Post by: foolish03 on September 15, 2005, 07:41:15 PM
Post by: The Omen on September 15, 2005, 07:49:48 PM
Post by: therat on September 15, 2005, 07:54:25 PM
im alil shaky on how you can press any of those buttons other then the back B button easily... i have the one handed RPG controller for the PS1 and only the back trigger buttons were easily hit...
i sure hope nintendo didnt put the nail in the coffin! i hope they dominate this next wave though, im sick of being laughed at for only owning a nintendo system!
Post by: therat on September 15, 2005, 07:55:50 PM
Post by: zakkiel on September 15, 2005, 08:24:52 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 15, 2005, 10:06:45 PM
Post by: foolish03 on September 16, 2005, 01:42:11 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 16, 2005, 03:23:13 AM
Post by: Mario on September 16, 2005, 03:33:56 AM
Quote
All im saying is it wont be the same game as the one on gamecube.
That's because SSBM is on GameCube, and the new SSB will be on Revolution.
Post by: Pale on September 16, 2005, 05:48:46 AM
Don't worry about it. Remember how much of Iwata's baby smash brothers is. It's not something he is going to let get screwed up in any way.
Post by: foolish03 on September 16, 2005, 04:41:58 PM
Come on mario dont be naive. Windwaker played almost exactly like legend of zelda and majoras mask. Different consoles doesnt necesarily mean different play style. Totally new control setup does though.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 16, 2005, 04:47:18 PM
Post by: Pale on September 16, 2005, 05:12:49 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 16, 2005, 05:15:38 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 16, 2005, 05:29:15 PM
So on the rev controler lets see the Z1 will be grab,Z2 the sheild (or the other way arround) A will be reg move and B your smash. Taunt can be select and a flick up or up on the control stick for jump and your smash move can be a smash with the stick or a strong flick forward on the remote. There you go problem solved. If your still anal about it a strong feeling tells me you can also use the classic shell with it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 16, 2005, 05:32:13 PM
B = Special Attack
Z1 = Throw
Z2 = Shield
D-pad = Taunt
And that's if they didn't add anything cool with motion-sensing, which I REALLY doubt...
Edit: What the heck? The second half of Lord's post didn't appear for me, thus making me make a redundant post! >=O
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 16, 2005, 05:39:32 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 16, 2005, 05:46:05 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on September 16, 2005, 05:49:52 PM
I say tilt side to side to run (or double tap dpad), x= power attack, flick up to jump, down to dodge, y= standard attack , b = block, A = grab ; select= taunt
that would work awesomely AND its still a crappy control scheme compared to everyone elses... so they've got options.
Post by: zakkiel on September 16, 2005, 07:09:08 PM
Post by: ThePerm on September 16, 2005, 07:24:16 PM
with soul calibur i never had this problem..everything feels very fluid to me. I really hope they change uo spash bros controls because yeah...
he remember that part of the trailer with the hot chick moving mario...it would be cool if you jumped with the flick of a rist and you punched by jabbing....and maybe charging relates to how long you hold the button
Post by: wandering on September 16, 2005, 10:07:35 PM
Also, as I think other people have demonstrated on this thread, the REV has the functionality of the N64 controller....so worries about the controller not working for Smash Bros are almost certainly unfounded.
Post by: Pale on September 17, 2005, 06:02:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
I hope they change the controls as well. Smash has always been about simple controls....yet it still has awesomeness like the perfect smash attacks.
Fixed. Seriously. If you honestly think the smash attacks are unintuitive, I'm completely confused. Would you rather have special attacks and combos be up, down, punch, special, block, block, up?
Sheesh. It's people like you that made them put the C-Stick functionality in the current game. GARBAGE!
Ahhhh... you want to know where I stand if they changed the Smash controls to flicking the wrist? That could be what puts me over the top. I WOULDN'T BUY IT! It's a competetive tournament fighter. How can sensing motion be more precise than a button?
Also, if you think there is a delay in the controls you are probably playing with the wrong character. Some characters attacks have built in delays. (ie. Mario's plunger punch) This is designed so that the powerful attacks require timing to pull off. Same goes for charging smash attacks. Dammit. It's the GCN's best seller for a reason. It is one of the most precise fighters of all time. Every attack happens as it was designed. For once you are memorizing attacks results instead of their dumbe multiple button pushes. Its about timing instead of crazed memorization or strategy guide staring.
And, as I edit for the third time. I will admit that some of what Bill and others were talking about up top would work. D-pad for jump. A and B for normal/special attack. Nunchuk shoulder for block and item toss. That would probably work well. I'm just serious in saying that motion sensing can't be used for this game. Well I guess you could use it as an elaborate and fun taunting technique, but that's about it.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on September 17, 2005, 08:08:01 AM
One thing I was thinking that MIGHT work in a SSB, is having all the analog stick functions taken over by movement/tilting. Like, point the controller to the right to move to the right. Do it really fast to dash to the right. Point it up to jump, like in that "demo" video. But I'm sure not everyone would like that idea, so maybe they could have a control scheme that involved the analog stick add-on.
Post by: zakkiel on September 17, 2005, 08:52:52 AM
QuoteThen you're screwed. Nintendo absolutely will not release its most popular title without making its new controller integral. I love the current gameplay, but I'm also completely convinced that they designed the new controller with SSB heavily on their minds. I have no doubt that once we see what they do with motion control, we will never go back.
Originally posted by: PaleQuote
Originally posted by: wandering
I hope they change the controls as well. Smash has always been about simple controls....yet it still has awesomeness like the perfect smash attacks.
I'm just serious in saying that motion sensing can't be used for this game. Well I guess you could use it as an elaborate and fun taunting technique, but that's about it.
Post by: PaLaDiN on September 17, 2005, 09:16:56 AM
Post by: Pale on September 17, 2005, 01:22:25 PM
The game will not work if you use the wand for attacks. Well it wouldn't work as it works now. It would go from a tournament level multi player game, to a fun romp full of random attacking.
Post by: thenintendorevolution on September 17, 2005, 02:11:39 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on September 17, 2005, 02:16:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thenintendorevolution
I have layed out a Control Scheme that shows you can make every single in SSBM with just the "remote". And I didn't even touch the D-pad.
I just read the thing about your mom and copying and pasting. That would drive me absolutely batsh!t insane. I'd like, yell at her.
Post by: wandering on September 17, 2005, 02:16:34 PM
Quote
Fixed. Seriously. If you honestly think the smash attacks are unintuitive, I'm completely confused. Would you rather have special attacks and combos be up, down, punch, special, block, block, up?
No. And I love Smash Bros the way it is. But I think it is time for a change.
Way back when I held ssb tourneys at my school. Five or six people showed up. Then, when I held a Mario Kart 64 tourney, it was ridiculously popular.
Also, when I try to explain SSB to people they just don't get it. They don't get the distinction between moving and 'tapping' the control stick, much less how to 'tap' the control stick in a certain direction and press a certain button at the same time with precise timing.
So, I'm not sure why gesturing to perform moves would be bad thing, or why that wouldn't work any less well than gesturing with an analog stick.
Imagine this: You move with the analogue stick. You hold the b button and move the pointer controller quickly either up, down, left, or right to perform a smash attack. Z1 would jump, Z2 would raise your shield, A would perform standard attacks, and the d-pad or select would grab [edit: and then you'd gesture to throw. Oh yes.]. Very similiar to Smash's old style, while still being more intuitive and more fun.
(as for the using-gyros-to-move-idea, I think that could be cool, or it could be as annoying as using the touchscreen to control mario in mario 64 DS. I'm not really sure.)
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on September 17, 2005, 02:17:38 PM
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg
Post by: wandering on September 17, 2005, 02:23:18 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on September 17, 2005, 02:24:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
Er...I haven't read the entire thread, but I read the first few posts, and you guys are apparently confused...there's a wavebird attachment being released (to ship with the console, apparently, along with the analog stick attachment) for more traditional games, like zelda.
