Post by: Mario on October 11, 2005, 06:14:47 AM
Donkey Kong is a lot more... "mature" than Mario, yet he still has the same mainstream appeal. He hasn't really been in the mainstream limelight at all recently since Donkey Kong Country, Jungle Beat and Konga were ignored because they were on GameCube and had fancy accessories holding them back, DK64 was pretty popular, but not enough. Thus it would be seen as a nice "comeback" of a classic gaming icon.
I think if they could make a Donkey Kong game for launch, which is accessable, and achieves the excellent "simple controls / complex gameplay" that Jungle Beat accomplished, it would be absolutely huge and the perfect thing to kick off the Revolutions image.
(Mario would also still be there, in Super Smash Bros 3.)
Also, gameplay possibilities! Tokyo EAD did an amazing job with just two buttons on the bongos, imagine what they could pull off with the Revolutoin controller? I just thought about it and my head exploded, this could be the greatest game ever.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 11, 2005, 07:10:52 AM
Not to say I don't want the game (which I really, REALLY do), but I'm sure Tokyo EAD is hard at work trying to make Donkey Kong Rev even better than Jungle Beat, and I don't see them coming out with the game within the launch window of the console, even less seeing them use it as a replacement for Mario...
Post by: Darkheart on October 11, 2005, 07:31:09 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 11, 2005, 08:13:56 AM
Donkey Kong will work fine if there's a must-own game made with the franchise (like DKC way back when). But just Donkey Kong the franchise won't mean squat just like the Mario the franchise wouldn't mean squat if it wasn't attached to a killer game. Luigi's Mansion technically was the Mario franchise. It just wasn't an effective flagship title because it was short.
Nintendo could launch with a totally brand new franchise and it would probably be an effective flagship title provided the game itself was an easy GOTY contender, showed off the Rev concepts well, and was marketed well. The important thing is to have a must-own launch title that is marketed good enough that people actually know it's a must-own.
Post by: animecyberrat on October 11, 2005, 08:43:54 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 11, 2005, 09:33:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
But just Donkey Kong the franchise won't mean squat just like the Mario the franchise wouldn't mean squat if it wasn't attached to a killer game.
Believe me, I have full confidence that Donkey Kong Rev will be a fantastic game...
Post by: foolish03 on October 11, 2005, 09:45:53 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 11, 2005, 10:34:15 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 11, 2005, 02:46:29 PM
Killer Apps do not have to be franchise games, but often times they ARE franchise games.
SNES opened up with Super Mario World a franchise sequel that showed the world what next generation gaming should be.
Nintendo 64 opened the world to new ideas and concepts with a franchise game Mario 64.
Nintendo is correct to go with franchise games to launch the Revolution, because people are comfortable with games and characters they know.
Revolution Mario will introduce the world to a new way to play games, and it will be huge and it will be more successful as Mario doing this, than say a new IP unknown showing us the new light.
Classic loved characters always do well.
Nintendo will launch with a launch list that combines the fimilar with the unknown and that is the safest bet.
Mario
Metroid
Smash Brothers (note pretty much every popular Nintendo character)
Donkey Kong is becoming a concept tester character. He is being used greatly to create new types of games with a character we are fimilar enough to try the game out with...but not an A++ character so that Nintendo doesn't risk tarnishing the name of the classics.
I love Donkey Kong and I can't wait to see what Nintendo does with him in the future, but launch game he won't be.
Question though: What ever happened to Kirby for the Gamecube? Could this game be revamped for the Revolution launch? We do know Hal Labs loves to experiment with new game concepts, and this game could be pushed back to take advantage of the new controller and create an interesting platformer.
Post by: King of Twitch on October 11, 2005, 02:52:46 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 11, 2005, 03:07:53 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 11, 2005, 03:59:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
Donkey Kong hasn't been proven to be good yet in 3D. too risky.. too risky..
Who said anything about 3D? I want another 2D Jungle Beat-ish title...
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on October 11, 2005, 03:59:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
Donkey Kong hasn't been proven to be good yet in 3D. too risky.. too risky..
Eh? What about DK 64? That was at least acceptable, I think...
Post by: King of Twitch on October 11, 2005, 04:25:34 PM
Post by: Zach on October 11, 2005, 05:17:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
Donkey Kong hasn't been proven to be good yet in 3D. too risky.. too risky..
