, that game should be the next Mario/New IP thats being developed."
Exactly. The Rev requires a killer app that really sells the concept like how Super Mario 64 sold the analog stick. It doesn't matter what else gets released for launch, that game is required if the Rev is to succeed.
Post by: Kairon on December 24, 2005, 08:32:32 AM
Let's not forget that if there's any company that knows how to take a game traditionally under one control system, and translate it to another one, it's Nintendo. They did it with Mario, Zelda AND Metroid. And besides, looking at the Nunchuck setup I don't see any real difficulties in translating the controls. In the GC and Cube, the excess C buttons or satellite buttons were only there for convenience in item switching, a role now probably taken by the D-pad.
That gives the Rec controller 4 action buttons, one 3D gyroscope and an analog stick to append the lock, defend, attack, move functions to. Zelda is almost nearly a one analog stick and 3 button game.
Zelda:TP will be a game that proves that the Revolution can be the home to traditionally epic games. It will give hardcore gamers that sense of security, and it'll give the Revolution a monster title out the front door. Already on GC hardware Zelda:TP looks more than adequate to compete with X360 games of today, and what differences arise in the 6 months to a year between now and then I am fairly certain that most gamers will be satisfied by the games technology. Besides, the game has been said to offer 100+ hours of gameplay, so I think players would be too caught up in the content to worry about how complex the textures are.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Knoxxville on December 24, 2005, 08:51:41 AM
My money's on Nintendo. Unlike the rest of the competition in the video game "arms race" Nintendo doesn't have a games division.....games is all it does and has ever done. I gotta feeling that this next generation race is gonna go to Nintendo in the end.
Post by: Requiem on December 24, 2005, 09:03:09 AM
I'm reluctant to believe that it is in fact debuting fall of next year. That's madness. If it were true, then the delay would total to over a year (1 year and two months to be exact, assuming November). I'm not exactly sure, but that would be the longest delay ever for a Nintendo first party game.
I think a more reasonable outcome is Nintendo hasn't delayed it at all. In fact, I really doubt the REV will come out next fall. The only REAL information regarding the REV's release date was given by ArtX, stating that they were aiming for a summer release. Honestly, I bet that roughly two or so weeks after E3, TP will launch fully-equipped with REV features. A month after that, the REV will start to launch in all territories. This gives them time to re-release the console next christmas season (maybe a new color and SSMB: Online) and rake in even more cash.
[Taken from the Talk-Back forum] [We really need one thread]
You bring up one of the best points Kairon, though I don't think you meant to.
Is Nintendo using Zelda as a template for Action-Adventure games for next-gen? Assuming that Mario, Metriod, and the Camelot RPG (announced well over two years ago) launch with the REV, that's four huge titles in four different genres. And assuming that all four of those games are nothing less than spectacular, couldn't they "show the way" to third-parties trying to do the same thing?
Maybe Nintendo thought it would be too late to show how an Action-Adventure game should truely work on the REV, assuming Zelda REV comes out a couple years after the REV launches. Maybe that's why they added this specific functionalty and are launching so close to the REV.
We've said it before. Nintendo needs to get the ball rolling right out of the gate. It needs to show us how games are revolutionary in many different genres. Zelda can now claim the adventure genre, with the rest following suit.
The more I think about it, the more this move is pure genius!
Post by: Khushrenada on December 24, 2005, 12:31:17 PM
But I do want to respond to something Kairon has said.
"Zelda:TP will be a game that proves that the Revolution can be the home to traditionally epic games. It will give hardcore gamers that sense of security, and it'll give the Revolution a monster title out the front door."
Zelda doesn't prove that Revolution will be home to epic games. Zelda is a Gamecube game. It's being released before Revolution launches. Not with the launch or after. You can argue that with the two being released close together, (provided this news is correct), that Zelda is part of the launch, but I don't consider it as such. It's also going to come in a case marked Nintendo Gamecube not Nintendo Revolution. It will be played first on the Gamecube. You can play it on the Revolution because it is backwords compatible. When an epic game is released for the Revolution and is packaged in a Revolution case, that will prove it is home to epic games.
But that's just some technical points. TP will no doubt be a monster hit and people who buy a Revolution will probably pick up a copy if they didn't own it already. Like Requiem just mentioned, maybe this is a good way to show other companies how to use the Rev remote for games and show people that nothing will be lost in the change of control.
Still, this should not be the game that showcases the Rev control. That should be the next Mario if it gets released in time but that's a different discussion.
Final quick thoughts. Mantidor - I was refering to Ian Sane. He's discussed before about comparisons between Mario 64 and Mario DS and talked about comparisons made between the Rev remote and traditional controls.
Why is that if I type gimm!ck it turns into sparkling innovation?
Post by: mantidor on December 24, 2005, 12:55:45 PM
and what I meant is that you lacked the incredibly negative tone present in all of Ians posts
Post by: Kairon on December 24, 2005, 01:22:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Khushrenada
Still, this should not be the game that showcases the Rev control. That should be the next Mario if it gets released in time but that's a different discussion.
Don't worry, it won't be, lol.
Personally, I'm hoping that there's a conducting game, a fishing game, a drum/maraca game (can you say Samba de Amigo?) AND a Mario Paint title early on to do exactly that. But that's already wishful thinking on my part.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on December 24, 2005, 01:36:26 PM
I think your right about this point. Then again, something like this has never happened to a console ever, especially with a game so great and a console so contraversial. Therefore, we cannot pass judgment so quickly. Zelda could very well sell as many REVs as Mario, if marketed correctly, so it being a Gamecube game isn't exactly important. However, the need to prove the Revolution revolutionary is. Zelda can help, and so can the other "real" launch titles. As pissed as some gamecubers might be, they must realize that Nintendo is going all or nothing next generation. It is important they do everything RIGHT from the get go. They cannot afford to make any mistakes unless a greater good is the outcome. Having a great launch is essential. Honestly, if Nintendo wasn't so kind to their fanbase, Zelda would be a launch title with updated graphics and all. But Nintendo made a promise, and they feel obligated to hold it.
