Post by: ruby_onix on May 22, 2005, 01:14:23 PM
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In the wake of the consoles' unveiling, some developers are already leaning toward one platform.
"I was shocked by how powerful the new consoles are," said Julian Eggebrecht, president of the San Rafael, Calif.-based game development company Factor 5. "They should really free our development."
Eggebrecht said his company--which developed "Star Wars: Rogue Squadron" for Nintendo's GameCube--would create games exclusively for Sony's upcoming PlayStation 3.
The choice boiled down to performance, Eggebrecht said at E3 in Los Angeles. His company has worked with Microsoft's Xbox 360, but found PlayStation 3's 3.2GHz Cell chip offered more processing power. The additional performance allows the gang at Factor 5 to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience, he said.
Marin Independant Journal
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Factor 5, best known for the "Star Wars: Rogue Squadron" series, has an even bigger announcement. After years of working exclusively with Nintendo, the San Rafael studio is signing on with Sony to develop two original titles for the just-unveiled PlayStation 3. It also has created a non-interactive demonstration that Sony is using to show the system's capabilities.
"It's a huge step up," said Factor 5 President Julian Eggebrecht of the PS3. "It's quite crazy, with production values so high."
As production costs skyrocket and publishers become less willing to pursue original ideas, Eggebrecht said, the opportunity to work with Sony was inviting.
"What's great is that Sony stepped up to the plate and said, 'Hey, we believe in you guys, so why don't we do something original together?'" Eggebrecht said.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 22, 2005, 01:45:10 PM
Screw this. Nintendo's dead in the water.
(Yes, I'm being pessimistic.)
Post by: Kairon on May 22, 2005, 02:22:50 PM
Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 22, 2005, 02:24:52 PM
HEAR ME FOOLS
LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF REASON
Post by: Arbok on May 22, 2005, 02:25:52 PM
Post by: jasonditz on May 22, 2005, 02:27:32 PM
RS2 was an excellent game... I loved it personally... RS3 was an excellent game too... but it was basically the same excellent game with better graphics. It wasn't nearly as popular and didn't sell nearly as well.
I enjoyed the series and I'm sad to see it go, but their philosophy of pumping out essentially the same game with better graphics and different levels really does fit a lot better with MS or Sony.
Post by: joshnickerson on May 22, 2005, 02:30:32 PM
I'm just interested to see, if they DO make something "original" with Sony, or just fall back on their Star Wars licence. Hrm.
Post by: jasonditz on May 22, 2005, 02:32:11 PM
Post by: Savior on May 22, 2005, 03:02:18 PM
Nintendos developers keep jumping ship generation after generation. Makes me sligthly concerned.
Post by: mantidor on May 22, 2005, 04:09:48 PM
specially since the only games announced so far for Rev are Nintendo games and a FF cristal chronicles one, while the ps3 has this big list already...
Post by: ruby_onix on May 22, 2005, 05:20:43 PM
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Oh hay, let's just use the thread in the Other Systems board, mmmkay. Since they no longer have anything to do with the Rev and all.
I figured it was more of a "blow against the Rev/Nintendo" than it was a "win for PS3/Sony".
But, whatever.
*shrug*
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 22, 2005, 05:25:55 PM
But you seem to be the only person that read my post, so I guess I FAIL.So yeah, Factor 5 meant nothing but pretty graphics to me, so meh. I was hoping to see what they could do with a Pilotwings game for the Rev, but oh well.
Post by: ruby_onix on May 22, 2005, 05:52:44 PM
And Factor 5 was all "WTF? We're pushing out 15 million polys in a GameCube launch title. That's more polys than the PS2 will likely ever do."
And now this time, Nintendo's all "We have no grafx! Three times as many polys as the Cube, maximum! Run away from us! Now!"
And Factor 5's all "Do you like my new hat? It's made of Sony's MONEY! BTW, Sony has all the megahurtz. LOL!"
Post by: nickmitch on May 22, 2005, 06:42:55 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 22, 2005, 07:56:05 PM
I wanted PilotWings so bad...
If they develope it for another platform, then that sucks for Nintendo cause I, not unlike many others, would jump ship as well (most likely buying both).
