Its in french, but its a translation from egm according to the site. The site gets there information from reliable websites as well as magazines.
Shigeru Miyamoto
-Miyamoto was focussing on nintendo gamecube hense the reason mario 128 has been pushed to revolution
- The point of the revolution is to allow inovation and not only a graphical leap
- Miyamoto's team is in the works on a super smash bros for ds
- A new luigi game is in the works
- No new pikmin game is not in the works but the revolution interface would be ideal for such a game
- Myamoto wants to build a game utilising stage debut( technology that allows you to graph 3d images into games)
Satoru Iwata
- The online connection of the revolution will be as easy as the ds
- Mario Party Online might take flight on revolution
- Revolution has no ethernet port
- The graphics of the revolution should be on par with xbox 360 or playstation 3
- Some downloadable games will be playable online
I would use babel fish to translate but its not working
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: pudu on July 23, 2005, 11:05:05 AM
Hmm I was just looking @ ps3forums.com and ran into what I think is the same thing (LINK)
The person who posted it said it came from EGM via Eurogamer forums
This is only the Miyamoto part of the interview though:
Quote EGM: Some people are saying Nintendo has given up trying to lead technologically and is focused on innovation.
SM: I don't think the Revolution's (graphics) will be inferior in any fashion to Xbox 360 or PS3. Even if you look at Zelda on GameCube - I don't think that looks inferior to what the competition is touting as "next generation" visuals. But we think there are more important things for now than making the system work with a high-definition television. The majority of people won't be playing our system with an HDTV, (though) with the Revolution, 480p resolution will be standard. We are not making light of graphics and technology - we are trying to make the best-balanced machine that will appeal to the most people.
EGM: Why make the DVD player optional with Revolution? And how will it work - is it an attachment or a remote or what?
SM: The majority of households already own a DVD player or two. We don't want them to spend extra money just to have a console which happens to have DVD capability. And the DVD player isn't going to be an attachment; it’s going to go inside the machine so you won't even (be able to) tell the difference.
EGM: You've promised Wi-Fi for the Revolution but will it also have a standard Ethernet port?
SM: (No, it) doesn't have an Ethernet port. However, through the USB port, it’s possible to have Ethernet with an adapter. Considering where the machine will be placed in the household, we think it would be difficult for people to route the typical Ethernet line to it. Also, We're considering connecting the DS with the Revolution via Wi-Fi.
EGM: Moving on to other games--we know Smash Bros. is coming to the Revolution, but what about DS?
SM: We're thinking about it.
EGM: What about Luigi's Mansion? Is that series over, or will we ever see another?
SM: The director often says, "Make another one! Make another one!" and I want to use Luigi again.
EGM: Any chance we'll see another Pikmin?
SM: Nothings set in stone yet, but the interface we're creating for the Revolution is well suited for Pikmin - I think it would be a good match. Not much I can say other than that.
EGM: Will we ever see anything more of Stage Debut? (a technology demo that allowed players to map their face on in-game characters)?
SM: Yeah, I want to do something with it.
EGM: Speaking of the virtual console, might older offline multiplayer games, like Mario Party, be altered so you could play them online with the Revolution?
SM: We know that we will offer the past games for sure. But we are discussing the possibility of having older games like Mario party playable online. So if our discussion goes well, and if the technical aspects of Revolution also go well, that's possible.
EGM: You've said the Revolution controller will be unique - do you worry about it alienating developers? Say Splinter Cell comes out for all the next-gen systems; might the Revolution controller be so different that it'd be tough to map the controls onto?
SM: Well, of course, the idea is that the Revolution will sell and sell and sell so it becomes the standard in the industry. (Smiles) However, at least for the launch period...we designed the controller so it can play any of the different conventional styles. After all, we are talking about it playing games from our past machines (ie the virtual console). So don't worry.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: nickmitch on July 23, 2005, 11:40:50 AM
Liking this:
Quote However, at least for the launch period...we designed the controller so it can play any of the different conventional styles. After all, we are talking about it playing games from our past machines (ie the virtual console). So don't worry.
And just the other day I was thinking about a game starring Luigi with Waluigi as the main villain.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: nemo_83 on July 23, 2005, 01:09:17 PM
The idea of another Luigi Mansion = bad
Why, because there need to be fewer Mario Bros games and the Mario Bros need to be together in all Mario Bros games.
