Post by: Mario on May 19, 2005, 08:27:22 PM
This idea Nintendo has for the Revolution controller... it intrigues me to no end.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 19, 2005, 08:31:19 PM
That's true. I just assumed that Nintendo was being insane and paranoid. Realistically if the Rev's big secret is that it comes with a mouse then Sony could easily copy it and it would be a really great idea even if it's not that creative. If I was Nintendo that's what MY secret would be.
Post by: lastexit on May 19, 2005, 08:46:40 PM
What many people don't realize is that there is far more going on business-wise behind the scenes affecting the timing of such things than is apparent. Once Sony and MS seal deals, ship development kits and most importantly, make public promises, show their console, etc, it's locked-in. If Nintendo wants to show off something real neat tomorrow it's a good time to do so because when Sony or MS try and copy it EVERYONE WILL KNOW. They will then be able to market from the point of view that you can get the REAL THING or a cheap knockoff thrown together at the last minute by Sony or MS.
Think about it, if Sony and MS had anything else really exciting it would've been shown during E3.
Post by: mantidor on May 19, 2005, 08:53:01 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 19, 2005, 08:55:57 PM
Yeah but it didn't COME with a mouse. Think of the possibilities. They could offer near perfect control for PC style games and thus steal one of Microsoft's key selling points. Imagine Nintendo's take on real time strategy games or Sim City style games. Plus it allows them much of the same flexibility of the DS touchscreen.
Post by: Arbok on May 19, 2005, 09:06:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: lastexit
If Nintendo wants to show off something real neat tomorrow it's a good time to do so because when Sony or MS try and copy it EVERYONE WILL KNOW. They will then be able to market from the point of view that you can get the REAL THING or a cheap knockoff thrown together at the last minute by Sony or MS.
That's really bad logic right there, unless you actually assume that every gamer tunes in to stuff like E3 and what not, beacuse I can assure you only a small % actually do. Also, think about that, let's say Sony does steal it and releases their console before Nintendo's Revolution. The average gamer is going to think that Nintendo copied Sony if that were to happen.
Post by: DiscoStu on May 19, 2005, 10:31:58 PM
My ideas:
!) The control uses a touch screen of some sort, like the DS. Obviously N has been experimenting with such tech. The DS didn't come out of nowhere, there have to be guys working on the touch screen tech at N (I forget the division that came up with the concept but Iwata I believe worked closely with that division before the promotion). My major problem with a touch screen displaying the controls negates the idea of pressing a button, that tactile knowledge of ones finger running over a button. With any touch screen type system one will always have to look at it to know they are pressing the right button until they become an expert with the controls; this alienates the casual user. So could there be some sort of system that allows the developer to aromatically recognize an area pressed on the touch screen but also makes that area an impression on the touchscreen and allows th developer to determine the amount of depression by the player
2) The controllers are actually also portable systems. With N's knowledge of small screens could the Rev's controllers that allow you to walk away from the system and still be playing a game. So completely uniting the portable market with the console market.
(btw controller is an interesting word to dissect and apply to videogames, try it at your next social gathering especially if there's a bunch of engineers around)
Post by: ThePerm on May 19, 2005, 10:50:27 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 19, 2005, 10:51:58 PM
How many people know or care that rumble started with the N64?
Post by: ruby_onix on May 19, 2005, 11:04:07 PM
Quote
Let's face it, Sony can't change the whole design of their controller and change the games in development to utilise it by it now, it's too late.
Sony changed their PSone controller to copy Nintendo's innovations. After it was out on the market for a year. Twice.
Quote
They will then be able to market from the point of view that you can get the REAL THING or a cheap knockoff thrown together at the last minute by Sony or MS.
When Sony copied the Rumble Pak, they took a moment to refine the idea, putting two motors in instead of one. (Actually, they didn't. But it looked like they did.) Nobody cared that Nintendo was "first". They just knew they could get better quality by going with Sony.
Post by: ezaphlix on May 19, 2005, 11:43:22 PM
Post by: Dryden on May 19, 2005, 11:52:15 PM
1. D-Pad (now industry standard)
2. Start/Select buttons (now industry standard)
3. Shoulder L/R buttons (now industry standard)
4. Analog Stick (now industry standard)
5. Rumble feature (now industry standard)
6. Good Wireless (now industry standard)
7. ???? (soon to be industry standard)
Yeah, maybe they should keep it under wraps for a while.
Post by: RABicle on May 19, 2005, 11:54:51 PM
At a bare minumun the controller must include but not nessisarily be limited to:
6 face buttons
1 D pad
2 shoulder buttons
1 trigger
1 thumbstick
1 select button
1 start button
1 memory card slot.
So already it's more complex than the N64 pad. Thinking of the N64 pad, it's more than possible that Nintendo could opt for a 'three legged' style controller again. Other features that we can assume it will feature include a second thumbstick and a second trigger, to add more imput and make the system more port friendly. So now, with all this there still has to be a revolutionary part to it.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 20, 2005, 12:05:30 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/ne5xy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/ne5.jpg
Why would they package in a mouse? It has two USB ports which opens the door for you to use any kind of controller setup you can mod up. But who is to say Nintendo doesn't create the ultimate gaming mouse? A mouse with traditonal pad functions would be leaps ahead of what Sony and MS are offering. Also one in each hand. No keyboards. There are a lot of peripherals for PC controls. Flight sticks, trackballs, gyration, and haptics. What is important here is not just that Nintendo has a big idea. What is important is that Nintendo is the one leading the pack on decisions. If Nintendo put a glowing vibrating falice on the front of the console so would Sony and MS just to make sure they are standardized. If Nintendo does dual flight sticks, they will try to copy that directly. If Nintendo does gyration they will try there best to copy that. If Nintendo just slaps a touch screen on they'll make it optional. If Nintendo puts a trackball on their controller so will Sony and MS (but not until Nintendo does). You see where I am going with this? MS and Sony are not going to do anything new until Nintendo says a certain technology is the best idea. Nintendo does not have some secret technology. It is just they are the only ones who can think on their own. They're the only ones with the forsite and imagination to see the potential in these technologies. You ever wonder why Sony, MS, or Sega didn't try to compete with Nintendo's analog revolution with the N64 by making their controllers for the PS2, Xbox, and Dreamcast analog flight sticks or include simple functions like a scroll wheel at least to have something unique about their controllers? The best idea they could come up with was to have the joysticks click. I think Nintendo can do this. Even if it is as simple as having a gyro in their controller, that gyro would allow players to control the game through tilting and turning the controller (no mice can do that, especially in the air) while still using dual analog control.
I personally think the feeling rumor will be the one that comes back to haunt us. Haptics can be implemented into any number of things. What if the analog sticks have force feedback? What about the triggers? There are ways to use force feedback without teathering a gamer to a desk or table. You could hold a neutral prong/handle in one hand stabalizing the device and in the other hand you control the haptic arm attatched to another prong/handle.
Post by: Michael8983 on May 20, 2005, 02:10:04 AM
Nintendo has already been playing around with it for years with Kirby's Tilt and Tumble, that strange Gamecube tech-demo that has appeared at a few shows, and now Warioware Twisted and the new Yoshi game.
It would also be perfect for Metroid Prime 3 which was strangely emphasized at the conference and would certainly allow for the new types of gameplay and genre Nintendo has been hinting at. Most importantly it's something that could seamlessly be added to a somewhat standard looking controller capable of playing old-style games.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 20, 2005, 05:23:54 AM
I still wonder about Gryoscopic controls. In some aspects it offers great freedom, but it also offers problems, like what happens if your friend pushes you because you just beat him. Now your character falls off a cliff. OOPS.
I seriously think that whatever it is. The competition WON'T copy it until they know it is a good idea and that the public has embraced it. Then they will rush to make a similar product.
The issue for Nintendo showing anything this year is that it at least allows the competition to evaluate what Nintendo is doing and try to judge if the public will like the new controllers. If Nintendo had demos, then basically E3 would have been market research for the competition by reading what the journalists wrote. A year is a long enough time for Sony, and even this late in the game Microsoft to come up with a new controller.
However, right now the mystery means Sony and Microsoft would have to invest money in market guesses as to what Nintendo is actually doing. They probably don't feel it is worth the expenses. Specially when they can just see what Nintendo has in a year and copy it if its good.
But, that gives Nintendo at least a year's time of innovation. At least a year's jump in designing games for the idea. And that means Nintendo's second generation games with the controller will be out when Sony's and Microsoft's First generation games are.
Post by: couchmonkey on May 20, 2005, 06:02:49 AM
As for other companies copying Nintendo, I agree that it's a concern, but I hope Nintendo delivers something worthy of hiding, as opposed to some of the games it released this generation.
