Post by: Rhoq on November 22, 2005, 03:11:27 AM
I hadn't really seen any screenshots or video of XBox 360 games, because I just didn't care to. I figured now that the release was finally upon us, I would check it out to see if it really was the gaming world's "second coming".
I watched a bit of G4's "Countdown to XBox 360" show last night. At midnight, when the first 360s were sold - they began showing reviews of the launch titles. G4 was gracious enough to point out, during it's review of Madden NFL 2006, that even though the game looks good, it comes nowhere near what those next-gen renders looked like that EA had released a year or two ago. As a matter of fact - every XBox 360 game they showed was unimpressive, looking no more different than what the original XBox and Nintendo GameCube are already capable of. The only game that truly looks remarkable is Project Gotham Racing 3.
There are 2 games this generation which look as good as what the 360 is delivering: the GameCube version of Resident Evil 4 and the X-Box/GameCube versions of Fight Night: Round 2. Don't believe the hype, the 360 is not delivering the future, only an alernate take on the present.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 22, 2005, 03:29:45 AM
Post by: attackslug on November 22, 2005, 03:49:48 AM
Still it's true, the games don't look as good as they were hyped to. But then again, remember how bad first generation PS2 games looked compared to current ones? On average, they weren't much better than Dreamcast, and in some cases, N64 games. Once developers have a bit more time with the system, we will be likely to start seeing games that surpass most PC titles.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on November 22, 2005, 04:03:45 AM
I've seen the xbox 360 demos at best buy, meh, it doesn't impress me, I agree with what Ninty's been saying graphics are nearing that ceiling where thye won't get any noticibly better, improving gameplay and immersion is key to the future of gaming now.
Post by: Rhoq on November 22, 2005, 05:03:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
As I've said many times before, this is the first generation ever where I just haven't been impressed by the visuals...
Bill, I'm beginning to agree with you.
Quote
Originally posted by: attackslug
Don't kid yourself, the visuals of the Xbox360 are much better than anything on current systems. RE4 looks damn nice, as does Fight Night but they are still not on par with the new Xbox. Don't be so quick to judge if you "haven't seen any videos or screenshots" yet. Give it a try at walmart or on a friend's fancy HDTV, and save any comments till then.
I made my judgement after seeing the video reviews on G4 last night. (The point of my initial post was that I hadn't seen any screenshots or video until last night). I'm not impressed with the system and I have no desire to seek out a 360 demo kiosk and give it a try.
Post by: NotSoStu on November 22, 2005, 05:36:55 AM
And meanwhile, what does Nintendo have planned for its consoles? Twilight Princess and the promise of Metroid Prime 3 and SSB Revolution. Nintendo had better reveal some information about Revolution's games, and fast, or they're going to go under.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 22, 2005, 05:45:25 AM
I totally agree that the Xbox 360 looks better than current-gen games. I also totally agree that this is the first generation where the graphics haven't impressed me. They are improved, there's no doubt that the current systems can't do shading a lighting as nicely and dynamically as the Xbox 360; there's no doubt that you can't render a crowd with 1000 detailed people in it on the current systems; there's no doubt that many of the textures on 360 are amazing. The graphics have improved a lot.
The problem is that those are mostly stupid little details. I saw a 360 at Future Shop last week, and the only way I could tell it was a 360 at a glance was from the high-res graphics. Often to appreciate the improvements on the 360 you have to purposely admire them. Ooh, look at all the blades of grass! Wow, that crowd looks so realistic! Too bad I'm losing a race while I stop to check all these details out! It's improved, but previous generations made truly useful improvements (getting four-player games to run at a smooth framerate on the GameCube, rendering 3D graphics in real time on the N64) where the Xbox 360 is pure eye candy, and not very dramatic eye candy at that.
That's not to say the Xbox 360 is bad, or that Microsoft has done a bad job. It is to say that we're approaching the ceiling on graphical improvements, and in my opinion, the Xbox 360 is overpriced for the amount of improvement it has to offer. If I were buying a new console this Christmas, I'd make it a regular Xbox or a PS2. The games are just as much fun, the only thing I'm losing is graphics, and I would save at least $320 CDN, since there's no way I'll buy a 360 without the hard drive.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 22, 2005, 06:28:54 AM
Right now I would say it's a waste of money to buy an Xbox 360. But this time last year I would have considered it a total waste of money to buy a DS. Microsoft still has time to deliver when it counts. In comparison Sony and Nintendo pretty much have to fire on all cylinders right from the get-go.