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg
You're apparently confused. What part of the words "MOCK-UP" don't you understand?
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on September 17, 2005, 03:05:31 PM
Post by: Artimus on September 17, 2005, 03:21:45 PM
Post by: Rellik on September 17, 2005, 03:36:16 PM
My prediction is that basically every reputable developer is going to be all over the new controller, but Nintendo itself most of all - do you really think they would pass up the chance to reinvent their most popular games in wildly new, creative, accessable, and EARTH-SHATTERINGLY FUN ways? This is the beginning - new genres will be popping up left and right. The traditional style shell is only provided so that the old genres are still available on the Revolution, if you happen to be a fan.
Post by: zakkiel on September 17, 2005, 05:24:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Hmm... you may have a point.... you are only starting to convince me about the possibility that the wand will only be used for movement.
The game will not work if you use the wand for attacks. Well it wouldn't work as it works now. It would go from a tournament level multi player game, to a fun romp full of random attacking.
Possibly, but I highly doubt Nintendo would allow that. I can thhink of several different ways you could use attacks with the controller. The main obstacle is not preserving skill, but preserving character distinctness - if you make attacks more variable, the difference between fast and slow characters will blur a lot. Anyway, I'm not going to pass judgment until I see what Nintendo's doing.
Post by: BlkPaladin on September 17, 2005, 09:49:11 PM
Post by: thenintendorevolution on September 17, 2005, 09:57:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlkPaladin
You know I have come across a Nintendo made game that wasn't simple to pick up, easy and fun to play and the controls almost invisible.
Yeah, I played Mario Sunshine too... J/K
I think you screwed up what you were trying to say.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on September 18, 2005, 09:31:39 AM
"You know I haven't come across a Nintendo made game that wasn't simple to pick up, easy and fun to play and the controls almost invisible."
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 19, 2005, 05:12:11 AM
I can imagine some pretty impressive and fluid gaming with this thing that could revolutionize fighters.
Imagine if the console could animate fluidly your movements with your hands...and to fight you just hold A or B and press direction? Special moves could be mapped to the D-Pad.
Now this would allow SKILLED players that know the timing of animation and what their character can do and how fast they react to have very distinct and personal fighting styles with the characters.
Imagine Jumping forward with Mario The Forward air movement is Continued while you press the attack button and now you can literally attack anyone in 8-different directions in the air. You Press Down and B (Kick) and kick Yoshi Springing Mario up higher. While you do that you notice a fireball from Luigi is coming at you...so now you let go of B and Flick Upwards for your double jump....now you are safe and still doing towards Luigi. You hold A down for a powerful Smash Attack and Give a solid Flick of the Wrist to Send Luigi flying.
Now you turn your battle back on Yoshi.
This game could literally be completely redefined by this controller...not to be less deep, but more deep, and more intuitative at the same time.
Post by: Nile Boogie on September 19, 2005, 05:27:27 AM
I do have faith in the folks over at Nintendo. They'll make Smash 3(D) great.
Edit: Yar ye scurvy dogs, better not forget less thou be swimming in davey jones locker matey.
Post by: Pale on September 19, 2005, 06:14:06 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 19, 2005, 09:41:02 AM
To attack you hold down A for Punch or B for Kick and flick the direction you want to attack. (while buttons are held you won't move unless your character was already moving in the air in a particular direction.)
Now to perform Smash attack you either.
1)Charge the A button or B button for a few second and then Flick a direction.
2)Press A button or B button and flick further and/or faster to achieve a Smash Attack.
You can even combine these methods together to make uber-Strong Smash Attacks. In that case the A/B charge Smash Attacks would be stronger attacks than the flicking ones, because they require your character to stay stationary to charge.
SMASH ATTACKS can be done easily and logically on the system. Heck this system makes air combos pretty doable as well.
Press A and Up to launch someone in the air...Or A and Smash Up to Smash them higher, and then fall them with a flick jump into the air. Now you can A/B combo them in air, and then when you need to Jump again just flick up and jump a second time.
Also an easier and perhaps simplier Smash move would be to just allow the player to hold A/B together to Smash Attack.
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 19, 2005, 09:49:01 AM
Edit: Yarr, Spakky beat me to the plunder! (plus he said more words and stuff)
Post by: Pale on September 19, 2005, 09:49:43 AM
How do you charge? I mean, you can't hold the button down using your scheme, or every attack would be a smash attack... And, if a smash attack requires a greater distance of moving, how would the controller not think you were doing a normal attack first? By putting a delay on a normal attack? It wouldn't work.
Seriously guys, you need to realize that this may very well be a revolution like the analog stick was, but not every game uses or can be improved by an analog stick.
Post by: zakkiel on September 19, 2005, 10:57:06 AM
QuoteIt must suck to be facing such disappointment when the Revolution comes out, I guess. Oh, and yarr, matey, why shouldn't precision require skill to achieve, rather than smacking a button?
Seriously guys, you need to realize that this may very well be a revolution like the analog stick was, but not every game uses or can be improved by an analog stick.
Post by: Artimus on September 19, 2005, 12:52:52 PM
But I hate them so I'm not the best to judge.
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 19, 2005, 01:31:51 PM
Look, The original game has 2 buttons for attack, One Button for throw/Shield.
That is the most basic formula needed for Smash Brothers.
This controller could easily be used so that.
1)A Button Attacks.
2)B Button Special Attack
3)A/B Button Together Shield/Throw.
Or you could have the D-PAD for Special Buttons, and then two attack Buttons.
Anyway, Charging A Button is just that holding the Button for 2-3 Seconds without making triggering an attack, not that hard to figure out.
This control mechanic would cause the game to be different, but that would be a good thing, because Melee was pretty perfect, and I don't want just a clone of Melee I want something different.
If I could come up with that control system by myself. Nintendo's designers will come up with something better. Give them faith.
Smah Brothers, and Fighting games in general need a new formula to make them interesting again. Revolution may provide that formula.
Post by: zakkiel on September 19, 2005, 02:30:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
The problem with fighting games is that no one has ever improved the same old button-mashing format.
But I hate them so I'm not the best to judge.
I hope you're not including SSB in that. I really enjoy taking the button mashers out to town.
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 19, 2005, 02:59:15 PM
1-2 player games, yeah the Experienced player will always win, but Smash Brothers really shines as a 3-4 person experience and not the 2 player.
Button Smashers seemed to be able to do better and better with 3D fighters instead of 2D fighers.
I think partial reasons is the damage levels of these games slowly began to increase where it was possible to beat somebody by hitting them 5 times with the right moves.
Before that time 2D games had less damaging moves and special moves...often resulting in battles going back and forth, and ending with time out.
Post by: Rancid Planet on September 19, 2005, 03:25:09 PM
Me? I don't care. I don't really like games like that anyway. I like oddball games for the most part so the Rev controller will rarely be in question so far as I'm concerned. But I do feel that SSBM can benefit from the Rev's controller in many ways. It being a fighter of a different color and all.
But just so long as they make TWO of them for the Rev...
...
...
Bring it on.
heh
Post by: Pale on September 20, 2005, 04:51:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteIt must suck to be facing such disappointment when the Revolution comes out, I guess. Oh, and yarr, matey, why shouldn't precision require skill to achieve, rather than smacking a button?
Seriously guys, you need to realize that this may very well be a revolution like the analog stick was, but not every game uses or can be improved by an analog stick.
You're the one that doesn't understand. I love the controller. I just no for a fact that the motion sensing aspects of it will NOT be the main aspects of SB design. The game is Iwata's baby. Please try to understand my tournament vs. for fun discussion. At the tournment level, SB is all about really rapid button pushes and dodge combinations. This would not be possible when using hand gestures to control the movement or attacks. Nintendo is not stupid enough to take the tournment out of one of their only tournament games.
