Post by: Rancid Planet on August 06, 2005, 09:39:36 PM
Nothing too big that the fansites haven't covered yet but still a lot of cool extra stuff for you non EGM subscribers.
Post by: TMW on August 06, 2005, 09:48:17 PM
Interesting!
Post by: Rancid Planet on August 06, 2005, 10:19:31 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 06, 2005, 10:54:27 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 07, 2005, 05:10:51 AM
Post by: stevey on August 07, 2005, 10:53:21 AM
HOW DARE HE CALL SHIGERU MIYAMOTO A FAILURER!
"EGM: What about this: If you could only save one of your babies from a burning building--Mario, Link or Donkey Kong--who would you save?
SM: [Thinks for a moment] Well, if I saved Link, I'm sure the other two could get out on their own. [Laughs]
EGM: And Link couldn't?
SM: He's too cute. [I'd need to help him]"
That sound like bill O_o
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2005, 06:38:19 PM
. But with Link it's like, the hookshot can only go so far!
Post by: IceCold on August 07, 2005, 07:28:20 PM
QuoteGoron Tunic?
Originally posted by: TVman
Well Donkey Kong could just climb out. Mario would put out the fire with FLUDD
EDIT: End Quote!
Post by: KDR_11k on August 07, 2005, 08:34:01 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on August 08, 2005, 01:02:55 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on August 08, 2005, 03:28:25 AM
There's something to be said for innocence, wonder and childlike courage. "Big, strong and capable" belongs in any of 94683243 other generic game characters.
Post by: stevey on August 08, 2005, 05:29:57 AM
No just ww link isn't cute hes funny. All of the zelda had kid link and all of them are cute. He justed was thinking of the ff link since that was the lasted zelda.
"While I love than incarnation of Link as much as anyone I don't view it as what Link should be represented as. Link should be thought of as capable and strong. Two things that kids are not"
so he can be cute and strong at the same time
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 08, 2005, 05:34:32 AM
"EGM: What about this: If you could only save one of your babies from a burning building--Mario, Link or Donkey Kong--who would you save?
SM: [Thinks for a moment] Well, if I saved Link, I'm sure the other two could get out on their own. [Laughs]
EGM: And Link couldn't?
SM: He's too cute. [I'd need to help him]"
That sound like bill O_o
Yes, it does... ^_^
Post by: MysticGohan24 on August 08, 2005, 09:14:19 AM
LoZ:AoL Link was an adult, or 16 but he sure wasn't a child. And I'm not sure, but he didn't look like a child in LoZ, might be in his Teens, hard to tell.
And ALTTP, Link wasn't a child either, I'm not sure of his age, but the manual art would put him in his teens. it was the limitations that made Link in the game look the way he did.
In essence, Child Link didn't really appeared till OOT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past I never heard/seen link below age 9. TP isn't cashing in on anything that hasn't been established over time.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 08, 2005, 09:31:17 AM
In fact, most of the Zeldas avoid discussing his true age. The only two that ever make hint of his age are OoT and I think The Legend of Zelda 2...which states that he is older because of the darker theme of the story.
When people say Link is a kid, nobody means he is like 5 or 6...but that he is still of the adventurous stages in life. He still sees the world as a place of wonder and magic, which is an obvious main theme of Zelda. When you make a character older you take that aspect way from story. It then becomes a young man or adult on a more serious mission. The feeling of the world and story are completely lost.
I think that is why this Zelda game has Link turning into a Wolf. It brings the fantasy and magic back into the mix.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 08, 2005, 09:38:56 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on August 08, 2005, 09:57:03 AM
I'll give you LOZ:AoL but not much else. There's a reason OoT started out with Young Link... it's because Zelda has almost always started out that way.
Edit: I was right. Check the SSBM Young Link trophy description.
Post by: stevey on August 08, 2005, 10:46:16 AM
so every manual art shows him like that (but oot,mm,ww,ff) but there not all the same link. Miyamoto says hes a kid over and over.
"And ALTTP, Link wasn't a child either,"
no in the game its say hes a child.
Post by: MattVDB on August 08, 2005, 11:47:44 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 08, 2005, 01:50:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rancid Planet
I was disturbed by the "too cute, I'd have to save him" bit. Obviously Shigy's mental concept of Link is closer to the Wind Waker version than I'd like. While I love than incarnation of Link as much as anyone I don't view it as what Link should be represented as. Link should be thought of as capable and strong. Two things that kids are not...I just totally nerded out didn't I?
You're one of those guys who wants Zelda to be what it's not. Link was a kid in EVERY game up until Ocarina. Miyamoto's entire vision of The Legend of Zelda is based around a kid who is forced to grow up very fast in order to save the [insert location here].
