Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on June 26, 2005, 11:31:22 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on June 26, 2005, 11:38:43 PM
Post by: RABicle on June 27, 2005, 12:40:00 AM
Seriosuly though, a good editorial. And I list video games under my hobbies on my resumé!
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 27, 2005, 01:08:34 AM
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Even my dad (who once bought me a SNES with only Super Mario World in hopes of boring me out of games)
rab: golf can be exciting, and more importantly, violent. Haven't you ever played Outlaw Golf? Me neither, but I hear they hit their weak caddies with clubs, sounds like they have the right idea
Post by: Deguello on June 27, 2005, 01:10:12 AM
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I couldn't fit this in the editorial comfortably, but I wanted to point out that the ESA is VERY GENEROUS about what it considers gaming. Those stats seem to include any sort of shockwave game, and if they play ONCE in the WHOLE YEAR, they have "played video games" in 2004.
That's one of the things that bothers me about the industry. They do things like this to say that more people are playing video games than going to movies. The continual comparison that the ESA makes between games and movies that asserts that game companies are making more money become less "shocking," "wow," and "growth industry" and more "why do they keep repeating that line?"
It is because the games industry, with a few exceptions, still feels insecure about the acceptance of games as a "new entertainment media" and constantly compares itself to more established media like films. Did you ever wonder why Hollywood never responds back to the ESA? Because it doesn't matter. Becuase people will always go to movies and for a long time. Not everybody will play videogames, and moreso will they devote a chunk fo their life to it. And furthermore the ESA fails to mention that Movie-to-Game tie-ins are a rather large chunk of the Games market, whereas the Game-to-Movie market is the most insignificant thing to ever happen to films. Hollywood knows that if it weren't for them, the games industry wouldn't have to numbers that they so loudly brag about in the first place.
My 2 cents.
Post by: RABicle on June 27, 2005, 03:19:29 AM
QuoteDouble the Fist, fisted up golf by making it real time instead of turn based and arming a panda with a handgun to shoot players. Best game. Mephisto won.
rab: golf can be exciting, and more importantly, violent. Haven't you ever played Outlaw Golf? Me neither, but I hear they hit their weak caddies with clubs, sounds like they have the right idea
And I love my new avatar. It's funny though, when people ask my hobbies I always say "widescreen" people stand back in awe.
Post by: Shecky on June 27, 2005, 03:24:04 AM
Post by: Famicom on June 27, 2005, 06:09:14 AM
This was also before I got into anime as a hobby too. Now THAT'S something I'd be afraid to list.
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on June 27, 2005, 07:31:57 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 27, 2005, 07:32:37 AM
Most people regard wrestling fans as inbred hicks. In comparison gaming seems quite respectable. Nobody says "you know it's fake, don't you" when you play games.I don't put either of those interests on my resume. It sucks, but why be honest about something so minor if it could cost you a job? It's the same thing with relationships. I might as well wait until a girl knows me well enough to make an informed opinion of my gaming interest than to blow it on the first date for a stupid reason. Fortunately I play guitar which is a respected interest and is a legitimate interest of mine so I always have something to work with. If you don't have something like that that's too bad though really if gaming is your only interest then even I'm a little turned off. Not because you're a gamer but because you have only one interest.
And my parents have been down on my gaming interest as well, though not as much as my wrestling interest. God I could start a whole editorial on THAT topic.
Post by: nickmitch on June 27, 2005, 10:50:29 AM
People are always on me about how much I play videogames in relation to school work, but it's never really been a problem. I can always not play for three weeks when there are projects and exams and such. I hate having to not play for a long period of time but I can do it if I have to.
Post by: vudu on June 27, 2005, 11:15:05 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on June 27, 2005, 11:54:38 AM
*APPLAUSE*
Games are scapegoats, that's the only way I can explain it. Maybe someday they'll be accepted as legitimate media, but look at the result of mainstream movies and music
. I wouldn't wish that on anyone's hobby
Post by: IceCold on June 27, 2005, 12:08:11 PM
I don't put video games as a hobby on applications/surveys etc because, as mentioned, many people have negative stereotypes about video games, including the addictive nature of them, the graphic violence etc. They fail to realize that there are some gems out there that do not have anything to do with these stereotypes, and those are the ones I play. Still, they would never understand this, so I just choose to omit it.