Eh? What about DK 64? That was at least acceptable, I think...
even though DK 64 was rendered in 3D, it was still a 2D game because you could not move on the z axis
edit: never mind, I can be a real spaz sometimes, I was thinking about DKC for some reason, sorry
Post by: Mario on October 11, 2005, 05:38:02 PM
Ian, you're right the game has to be of exceptional quality for it to even matter, while killer apps have selling power on their own, when attached to the right franchise it can have even bigger results. I don't think Mario Kart would have been so huge if it was Joe Kart. Let's just say for this case Mario 128 and Donkey Kong will both be of the same quality as a game. The point i'm trying to make is that Donkey Kong might make more of an impact Mario would. A few years ago I was excited that Nintendo hadn't released any Donkey Kong games in while, then they ruined it with the DKC GBA ports and Konga, but in general he's still been out of the limelight so it would be something new to most people as opposed to "another Mario". They could avoid the "just another Mario game" label by making that Mario game so unbelievably good, but i'm just thinking about DK at the moment, he came to me in a dream!
Quote
Even though he came first, Donkey Kong doesn't have nearly the amount of mainstream as you think he does...I still come across people who are all "Who is that big monkey?" when playing Mario Party or some other game that includes him...
Lies!
He's Donkey Kong! DONKEY KONG! Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
Please, ladies, no need to fight. They can all be launch titles.
They can't all be because they'd eat into each others sales and there's always shortages at launch.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 11, 2005, 06:03:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
DK hasn't had an epic in awhile. Throw Kirby into the Beat games. We don't.. need him anymore.
Bull! Jungle Beat is far more epic than any other game DK has been in! >=O
Post by: Mario on October 11, 2005, 06:07:25 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 11, 2005, 06:32:44 PM
Who cares? There's only going to be like ten games on the console period at launch. I think it's more important to have a good launch lineup. I just want options and variety. What difference do sales make to me or any Rev owner? Anything to do with sales or profits don't mean sh!t to anyone who isn't a Nintendo shareholder so it's a lame excuse particularly when the competition never uses it.
One problem with Donkey Kong right now is that like Star Fox it's kind of in limbo. What is Donkey Kong right now? Is it a platformer? A rhythm game? Which developer is it "assigned" to? Before it was Rare's assignment and we had an idea what to expect. I think first Nintendo has to establish what Donkey Kong is so that people don't expect DKC and get some bongo game instead.
And I'll say now that another Jungle Beat would be a poor choice for a flagship title. It's a little too quirky. I think a platformer would have more general appeal and would probably make for a longer game which is important for a launch title.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 11, 2005, 06:35:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
One problem with Donkey Kong right now is that like Star Fox it's kind of in limbo. What is Donkey Kong right now? Is it a platformer? A rhythm game? Which developer is it "assigned" to? Before it was Rare's assignment and we had an idea what to expect. I think first Nintendo has to establish what Donkey Kong is so that people don't expect DKC and get some bongo game instead.
Eh? Just because there's a spinoff the series is in limbo? Is Mario in limbo because there are Mario spinoffs? No way...The main Donkey Kong games are now in the capable hands of EAD's Tokyo branch...
Post by: Ian Sane on October 11, 2005, 06:37:42 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 11, 2005, 06:39:39 PM
Post by: Mario on October 11, 2005, 06:44:24 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 11, 2005, 07:37:09 PM
Post by: MrMojoRising on October 12, 2005, 12:47:46 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 12, 2005, 05:22:17 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 12, 2005, 07:39:14 AM
It doesn't but if they relied on a Donkey Kong game to be the big launch title then they have to make sure people's expectations and what is actually delivered are similar. Luigi's Mansion got flack because it was short but I also read several reviews where it was clear the reviewer saw a Mario character in a flagship and assumed they would get a platformer and thus were really disappointed. "Hey there's no jump button. WTF?"
When it comes to a big Donkey Kong killer app people are probably going to expect something like Rare used to make. They would probably expect an epic platformer, most likely 3D since that's what's more expected these days. Jungle Beat is not nearly as popular as the Rare DK games so that sort of design would throw people off and they would probably be disappointed.
Plus Jungle Beat is the type of game that gets 7s and 8s from reviewers. The flagship title should get 9s and 10s. My concern mostly has to do with the fact that none of the Cube DK games would be suitable as a flagship title. They're all quirky second string titles that sell to the established userbase but would not be effective system sellers. If they want to do something out of nowhere for a DK flagship title that's fine and could work but Konga and Jungle Beat are not it.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 12, 2005, 07:55:08 AM
but... ian's right the flagship needs to use the new controller to the fullest, and that implicates a 3d game.
