Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 08, 2005, 10:20:10 AM
PS2s blasted off the shelf with GTA3, and since then, the other games the system has to offer have grown on the owners.
Xbox basically exists because of Halo.
GameCube...is just kind of there.
Every system had a real must-have game that kept the system going...except Nintendo's. If ever there was one it was Super Smash Bros. but it was still dubbed tiku tiku tiku! , even with its T-Rating. Metroid Prime..."Total rip-off of Halo" is what you get, even though MP is an FPA, not an FPS. The Cube's got plenty of great games...but no killer-app. So what I want to hear from Nintendo is that there's a Rev killer-app in the works. I want to hear your ideas regarding what it could be, and about the strategy and timetable Nintendo should have for the next-generation.
Personally...I just don't know and though I know I'm buying a Rev the day of release, I'm still not convinced Ninty has brushed off that Tiku Tiku image and will appeal to the mainstream next-generation.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 08, 2005, 10:34:12 AM
Metroid Prime 3
Super Smash Brothers 3
Camelot RPG
Zelda Rev
Enough killer apps to hold you for now? But seriously, we don't even know what the system does yet...How the system works could easily turn a game into a killer app, so just be patient...
(Camelot's RPG is going to be a killer app no matter what...Golden Sun Golden Sun Golden Sun)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 08, 2005, 10:42:55 AM
I have no links or proof, just going by memory.
Kid Icarus
Mario Kart
Pokemon (MMO?)
*Entire Retro Cataloge
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 08, 2005, 10:52:17 AM
Kid Icarus was not confirmed, but hinted at a possible Rev version...
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 08, 2005, 12:04:47 PM
Also Metroid PRime a rip off of Halo? WTF Well im not sure about that cause i never played Halo aside from a multiplayer battle. But they seem distinct and Metroid storys are essentially the same since the original Metroid, MP is just 3D. So id argue that Halo ripped off Metroid, but what do i know..
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 08, 2005, 12:28:11 PM
Nintendo Download service (I am serious on that KILLER APP)
Metroid Prime sold quite a few units....if Retro creates another one with more traditional controls watch out.
Mario is always a killer app. Sunshine did quite well and sold a few systems. It will sell more.
Super Smash Brothers Revolution: A great game.
Zelda: Nuff said. Probably Nintendo's most important franchise these days.
Then add to that Nintendos lesser known franchises that could be created into a killer app.
Advanced Wars
Fire Emblem
Pokemon (Ok not lesser known, but still...)
Kirby
Nintendo Sports
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2005, 12:54:40 PM
Metroid Prime 3
Super Smash Brothers 3
Camelot RPG
Zelda Rev"
The only one of those that has a serious chance of being a killer app is the Camelot RPG but that's just because we don't know anything about it. The Cube had Mario, Metroid Prime, SSB and Zelda. Why would these games be killer apps on the Rev but not the Cube? Games that sell consoles are rarely sequels. They're always something new except for rare occasions like Super Mario 64, GTA3, and FFVII where a franchise is given a big overhaul and thus becomes new again.
I think the Cube could have had a killer app with better marketing and better timing. Pikmin could have been a killer app. There still is no game like it. But it was pretty short and the big launch push was given to Luigi's Mansion which although a new take on an existing franchise was too short to be a console seller. Rogue Leader also could have been a killer app but again the marketing for it was the sh!ts. There was a Rogue Leader commercial but it had more to do with people in glass cubes than showing off the best game addaption of the trilogy ever. ED was new but again no marketing and the game was probably too arty anyway.
Metroid Prime would have been the best choice but I feel it was hurt by poor marketing (notice a trend here) and poor timing. Metroid Prime was released around the same time that the Xbox offered a pretty cool bundle pack that came with two Sega games. Nintendo in return offered nothing. The Sega bundle along with Splinter Cell (which was marketing really well) allowed the Xbox to settle into second place and the Cube has never recovered. If Nintendo had a comparible promotion and comparible marketing Metroid Prime probably could have beat Splinter Cell. Though the Cube was probably already finished anyway because of that TERRIBLE post-launch drought. That pretty much tainted the entire console so Metroid Prime was trying to sell damaged goods at that point.
Everything else that could have been a killer app wasn't because it was too late. The Cube was finished after the Xbox kicked its ass that Christmas. RE4 probably could have been a killer app but it was released too damn late to do any good even if Capcom hadn't screwed Nintendo over by announcing the PS2 port.