Still, they found the best comprimise. Iwata kept saying that Zelda TP was comparable to next-gen graphics, and I think he is going to prove it. I honestly love its graphics and when I compare them to Call of Duty 2, I'd much rather have Zelda's ability to draw you in rather than high textures and poor animation; fanboy or not. If it were to come out near the REV launch, then Zelda WOULD be the "home" for epic games. Graphics don't make it a REV game. If it has REV controls, then that is what makes it a REV game, besides it being released for the cube. Zelda would become the perfect example of how to make a REV adventure work. It will set the bar for all epic games afterwards, in terms of control and gameplay.
"Don't worry, it won't be, lol.
Personally, I'm hoping that there's a conducting game, a fishing game, a drum/maraca game (can you say Samba de Amigo?) AND a Mario Paint title early on to do exactly that. But that's already wishful thinking on my part."
I don't think one game can prove the ability of the REV. I think the entire catalog as a whole must prove the REV. It must better or as good as current setups in every single situation it is put into, be it sports, adventure, FPS, microgames, whatever. A Mario Paint would be great, but it alone won't do much. Mario needs to show exactly how it works for platformers; Zelda for Adventure; Metriod for FPS; and so on. As a collective, they can prove the Revolution revolutionary.
Post by: Kairon on December 24, 2005, 02:53:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
"Don't worry, it won't be, lol.
Personally, I'm hoping that there's a conducting game, a fishing game, a drum/maraca game (can you say Samba de Amigo?) AND a Mario Paint title early on to do exactly that. But that's already wishful thinking on my part."
I don't think one game can prove the ability of the REV. I think the entire catalog as a whole must prove the REV. It must better or as good as current setups in every single situation it is put into, be it sports, adventure, FPS, microgames, whatever. A Mario Paint would be great, but it alone won't do much. Mario needs to show exactly how it works for platformers; Zelda for Adventure; Metriod for FPS; and so on. As a collective, they can prove the Revolution revolutionary.
QFT
Still, I don't think Nintendo needs a 1.000 batting average to prove the Rev. They need maybe a bunch of decent examples (I list 4 wishful thinking titles, for example) and maybe 2 or 3 great ones to prove that the revolution controller can really be a new standard.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Khushrenada on December 24, 2005, 03:21:16 PM
"Then again, something like this has never happened to a console ever, especially with a game so great and a console so contraversial."
I smiled at that. It's very true and something I've been thinking to myself as I've been reading this topic. What you said is the thing I've been missing. Nintendo wants to have their A-list franchises at launch of Revolution. That's why Iwata is pushing for Mario 128 and has mentioned Metroid and Smash Bros. as launch titles. Nintendo wants a Zelda title also but it takes a long time to make one and they've been working on TP the whole time. They can't switch Zelda to Revolution because of all the promising they made about it beeing on Gamecube. Thus they decide to add Rev functionality and release them close together. That's not a bad solution.
OK, I've changed my mind. Nintendo probably does have more to gain with adding Rev functionality to TP. But I still stand by my original observation that Nintendo still must prove the Rev controls to be better than the Gamecube controls because this game will probably be the biggest comparison between the two.
Also Requiem:
"I think the entire catalog as a whole must prove the REV."
I agree absolutely with this as well. If you look at the DS there's different games that highlight different features. No one game dictates the way everything should be made for the DS. I'm just saying they need a game that paves the way for what Nintendo hopes to accomplish. Like how Mario 64 showed how 3D platformers could work and how you could control the camera. That doesn't mean Mario 64 was the greatest of all 64 games. Other games took those concepts and and tweaked or added things. Even Zelda OoT took some of the concepts of Mario 64. That's what I mean when I say this should not be the game that showcases the Rev control.
Post by: IceCold on December 24, 2005, 03:40:45 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 30, 2005, 04:31:29 PM
Post by: B00tleg on December 31, 2005, 01:24:51 PM
Post by: Ceric on January 01, 2006, 08:50:19 AM
Seven for the doubters in there hall of specs.
Nine for the Non-Gamers who are doomed to try,
One for Miyamoto on his Pipe throne
In the Land of Nintendo where the Plumber lie.
One Game to show them all how it's done, One Game to find them,
One Game to bring them all and in the console bind them
In the Land of Nintendo where the Plumber lie.
Post by: SaimDusan.I on January 02, 2006, 03:23:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Three Games for the Fans who look to the sky,
Seven for the doubters in there hall of specs.
Nine for the Non-Gamers who are doomed to try,
One for Miyamoto on his Pipe throne
In the Land of Nintendo where the Plumber lie.
One Game to show them all how it's done, One Game to find them,
One Game to bring them all and in the console bind them
In the Land of Nintendo where the Plumber lie.
Lol.
Edit: Woops I quoted the wrong person. Fix'd.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 02, 2006, 07:12:37 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 08, 2006, 09:46:23 AM
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62348
Ah! But what's this? Nintendo gives National Geographic Kids Magazine a possible scoop on videogame mags?
According to NGKM, Donkey Konga, Smash Bros., and Zelda are all playable with the Rev controller, and they know this because Nintendo of Japan invited them over! Now, do they mean new games, or simply the old SSBM, Donkey Konga and TWILIGHT PRINCESS???
http://joystiq.com/2006/01/07/magazine-reveals-revolution-details-zelda-super-smash-bros-d/
So...we're still confused. NGC was speculation, but Nintendo didn't deny the rumor. They keep denying the TP-ported-to-Rev rumours, but they don't want to outright deny the TP-playable-with-revmote rumours?
And then they invite a non-gaming magazine to Japan to go hands-on and to write this?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: stevey on January 08, 2006, 11:11:26 AM
edit:got the link
Post by: Kairon on January 08, 2006, 11:24:22 AM
Anyways, do you think they're anywhere beyond the testing and conceptualization phases on "New" Zelda?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: BigJim on January 08, 2006, 02:40:24 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 10, 2006, 04:52:29 AM
Or they could simply be referring to the traditional controller shell. That's even something they could show to a magazine like National Geographic Kids without giving them much of a scoop.