Post by: Artimus on May 20, 2005, 06:13:00 AM
Post by: jasonditz on May 20, 2005, 06:29:59 AM
Surely there's no simple way to play Duck Hunt with the new controller. Or maybe you can aim with the gyroscope? Then it becomes like some kind of weird, retro FPS?
Post by: Arbok on May 20, 2005, 06:47:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
Surely there's no simple way to play Duck Hunt with the new controller. Or maybe you can aim with the gyroscope? Then it becomes like some kind of weird, retro FPS?
Unless Nintendo releases a light gun for the system to play Duck Hunt and all those Super Scope games, hell, I wouldn't mind... My Super Scope got trashed anyway (RIP), and it's a area that Nintendo hasn't done much in.
Post by: slingshot on May 20, 2005, 06:53:07 AM
My money is still on gyros. NOT just for some easy control features- but I really think that NINTY has found a way to give US feedback through the gyros. Like you r controller feeling bouyant on the water in WAVE RACE. OR feeling the moguls under your skis in a ski race game- or when you play a skateboard game you feel the controller dip down and then rise up (breif weightlessness, and then another plummet down) We are not just talking about tilting the controller around to emulate the analog stick- this is going to be really big. After all- we have heard many times that playing is key here. My faith is in the big N. Simplification has to come from gyros, but also the type of feedback that I mentioned is possible- I know they have done it.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2005, 07:28:42 AM
The DS can't play N64 games though.
"Cube controllers also have all additoinal buttons that ALL preceding controllers had- plus extras."
No they don't. Again you can't play N64 games with a Cube pad. You can play some of them but not all. The N64 has six face buttons but the Cube only has four.
I think people are coming in inane conclusions about the Cube controller ports. Do you know why Nintendo added those? Because it was a nice thing to do. The Cube ports ensure 100% backwards compatibility. If they didn't put them on there you couldn't play Donkey Konga or Four Swords Adventures. It's called being user-friendly and being on the ball. It's not evidence that the Rev controller is a worthless piece of crap that can't play traditional games.
I think the controller itself is normal and the innovative thing is either just added on to existing controller design or is something extra that's included like how the NES came with a light gun.
Post by: Artimus on May 20, 2005, 08:16:03 AM
Post by: OptimusPrime on May 20, 2005, 08:23:59 AM
Post by: Pale on May 20, 2005, 08:40:09 AM
1. people can use it for basic character control. This has been done before and isn't really that intuitive, so I don't think it will be it.
2. You could use it in place of the c-stick in many instances. For example, looking in a game like Metroid prime. You control with the stick, but the way you tilt the controller decides where you are looking. I think this could be a cool bonus feature.
3. The key feature (much like the mouse idea) is you use as you would a touch screen. I offer this link as an example. http://www.gyration.com/ultragt.htm Using a system like that, people could play games like RTS with a really inuitive feel. Make the controller break in half (with the gyration part coming off) and it could make for really comfortable, laid back, one handed gaming. Perfect for turn based rpgs and strategy games, as well puzzlers and 'non-games' that will help pull in the non gamer.
If Sony or MS hear that Nintendo is putting a gyroscope into their controllers, they could throw one in really quickly.... Even if it isn't as sophisticated a plan as Nintendo's, it would still take the uniquness away from Nintendo's console.
How much you want to bet I (and the many others with a similar idea) am right.
Post by: Luffy1Piece on May 20, 2005, 12:39:29 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Luffy1Piece/nrvcont.png
Post by: Rellik on May 20, 2005, 01:20:07 PM
I doubt that the controller will into separate parts. It's probably possible, but more trouble than it's worth. Would they put separate wireless ports on each section? Wouldn't that suck if you lost half of it? Isn't that a huge complication when they're aiming for simplicity?
Anyway, even if Nintendo's controller doesn't utilize an internal gyroscope for the purposes of tactile control and force feedback, I hope this kind of controller will be developed someday. The tactile control available with a gyroscope is much more advanced and precise than that available with a Tilt 'n Tumble-type tilt sensor; even just one embedded gyroscope would be able to cause smooth resistance to tilt, and another configuration could conceivably do all sorts of things with it.
If this isn't the wave of the future, I don't know what is. It's kind of an *OF COURSE* that the controller should be able to convey tactile information back to the player - and Rumble is only the very first tiny step towards that.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2005, 01:42:17 PM
Can anyone explain to me why moving my arms around (and getting fatigued as a result) to swing a sword is more intuitive than pushing a button to swing a sword? With any sort of motion control I have to be precise. A movement that to me makes sense might not work because the developer thought differently. That doesn't happen with buttons. I push the button and it works. The developer doesn't have to take into account that I move goofy compared to the rest of the world.
It's like typing. A lot of people say that using a microphone and dictating what you want to write is more intuitive. It's not. You have to pronounce everything perfectly and you don't have as much freedom to change what you want to write in the middle of sentence. The program has to guess whether you want "there", "their" or "they're" depending on the context. There's no error with pushing keys. I type "t-h-e-r-e" I don't get "their". It's the same with motion control. I push "A" to do a horizontal swing and I push "B" to do a vertical swing. I don't have to worry about waving my hand in a vertical fashion and having the program interpret it as horizontal.
The precision of pushing buttons crushes motion control like a grape. With most games these days if I do the wrong thing it's because I screwed up. You throw motion control in and now I can lose because the game screwed up. I think "jab", I "jab" with my hand, the game throws an uppercut because I was a millimetre off. LAME.
I agree though that the possibilities for force feedback and very nice.
Post by: wandering on May 20, 2005, 02:01:35 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2005, 02:05:41 PM
The problem with that approach is that I'll suck at the game if I'm a lousy swordsman. Which I am since I'm not a warrior and this isn't the Hyborean Age. That kind of thing is cool but it's not better or more intuitive to button pushing. It's just different.
Post by: jasonditz on May 20, 2005, 02:15:08 PM
I demand in the name of decency that somebody make a first person Star Wars game (maybe using the Jedi Academy engine) in which you can fight online lightsaber duels in this manner
Post by: Rellik on May 20, 2005, 02:15:57 PM
That kind of control would be unbelievably unintuitive! Not what I'm invisioning.
Gyroscopic control detects tilt. In that sense, it's like a Tilt'n'Tumble. It's just much more advanced, precise, and can be used in different configurations for more dimensions of control.
You still hit the button to swing your sword. The gyroscopic control would more likely be used to control movement or camera.
I think you can invision how the control could act as a steering wheel or joystick with gyroscopes, so let me pose this: image you're playing Zelda. To walk forward, instead of using an analog stick (which we're all used to but non-gamers and newly acquired gamers have a hard time picking up) you just tilt the controller slightly away from you. Not anything drastic - you feel the controller push back at you as you move it forward. If there's a wall, the feedback will be harder. You want to turn, so you tilt the left or right side slightly downard - it's simple, intuitive, like riding a bike.
I guess I should probably be more clear about what a gyroscope is. A gyroscope is a device that utilizes the laws of classical mechanics to stay stable. It spins around, and the faster it spins, the more it resists to you tilting it. If you do tilt it, it is sensable in the change in speed of the gyroscope. Gyroscopes can be used in different configurations (it could be just one, or it could be one on the left and one on the right, it could be 4, I'm no expert, so I don't know which one would be optimal) to have the capability to register various types of motion and to be able to exert certain types of feedback.
So there you have it, Ian Sane. It's more like riding a bike than swinging a sword - subtle movements control motion on-screen, and action on-screen controls the force the gyroscope exerts on the controller which is the force the controller exerts on your hands. You must have seen small children try to tilt the controller to get the character to move, twisting it, turning it - that's the way we tend to think. Analog sticks are great, if you're used to them - but gyroscopic control is more accessable to non-gamers while being a possibly more functional variety of control and definitely more capable of adding another dimension to the gamer's experience.
Post by: wandering on May 20, 2005, 02:50:04 PM
Well...I sort of agree with you that getting too realistic or too physical might be a bad idea. But simulating experiences you wouldn't normally experience...that's part of the fun of videogames. I'm not a general but I enjoy RTSs. I'm not a pilot but I enjoy arcade flight sims. I'm horrible at multi-tasking but I enjoy Pikmin. Actually, I think I learn new skills from videogames all the time. You just need to find a good balance between realism and fun.
There's a game at disneyquest where you swing a stick around and, inside your vr helmet, your lightsaberalike moves exactly as you move your hand. But to kill enemies all you have to do is hit them...you don't have to know anything about sword fighting. Maybe not any more intuitve than pushing a button, but certainly a lot more fun.