Post by: vudu on October 12, 2005, 09:20:55 AM
QuoteAccording to Nintendo the game is still set for a GameCube release. No release date has been set.
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Question though: What ever happened to Kirby for the Gamecube? Could this game be revamped for the Revolution launch? We do know Hal Labs loves to experiment with new game concepts, and this game could be pushed back to take advantage of the new controller and create an interesting platformer.
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 12, 2005, 02:22:36 PM
In the end, Nintendo games will sale if they are good. The numbers won't be great at first if there is more variety but over time all games will sell well, and even better if the launch attracts more people.
I do think that franchise games are Killer Apps.
Halo was a first person shooter, but it became popular and became a killer app.
Now Halo is a franchise and is still MS's top killer app for the new system.
Grand Theft Auto is a franchise and is now killer app material.
As is Final Fantasy, Madden, Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, and many many more.
The name recognition is important. It alone can make a good game GREAT (in sales)
and if its a GREAT game then it makes it incredible.
Legacy franchises are even more important. Franchises that have a record of consistant quality are legacy because people recognize the name and understand the quality they are getting in the game.
A new IP is not needed for a killer app, just something recognizeable that a GOOD game.
Post by: King of Twitch on October 12, 2005, 04:26:05 PM
Post by: Mario on October 12, 2005, 05:56:31 PM
Post by: MrMojoRising on October 12, 2005, 06:19:52 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 12, 2005, 10:51:57 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 13, 2005, 08:00:26 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 13, 2005, 08:09:26 AM
Teaming them up would be a pretty cool idea. Maybe they could do it DKC style where you tag between two characters. If the two of them both had different abilities that could add an extra level of depth to a 3D platformer. It would be kind of like DK64 with the ability to switch the characters on the fly and none of that "this character can only get this colour of bananas" BS. And of course double team moves are a given.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 13, 2005, 11:43:56 AM
Of course they could have two characters with vastly different abilities but do they really need Donkey Kong for that?
Post by: nickmitch on October 13, 2005, 02:33:06 PM
(I'm totally posting this in the game ideas section.)
Post by: ThePerm on October 13, 2005, 04:15:59 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 13, 2005, 09:05:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
If they partnered Mario with DK that'd mean they'd pass on Luigi once again.
Not if they used a "tag barrel" like option like in DK 64. Now that it's running through my brain I think a Mario style game with DK, Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, and say...Wario (No Waluigi cuz he teh sux hard) as playable characters would be pretty kick ass. Or could be anyway.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 13, 2005, 09:19:27 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 14, 2005, 01:50:29 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 15, 2005, 09:46:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
If they partnered Mario with DK that'd mean they'd pass on Luigi once again. I cannot support a plan that includes another SMB game without Luigi.
Of course they could have two characters with vastly different abilities but do they really need Donkey Kong for that?
Luigi could ride a baboon with a colorful rear end. And there is always Yoshi. Just think of it as Mario Kart DD on foot.
Donkey Kong (with a more Disney style design) can help bring older gamers back to the Mario games.
You don't want the characters to be too different. There must be a balance so that multiple people can play the game at once like Mario Kart using different characters; maybe even Bowser. You can do it in Mario Kart, why not the next Mario Bros on Revolution?
Post by: wandering on October 15, 2005, 11:50:38 PM
Quote
(No Waluigi cuz he teh sux hard)
Waluigi's awesome! He should have his own game.
No, wait, you know what would be great? A Nintendo baddies game. Imagine a game that stars Bowser, Wario, Waluigi, Wart, and Cranky Kong. And your goal is to steal the princess and rob the mushroom kingdom blind.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 16, 2005, 07:40:46 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on October 16, 2005, 08:40:35 AM
I just remembered something. Do you guys remember that trailer or clip that showcased Donkey Kong riding a rhino through the forest? The game was going to be like Mario Kart except with animals and such.
Maybe they should bring that idea back?
Post by: RABicle on October 16, 2005, 08:51:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Luigi could ride a baboon with a colorful rear end. And there is always Yoshi. Just think of it as Mario Kart DD on foot.
Donkey Kong (with a more Disney style design) can help bring older gamers back to the Mario games.