Post by: TMW on May 22, 2005, 08:07:49 PM
It is sad to seem them go, but...
They did make this announcement without even seeing The Rev's specs. I think this was less of a graphical issue and more of what Ruby said.
Money talks, and loser developers that only go where said "money" is walks.
...towards the money.
Post by: Arbok on May 22, 2005, 09:52:22 PM
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Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
This blows....
I wanted PilotWings so bad...
If they develope it for another platform, then that sucks for Nintendo cause I, not unlike many others, would jump ship as well (most likely buying both).
...PilotWings is a Nintendo franchise, hence Nester in the N64 offering. You won't see Factor 5 making it for PS3...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 22, 2005, 09:57:29 PM
Post by: Caillan on May 22, 2005, 10:05:31 PM
...towards the money."
What a load of crap. "Loyalty" to a company doesn't mean anything if you have employees to pay who have people to feed. We should be happy they worked for Nintendo at all instead of its more popular competitors in the first place. I'm not implying that this was the situation, but if Factor 5 wasn't making enough money working for Nintendo then it was Nintendo's problem: they should either have helped them or knowingly let them slip away. Because we don't really know what's been happening, surely we could spare the dev-hate this time?
So, NST or N-Space next? To be honest, those are the two that I care about the least.
Post by: Rancid Planet on May 22, 2005, 10:29:43 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 23, 2005, 03:05:38 AM
I just hope those rights are just Starwars titles (or something comparatively inane), not Turrican or Giana Sisters or something. But then, how many non-Starwars games have they made lately? OTOH, why the f#ck am I hoping? It's not like the games could be on a system I actually own so as long as it's not Microsoft I don't care.
Post by: jasonditz on May 23, 2005, 08:17:04 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 23, 2005, 01:16:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this was directly related to that "2 or 3 times as powerful as the Cube" stuff. We're concerned about Nintendo skimping on the hardware and here's a company that is very technology oriented jumping ship. That's a little too coincedental. Same with SK. Since they focus on story focused content they require a certain level of technology. I'm REALLY afraid Nintendo's racing a slightly updated Cube against full on next gen consoles.
So the Cube dream team of Retro, Silicon Knights, Rare, Left Field, and Factor 5 is almost completely gone. Gee people are REALLY going to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt now. So far we've got former loyalists jumping ship, rumours of the Rev being grossly underpowered, vague comments from Miyamoto and Iwata that suggest very weak third party support, various comments by Iwata in regards to focusing on non-gamers, and a virtual no show at E3. Buy hey you can play old NES games on the Rev. Yahoo.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 23, 2005, 01:25:39 PM
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Since they focus on story focused content they require a certain level of technology.
That doesn't make a lick of sense.
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So the Cube dream team of Retro, Silicon Knights, Rare, Left Field, and Factor 5
Rare has been one of the worst devs this generation, so losing them is a positive. Retro is still here. SK, I'll admit was a big loss. Left Field- weren't they the ones who did Excitebike 64? Have they done anything else worth noting? Factor 5 wasn't all that great anyway. They made two GC games and one of them sucked. Both sucked in my opinion, but the first RS is generally liked.
It looks bad all together like that, but it's not really THAT big of a deal. With teams like Retro, Camelot, Alpha Dream, and Intelligent Systems, Nintendo still WINS.
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Buy hey you can play old NES games on the Rev. Yahoo.
NES, SNES, N64, GC, and Rev. Damn straight, yahoo. That's the biggest yahoo on Earth.
Post by: jasonditz on May 23, 2005, 01:44:13 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on May 23, 2005, 02:00:50 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if this was directly related to that "2 or 3 times as powerful as the Cube" stuff.
Quite a while back, weren't there rumors saying that LucasArts stepped in and demanded that Factor 5 stop messing around exclusively with Nintendo and the GameCube, at which point Factor 5 ported their MusyX and DivX tool sets to the PS2/Xbox (which wasn't a big deal, as neither console really needed those tools like the Cube did)?
And then supposedly Factor 5 was ordered to port Rogue Squadron 3 to the Xbox? But that never happened.