It could be just as fun in the short term, but the hard core smash bros. players... the ones that make the game as popular as it is, would be turned off solely because it can not offer the depth.
I'm obviously arguing my point like all of you are. I don't know if I've made a good argument but you all sure as heck haven't...
Pop smash brothers in once (if you are an experienced player) and play for a while. Notice your left thumb movements? Try and translate that to moving your hand. It wouldn't get bast the testing phase because people wouldn't have the wrist stamina.
Also, as soon as the control scheme is announced I'm bumping this thread so we can see who is wrong. I don't think it will be me.
Post by: Artimus on September 20, 2005, 06:19:16 AM
The simple fact is that Nintendo likes this controller. They'll use it for their main games.
Post by: Pale on September 20, 2005, 07:10:59 AM
That is not a simple fact. The simple fact is....
Nintendo likes the controller. They'll use it for games that will benefit from it.
Post by: zakkiel on September 20, 2005, 07:23:30 AM
QuoteThat kind of implies I was saying that you don't understand something, which I don't recall doing.
You're the one that doesn't understand.
QuoteSo is the controller. He would never, ever have adopted this design for the Revolution if he didn't plan to make it a centerpiece of SSB gameplay. What you "no for a fact" doesn't matter, I'm afraid.
I just no for a fact that the motion sensing aspects of it will NOT be the main aspects of SB design. The game is Iwata's baby.
QuoteNot anymore. Adapt or perish, that's the law of nature operating here.
t the tournment level, SB is all about really rapid button pushes and dodge combinations.
QuoteNo, you're just repeating your statement that precision would be impossible with the NRC. That's not an argument.
I don't know if I've made a good argument
QuoteWhat? That Nintendo won't release its most popular title without using the controller that defines its new system? That argument makes itself, Pale, and your only counterargument is "I can't imagine how you could get precision out of their new controller." That says more about your imagination than it does about Nintendo's intentions. I honestly believe if it came down to it that they would throw out SSB as a tournament game before they would risk the negative publicity of "even NINTENDO doesn't really use its own controller when it counts. Gimmick!" That would be the end of the console.
but you all sure as heck haven't...
QuoteIn a world in which the NRC preceded the joystick, I'm sure you would be saying exactly the same thing about translating from wrist to thumb movements. I can't for the life of me imagine what this thought experiment is supposed to prove. We're trying to compare two things, one of which exists entirely in our imagination and the other of which we've been familiar with for years. As an added bonus, we have no idea how closely our imagination corresponds to the reality Nintendo intends. Personally, comparing the internet speculation on what the new controller might be (ranging from "stupid" to "unbelievably asinine) with what Nintendo came up with, I don't see the point in speculating on their NRC SSB control scheme at all. For one thing, there's more yet to be revealed about the console itself.
Pop smash brothers in once (if you are an experienced player) and play for a while. Notice your left thumb movements? Try and translate that to moving your hand.
Post by: Pale on September 20, 2005, 07:50:03 AM
I will now sum up what I have been trying to say and throw the ball back in your court.
1. Nintendo will not force motion sensing into every game unless it can benefit from it.
2. I do not believe, and no one has shown otherwise, that SB will benefit from motion sensing control in place of the original scheme. I am aware I am repeating myself, but why stop if no one can show me otherwise. You will lose precision if you rely on motion controls. In order to have the depth of control the current Smash Brothers has, a wide range of movements will be required. This will result in flailing arms which is not a good thing in a game like this. If you limit flailing arms, you limit the controls, thus downgrading from the already proven scheme. All of this points to how Smash Brothers will not benefit from motion control.
Now, if you want me to start thinking otherwise, stop using the argument that it will be used because Nintendo can, and start showing me how smash brothers will benefit from it. I am definately open to suggestions.
All of this said, I expect motion sensing to make an appearance in the game, but the standard nunchuck style controller will mimc the original controls exactly. All motion sensing will do is add some new possibilities.
Now for my official prediction... rewording what I said above. Smash Brothers will come out. You will hold the controller with the analog nunchuck attachment. A and B will be for attack and special attack just like the original. Any direction on the d-pad will be for jump, just like the original. Either shoulder button on the analog attachment will be for sheild/grapple, just like the original. The analog stick will move you around and decide which version of attack you do, just like the original. Motion sensing will add something new that I can't even predict at this point.
Post by: ShyGuy on September 20, 2005, 10:29:38 AM
Post by: Pale on September 20, 2005, 11:23:40 AM
Like I said before, I would probably like this "different" game, but I will be pissed if it marks the end of the smash brothers style of game.
Post by: Artimus on September 20, 2005, 11:27:44 AM
You know, like Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, Metroid Prime...all of those are fake genre games. They're really just Bobo the Monkey in a Mario/Link/Samus suit!
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 20, 2005, 11:29:18 AM
(Seriously, the game will utilize the remote, but don't expect Ninty to vastly change the system...)
Post by: Pale on September 20, 2005, 11:53:04 AM
I don't know why I'm catching so much flack for saying what I am saying... christ... you are arguing with a guy who loves Nintendo's business model and loves what they did with the controller... you are treating me like some guy who is starting a Nintendo is d00md thread when I'm actually just suggesting that I am confident Nintendo will not change the controls, rather add another layer. I expect to still be moving my character with the joystick and punching with the a button.
It's also possible that I will be wrong... But all of your arguments are based on the fact that the controller we know maybe 25% of the plans for will alter every single Nintendo first party title to the point that nothing is retained. I doubt that. Yeah, Shiggy said zelda will be different... that's cool... but has any of them come out and said it smash will be different? no... calm yourselves and at least listen to my point of view. If you read through the thread you will see I went back and forth several times and I have actually given this thing a lot of thought. For trying to see both sides of the coin I'm getting flamed. Whatever.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 20, 2005, 11:53:09 AM
People want to play SSB online really badly. So I think Nintendo should give people what they want: SSBM with more stuff and online play. It's not very fair for them to not go online with the Cube and then when they finally do go online they mess around with all the games we wanted online to justify the design of their new controller.
If they want to use the remote to try new things that's fine but I think when it comes to existing multiplayer franchises that we want online they best keep things traditional for now. Give us SSB online as we liked it and retool it into something we might not like later.
It's like when people ask for a Pokemon MMO. Screw that. I want the full 3D single player Pokemon RPG I should have got years ago first. If they go online with SSB AND change the controls all around they're skipping a step. There's a great game inbetween those steps that they would be denying us and that's the great game we've been asking for for years.
Hopefully they'll keep it traditional for now since they're doing that with Zelda. We all wanted an epic Zelda with detailed graphics that weren't blocky like the N64 games. Nintendo could have just given us Wind Waker and then gone on to whatever the hell Zelda is going to be like on the Rev. But first they're giving us at least one more Zelda in the more traditional form, sort of like the ultimate Zelda game. So maybe they'll do the same for this and give us the ultimate SSB before they change it into something else.
It just makes sense to push the old formula to its absolute limits before changing things around.
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 20, 2005, 12:29:28 PM
I can guarantee you that SSBRev will use the remote. They're not going to release it using standard buttons because that'd be trodding on their whole philosophy with this system. Will it be different from SSBM? Of course it will! I don't know how different, but it's silly to suggest renaming an installment of a franchise just because the controls differ. The same applies to fighting games, especially SSB, which has so many subtle factors to it that control is in fact a relatively small factor by comparison.
And Ian, how is SSBM NOT the ultimate SSB game? Online is not an answer, because online is a feature, not something to design a game around. I'd say another SSBM game, just improved, would be redundant. I mean it'd be awesome and I'd buy it, but still redundant. SSBM had pretty much everything.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 20, 2005, 12:45:09 PM
Because it's not online. DUH!