Post by: Kairon on January 10, 2006, 12:25:20 PM
LOL. I give up, whatever happens, happens, and I'll just have to trust in Miyamoto that it's for the better! lol.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 10, 2006, 01:38:38 PM
Post by: mantidor on January 10, 2006, 01:58:45 PM
Post by: Requiem on January 10, 2006, 04:00:49 PM
Post by: mantidor on January 10, 2006, 04:26:17 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 10, 2006, 09:09:25 PM
Anyways, the latest is that NGC, the original source of this story, has gone on record that their story was NOT speculation and have accused Nintendo of trying to cover their tracks.
Will the madness never end?!?!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on January 10, 2006, 09:22:21 PM
Post by: mantidor on January 11, 2006, 02:47:51 AM
Post by: Requiem on January 11, 2006, 04:07:51 AM
If they bust out the REV and have Link doing all sorts of crazy things, it will instantly create a HUGE demand for the REV. People who don't like Nintendo, LOVE Zelda. That's always how its been. Zelda is Nintendo's best franchise, and to make full use of it is absolutely brilliant.
I get your point about how making a Zelda REV from scratch would be better, but that doesn't make any sense. This Zelda could make a base control scheme for Zelda REV, making the newer Zelda automatically superior (control wise) based on this "experimintation" phase alone. Besides, making this game will arouse far more creativity and ideas for the next game. It's exactly like how OOT made the control scheme we know today and how Majora's Mask expanded on the gameplay. And Majora's Mask wasn't a bad game now was it? In fact, it was superior in creativity (and in gameplay in my opinion) to OOT.
It's a win-win situation. We get Zelda with REV controls now, and Zelda with better REV controls later.
NGC is right. I believe this rumor. I've said it before: No magazine would put there entire reputation on the line just for a scoop, no matter how big. And to make a rebutle (sp?) against Nintendo means that they probably do have worthwhile information.
There's no cons in this situation. Adding REV controls is nothing but a positive....and don't give that "we could be playing it now." The delay was already made for gameplay reasons, and you already excepted that.
I guess we can't no for sure until E3, but I will bet anything its true (all signs put to yes).
Post by: IceCold on January 11, 2006, 06:17:43 AM
But OoT was made from the ground up with the 64 in mind; the controls were originally 64 controls, and everything was done with the 64 in mind. This is completely different - TP was made for the GCN - the whole game was based on the fact that it was coming out on the GameCube. Changing the direction to include Rev controls when the game is basically done is not the way to do it. In fact, it would have been better if Nintendo didn't even announce the new Zelda at E3 2K4 - they should have developed it solely for the Revolution. A realistic Zelda at launch which used the controls perfectly and all the power of the Revolution would be a much better indication of the Rev's strengths; adding this functionality will not be. I know that if this happened the Cube would be stuck for nearly 2 years without much meaningful support, and the momentum for the Revolution will be less, but still, I don't like this one bit..
Post by: mantidor on January 11, 2006, 06:52:12 AM
No, it wont, at least I hope it wont. And Im repeating myself again, but Nintendo has the interface as the most important thing in a game, we dont notice it because the interface always becomes transparent (something that proves they are very good at it), theres a reason why Miyamoto called TP the "last Zelda game as we know it", because with the Rev the game itself is going to see radical changes in its core mechanics, putting rev features in TP is as lame as putting analog in a Link the Past, a total waste.
Post by: Kairon on January 11, 2006, 08:17:07 AM
Besides, with Nintendo throwing all their chips in with the Rev I wouldn't blame them for wanting to leverage Zelda:TP as much as possible for the next generation. They could use TP to prove the viability of traditional games on the Rev, they could use it as an experimentation ground for control schemes for the Zelda:Rev that we're all expecting, and they could use it as an immense selling point for the Rev instead of just as a swansong for the GC.
And besides, Miyamoto is still there, watching over this project, and it's ridiculous for us to pass judgement without seeing the final product. If Miyamoto himself allows these changes, and allows this secondary control scheme then I don't see why any of us should complain until we see the result. He obviously has good reason for doing so. After all, he IS Miyamoto.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on January 11, 2006, 08:44:28 AM
But OoT was made from the ground up with the 64 in mind; the controls were originally 64 controls, and everything was done with the 64 in mind. This is completely different - TP was made for the GCN - the whole game was based on the fact that it was coming out on the GameCube.
Are you so sure about that? I happen to recall a Nintendo Employee (not sure who it was) mentioning that TP was basically finished. This was before E3 of last year. I am positive that this decision wasn't made when the internet started speculating ideas for Zelda (i.e. when the control was revealed), or when the delay announcement wa made. It was determined long ago. This game was made for the GCN and REV. The first of its kind. The best of the franchises.
Furthermore....made for the GCN? WW was made for the GCN, TP will expand on it. TP isn't the OOT of the N64...WW is. Therefore, TP is more like Majora's Mask in a way. It is the game that expands on the current scheme. Not only that, but it both expands and developes an entire new scheme. Is it unfathomable that they could do both at the same time? Is that some how out of the question?
Zelda REV will be BETTER (control wise) because TP has REV features. End of story. You can't argue that fact. So therefore, isn't it better, for the sake of Zelda REV, that TP has REV controls? Why wouldn't it be (talking only game wise). Maybe the initial shock of playing something new will be lost, but then again, all Zeldas retian that feel; they all bring something new and refreshing to the table, so that point is moot.
A realistic Zelda at launch which used the controls perfectly and all the power of the Revolution would be a much better indication of the Rev's strengths; adding this functionality will not be.
It's true that it would of been a much better indication. However, what a perfect way to transition into the next gen. I don't know which on is better; the transition or the indication, but I know for a FACT that if TP didn't have REV controls, it wouldn't be either.
putting rev features in TP is as lame as putting analog in a Link the Past, a total waste.
