Post by: NotSoStu on November 30, 2005, 05:05:03 AM
Think WFC will really be pursued by Nintendo? I mean, it has a hell of a better chance than the other things I've listed (E-Reader? Who the hell thought that would sell?!), but the fact that there's only 4 announced games using it isn't really a good sign, IMO. Think it really has a future? MKDS online is cool and all, but the four-player limit is sort of disappointing. I think this bottleneck will become a problem for Nintendo in the future, and may eventually be the WFC's downfall.
Oh, and "Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection?" Dumbest name choice ever. People have started to associate Wi-Fi with everything wireless, be it 802.11*, BlueTooth, or RF. And even then, even if that misconception wasn't there, does "WFC" really roll off the tongue as easily as "Xbox Live?" Nintendo needs a catchphrase. I mean, my mother's stopped calling my GCN a Nintendo and started calling it an Xbox.
Post by: ShyGuy on November 30, 2005, 05:09:29 AM
Third parties will see the success of Mario Kart and Animal Crossing and hop on board.
Post by: Mario on November 30, 2005, 05:20:31 AM
I'm very pleased with the online software, MKDS online is incredibly fun, I don't care about the little things like 4 player limit and stuff, the one thing i dislike is how unstable the actual connection is. First, you can go online with wireless routers, yet only a handful are actually supported and most of those require lots of configuration. Then there's the USB Connector, which is frustrating the hell out of me at the moment, and i've seen a LOT of people having problems with it, considering this is Nintendo's official device this is very concerning to me, i'm really hoping everything with that gets ironed out by the time it hits retail, or Nintendos credibility is going to be at risk. Seriously i've NEVER had a major problem with an official Nintendo product until now.
Hotspots are good, i'm impressed with how they've managed that, but when the Revolution comes will we be able to take it to McDonalds? I'm pretty sure there's going to be other ways to connect Revolution to the internet though, at least I hope there will be.
Nintendo WiFi Connection / WFC looks good in text, but saying it feels a bit odd. It's too late to change it now though, at least for the DS.
Oh, and YES I think it will go everywhere, a ton of people are going to use it, though their experiences with it will vary.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 30, 2005, 06:08:14 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2005, 06:16:44 AM
But while linking between a console and a portable and swiping barcodes are largely useless features no one ever asked for online play is something that both gamers and third parties want. This isn't just Nintendo trying to sell us something. This is a feature now considered mandatory for gaming systems. And Nintendo has actually supported it well with a major killer app for the DS. At least on the DS Wi-Fi is here to stay.
The Rev is a different matter. Wi-Fi on a console is nifty but largely useless. No one is going to be bring the Rev to McDonald's. Hot spots for the Rev are a waste of time. The Rev shown at E3 did not have an ethernet jack and Nintendo constantly pushed "Wi-Fi" in their speech. Thus it is a common assumption that the Rev is Wi-Fi only. This makes no sense as much more people have "wired" broadband than wireless. Wi-Fi makes sense on a portable because you carry it everywhere but not on a console. If the Rev is Wi-Fi only then I think there will be problems. But on the DS everything should be fine as is.
Post by: UncleBob on November 30, 2005, 06:24:32 AM
Comeon... Give the e-Reader some kind of respect.
Oh, and aren't "LAN'd together GCNs" and "the infamous GCN broadband adapter" pretty much the same thing? Not quite, but they fall in the same catagory.
Post by: MrAustin on November 30, 2005, 06:30:20 AM
I know wireless networks cost money, but honestly this technology has been around for years, and it's about time that people adopt it. I would much rather have Nintendo build wifi into their next-gen system than having to spend $99 to buy an adapter to make it wireless (ala Xbox ThreeShitty). On the flip side, I don't see why Nintendo would forego the $5 to include a basic 10/100 ethernet port, but it appears that they are going to do just that.
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
Oh, and aren't "LAN'd together GCNs" and "the infamous GCN broadband adapter" pretty much the same thing? Not quite, but they fall in the same catagory.
They utilize the same peripheral, but the GCN did use the broadband adapter for PSO, so it's a different purpose on those two points.
Post by: Pale on November 30, 2005, 07:52:49 AM
1. They need to fix nintendowifi.com, as interesting as it is to know when i logged on last, I'd like a little bit more. Here they should take a page out of what the new X-Box live is doing. We need sig images that say what gamess we are playing and whether or not we are online in real time. Give me access to the server logs and I'll write it for you Nintendo!
2. Match making in mario kart needs some work. There needs to be a buddy list and a way to request games if people are playing other people. It should also be possible for players to log themselves onto the wifi connection, then play single player until one of their friends pop on.