The Rev needs something brand new, that offers an experience that people must buy a Rev for, to be released within the first year. And that first year has to be quite competent. The marketing has to be top notch and there has to be no big f*ck ups to doom the Rev early on. Ideally a killer app launch title would work the best but if that's not possible a solid launch lineup and NO HUGE DROUGHT can keep things afloat until the killer app arrives. However Christmas 2007 is the drop dead date and the whole thing can be ruined if the competition delivers a major killer app first.
The marketing is REALLY crucial. Nintendo still is pretty much doing the same ads that didn't work in 2001 so I'm hoping Reggie is all he's cracked up to be and whips NOA into shape. Either that or Nintendo makes a game that's so good that it rises above any poor marketing and sells huge anyway (like Goldeneye did).
Post by: Draygaia on July 08, 2005, 01:43:45 PM
Post by: IceCold on July 08, 2005, 01:58:00 PM
And anyway, I would rather have numerous quality titles like the Gamecube had, rather than one or two "killer apps" - whatever the definition for that is.
Post by: pudu on July 08, 2005, 02:04:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Draygaia
There are killer apps. Its just clear that you prefer the other competitors. I don't like GTA and FPS have never been the top for me.
I've played GTA and liked it but never owned one but realise that if I wanted to I could always wait for it to come to PC. I simply hate using dual analog for aiming in FPS's (due not only to the lack of motion a stick has but also due to my uncordintated right thumb and the not-so-nice c-stick). In general I don't like shooters on consoles anymore. The PC and the mouse is the ultimate duo for aiming in a FPS. Metroid is different though, it was more of a First Person Adventure and the controls matched well. Now, if Nintendo's new controler actually uses a new way of controling motion that, hopefully, matches or surpases that of a mouse then I'm all for more FPS's on Nintendo's next console.
Alright not sure how I really added to this thread...oh well
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 08, 2005, 02:06:37 PM
NES: Killer App Super Mario Brothers. Ok, that was new.
Genesis: Killer App Sonic (Just Sega's version of Mario nothing really new)
SNES: Killer App Super Mario World (Not new at all.)
Playstation: Didn't have a killer app at release. Eventually they got FF and GTA
N64: Killer App Super Mario 64. Same Mario, new exerience. New franchise in 3D Mario born.
Playstation 2: No killer App upon release. Eventually had everything the PS had.
Gamecube: Only potential Killer App would be Super Smash Brothers.
Xbox: Halo was their Killer App. Could be a new franchise but was basically a good FPS is all.
Xbox 360: Perfect Dark Zero, or another FPS will be the killer app. Nothing new.
Actually, looking at the list I don't think Killer Apps are that important for a system to succeed. Playstation never had a killer app early in its life. It took a few generations to get its games.
Microsoft only had Halo.
Nintendo has had some very powerful Killer Apps, and Mario, Zelda, and all Nintendo's others will and STILL do sell systems. When people buy a Nintendo system they are buying it for all those games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 08, 2005, 02:09:20 PM
How the system works could easily turn a game into a killer app, so just be patient...
It doesn't matter if the characters are old if the design is new, intuitive, and addicting...
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 08, 2005, 02:13:49 PM
and with PS2 you knew what was coming, FF9, MGS2, DQxx
Post by: nickmitch on July 08, 2005, 02:15:42 PM
And what would make SSB 3 a killer app is the online aspect. It'd be the same with MP3. An online F-Zero would be nice by the first holiday season too.
Post by: pudu on July 08, 2005, 02:21:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Again I will repeat for Ian...
How the system works could easily turn a game into a killer app, so just be patient...
It doesn't matter if the characters are old if the design is new, intuitive, and addicting...
Great point. What is true about basically all games now is that they all fit into one genre or another. No matter what the game is about and what characters are starring in it, it will be classified as being a part of one or more genres. Now, what matters with Nintendo's console isn't that they create all new genres with all new characters this next gen as much as them being able to finally allow developers to create new gaming experiences. Like Bill said, take a familiar type of game with familiar characters and add a new way to control it and what you get is the ability to create a new, intuitive, and addictive design.