Post by: MysticGohan24 on August 08, 2005, 02:37:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
I'm sorry, MysticGohan24. Given the number of "I don't know", "would"s and "hard to tell"s in your post, you fail at proving anything.
I'll give you LOZ:AoL but not much else. There's a reason OoT started out with Young Link... it's because Zelda has almost always started out that way.
Edit: I was right. Check the SSBM Young Link trophy description.
Actually I did not pally
It just wasn't specific, cep's AoL. But everyone believes oot was the first to have an adult link. Which is to say not entirely accurate. OOT's link is 16/17 yrs old, about the same age as Link in AoL. I'm going by the Manual artwork for
ALTTP, It can be said he's a kid, but not a child in ways people would view a person under 12.
I didn't fail at anything, except Miyamoto's defination of a "child" But either way it's all good. I personally loved both.
Post by: Rancid Planet on August 08, 2005, 03:10:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Rancid Planet
I was disturbed by the "too cute, I'd have to save him" bit. Obviously Shigy's mental concept of Link is closer to the Wind Waker version than I'd like. While I love than incarnation of Link as much as anyone I don't view it as what Link should be represented as. Link should be thought of as capable and strong. Two things that kids are not...I just totally nerded out didn't I?
You're one of those guys who wants Zelda to be what it's not. Link was a kid in EVERY game up until Ocarina. Miyamoto's entire vision of The Legend of Zelda is based around a kid who is forced to grow up very fast in order to save the [insert location here].
Yeah and you're one of those guys that thinks your opinion is more valid than mine because you say so.
I didn't claim to state any facts. I just gave my opinion. Which is this...When I think of Link, "cute" isn't the first word that pops into my head. And you know what? I GET to think that all I want. Yes I do. Because it's MY head and I can think of Mario as a bad ass pimp if I want. I can think if Samus as a two dollar skank if I want. It doesn't make it fact, it just makes it what I think. That's why they came up with the word "opinion" so people could have a term for saying what they think without claiming that it's a fact.
And I'm not just going off on you here Dark Tempo. As a regular on many, many forums, I have gotten really sick lately of people wanting me to only have THIER opinion on things and only phrase those opinions usuing the words and terms that THEY would use. Some of you people need to learn to discuss things without getting your panties in a wad. Confrontation is one thing, but I'd rather be questioned as to what my reasoning is when I give my thoughts on something. Not told what kind of person I am, what I think, or what appendage of theirs I can suck on.
If some of you WANT to think of Link as someone who is so helpless that he couldn't escape from a burning building, meanwhile the Plumber and the Gorilla are fine, go ahead. I don't care what you think. I may ask WHY you think that out of simple curiosity but you're not going to get any "You are 1 OF DOSE PEEPHOLE WHO TEH SUK AND I H8!" comments out of me. Because I like to converse, not attack.
Post by: ruby_onix on August 08, 2005, 05:55:54 PM
The Link of the original "The Legend of Zelda" on the NES is supposed to be 10 years old. The game did not do a very good job of conveying that. I don't think it even tried. The official artwork for the game is a little bit goofy, and he looks more like a hobbit than a human of any particular age. Upon first finding out that Link was supposed to be 10 years old in the original Zelda, most people that I've seen seem surprised.
The Link of "Zelda II: Link's Adventure" on the NES is the same one as above, but at 16 years old. Sixteen seems to be seen as still a "kid" by Western standards, but it seems to be a popular "coming of age" point in Japan. In-game in Zelda II, Link looks about right for 16 year old, as he does in the artwork. I've talked to a couple of people who weren't even aware that there was a time gap in between Zelda 1&2. They just assumed that Zelda had been cursed in the ending of Zelda 1, and that they had forgotten it.
The Link of the animated cartoon shown in America appears to be the 16 year old version of the Link who starred in the original two games, except that he appears to be in some parallel world where Gannon didn't go after the Princess at the age of 10, so Link never defeated him at the age of 10, Zelda and Gannon retain their respective Triforces, and Link has never had the need to seek out his own Triforce.
The Link of "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past" (set long before the original NES games) on the SNES is a new Link, who is apparently 16 years old, based on the official artwork, and the later-revealed fact that you can't wield the Master Sword until you're at least 16.
(The Link of the LTTP manga/comic which appeared in Nintendo Power around the time of the game's release is from LTTP (obviously), and while he looks young, he's much closer to sixteen than ten.)
The Link of "The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening" on the GameBoy is the same Link as above, with no significant time delay, meaning he's not much older than 16.
The Link of the CD-i Zelda games appears to be the same Link as above, based on the official artwork, but might not be, as they're definitely not considered "canon". He appears to be 16.