And I think a gyro COULD make certain things more intuitve. If someone wanted to make a game revolving around realistic sword fighting, swinging a gyro might be more intuitve than learning button combinations. What you're saying is that putting realistic sword fighting in a game in the first place might make the game less intuitve , which I'd agree with. But, if a designer wanted a game where you can do more complex things, like controlling a sword, piloting a plane, commanding an army, or looking around in first person mode, a gyro might make those things easier.
[edit]
"You still hit the button to swing your sword. The gyroscopic control would more likely be used to control movement or camera."
I'm still not entirely convinced that titlting would be better for movement than an analog stick (unless you're playing super monkey ball or something). I guess if the feedback is good enough, it would work. Though I doubt it would be as precise.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 20, 2005, 05:30:13 PM
Blocking could be done in real time or programmed for a button or to be automatic. It all depends on how good you are yet.
What all this brings to us is a real revolution. It is like the difference between drawing with your hand planted on the canvas and painting with a long caligraphy brush with your entire arm and body at a distance from the canvas. Sword fighting and painting have a lot in common.
As far as how a gyro works, it is very simple. It is like how if they do a special effect in a movie. If someone is being filmed in front of a blue screen in a space ship the ship will have three guys controlling it. Each guy would be controlling a seperate aspect of the special effect. One guy would control the tilting left to right. One guy would control the tilting forward and backwards. And one guy would control the turning left to right. The gyro allows for you to control all three of those with one hand and you can do it in 3D space inside a virtual world. With a tilt sensor you are only able to tilt it. A gyro is spinning so it can be used like a floating trackball inside the controller that you never have to manuver with your thumb. A trackball is okay to use if you are using it like a mouse rolling it alone up, down, left, and right; but a trackball is hard to spin with your thumb. A gyro is already spinning and delivers resistance.
What really matters though is how they use it. One gyro in one two handed controller, two gyros in a one handed controller that can seperate into two, a single gyro in a vr helmet, gyros used with haptics, muliple gyros inside each handle of the controller, etc. Sony and MS probably know what technology Nintendo is going to use, but they don't know how they will use it and neither do most developers.
"Maybe this would cheer some people up. In the Gamespot interview with Reggie, Reggie stated that the Rev controller is so designed you can perfectly play NES, SNES, N64 and Cube games with it. So it is capable of controlling traditional gamedesign" I was going to bring that up. It can't be that hard to put traditional button functions onto the REV controller. But I am mainly concerned about whether or not I will also be able to use the revolutionary aspect to control these old games a bit more abstractly. That would be called replay value.
Post by: MarioAllStar on May 20, 2005, 06:21:04 PM
If Nintendo takes the route of gyroscopes, I hope it is only for tilting. To use Ian's example, I don't want to get tired when I'm playing Zelda from swinging my arm the enire time. The only way I could see it being beneficial to the game experience is to control the camera, as some one has pointed out.
Also, I'm really glad it's not so radical that it can't play traditional games.
Post by: jasonditz on May 20, 2005, 06:28:10 PM
Obviously for a single player mode such a game needs to start very easy and have mutliple difficulty settings so its not totally offputting to someone that sucks at it.
Post by: nickmitch on May 20, 2005, 07:20:38 PM
Post by: Pale on May 20, 2005, 07:28:25 PM
Post by: trip1eX on May 20, 2005, 07:32:11 PM
Here's my theory...
The new Revolution controller and Nintendo's way-back backwards compatibility next gen are no coincidence.
You will be able to play the old games a new way!!!
Post by: RABicle on May 20, 2005, 07:34:01 PM
QuoteTo all the people who are thinking along this route, don't you realise that a gyroscope can't pick up movements along a hozrizontal (or vertical for that amtter) plane? The gyro has to be tilted.
If Nintendo takes the route of gyroscopes, I hope it is only for tilting. To use Ian's example, I don't want to get tired when I'm playing Zelda from swinging my arm the enire time. The only way I could see it being beneficial to the game experience is to control the camera, as some one has pointed out.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 20, 2005, 08:08:28 PM
Though gyros may be able to do the input work of a haptic arm all inside the controller they cannot create the same surgicaly precise force feedback that haptics can.
Post by: jasonditz on May 20, 2005, 08:14:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RABicleQuoteTo all the people who are thinking along this route, don't you realise that a gyroscope can't pick up movements along a hozrizontal (or vertical for that amtter) plane? The gyro has to be tilted.
If Nintendo takes the route of gyroscopes, I hope it is only for tilting. To use Ian's example, I don't want to get tired when I'm playing Zelda from swinging my arm the enire time. The only way I could see it being beneficial to the game experience is to control the camera, as some one has pointed out.
And most of the moves required for a decent sword-fighting sim are in the wrist, thus tilt would be what it needs to be able to read.
But if Nintendo did have an idea that required being able to read vertical motion for example, there are plenty of ways to accomplish this.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 20, 2005, 08:56:22 PM
Post by: Rellik on May 20, 2005, 09:48:40 PM
I would be extremely skeptical of this kind of controller being reasonable. It's an intriguing idea for the future, like flying cars and such, but the fact remains that the Revolution is supposed to be MORE accessable to people. An object that people can pick up and drive like a steering wheel or a bike is intuitive - a sleeve you have to configure and fit on and then dance around wildly is a fun idea but ultimately much less accessable.
The gyroscopic-tilt system should be more accurate than the analog joystick type system that we use today. Of course, both will be available - it would be stupid to eliminate the analog stick completely from the controller. Remember, gyroscope is not the same as Tilt'n'Tumble style - it's far more accurate and "solid" feeling, since it has (variable) resistance to change.
Post by: pudu on May 21, 2005, 12:06:54 AM
“…we have not unveiled our controller…once that comes out it’s really going to help frame in total how we’re driving the innovative story.”
“We announced the ability to download and play the best NES games, SNES games, N64 games, in addition to Revolution games and Gamecube games. If you put those controllers all lined up together they’re all very different. So think about what kind of device is going to allow you to play all those different types of games?”
-Quote taken from G4Tv’s E3 2005 Reggie Fils-Aime Interview I got from IGN (link)
What is strange to me is why they would include cube controller ports if it can do a good job of controlling cube games supposedly. One guess is it has a D pad and buttons to sufficiently control NES and SNES games but it doesn't have an analogue stick in favor of some other form of control mechanism. This would be why they are offering the option of using gamecube controllers so you could use their analogue sticks.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 21, 2005, 02:36:21 AM
Basically the same mechanic I used earlier with the trackball button surrounded by a wheel with three flat round rotatable disk buttons. Also a floating analog stick to the side. Not pictured, the trigger wheels, middle finger z buttons, optional cord jack, or internal gyros.
Now though I made half the controller a haptic flight stick which could be detached and each handle could be used specifically for it's internal gyro.
Post by: anubis6789 on May 21, 2005, 04:01:47 AM
I am sure we have all ran into the problem of what happens when an analog sticks is pushed in a direction upon start up of the system, if you don't properly calibrate a light gun, or properly calibrate the DS screen. How will the gyro device find its center? Will it self center or will the player decide what center is?
Which brings up another problem, comfort. Try holding a controller and twisting it around, front back,side to side, and see how easy or hard it is to hold it in that position, or press buttons in that position. Comfort really does not become a problem until you reach your wrist's extremes, but what if a game called for you to do so? What if the center, if decided for you, is unintuitive and unnatrual in feeling to the player?
This is all assumeing that there is a gyro in the REV's controller. It also does not take into account the fact that Nintendo is usually very good at picking out these kind of bugs and making a new control system intuitive. I am just playing around with the idea in my head and these were somethings that came to mind.
*EDIT: added my question about the comfort of the center.*
Post by: jasonditz on May 21, 2005, 07:34:23 AM
Actually though as I think more about it, you could probably do just as efficient a sword-fighting sim with a collapsable plastic sword and something like an updated version of the old Broderbund U-force
Post by: Rellik on May 21, 2005, 09:55:44 AM
I'd say leave it to Nintendo to make the controller comfortable and come up with a good calibration scheme - that's not our job!I think we can assume most of the smaller issues can be dealt with via good design and good planning - IF Nintendo is actually going for a gyroscopic controller. Since we don't know, I don't see any reason to speculate beyond general application and applicability.
Although I will say this: Nintendo has experience with comfort and calibration in designing their Tilt'n'Tumble and Twisted systems, so I don't think it would be an issue they couldn't get around.
Ok, I said I wouldn't speculate, but I am. The controller could use a gravity sensor (a tiny hanging pendulum) to know which way "down" is, and calibrate the gyroscope off of that absolute reference [assumably the Revolution is not meant to be played in outer space...]
Post by: nemo_83 on May 21, 2005, 02:50:49 PM
Iwata then reiterated Nintendo's position on making games simpler and more appealing to a wider audience. "Right now, game consoles are important for the game fan, but for the rest of the family, it's just a piece of nuisance that's loud and eats up electricity... We want to create games for people who haven't played games but are curious about them."