The new interface will benefit the new Pikmin = good
Obviously refering to either a trackball or gyro for mouse functions.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: couchmonkey on July 23, 2005, 01:13:39 PM
Interesting. If the second article is the actual translation, then he didn't really say the system would be as powerful as the others, he just gave some smoke and mirrors about how even Zelda looks as good as a 360 or PS3 game. I'm betting on Rev to be the least powerful console of the next gen, but maybe not by a wide margin. People will notice more that Nintendo focuses on cartoony graphics than that the system is actually less powerful.
I'm glad to hear the controller will play any type of game, that puts many fears to rest. Overall, seems like a positive interview.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: BigJim on July 23, 2005, 01:34:55 PM
Good news about the controller. It again sounds like it is adaptable, or at least compatible, with a typical controller layout.
The Zelda comment gives me no confidence in the graphical performance being equal to the others. He'd probably say so if it were. Not even having an HD option is an obvious disadvantage.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: mantidor on July 23, 2005, 02:56:32 PM
"I don't think the Revolution's (graphics) will be inferior in any fashion to Xbox 360 or PS3. Even if you look at Zelda on GameCube - I don't think that looks inferior to what the competition is touting as "next generation" visuals."
"even" is the keyword, remove the last sentence if you are that worried.
"I don't think the Revolution's (graphics) will be inferior in any fashion to Xbox 360 or PS3."
So unless is a mistranslation it sounds perfectly fine for me, the comment about Zelda is his way of saying that next generation its not really that impresive compared with current gen. Something many of us can agree with.
Its going to look awesome, you know it, I know it. Its unbelievable how every tiny piece of oficial Nintendo news about revolution is a good thing yet you people somehow need to be worried, its so odd to not be a negative Nintendo fan ...
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: stevey on July 23, 2005, 03:57:56 PM
"-Miyamoto was focussing on nintendo gamecube hense the reason mario 128 has been pushed to revolution"
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 23, 2005, 04:37:07 PM
About HD...
Remember E3 2004? When Nintendo was making a big deal about it being able to hook up to a computer monitor? Yeah, I'm pretty sick of this whining about no HD when the computer functionality obviously hints at HD functionality when connected to a computer.
And about Zelda...
As much as I can't wait to play the new Zelda, I also can't help but be underwhelmed by the visuals. Maybe this is just me wanting the same feeling of awe I had with OoT/TWW again, but are the grass textures in the village place where Link starts off about on par with Ocarina? And the mutant big-forehead Reggie, I'm just not feeling him. -_-
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2005, 05:06:27 PM
Quote Originally posted by: nemo_83
The idea of another Luigi Mansion = bad
Why, because there need to be fewer Mario Bros games and the Mario Bros need to be together in all Mario Bros games.
You have to be kidding right? Luigi's Mansion still remains as one of my favourite games on GCN......and i bought it at launch. I can't wait for a sequel or another game starring the green brother!!
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: nickmitch on July 23, 2005, 05:59:48 PM
And I think that we'd all like to see a Paper Luigi.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on July 23, 2005, 07:02:27 PM
If anyone is so bothered by Iwata using Zelda as a benchmark to compare to next gen graphics, then replace it with Resident Evil 4. That'll help everyone realize the point Iwata was trying to get across.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: pudu on July 23, 2005, 07:25:20 PM
Just to clarify, the original post gives main points about what both Shigeru Miyamoto and Satoru Iwata said. It was Iwata that supposedly said that "The graphics of the revolution should be on par with xbox 360 or playstation 3" in that translation and that's why there is no word of it in what I found on ps3forums.com because it is only what Miyamoto said. Miyamoto's translation seems to match up though so perhaps Iwata really said that.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: IceCold on July 23, 2005, 07:53:54 PM
"Miyamoto was focussing on nintendo gamecube hense the reason mario 128 has been pushed to revolution"
Good thing too; I wanted a special Mario title for the Rev - wow I'm looking so forward to it.