Plus we haven't even seen a Rev screenshot yet so don't be dooming MS when Nintendo literally has nothing yet. MS has a real product in stores and all Nintendo has is a vague concept. The X360 is already kicking the Rev's ass by default.
Post by: mantidor on November 22, 2005, 06:37:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Plus we haven't even seen a Rev screenshot yet so don't be dooming MS when Nintendo literally has nothing yet. MS has a real product in stores and all Nintendo has is a vague concept. The X360 is already kicking the Rev's ass by default.
I think no one is comparing its graphics to the Rev except you, and no one is saying that Rev graphics will be "better" than xbox's.
Microsoft's hype was about the graphics and they failed, end of story! Revs graphics are irrelevant here...
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 22, 2005, 06:53:15 AM
I gave it a try on a fancy HDTV. The graphics are extremely unimpressive and I'm sure they could be done on the current gen with very little downgrade.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on November 22, 2005, 07:30:28 AM
-eli b.
Post by: Darkheart on November 22, 2005, 07:42:54 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 22, 2005, 07:59:40 AM
Revolution probably won't impress me that much graphically...I will definitely be excited to see next-gen Nintendo franchises, but I don't expect to be blown away by the graphics. The thing is, that doesn't matter, because I'm looking forward to Revolution for something besides graphics. I wouldn't pay $400 CDN or even $300 CDN for Revolution if it was the same thing as the 360, but I will pay those prices if they can make some great new games that take advantage of the controller. I do expect some graphical improvements but it doesn't need to be as good as the Xbox 360 to make me happy.
Post by: mantidor on November 22, 2005, 08:26:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BiLdItUp1
Umm...mantidor, Ian never said anything about graphics in that quote, you just took it out of context and tried to bash him. His point was we shouldn't be all 'MS is doomed' yet, considering that Nintendo has only shown a concept so far and x360 devs could push out real system sellers before Rev/PS3 launch.
-eli b.
screenshots isnt graphics?
I really think the topic of discussion here is underwhelming graphics in the xbox, did I read wrong? people are complaining about gameplay on the xbox? the form factor? the controller? xbox live? I dont think so.
And I wasnt bashing Ian, I dont know how you came up with that! did I call him names or something?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 22, 2005, 08:44:42 AM
Yes screenshots are graphics but they're also information and that's what I meant. We know so little about the Rev that we haven't even seen a screenshot yet. Screenshots are usually one of the first things you see so to not even have a screenshot means we don't know much at all.
So predicting any sort of doom for the X360 is kind of premature when the console most of us are looking forward to is not much more than glorified vaporware at this point. I know as much about the Rev right now as I did about the Phantom. How do we know that the Rev will not also be a waste of money at launch? We don't know the price yet and have no real idea what games are coming out for it or how they play.
Post by: mantidor on November 22, 2005, 09:09:49 AM
the only one mentioning that is you
Post by: cubist on November 22, 2005, 09:22:30 AM
Back on topic: I wasn't too impressed with the visuals either. Of course, we are still in the first generation of XBOX360 titles. Right now its looking more like XBOX180...
Post by: attackslug on November 22, 2005, 11:10:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"Don't kid yourself, the visuals of the Xbox360 are much better than anything on current systems. RE4 looks damn nice, as does Fight Night but they are still not on par with the new Xbox. Don't be so quick to judge if you "haven't seen any videos or screenshots" yet. Give it a try at walmart or on a friend's fancy HDTV, and save any comments till then."
I gave it a try on a fancy HDTV. The graphics are extremely unimpressive and I'm sure they could be done on the current gen with very little downgrade.
Personally, I think the graphics are pretty nice, but certainly not as earth shattering as one would hope given the technical specs of the machine. Again, I think we will see some very impressive things from the Xbox360 once the developers get a better hang of it and start figuring out how to properly utilize the second processor.
For the time being, however, it's tough to see the system as being worth all that cash for games that are marginally better than what we've been playing for the past two years. I'm not sold on any of the three systems until I can actually experience (good) gameplay that would simply not be possible on current systems, which is why the Rev has most of my attention at the moment.