I think that game is damn near perfect but I can't play it with you guys on the forum so there's still room to go.
"They're not going to release it using standard buttons because that'd be trodding on their whole philosophy with this system."
That's probably true but I'd rather they not "break" a great game just to try to sell a new controller. Pale is right when he says that with fighters the controls ARE the game. Ever played Capcom vs. SNK 2 with the GCism controls? It is NOT the same game. Same moves, same characters, same objective but it is not even close to the same thing.
Nintendo probably will use the remote but I sure as hell don't think they should.
"They're just saying give HAL a chance and let's see what they come up with, because knowing HAL, it'll freakin' rock."
Isn't this the same HAL that made Kirby Air Ride? Their last attempt at "simplifying controls" for "non-gamers" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence regarding SSB.
Post by: Professor Gnarly on September 20, 2005, 01:03:22 PM
Post by: IceCold on September 20, 2005, 03:54:56 PM
I will say this; Nintendo is extremely proud. It's hard for me to see them using the shell instead of their new controller and selling point of the Rev for the sequel to the titles that sold the most on their previous two consoles. Even if ultimately it controls worse then it would have by using a shell (and I would hope it wouldn't), Nintendo probably will go with the remote. This is of course, assuming that it does in fact play better with the shell, but come on, this is one of Nintendo's flagship titles; they must have thought of a way to improve it using the interface.
It's kind of like why there are no first party titles on the Cube that use two discs - Nintendo just won't do that because it would tell everyone that they were wrong in choosing a smaller medium. So a Nintendo title on the Rev has a much better chance of using the remote; even SSBR.
And THIS is what Ian's so worried about. That for a game like this, it could control better with traditional controls, but Nintendo's pride won't let them use the shell. Personally, I trust Nintendo, and I don't think that they would do that; if it wasn't as intuitive with the remote, they wouldn't use it. But you never know..
Post by: IceCold on September 20, 2005, 03:59:45 PM
QuoteOh, come on now Ian..could you at least wait until you play Zelda Rev?
But first they're giving us at least one more Zelda in the more traditional form, sort of like the ultimate Zelda game
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 20, 2005, 04:01:46 PM
Let this not be a comment of my opinion on this matter, this was only an observation. Take from it what you will
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 20, 2005, 04:04:36 PM
Besides, it's also the HAL that made Earthbound, SSBM, Kirby's Dreamland, etc. Saying SSBRev will suck because of Kirby Air Ride is like saying Schindler's List sucks because Spielberg made AI.
I don't think there's a point in releasing essentially the same game just so it can have online. I'd like to play SSB with you guys, of course, but that's why I'm hoping this one will kick ass. If it doesn't, you are totally right about everything.
Capcom vs SNK didn't work because it was trying to use a control scheme that was made for another controller, one more appropriate for fighters. This is a completely different control scheme, so a game based around a new system of control has the potential to be just as good, if not better, than its predecessors.
And I'm not sure I can say anymore, without having seen the game in action.
Post by: Pale on September 20, 2005, 04:51:45 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on September 20, 2005, 06:29:33 PM
I'm basing that on Miyamoto saying that Twilight Princess will be the last Zelda as we know it or something to that effect. I don't remember the exact quote but he hinted on change. Plus there's that "pull the lever" comment he made way, way back.
Post by: zakkiel on September 20, 2005, 06:33:26 PM
QuoteNo, quote raping would be me taking statements like
I've been quote raped
Quoteand
his argument is definately on the internet
Quoteand making nasty little allusions to discovering an accidental Yogi Berra in the making. Which would be silly, because this is a game forum on the internet and what you say here reflects some absurdly small segment of your personality and ability in RL.
Also, as soon as the control scheme is announced I'm bumping this thread so we can see who is wrong. I don't think it will be me.
I use quotes because it makes it much easier to avoid situations in which we shout past each other, and because it helps ensure that I read what you're writing more closely.
QuoteThe response, once again: Nintendo would not have made this controller if SSB could not benefit from it in a way that they foresee.
1. Nintendo will not force motion sensing into every game unless it can benefit from it.
QuoteThat leaves throwing, I guess. But even if you change that, you've already moved away from the crystalline rigidness you believe is mandatory. As you're an experienced player, I'm sure you realize how crucial knowing the two possible trajectories down to the finest detail can be. Allow any trajectory in between, and it's a different story. It just would come up more rarely in the game.
I'm just proposing that motion sensing should not be used for either attacks or moving...
Anyway, I reject the whole idea that analogue rules out precision. Analogue makes precision a matter of player skill rather than computer programming. One of my hobbies is fencing, and if you think there's no precision in that you're a fool. A good epee fencer will see a minute change in the angle of an opponent's blade exposing the wrist and touch it, often while the opponent is attacking. You can't get much more analogue (or precise) than that.
QuoteYes. It won't be SSBM: Expansion Pack.
Ok.. please don't argue semantics guys... This is a fighter... not an adventure game.... controls ARE a fighter, at least for me, so it is a different game then.
QuoteIf Nintendo extra smart, they will make an online-enabled Melee as a bonus for Revolution pre-orders (though it could, alas, only be played on the Rev). Be damn hard for anyone to be unhappy after that.
think that game is damn near perfect but I can't play it with you guys on the forum so there's still room to go.
QuoteHyperbole much?
But all of your arguments are based on the fact that the controller we know maybe 25% of the plans for will alter every single Nintendo first party title to the point that nothing is retained.
QuoteSustained disagreement is not flaming. I'm continuing this because, frankly, I'm dying for more Rev info and this thread is a slightly less feeble substitute than the others.
For trying to see both sides of the coin I'm getting flamed. Whatever.
Post by: Mario on September 20, 2005, 06:33:51 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on September 20, 2005, 09:40:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
...i'm thinking that SSB should mainly be the game to showcase the online system, just like Mario Kart DS is for DS.
True dat.
You don't see Nintendo making Mario Kart DS a "touchsceen use only" game do you?
I know that isn't really the same thing but you get what I'm saying.
Post by: Pale on September 21, 2005, 04:23:13 AM
And thank you for flaming my saying "I don't think it will be me"... I really should have said "I think i'll be wrong" apparently... because that would help your cause? What the hell are we arguing for?
Was melee a rehash of the original N6 game? I sure as hell don't think so.... yet it used the same control scheme.
I also asked one simple question in my response. Can you please explain to me how Smash would become a better game if you control everything by waving your arms? If you can do that, you will change my mind. But assuming that Nintendo's controller will help EVERY Nintendo game be better than what it was is just silly. Do you think the new pokemon DS game will use the touch screen to walk around? Doubtful. I'm betting the d-pad is still the desired movement tool. Most likely they will add a new layer to pokemon that implements the touch screen. Maybe you can pet your monster just like in Nintendogs... I dunno. That's what I'm hoping for when it comes to Smash. The same great game with an awesome new layer that I can't even come up with. That layer will utilize motion sensing.
So do me a favor... Stop quote raping. It's a very boring way to respond and I (and I'm sure others) hate reading them. Stop being so personal. I don't think I get personal and if I come off that way, I'm not serious. The only reason I'm continuing is cause I don't like people thinking that these kinds of tactics 'win' internet arguments.
Post by: KirbySStar on September 21, 2005, 04:36:44 AM
QuoteTsch. It's a hell of a lot better than Nintendo's last attempt at making a kart racer.
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Isn't this the same HAL that made Kirby Air Ride? Their last attempt at "simplifying controls" for "non-gamers" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence regarding SSB.
Post by: Dasmos on September 21, 2005, 05:02:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KirbySStarQuoteTsch. It's a hell of a lot better than Nintendo's last attempt at making a kart racer.