"Miyamoto's team is in the works on a super smash bros for ds"
It most probably won't come out for a while, and it shouldn't. Keep it for a bit later on in the DS's life cycle. Wonder if it will be mostly a port or there will be many new ideas implemented. I know that Iwata (?) said that they had many ideas that they hadn't included in Melee, but I don't know; they need those for SSBR.
"Some downloadable games will be playable online"
He said they were thinking about it in the other post, and it's a good idea, but if this happens then I think that they are putting a bit too much emphasis on previous games. You could just keep playing those old games over and over, and not buy any new Rev games.
"480p resolution will be standard"
Interesting - hadn't heard that before.
- I want Pikmin Revolution! - USB
Quote Originally posted by: couchmonkey I'm glad to hear the controller will play any type of game, that puts many fears to rest. Overall, seems like a positive interview.
But Reggie said that ages ago...
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Famicom on July 23, 2005, 08:59:32 PM
That's real hot news. Lots of questions for the most part answered.
-Controller won't be too weird to play all games for the "launch period"?? Dunno what that means, but good...for now.
-Older games may be online enabled! SCORE.
-Rev will be graphically comparable to the other systems (though the way mentioned might be misleading).
-Ethernet support with an accessory (hopefully widely available).
-480p will be the standard--so SOME form of enhanced definition for sure.
This newsbit pretty much answers most of my concerns. Now hopefully when they blow the lid on this thing we'll have plenty of third party support to go along with it (IMO the LARGEST concern).
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 23, 2005, 09:14:47 PM
It's Satoru, Saturo is that one bad guy from Golden Sun.
Famicom: I think Iwata means that the launch games won't be very innovative because most third parties will just port their NG games.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: nemo_83 on July 23, 2005, 09:43:01 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Dasmos
Quote Originally posted by: nemo_83
The idea of another Luigi Mansion = bad
Why, because there need to be fewer Mario Bros games and the Mario Bros need to be together in all Mario Bros games.
You have to be kidding right? Luigi's Mansion still remains as one of my favourite games on GCN......and i bought it at launch. I can't wait for a sequel or another game starring the green brother!!
How can you say you want Nintendo to continue to water down one of their three biggest franchises. There have been way too many Mario Bros games on GameCube (Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine, Mario Parties, Tennis, Kart, DDR, Golf, Baseball, BasketBall, etc) and not a one was a real Mario Bros game. Luigi's Mansion's control setup was designed for circus freaks and it ended too fast. All I want is one single Mario Brothers game based on multiplayer coop/counterop platforming racing staring both Mario brothers utilizing powerups. The only machines I will accept in a Mario Bros game are air ships, karts, and bullet bill guns. Waterguns and vacum cleaners need to be left in the janitor's closet; these are plumbers. I don't want Nintendo to use their characters to sell us multiple games. I don't want to buy a Donkey Kong game, a Luigi game, a Peach game, a Mario game, and a Wario game. I want all those characters in one big game. Next thing you know there will be seperate games for Zelda and Link.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Nile Boogie on July 23, 2005, 11:01:45 PM
Good stuff to mind munch.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: MrMojoRising on July 24, 2005, 12:02:55 AM
"How can you say you want Nintendo to continue to water down one of their three biggest franchises. There have been way too many Mario Bros games on GameCube (Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine, Mario Parties, Tennis, Kart, DDR, Golf, Baseball, BasketBall, etc) and not a one was a real Mario Bros game."
Ok, I can see how the sports titles and Mario Parties are watering down the franchise, but Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion, and Mario Kart are all perfectly fine. You're running with this "Nintendo's ruining Mario" thing a little too much. Where's Ian? I think even he would think you're over-reacting. If Luigi can give us a unique game experience then I don't see a reason why he can't have his own games? Mario Sunshine was as much of a Mario game as Mario games get, I never thought that the water pack bothered the gameplay experience at all. Unless you just want Mario 64 remix, you're going to need something else thrown in there. And as for Mario Kart...well it's freaking Mario Kart! It's practically it's own franchise, and it's almost as recognizable as Mario himself and I think merely strengthens the Mario name.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: nemo_83 on July 24, 2005, 12:28:29 AM
Its not that they are ruining it, its just they are spreading it too thinly saturating their own market. Mario Kart DD was awesome but its been done, and Sunshine was 64 again, bugs and all (no Luigi, useless Yoshi, no classic poweups), and Luigi's Mansion was a game that fell victim to the weight on its shoulders (and that alien control scheme). The game would have been better off with the Ghost Busters liscence without the expectations Luigi brings to it. You just can't make a Mario or Luigi game without the other and you can't make a Mario Bros game with essentially only one themed world.