He also stated that the Game Boy Micro would be an addition to the Game Boy Advanced, not a replacement and that the pricing for the Revolution's download game service had yet to be decided. But said that Nintendo could charge per game, sell pre-paid cards in stores or possibly give games away for promotions.
Source: Reuters
has anyone posted this?
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 21, 2005, 03:21:20 PM
One thing concerns me though....There's going to be a TON of games up for download, but only a limited space to store them. Now, I can't see myself buying enough games to fill up the internal memory and an SD card, especially since I'd be geting mostly NES and SNES games, but what if I had to delete a game to make room for another one? I should be able to download that game again for free if I wanted to play it again. I can't think of a non-crackable way to do this, but then again, I'm not Nintendo
Post by: Caliban on May 21, 2005, 03:46:22 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 21, 2005, 03:50:13 PM
what? honestly...most game systems arent in living rooms..their in individual bedrooms which also serve as multimedia centers for the gamer
http://theperm.tetrametrics.com/Images/GameRooms/Patsroom/
http://theperm.tetrametrics.com/Images/GameRooms/AlexOldRoom/
http://theperm.tetrametrics.com/Images/GameRooms/AlexsCats/
Post by: Grant10k on May 21, 2005, 04:05:55 PM
Quote
what? honestly...most game systems arent in living rooms..their in individual bedrooms which also serve as multimedia centers for the gamer
What? Source? I don't think that's true at all. Any family with say...two brothers who both play video games will rarly put a console in a bedroom, but Mom, Pop, And Sister still think it's another TV that becomes disabled for a few hours at a time.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 21, 2005, 04:14:34 PM
Post by: Pale on May 21, 2005, 05:00:59 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on May 21, 2005, 05:40:20 PM
Post by: Artimus on May 21, 2005, 06:21:11 PM
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on May 21, 2005, 06:42:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaleZer0
As far as the filling up your space issue, I do worry about that. I also worry that breaking your SD card can cost you so much money. I hope to god Nintendo puts these worries to rest and makes it so your Nintendo account remembers what games you bought. That way you can erase one knowing you can redownload it for free. That would be uber-nice.
But then how would Nintendo know the difference between erasing a game, and moving it your friends SD card so he can have it? I figure they will prevent copying, im just saying i doubt they'd give you unlimited amounts of downloads once you buy it.
Post by: jasonditz on May 21, 2005, 10:11:43 PM
OTOH, it wouldn't be too hard to give each system a unique identified and keep the ROMs from playing on a system other than the one it was purchased for. But that might be a bit too heavy handed for nintendo's taste.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 22, 2005, 12:15:27 AM
Post by: Pale on May 22, 2005, 05:40:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ib2kool4u912Quote
Originally posted by: PaleZer0
As far as the filling up your space issue, I do worry about that. I also worry that breaking your SD card can cost you so much money. I hope to god Nintendo puts these worries to rest and makes it so your Nintendo account remembers what games you bought. That way you can erase one knowing you can redownload it for free. That would be uber-nice.
But then how would Nintendo know the difference between erasing a game, and moving it your friends SD card so he can have it? I figure they will prevent copying, im just saying i doubt they'd give you unlimited amounts of downloads once you buy it.
By requiring a login to authenticate yourself before you play the games.
Or they could just make every download free...then there wouldn't be an issue.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on May 22, 2005, 07:19:32 AM
Post by: wandering on May 22, 2005, 02:12:16 PM
Here's a controller layout that would, I think, allow you to play most games from the NES to the gamecube.
It has 6 face buttons (a button, b button, and c buttons), start button, thumb stick, c stick, and d-pad. 2 of the four c buttons double as the x and y buttons.
Not shown: 4 trigger buttons for your index and middle fingers.
Thoughts?
Post by: Epitaph on May 22, 2005, 07:37:34 PM
My other guesses
its either a touch pad much like on the apple ipod, either covering a entire surface or just a small surface
A combination gyroscopic orb with touch sensitive cover. So you move the ball around and your hands over it tap it and such to operate the games.
Combination gyroscopic, eyetoy, microphone and such every possible control people knew about.
or a controller with fully customisable buttons that pop out depending on the game. Basically it utilises a number of pins much like on those toys I guess you can call em that can take the inprint of your hand or face or whatever you place in them. So these pins could potrude to the hight and dimensions the developer wants creating a whole new controller experiance.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 22, 2005, 08:00:42 PM
It would become the perfect controller.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 23, 2005, 01:03:46 PM
This only makes sense if you were controlling something that could roll. Otherwise it's completely illogical. Plus it would so impresise and awkward it's not even funny. Ever play that labyrinth game where you have to tilt the board to get the ball to the exit without it falling in the holes? You're suggesting THAT as the ideal control scheme. It's not. It's ridiculously awkward. I've never met anyone who can beat that game and realistically you would have to to be able to amount to anything in a game where you have to tilt just to move.
I figure if you can't control games as they are you're either a complete idiot or you've just decided games aren't for you and don't feel like putting in the effort. My Dad doesn't play games but he can drive a car and use a PC. Both of those things require a knowledge of using abstract buttons and such so gaming is really no different. If you can use a PC, drive a car, play the piano, use a fishing rod, use a microwave, use a camera etc. you can control videogames provided you put in a little effort and by that I mean like a few hours or so.
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on May 23, 2005, 05:17:17 PM
EDIT: I think the only reason they invested in gyroscopics is because of the gyroscopic GBA carts.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on May 24, 2005, 12:13:10 AM
Yeah, and pushing an analog stick makes a WHOLE lot of sense to someone who hasn't played a game before. If you think it does, then I retort that people are just as familiar with tilting as pushing buttons and levers: who hasn't poured something in their lifetime? You sound unwilling to try a new interface, and rag on anyone unable to play games "as God meant it." Seriously, you remind me of an old programmer uninterested in even considering working with O-O in spite of its success (granted, tilt technology is hardly standard right now).
If Nintendo is able to create a "lock" feedback mechanism for the center of gyration/tilting like they have for analog sticks, the problem is solved in my book. I know I have trouble telling if I am pushing directly forward on an analog stick, so I hardly consider the analog stick to be the most precise input device possible. I understand your concerns, especially over ridiculous arm motions, but tilting seems more intuitive to me for sublte camera control than flicking the C-stick and for F-Zero machine tilt than shoulder buttons.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 24, 2005, 07:35:24 AM
It's a little joystick. Joysticks have been in videogames forever. Plus joysticks are used for machines and those crane games and stuff. They're reasonably common in the real world. Literally nothing aside from a few marble games use tilting for controls. Plus with an analog stick if I want to stop moving I let go of the stick. There's a clear frame of reference for not moving. With any sort of motion control there is no obvious frame of reference. How do I stop moving? Do I level the controller back? What if I overcompensate and tilt too much in the opposite direction?
Post by: Pale on May 24, 2005, 09:19:33 AM
Nintendo should stick with the same exact controller....
Now please argue against that too.
Post by: vudu on May 24, 2005, 09:31:20 AM
QuoteHow about a flight simulator? Such as Pilot Wings?
Literally nothing aside from a few marble games use tilting for controls.
Post by: OptimusPrime on May 24, 2005, 10:46:48 AM
And lets not forget...aiming in FPS'en by tilting... can it be more accurate and faster? In third person shooters you can have perfect dual gun aiming if you have those plit apart controllers.
Post by: Rellik on May 24, 2005, 01:16:25 PM
The key to the usability of the gyroscopic motion control is the self-stabilization/clever use of variable resistance to movement. If it just tilts, THEN it's like the game with the marble and the labyrinth. But the resistance to movement makes it entirely different. It basically stays all but directly upright, and senses when you apply a torque. It would basically FEEL like a really nice joystick with force feedback, except you hold it in your hands, it can be used as a labyrinth-marble-style controller when desired (all the game has to do is lower the resistance to movement), and you have your hands on all the buttons of the normal controller, etc.
I don't guarantee that this sort of setup is even possible (although someone else on the boards may know) - I just argue that it would be an EXTREMELY intuitive and EXTREMELY accessable form of control, if you really picture it and give that mental image a chance.
Post by: Epitaph on May 24, 2005, 01:40:36 PM
Post by: Cap on May 24, 2005, 04:10:18 PM
this looks interesting.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 24, 2005, 04:16:26 PM
To be honest, before you mentioned it, I never thought gyroscropes could completely illimate joysticks. Like Ian, I didn't think they could work as flawlessly as joysticks do. However, with resistance involved, it would be exactly like twisting a door handle.
