Post by: nemo_83 on August 04, 2005, 06:16:47 PM
wikipedia definition of the term, marionette
I don't know where this came from or when, but this is awesome.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 04, 2005, 06:28:15 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 04, 2005, 06:36:16 PM
I'm not saying this is some leaked video, but it has a lot of heart and imagination despite its roughness. Its the big idea that counts; not the big budget.
Also if you read on wikipedia you will also see the origin of the title Super Mario. We've played Super Mario World; what about Super Mario Nation?
" you destroyed my dreams..." lol; i totally set out to scar you for life
Post by: nickmitch on August 04, 2005, 07:54:11 PM
Post by: ThePerm on August 04, 2005, 08:38:15 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 04, 2005, 08:48:54 PM
Post by: IceCold on August 04, 2005, 08:58:58 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 05, 2005, 11:08:56 AM
Post by: nickmitch on August 05, 2005, 11:12:47 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 05, 2005, 11:32:05 AM
The name Super Mario was ripped straight from the term supermarionation.
Post by: Dasmos on August 05, 2005, 04:48:42 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 05, 2005, 05:16:33 PM
Nintendo chose the name as an allusion to marionettes. They aren't stupid at Nintendo; they knew what they were doing when they chose the name.
The origin of the term is related to none other than Harryhausen...wait for it, the man who did the stop motion animation for the 1933 King Kong; Nintendo also created a game before Super Mario Bros, some people here might remember called Donkey Kong, which was based off of King Kong. Art inspires art, it doesn't come out of thin air. The term supermarionation is a modification of the term superdynamation.
Also I want to quote wikipedia. "The control mechanisms were originally placed within the puppets' heads, which meant the heads had to be disproportionately large compared to the bodies, like many comic strip characters."
Post by: Dasmos on August 05, 2005, 07:17:29 PM
Oh and surely Mario Segali is just a side thought to the naming.
Post by: mantidor on August 05, 2005, 07:32:14 PM
Post by: Mario on August 05, 2005, 07:34:05 PM
SM = Shigeru Miyamoto
Post by: mantidor on August 05, 2005, 07:36:36 PM
Post by: KirbySStar on August 05, 2005, 08:19:10 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 05, 2005, 08:22:22 PM
Chew on THAT for a while.
Post by: TMW on August 05, 2005, 08:30:59 PM
...I'll stop now.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 05, 2005, 10:30:00 PM
The theme is expressed in the gameplay and obviously Nintendo has plans to make a more marionette themed Mario game.
Imagine if this concept were taken to the nth degree; I'm talking the RS. A smaller lighter helmet using a gyro, wifi, standard 480p stereoscopic 3d graphics, a mic, and suround sound. Way better graphics of course, a camera to track additional hand, head, and body movements similar to Sony's new eyetoy that can see 3d, and gyros in the controller prongs.
You can play most games like Castlevania and swing the whip around in 3d. Zelda, Metroid, Smash Brothers, Pikmin; is there a game that this would not work well with?
Did you check out some of the other videos of other IPs?
index
Post by: Artimus on August 06, 2005, 04:44:05 AM
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2005, 09:40:07 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 06, 2005, 12:00:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
I'll give you zelda and metroid but smash bros and pikmin? SM would be too hard and strenuous. And being able to move pikmin around with the c-stick is important.
Smash Bros would be the first real fighting game ever. You would simply run up and throw any punch you want or swing a weapon exactly as you want. There could still be some buttons on the controller, but mostly you could program any "move" to be triggered by specific poses.
In Pikmin you would be able to reach into 3d and select with your fingers, virtually, which Pikmin you want, and then use the mic to tell them what to do.
I hope Nintendo gets some Blizzard games on the REV.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 06, 2005, 12:03:18 PM
Sounds great!
Post by: UncleBob on August 06, 2005, 06:11:05 PM
On another note, "Super Mario Nation" seems to fit well with the "Revolution"....
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2005, 06:37:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
I'll give you zelda and metroid but smash bros and pikmin? SM would be too hard and strenuous. And being able to move pikmin around with the c-stick is important.