I don't care about making Mario Bros super realistic. Realism doesn't work well when the concept involves floating blocks and vacum tube transportation systems. I just want the world to seem more alive and full.
Mario Kart should be a part of the next Mario Bros game. Kind of like GTA Mushroom Kingdom.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2005, 05:00:37 AM
Nemo: It's called "The NEW Super Mario Bros." and is aimed at the DS. Might lack Wario but he was just a "sidequest", like Tatanga.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2005, 06:34:45 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Dasmos
Quote Originally posted by: nemo_83
The idea of another Luigi Mansion = bad
Why, because there need to be fewer Mario Bros games and the Mario Bros need to be together in all Mario Bros games.
You have to be kidding right? Luigi's Mansion still remains as one of my favourite games on GCN......and i bought it at launch. I can't wait for a sequel or another game starring the green brother!!
Another Luigi's Mansion would be fantastic, thanks...
"Mario Kart should be a part of the next Mario Bros game. Kind of like GTA Mushroom Kingdom. "
And, uh, NO...
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Berto2K on July 24, 2005, 06:46:41 AM
Quote Originally posted by: nemo_83 and Luigi's Mansion was a game that fell victim to the weight on its shoulders (and that alien control scheme). The game would have been better off with the Ghost Busters liscence without the expectations Luigi brings to it. You just can't make a Mario or Luigi game without the other and you can't make a Mario Bros game with essentially only one themed world.
Mario Kart should be a part of the next Mario Bros game. Kind of like GTA Mushroom Kingdom.
You are the very first person I have come across that has any sort of problems with the control scheme in Luigi's Mansion. There was nothing wrong with it, it made perfect sense, and worked flawlessly. Lets not forget it was the first game by many of the development team. Very good showing in most people's opinions for a rooie effort.
Mario Kart in Mario Brothers game? O_o What would be the point of that exactly? Kill off one of their most successful game series ever? I could see maybe as a mini-game in a 3D Mario world, but in full...no freakin way. Dumbest idea.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: ShyGuy on July 24, 2005, 07:55:41 AM
I had problems with the Luigi's mansion controls too, but I still enjoyed the game. I wish it could have been longer.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2005, 08:20:33 AM
And there already are racing minigames in the 3d Marios.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Caterkiller on July 24, 2005, 08:57:56 AM
If you'd like to ride something in a platforming Mario game i'd say there should be Yoshi's to replace vehicles. Each with a different ability like in Super Mario World. But there should be plenty of variety with the 10+ colors to help you get to secret areas or make certain parts easier and so on and so forth.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2005, 09:26:23 AM
Too much variety just overcomplicates the game. Look at SMB3's "variety" of powerups, suits and assorted stuff.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Caterkiller on July 24, 2005, 02:24:42 PM
That was too much for you? I loved all the different things you could become with the suits and powerups. The different suits and abilities weren't required to beat the game, so there was no problem with over complication, well for me at least.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2005, 08:40:18 PM
I found them to be pointless. Because the suits were so hard to get I would never use them.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2005, 08:49:06 PM
"I don't think the Revolution's (graphics) will be inferior in any fashion to Xbox 360 or PS3. Even if you look at Zelda on GameCube - I don't think that looks inferior to what the competition is touting as 'next generation' visuals."
Oh yeah. THIS sounds super. Zelda probably does look comparable to first gen Xbox 360 games but "first gen" is totally different from anything released later. He's comparing Xbox 360 launch games to the absolute best looking Gamecube game. That's very shortsighted. At the time I thought Conker's Bad Fur Day looked on par with a PS2 game but PS2 games released mere months later killed it visually. So yeah Twilight Princess looks comparable now but it won't next year and even less and less as the years go by. That's just how it is. Plus Nintendo has to realize that graphics aren't the only issue. Better hardware also means smoother framerates and more characters on screen. Imagine 500 Pikmin on screen at once. That can't be done without a boost in hardware and it's not just visually related.