That would be extremely accessible to people; even more so than a joystick. Still....illimating joysticks is a very bad idea. I'm sure Nintendo knows that.
And one more thing...Ian....you mentioned in another thread how you hate gyration, and the possibilities surrounding it. I admit...sword-swinging as Link would suck ass. I would never forgive Nintendo for that because that's not what Zelda is about.
I wouldn't mind, however, if they used it in another game. It doesn't neccessarily have to be an adventure. A stand-alone would be just fine....I actually prefer it.
That's what Gyration is about. Introducing ideas, but not forcing them. As long as they don't dominate games controls where joysticks would be better, I'm fine with it. Even if they do, how hard would it be to come up with an alternate control scheme without gyration? And don't even say that the controllers might not have joysticks to begin with, because Reggie already mentioned it will play every generation thus far.
It doesn't constrict any pre-existing game, but instead, enhancing them while making completely new games that can't be recreated. TPS's are popular, but how insanely popular would a TPS be with gyration controls. Think Max Payne except you directly control his arms.
Sports games would be changed forever. How many sports require arm movements? Exactly.....They could finally recreate a bowling game, and not to mention a more realistic boxing and archery game. It would make these games much more accesible.
Even puzzle sports games, that don't require specific arm/wrist movement (PunchOut!), could be made more accessible. A joystick would do fine, but what about Gyration Punch Out? People who suck at boxing could have fun because of its focus on timing and not technique. So instead of making you emulate punches, you could just move your wrist a few inches forward; unlike Gyration Boxing which you'd have to punch exactly how you'd want to punch.
Anyway, imagine pressing the "super punch" button that Super Punch Out introduced. Only this time, instead of just holding the button down as you wait for Little Mac to punch; you hold it down and see a meter at the bottom slowly charge as you hold the button. If you let go, it dissapears. You must punch as you hold the button to use what has charged, but the problem is, if the meter reaches the top, it starts over at the bottom. So for you to use the real super punch, you'll have to time your physical punch perfectly.
Little things like that could add more interactivity to pre-existing games. Metriod is the perfect example. Actually....come to think of it....what type of game wouldn't be able to use it in some way?
The only one I can think of is Fighting games like Street Fighter or Smash Bros.
Post by: IceCold on May 24, 2005, 07:19:31 PM
Ian, don't tell me the first time you used an analogue stick you felt that it was as if everything in your dreams came true, because that's bullsh!t. Analogue sticks aren't even close to being "true" controls. But we adapted. We adapted and now it's second nature to us. However, it took a while for us to truly get used to them. WIth the potential of gyroscopics, you could pick the controller up and just play, with true and intuitive controls. Stop being so damn conservative and recognize the potential of them. It's another thing if you don't think that they can be implemented properly, but at least give them a chance/
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 24, 2005, 07:55:56 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 24, 2005, 09:48:34 PM
If that isn't possible, then say good-bye to the gyroscopic dominating games.
Post by: nolimit19 on May 25, 2005, 09:36:45 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 31, 2005, 07:21:37 PM
Post by: nickmitch on May 31, 2005, 07:51:06 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on June 04, 2005, 09:59:59 AM
or I'd like an analog stick that can be depressed into the controller (akin to the ps2 and xbox clicks).. but make it analog. I really dont know why that sounds cool, but damn i want one
Post by: Ian Sane on June 07, 2005, 02:44:54 PM
I think it's kind of a bummer that it's not done yet because it suggests they don't really have a grand plan for their controller. I was kind of hoping that the controller design would be more calculated, like Nintendo has had this brilliant idea for years. What kind of games are they making if they're still tinkering with the controls? It would seem to me that one can't make a game to sell a new controller concept if the concept isn't finalized. Though it could just be that the really unique part of the controller is done and they're just tinkering with minor stuff. I just hope this isn't another connectivity routine where Nintendo has a really good idea in theory but no actual good game concept to go with it.
Though this does suggest a very flexible controller like they thought of everything they could possibly throw on the thing and they're trying to find a good balance by removing and adding stuff. It also suggests that the controller is not that weird or they wouldn't be able to fiddle with it this much (or play N64 games on for that matter). But they've got to hurry up because they can't wait too long or third parties won't have time to make Rev launch games. I assume you have to be pretty specific about controller design when giving out dev kits.
I find it kind of cool that there are currently four Rev related stories on Gamespot's news page right now. Who would have thought that a lack of provided information would result in more news? Perhaps there is something to this "mystery creates hype" thing.
Post by: thepoga on June 07, 2005, 02:56:46 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 07, 2005, 03:13:01 PM
QuoteI don't think this is the case, what with the name "Revolution" and all. Nintendo is putting a lot of money on this, and they're really confident that it will revolutionize gaming. While they did make a big deal about connectivity, they weren't really putting too much stock in it, This is different.
I just hope this isn't another connectivity routine where Nintendo has a really good idea in theory but no actual good game concept to go with it.
For the record, I love connectivity and think it's a great idea. While it could have been fleshed out some more, we got games like Four Swords Adventures and FFCC multiplayer was fun >=o), and I believe it gave Ninty the idea for the DS, so I'd say it was worth it.
Post by: thepoga on June 07, 2005, 03:24:30 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 07, 2005, 04:05:08 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 07, 2005, 07:53:45 PM
Post by: Talon on June 07, 2005, 09:05:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
yup, it was on IGN, the one on one interview with Miyamoto, he said that it was "set in stone", so needless to say I was left with a weird feeling after reading the news at gamespot, specially since I considered Miyamoto and Nintendo for that matter as the epitome of integerity, but now it sounds like they were just lying.
Or maybe Gamespot was bending the truth??
Post by: pudu on June 07, 2005, 10:45:53 PM
I wonder how much this "revolutionary" controller will cost and if this is why they are trying to keep the console on the more "cost effective" end of the spectrum?
Could this be the first conroller released starting at around $50?
If the controller makes the system and is as incredible as we all hope it will be then I say by all means don't hold back due to price! I'd gladly fork over 50 or more if it meant finally taking the next step in conrol and user interface.
Post by: Mario on June 07, 2005, 11:05:05 PM
A new rumor has popped up saying something about a light gun type thing built into the Revolution controller, I don't know or care if it's legit or not, I just heard someone mention it, it reminded me of an idea I had a while ago.
Imagine how cool it would be if we had the power in real life, to point to something, and make it fly across the room. Imagine you're walking through the jungle, clearing obstacles out of the way by pointing at them and brushing them to the side from a distance. Imagine if there was something across the room you couldn't reach, but you just point to it and make it fly over to you.
Now, incorporate that into videogames! Light gun games, I haven't played them all, but I don't think they were previously able to do this, because they only detected the gun when you pull the trigger (i'm just guessing this). Take that a step further, take away the "gun" part, and make it so the screen can detect you dragging the thing across the screen, and it's like you're using a stylus for DS... but from a distance, and you don't need to touch the screen.
Of course, this won't be the only part of the controller. This sensor type thing can perhaps go on the top of the controller where the cord normally sticks out. This would be an advanced way to control the game from the DS, eliminating the hassle of using the stylus and pressing buttons at the time, making it MUCH easier, because you wouldn't need an extra hand for the "stylus", you're already holding it with two hands and all your fingers are free to press buttons. First Person Shooters would be revolutionised, Real Time Strategies would be finally possible on consoles, new gameplay opportunities will arise.
Things that actually point to this being plausable:
- Nintendo stated DS is a hint of things to come
- It's actually possible
- It would be cheap to implement (rather than a billion dollar VR helmet)
- It's an example of an idea prevailing over big budget, something Nintendo has emphasized
- It's simple, just point the thing at the screen
- This allows for both simple games, and large adventure game masterpieces to be created
- How would you play Duck Hunt on Revolution?
Now, what could be on the face of the controller? Will this look like a traditional controller? Will it even have buttons? Will it be custom made, buildable yourself like lego blocks? Will the controller have some kind of feedback in it, that lets you feel things? An advanced form of rumble? Will it emit smells? I don't know, maybe someone else could speculate on that, but I KNOW there's another innovative way to control games, either instead of the one i'm thinking of, or in addition to. Think about it, a Wario Ware title for Revolution using this control system would be almost exactly the same as Wario Ware Touched, so there has to be other ways.
I know I know, gyro this gyro that, but i'm sick of the gyro idea, it's been discussed to death. Gyros + this idea could mean a unique kind of duel analog control, without the analog, but... I don;t know.
Sticking too many things on the controller will make it look too complicated though... so that complicates this speculation somewhat, i'll leave it at this for now. Thoughts?
Post by: MrMojoRising on June 08, 2005, 02:56:03 AM
Post by: Talon on June 08, 2005, 03:38:07 AM
If Nintendo wants to keep the cost of their controllers down I doubt that they would put light gun technology, gyros, wifi, rumble all in the one controller? It doesnt seem to be inline with their business model of having affordable products, but I could be wrong.