As I said, I'm happy that the technology is in place, and I hope that every game from here on out improves on it. Also, just to show a differing opinion to some that have already been stated, my router works flawlessly.. I never drop connections. Also, after wiring a 100 foot ethernet cable from my upstairs office, through air ducts into my basement, then back up through the floor into my living room for my ps2, I'm looking forward to the Rev being wireless. It ISN'T a pointless feature. (I won't argue that wired shouldn't be an option though.)
Post by: Darkheart on November 30, 2005, 08:01:12 AM
Quote
but the fact that there's only 4 announced games using it isn't really a good sign, IMO
Nope already confirmed that Lost Magic, Bleach Ds, and the new Harvest Moon will support WFC! You have to realize they just probably put together the online devs together this year. Give the developers some time to get it implemented in together. I bet you 10 dollars we have at least 10 more WFC titles announced/shown at E3 next year.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2005, 08:33:43 AM
A lot of us said the same thing about broadband period when Nintendo was initially showing reluctance in taking the Cube online. This very type of arguement is happening right now with the Rev regarding the lack of HD support. Yet if you mention that issue tons of Nintendo defenders pop out of the woodwork to tow the company line and support Nintendo's decision to not include it. So for HD it's "well not enough people use it yet" but with Wi-Fi it's "get with the times and upgrade your technology"? It's pretty dumb for Nintendo to do one thing regarding one issue and then take the exact opposite stance on the other one. Both are unnecessarily restrictive of course. Neither decision, even if they seem to be polar opposites, is even remotely flexible or user friendly.
Post by: Pale on November 30, 2005, 09:06:16 AM
To try and get into Nintendo's head a bit, I think that they decided to jump on this term WiFi because they feel it is a buzzword that will help them sell their online plan. MS doesn't have WiFi! There is a lot of ignorance in this thinking, but it does have some grounds from a marketing standpoint. That said, there is a difference between only talking about WiFi in an attempt at differentiation, and only including WiFi in the device in an attempt at differentiation. My thinking is that Nintendo is taking the former approach rather that the later. I bet we will see wired ethernet in the final model, but Nintendo's ads won't ever mention it because they will be pushing the WiFi connection brand (no matter how bad of a brand name some may think it is, it does have a distinct differentiation when comparing it to X-Box Live) as a way to get online with both your DS and your Rev.
So again, I'm gonna ask Ian to stop spewing forth that the Rev won't include wired, because no one knows for sure. If it actually comes out ONLY wireless, I will write a 1,000 word essay on why Ian is always correct.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2005, 10:07:12 AM
I think that's likely too. Plus Nintendo just spent the last generation bashing "online" to try to convince their fans why it was a good idea that they didn't support it. They would look like hypocrites if they suddenly starting pushing "online". If they push "Wi-Fi" then it's something "different". Like this is "better" and is what Nintendo was waiting for.
So it could just be a buzzword. The reason I'm assuming that the Rev will be Wi-Fi only is because it's a stupid restriction and sadly Nintendo has a reputation for enforcing stupid restrictions for no good reason. Hell they're doing it with the no HD support so it's not like there's strong evidence to suggest Nintendo has changed in that sense.
Post by: Pale on November 30, 2005, 10:29:55 AM
This thinking, though frustrating, has allowed Nintendo to weather the storm (which some may argue is caused by this thinking) financially, which isn't all bad.
Post by: Plugabugz on November 30, 2005, 10:35:12 AM
If after 2 weeks after Tony Hawk launches, [and almost 7 days after] Mario Kart this is all we get, then I don't understand why they bothered launching in the first place.
I specificially decided to wait because I wanted to find information on whether my router is compatible, and coming soon for at least 3 weeks doesn't help me.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2005, 10:56:47 AM
Yeah but Nintendo themselves doesn't have to make HD games. They just have to have the Rev support it so that third parties can use it if they want to. That's the big difference between how Nintendo should do things and how they do. When Nintendo doesn't want to use something they don't just not use it. They decide that NO ONE will and should use it and that's reason number one why they're in last place and Sony's in first. It's stupid because Nintendo's whole fall from being the market leader is directly related to their "we decide what's best for everyone" attitude. So to continue with this attitude means Nintendo hasn't learned from their mistakes and not learning from your mistakes is stupid, particularly when you've had almost ten years to do so.
The effect on Nintendo for including HD support with their console and putting an ethernet jack on it is minimal. Their inclusion does add to their hardware costs but does not affect their game development and will not increase their game development costs. They don't suffer from including these options but gamers and developers do suffer from their exclusion. Thus they are needless stupid restrictions.