Of course there are no plans for Pikmin right now so I guess that point's moot. But we get a new Luigi game. Wahoo.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: pudu on July 24, 2005, 09:43:56 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Ian Sane "I don't think the Revolution's (graphics) will be inferior in any fashion to Xbox 360 or PS3. Even if you look at Zelda on GameCube - I don't think that looks inferior to what the competition is touting as 'next generation' visuals."
Oh yeah. THIS sounds super. Zelda probably does look comparable to first gen Xbox 360 games but "first gen" is totally different from anything released later. He's comparing Xbox 360 launch games to the absolute best looking Gamecube game. That's very shortsighted. At the time I thought Conker's Bad Fur Day looked on par with a PS2 game but PS2 games released mere months later killed it visually. So yeah Twilight Princess looks comparable now but it won't next year and even less and less as the years go by. That's just how it is. Plus Nintendo has to realize that graphics aren't the only issue. Better hardware also means smoother framerates and more characters on screen. Imagine 500 Pikmin on screen at once. That can't be done without a boost in hardware and it's not just visually related.
Of course there are no plans for Pikmin right now so I guess that point's moot. But we get a new Luigi game. Wahoo.
I have to agree. Nintendo's big on saying how they want to innovate and be unique/creative with the Revolution but the thing is, like Ian said, more power under the hood allows for more creative freedom and flexibility. For one, having more powerful CPU's can allow more advanced physics (which I believe can open the door for incredible gameplay opportunities focused around it). Also one could look at the amount you can have on screen as a determaning factor in how much interactivity can occur.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 25, 2005, 02:32:52 AM
Ian: Do you think Iwata knows how the later gens of Rev software look? He can only compare first-gen Rev to first gen X360.
Besides, there's no way TP looks comparable to e.g. Unreal Tournament 2007 or Gears of War.
pudu: What should more advanced physics simulate? Accurate destruction of vehicles and characters? Unlikely because the gameplay effect is too severe, it would be uncontrollable how many hits a target could take (even roughly) and most vehicles would become unusable with even the slightest damage, never mind that you'd have to alter the animations for characters with missing parts. Destroying buildings? Well, the current gen can handle that (Black? Red Faction?) so I don't think the Rev will break a sweat there. Liquid dynamics are still too far away (not even movies use them if it can be avoided, they eat so much power) so you still won't see flowing water simulated. Some objects like characters cannot be subjected to a full physics simulation or you'd have to do what robots can't after decades of research: Implement a proper bipedal motion system that will account for terrain shapes and imbalances. Since the player wants the character to follow the movements of his analog stick exactly too much simulation would only hurt the controls. You can't control the characters body completely so the program has to fill in the gaps. And we're nowhere close to doing that.
The only thing I see as useful is large crowds, imagine a game in the Bladerunner universe (or some derivative thereof, there are so many) where you'd have to pick the replicants out of a crowd, with a scanner that would tell you where they are but also attract the attention of any replicant within radius and you'd have to look for suspicious behaviour if you don't want to give away your identity. The GC did Pikmin, the Rev should be able to do crowds.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 25, 2005, 05:30:47 AM
Zelda's graphics underwhelm me. As much as the game will be fun to play, RE4 is lightyears ahead (in graphics), Ian.
And just a side note, RE4 looks only a bit under par with the first actual gameplay video of the PS3, Gundam.
Edit: Typo.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: couchmonkey on July 25, 2005, 06:29:29 AM
Quote Originally posted by: mantidor "I don't think the Revolution's (graphics) will be inferior in any fashion to Xbox 360 or PS3. Even if you look at Zelda on GameCube - I don't think that looks inferior to what the competition is touting as "next generation" visuals."
"even" is the keyword, remove the last sentence if you are that worried.
But why is Nintendo always qualifying its statements about graphics? Saying, "remove the last sentence if you are that worried", is the same as saying, "take the quote out of context". If the system is as powerful as the others, Nintendo needs to say, "Revolution will be just as powerful as the PS3 or the Xbox 360." Instead it keeps saying something like, "We think the graphics will look good, graphics aren't that important anyway." It's not reassuring.