Post by: mantidor on June 08, 2005, 07:16:21 AM
Its probably something more like that, since the controller not finalized wasnt mentioned in the IGN version of the news, and knowing Matt, he wouldve point it out inmediately. Maybe it was some mistranslation, and Iwata and Miyamoto were refering to the past when they were making the controller and not the present.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 08, 2005, 07:58:18 AM
Why does this get brought up a lot? Of course the controller will have buttons. It would be a completely worthless hunk of sh!t if it didn't. If the controller had no buttons I guarentee you the console would completely bomb. That's just far too restrictive. The DS has buttons so why not the Rev? Plus the lighgun pointing idea could still work with an otherwise normal controller. Just imagine the Cube controller only for some games you wave it around.
I'm starting to wonder if the controller isn't really the revolutionary part of the console or if it's not really the main part. Nintendo keeps talking about how small the console is, how quiet it is, and how little power it uses. It also only uses wi-fi. Who cares how much power a home console uses and why such a focus on wi-fi when the thing is likely going to sit in someone's living room? I'm thinking that perhaps Nintendo is trying to bridge the gap between the portable and console market by providing one system that works as both. A Gameboy is a lot like a PDA in that it's pocket size but it doesn't use the same software or have the exact same functionality as the home model (console or PC). The Rev however would be like a laptop in that it's not pocket size but is still portable and it doesn't sacrifice the features of a home model. Nintendo could offer an optional screen and battery pack. This would explain why the Rev can attach to PC monitors and why there's such a weird emphasis on power consumption. This would also explain why they're so focused on wi-fi. The Rev is tiny and with a screen attached you could probably quite easily put the whole thing in your lap and play it on an airplane. This would be why Nintendo is releasing another GBA and why the DS focuses on being different instead of just offering the console experience on a portable like the PSP tries to do. The existence of the GB Micro and the DS is puzzling if a new 3D Gameboy comes out. They make perfect sense though if no Gameboy EVER comes out because Nintendo's home console is portable and thus the GBA, DS, and Revolution are three very different portable products. The GBA has scaled down games in exchange for a pocket friendly size while the DS offers innovation and the Rev sacrifices pocket size to provide an authentic console experience on the road.
Post by: jasonditz on June 08, 2005, 08:47:23 AM
Kind of like how you really need buttons for Mario 64 DS, but you don't need them for Pac Pix or warioware
Post by: mantidor on June 08, 2005, 10:10:32 PM
Post by: Dasmos on June 08, 2005, 10:16:03 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2005, 11:13:30 PM
for one, if you have gyros in the controller is there a need for a light gun, especially if you are putting a cursor on the screen.................?
The Rev contoller will have buttons, unless you are calling Reggie
a liar...........(didn't he say something along the lines of "imagine a controller that can play all the games, old and new")
Post by: Dasmos on June 08, 2005, 11:16:31 PM
It's possible believe me
Post by: Nephilim on June 09, 2005, 02:23:44 AM
but thinking about it, the n64 control could be used to play most games on gamecube
I believe the whole backwoulds thing wont be revolutionary
weither it be touch screen, giro, lcd display (I would like) or whatever
Its going to have to be good, or its going to be way over hyped and let people down
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 09, 2005, 05:34:28 AM
Then he went on to explain how it is amazing to think of a single controller that can play games from so many systems so perfectly.
So you won't have to use Gamecube controllers to play old games. The Revolution Controller will do it fine.
Though I do expect to see 3rd party developers releasing classic controllers to play N64,SNES and NES games with that classic feel. Oh course the controllers will be wireless.
Post by: mantidor on June 09, 2005, 07:04:04 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 09, 2005, 07:34:35 AM
Does no one remember that the N64 has six face buttons while the Cube only has four? Even if you use the z-button the Cube is still one button short and DON'T give me that "use the c-stick" crap. That works sort of okay for Zelda but you would not be able to play other N64 titles with that method. The Cube controller would work okay for the NES and SNES though since you could just map select to Z.
Logically Nintendo has to have a controller with at least 6 face buttons, two shoulder buttons, an analog stick, and a d-pad in order to properly play all N64, SNES, and NES games.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 09, 2005, 08:12:15 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 09, 2005, 08:39:38 AM
That to me suggests that the Cube ports were added for the very reason I thought they were added: user friendliness. A lot of people are assuming that the Cube ports justify the existence of same insane wacky Rev controller that is incapable of playing traditional games. If Sony or MS had backwards compatible controller ports on their console would you assume the standard controller would be weird? Stop thinking about Nintendo as the goofball who does everything different for no reason. Nintendo can change and likely has with the Rev. Note how the Rev is ONLINE and how it has DVD playback and it doesn't look like a toy. The Rev so far suggests that Nintendo is learning from some of their mistakes and being user unfriendly and inflexible is one of their mistakes. Having the Cube controller slots on the Rev makes sense because it ensures 100% backwards compatibility. Think of it using normal logic instead of insane E3 2003 Nintendo logic.
I will be very surprised if the Cube controller is required to play the classic games. It would just totally kill the download feature and making such a weird controller would be suicide. Nintendo does some dumb stuff but I don't think they're THAT dumb. I've been quite impressed so far with the little Rev info we know. So far the Rev is nearly perfect. Now there are some pretty negative rumours (like the weak hardware rumour) but of the facts we know Nintendo hasn't done anything really stupid with it yet. It would be very odd for them to be so competent so far and then ruin it all with some weird powerglove controller.
Post by: mantidor on June 09, 2005, 11:52:58 AM
That, coming from you, almost made me cry
Seriously, the d pad in the GC controller suck simply because Nintendo until now has always focused in the future, as opposite to sony and its outdated controller, I think they see the dpad as something outdated for games of today, and I agree, its only useful for fighters which are a niche genre which would be stale if it wasnt for Super Smash Bros, which uses the analog stick perfectly. Thats why they gave the Dpad other uses instead of movement, like the visors in Metroid Prime.
But now that they are bringing the games of NES and SNES we can be confident Nintendo has come up with a solution to play these games flawlessly, remember that for Nintendo gameplay is everything, and they would never release a controller that doesnt work for games, or at least for their own games. Something like the philosophy of sony of making poorly responsive buttons because they wanted a big screen as seen in the psp would never happen with Nintendo.
Post by: vudu on June 09, 2005, 12:04:31 PM
QuoteShhh!! If you make fun of Ian for saying something good about Nintendo, he might go back to being cynical. Just nod and smile...nod and smile....
That, coming from you, almost made me cry
Post by: Mario on June 09, 2005, 06:19:51 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on June 09, 2005, 06:47:28 PM
I am adding this to my complaint list now consisting of no real world broadband internet port, why the **** we need USB ports for k/m when the REV controller is supposed to be the shite, and why in the hell Nintendo is afraid a kid will break a harddrive so they don't want to put one in the REV. Yeah, a kid can break a GPU if he toses the console around enough; should we leave that out too? What about that fragile CPU? I guess analog sticks shouldn't be put on the controllers cause some dumb **** might break one.
As I've been saying recently, Nintendo needs to say f*ck em to the mainstreme. If people can't take care of their system enough so they won't break the harddrive it is likely it won't be long before they scratch their disks or the laser inside the system. This latest excuse from Nintendo on the harddrive sounds more like, "we're just stuborn as f*ck, so lick it, we're cheap and we are using flash memory; and Sony doesn't have either for PS3 so that makes it okay." Just because Sony does or doesn't do something does not make it okay.
Post by: Mario on June 09, 2005, 06:53:17 PM
Quote
The new news about Nintendo not making Cube controllers including bongos, DDR pad, and Mario Party Mic speaks to me that Nintendo is not thinking.
What on earth are you talking about? Who's not thinking again? You're complaining after that doesn't even make SENSE. Nintendo are letting us use the bongos and all that jazz, and why woudl't they? They fit in the GC controller slots.
Quote
I thought the new controller was going to make it so you only had to have one type of controller, this news just defeated the glorry of the new controller.
The obvious news that bongo drums would fit in the GC controller slots made you come to this conclusion? STOP, and THINK.
Post by: nemo_83 on June 09, 2005, 08:24:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
The new news about Nintendo not making Cube controllers including bongos, DDR pad, and Mario Party Mic speaks to me that Nintendo is not thinking.
What on earth are you talking about? Who's not thinking again? You're complaining after that doesn't even make SENSE. Nintendo are letting us use the bongos and all that jazz, and why woudl't they? They fit in the GC controller slots.Quote
I thought the new controller was going to make it so you only had to have one type of controller, this news just defeated the glorry of the new controller.