Now they're saying they've already got experience with the Xbox360. I'm guessing Microsoft asked them to put it on the Xbox360, rather than the Xbox. At which point Sony came along and "made them an offer", and they decided that the PS3 beats the Xbox360.
The odd thing (IMO) is that Factor 5 seems to be so "into" Sony right now that they're even making one of those non-interactive demos to show off the supposed power of the PS3.
The ball just doesn't seem to have been in Nintendo's court with Factor 5 lately. And Nintendo doesn't seem to want to run out onto the road to claim it back from the guys who are tossing it around.
Does anyone know if Factor 5 helped to design the sound chip of the Revolution, or has done any work on dev-kit tools for it?
Edit: Found some semi-relevant GameSpot and PGC links.
Post by: Savior on May 23, 2005, 04:03:18 PM
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they done anything else worth noting? Factor 5 wasn't all that great anyway. They made two GC games and one of them sucked. Both
Once again, Factor 5 was more than a game maker, they spent alot of time making tools to push Nintendo hardware, its a BIG losss. Lets not spin this like we did Rare.
Left Field made MTX Motortrax. Which was pretty good. they seem to know the dirt bike genre well.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 23, 2005, 04:24:49 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on May 23, 2005, 07:24:20 PM
Then they made Dolby Pro-Logic 2 work with videogames, to compensate for the GameCube's lack of Dolby Digital support, and then gave their work back to Dolby, who obviously offered it to any and all interested parties. IIRC, despite all the mocking the Cube got for it, there are more PS2 and Xbox games using DPL2 than there are using Dolby Digital, because DPL2 really is more suitable for interactive videogames than DD is, just like Nintendo/Factor 5 kept saying.
Then they made a DivX tool set so developers complaining about the GameCube's disc size could fit more FMV into their games.
Then they ported their MusyX and DivX tools to the PS2/Xbox, where they were unneeded and largely ignored.
Now it seems that Factor 5 is probably going to be making tools for the PS3. Given Cell's supposed complexity and new ways of doing things, it's probably where they're needed the most.
With the Revolution using the same API as the GameCube, people are probably just going to use the GameCube's MusyX tools as their Revolution audio tools. I mean, does anyone know if they were ever supposed to be "lacking" or anything?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 23, 2005, 08:43:27 PM
Sorry I didn't really elaborate on it. Since they focus on story based content presentation is important. Thus music, sound, and graphics have to be at a certain level to create the right presentation. If the Rev's hardware is significantly weaker they have more options for their presentation on another console.
Post by: Galford on May 24, 2005, 06:00:22 PM
How did a company that once was so close to Nintendo(the had input into the design of Gamecube) in one generation just jump ship?
Post by: KDR_11k on May 25, 2005, 06:35:08 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 25, 2005, 07:45:19 AM
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Sorry I didn't really elaborate on it. Since they focus on story based content presentation is important. Thus music, sound, and graphics have to be at a certain level to create the right presentation. If the Rev's hardware is significantly weaker they have more options for their presentation on another console.
1. Video game stories almost all SUCK, and it will still suck even after a facelift.
2. What CAN'T current generation hardware do?
3. It still doesn't make sense, and it never will.
Post by: jpturner on May 25, 2005, 09:05:13 AM
Post by: Djunknown on May 25, 2005, 03:36:16 PM
I don't get Lucas Art's logic. I remember early in the Xbox's lifecycle there was an awful Star Wars game based on Obi-Wan's adventures between eps I-II. But did they stop developing for the 'box? Nope.
Rogue Leader is a hit, but Rebel Strike misses. Lucas Arts deems teh 'Cube teh Kitty! Re-f'n-diculous.
Now at the topic at hand, what else can Factor 5 do? Maybe this deal with Sony will answer that. They cranked out Rogue leader in record time (8 months from start to finish if I'm not mistaken). Can they do something similiar with the PS3?