It is absolutely NOTHING like that. Adding functionality has the possibility of making the controls even more transparent. Is that a bad thing? You said it yourself, Nintendo is a master at this sort of thing. Do you actually expect them to half-ass it?
If this is true, TP will be the example of what it means to be a REV game. It will have the side-by-side comparison that is needed to prove the concept. What other franchise would be better than the critically accliamed Zelda, the game of all games? If Zelda works marvelously, then it must be good for gaming.
I honestly don't know what you guys are complaining about. Is it because you want to play Zelda now? Or, is it because you'd rather have TP be a REV game only? Please tell me.
EDIT:
I wouldn't rule out the idea that Nintendo may be adding a secondary optional control scheme to Zelda:TP using the Rev controls. I mean, seriously, if it's only an overlay and playing Zelda Rev with the GC controller is still standard then I don't see what possible harm could come of it.
Is that it IceCold and Mantidor? Are you afraid that the original game will be somehow altered or lost? What proof do you have to arouse (sp?) such fear?
I didn't even want to go back into the beside side of this decision, but Kairon brushed up on it. I'll just say this...From a business perspective, this is a great idea with no negatives.
Post by: mantidor on January 11, 2006, 09:27:58 AM
Ill elaborate later since Im at work about the other points, but its very obvious that the game has never been near finished specially after all the promises about its length and depth, if the game was near finished so long ago Nintendo wouldve released it last year since thats like common sense, I think is very naive to think the game was ready to go last year.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 11, 2006, 10:06:48 AM
That's not a fact so it's pretty easy to argue. None of us have played with a Rev controller. The only indication that it's "better" is that Nintendo said so and they're obviously a pretty biased source for that kind of info. Personally I find the idea of playing current generation games on the remote very unappealing. The lack of buttons to me suggests a huge compromise will have to be made in order to shoehorn controls designed for six buttons into two.
To say that TP will be improved by the Rev controls requires incredible faith in Nintendo. I will agree that the game probably won't be worse unless they have to retool everything or compromise any ideas that would have worked with just the Cube controller but not with both. But to declare the controls will be improved as factual just doesn't make sense.
Post by: Kairon on January 11, 2006, 11:01:51 AM
Anyways, on a personal note, I can't imagine why this delay is anything negative to gamers. There's just so much other stuff out there to play. And we're Nintendo fans to boot, delays should be second nature to us by now.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on January 11, 2006, 11:57:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Zelda REV will be BETTER (control wise) because TP has REV features. End of story. You can't argue that fact."
That's not a fact so it's pretty easy to argue. None of us have played with a Rev controller. The only indication that it's "better" is that Nintendo said so and they're obviously a pretty biased source for that kind of info. Personally I find the idea of playing current generation games on the remote very unappealing. The lack of buttons to me suggests a huge compromise will have to be made in order to shoehorn controls designed for six buttons into two.
To say that TP will be improved by the Rev controls requires incredible faith in Nintendo. I will agree that the game probably won't be worse unless they have to retool everything or compromise any ideas that would have worked with just the Cube controller but not with both. But to declare the controls will be improved as factual just doesn't make sense.
Ian, you totally didn't get what I was saying. Let me rephrase: If TP were to have REV features, it would make the Zelda REV CONTROLS automatically better. I am not saying the REVmote will be better than a normal controller. Since the control scheme is setup for the REV in TP, it allows the next Zelda that uses REV controls (i.e. Zelda REV) to gain feedback and make changes within the scheme; thus, making it better automatically (unless its perfect to begin with).
That's all I was saying.
Mantidor, you realize that you had NO IDEA that this was the reason of the delay when they made the announcement. Sure you were frustrated, but you accepted that gameplay changes were more important to you than you playing it last November. What's the difference? You already accepted it!
Post by: Ian Sane on January 11, 2006, 12:22:46 PM
That's all I was saying."
Ah I see. It's like TP is somewhat of a test run to see how well Rev controls will work with Zelda. Yeah that makes sense.
Post by: Ceric on January 11, 2006, 02:28:39 PM
Post by: mantidor on January 11, 2006, 04:28:06 PM
First, Requiem you talk about the Wind Waker like if it was a radical change, it isnt, it isnt the OoT of anything because the game expanded again what OoT and Majora's Mask did, it perfected the controls, thanks in part to the wonderful GC controller, and in part of its excellent design. Your comparison with Majoras Mask makes no sense to me whatsoever.
"Zelda REV will be BETTER (control wise) because TP has REV features. End of story. You can't argue that fact."
No, thats hardly a fact, and its the reason Im glad you dont work at Nintendo and I hope you never will, because and Im repeating myself again again and again TP is a Gamecube game. Its core is the GC controller, Im confident Nintendo wont be as mediocre as to implement old gameplay mechanics using the remote for the real Zelda rev, it will be something completly fresh. Miyamoto said it himself, "this is the last Zelda game as we know it" and its pretty obvious why, as Ian has said in many posts, it would be terrible if all that Nintendo does is map functions that are done with a button to a movement or gesture in the remote, Im personally expecting an OoT level of change for the real Zelda Revolution, there arent more dimensions to explore (please do not talk nonsense about the fourth dimension
), but what the remote will bring will be almost parallel to the 2D-3D jump, thats the kind of hype I have right now.Im going to try to explain myself with Metroid Prime, the interface becomes transparent not only because of the controller and its functionality, but because of its superb design, we dont notice it of course (and that means its an awesome game), but the game, its levels and enemies are carefully design to take advantage of the control scheme, and the control scheme is tied to the limitations of the controller itself, hence the lock on feature. The way we kill bosses for instance, it isnt like Super Metroid, where quick reflexes were more important, but its more like a puzzle, remember how the last boss is? for Metroid Prime 3 I expect something unbelievable, lock on should be completly gone, puzzles would be trully a 3D experience, because the controller is no longer limited. Would mapping the remote to MP2 help MP3 gameplay mechanics? not at all. I have the same thoughts about Zelda.