The obvious news that bongo drums would fit in the GC controller slots made you come to this conclusion? STOP, and THINK.
Reggie said to think about a controller that can control all games between NES and Cube, as well as the revolutionary REV games. I would think it would be possible to use gyros to emulate the bongos for example or even the light gun in Duck Hunt.
Post by: Mario on June 09, 2005, 08:38:57 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 09, 2005, 08:41:24 PM
Guys, the Revolution controller will be a bowl of jelly. It is REVOLUTION.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 09, 2005, 08:41:35 PM
how would the gyros emulate the bongos? I'm not seeing what you were thinking here.
Post by: nemo_83 on June 09, 2005, 09:01:27 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 09, 2005, 09:09:37 PM
lean the controller forward/back?
or clap into the microphone......
make clicking sounds by mouth?
or you have to do it all in a really fast sequence of movements.....
have a heart attack!!
I don't see it working out too well, even with a HUGE bottle of asprin around.
Post by: RABicle on June 09, 2005, 09:20:18 PM
Light gun games are dead anyway, HDTV killed them.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 09, 2005, 09:27:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RABicle
Reginald said that the controller would include the functions of all the previous console's controllers, not that it would be able to play every game.
Light gun games are dead anyway, HDTV killed them.
But gyros could bring them back(with the added help of a cursor on the screen)
Post by: nemo_83 on June 09, 2005, 09:38:25 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 09, 2005, 09:57:05 PM
Post by: MrMojoRising on June 09, 2005, 11:58:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
The Cube controller doesn't stack up to the present controllers let alone next gen controllers with even more buttons. I thought this new controller would be REV so you could play all games with it, that is what Reggie said.
First of all, Nemo, you have officially gone crazy, I reccomend some strong medication to settle yourself down. Second, I don't think that the cube controller has any trouble stacking up to present controllers...do you mean because it has one less button...because the little black on white buttons on the X-box controller aren't even used that much anyways. And the Revolution controller will at best be just that, a revolution...it's not going to cook you dinner or make out with you...it CAN'T DO EVERYTHING!
Post by: Nephilim on June 10, 2005, 04:58:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"the thing is that the gamecube control would easly play n64, snes and nes games"
Does no one remember that the N64 has six face buttons while the Cube only has four? Even if you use the z-button the Cube is still one button short and DON'T give me that "use the c-stick" crap. That works sort of okay for Zelda but you would not be able to play other N64 titles with that method. The Cube controller would work okay for the NES and SNES though since you could just map select to Z.
Logically Nintendo has to have a controller with at least 6 face buttons, two shoulder buttons, an analog stick, and a d-pad in order to properly play all N64, SNES, and NES games.
I didnt think it was that bad, nintendo copyed sony with using the c-stick
tony hawk 1 used the dual shock stick as a face buttons also, way before cube
I believe that the rev emu system with have button layouts anyway, because te buttons in some games might not work, much like megaman collection for cube
Post by: nemo_83 on June 10, 2005, 02:12:27 PM
Sony may know something we don't. You have to go to that link and check out this new video. Once, a while back I was joking about how Nintendo would use touch screens. I threw out an idea that took me a whole of two seconds to come up with. I thought it would be the only way to sell such a controller to me; but I also thought that idea is so out there it isn't possible this generation. Basically I was talking about having clear plastic button mechanics like my scroll wheel ideas for the face of the controller being placed over touchscreens. You'll have to see the video to know how that would work on top of a touch screen.
PS I wasn't able to get this address to link for some odd reason.
Post by: pudu on June 10, 2005, 06:04:44 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2005, 07:06:26 PM
As of right now I don't see any practicle function for any of this tech in its current form, but something that you didn't know, is that this video is from 2001. Which means that we may be seeing something that came from this research in a couple of years time.
Post by: Kairon on June 10, 2005, 09:42:38 PM
Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: nemo_83 on June 10, 2005, 11:38:10 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on June 11, 2005, 12:05:52 AM
Post by: Dasmos on June 11, 2005, 12:13:35 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 30, 2005, 10:49:43 PM
Quote
New Email from the Revolution Engineer
I have recieved a new email from the Revolution Engineer, A.K.A 19D.O.R.Evolution:
19D.O.R.EVOLUTION
----------------------------------------------------------------
this is what i saw in japan:
the controller prototype i've used was a single piece
conventional-shaped one with a rather large plain
rectangular space in the middle of the butterfly design
portion. the rectangle was made of semi-transparent
plastic that at first look resembled polycarbonate but it
has a slightly gummy surface.it had conventional buttons
and stick and a microphone too.just a bad shaped
unfinished prototype assembled only to show us how it
worked.
during the bowling demo the hologram of a little bowling
ball appeared just a two or three centimeter below the
plastic surface and came up a half centimeter above, just
like it was emerging from the water.
then a japanese engineer told me to take aim using the
conventional controls or built-in gyroscopes (two in-line
- left and right side for dual feedback) and to blow on
the ball in order to make it fly into the tv screen. i did
it and the that ball had an acceleration mouvement toward
the big plasma screen, being holographically displayed
above the plain surface until it reached the front edge of
the same, then disappeared from the controller and almost
instantly re-appeared bigger on the tv screen and
...strike.
the acceleration curve of the object was calculated on the
noise level recorded by the microphone a bit like it is on
the nintendo ds, but, i think, in a more sophisticated
way.
obviously it was only a demo controller setup with several
features not yet implemented for example those regarding
tactile control and haptics.
the holographic projector features a very cheap high
resolution lcd holo-display developed in japan by nintendo
with the help of sharp using licensed nasa technology.
several arrays of smd high-bright white leds (gallium
nitride/indium-gallium nitride) under the above-mentioned
very thin display provide holographic projection of 3d
shapes in the air.
think about the ability to visualize items, characters,
and other objects or simply a control panel, and change,
swap,select and other actions by voice commands or by
touching them.
the other interface i saw (but not tested) featured a two
piece controller shaped like guns (only a gyroscope each
one) and i heard that holographic projection could be used
too with it but only via a separated projector box add-on
that was non shown that day.
by the way, i don't know which kind of controller has been
chosen or which features will be included and which not in
the final design, due to marketing reasons. maybe two
interface versions for different continental markets (i.e.
the cheaper one for countries such as india,china and
south-east asia) but this last one is only a personal
speculation.
that's all i can say about.
working there is like watertight compartments.
enough?
----------------------------------------------------------------
and following that was a link th the NASA website and a quote from the site
http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/successes/ss/7-043text.html
Quote
$300,000 of support from Japanese company to develop for game applications
I know that none of this is confirmed, and may be downright fantastical, but I do still find it interesting.
Post by: MrMojoRising on July 01, 2005, 12:07:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1 and may be downright fantastical, but I do still find it interesting.
Whether that is true or not it's definately fantastical!...but yeah, probably BS.
Post by: Toruresu on July 01, 2005, 03:52:34 AM
So from touch screen control we now have 3d holographic control.
Wait for a big let down when Nintendo shows a regular (but great) controller and that the DS will also function as a controller via wireless connection.
Post by: Shift Key on July 01, 2005, 04:29:22 AM
Quote
Light gun games are dead anyway, HDTV killed them.
AT THE GOING DOWN OF THE SUN
AND IN THE MORNING
LEST WE FORGET
R.I.P CRT technology
And no, Duck Hunt will not rise up from the ashes, Mario. NO LIGHT GUN.
Quote
I didnt think it was that bad, nintendo copyed sony with using the c-stick
Blol, dual analog is hardly revolutionary. DUUUUUUAAAAAAL!
"HAY GUYS, WHAT'S OUR NEXT BIG THING?"
"HOW ABOUT ANOTHER ANALOG STICK? THAT'D BE THE BEES NEES! IT COULD EVEN BE USEFUL FOR SOMETHING"
"YAY! PAY RISE TIME!"
Quote
As I've been saying recently, Nintendo needs to say f*ck em to the mainstreme. If people can't take care of their system enough so they won't break the harddrive it is likely it won't be long before they scratch their disks or the laser inside the system. This latest excuse from Nintendo on the harddrive sounds more like, "we're just stuborn as f*ck, so lick it, we're cheap and we are using flash memory; and Sony doesn't have either for PS3 so that makes it okay." Just because Sony does or doesn't do something does not make it okay.
Are you lost? You must be looking for the HDTV drama thread. We're talking about controllers here.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 01, 2005, 05:23:55 AM
Reggie keeps on making it sound like the controller itself is CONFIGURABLE...to become the best controller for whatever game you are playing. That would be revolutionary...but also sounds impracticle.