I'm not too mad since they're independent. Its not like Rare or Sk, where Nintendo personally invested a lot into those companies. And its not like Sony's buying them out. Maybe we'll see Factor 5 across all platforms, challenging themselves to effectively use all the different hardware.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2005, 12:36:46 AM
Post by: jpturner on May 26, 2005, 07:39:29 AM
If Nintendo can't get Lucas Arts to bring Lego Star Wars to Nintendo Gamecue, then good luck with other titles! If there was a recent game which made sense for the Gamecube's younger demographic (perceived or real), it was this game, which is selling like gangbusters for both PS2 and Xbox. Again, too depressing. I agree with Djunknown's thoughts: 1 bad title (sales wize) and now it's time to give up on Nintendo? Doesn't make sense for today, doesn't look good for tomorrow.
.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 26, 2005, 09:23:40 AM
Post by: ruby_onix on July 08, 2005, 09:54:31 PM
Post by: heinous_anus on July 10, 2005, 10:22:03 PM
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Originally posted by: ruby_onix
BTW, in the latest IGN-Cube rantbag, Matt speculates that Factor 5 left because Nintendo is doomed and the Rev sucks and all that usual stuff.
He does? You must be reading a different "mailbag" than I did. Seems like Matt postulates that Nintendo and Factor 5 were just on different wavelengths.
Post by: ruby_onix on July 11, 2005, 02:21:57 AM
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Pilotwings
Has Nintendo confirmed whether or not Pilotwings would show up on the Revolution? I thought there was news of this game coming to the Gamecube awhile back but then it was speculated to be coming out for the Revolution. Any info on this would be appreciated.
Matt responds: This is going pretty far back. I wrote an article at E3 2003 about it, actually. Basically, Shigeru Miyamoto took the stage and waxed on about Nintendo's relationship with Factor 5. He proudly showed off the graphically impressive shooter Star Wars Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike and then said that Factor 5 and Nintendo were working closely together on another exclusive title for GameCube, which would be revealed at a later date. Meanwhile, I had heard and confirmed just a couple days before the event that the title in question was in fact an update to the Pilotwings franchise. As time passed, I was able to talk with some of the folks on the development side and they told me that any such title would in fact not make it out for GameCube -- that instead it was being prepped for Nintendo's next-generation console.
Still with me? Good. There's a little more.
Turns out that somewhere between then and now Nintendo decided to make the Revolution something dramatically different than it had originally intended -- a machine that doesn't quite follow the same structure as those from competitors Microsoft and Sony. Although Factor 5 enjoyed a good relationship with the Big N, it has always been a very tech-savvy company, and I assume that when it learned that technology would be downplayed in Revolution, it got a little freaked out and started to evaluate other options. Meanwhile, in typical form, Nintendo wasn't exactly forthcoming or very helpful in any collaborative effort, preferring to keep every fact of its new hardware top secret, even as specs and details from the other systems began to spill out.
So to make a long story a little shorter, Factor 5 jumped ship. It's now developing games exclusive for PlayStation 3 and so obviously it won't be making any Pilotwings title for Revolution. I have no idea if legitimate work was ever really done on the now-defunct project, nor do I know if Nintendo has since assigned it to another developer. So for now, we have it listed as TBA until we hear something, one way or the other. I wouldn't hold my breath for it just yet.
The part above "Still with me?" is Matt doing reporting. The part beneath that is Matt's increasingly more common postulating.
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Turns out that somewhere between then and now Nintendo decided to make the Revolution something dramatically different than it had originally intended -- a machine that doesn't quite follow the same structure as those from competitors Microsoft and Sony.
This is Matt's usual whiney "we were supposed to get ______ but Nintendo took it away from us" nonsense.
Post by: Deguello on July 11, 2005, 02:49:26 AM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on July 11, 2005, 05:44:33 AM
Matt makes it seem like the revolution is just going to be a Gamecube with a little more ram
Post by: pudu on July 11, 2005, 07:21:27 AM
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Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
pilotwings+gyros = stellar
hmm I'm sorry for being pesimistic but what if the controller doesn't use gyros? So many people (including me) have said it so many times now that it's almost expected but nothing except for their investment in that gyro company has proven it to be true. It just pains me to see everyone bent on the inclusion of certain features where there is next to no evidence of them being included.