"It is absolutely NOTHING like that. Adding functionality has the possibility of making the controls even more transparent. Is that a bad thing? You said it yourself, Nintendo is a master at this sort of thing. Do you actually expect them to half-ass it?"
Thats where I think you just dont get what makes Nintendo games so great, again, TP is a damn GC game, and thats its core, the only way to not make mediocre remote interface for me would be to make the game from scratch, to completly overhaul it. Sure fishing would be a cool thing, but its nothing more than a gimm!ck ( gimm!ck has such a negative tone in the gaming community, but for me it isnt a bad thing, its just not the awesome excellence Im acostumed with Zelda games)
"If this is true, TP will be the example of what it means to be a REV game. It will have the side-by-side comparison that is needed to prove the concept. What other franchise would be better than the critically accliamed Zelda, the game of all games? If Zelda works marvelously, then it must be good for gaming."
oh god lets hope thats not the case, it would be really bad if we compare TP GC mechanics with its Rev counterparts, thats like comparing how LttP is with the Dpad and with the analog stick if it was ever implemented (as dumb as many of you think this comparison is for me is very relevant), better to compare it with Ocarina of Time gameplay mechanics, or in this case, Zelda Rev gameplay mechanics.
"Is that it IceCold and Mantidor? Are you afraid that the original game will be somehow altered or lost? What proof do you have to arouse (sp?) such fear?"
Its the same case with you, have you any proof that these unconfirmed Revolution features will indeed make the real Zelda Revolution better?
I dont think the original core TP game will be altered siginificantly (although Id prefer alot more that instead of these added functionality, they would stick to their promise and focus all their efforts to create the ultimate "traditional" Zelda game), but I cant see these added features as nothing else that a cheap move to give an extra push to the Rev, which for me its completly unnecesary.
"Sorry Mantidor, lol. But if the only thing upsetting you is needing to wait longer for TP then you really should just say that and not imply that Nintendo is wasting their time and doing something pointless on the level of delaying LttP to add analog stick functions.-"
Well I dont think this is pointless, it has a specific purpose, to promote the Revolution even more. It is a waste for me because I think the remote is fully capable of a lot more than just mapping old gen gameplay mechanics, its almost Virtual Reality, This wont trully show what its capable of, kind of the same way that analog in aLttP wont show the real capabilities of an analog stick ( I personally think that the remote is even a bigger change and improvement that what the analog stick was in its time).
I know that for you Im way overreacting but Im a Nintendo fanboy and particulary a Zelda fanboy, I tend to over-analyze things related to them
Now Ill finish my bottle of wine, I hope these post was understandable (I shouldnt post drunk but its my birthday )
Post by: Shecky on January 11, 2006, 04:45:17 PM
All of you can keep wishfully thinking that you'll essentially get two games for the price of one. Tell me why it is not in Nintendo best interest to release TP and then release a different title for the REV - likely using a slightly modified engine in roughly a year. You'd have two distinct and bona fide titles because the REV title could make use of the "REVmote" in ways that could provide a unique and intuitive experience not easily translated to a gamecube controller.
I had a challenge outstanding in one of the other threads... think of a clever bit of game play that utilizes the "REVmote" and its features. A game scenario if you will. Then make it work effectively with a gamecube controller.
Post by: IceCold on January 11, 2006, 04:48:39 PM
I don't know about that... I'm having a really hard time believing that the Rev controller was already finalised when TP first started being developed.
From a business perspective, this probably is a good idea.. I'm not denying that. However, I would be angry because..
They would be essentially delaying the game to add in features that you can't even use unless you buy a Rev, which many Cube owners will not. So the GameCube owners will get cheated, since first they have to wait longer for a game when the system hasn't had meaningful support for a long time, but ALSO they won't even be able to use the features that caused the delay..
And I can't really explain it, but I want the first Zelda on the Revolution to be ... pure.. I want it to be like OoT, where it shocks the world with how brilliant it is, and it uses everything the Rev has to offer, just like OoT did for the 64. Everything.. Just putting controls into TP will ruin it for me, and I definitely don't want it to be experimental as you are saying. THAT's why I don't like this - I want to feel like I did with Super Mario Bros or Super Mario 64 when I first played them. If this comes out first, it will cheapen the whole thing for me.
Maybe I'm too sentimental though..
Post by: Artimus on January 11, 2006, 04:57:34 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 11, 2006, 04:59:45 PM
RELEASE THE DAMN GAME ALREADY.
Post by: nemo_83 on January 11, 2006, 07:15:02 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 11, 2006, 07:17:27 PM
or
fact?
I bet we'll never know.
But would they really fire him for leaking that little bit of info?
Was that supposed to be a big surprise? Most of us expected it as it was the only way to justify delaying a game that was nearly finished for this long.
Post by: Kairon on January 11, 2006, 07:39:27 PM
So in the end my eyes are on Miyamoto. He's the source of whatever magic is captured in a Zelda game, and the only thing I really CAN do is to trust in him. We'll see whether this is the thrid Zelda game in a row that I dislike, but until then I have to trust in the father of Mario to do his best, and reserve my judgement on whether this news is a good thing, or a bad thing, in terms of the game's quality.
Of course, as a business move, I'd think it would make plenty of sense. I just have to hope Miyamoto isn't letting a business move ruin Zelda, I have to trust him when he says that they're delaying it to add in some those really awesome things like they allege.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on January 12, 2006, 04:16:28 AM
IceCold:
You want Zelda REV to be special and I understand that fact. But, why can't TP be that special game you have envisioned Zelda REV to be? Why is TP already alienated? Is it because of, dare I say, the graphics? Is it because it was announced as a GameCube game first?
I feel the ONLY reason Nintendo kept TP as a GC game was because they had already announced it as such. If they suddenly switched it to ReV, they would essentially be turning there back on those who are anticipating its arrival. Thus, pissing off far more gamers in comparison to if they added ReV functionality.