"The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time" (set long before the SNES game) on the N64 was the first game to include both a "young" and an "adult" Link. The fully-apparent 10 year old version drew a great deal of confusion and uncomfortability from many at the time, but it was offset by the awsomeness of the game. Many people also found comfort in the fact that you could sometimes play as the 16 year old "adult" Link, who had been given a "mature" quality to him, beyond any of his 16 year old predecessors.
The Link of "Majora's Mask" on the N64 was the 10 year old version of the same Link as above, without the time travel aspect which gave birth to the 16 year old version.
The Link of the Capcom-developed "Oracle" games on the GBC has the same in-game sprite as the Link from Link's Awakening (which was the 16 year old LTTP Link), but that's just because the Oracle games were built off the Link's Awakening game engine. The official artwork shows him as being clearly younger than the Link's Awakening Link, and he is most likely 10 years old. This new Link is later revealed to be from the distant past of The Minish Cap, which is the distant past of the "Four Swords" games.
The Link of "The Wind Waker" on the GameCube is a new Link, 10 years old, now with the childish nature of the series exponentially increased through cel-shading. This caused a schism to explode within the Zelda fanbase, with "adult Link" being held up as the poster child of a side tired of putting up with the 10 year old version, and "original intent" being the rallying cry of the other side, due to the age of the Link in the original NES game.
Four Swords (on the GBA), Four Swords Adventures (on the GameCube), and The Minish Cap (on the GBA), all use official art in the style of the cel-shaded Wind Waker, despite not being cel-shaded, and feature in-game art that looks like a cross between A Link to the Past and The Wind Waker. They are all most likely 10 years old.
Although the bulk of Zelda games and popularity are seemingly revolving around the 16 year old version, Shigeru Miyamoto is apparently on the "10 year old" side of the fence. The return of "adult Link" in Twilight Princess (technically an older version of the cel-shaded Wind Waker Link) seems to be a concession.
I personally wish there wasn't a fence.
Edit: Fixed some mess.
Post by: nickmitch on August 08, 2005, 06:55:05 PM
P.S.: I know a girl who thinks the Link is cute. . .Or total hottie, I can't rember what she said.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 08, 2005, 06:57:16 PM
That's good enough for me.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 08, 2005, 07:33:40 PM
You got the history in really nicely but you made a small mistake here...The in-game sprite is that of Link's Awakening, but that's mainly due to Flagship using the same engine, and not a means of classifying age...Also, you really think Link looks 16 in the artwork?
Post by: Caterkiller on August 08, 2005, 08:51:53 PM
Anyway I dont care much for that, but what I found most interesting in the interview was Miyamoto's top 3 games. I don't remember the 1st(even though my EGM is only one room away and I could easily check) but it was probably A Link to the Past, second was Super Mario World, last and what surprised me most was Star Fox 64. I had no idea he loved the game that much. With that being said I would have thought he wouldn't let Star Fox Assault out the door with out it being at least the same quality as Star Fox 64. Star Fox, was the only franchise of his that I can think of that took a huge step backwards in quality this generation.
Post by: ruby_onix on August 08, 2005, 09:49:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
You got the history in really nicely but you made a small mistake here...The in-game sprite is that of Link's Awakening, but that's mainly due to Flagship using the same engine, and not a means of classifying age...
Ah yes. I knew I was going to have to slip a mistake in there somewhere.
The Link sprite from Link's Awakening was roughly similar to the sprite in the original game (compared to Zelda II and LTTP), and then reused in the Oracle games. But that's all irrelevant because they were used due to hardware limitations.
Quote
Also, you really think Link looks 16 in the artwork?
I had remembered the art style being generally based on the LTTP-ish art style, which it is, but looking at it, Link (and Zelda too) looks quite deliberately younger than other games with the similar art style.
So Link is most likely 10 years old in the Oracle games.
Also, I should probably list the Oracle games after Ocarina of Time, as they came out later.
Post by: ruby_onix on August 08, 2005, 10:29:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Zelda has a green dude that whacks things with a sword, and does amazing stuffs and kills amazing things.
That's good enough for me.
They're probably gonna give Tingle a sword to play with in Twilight Princess, and then you're gonna be sorry you said that.
Post by: IceCold on August 08, 2005, 11:42:16 PM
QuoteHahahaha...You got a link for Link's picture, and then linked it under the word "Link," thereby creating a pun! Such brilliance!
Originally posted by: Bill
Also, you really think Link looks 16 in the artwork?
EDIT: What the hell is it with quotes today?
Post by: Rancid Planet on August 09, 2005, 12:07:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onixQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Zelda has a green dude that whacks things with a sword, and does amazing stuffs and kills amazing things.
That's good enough for me.
They're probably gonna give Tingle a sword to play with in Twilight Princess, and then you're gonna be sorry you said that.
