Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 15, 2005, 07:58:20 AM
Sound good? Okay, send questions every day to bag@planetgamecube.com. New address and ugly image link (on the main page; can't post images here) to avert spammers, who had COMPLETELY taken over the old address to the point that it was hard for us to even find the actual questions.
Post by: RABicle on July 17, 2005, 12:59:44 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on July 19, 2005, 12:14:56 AM
Post by: RABicle on July 21, 2005, 02:25:54 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 23, 2005, 09:35:27 PM
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For one thing, you're underestimating the amount of effort that goes into a game as finely tuned as SSB Melee. Every character, move, and level has to be balanced with all the others, and the excellent job HAL did with that balancing act is the reason so many people still play Melee to this day.
Considering that SSBM has notoriously bad tiers, I think this comment missed its mark by more than a bit...
I understand it's not the focus of the question at all, but when all major tournaments are always won by either Marth, Shiek or Fox, I think the term "balance" goes out the window rather quickly.
-SB
Post by: Arbok on July 23, 2005, 09:53:19 PM
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I understand it's not the focus of the question at all, but when all major tournaments are always won by either Marth, Shiek or Fox, I think the term "balance" goes out the window rather quickly.
-SB
Peach belongs in the top tier too, as those players often get to the finals as well. Anyway, I think SSB:M is pretty well balanced. No fighting game is perfect, there will always be tiers, but at least everyone in SSB:M is worth playing as and can be used well in the right hands... except Kirby, they dropped the ball on that one (odd, as he was top tier in the first).
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2005, 04:55:38 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on July 24, 2005, 08:06:50 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2005, 08:19:10 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 24, 2005, 01:37:42 PM
As for SSBM, Marth is ridiculously overpowered, which wouldn't irritate me as much if he wasn't a character which never even appeared outside of the Japanese market. In duels, he's absolutely sick. In group play, a Marth player mashing the C-Stick will pick up a lot of kills (especially on small levels) because that smash covers so much goddamn area and happens in an instant.
I like to play as heavy characters as I think they never really get much of a chance, but there's that sobering realization you'll one day reach when you finally understand that speed means much more than strength in pretty much all fighting games, SSBM included.
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except Kirby, they dropped the ball on that one (odd, as he was top tier in the first).
I'm pretty sure HAL was shamed into making him suck for fear that they'd be accused of playing favorites.
-SB
Post by: stevey on July 24, 2005, 03:04:11 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 24, 2005, 06:11:52 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 24, 2005, 06:40:53 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 24, 2005, 10:22:41 PM
-SB
Post by: Mario on July 25, 2005, 12:45:59 AM
Post by: stevey on July 25, 2005, 08:15:25 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 25, 2005, 09:39:22 AM
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Originally posted by: Mario
I can kick Marth's ass with Mario or Samus, on any setting. You fail.
You cannot judge the ability of a character based on their CPU-controlled AI. Characters have moves that the AI won't even use, like JP's rollout and sleep moves, just more evidence that the game was rushed.
As for Roy, he's on one of the higher tiers, but not the top like Marth. Marth is top because of his speed, which is why Fox and Shiek share the top tier with him.
Marth is on the top tier because a guy named Ken (don't know his last name) has won the SSBM Game Over tournament two or three years in a row with him. From what I understand, he's the sole reason Marth is in the top tier.
-SB
Post by: Mario on July 25, 2005, 07:53:03 PM
Someone needs to step up with Samus or someone and start kicking that Ken guys ass.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 25, 2005, 08:19:17 PM
Post by: Arbok on July 25, 2005, 08:24:32 PM
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Characters have moves that the AI won't even use, like JP's rollout and sleep moves, just more evidence that the game was rushed.
Or maybe because Jiggly's sleep move is: horrible. Assuming you mean Sing, and not Rest. If it's the latter, then that move is so hard to hit with anyway that it's probably for the best that the computer doesn't attempt to do it.
Anyway, you are blowing this out of proportion. Is the game 100% balanced? No. Is it balanced well enough that it's a non-issue outside of tournaments? Yes. IMO, Kirby is the only character who is really lacking, everyone else has their perks and can be used well in the right hands. Seriously, SSB:M, when all is said and done, is one of the most balanced "fighters" out there.
Post by: RABicle on July 26, 2005, 02:37:44 AM
QuoteThank you KN.
Plus, there are no items in these tournys, and Rabicle has already explained why that is weak.
Smash brother if you played the game properly and didn't pretend it to be Streetfighter and inventing your own imaginary restrictions, the game is very balanced. Anyone can beat anyone with any character ona good day.
Arbok: Jigglypuff's rest move is a breeze if you're not weak.
Johnny: You didn't answer my question
Post by: KDR_11k on July 26, 2005, 07:31:57 AM
Post by: Arbok on July 26, 2005, 08:38:30 AM
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Originally posted by: RABicleQuote
Arbok: Jigglypuff's rest move is a breeze if you're not weak.
Like hell it is... How often have you been able to make contact with the move against an experienced Smash Bros player, when they weren't playing the larger characters?
Against the computer, it's much easier to pull off as they don't forsee the danger, but against a human player who knows what to watch out for, you would be hard pressed to pull it off very often at all, and will get pummled very quickly for missing with it.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on July 26, 2005, 09:02:19 AM
Post by: stevey on July 26, 2005, 10:00:07 AM
Post by: SgtShiversBen on July 26, 2005, 10:16:33 AM
Post by: stevey on July 26, 2005, 02:39:42 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 26, 2005, 02:59:01 PM
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Smash brother if you played the game properly and didn't pretend it to be Streetfighter and inventing your own imaginary restrictions, the game is very balanced. Anyone can beat anyone with any character ona good day.
This is probably one of the hardest points to argue because evidence of this is tough to come by.
Regardless...
The "official" tier list: http://forums.g4tv.com/messageview.cfm?catid=18&threadid=170581
Second, the "Game Over" videos are hard to come by, but can be found on DC++ at http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net on the server ssbdc.no-ip.com
I watched them all before it went to DC++ only, (as they previously had them for download here http://www.angelfire.com/games5/ssbm/).
It's one thing to claim that there are no tiers in existence, but what evidence do you offer? If you want to tell me that there are no tiers, explain why all of the Game Over final matches came down to 5 characters and ONLY 5 characters (FYI, Game Over is one of the largest SSBM tournaments in the US, if not THE largest). If tiers truly did not exist, this would not have happened, as any character would have a chance of beating any other character and the every round of the tournament would be just as random as the last.
Unless you're trying to say that everyone chooses Fox, Falco, Marth, Shiek, Samus and Peach for a reason which has nothing to do with gameplay, then please explain why these are the characters which prevail in the Game Over tourney and many others.
Until you can show me a list of large tournaments in which players won with lower to bottom tier characters, I'm inclined to believe that tiers do indeed exist.
-SB
Post by: stevey on July 26, 2005, 03:06:27 PM
Link
Roy
Zelda
Young Link
-=BOTTOM=-
Bowser"
,.l..
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 26, 2005, 06:52:20 PM
-SB