Post by: UncleBob on November 30, 2005, 11:00:36 AM
Post by: vudu on November 30, 2005, 11:28:20 AM
Post by: UncleBob on November 30, 2005, 11:56:11 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 30, 2005, 12:56:55 PM
Start quoting some prices and I'll listen to your unfounded crap.
Post by: Shecky on November 30, 2005, 04:28:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The Rev is a different matter. Wi-Fi on a console is nifty but largely useless. No one is going to be bring the Rev to McDonald's. Hot spots for the Rev are a waste of time. The Rev shown at E3 did not have an ethernet jack and Nintendo constantly pushed "Wi-Fi" in their speech. Thus it is a common assumption that the Rev is Wi-Fi only. This makes no sense as much more people have "wired" broadband than wireless. Wi-Fi makes sense on a portable because you carry it everywhere but not on a console. If the Rev is Wi-Fi only then I think there will be problems. But on the DS everything should be fine as is.
This statement makes absolutely no f'ing sense.
"WiFi" is not a _useless_ addition. You don't have to travel to "hotspots" to use it, and Nintendo is never going to promote hotspots to bring your Revolution too. Plain and simple, WiFi is a marketing name for a very useful piece of technology that allows you to network devices without the need to run a cable between them. It is more versatile than a wired only solution. Your statement of "If the Rev is Wi-Fi only then I think there will be problems" is a complete handwaving. Clearly, offering both wireless and wired connections offers the greatest flexibility to the end user, but if you could only have one, then wireless would be the way to go. People don't see the cost of slapping on a NIC card to each console as a big thing, but when your making millions of these units it adds up *quick*. Nintendo might feel that it's a safe corner to shave, and I can't say that I'd blame them. To many people the cost of running a wire, is either impossible or very close to cost of installing a wireless solution (check your local store for the cost of a 50' ethernet cable). Furthermore the system at E3 was guaranteed to be a prototype and the existence or lack of ports means nothing. Nintendo may decide to include an ethernet jack for the final build, thus rendering this whole discussion moot.
My point is that built in wireless access is a good thing and by NO means "largely useless."
Personally I'm disappointed with the Xbox 360's lack of wireless networking. To me it's a cheap way of lessening the cost for Microsoft and would require me to do what someone has mentioned already, buy a wireless bridge (which, by the way, are even more outrageously marked up than the cost of ethernet cables! )
Post by: Renny on November 30, 2005, 04:42:06 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 30, 2005, 04:47:56 PM
Post by: Shecky on November 30, 2005, 04:50:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
This thread is silly and pointless.
I agree
Post by: ruby_onix on November 30, 2005, 06:19:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
However, if the Revolution "supports" HD, then Nintendo has to make the hardware powerful enough where it can actually take advantage of the HD. Which means a higher cost. It doesn't matter if Nintendo doesn't program any HD games - if Nintendo throws in lackluster HD support (like, say, GameCube's online plan) then it'd be useless.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/rubyonix/main/project6420051124045339653zm.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/rubyonix/main/project6420051124050007929gn.jpg
Not possible on Rev's Virtual Console.
Only 4 Xbox360.
Post by: Jensen on November 30, 2005, 07:08:37 PM
Quote
The Rev is a different matter. Wi-Fi on a console is nifty but largely useless. No one is going to be bring the Rev to McDonald's. Hot spots for the Rev are a waste of time. The Rev shown at E3 did not have an ethernet jack and Nintendo constantly pushed "Wi-Fi" in their speech. Thus it is a common assumption that the Rev is Wi-Fi only. This makes no sense as much more people have "wired" broadband than wireless. Wi-Fi makes sense on a portable because you carry it everywhere but not on a console. If the Rev is Wi-Fi only then I think there will be problems. But on the DS everything should be fine as is.
I think more people have wireless than have a 40ft cat5 cable running from their computer modem to the console by the TV in the living room. And for people who have neither(which is most people), wireless is likely the cheaper and simpler option.
And wifi does add portability too! Bring your WiFi Revo to your friends house for a low hassle LAN party.
And it means no wires connectivity between the DS and the Revolution.
Post by: wandering on November 30, 2005, 08:18:26 PM
Quote
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/rubyonix/main/project6420051124045339653zm.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/rubyonix/main/project6420051124050007929gn.jpg
Not possible on Rev's Virtual Console.
Only 4 Xbox360.
Pretty slick.....but I still feel n64 games look better in lower resolutions. (Am I the only one who couldn't stand that they upped the resolution in the cube oot port?)