You don't want the characters to be too different. There must be a balance so that multiple people can play the game at once like Mario Kart using different characters; maybe even Bowser. You can do it in Mario Kart, why not the next Mario Bros on Revolution?
Nemo. Did you win the PGC dream game contest? What you mean to say you didn't? In fact I have it on good word that your entry came LAST. So shut up and stop embarrassing yourself with these pathetic ideas.
Post by: Artimus on October 16, 2005, 09:01:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RABicleQuote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Luigi could ride a baboon with a colorful rear end. And there is always Yoshi. Just think of it as Mario Kart DD on foot.
Donkey Kong (with a more Disney style design) can help bring older gamers back to the Mario games.
You don't want the characters to be too different. There must be a balance so that multiple people can play the game at once like Mario Kart using different characters; maybe even Bowser. You can do it in Mario Kart, why not the next Mario Bros on Revolution?
Nemo. Did you win the PGC dream game contest? What you mean to say you didn't? In fact I have it on good word that your entry came LAST. So shut up and stop embarrassing yourself with these pathetic ideas.
But the winner didn't exactly have a ton of depth...plus he's joking?
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on October 16, 2005, 09:27:16 AM
Post by: ThePerm on October 16, 2005, 10:20:56 AM
" That character overload is approaching Sonic levels. "???
Post by: Dasmos on October 16, 2005, 02:37:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
Oh my God!
I just remembered something. Do you guys remember that trailer or clip that showcased Donkey Kong riding a rhino through the forest? The game was going to be like Mario Kart except with animals and such.
Maybe they should bring that idea back?
Donkey Kong racing? it was being developed by Rare was it not? I didn't think it looked all that good, but it's got a screenshot on the back of my GC box along side a Kameo one!
Post by: ThePerm on October 16, 2005, 02:46:19 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 16, 2005, 05:17:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
like that one movie with laurence fishburn and stepehn baldwin "fled"
oh god.. that movie.. it just plain sucks. funny you should mention it, however, as it was on some movie channel last night (saturday late night/sunday morning). Some buddies and I tried to watch it after we got home from the bar and I was the only one to make it to the end.
fun fact: Fled was filmed in Atlanta, and both my neighbor and my current girlfriend are extras in the last scene (where everyone is walking out of the helicopter).
Awesome coincidence. i'll drink to that
Post by: Mario on October 16, 2005, 06:58:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
(No Waluigi cuz he teh sux hard)
Waluigi's awesome! He should have his own game.
No, wait, you know what would be great? A Nintendo baddies game. Imagine a game that stars Bowser, Wario, Waluigi, Wart, and Cranky Kong. And your goal is to steal the princess and rob the mushroom kingdom blind.
Wario & Waluigi RPG would be hilarious!
Post by: Artimus on October 16, 2005, 10:19:59 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 17, 2005, 12:24:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RABicleQuote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Luigi could ride a baboon with a colorful rear end. And there is always Yoshi. Just think of it as Mario Kart DD on foot.
Donkey Kong (with a more Disney style design) can help bring older gamers back to the Mario games.
You don't want the characters to be too different. There must be a balance so that multiple people can play the game at once like Mario Kart using different characters; maybe even Bowser. You can do it in Mario Kart, why not the next Mario Bros on Revolution?
Nemo. Did you win the PGC dream game contest? What you mean to say you didn't? In fact I have it on good word that your entry came LAST. So shut up and stop embarrassing yourself with these pathetic ideas.
If you have nothing constructive to add to the argument then don't post anything.
And if a post begun with the words Luigi could ride a baboon with a colorful rear end causes you to blow a gasket perhaps you need to lighten up and stop taking video games so seriously.
Post by: couchmonkey on October 17, 2005, 12:59:31 PM
Whatever it is, it needs to make use of the controller. I think Jungle Beat could be a great killer app, it just needs about twice as many levels to appease critics. Maybe it could use a dual-remote drumming setup, although that would mean Nintendo needs to include the second controller with the game or the system. For that matter Nintendo could probably think up some more creative way of using the remote to play the game, while still making it physical like Jungle Beat was.
I think a new Mario platformer could do just fine too, though. While there have been hints that Nintendo is having trouble finding a direction for Mario 128, it's pretty late in the game to be starting up a brand-new title to act as the "killer app". Ideally the real killer app is already well into development.