Post by: Uglydot on November 22, 2005, 11:19:35 AM
So I guess I am not really dissapointed in the Xbox, hell, it's been out on freakin day. I will wait for the games to come out to really form an oppinion on it.
Post by: stevey on November 22, 2005, 11:50:58 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 22, 2005, 12:36:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: cubist
Back on topic: I wasn't too impressed with the visuals either. Of course, we are still in the first generation of XBOX360 titles. Right now its looking more like XBOX180...
That argument is BARELY relevant here. I remember Rogue Squadron coming out at launch and it being one of the most beautiful games on any system.....and guess what... it still is. Also, WaveRace came out and showed us water graphics and physics like no other. I have yet to see a game with such beautiful water. The only game that comes close is Sunshine.
The reason why the argument is BARELY relevant and not just irrelevant is because systems are getting more complicated. The Xbox 360 is most likely a bitch to program for. I also heard that all the launch games don't even use a multi-core setup. That's the only reason I'm not judging the 360 graphic wise. First generation is actually a valid argument here.
However, I'm almost positive that when Metriod Prime 3 comes out, it will rival any games graphically (in art and technicallity) that proceed it. Just like RS did with the GC.
Post by: kennyb27 on November 22, 2005, 12:56:20 PM
"The Xbox 360 is new in many ways: not only does it have impressive graphics, but you can play your DVDs and even CDs on it, you can play online and you can view videos from your computer on your television screen!"
I couldn't believe this guy. He was genuinly impressed by this. The current Xbox, some $250 less (USD) has all those "features" except one. It made me think how right Nintendo could be if they pull it off with the Revolution, they could create something that would trully change something about the industry.
Post by: IceCold on November 22, 2005, 01:39:22 PM
QuoteYou meant to switch those around right?
But then again, remember how bad first generation PS2 games looked compared to current ones? On average, they weren't much better than Dreamcast, and in some cases, N64 games.
Anyway, the Xbox 360? More like the Xbox 3-SUCKS-ty!!1 hahaha...
Uhh, yeah. Now that we've got that over with, I'm also quite unimpressed with the 360. You can't jump from 2-D to 3-D again, so now graphics are just becoming less and less important. Like someone said, who cares if, in a racing game, the crowd is as detailed as the car? Graphics don't help, they just add a glossy coat to a game, which wears off quite easily. And to top it off, the graphics on the 360 aren't even that much better! Sure, if you look closely, you can see that they're improved, but it's getting harder and harder to wow someone with graphics. Soon, art direction will be the only important thing.
And I'm not sold on the "HD Era" either. Using a HD TV for games is like getting your first pair of glasses when you're at -0.75 or -1.00 dioptres. Yes, it's clear, but suddenly you see so much more detail that you notice things that you don't want to see. Like when you sweep the floor
. It's the same with games... HD will bring out a lot of texturing flaws in games. It has the potential to be an ugly affair.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 22, 2005, 05:41:09 PM
I'm not talking about just the games, but the whole system. It felt so clean and sophisticated. For example, when you hold down the "X" logo in the center of the controler, it flawlessly searches for controllers and whether to hook up to the number one spot. Then it signifies it's spot with a quatere of the circle being lit up. It was brilliantly intuitive. The whole system is like that. The controller is VERY comfortable. The addition of shoulder buttons and lack of white and black buttons is a major plus. That's about it though. Apart from that, it's just an S "+."
Now, about the games. I only played Call of Duty. The first thing you'll notice about the game is the textures. The textures are definitely impressive, but sadly that's reallly the only thing going for it graphically. The textures basically accounted for everything "cool" in the game. I liked how enemies were hard to see due to high detail. Also, the players guns and jackets are nice. That's about it though. I guess some structural modeling was well-done, but again....strictly speaking about graphics, that's it. I was dissapointed about all the enemy charachters looking exactly the same. I was expecting some diversity (even goldeneye and PD had diversity).
One thing that was impressive was the immersion factor. It seemed like a SH!TLOAD of things were going on. There's a bunch of visual and audio distractions. Actually, the most impressive thing about the entire game was the audio. It felt nuts. I heard rifles blazing and I could tell if it was up-close or far away, behind me or in front of me. It was great. Honestly though, textures and audio can only do so much. As soon as you get past the "wow, this is crazy" aspect, it feels like all the rest of the games made this gen. And even more so, it felt like I was doing the same thing over and over again (however, it is a war game so i'll let it slide).