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Isn't this the same HAL that made Kirby Air Ride? Their last attempt at "simplifying controls" for "non-gamers" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence regarding SSB.
I remember having this same argument not too long ago. I will not get abusive or anything though, my opinion is that Kirby Airride is not as good MK: DD. Sure MK wasn't perfect, but neither was Kirby. It had a large potential, but had fatal flaws. The one button control should have never been, especially when it makes more than one command. Breaking fine, but shooting should have been moved to another button. It's not hard to control tow buttons at once is it? Whenever you try to shoot in the game it slows you down. Bah! Enough of my bitching......except one more thing, the fastest rides always win, they may have other disadvantages but in the game it never matters.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 21, 2005, 05:18:40 AM
Post by: zakkiel on September 21, 2005, 07:51:50 AM
QuoteNo, I was amused that you woould feel the need to say "I don't think I'm wrong." Think about it a bit. I'll put the answer in my next post.
And thank you for flaming my saying "I don't think it will be me"... I really should have said "I think i'll be wrong" apparently... because that would help your cause? What the hell are we arguing for?
QuoteWhich is what you will keep repeating until you actually try it. Seriously, you can't offer a single reason to believe this, you just keep saying it over and over again in the hopes that we'll suddenly believe you, a la Goebbels.
Static floating movements being translated to moving and attacking on screen is not precision.
QuoteOh, I don't know that it will. I'm saying that you WILL control Smash by waving your arms. Whether it will be a better game is up to Nintendo.
Can you please explain to me how Smash would become a better game if you control everything by waving your arms?
QuoteWhen you can fill me in on how they could add some amazing new layer to the game without violating the oh-so-sacred Melee formula I'll be more inclined to take you seriously.
That's what I'm hoping for when it comes to Smash. The same great game with an awesome new layer that I can't even come up with.
QuoteSorry, I prefer argument to rhetorical fireworks. If you can't actually handle point-by-point responses, stop responding by all means.
It's a very boring way to respond and I (and I'm sure others) hate reading them.
QuoteYou don't know what "personal" means. Allow me to demonstrate:
Stop being so personal.
Your problem with reading my posts doesn't seem to be boredom at all. You maintain a tone of hysterical defensiveness combined with dogmatic and uncritical reassertion and a complete inability to substantively engage any one else here. This, I guess, would be why you hate "quote rape": it requires the intellectual capacity to deal with a continuous flow of argument and the emotional capacity to deal with someone disagreeing with you. You have demonstrated neither. Instead of whining about the fact that people haven't just abandoned their own opinions and bowed before you, try developing the spine to respond on rational grounds. A victim complex doesn't help anyone.
That right there is what I would call flaming. I rarely do it anymore. Congratulations, you managed to provoke me.
QuoteFunny thing, just last post I said something about what I would do if I were really quote raping, and specifically said "but that would be silly." You managed to take offense anyway, so I see no point in trying to spare your exceptionally tender feelings.
Stop being so personal. I don't think I get personal and if I come off that way, I'm not serious.
Post by: Pale on September 21, 2005, 07:59:49 AM
Man, you just made me feel like such an idiot.... why did i keep this up this long. At least the rest of the forum listened to my opinion, thought of it what they will, and didn't make grossly wrong assumptions about what I know/think and how smart they are. No. I won't be posting in this thread again.
Actually thanks. You brought on another one of those "why the hell do i spend time in forums" things. Maybe I'll get some work done now. Have a good life all star.
Post by: vudu on September 21, 2005, 09:36:03 AM
QuoteHow about this senerio...Nintendo has 4 games available at launch. 3 of them use the remote/nunchuk exclusively. SSB uses the controller as a way of letting developers know that it's okay to continue to make games using the traditional controller.
I will say this; Nintendo is extremely proud. It's hard for me to see them using the shell instead of their new controller and selling point of the Rev for the sequel to the titles that sold the most on their previous two consoles. Even if ultimately it controls worse then it would have by using a shell (and I would hope it wouldn't), Nintendo probably will go with the remote
QuoteI second that. I haven't been able to read a single post by zakkiel because they hurt my eyes and my brain.
So do me a favor... Stop quote raping. It's a very boring way to respond and I (and I'm sure others) hate reading them.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 21, 2005, 10:05:44 AM
Good idea though I don't know if Nintendo would go for it. I don't know if Nintendo want to let developers know that it's okay to use the traditional controller. They never really gave anyone incentive to use the d-pad on the N64.
There is one problem if they went with that idea. They really would have to make sure that one of their remote games was by far the best game. If SSB is the best game and it uses traditional controls then they just proved that the old way is better, more or less. It would be total disaster for Nintendo if their innovative remote games collected dust while SSB killed them all in sales. Not only would they have egg on their face but they would run into the problem where most Rev owners would be expecting some other "traditional" game to follow up SSB and Ninendo would likely be stuck with a bunch of remote games in the pipeline.
It would be like how Goldeneye was a huge hit but it was different than the other N64 games Nintendo was making and wasn't really expected to be such a big hit. So suddenly Nintendo had a whole bunch of mature gamers buying their console and they had nothing for that audience in the works so they never really were able to follow up on it. They can't release Super Smash Bros Online and then follow it up with Yoshi's Touch 'n' Go.
I'm not suggesting Nintendo shoehorn SSB into using the remote nor am I suggesting they dumb it down to not divert attention from their remote games. I'm suggesting they release some seriously awesome sh!t that uses the remote. In order for this to really take off they need remote games at launch that are better than the best traditional games. Twilight Princess is coming out the same year. Their remote games have to be better than THAT or at least as good. A Cube game should not win "Best Nintendo Game of the Year" the same year that the Rev is released. In 1996 SNES games weren't even in the running. It was unanimously Super Mario 64.
Post by: vudu on September 21, 2005, 10:35:37 AM
QuoteI disagree. If Metroid Prime 3 and SSBRev are launch titles and SSBRev is the better game it doesn't mean that the traditional controller is better--just better for that particular genre of game. Now, if MP3 and another FPS were released as launch titles and only one used the remote/nunchuk for control then you could compare the two games and try to determine which method of control was better.
There is one problem if they went with that idea. They really would have to make sure that one of their remote games was by far the best game. If SSB is the best game and it uses traditional controls then they just proved that the old way is better, more or less.
The same would go if Namco released an enhanced port of Soul Caliber III as a Revolution launch title and it used the remote/nunchuk. If SSBRev used the traditional controller attachment, you could obvious try to compare the two games to determine which control method was better suited for fighters. However, even then, the two games are so different, it might be hard to draw comparisons between the two. For instance, perhaps the remote/nunchuk combination is better for 3D fighters but the traditional controller is better for 2D ones.
Post by: zakkiel on September 21, 2005, 10:50:25 AM
QuoteGood. Though maybe anger management would be better than work. Anyway, so long as you're gone it will be much the best all around.
Actually thanks. You brought on another one of those "why the hell do i spend time in forums" things. Maybe I'll get some work done now.
Ian, I basically agree. (Wow). And since I doubt that Nintendo would be satisfied to make SSB a niche title, they're pretty well boxed in to using the new controller with it. If Nintendo's launch game on traditional controls is better than the ones with the new remote, then all their claims to be revolutionizing game play go out the window. They're just offering one more alternative in a crowded market. Since some Nintendo official recently said in an interview that they plan for this to become the dominant form of gameplay, I don't think they'd settle for that.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 21, 2005, 10:55:42 AM
That makes sense but I don't think that's how people would see it. I think comparisons would be made no matter what.
I should specify that when I talk about a difference in quality being a problem I mean like comparing SSBM to Luigi's Mansion. There was a huge difference in quality there and that's why despite Luigi's Mansion being the flagship title SSBM is clearly the more popular game. I mean if SSB with normal controls is THE Rev game to play and remote games aren't then Nintendo's got a problem.