I'm not picking on you, Stimutacs Addict, I'm mearly saying ppl should try not to get their hopes up on certain things without more info. I'm trying my best not to but I understand it can be difficult.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 11, 2005, 07:26:48 AM
Though Matt should be clear about which points are fact, opinion, or speculation. Did Nintendo actually change what the Rev was supposed to be or has it always been the same and F5 and SK just didn't like what they saw? Back in 2003 the Rev would just be a vague concept. Ideally there probably wasn't any serious plans yet beyond just "it's the successor to the Cube." Nintendo might be going away from the traditional expectations of a next-gen console but that's different than telling Factor 5 "we're doing this" and then changing it. It sounds like Matt is speculating that point but he should be more clear. Did he learn from a source that Nintendo changed what the Rev initially was or is he just assuming they did?
We have lost a developer. That is a fact and that is bad. So I find it odd that some of you take that news so lightly.
Post by: nemo_83 on July 11, 2005, 11:19:13 AM
A better way they could really f themselves over is if they did something stupidly gimmicky like release a controller dependent on keeping track of your pulse and body temperature. Gamers would feel it was a waste. Gamers obviously want direct control changes with the REV like gyros, haptics, or some other mechanic.
I feel controllers suck right now for the games they have to control. It seems the better the game gets, the worse it controls (Metroid Prime). The more ambition and immersion involved the more difficult it gets to allow consumers, particular novice consumers to be able to control games.
I feel like making a new topic, but the board has been so dead it seems. Maybe its just me.
"There are too many buttons and sticks on controllers for novice players, which is likely to discourage them from ever playing games at all," he says. "We want the Revolution's controller to be relevant to everybody and we really want people to feel like they want to touch and play with it." -Iwata
use your imagination
Also check out this new news. "Nintendo has announced plans to make a PC-compatible wireless network adapter to work with the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection (the wireless network for DS and Revolution). It will use a USB 2.0 connection.While we don't have any details yet, basically, instead of an accessory that will let you go non-wireless, this accessory will make your current internet connection compatible with Wi-Fi." -Aussie Nintendo
the picture
Post by: Ian Sane on July 11, 2005, 11:42:41 AM
Yeah, I read that on the N-Sider forums. It's pretty much the usual from Iwata though worded a little differently. It makes sense to a point. I find the SNES controller much easier to work with than the Cube controller. But how do you go backwards? After making games for so many years that use so many buttons and two analog sticks how do you remove items from the controller and expect games to continue to go forward? Once you add something to a controller it's there forever. You can't remove it without limiting game design. For example every Nintendo game released for the Cube would not be possible without at least one analog stick and most wouldn't work without two. If the Rev controller was simplified too much then games like that just plain wouldn't exist on the Rev. So I'm very curious as to how Iwata plans on cutting down on buttons and sticks without completely wanging modern game design.
Post by: nemo_83 on July 11, 2005, 12:01:08 PM
The analog stick sucks for camera and that is for sure. Maybe they could simply put a trackball on the controller. This goes back to what I said in the above paragraph. What if they just slap four face buttons on the controller along with shoulder functions, don't put sticks or trackballs on the controller; and use the gyros to replace the stick/trackball setup.