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The Rev is a different matter. Wi-Fi on a console is nifty but largely useless. No one is going to be bring the Rev to McDonald's.
Eh....I'd prefer it if Nintendo included an ethernet jack, but, regardless, one will be sold seperatley. Besides, wifi isn't useless in households....as Nintendo has pointed out, most people couldn't/wouldn't want to run an ethernet cable into their living room. That's not to say that there aren't some people out there who would.... but Ninty's strategy this time around seems to be to keep costs low for the average consumer by leaving out/charging extra for niche features. Want DVD playback? Sure, that's just 20 bucks extra. Want to enjoy a delicious mario ice cream bar while playing revolution? Sure, that's just an extra 5 bucks. For everyone else, the console gets to be dirt cheap.
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2005, 08:42:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JensenQuote
The Rev is a different matter. Wi-Fi on a console is nifty but largely useless. No one is going to be bring the Rev to McDonald's. Hot spots for the Rev are a waste of time. The Rev shown at E3 did not have an ethernet jack and Nintendo constantly pushed "Wi-Fi" in their speech. Thus it is a common assumption that the Rev is Wi-Fi only. This makes no sense as much more people have "wired" broadband than wireless. Wi-Fi makes sense on a portable because you carry it everywhere but not on a console. If the Rev is Wi-Fi only then I think there will be problems. But on the DS everything should be fine as is.
I think more people have wireless than have a 40ft cat5 cable running from their computer modem to the console by the TV in the living room. And for people who have neither(which is most people), wireless is likely the cheaper and simpler option.
And wifi does add portability too! Bring your WiFi Revo to your friends house for a low hassle LAN party.
And it means no wires connectivity between the DS and the Revolution.
Quoted for truth.
HD gives you a simple visual improvement in graphics.
WiFi gives you tangible ease-of-use and low-barrier-to-entry benefits.
I think it's perfectly fine that Nintendo is eschewing the traditional cabled view of broadband that was last generation and is going for the no-strings-attached WiFi connection. Heck, 45% of Kart users have already gone online, and that numbers gonna grow as soon as my dongle arrives in the mail. Even for those who don't have broadband access, the closest McDonalds/hotspot is right around the corner.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Plugabugz on December 01, 2005, 03:53:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
And yet, still no one gives my e-Reader the love it deserves...
Or the - immediately more important - lack of WFC in Europe as it affects us here and now.
I can't even begin to discuss the lack of, introduction of future features when some people are going out buying DS' to go online, find they irritatingly don't work, and then go to the website which even more irritatingly don't work.
I'm even seeing adverts for Mario Kart DS here, see here, which becomes totally redundant because the website is listed as a source to get more information.
The magnitude of Nintendo's stupidity sometimes makes me wonder whether they are run by light bulbs.
Post by: UncleBob on December 01, 2005, 04:06:14 AM
Geeze... Nintendo must hate you guys. Did you pick on Nintendo when y'all were little or what?
I would assume that imported copies of MKDS would work, correct? (I know it'd be a pain, I'm not really suggesting it, just kind of a technical question)
Post by: Plugabugz on December 01, 2005, 04:14:32 AM
The website has been "coming soon" for about 3 weeks now.
Post by: Pale on December 01, 2005, 04:30:15 AM
But anyway, it's already been said Ian, but in order to support HD Nintendo would need to do significantly more with their hardware besides add the outputs. This is the reason why, on paper, the 360 and ps3 will look like significantly better machines, but on a standard def tv, most people won't notice the difference.
Post by: Mario on December 01, 2005, 04:36:13 AM
Post by: UncleBob on December 01, 2005, 05:41:33 AM
My router nor a friend of mine's router was even on the list... Both worked perfectly.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the list of routers - I've seen quite a few complaints about routers not being listed...
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on December 10, 2005, 03:24:29 AM
Quote
The Rev is a different matter. Wi-Fi on a console is nifty but largely useless. No one is going to be bring the Rev to McDonald's. Hot spots for the Rev are a waste of time. The Rev shown at E3 did not have an ethernet jack and Nintendo constantly pushed "Wi-Fi" in their speech. Thus it is a common assumption that the Rev is Wi-Fi only. This makes no sense as much more people have "wired" broadband than wireless. Wi-Fi makes sense on a portable because you carry it everywhere but not on a console. If the Rev is Wi-Fi only then I think there will be problems. But on the DS everything should be fine as is.
What's to stop them from building router functionality into the Rev?
Post by: noIinteam on December 10, 2005, 07:15:06 AM