Smash Bros would be the first real fighting game ever. You would simply run up and throw any punch you want or swing a weapon exactly as you want. There could still be some buttons on the controller, but mostly you could program any "move" to be triggered by specific poses.
In Pikmin you would be able to reach into 3d and select with your fingers, virtually, which Pikmin you want, and then use the mic to tell them what to do.
I hope Nintendo gets some Blizzard games on the REV.
Yeah, but would actually fighting get tiring sometimes? I wouldn't be able to play for five hours at a time anymore!
And if you and your pikmin were walking along a narrow bridge, then how could you keep them in line? Plus, if you needed a specific color and in a hurry but those four yellow pikmin are waaay in the back then you'd have to go a reach for them but by then the electric buggy might have already gotten you. With the controller you can select exactly which one you want by holding A and pressing the D-pad.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 06, 2005, 10:51:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: nemo_83Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
I'll give you zelda and metroid but smash bros and pikmin? SM would be too hard and strenuous. And being able to move pikmin around with the c-stick is important.
Smash Bros would be the first real fighting game ever. You would simply run up and throw any punch you want or swing a weapon exactly as you want. There could still be some buttons on the controller, but mostly you could program any "move" to be triggered by specific poses.
In Pikmin you would be able to reach into 3d and select with your fingers, virtually, which Pikmin you want, and then use the mic to tell them what to do.
I hope Nintendo gets some Blizzard games on the REV.
Yeah, but would actually fighting get tiring sometimes? I wouldn't be able to play for five hours at a time anymore!
And if you and your pikmin were walking along a narrow bridge, then how could you keep them in line? Plus, if you needed a specific color and in a hurry but those four yellow pikmin are waaay in the back then you'd have to go a reach for them but by then the electric buggy might have already gotten you. With the controller you can select exactly which one you want by holding A and pressing the D-pad.
I don't think it is healthy to sit and play any game for five hours. At least if you're moving around you'll get some exercise. Part of the point is to get gamers off their asses. Gaming has an image problem even today; it is seen as a sedintary activity.
And in Pikmin or any RTS your perspective is above the characters so that you have optimal access to the characters.
"On another note, "Super Mario Nation" seems to fit well with the "Revolution".... "
It does sound right, but they could just as easily go with the Marionette thing which also works as an online pun. Perhaps the word marionette is too big of a word though. I posted a topic on nintendo.com on this and the I LOVE HALO 2s over there; it went right over their heads. I gave the definition to the word and they still couldn't put it together.
"A fighting game like that would simply be fighitng"
With the controls used along with a camera, well the controls can become virtual. You can simulate some wild sci fi mechanics inside the game that we can't build. Imagine controlling the movement in a fps with your left arm as if you had a wireless flightstick device in your hand, but only in the game, and able to do more than any tilt and turn flight stick. If you wanted to make the character jump you could simply lift your arm verticle and it would measure the movement and translate it to full analog in the game. So much can be done with just one arm and not even considering the triggers or buttons they might put on the handles.
This makes me want to know what Nintenod is doing badly; I am in danger of actually being disappointed because this video has given me so many ideas for what could be done with technology now.
Post by: Dasmos on August 07, 2005, 12:35:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
"On another note, "Super Mario Nation" seems to fit well with the "Revolution".... "
It does sound right, but they could just as easily go with the Marionette thing which also works as an online pun. Perhaps the word marionette is too big of a word though. I posted a topic on nintendo.com on this and the I LOVE HALO 2s over there; it went right over their heads. I gave the definition to the word and they still couldn't put it together.
They wouldn't understand it because it doesn't make sense.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 07, 2005, 01:04:23 PM
How the video demonstrates a type of gameplay that is much more equivalent to puppeteering a virtual character than can be done with a bunch of buttons?
How the words Mario and Marionette connect? It was the name given to a secret game by Nintendo and was said to be a marionette themed game. Best guess is that whatever that secret was that they didn't want the competition to know about; it went on to become a heavy influence over what the Revolution became.
Post by: Artimus on August 07, 2005, 04:02:04 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 07, 2005, 04:40:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
The video shows a better version of 'acting stupid while in a big character suit' than marionette contorl. You use a stick to control marionettes, often with levers and pulleys much like buttons.