I find a stick and trackball to be more important for facial mechanics on the controller than having face buttons or a dpad. I want fewer face buttons and to keep the stick along with the gyro. I simply care less about buttons than I do about having moving parts that do unique things.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on July 11, 2005, 12:17:28 PM
Just look at Squareenix, their president has become more outspoken in regards to the Rev and from what he's said, it seems Squareenix is more than excited bout it. Squareenix is a very graphic intensive company so the fact that they are excited about the Rev should give you an indication that the system isn't as underpowered as everyone is making it out to be. What this could mean is either Sony and MS are throwing around money to recieve more support/or take away some of Nintendo's key developers or whatever the Rev actually is, is geared more towards Japanese developers. If this is true, then it could warrent SK and Factor 5 making their changes and Sqaureenix's new found love for Nintendo.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 11, 2005, 12:35:23 PM
Games released at a slower rate is better than no games at all. We've lost something that was good. That sucks. Period. We gain NOTHING by Factor 5 and Silicon Knights jumping ship. People say that Rare wasn't the big of a loss but did we gain anything from them leaving? No. It was just less games for the Cube.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 11, 2005, 12:39:09 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 11, 2005, 01:05:36 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 11, 2005, 01:10:33 PM
I asked what WE gained, not Nintendo. Like the "Nintendo is always profitable" arguement if us gamers do not directly benefit then it doesn't matter.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on July 11, 2005, 01:18:05 PM
Everyone has to remember, Nintendo has to support itself (1 home console, a future home console plus 2 handhelds and a possible future handheld) AND at the same time try and keep third parties happy whereas Sony and MS's primary concern IS 3rd parties alone since they cannot survive without them, they can't rely on themselves to hold them up. Those are 2 completely different approaches and thus is one of the reasons 3rd parties flock to those other consoles. They are better appreciated there by Sony and MS plus the consumers. Sony and MS want them there cuase they NEED them and the publishers don't really have to worry about competing with Nintendo's games, which is what seems to be Nintendo's consumers only consern since thats what they seem to purchase excusively.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on July 11, 2005, 01:23:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Nintendo gained something around 256 million dollars for Rare."
I asked what WE gained, not Nintendo. Like the "Nintendo is always profitable" arguement if us gamers do not directly benefit then it doesn't matter.
The fact that Nintendo exists is our benefit. Its sad that you fail to see that. Nintendo making money, keeps Nintendo in the game. To me, thats all that matters cuase I can always go to other consoles to play thier specific games but I can't go there to play Nintendo games. I can only speak for myself but if Nintendo weren't making games anymore, then I can say that I'll be a less frequent gamer.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 11, 2005, 01:26:51 PM
Either way, it was 256 million dollars in exchange for funding a second party that produces the gaming equivilent of amoebic dysentery seems good
Post by: Ian Sane on July 11, 2005, 01:36:57 PM
I'd say that's argueable. The N64 didn't have much third party support but aside from Konami I can't think of any third parties that got fed up and left. Virtually every third party that supported the N64 was on board to support the Cube initially. Compare this to the Cube where practically every third party that supported the console has left. Capcom provided us with some good stuff but I really question how excited they are about the Rev. Their shareholders seem pretty pissed off about the end results of Capcom Cube support. There was a period where the Cube's third party support killed the N64's but the end result seems to be much worse. When the Cube was revealed I assumed that third party support was going to get better. With the Rev I'm prepared for practically no third party support. Right now I'd say Nintendo's relationship with third parties is the worst it's ever been. I can't think of any third party that would give better treatment to Nintendo then it would Sony or MS.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on July 11, 2005, 02:34:03 PM
Also, you can piss and moan all you want about Nintendo's 3rd party position but when it all comes down to it, blame us, the consumers for not buying 3rd party games. Thats why 3rd party is weak on Nintendo's system, becuase we, Nintendo fans, as a majority dont support them. The consumers are more to blame as is Nintendo. Nintendo can throw all the money in the world at advertisement and getting exclusive 3rd party games, but for what? Regardless, the consumer doesn't buy them in the amount that it deserves. Look at RE4, argueably one of the best games produced this current generation and its selling less than it deserves. Nintendo is doing their job, we the consumers, aren't for one reason or another.
Post by: 31 Flavas on July 11, 2005, 02:50:07 PM
QuoteI suppose too can only speak for myself, but most of my appeal for Nintendo has been that it doesn't try to be the showboat like Microsoft or Sony or Sega. That doesn't mean that I am disrespecting Sega and Sony and Microsoft for always trying to upstage Nintendo or each other.... but I appreciate it and just can't get it elsewhere. Besides trying to smash Nintendo under your technological foot, why not just try to make a game or system that is just fun. Stop showboating with blood, stealth, darkness, killing, GTA, and graphics, cd/dvd/bluray/hddvd, hdd, whatever, and make a fun game / fun system. If it has to be slightly less then a graphical masterpiece or maybe not include online or use a bongo, or for that matter, be a bit K!DDY, or something then so be it.