All in all, I had fun (though the game was more rinse and repeat then I would of liked). I definitely wouldn't pay 400, or even 300 for it. I had much higher hopes only considering the graphics for next gen games. Now I'm even more hyped towards REV gameplay possibilities. As a core system though (menu and all), the Xbox 360 nails it.
Post by: BigJim on November 22, 2005, 06:49:33 PM
I have to give credit to Nintendo for calling it... they said graphics wouldn't matter, that better graphics were "just the cost of entry". They're right. The market is getting harder to impress and growing in sophistication faster than the graphics alone can keep up with it. "More of the same" may become a real detriment.
I think we really will need a big change. I hope the market understands Nintendo's direction before Xbox 720 gets the chance to copy it.
Post by: Uglydot on November 22, 2005, 07:51:52 PM
Post by: Grant10k on November 22, 2005, 08:45:36 PM
Project gothem looked cool and all, but it could have used some more anti aliasing, there be jaggies all over the car. Most of the graphical improvements seemed to be off in the distance, like they put more work into tall buildings a couple streets over. The only things that really impressed me were the left and right side mirrors actually work (and break if you smash your car enough), you can look left and right in the vehicle (you don't need the Xbox 360's power to do this but it was a nifty throw away feature) and if you use the in-vehicle camera, the driver's hand actually moves to the shifter to shift the car.
Need for speed: Most wanted looked just like the PC counterpart, the only diffrence is that one of my co-workers had an iPod plugged in so we were listining to his sound track instead of the ingame music. Apparently, you can push that XBOX button in the middle of the controller and tell any game to use your MP3 player soundtrack instead of the in game sound track. I really wish revolution will force EVERY game to use custom sound tracks, I really want to play Metroid with the top gun theme "Danger Zone" playing in the background instead of the perfectly tuned ambient music that good games offer </sarcasm>
By the way, it took three employees like, 2 mintues to figure out how to turn on and connect the wireless controller to the Xbox 360 (I got to play first because I figured out how to turn the controller on) It's not quite as intuitive as the wavebird is to connect.
Post by: Talon on November 22, 2005, 09:56:04 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 22, 2005, 10:54:02 PM
Post by: BigJim on November 23, 2005, 03:07:43 AM
Some sample materials.
Apparently MS sux at teh hardwarz.
Post by: cubist on November 23, 2005, 04:54:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742Quote
Originally posted by: cubist
Back on topic: I wasn't too impressed with the visuals either. Of course, we are still in the first generation of XBOX360 titles. Right now its looking more like XBOX180...
That argument is BARELY relevant here. I remember Rogue Squadron coming out at launch and it being one of the most beautiful games on any system.....and guess what... it still is. Also, WaveRace came out and showed us water graphics and physics like no other. I have yet to see a game with such beautiful water. The only game that comes close is Sunshine.
The reason why the argument is BARELY relevant and not just irrelevant is because systems are getting more complicated. The Xbox 360 is most likely a bitch to program for. I also heard that all the launch games don't even use a multi-core setup. That's the only reason I'm not judging the 360 graphic wise. First generation is actually a valid argument here.
However, I'm almost positive that when Metriod Prime 3 comes out, it will rival any games graphically (in art and technicallity) that proceed it. Just like RS did with the GC.
There was barely any content in that statement to begin with. 2 short sentences supported by another in an attempt to crack a joke. If anything, you've just supported my statement. In terms of your Rogue Squadron 3 and WR: BS point, I disagree completely. Wind Waker, RE: Remake, RE: Zero, RE4, and Rare's second generation entry of Starfox Adventures were all a step up in graphics. True, Rogue Squadron 3 and WR: BS were beautiful titles and still look good to this day, but they were eventually eclipsed by future GCN generations.
On a side note: Let me guess...you're one of the few that have the progressive scan mode running on both those first generations titles?
BTW, I like your impressions of the 360.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 23, 2005, 09:10:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grant10k
Ok, I played this Xbox 360 thing for about an hour while loosers were standing in the cold rain outside waiting for midnight to show up so they could get thersQuote
Yeah those "losers" will probaly be getting 1000-1500$ on ebay about now. They will be the ones laughing all the way to the bank, and that does not seem to me to be a loser!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 23, 2005, 11:34:04 AM
Brilliant financial taktiks.