I admit, I agree that the power increase we're seeing next-gen is not that important. Pretty graphics are nice, and I'll be a little sad if Nintendo isn't up to par with the others, but I don't believe there will be a big impact on gameplay. Using the example of controlling 500 Pikmin: it lifts some slight limitations, but it wouldn't be anything like the completely new style of gameplay that the first Pikmin introduced. To me, none of the demos shown so far have shown any really good applications of large scale character numbers, they're mostly eye-candy.
I guess what it comes down to is that I'm sick of wondering. I don't really care if Revolution is less powerful than the other next-gen systems as long as it offers more power than the current systems, I just wish I knew one way or the other.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 25, 2005, 06:38:40 AM
Nintendo doesn't look at technology as the sole proof of graphics, but the artistic creation created with the technology.
It is not shortsighted...it is idealistic. Seriously, You can argue that there are several Super Nintendo games that are much prettier artistic creations than anything on the PS2 or Xbox now.
That being said, looking at Zelda the artistic visuals are quite on par with the first generation games for the Xbox 360 and PS3. It won't be on par with second or third generation but guess what...the Revolution isn't a gamecube, its an new system that will be capable of much more than the Cube is capable now. In other words saying a Cube game can't compare to future X360, and PS3 games is stupid because its not designed to.
The quote doesn't mean that we will be definately getting equal technology with the next generation, in fact I think it points the opposite way. I think it says we won't have the most advanced, but we will be affordable and our graphics will look similar to what is offered by the competition. You may not even be able to notice a difference. And you know what...that is fine with me.
I still want affordable gaming. That is more important to me then cutting edge.
I am just glad Nintendo is starting to get their guys out there and starting to get aggressive with the interviews. I think Nintendo needs to continue this each month releasing more tidbits of information each time. Next month I would love them to show a single screen from Smash Brothers Melee...and "accidentally leak" a new character.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 25, 2005, 06:53:11 AM
KDR: Your post about phsyics and the future generations reminded of some things.
Man can not re-create reality. What I mean is whenever we try to create something that follows all the rules of our world it fails. It either looks fake (animation is a good example of that) or it fails to accurately represent reality and our brain catches the mistakes.
The reason this happens is because reality has too many variables. No physics chip, engine, program can take into account all the variables neccessary to create this world. we can't even accurately and reliably manipulate physics and reality perfectly in this world. Because, we can't take into account every variable that could happen.
I believe in alot of ways the advancement of technology is pushing us backwards. We used to understand this fact, and we created a balance that our brains accepted. Animation worked because it didn't have to simulate reality.
Now we are taking our games and are trying to make it a perfect micro-reality of our world and it will fail.
I hope all games next generation don't go this direction. I don't think they will...but I do know several will.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 25, 2005, 07:32:31 AM
Where's the difference between "looking fake" and "being able to see that it's not real"?
The physics simulation our brain runs is much simpler than what we see in games but it can handle destruction easily. I think the only parts of physics that look wrong to us are 1. the lack of any destruction/deformation and 2. incorrect mass parameters. Perhaps 3. simplified joint limitations and lack of elastic force on dead bodies but you don't notice the bodies much anyway (at least in BF2 I never noticed an unbelievable death, as opposed to UT2003). You don't need to simulate quantum effects and bring the simulation on a level where you could perform experiments in a game and use the results in reality but it works good enough to fool the user into thinking that stuff is real.
I really don't see how this quote here means anything about the Rev being weaker, Iwata just isn't the kind of guy who'd claim the Rev is the geatest thing since sliced bread and will have absolutely realistic graphics and be ten times as powerful as the competition.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 25, 2005, 08:16:31 AM
What I mean is that either
1)It is fake. The Physics although good just don't represent the real world accurately and therefore our brains make note about it...BECAUSE the game/animation/art whatever is trying to fool it into believing its real.
2)The other is that the physics are really good and can fake us out into believing its accurate but something just doesn't feel right about the images or games. It Appears Fake, yet you can't put your finger on it. This mostly happens in animation and less in games.
See I agree that our brain actually does less physics simulation...but its because our brain doesn't have to simulate physics...it is constantly interacting with physics every day. Its like trying to counterfeit money. The experts don't study the counterfeits, they study real money and they know it so well they can easily spot the fakes.