Originally posted by: Truthliesn1seyes
[...] To me, thats all that matters cuase I can always go to other consoles to play thier specific games but I can't go there to play Nintendo games. I can only speak for myself but if Nintendo weren't making games anymore, then I can say that I'll be a less frequent gamer.
edit: interesting does the forum software not let me type tiku tiku tiku! tiku tiku tiku! kiddey? edit2: guess not. edit3: added a couple more discriptors.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 11, 2005, 02:55:43 PM
Bah. No fans of any other console ever were expected to feel guilty for not buying certain games. I buy whatever games I want be they first or third party. I should not feel responsible that certain games didn't sell. It's Nintendo's fault for not attracting a large enough userbase to accomodate third party sales.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on July 11, 2005, 02:56:46 PM
Again, everyone is asking for WAY TOO MUCH from Nintendo. Nintendo has the most responcibility of all 3 console manufactures. It has more systems to support, it has to sustain its own success, keep their fanbase coming back and try to catch a few new ones. Nintendo's high quality is a double edged sword, as a result of them producing triple A games consistently over the yrs, the people that buy their games only look foward to their own games. To me it seems like you want Nintendo to be Sony or MS yet still be Nintendo. You can't have it both ways, if Nintendo were to try and emulate Sony and MS they wouldn't be Nintendo anymore. This constant complaining is only visible with Nintendo fans. You never hear Sony fans talking bout what Sony needs to do and this and that. Why don't we here Sony and MS fans complaining why Sony and MS don't produce in house games of the same quality as Nintendo in a consistent basis?
With each suscesive generation, Nintendo has answered all our complains and what do we do, hit em with more.
N64 didn't have Square, practically no 3rd party support, and cartridges. Gcube comes out and what do we have? Squaresoft is back at least showing some support, we have better 3rd party support even though its for nothing, and we moved to discs as apposed to cartridges.
Gcube had a weak online structure/support and dwindling 3rd party support in the long run. Now whats Nintendo's plan for Rev? They are developing a console with developers needs in mind, they are giving us a free and extensive online community, they are giving us Mario kart, Super Smash Bro, Animal Crossing, a realistic Zelda, eventually I'm sure they'll bring pokemon online. They consistently answer our complaints but no one ever sees this. What has Sony and MS done to fix the complaints on their system with each successive generation? Practically nothing, yet you don't hear a peap from their fans.
Look at the big picture, Nintendo is doing everything it can and more to give us what we want. Stop looking for more reasons to complain.
Post by: Deguello on July 11, 2005, 03:25:35 PM
Post by: heinous_anus on July 11, 2005, 10:57:32 PM
What's with this argument that I hear constantly that people like Ian "want Nintendo to be more like Sony or MS"? That's preposterous, to equate a desire for better 3rd party support with a desire for Nintendo to 'emulate' Sony/MS. You argue that it's not possible, that we can't "have it both ways"...but it was on the SNES?
Ian is right, and I don't know how you can argue the point - it's Nintendo's responsibility to build a userbase, not our responsibility to buy certain games.
And ruby onix, what the hell is wrong with Matt's postulating? Jesus, it's the mailbag, of all things. Just because Matt's opinions make you mad...you gotta call him "whiney?" He seemed pretty calm and collected in that response - where exactly did he get whiney?
Post by: MrMojoRising on July 11, 2005, 11:04:20 PM
P.S. This is somewhat playing devils advocate for me because I do agree that Nintendo trys very hard to give us what we want...but if we didn't complain how will they know what we want
Post by: IceCold on July 11, 2005, 11:20:51 PM
And the 64 was the better overall system; it just didn't turn out. You think Nintendo didn't look at every single possibility before choosing between discs or cartridges? Shorter load times etc were obviously a priority for Nintendo rather than the space, and they are a priority for me. I consider those extremely important to my experience. It's just that Square, among many others, needed the space to waste. That was what caused the 3rd party problem, and it has carried over to today. If Nintendo had made a CD based console, there's no telling what would happen, but at the time they really gave it a lot of thought, and in the end, did what was right for them. Yes, this may be inconsiderate to the 3rd parties, but they still could have developed easily for the 64; they just didn't choose to.