And why would gamer's feel cheated? They can still play the entire game on the GCN. The adding of features is basically a huge extra for those that take the next step. It is first and foremost a GC game, but its secondlly a REV game. Is that bad? Wouldn't you like all your games to have something extra if you purchased the next system up? For example, your gba game when plugged into the DS now has touch-screen capability. Is that such a bad thing?
I don't know about that... I'm having a really hard time believing that the Rev controller was already finalised when TP first started being developed.
Maybe so, but during developement, specifically after the announcement made by Gyration, they must of considered the possibility. And frankly, that's enough, even if you don't have the actual control finalized. They can still juggle ideas back and forth. Just like how I made an entire control and camera scheme based on nothing but what the REVmote is suppose to do.
Manditor:
Wow, first off, alot of words to chew there. All start with this one...sorry to qoute rape
Would mapping the remote to MP2 help MP3 gameplay mechanics? not at all. I have the same thoughts about Zelda.
Yes it would. MP2 would essentially be a test-run, as Ian eloquintely named. Maybe not a test run in our eyes. Hell it could play perfectly to us. But to Retro, that would be their first try at a new control scheme, and it can only get better the more they try. The same holds true with all games, even Zelda.
No, thats hardly a fact, and its the reason Im glad you dont work at Nintendo and I hope you never will
Oh come on. I can't be all that bad
. I did, infact, predict something to the affect of the REVmote by the way 
.I'm confident Nintendo wont be as mediocre as to implement old gameplay mechanics using the remote for the real Zelda rev, it will be something completly fresh. Miyamoto said it himself, "this is the last Zelda game as we know it" and its pretty obvious why, as Ian has said in many posts, it would be terrible if all that Nintendo does is map functions that are done with a button to a movement or gesture in the remote, Im personally expecting an OoT
As much as I'd like this to be true, the REV really can't change the game that much. I mean, think about it. Is Zelda going to be Third-Person? Probably. Well, that automatically means it will have some sort of camera like the one we see today, but maybe more precise. Will Link have an arsenal of weapons and items? Most likely. Well, that means that we must have some way to quickly access those items/weapons, so something to the affect of the c-stick will be present. Will Link attack with a sword? Almost definitely. So that means something to the affect of a "B" button will be present....
And it goes on and on. You really can't change the game all that much (assuming it stays third-person) or it becomes a different game. Maybe I'm not thinking out of the box enough, but I see the collaboration of what Nintedno learned while moving into 3-D and the ReVmote providing the best result for Zelda. When the two are used sybiotically, it'll make the BEST Zelda.
TP is a damn GC game, and thats its core, the only way to not make mediocre remote interface for me would be to make the game from scratch, to completly overhaul it
But why? Are you saying that the puzzles need to be controller orientated? Is that what you were trying to say with the MP example? Well if that's true, then I just told you that Zelda REV cannot change drastically. The controls can only become more transparent. Sure there may be a couple context-sensitive situation where you can control Link's hand to achieve some goal, but for the most part it'll look like Zelda games from the past, only more interactive (therefore more fun). Again, maybe we have different visions of the future Zelda, but I just can't see how it can all the sudden become some different entity.
In my mind, Zelda is the perfect example of how to make a third-person game. Zelda in third-person, is Zelda in optimum form. Adding the Revmote can only make it more interactive and more intuitive. It can't completely change the game. You'll just be able to control more things, and control them precisely. So if you could tell me just exactly what your expecting and how adding rev-capabilities to TP will hender that expection, then I may understand you.
it would be really bad if we compare TP GC mechanics with its Rev counterparts
Again, you think there is going to be some huge change to the gameplay. I just don't get that. It can only become more precise and more involved. What do you have in mind for Zelda REV?
It's the same case with you, have you any proof that these unconfirmed Revolution features will indeed make the real Zelda Revolution better?
Read my comment about your MP comparison. (under the first bold qoute)
It is a waste for me because I think the remote is fully capable of a lot more than just mapping old gen gameplay mechanics, its almost Virtual Reality, This wont trully show what its capable of, kind of the same way that analog in aLttP wont show the real capabilities of an analog stick
Maybe so, but that is a problem that you must change yourself. Your expecting something akin to virtual reality. Your expectations are too high. Yes you maybe able to control Link's sword with your hand, but isn't that mapping old gen gameplay to new gen mechanics?
What are you expecting?
Post by: mantidor on January 12, 2006, 04:49:59 AM
Over hype is a bad thing, but its Nintendos fault! after the initial shock of "OMg a remote !?!?" I could finally get the controller and that made realize that we are in for really great things if Nintendo trully delivers. I really, really dont want it to be used as an extra feature for the last GC game, it "cheapens" the remote as well a the game itself, somehow the game wont feel "complete" for me for lack of a better word .
Post by: IceCold on January 12, 2006, 07:20:43 AM
But, why can't TP be that special game you have envisioned Zelda REV to be? Why is TP already alienated? Is it because of, dare I say, the graphics? Is it because it was announced as a GameCube game first?
Because it won't take full advantage of everything the Rev has to offer, and therefore it won't be the complete and polished Rev game that I want. The true Zelda Revolution will push the controls and the Rev hardware, not only for graphics but to do things that the GameCube hardware just isn't able to (like how Pikmin couldn't be done on the N64). And at the very beginning of the development of this Zelda, Nintendo will be thinking about the Rev controls all the way, unlike TP. So that's why TP can't be the special Rev game for me..
And why would gamer's feel cheated? They can still play the entire game on the GCN.
Yes, they can play the game on GCN... a few months LATER with nothing added for their benefit unless they buy a Revolution..
Post by: Requiem on January 12, 2006, 08:19:10 AM
I finally see what you mean in regards to why TP can't be Zelda REV. But look at it this way, TP is an appetizer for Zelda REV. The control scheme will wet our mouths and envoke our hunger. Plus, even if TP were to be released last November (assuming this delay was soley because of forwards-compatibility), Zelda REV wouldn't come out till two or three years later anyway. So, instead of being disgruntle about the situation, be pleased that you can play something zelda and REV related till the actual Zelda comes out later.