In the new EGM it also says that there will be no Tingle in TP. I cannot begin to tell you how sad that makes me.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2005, 12:31:06 AM
http://www.wingkong.net/newpics/lopan9.jpg
then I'd have no problem with it.
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2005, 04:59:33 AM
WE WERE VERY NAUGHTY! ... AND WE LIKED IT
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2005, 06:03:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caterkiller
With that being said I would have thought he wouldn't let Star Fox Assault out the door with out it being at least the same quality as Star Fox 64. Star Fox, was the only franchise of his that I can think of that took a huge step backwards in quality this generation.
If it's any consolation, I thought the flight missions were vastly improved in Assault...And I'm sure Miyamoto will watch over the next game more closely...
Post by: stevey on August 09, 2005, 06:05:57 AM
You based most of it on the artwork but the artwork dosen't mean anything look at megaman for the nes artwork it look like a man but it a kid; and it goes loz->loz:la->loz gbc game->loz2 with the same link. lttp link just use the same art as the other because they didn't want to wasted money draw new art. and oot link 10-17->mm13->tp(son of the oot link)->ww10
"I was disturbed by the "too cute, I'd have to save him" bit. Obviously Shigy's mental concept of Link is closer to the Wind Waker version than I'd like."
I think it closer to ff than ww.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 09, 2005, 11:26:57 AM
That must've been fallen to revisionist history because both the LoZ and Windwaker Links can use the Master Sword though the Master Sword concept (as it exists today, as the only weapon that can defeat Ganon) probably didn't exist when the first LoZ was made, it was the "Magical Sword" back then.
Post by: ruby_onix on August 09, 2005, 01:32:36 PM
Plus, seeing as how the original Zelda game's defeat of Gannon is the only one that's currently holding, I'm thinking that the Magical Sword might be more powerful than the Master Sword.
As for the Wind Waker... I need to get back to playing that. I really suck at finishing games lately. -_-;;
Post by: stevey on August 09, 2005, 01:40:24 PM
That must've been fallen to revisionist history because both the LoZ and Windwaker Links can use the Master Sword though the Master Sword concept (as it exists today, as the only weapon that can defeat Ganon) probably didn't exist when the first LoZ was made, it was the "Magical Sword" back then. "
never dose it say that in any zelda. The resone you sent in time to the future because that oot link was too weak to fight gannondolf and not of age.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 09, 2005, 10:26:47 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on August 10, 2005, 06:03:27 AM
Ultimately, I think Nintendo doesn't care about this stuff...I think the guys at Nintendo are more interested in recreating the feeling of The Legend of Zelda. That is, a young man/boy who starts out on this incredible adventure and rises from nobody to hero. The story is a nice way to frame that, and there are certain legendary elements (the Princess, the Triforce, and Ganon) that figure into most of the plots, but the series is more about adventuring and exploring than story.
That's something about videogames that I feel is being lost: this is not the same medium as television or movies, so why is it that so many game developers feel the path to making better games is to have complex plots and Hollywood voice actors? A good story is a nice bonus but it's not at the heart of the art of videogames.
Edit: typos.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 10, 2005, 07:17:42 AM
Post by: vudu on August 10, 2005, 09:05:51 AM
QuoteActually, I believe the Silver Arrows are what kill Ganon in both the original game and LttP.
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
and the later-revealed fact that you can't wield the Master Sword until you're at least 16.
That must've been fallen to revisionist history because both the LoZ and Windwaker Links can use the Master Sword though the Master Sword concept (as it exists today, as the only weapon that can defeat Ganon) probably didn't exist when the first LoZ was made, it was the "Magical Sword" back then.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 10, 2005, 09:35:30 AM
Post by: TMW on August 10, 2005, 09:41:24 AM
Miyamoto obviously sees Link as a young boy...who can save a kingdom from a Evil Sorceror, but can't escape from a burning building.
?
Anyways. Whether he's 10 or 16, Link can still kick all of our asses, so lets just move on, shall we.
Post by: Gamebasher on August 12, 2005, 07:33:43 AM
Zelda for Rev confirmed
I am already starting to drool!
Post by: MANTI5 on August 12, 2005, 10:14:32 AM
Post by: stevey on August 12, 2005, 01:24:51 PM
there are more than one blades of evil bain.
Zelda for Rev confirmed "Which may surprise some people, so long as they have never played a Zelda game, studied Nintendo's prior record with their big name franchises or been outside their hermetically sealed germ-free bubble. "
what are they talkin about?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 12, 2005, 02:16:55 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 12, 2005, 03:47:44 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 12, 2005, 05:11:14 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on August 13, 2005, 05:01:24 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on August 14, 2005, 10:24:53 PM
I wonder if that Mr. T was inspired by a real person?