Post by: ruby_onix on July 12, 2005, 12:30:26 AM
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The $256 million that Nintendo gained from Rare's sale - of course it benefited us! It gave Nintendo more funds to work with, whether it be for marketing (as you always say Ian, more marketing means larger userbase means more third party support for us) or funding for some of their projects (Retro included). This directly benefits us.
The money Nintendo got by selling Rare didn't benefit us. At all. Because the European Union took it, using "NES-era price fixing" as an excuse. I suppose if you want, you can say that the sale of Rare contributed to the success of the NES. Or that the EU will have less of an excuse to raid Nintendo the next time they come into some money.
As for why Factor 5 left, this thread has a better explanation than Matt does. They weren't "scared away" by the Revolution. According to Julian Eggebrecht, they were working on the Xbox360. Then Sony approached them and made them an offer they couldn't refuse. They were more likely scared away from the Xbox360 than they were from the Revolution.
As for Silicon Knights (since they were also mentioned in this thread), Denis Dyack said in a recent interview that Nintendo wasn't telling him what the big "secret" of the Revolution was. I gather from other interviews that Nintendo has just been telling developers to keep making games as usual, as if they were making GameCube games (since the Rev will use the same API), to just expect something without the limitations of the GameCube, and not to worry about "the secret".
Denis then went to visit Matt from IGN, hoping that Matt would tell him what the big "secret" was, since Nintendo wouldn't (little did Denis know, Matt doesn't know anything about the Rev). He came away from the meeting with Matt, and "they" decided that Nintendo is going down the wrong path with the Revolution, that SK and Nintendo are incompatible, and that SK (and any company like it) doesn't have a place in Nintendo's future. As the result of his meeting with Matt, Denis broke off second-party ties with Nintendo, started looking elsewhere, and Nintendo made no effort to stop him.
Now don't get me wrong, I think that all of these things are significant blows to Nintendo, that Nintendo could've done more to stop them, and that they need to do more to replace the things they've lost. But Nintendo is not entirely to blame, nor is the Revolution or DS hardware.
And, just my opinion, for a guy who admits to knowing nothing about the Revolution, Matt needs to stop being so pessimistic and get off it's back.
I gather from other interviews that Nintendo has just been telling developers to keep making games as usual, as if they were making GameCube games...
Post by: KDR_11k on July 12, 2005, 01:07:22 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 12, 2005, 05:06:48 AM
Nintendo used the Rare money to try and find new smaller development houses to bring fresh ideas. Nintendo was actually trying to find the next Pokemon. The next hot developer.
Nintendo actually does really good at building up developers and teaching them about gaming. Silicon Graphics should be praising Nintendo every single day because without Nintendo Silicon Graphics would still be a no-name developer. They were a company that knew how to make story games, but not really great playing games...and Nintendo showed them and taught them some tricks of the trade. Eternal Darkness is as much Nintendo's baby as it is Silicon Graphics.
I think the same was true about Rare and Factor 5. Nintendo worked very close with them on their projects. Heck Nintendo allowed Factor 5 to design sound compressions for their systems and such. However, Factor 5 leaves them because they wanted to branch out.
Well just like Rare I expect the next games from these companies to be below par compared to the games Nintendo helped them with.
I am not worried about the loss of these companies. I have very limited funds and I only want to play the best games. To me that is usually high quality Nintendo games, and a few select 3rd party games.
Post by: Galford on July 12, 2005, 06:16:51 AM
Silicon Graphics makes computer hardware.
Post by: IceCold on July 12, 2005, 08:32:17 AM
Post by: ruby_onix on July 12, 2005, 01:44:30 PM
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You can not connect the EU fees on Nintendo to the selling of Rare. The EU would have been against Nintendo on that issue even if Nintendo didn't sell Rare...then what? Nintendo would have still lost that money.
1985 - ??? Nintendo breaks a bunch of laws.
September 2002 - Nintendo sells Rare, a European company, for what's apparently guessed to be around £175 million.
October 2002 - The EU fines Nintendo in the amount of £92.1 million, for price fixing.
I think there's a link. And even if there isn't, I think it's close enough to say that this is where most of the money went.
Post by: IceCold on July 12, 2005, 07:12:58 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 12, 2005, 08:51:23 PM