Just because the technology changes doesn't change the fact it is puppetry. You're movements are tracked by the camera and any internal sensors.
Post by: Artimus on August 07, 2005, 05:31:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
The video shows a better version of 'acting stupid while in a big character suit' than marionette contorl. You use a stick to control marionettes, often with levers and pulleys much like buttons.
Just because the technology changes doesn't change the fact it is puppetry. You're movements are tracked by the camera and any internal sensors.
Just because your movements are confined to a joypad doesn't mean a controller isn't puppetry.
I doubt you've the first clue about real puppetry.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 07, 2005, 06:49:38 PM
Even when a real marionette is being puppeteered the operator must use his/her entire body for the performance and not just the fingers. The thing is that true marionation is a craft that must be learned where the example I am giving with the video, the computer allows you to control the character literally without knowing techniques; the cpu does the work. By moving your body and arms around you are literally telling the computer what you want the character's arms and body to do.
It does not matter whether you puppeteer the character with one camera or three cameras or if the controller is a small puppet that you move around that gives you the measurments you need to tell the computer what you want the digital character on screen to do; its still a form of puppeteering.
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2005, 07:14:33 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 07, 2005, 07:34:38 PM
Post by: The Omen on August 07, 2005, 07:55:08 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on August 07, 2005, 08:32:17 PM
Post by: Dasmos on August 08, 2005, 12:51:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
What do you not understand?
How the video demonstrates a type of gameplay that is much more equivalent to puppeteering a virtual character than can be done with a bunch of buttons?
How the words Mario and Marionette connect? It was the name given to a secret game by Nintendo and was said to be a marionette themed game. Best guess is that whatever that secret was that they didn't want the competition to know about; it went on to become a heavy influence over what the Revolution became.
The video yes, but this video is not a real game. The video is more of an equilavent to a giant costumed mickey mouse moving around than a puppet.
What puppet moves it's arm forward when we move an arm forward, moves it head when we move our head, moves it legs when we move our legs and jumps when we jumps? None I have ever heard of.
Those things happen when you're in giant Mario suit, so what I am trying to say is that this movie is closer to an virtual costumed animal than a puppet.
You can make assumtions about videogames are actually virtual puppets that we control buttons, but can this be said for a car? We can steer the car by using the steering wheels, does this make the car a puppet? We can turn the sound up on a stereo, is sound our puppet? No..
Post by: KDR_11k on August 08, 2005, 10:17:24 AM
Imagine the possibilities! Wait... I just thought about the furry use... exscuse m- *runs to bathroom, throws up*
Post by: nickmitch on August 08, 2005, 07:09:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Actually I was thinking it would help so that thousands can be controlled at once.
Just how in the heck would that help control k's of pikmin!?! You're controlling Olimar in the game and he has short little arms!
Post by: nemo_83 on August 12, 2005, 06:47:37 PM
Ratial stereotype of a super vs allusion to supermarionation.
"The video yes, but this video is not a real game. The video is more of an equilavent to a giant costumed mickey mouse moving around than a puppet."
It is a video of a real game these people made. The suit is not required, its only for show.
"Just how in the heck would that help control k's of pikmin!?! You're controlling Olimar in the game and he has short little arms!"
Even in Pikmin on Cube using sticks you select the Pikmin from a distance, but using sound rather than having to touch the Pikmin you want to direct.
Post by: The Omen on August 12, 2005, 10:36:48 PM
Quote
Ratial stereotype of a super vs allusion to supermarionation.
It is a racial stereotype, but Shiggy himself spoke about it. His name was Mario Seguli, or something aloing those lines. I believe in Donkey Kong, Mario is Mario 's'. Or some other game...ah, what the hell does it matter?
I actually choose to believe this.... http://www.aethiamud.org/communist_mario/
Post by: nemo_83 on August 12, 2005, 11:30:35 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 13, 2005, 05:19:26 PM
I guess that could work.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 14, 2005, 12:18:00 AM
Post by: stevey on August 14, 2005, 02:48:43 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 14, 2005, 07:27:55 PM