It really is true what Nintendo keeps saying over and over, ther biggest change at this point in time could very easily be that of how we interact with games. Look at the gamecube controller compared to the NES one...how truely different are those? More buttons and more degrees of input isn't that big of a leap. The graphics, on the other hand, have made huge leaps from the NES days. BUT, this has become expected and, therefore, graphical leaps are nothing new or revolutionary, they are mearly evolving consistantly. A long-due leap in contol, on the other hand, could really drive that area of gaming forward and help it catch up to where graphics and hardware have got to.
Post by: stevey on July 08, 2005, 03:42:51 PM
But MP3 will be harder since it was dead for 10 year so they need to get it name out and peole know the it's a fpaa and no an idiots fps were you shoot thing in the head over and over and over and over and...... but it the thinking man fpaa game. and the zelda rev game wont come out for years no soner the 2008, 2007 if the use parts of TP and 128 if it not out for the cube than it wont be ready for 2006.
Post by: jasonditz on July 08, 2005, 08:12:50 PM
Post by: jasonditz on July 08, 2005, 08:21:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Earthbound with a real time fighting system, like ToS, could be a killer app. There definately needs to be at least 3 M-rated games out by the holiday season, just for the sake of having M-rated games. A geist sequel and two new franchises from Nintendo would suffice.
And what would make SSB 3 a killer app is the online aspect. It'd be the same with MP3. An online F-Zero would be nice by the first holiday season too.
A Geist sequel?! Geist isn't even out yet...
If Nintendo really feels the need to get some generic M-rated titles they should just republish BMXXX with more advanced titties. Or hell, how about we finally get "Mario Shoots a Hooker"?
Post by: nickmitch on July 08, 2005, 08:33:21 PM
And I was just using Geist as an already exsisting franchise that could be continued to help kill the tiku tiku tiku.
Post by: nemo_83 on July 08, 2005, 09:23:35 PM
Most important for Nintendo is to launch with the next Mario Bros and something that appeals to mature gamers like Metroid, Zelda, Kid Iccarus, or an original FPS. At some point they have to release some original games; the best time to do so would be launch.
The system doesn't need to launch with a multiplayer port of Sunshine and a bunch of gimmick games because there was no time to make a real game that uses the new controller.
The REV needs games from the first day that use the new controller to make the game more fluid.
Post by: IceCold on July 08, 2005, 11:19:04 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 09, 2005, 04:02:32 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 09, 2005, 08:10:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Nintendo should attain the rights to Star Wars for Retro to make a game. Maybe there could be a cheat allowing Samus to be unlocked in the game. Now that is a cameo worth getting excited over.
.....................WHY?
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 09, 2005, 12:05:06 PM
But yeah, if you ever tell me again that Samus should be a Star Wars character, I will personally find out where you live and snipe you through your bedroom window.
Post by: nickmitch on July 09, 2005, 02:35:17 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 10, 2005, 01:40:42 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on July 10, 2005, 07:58:13 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 10, 2005, 08:32:15 AM
Did Super Mario 64 sell systems because it made great use of the analog stick or because it was a full 3D game in a market where such a title pretty much didn't exist? I think the analog stick added to the game's greatness but it wasn't the deciding factor in sales. I got excited about that game from screenshots and the commercial.
I'll admit that the new controller could turn existing franchises into killer apps but it really depends. There has to be a big leap like going to 3D was. And people have to be able to tell there's something worth getting excited about by screens and movies because that's what you get from magazines and web sites. If people have to use the controller to see what the big deal is then that's not going to be a killer app. Nintendo can't rely on people trying the console out first. The Rev is going to be the last place controller by default. No one is going to take the time to try the thing out in a store. Game footage in a commercial has to grab them by the balls.
"Nintendo should attain the rights to Star Wars for Retro to make a game."
That's an okay idea I guess. One problem with that is it could make a Goldeneye scenario where Nintendo has a huge seller that they can't followup on because they don't own the franchise.
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 10, 2005, 09:10:04 AM
BTW sorry for calling anyone a fagg, but some people say things that irritates me...so i react.
Peace Nosferatu
Post by: Kraven on July 10, 2005, 02:18:16 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 10, 2005, 02:52:51 PM
But anyway I'm starting to think that there is no such thing as a killer app. Why would a person spend all that money on a console for just one game? I think what really sells a console is all of the available games and the types of available games on the console. So it's really a GROUP of killer apps thats makes the console.