It's more acceptable (and easier on your part) to put down something to do with literature, sports, or music. I have an interest in all three, so I am able to do this legitimately. There just aren't the negative connotations attached to these. The employer can relate to these things, as they are probably more informed about them and understand them more.
I watch pro wrestling on and off; I catch a few major PPVs here or there, and sometimes I watch free TV if there's anything good on. I watch them for the athleticism and the ability of the wrestlers. However, sometimes you see something in a show that's so f-cking stupid that you feel like you never want to watch that show again. You could flip the channel to a wrestling show and hear someone talking about bestiality sex. That really puts me off, and that gives wrestling the bad reputation that it has in the eyes of society. That's why I stick to watching matches, therefore PPVs, rather than all the other stuff they add. And yes, video gaming as a hobby looks like gold compared to wrestling, because of the even worse reputation that precedes wrestling.
Post by: BigJim on June 27, 2005, 12:22:40 PM
If I interview or talk with someone in their 40s or 50s, I wouldn't even try. It remains a guilty pleasure along with other things like wrestling. Heh. They usually don't have their finger on the pulse of pop culture. And there's no doubt that video games have become a subset of pop culture.
Talk about games with someone closer to my age, and it's usually a different story.
Post by: gally on June 27, 2005, 01:11:32 PM
I made an effort to show my parents and grandmother innovative games like Donkey Kong Jungle Beat and Katamari Damacy, to show them that games are often light-hearted, playful and fun, unlike the violent stereotype the media loves to put on them.
Of course, the constant sound of gunfire coming from my younger brother's bedroom doesn't help the image any. Thank goodness he's open-minded as well, and also enjoys his Marios, Sonics, etc. It's just that his greater interests lean towards FPSs and MMORPGs.
The problem that I have right now is not only that "gamer" can yield images of the Grand Theft Auto series, but also that gamers tend to refer to such immature, juvenile antics as "mature", "sophisticated", and other such meaningless buzzwords to try to make themselves seem more adult, but instead have the opposite effect to the outside world, kind of like what a 12 year old who smokes would look like to an adult.
Post by: ruby_onix on June 27, 2005, 01:57:42 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 27, 2005, 02:16:28 PM
That brings up a good point that relates to gaming as well. When someone doesn't understand a form of entertainment they cannot tell between good or bad. So if you're a fan they assume you like everything. I don't like most of the silly skits in wrestling. I like Flair and Steamboat wrestling their asses off for an hour. But it doesn't matter what's on, I'm a fan so I MUST like everything. It's the same with games to an extent. It's assumed that you play stuff like Manhunt because it's a game and you're a gamer so you must like it.
Hell you even see that attitude in a more innocent situation. How often have you received a terrible game from a relative as a gift? That relative knows you're a gamer so they just grab any old game without an research because it's a game and you're a gamer so you must like it. No one does that with music though. It's pretty rare for someone to know you like music and then just go and buy you a random CD. That's because everyone likes music so thus everyone knows that musical tastes are not universal.
"My experience hasn't been a social acceptance issue as much as it is a generational divide."
I think it's both. Obviously I find older people just don't understand games because games just didn't exist when they were young. But I find tons of people my own age have the same negative views. If it's a generation thing then I wouldn't be concerned about telling a girl I like that I game. I don't date woman over 40. Anyone I date is going to be around the same age as me. I even know people who used to game as kids that now have a negative attitude towards it. Maybe it's because when I was a kid adults didn't game so a lot of people my age still see it as a kids hobby. Our kids however will be raised in an era where gaming appeals to all ages so maybe then it will be different. It might still be a generation issue but it's a lot more complicated than my Dad's parents not getting rock 'n' roll and everyone born since then getting it.