That's why I'm all for it. I would have played TP (assuming its the best Zelda yet) at least 2 or 3 times anyways. Now, I'll probably play it 6 times!
Post by: JonLeung on January 25, 2006, 02:07:04 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on January 25, 2006, 02:15:17 PM
Post by: Nile Boogie on January 25, 2006, 03:47:04 PM
?
Forward Compatibility, I thought I made that up. :-)
Post by: zakkiel on January 25, 2006, 04:28:00 PM
You are not being "cheated" by having Zelda delayed, even assuming it is for forwards compatibility reasons only. You'll get just as much enjoyment out of it if you get it six months from now as if you'd had it last month. In any case, Nintendo has no reason to cater to people who ahve already decided not to buy their next generation.
Post by: Nosferat2 on January 25, 2006, 06:18:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I still say the game should be Rev only...
I second that.
Post by: IceCold on January 26, 2006, 11:46:51 AM
Yeah, you'll get the same enjoyment. But you'll still have to wait six extra months for no use.. And this is at a time when the GameCube has precious few games coming out, so obviously people will have bad feelings towards Nintendo. And Nintendo's job is to cater to the GameCube owners. What if they're undecided on whether to buy a Revolution? Do you think that a move like this will endear them to Nintendo?
Post by: zakkiel on January 26, 2006, 12:33:36 PM
QuoteA move like this gives them incentive to try the Revolution. Myself, I have no patience with those who whine about delays. They happen all the time. Get used to it. If someone decides not to buy a next generation system based on a delay in a game schedule, from my perspective that's just one fewer stupid person to run into in the Revolution's online service.
Originally posted by: IceCold
Yeah, you'll get the same enjoyment. But you'll still have to wait six extra months for no use.. And this is at a time when the GameCube has precious few games coming out, so obviously people will have bad feelings towards Nintendo. And Nintendo's job is to cater to the GameCube owners. What if they're undecided on whether to buy a Revolution? Do you think that a move like this will endear them to Nintendo?
Post by: Requiem on February 08, 2006, 08:12:08 AM
http://revo-europe.com/news.php?nid=8803
Quote
Reggie: Exactly. I think that our senior management has made it very clear that bringing Zelda: Twilight Princess out on GameCube is important, that we want to satisfy the GameCube fan base and have it be on that system. You've said the obvious, which is that [because] Revolution's backward compatible, it will almost effectively be a launch title for Revolution. The trick will be what makes it special to play on Revolution, and to the extent that we could create something like that, boy, wouldn't that be fantastic? Certainly one of the things that I would love to see is something that makes Zelda, when it's played on Revolution, do something magical. And I think that any Nintendo fan would love to see that.
A Reggie interview that blatantly hints at TP being able to use the REVmote. He doesn't go into detial about the types of possibilities, but he does stress that it will do something "magical" and "special."
A fishing game with REV controls sounds great, but magical?.........hardly...
We are in for a treat...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 08, 2006, 08:42:39 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 08, 2006, 08:52:34 AM
Though I imagine if it was just Cube content locked away you could probably find it with a Gameshark. That's not an excuse because then I still have to pay extra money but it would be a workaround at least.
Post by: Requiem on February 08, 2006, 08:54:41 AM
Post by: JonLeung on February 08, 2006, 08:56:11 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 08, 2006, 09:08:10 AM
Yeah but I could always wait for Zelda to be released on the Rev and thus benefit from price cuts or new colours. So I either have to buy a Rev at launch which I might not want to do. Or I have to wait probably a few years to unlock a piece of Twilight Princess. That's a little annoying.
Plus I'm iffy about how the Rev will work with existing franchises, particularly with a pretty deep complex game like Zelda that isn't really all that non-gamer friendly. If Zelda becomes the sword swinging game that some people seem to want it to become then I'm not interested. But my Cube Zelda game still has content I can't access. So there better be a good reason why and not being possible to do on the Cube would be a good one.
Afterall Nintendo has talked about this being the last Zelda as we know it so it's not fair to assume we'll like a new "vision" of Zelda. We might not. If Four Swords became the new standard I wouldn't buy a system just to play it like I will do with current Zelda games. I like Four Swords and would buy it if I already owned the system for some other reason but it wouldn't sell me a system on its own. Zelda has to remain a system-seller.
Post by: ThePerm on February 08, 2006, 09:13:46 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 08, 2006, 09:17:20 AM
If that's in response to my "few years" comment I was referring to when the Rev Zelda game comes out (ie: when a Zelda fan has a reason to buy a Rev) which I assume would be a few years from now.
Post by: Requiem on February 08, 2006, 09:23:45 AM
Imagine Nintendo demoing the possibilities of the REV with many different titles that are underway. Then imagine them bringing the already released or about to be released TP to the stage floor and Miyamoto showing us how TP will play on the REV. Miyamoto shows us how sword fighting on horse-back will be that much more immersive, with him holding the controller up towards the ceiling and Link holding his sword up towards the sky. He then jousts the Pig boss and realistically slashes the boss right off of his horse.
Miyamoto for the WIN!
How much hype would that build?! It would be IanSANE. In fact, it would blow away any margain of doubt left in even the most skeptical. What better game to show how classic gaming can improve then the best series of all time?! If they launched TP directly afterwards, people would go nuts. They'd buy it just for the prospect of playing it on the REV sometime down the line. However, they'll enjoy it on the Cube no doubt.
Then before the REV launches (starting in September/October), Nintendo reminds us of the gem of a game we already have and it's ability to be played on the REV. Not only that, but shows us again how killer games such as Metriod, Smash Bros., Mario Paint (wishful thinking) and the OFFICAILY ANNOUNCE Camelot RPG play on the REV.
REV would be locked up
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 08, 2006, 09:32:21 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 08, 2006, 09:34:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
My bet is that TP will be released sometime before or after E3 (soon after).