Post by: IceCold on July 10, 2005, 07:10:43 PM
Not necessarily. Nothing next gen will come close to the jump to 3D. A killer app doesn't need that big of a jump; it needs fresh & fun gameplay, and the Rev controller could provide that. And, as Nintendo has been trying to say, graphical power can only go so far. Next gen, the console graphics won't be distinctly better on any one console. And the generation after that, you will be hard pressed to tell which system has better graphics. Then just looking at screens won't matter one bit, because it will be the gameplay and controls that sell the game.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 10, 2005, 07:53:26 PM
Let's hold this thought for when the Rev is finally revealed... ^_^
Post by: Ian Sane on July 10, 2005, 09:19:29 PM
Nintendo can say whatever they want but it won't change a thing. Graphics sell games. It's been this way since the NES. If the Rev's games don't impress in screens and movies then they won't sell consoles. That's just how it is. Therefore the gameplay and the originality of the game has to come through in screens and movies. People will only try a game out to see how it plays if they already care about it and getting people to care is going to be one of the Rev's greatest obstacles. If the new Mario for example looks no better than Super Mario Sunshine and in screenshots just looks like another 3D Mario platformer then it's not going to attract any more attention then any Mario game would. You have to be able to figure out the "hook" of the game in magazines and web sites.
Post by: thepoga on July 10, 2005, 09:48:30 PM
Post by: IceCold on July 10, 2005, 11:03:37 PM
Yes, of course graphics sell games. But what I am saying is that there won't be a noticeable difference in graphics for consoles to come. The games that have had the most effort put into them, or have a better art direction will look better, yes, but it will have little to do with the graphical capabilities of the system. Especially on magazines; it will be extremely hard to tell which is better. And THAT is what Nintendo has been trying to say. At that point, gameplay and controls will sell the games.
Post by: nickmitch on July 11, 2005, 04:17:41 PM
But anyhoo, lets remember that initially Iwata said the the rev would be 2-3 times more powerful than the GC, while Sony and MS boasted 30 times as their respective systems. Then Iwata said that it's not raw horse-power but what'll actually be in the game. THEN we all find out that the 360 is really only 3 times more powerful than the Xbox. So, I think that the differences now will be the same next gen at least long enough to "revolutionize" gaming as we know it.
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on July 11, 2005, 05:17:48 PM
Post by: MrMojoRising on July 11, 2005, 10:41:17 PM
If Nintendo really can market their machine well this coming generation I think they could have a good thing going for them among the casual crowed and non-gamers with their downloadable library and all. I really don't understand Sony, who has made an underpowered machine at a decent price two times in a row and come out on top, and now switches their gameplan to have a superpowered machine at a somewhat rediculous price. If video games continue growing as an industry then maybe Nintendo can start gathering a good chunk of casual gamers to go along with all of us fanboys.
Post by: nickmitch on July 12, 2005, 10:55:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
Actually, TVman, unless I'm mistaken, I believe it was Perrin Kaplan who attempted to guage the Revolution's power. Furtheremore, I think the statement was later retracted.
You're right; my bad.
Post by: couchmonkey on July 18, 2005, 12:50:02 PM
The existance of Killer Apps is proven by titles like Super Mario 64 and Halo. Those games dominated their respective systems for months, and kept the systems selling even when their overall lineups were poor. On the other hand, mature-themed titles like Goldeneye and Resident Evil were never enough to completely turn around Nintendo's image, even though they sold extremely well.
Ummm...I guess I'm a little off-topic now, I just thought it was an interesting comment. I think Super Smash Bros. will go a long way towards fulfilling the killer app requirements for the Revolution, but it will need some other stuff as well. A new Mario platformer that takes advantage of the system's Revolutionary capabilities might do the trick...at the very least some kind of adventure game is needed. For that matter, an adult-oriented title is needed too...so I guess I'm agreeing with TVMan, in a way...no one game will sell the system.
Post by: nickmitch on July 18, 2005, 08:09:36 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 18, 2005, 08:23:56 PM
Every heard of Grand Theft Auto 3? That's seems like a pretty damn big killer app to me.
Post by: Dasmos on July 18, 2005, 08:53:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"But, what was the PS2's killer app? Was there one sigle solitary game worth the money? No, of cource not."
Every heard of Grand Theft Auto 3? That's seems like a pretty damn big killer app to me.