Post by: gally on June 27, 2005, 02:25:06 PM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
That brings up a good point that relates to gaming as well. When someone doesn't understand a form of entertainment they cannot tell between good or bad. So if you're a fan they assume you like everything. I don't like most of the silly skits in wrestling. I like Flair and Steamboat wrestling their asses off for an hour. But it doesn't matter what's on, I'm a fan so I MUST like everything. It's the same with games to an extent. It's assumed that you play stuff like Manhunt because it's a game and you're a gamer so you must like it.
Exactly, but at the same time, a lot of people don't know what games ARE out there. If all they hear about on the news is stuff like Manhunt, they think that all video games are like Manhunt. So it's more like "you like video games? So you must like Grand Theft Auto," simply because Grand Theft Auto is well-known. It's the first thing that comes to their mind, and is their outsider's view on games.
That's why whenever I mention, or it is brought up, that I am a "gamer", I try to clarify that my tastes are actually rather diverse, and even provide specific examples (i.e. Katamari Damacy, which is as far removed from the media's portrayal of games as you can get).
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on June 27, 2005, 03:50:39 PM
As many have echoed, the problem is as much our FEAR as anything else. We shouldn't have to "take a chance" when we mention we like playing video games. I need to get out of this office and grab some food!
Post by: Nemo4ever on June 27, 2005, 05:21:17 PM
There's no real solution at this point. I really wish video game publishers would venture for more imaginative, unique games in the hopes that something would capture the public's interest and broaden people's view of video games.
Cartoons STILL haven't escaped their stigma amongst the older crowd. While listening to The Simpsons DVD commentary, they mentioned that Don Rickles flatly turned down their request to guest star on an episode. Conan O'Brien commented that he believes many old people still view cartoon as a dumb kids thing after all these years.
This problem isn't isolated to video games or cartoons either. Rap music only recently hit mainstream acceptance and a lot of people still view it as garbage. That's due to the most prominent images of rap music being violent and offensive, but someone who investigates a little will find a lot of artists with real substance outside of the crude, materialistic crap out there.
Post by: Bloodworth on June 27, 2005, 06:48:00 PM
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That brings up a good point that relates to gaming as well. When someone doesn't understand a form of entertainment they cannot tell between good or bad.
This is slightly off subject, but crap, I cannot tell you how much I hate it when people ask if I like Anime. I like certain shows and movies, but just because a bunch of Japanese guys got together and created something does not guarantee I'll like it. There's a complete ignorance to the breadth of that medium too.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on June 27, 2005, 07:22:47 PM
Yeah, even I tend to fall into the trap of questioning people who "like Anime," not because anime is bad or anything (I like it too!), but becuase of the culture that tends to surround westerners who call themselves Otaku. In my opinion, unlike gamers, otaku seem to go out of their way to behave as though they have superior taste--be it hatred of mainstream anime or absurdly obsessive bashing of anything dubbed. Not everyone who falls into the anime crowd acts like this, but they do not identify themselves as otaku. Of course, the same haughtiness could be said of gamers, who don't like most movie franchise games, and currently casual gamers don't identify themselves as gamers either.
Boy, I'm a hypocrite! Still, I'm having trouble resolving this without unfairly generalizing when someone says "I like to watch anime." Sure, I have friends who are really into the anime "genre" (which Dan points out is ultra-vague), and I can respect them as people, but I'll never understand how someone can call an excellent localization of an anime that isn't *exactly* like the source "bad."
Post by: Bloodworth on June 27, 2005, 07:25:31 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on June 27, 2005, 09:49:46 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on June 28, 2005, 04:01:21 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 28, 2005, 06:03:12 AM
Spirited Away rocks too, I can only hope he didn't take her advice. Whore.
Post by: ruby_onix on June 28, 2005, 01:59:04 PM
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...but I'll never understand how someone can call an excellent localization of an anime that isn't *exactly* like the source "bad."
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And most companies don't generally select "broken" products for localization in the first place. (And even when they do, one man's trash is another man's treasure.)
I'm not Wapanese (Japanese wannabe). I'm fully capable of appreciating dubs. But IMO, when someone takes something that's already great, and tries to make it "better", they're being arrogant, presumptious, and disrespectful. Can their egos not handle "simply" being a messenger of good taste? Do they have to interject themselves into everything they touch? And they usually find excuses for what they do, by insulting their audience ("the masses").