Nintendo is saying that gaming as we know it is flawed and that they have something better. So they have to have a Super Mario 64 level game to prove that. The killer app for remote has to have "best game ever made" being tossed around.
One thing that really sold me on the SNES and the N64 was that the first games being shown looked like they were better than almost every game from the previous console. I felt like I had to get the next console or I would be missing out. That's what the initial Rev titles have to do.
Post by: Dasmos on September 21, 2005, 10:20:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
How about I play the neutral side and say that both of you suck and both games rocked?
Oh I enjoyed both games, I just thought Mario Kart was greater. Both were worth the money, Kirby only cost me $30 though......
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 18, 2005, 06:52:48 AM
analog stick controls all movement. dpad can be used as a jump button. z1/z2 are block/throw. flick up can jump, flick down to duck-dodge (think about it; you could do that pretty quickly). offer a C-stick-esque smash option where if you hit A and flick to a direction you can do a smash attack. I'm not sure if you can charge those.
also, i just want to know how many people use the Cstick in melee and how find it to be kinda cheap? I've never used it, but it bothers me when I see my roomate jump into the fray and smash,smash,smash repeatedly. Cstick is lame.
Post by: Darkheart on October 18, 2005, 07:06:52 AM
Post by: zakkiel on October 18, 2005, 07:31:07 AM
Post by: TMW on October 18, 2005, 11:30:39 AM
===
Now, is Edge Hogging "cheap" or "tactically sound"?
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on October 18, 2005, 01:00:44 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on October 18, 2005, 01:05:46 PM
I like your idea that uses a flick of the wrist to dodge. And your right, you can do that very easily and quickly. What if you extend that further?
Here's a control scheme that i think could work marvelously (mostly taken form Stimutacs):
Analague stick: Movement
A: Normal attack
B: Special attack
z1: block
z2: throw
Holding A then flicking your wrist: Weak Smash Attack (Smash attacks can now be aimed in any direction)
Flicking your wrist + A: True Smash Attack
Flicking your wrist + A (then Hold): Charging Smash Attack (even more powerful then before but takes longer to reach maximum power. Also you can alter the direction mid-smash (only after being charged for a set amount of time))
flick of the wrist upwards / up and to the right / up and to the left: jump up / up and to the right / up and to the left
flick of the wrist downwards: Dodge (which is changed to allow you to "A" attack (no smash) afterwards)
While in air, holding Block then flicking your wrist: Air Dodge
flick of the wrist left while facing right: slide/jump backwards (if a jump, you still have 2 jumps as you would normally have)
flick of the wrist right while facing right: lunge forward
Lunging forward and at anytime before landing pressing A: Jump Attack (there is a recovery time invovled)
Sprinting and Lunging forward: Dive roll
Holding Block then flicking your wrist: roll
Holding Throw and flicking your wrist: throw item
Flicking your wrist + Throw: Smash throw item (Can be charged)
Throw w/o an item: grab
While grabbing, flicking your wrist: Will throw the opponent in any direction
While grabbing in air, flicking your wrist: Will throw the opponent in any direction and will result with your charachter moving slightly in the opposite direction.
While grabbing in air, flicking the ANALOGUE STICK downwards: Dive while subdueing charachter. If the charachter isn't that weak, he/she/it can break free.
D-pad: This could be used creatively somehow.
I know your probably thinking "Why have a jump back/ lunge forward move when you already can roll?" Well, because you can not only dodge, but jump while jumping back (something you can't do while rolling). Their is no recovery time when you finally land (unlike rolling, where you have a brief moment where you can't do anything). Also, jumping back is very fast. So you can jump back and forth really fast if you time it right. However, rolling still has the ability to roll around a person. Jumping forwards or backwards doesn't allow you to jump through someone. You can, however, shove them back if the charachter is stronger or the opponent has a high percentage.
For example, an opponent is charging a smash. Before they release it you lunge into them, disrupting their charge and forcing them back. While they slide back, you can press A mid-lunge and attack them. The opponent can counter this move simply by releasing the charging smash before you hit them. However, if you were to jump Attack the opponent instead of just lunge, then the player who had the more powerful attack would deal more damage and would move less.
I see a one on one fray between masters going like this:
Ganondorf: 110%
Link: 75%
Ganons on the right, Links on the left.
Ganondorf does a super-punch. Link jumps back barely missing the punch, then jumps forwards and attacks. Ganon rolls back, charges, grabs Link, and tosses him forward. Ganon follows up with a sliding kick. Link, as soon as he touches ground from the throw, hand-springs backwards (requires perfect timing), jumps upwards and stabs downwards. Ganon is sent flying off to the left. He returns to the platform barely by hanging off the edge. He flips upwards off the edge. Link retaliates by jumping and attacking mid-air. Before he can attack though, Ganon grabs him mid-air and dives towards the ground. They crash into the ground, and Ganon flips off of Link. Link rolls to the right, and it becomes a stand-still. Link charges forward, stops short, throws his boomerang, and jump attacks forward. Link had hoped Ganon would dodge the boomerang then get hit by his jump attack, instead Ganon simply blocks and slides across the playing field as a result of the force (the block "bubbles" are gone, and are now replaced with translucent bubbles that light up at the point of contact). Link sprints towards Ganon. Ganon prepares a charge smash attack (which direction can be changed mid-smash after a set amound of time). Link sprints towards the charging Ganon, only to dive roll as Ganon releases his charging smash attack. Link, now behind Ganon, delivers a spin-attack.....
So on and so forth
Post by: TMW on October 18, 2005, 04:37:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 18, 2005, 04:44:33 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 18, 2005, 04:56:38 PM
Post by: IceCold on October 18, 2005, 06:40:41 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 18, 2005, 08:40:22 PM
Post by: wandering on October 19, 2005, 06:59:50 AM
Oh, as for how the NRC controller might be used for Smash....
Pale has actually convinced me that motion wouldn't work well as a replacement for the analogue stick when it comes to normal attacks. So, that opens up some other possibilites. I like Don'tHate's/Simutac's ideas......but I have anohter: the gyros could be used for super-duper smash attacks. Imagine that each charachter has an ultra-powerful attack that can only be used once every 30 seconds or so, and requires a simple hand gesture to execute. For DOnkey Kong, you might swing the remote around in a circle to do a super punch. For Mario, you might flick your wrist right, hold to charge, then flick left for an ultra-powerful fire ball blast. For jiggly puff, you might have to swing the controller around in a complex pattern in order to use her special Jiggly Dance! move that generally dishes out about 1 percentage point worth of damage.
Post by: zakkiel on October 19, 2005, 10:13:52 AM
I really dislike the idea of moves with a 30-second cooldown. I see no place in SSB for that kind of nonsense. If you have a more powerful move, it should have some tactical drawback, not a restriction on how often you can use it.
Post by: nemo_83 on October 19, 2005, 01:01:36 PM
Post by: IceCold on October 19, 2005, 04:14:14 PM
EDIT: Yeah, thx Artimus, that's what I meant/
Post by: Artimus on October 19, 2005, 04:53:45 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 16, 2005, 09:03:07 AM
Link
Post by: cubist on November 16, 2005, 09:27:12 AM
now i'm doubting myself...was it E3 2004? or E3 2005?...somebody?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 16, 2005, 11:14:46 AM
Post by: ThePerm on November 16, 2005, 02:24:19 PM
Post by: IceCold on November 16, 2005, 02:34:04 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2005, 06:36:30 PM
Fantastic! Sequels are always way better when the original creator is involved.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 17, 2005, 02:06:51 AM
Post by: wandering on November 17, 2005, 05:19:25 AM
...Except in the case of the Matrix....