I know alot of people who own(ed) that game but the majority had PS2's already or bought one then after awhile bought GTA3. No-one i know bought a PS2 for GTA.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 18, 2005, 08:57:06 PM
Pong
Pac-Man
Super Mario Bros
um... can't thing of a high profile system mover in the 16bit era. Mortal Kombat with red blood?
Pokemon
Myst (do PC games count?)
Super Mario 64
Final Fantasy 7
Grand Theft Auto 3
Halo
agree? disagree?
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 18, 2005, 09:13:48 PM
Nintendo just didnt deliver more quality games geared to the older gamer todrive up sales. After all the older gamers are the ones with teh money and buy the most systems. If RE4 came out the year after Metroid Prime, i think the Cube would have faired much better. Same with Giest. But those two games came way too late.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 18, 2005, 10:21:57 PM
One could also say that Tetris was the killer app for the original GameBoy.
Pokemon was the killer app for the GBC, well kind of anyway.
I feel that the importance of a killer app is really negligable so I don't put much thought into it, although I do think that SSB:Revolution will be a awesome either way.
Post by: MrMojoRising on July 18, 2005, 11:53:07 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 19, 2005, 02:55:25 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 19, 2005, 07:17:15 AM
Sonic the Hedgehog. Yes he used to be cool.
Post by: nickmitch on July 19, 2005, 08:54:51 AM
However the GTA series didn't even get reconized until GTA3 and wasn't really that popular until Vice City.
Post by: Nile Boogie on July 19, 2005, 09:24:45 AM
And you know if it is not TP it's Smash Bros. "My Fox can kick your Kirbys' ass any day of the week. Log on and prove it."
Post by: ShyGuy on July 19, 2005, 12:51:30 PM
So what defines a killer app? according to wikipedia:
Quote
A killer application (commonly shortened to killer app) is a computer program that is so useful that people will buy a particular computer hardware, gaming console, and/or an operating system simply to run that program.
For example. Joe six-pack bought his Xbox just so he could play Halo.
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 19, 2005, 03:24:28 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 19, 2005, 03:54:24 PM
And I could have sworn that TP was comming out on GC.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 19, 2005, 10:31:50 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 20, 2005, 02:55:13 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on July 20, 2005, 07:17:21 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on July 20, 2005, 10:16:23 AM
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 20, 2005, 10:52:36 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 20, 2005, 06:00:04 PM
Anyhoo. I figre that most people who don't een own a cube have at least played SSBM and I can't imagine anyone not liking it. With the game going online it could really help the system and if this "Metroid Prime3 visor" stuff is true then that could also help.
Post by: IceCold on July 20, 2005, 09:51:24 PM
QuoteI believe he is saying that not having RE5 will make Nintendo's image of being kiddy even worse, a notion that I don't necessarily agree with, because Nintendo can still do plenty to improve that "image"
Originally posted by: TVman
Nosferat2: Are you saying that if RE5 doesn't come out on the rev then the rev will fail? Or are you saying that RE5=Tiku?
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 22, 2005, 09:36:33 PM
RE4
Killer 7
Geist
Spartan Total warrior
Zelda
all these games are going to keep me busy for a long while, so im not concerned with the REV yet. But If Ninty can drop 5 titles like these a year then im all over the REV....But if not, then ill stick with teh GC cause i still have MGS:TT, RE0, RE3, Timesplitters 2, Both Prince of Persias, Call of Duty, Tales of symphonia, Ocania of Time, PN:03, MK Deception, Lord of the Ring the 3rd age, True Crime, Turok, Hitman 2, and Dead to Rights, AnD starwars rougue squadron 2 along with the 5 Games i mentioned earlier to start or finish playing. So the REV can come in 2007 and i still wont be able to finsh all these damn games....
Post by: Dasmos on July 22, 2005, 09:44:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
Just look at whats happening already, Confirmed for the REV: Smash brothers and FFCC! and no RE5! What will the typical Geystation of xLax owner think already?
The the typical owner won't even probably know it has been announced! Most of my friends, who either own only a PS2 or a PS2 and gamecube, didn't even know RE4 was coming out for PS2.....and now they are supposed to think less of Nintendo because it has not YET been announced for REV?
I don't think 'typical' was the word you were thinking of...
Post by: cubist on July 25, 2005, 07:02:52 PM