Our brains know our reality so well that anything trying to fool us into believing it is our reality feels fake.
But, if you stop trying to imitate reality you can create something our brain accepts as plausible and "real" even though it is obviously not.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KDR_11k on July 25, 2005, 09:31:25 AM
No, our brain knows so little it constantly mispredicts the outcome of real events. We know very little about the physics that happen in games, most of our "knowledge" comes from movies. What throws you off is of course the imagery itself, games just don't look like reality.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2005, 12:02:42 AM
To start off, what is the point of these debates, it appears people are drooling over anticipation of attacking Nintendo before the specs are released on Revolution. I can understand the comparison between Zelda and the next generation systems, because Iwata is right especially now days, there is little difference graphically between new consoles. In fact since N64 I haven't seen anything that was a drastic step above it the following generation, not like the SNES and the N64 or SNES and PS2. Power under the hood is mattering less and less, especially if you want to focus solely on games (since PS3 and Xbox 360 will be "mult media" consoles they require more power, it is common sense).
Going back to Zelda TP, I have been more impressed with the graphics than RE4 since the game is more expansive than RE4 was, and thus requires to spread out the graphical joy a bit more thus leading to less detailed enviroments and enemies. They are two different games that require two different graphical schemes due to their game design! That is like saying a fighter for GC is better looking than any other game, well of course, they do not require expansive enviroments and can focus on a smaller one giving a noticeable graphical flare.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: nemo_83 on August 01, 2005, 12:04:31 PM
In response to the Mario Kart thing. I look at it like this. Before Mario Kart there were four Mario Bros games, after there has been an installment of Kart on every Nintendo platform while Mario and Luigi got split up in the console games, along with Donkey Kong, now Peach, and Wario.
What I am suggesting is a large 3d world from which you access semi nonlinear courses for racing on foot, in vehicles, and on animals. The karts for example would usually be optional and mostly used when just roaming around the Kingdom which would be vast so you wouldn't want to run everywhere. You would want an air ship, an animal, or a kart.
I have a few key kart designs I would like to see too. There should be single rider as well as dual rider karts. There should be karts similar to the lawnmower racers. There should also be karts like bar stool racers. And lots of **** jokes because they're plumbers.
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 01, 2005, 12:46:44 PM
nemo, I don't want to sound harsh, but I will; all of your ideas are terrible
That's a nice article, but it only concerns the PS3 and 360. One of the only things that we know about the Rev is that it will use similar architecture to the Gamecube (I don't know the technical terms, and I won't pretend that I do). Nintendo is stressing the fact that the Rev will be easy to develop for, and I think this will have a really big impact on third parties. With the GC companies don't feel it's worth it to bring games to the system, but with the Rev the ease of development probably will. In fact, if all goes according to plan, the Rev will probably see just as many third party titles towards launch compared to the competition, and even more later on. If the Rev makes a splash, a dev may put a game out for the Rev and then feel it's not wrorth the hassle to bring it to the 360 or the PS3. I'd like to see the system's roles flip-flop like that.
Title: RE:Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: nemo_83 on August 01, 2005, 03:55:12 PM
try constructive criticism next time.
And the Cube's ease of development didn't help Nintendo any. Here is a quote from an experienced programmer.
"Given two programmers of equal talent writing code for Xbox and GameCube to do the same task, I think that the GameCube programmer will produce faster, more efficient code in the majority of cases, but not in all cases."
Title: RE: Saturo Iwata: revolution graphics as good as competitors
Post by: OptimusPrime on August 02, 2005, 01:11:46 AM
Yowzers...good article and it scares the cr ap out of me. Puts all the other doomscenario-articles in a more believable perspective. GameCube's ease maybe didn't help this gen because the difference wasn't big enough, now that difference is going op with roughly 100-150% (presuming the rev is as easy to work for as the GC, Nintendo never lies you know) in difficulty and lot more in manpower and financial costs. next gen it could make a big difference with smaller teams (anyone noticed that a lot of DS-games under the publishment of Nintendo are being made by small teams nobody ever heard about...let's try moving that over to the Rev) and smaller publishers. You could get a similar effect as on the DS where the smaller devs and publishers tried their luck on it and are now turning heads and getting attention.