Post by: KDR_11k on November 17, 2005, 05:42:06 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 17, 2005, 07:48:48 AM
Ooh I want royalties
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 17, 2005, 09:11:47 AM
Or it could mean that they have character designs and art done, and now they want a Vet to balance the gameplay and ensure the game is everything its supposed to be.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on November 17, 2005, 10:04:15 AM
Post by: odifiend on November 17, 2005, 10:56:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
What do you guys think about the game "not being as far along as you may have thought"? That kinda worries me. I have my doubts about how good it can be if it's not very far along right now, and it's slated to be released along with the Revolution.
Meh. With the exception of some new features and possibly new modes of play, I don't see how much more improved the setup in smash bros could be. They still have a year if they want SSB to launch with the Rev, and if it misses launch I don't see it as a huge deal as long as they have other games at launch.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 17, 2005, 11:50:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
What do you guys think about the game "not being as far along as you may have thought"? That kinda worries me. I have my doubts about how good it can be if it's not very far along right now, and it's slated to be released along with the Revolution.
It was first announced at this past E3, but do you really think HAL hadn't started it till then? I think not...
Post by: ruby_onix on November 17, 2005, 01:01:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
It was first announced at this past E3, but do you really think HAL hadn't started it till then? I think not...
Quote
Originally posted by: IGN
One day at E3, Sakurai reveals, he was called to Iwata's room on the top floor of a Los Angeles hotel, and told by Iwata, "We'd like you to be involved in the production of the new Smash Bros., if possible near the level of director."
Sakurai's comments suggest that Super Smash Bros. may not be as far along in development as some had initially thought. At E3, Nintendo raised Smash Bros. for Revolution as an example of the Wi-Fi connection program that would kick off with the DS later in the year. Actual production hadn't begun at the time.
First IGN basically says "the tone of his voice suggests that..." and then they state something similar as an unequivocal fact.
That's IGN for you.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 17, 2005, 03:38:37 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 17, 2005, 09:40:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiendQuote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
if it misses launch I don't see it as a huge deal as long as they have other games at launch.
i disagree.. of course original content is a necessity and I think that having a killer IP is essential to teh Rev's sucess, but without SSB at launch Nintendo would be screwing over many many diehard gamers. It's games like SSB that sell multiple consoles and peripherals in groups of friends.
... anyone else think about how cool it would be if they did the faceplate thing for the remotes? they'll be so easy to carry around that you could slip it in your backpack and always be ready for a game at your buddy's house... that's assuming that there are plenty of games that solely use the freehand remote
Post by: odifiend on November 18, 2005, 01:33:15 AM
SA, remember Mario 128-Rev-whatever is still supposed to be coming out...
Post by: KDR_11k on November 18, 2005, 02:42:05 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 18, 2005, 03:29:43 AM
The part that will take the longest to create is the games engine and charachter balance. Since they could be rehashing the SSB:M engine, it could take drastically less time to make when compared to SSB:M (which I'm assuming was made from scratch). Considering that most franchise charachters for the REV have already been created, SSBR has the possibilty to be ready and polished by next August, easy. If the REV launches at the time (most plausible guess-timation), then we have a launch title on our hands.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 18, 2005, 04:54:40 AM
My point is that Casuals who get their info from G4tv will see the cool controller, some wacky japanese micro games and cooking sims, and a new mario and think "hey this is cool".. as opposed to seeing a new SSB game AT LAUNCH and think "omfg i need that, SSB 64 is starting to get old"
(its odd but I know almost half a hundred people who wont play SSb:melee with us around the dorm but stay up till 3am playing the original because it has "more strategy",,, whatever their reasons are, it generally boils down to not being able to keep up with the moving stages or dodge moves)
Anyway, Nitnendo would not be screwing us, for they'd be making a better game, but think about the opportunity cost of spending 3 to 6 months on a game that could propel the rev launch to new heights, a game that could potentially bring back all those morons who left nintendo when they saw Halo. SSB before christmas could lock the rev in for the best christmas present around. college students aren't going to drop $500 for Ps3 setup for the dorm, nor will parents paying tuition fees ... but a $250 Rev setup (system, game) is far more plausible.
If they release SSB 2-3 weeks after the launch, they'll be in good shape. Otherwise that needs to be out on day one.
Funny how I forgot about Mario; I don't know how I'm going to spend my time when the Revolution comes.
Post by: King of Twitch on November 18, 2005, 10:19:11 PM
Post by: MattVDB on November 19, 2005, 08:18:52 PM
But, one of the items I most look forward to seeing them put in, and this comes solely from the Mario Kart of late, is the lightning bolt. How wicked, is automatically making all of your opponents mini? I love the idea.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 19, 2005, 10:09:19 PM
Post by: odifiend on November 20, 2005, 02:26:40 AM
Yes, metroids would be hawt! KDR's implemation is what I'd imagin as well.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 20, 2005, 03:19:51 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on November 20, 2005, 07:52:02 AM
EDIT: that sounded a lot better earlier.. but I liike the random proabability associated with the pokeballs, the surprise when a Suicune or Electriccat is priceless
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 20, 2005, 07:53:55 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 20, 2005, 09:29:12 AM
Plus, you can always make the lightning bolt have a randomized reverse effect like the mushroom and it will make everyone Giant, but you. HA.
Metroids would be cool item to have in the game...but I wouldn't make it something that is controllable. I would love to see someone break open a crate and Metroids fly out going after the person with the LEAST amount of damage...in other words the people with the strongest lifeforce (true to Metroid fashion.) That would be awesome...and just the fear of Metroids on the field ready to attack you if you have the least amount of damage is very intimidating.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on November 20, 2005, 10:00:18 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 20, 2005, 10:05:22 AM
But then a lightning bolt doesn't really look like something that would shrink everyone. How about the POW block from Mario Bros. and SMB2? Shake up everyone who's near the ground and let them fall on their face. Plus it's avoidable by jumping (I'd make it fall really fast so avoiding isn't too easy), unlike the lightning bolt that would fry everyone. Hm, come to think of it, there is no item in SSBM that would be a guaranteed hit so it should always be possible to avoid the effect.
I'd say make it possible to stop the seeking Metroids, pick 'em up and throw them at people, that way you can avoid them and even use them for your purposes. Like the freezers.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 20, 2005, 11:11:56 AM
As for Metroids, it'd be nice if more enemies period popped out of crates a la the goombas and redeads that seem to come out once every 100 games in Melee...The Metroids would just attack anyone they flew into and would leave after a period of time...
Post by: KDR_11k on November 21, 2005, 03:36:32 AM
As for the lightning bolt, am I confused or is there not a single item that has an effect that applies to the whole map (as lightnings coming from the sky would)? I still would prefer the POW block.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 21, 2005, 04:01:44 AM
You could also have it that if you hurt the Metroid, but don't kill it, it will seek an "easier" target to kill. That way there is alittle more control over the Metroids.
Your Pow Block is an awesome idea. I think I would want the POW to do a Smash attack to everyone on the ground. If you have high damage you better jump to block it...
The Lightning Bolt has Mario Kart history as shrinking people. Nintendo fans will know exactly what the powerup does. So I don't think its that drastic to have it hit everyone, and that Randomizer (I say 30% chance it will giant everyone would be great fun.)
Also the Blue Mario Kart shell should be available to use. Throw it and it seeks out 1st place and hits them with a medium sized radius blast to nail surrounding characters.
I do think some items should only be available in 3-4 player multiplayer mayhem.
Lightning, Blue Turtle Shell, definately only 3-4 player games.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 21, 2005, 04:14:37 AM
When Smash Brothers was being rumored for the DS, one thing I hoped for was more massive battles. I would love the game have vastly varying level sizes to accompany much more action and players for online play.
If Nintendo could get an 8-12 person online Smash Brothers running smooth it would be awesome.