Almost every time I examine the changes made in localizations, I find that they are changes made for the worse. It seems to be embedded into their very nature. If you're capable of truly appreciating a product, then you're not one of the mindless masses, and the changes were not made for you.
However, I'm capable of enjoying things without dwelling too much on the flaws. It's just a "philosophy" issue that bugs me in varying degrees, depending on how it's implemented.
IMO, Nintendo of America is fundamentally on the wrong side in that philosophy, but they don't seem to be a problem (lately). However, NoA's favorite allies (like 4Kids) are a really big problem.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on June 28, 2005, 05:29:00 PM
Anime localization teams are certainly aware that there is a group who would want a direct translation, and is also aware of fansubs ;-)
EDIT: Just read the post about Spirited Away, KN. Sheesh! I mean, I actually didn't like Spirited Away (neither did my dad, who surprisingly was the one who rented it!), but it's amazing how people can throw all animation from one country in one gaint bin. It's like she's putting that film next to Yu-Gi-Oh....
Post by: mantidor on June 28, 2005, 07:20:08 PM
great editorial, its the geek stigma I suppose, which fortunately isnt as bad here, you are actually kind of cool of you play videogames or watch anime, probably because its not as easily accesible for everyone as in the states for economic reasons, so that makes you kind of special, still in "geeky" way of course.
The one thing that made me raise an eyebrow was that ESA survey, the average gamer's age is 30? I highly, highly doubt that.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 28, 2005, 09:49:52 PM
Post by: Mario on June 29, 2005, 06:38:50 PM
Post by: xts3 on July 03, 2005, 05:32:23 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 03, 2005, 09:20:11 PM
And I'm the most hardcore gamer at my school. But they're mostly just casuals and madden fanatics. Some buy no more than 3 or 4 games a year. I, on the other hand, bought 4 games just today. There were other hardcore gamers like me at the school but I'm loosing them to the harsh reality of BFHS education.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 04, 2005, 02:53:25 AM
Post by: stevey on July 04, 2005, 01:16:21 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 04, 2005, 02:41:05 PM
And if it makes KDR happy: All the lazy kids watch dubbed anime.
Post by: stevey on July 04, 2005, 03:45:13 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 04, 2005, 07:14:23 PM
And, you know, around. . .
Post by: Dasmos on July 04, 2005, 10:27:03 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 05, 2005, 12:19:18 AM
Sorry, but that's beyond ridiculous. Try to keep it a little more believable.
Plust they were all DS games so it wasn't that bad.
'round here that'd mean 160 Euros, 150 if one of the games was Polarium. Roughly 200$... To think how many PC games you could buy for that money...
Post by: nickmitch on July 05, 2005, 03:44:46 PM
1. Kirby: Canvas Curse for $34.99
2. Bomberman for $29.99
3. Feel The Magic XX/XY for $29.99
4. Pac Pix for $29.99
Pre total: $124.96
Add 9% Louisiana sales tax ($11.25) and my total comes to $136.21.
I almost didn't get Pac Pix because I thought that I wouldn't have enough but I did!
I had like $170 saved up plus a few extra dollars (which I spent today at Sonic
) when I went so I was left with about $38. But I had to loan money to my brother (which I regret because I could have gotten Polarium
)
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 07, 2005, 09:22:40 PM
I disassociate myself from gamers as much as possible; I do not want to be compared to some of the morons that play games. In fact, I hate the vast majority of gamers. And I don't mean Xbox and Playstation fans, some of them are great, but it's hard to find someone who's actually fun to play with (however, I usually find that in Nintendo fans).
Since I try to avoid association with gamers, I seldom bother mentioning that I like Nintendo. I don't shy away from it if it's brought up, but I don't list it as a hobby or anything either, go out of my way to talk about it. I'm not ashamed of my gaming nature, of course, it's just something I don't feel compelled to bring up among others unless we're actually talking about games.
Post by: Dasmos on July 07, 2005, 11:43:51 PM
Post by: Dasmos on July 07, 2005, 11:45:47 PM