Imagine Nintendo demoing the possibilities of the REV with many different titles that are underway. Then imagine them bringing the already released or about to be released TP to the stage floor and Miyamoto showing us how TP will play on the REV. Miyamoto shows us how sword fighting on horse-back will be that much more immersive, with him holding the controller up towards the ceiling and Link holding his sword up towards the sky. He then jousts the Pig boss and realistically slashes the boss right off of his horse.
Miyamoto for the WIN!
How much hype would that build?! It would be IanSANE. In fact, it would blow away any margain of doubt left in even the most skeptical. What better game to show how classic gaming can improve then the best series of all time?! If they launched TP directly afterwards, people would go nuts. They'd buy it just for the prospect of playing it on the REV sometime down the line. However, they'll enjoy it on the Cube no doubt.
Then before the REV launches (starting in September/October), Nintendo reminds us of the gem of a game we already have and it's ability to be played on the REV. Not only that, but shows us again how killer games such as Metriod, Smash Bros., Mario Paint (wishful thinking) and the OFFICAILY ANNOUNCE Camelot RPG play on the REV.
REV would be locked up
Gah, it's posts like that which can whip me into a fanboy frenzy if I'm not careful...
"Expect nothing and never be disappointed." That's my motto.
-SB
Post by: IceCold on February 08, 2006, 09:35:48 AM
QuoteNo, Nintendo was was equivocal about it, as usual..
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Wasn't this rumor dismissed?
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 08, 2006, 09:40:59 AM
Quote
Reggie: Exactly. I think that our senior management has made it very clear that bringing Zelda: Twilight Princess out on GameCube is important, that we want to satisfy the GameCube fan base and have it be on that system. You've said the obvious, which is that [because] Revolution's backward compatible, it will almost effectively be a launch title for Revolution. The trick will be what makes it special to play on Revolution, and to the extent that we could create something like that, boy, wouldn't that be fantastic? Certainly one of the things that I would love to see is something that makes Zelda, when it's played on Revolution, do something magical. And I think that any Nintendo fan would love to see that.
Then I think we have to expect SOMETHING more than simply fishing with the Rev controller.
I expect it to be more like RE
S where you use the stylus to knife-slash enemies but it's not the main focus of the game. The mounted combat would be perfect for this.-SB
Post by: Requiem on February 08, 2006, 10:01:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Wasn't this rumor dismissed?
NGC declared it
Nintendo "denied" it, saying it is pure speculation, but never say that it's not going to happen
NGC declared it once again
Nintendo says its a nice idea and would be cool if implemented
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 15, 2006, 05:52:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nintendo-Europe in an interview with Miyamoto
“I would say that we are progressing well with completing it,” says Miyamoto. “And one of the most important features is that, because Revolution can run GameCube software, when you play Twilight Princess on Revolution you can take advantage of the Revolution controller.”
Source = Nintendo-Europe.com
Not that most of us havn't been expecting this the entire time(why else delay, delay, delay?), but now it seems to be confirmed
From the interviewer: "we weren't expecting Mr. Miyamoto to be quite so open in his interview answers during his visit - but it's great he's announcing these things, especially the Zelda/Revolution control - apparently you can use the wand as the string on the bow, pulling it back as you're riding epona with the analogue stick."
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 15, 2006, 10:45:39 AM
Post by: vudu on March 15, 2006, 11:07:42 AM
Post by: IceCold on March 15, 2006, 12:34:20 PM
Post by: 31 Flavas on March 15, 2006, 01:55:31 PM
QuoteIt's not like there hasn't been unlockable content in non-nintendo games. Ian, you'll survive... and at the very least i'll invite you over to my place so play / unlock the content on my revolution.
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Plus I'm iffy about how the Rev will work with existing franchises, particularly with a pretty deep complex game like Zelda that isn't really all that non-gamer friendly. If Zelda becomes the sword swinging game that some people seem to want it to become then I'm not interested. But my Cube Zelda game still has content I can't access. So there better be a good reason why and not being possible to do on the Cube would be a good one.
Post by: mantidor on March 15, 2006, 02:38:24 PM
Now my hype for the revolution has dropped completly, Ill just wait and see.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 15, 2006, 03:14:26 PM
TOTAL FLOP
Post by: stevey on March 15, 2006, 03:42:08 PM
No, nintendo has said before they have been working to just get it out on the cube for a long time and that why it got delay first place, (zelda is a big game and there a lot to do in it to make it great), but only in last few month they said their think about adding rev stuff since everyone wont stop bug and asking them about it over and over and now there doing the whole adding rev stuff which will be rushed and make the game and the rev look bad and redelay even more so it's a rev launch game. We could have been playing it by may/june but now not intill the late fall, happy "OMG zelda rev compatible" evil romor starters?
[/Ian]
Post by: jasonditz on March 15, 2006, 05:52:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Bah... Whats bugging me now is that Im seriously concerned about what Nintendo really thinks about of the potential of the controller, if they think its just ok to cram this functionality in last gen games then I have my doubts on the kind of original software they are going to put for the Rev, this is 180 degree turn in my views of Nintendo as developer, and a big slap to their loyal fans who bought a GC in the first place.
Now my hype for the revolution has dropped completly, Ill just wait and see.
Yeah, much like Mario 64 proved they had no good ideas for original games for the DS.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 15, 2006, 06:37:05 PM
Post by: RiskyChris on March 15, 2006, 06:40:31 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 15, 2006, 07:06:22 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 16, 2006, 12:53:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Mantidor, you're being a total weiner for no reason
Of course I have a reason for being so whiny
, the game I was most exited about is getting additions that I cant find even remotely interesting, but I have to wait longer anyway.My concerns are real though, but I suppose E3 and demos of real games being tried by the public with give me a better look of what real revolution games will offer.
Post by: ThePerm on March 16, 2006, 04:18:38 PM
meanwhile metroid prime hunters is coming out by tuesday