Then I would make the levels feel more like the adventure levels from Smash Brothers Melee. Large 2D platforming levels which several different battles can take place at once. If designed correctly, you could literally have gaps large enough in the middle of the levels to allow for ringouts and such.
These larger levels could also house different play modes not possible in the current Smash Brothers.
Race to the Finish if people battling it out.
Capture the Flag with two teams running to the other side of the field and trying to get back to their base.
Basically alot of the staple FPS modes can be converted into really interesting Smash Brothers Modes.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 21, 2005, 07:15:12 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 21, 2005, 07:50:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
As for the lightning bolt, am I confused or is there not a single item that has an effect that applies to the whole map (as lightnings coming from the sky would)? I still would prefer the POW block.
It doesn't have to strike the entire map...It can be area-restricted a la the legendary Pokemon...
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 21, 2005, 07:58:19 AM
I would love the Blue Turtle shell to do something different then just blast and shoot someone or several people off the screen. We already have a ton of items like that.
I propose a Target seeking device that when it detonates it won't smash you or even knock you out of the radius...it just causes massive amounts of damage. I am talking like 100+ damage if you take the full blow.
Post by: Zach on November 21, 2005, 10:40:03 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 21, 2005, 10:53:47 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 21, 2005, 11:17:55 AM
I know Nintendo knows this. More importantly, I know they have brainstormed a sh!tload of ideas. Combine that with the director jumping on board again and adding in the missing elements to SSBM and I think we have nothing to worry about.
And oh ya...the REV controller and Online
HYPE HYPE HYPE
Post by: Zach on November 21, 2005, 02:10:33 PM
Post by: Michael8983 on November 21, 2005, 02:21:38 PM
At best we'll just get another short adventure mode like in Melee. But as long as it has multiplayer co-op support this time around I suppose it will be innovative enough.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 21, 2005, 02:42:01 PM
The Blue Turtle Shell in Mario Kart is pretty powerful. I think it should be the weapon of choice in the game. It is an equalizing item that goes against the first place player only.
I think it completely justifies the damage...and you can put your shield up and block the blast...it will probably stun you by breaking the shield though.
This item is so much fun and should be implimented like this.
I love the idea of catching it and throwing it back...and it then seeking out who threw the item at first place. TONS of fun ideas with this.
Or how about 1st place player getting the item and throwing it only to realize its going after them!!!
HA.
Post by: Dasmos on November 21, 2005, 03:16:08 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 21, 2005, 05:13:17 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 21, 2005, 05:22:37 PM
I think everyone that is dissing this idea is having a hard time seeing it as I see it. Its not your fault. It's mine for explaining it very poorly, but in my head it is actually quite balanced and I think would be a blast as a Rare item to pop up.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 22, 2005, 03:04:25 AM
What I WOULD like are boobytrap items that look almost like normal items (slightly different but close enough that you might overlook it in the heat of the battle, perhaps a little timer-like thingy somewhere on the item) but explode when you try to use them (power obviously proportional to item power). Whereby "use" should be an actual atack with weapon-type items. Would be hilarious to see someone pick up a Super Scope, charge up his shot and explode.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 22, 2005, 04:49:23 AM
Ok. So Blue Turtle Shell seeks out first place with the speed of a faster Samus Missle, and IS avoidable. However, not catchable then.
Booby Trapped Items I think are a blast. If they can find a way to Booby Trap almost all items with different effects that could be cool. Perhaps they will blow up in your face. Or shoot attacks that actually heal. Or just fall apart when you try to use it first. Or what not.
Another item I would like is a Ghost that steals an item from someone and gives it to you. Or just use the Ghosts are one of the Booby Trap devices. You pick up the weapon and right when you use it, a Ghost comes and steals it.
Post by: IceCold on November 22, 2005, 11:17:49 AM
QuoteIf you want it to be a "test of wit and skill" then just turn off the items!
Games need no "great equalizer" because games should be a test of player wit and skill, not who has the least equalizers used against him.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 22, 2005, 11:45:42 AM
Post by: ShawnSt3r on November 22, 2005, 05:26:12 PM
I am genuinely pumped about this, finely a chance to truly test my reflexes and not be limited by thumbsticks on a controller.
If it doesnt have a completely different control setup your all welcome to come egg my house and I will provide the eggs. =)
Post by: KDR_11k on November 22, 2005, 10:00:33 PM
Someone mentioned turning the controller sideways and tilting left or right will make you run left or right, that would give you unparallalled percision.
NO. You can't get any less precise, except maybe with that godawful M64DS virtual analog. Tilting the controller as a replacement for an analog stick is what Microsoft did for the Freestyle Pro. There's a reason they abandoned that method after a single attempt.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 23, 2005, 04:32:14 AM
Now, granted I think one of the biggest reasons they incorporated new moves with each character was to balance out the control difficulties of the portable.
Smash Brothers though is the one game I don't understand how Nintendo will be incorporating the new controller for. Perhaps it will be the game that a Controller shell is packed in with.
Post by: ShawnSt3r on November 23, 2005, 05:11:22 AM
The Freestle Pro was hardly a precision instrument. If the Revo controller is as precise and intuitive as developers and media who have gotten their hands on it say it is, tilting the controller to direct your characters movements on screen is not only possible but very probable.
Post by: IceCold on November 23, 2005, 08:12:31 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 24, 2005, 04:20:25 AM
As IceCold said, the resistance is an important feedback that the rod can't give.
Post by: ShawnSt3r on November 24, 2005, 06:25:37 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 25, 2005, 03:44:20 AM
Post by: cubist on December 02, 2005, 03:13:42 PM
So it all boils down to...
If Super Smash Bros. REVOLUTION has just started in the development cycle, when will this game be finished? Iwata also stated that it is a launch title...does this mean the Revolution is coming out late 2006 to early 2007? Last question...does anyone have any idea who this mysterious development house IS that is helping with game? Supposedly they just finished a major game and have logged in major hours.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 02, 2005, 03:28:57 PM
LOL Shadow the Hedgehog was recently finished.
So was VJ Red Hot Rumble.
Post by: cubist on December 02, 2005, 03:56:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Soul Calibur III was recently finished.
LOL Shadow the Hedgehog was recently finished.
So was VJ Red Hot Rumble.
Soul Caliber III? They've had at least 2 years to finish (if not more). We're talking about a development cycle that may be less than a year if the REV is to launch in 2006 at all...assuming that they just started in October.
Shadow? It was announced over a year ago. VJ RHR? Not sure...but Smash Bros. is not your ordinary game. It is more special than Shadow and VJ.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 02, 2005, 06:23:52 PM
~~~~~~
I expect HAL to be busy with Kirby GC [UNLESS THEY MANAGED TO FINISH THAT ALREADY...]
And it's arguable that Intelligent Systems is "free" after finishing Fire Emblem.
VJ2 came out a year after VJ1. VJ RHR came out a year after VJ2.
EDIT: Heck, I don't really know when they started dev. on SSB3 anyway. Who knows.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 02, 2005, 08:09:14 PM
Post by: majortom1981 on December 03, 2005, 02:46:36 AM
"Miyamoto introduced me to a 'particular company' that had just finished development of a major game," Sakurai said, adding further that said company was quick to sign up with him on the project"
This quote is fro ma recent interview with Masahiro Sakurai .
I want to know who this company is . he says he cant say who it is yet.
Post by: ThePerm on December 04, 2005, 07:48:24 AM
so nintendo and sakurai started an entirely new company just to create smash bros rev?
http://cube.ign.com/articles/673/673312p1.html
research i did!!
Post by: couchmonkey on December 05, 2005, 05:20:43 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 05, 2005, 05:24:38 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on December 28, 2005, 09:19:56 AM
Wasn't there supposed to be some weekly Famitsu development update?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 28, 2005, 11:33:30 AM