I am totally lost with what Nintendo is trying here, but it is very exciting.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 01, 2005, 05:29:03 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 01, 2005, 05:54:08 AM
Nintendo has sold me on the backwards compatiable, because I got rid of all my gaming systems except the portables, and my Cube.
Post by: trip1eX on July 01, 2005, 08:00:18 AM
The configurable things seems to lead towards a touchpad of sorts that could be programmable. Maybe a controller that breaks in two and comes wtih different right and left sides.
Also here's another brainstorm. Have you guys seen that keyboard for the pc that is basically a blank slate which comes with a set of keys that stick onto to the slate? YOu can arrange them however you want. They are also removable and have a tactile feedback like a key on a regular keyboard. Perhaps a tech like that will be in the controller.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 01, 2005, 11:12:06 AM
Nasa getting support money from a Japanese company and the US army, and cooperating with Ford motor company?
WHAT ARE THEY DOING?!
THE MAN-EATING OPTIMUS ASIMO TRANSFORMING CAR SOLIDER WILL SOON BE UNLEASHED
HIDE YOUR KIDS
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 01, 2005, 11:14:36 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 01, 2005, 11:28:17 AM
Post by: KirbySStar on July 01, 2005, 05:51:43 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on July 01, 2005, 06:42:07 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 01, 2005, 07:01:05 PM
Now the arcades are really pathetic.
I miss the entire gaming scene of the late 80s early 90s actually.
Post by: Shecky on July 01, 2005, 07:03:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
BWUH?
Nasa getting support money from a Japanese company and the US army, and cooperating with Ford motor company?
Actually that would be illegal, NASA can't get money from a company - they can't compete with them either.... this is a SBIR, where the SB stands for Small Business. This was a proposal by the Physical Optics Corporation. *They* would be getting the support along with $$ from NASA.
Post by: UncleBob on July 01, 2005, 08:08:19 PM
Like I said, it'd never work... but it'd be neat.
Post by: MrMojoRising on July 02, 2005, 01:37:29 AM
Post by: KirbySStar on July 02, 2005, 12:15:59 PM
QuoteThen explain the Tempur-Pedic Swedish Mattress which uses NASA's memory foam? How is that not illegal?
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
BWUH?
Nasa getting support money from a Japanese company and the US army, and cooperating with Ford motor company?
Actually that would be illegal, NASA can't get money from a company - they can't compete with them either.... this is a SBIR, where the SB stands for Small Business. This was a proposal by the Physical Optics Corporation. *They* would be getting the support along with $$ from NASA.
Post by: nickmitch on July 02, 2005, 12:57:18 PM
Post by: Shecky on July 02, 2005, 04:59:19 PM
Quote
Then explain the Tempur-Pedic Swedish Mattress which uses NASA's memory foam? How is that not illegal?
They may not be able to get money, mattresses is another story. . .
Ummm, that's different and is one of the reasons NASA is there. "For the benefit of all." What your thinking of is called "technology transfer." You won't see NASA making it's own mattresses anytime soon, and that special foam can be licensed out further if it really is a NASA tech. (On a side note, I've been wanting to look up what the really story is behind that mattress... they always seem to word that part of there infomercial *very* carefully). Also, NASA didn't get money from Tempur-Pedic in order to make a nice mattress.
NASA can get into space act agreements (SAA) in order to cooperate with other entities, and I'm not saying that working with outside countries is a no-no either (we worked with others on the International Space Station).
There are a *lot* of things that NASA technology has played a roll in. A lot of which you probably use regularly - and a lot of which is probably already in video games and hardware.
Post by: UncleBob on July 03, 2005, 04:57:13 AM
Post by: SgtShiversBen on July 03, 2005, 11:36:02 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on July 03, 2005, 03:29:02 PM
"you can stick it (the Revolution's controller) in your pants"
-EGM
Post by: nickmitch on July 03, 2005, 03:44:39 PM
Post by: Edisim on July 03, 2005, 04:18:57 PM
maybe the revolutionary aspect this time around won't be any single feature on the controller itself, but rather that nintendo is getting rid of the idea of any single standard controller that is supposed to work for all game genres, and is instead releasing multiple controllers up front, including a keyboard/keypad/remote control (for the dvd, web/downloading, etc..), and maybe a headset for voice command (for, if nothing else, a very user-friendly interface for the revolution's menu systems)
...thinking about the cube's controller, there wasn't really anything terribly innovative aside from the digital click of the shoulder buttons (yawn). the ergonomic styling was great, and wavebird was nice, but there wasn't a lot in terms of innovation there, hardware-wise anyway... though even without anything terribly innovative, just the layout/placement of the buttons and pads and sticks and so forth WAS put to great use in games like metroid prime and rogue leader..
Post by: Edisim on July 03, 2005, 04:42:38 PM
"change the way people interact with games"... could be that the "revolutionary" aspect of the controller/control-interface is designed more to draw in nongamers and casual gamers more than it is to satify/dazzle normal/core gamers... and you don't necessarily need new/innovatice hardware to change the way people "interact" with games. animal crossing is a game that uses a standard controller (doesn't even need a microphone), but you definitely didn't play that game the way you would play a normal game. you could only "play" animal crossing for ten or twenty minutes a day, and you didn't even necessarily play any time any day you wanted--there were specific dates and times that you had to be there...
gameboy micro. nintendo's philosophy/spiel behind that seems to be: whenever you've got five minutes, here and there, waiting for a bus or a friend or whatever, you could take it out and play. that's not really something that can be done with most games--if you want to make progress in that game. but it's a whole different idea with the micro; it's not about conventional gaming in that you're playing to necessarily finish the game, you just play when you want, when you have time, because it's fun..
i think that core gamers aren't necessarily the primary target nintendo is aiming to please with their new controller/interface. we might be pleasantly surprised, or we might be initially disappointed until we see how it works with conventional games...
Post by: nemo_83 on July 04, 2005, 04:21:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
What was the context?!?
"Some say..."
Post by: stevey on July 04, 2005, 04:46:41 PM
No I play for day on end with no stoping. I think it's a normal controller with something to make it revolutionary in it but it still normal so it can play nes snes n64 games.
Post by: couchmonkey on July 05, 2005, 02:06:52 PM
What could work is a controller that transforms automatically based on a signal from the game, so no extra work is required from the user, but even that would probably confuse most people. I think the idea of configurable controllers is nifty, but not really what Nintendo is aiming for.
Edit / P.S.: All those moving parts would make the controllers pretty delicate and expensive, too, I imagine.
Post by: nickmitch on July 05, 2005, 03:55:18 PM
Post by: Darkheart on July 05, 2005, 06:10:12 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 05, 2005, 07:03:15 PM
Post by: Darkheart on July 05, 2005, 07:10:56 PM
Anyways you know transformers love playin the Ds anywhoo http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=138
Post by: nickmitch on July 05, 2005, 07:33:37 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 06, 2005, 11:27:07 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on July 06, 2005, 04:57:35 PM
The dev. Tool that will be available to the consumer will not be an actual dev. Kit that will require programming to realize a game. It will draw on the virtual console as a basis for game-editing and creating from scratch brand new experiences based on old-game mechanics, graphical art styles and environment. It allows one to stripe away a previous game world to the basics and start new while implementing anything you want. It is hard to describe until you see it in action but rest assured it IS real and will be an astonishing feature that will make Rev. one of a kind. With the spec alone without the addition of dedicated cube-mapping just pushing polys the Rev. will be about a quarter more powerful than the 360 at its highest graphical limit. And w/ cube-mapping implemented it WILL exceed PS3’s fidelity through lower spec although it is a cheat it is effective nonetheless. Oh, and a couple new SSB characters will be from what I’ve heard, Link with the Fierce deity mask will be an unlockable and pikmin with olimar,
Now for the controller the way the two pads will be connected will be through a magnetic lock where you put one piece into another with magnets inside and the magnets lock them together. Then to release the two pads you will hold down a small button and twist them and they will come back apart. Everything about the controller I mentioned is 100% true they will feature depth mapping, haptic force feedback, weighted gyroscopes, a built-in mic and heat/cool sensors. All combine to create a very impressive experience, by the way if “Wintry_Flutist” is really Reggie Fils-Aime ask him he knows. Another feature that has been dedicated to the Rev. hardware is a technique called “texture-synthesis” whereas it allows developers to create VERY true to life, up close and personal textures and lighting. Where developers used to have to tile the same texture over a huge area of the environment and then wrap that repetitive texture to the gray map and then light it. It now allows the texture to be a part of the gray map with little effort thanks to the dedication of the technique and coupled with the cube-mapping. By the way, the ON video was created in partnership with Nintendo no matter what anyone says, but the technology being that vid is VERY real and will be included as a peripheral for Rev. I got the miserably cool experience to get one of my Japanese friends to let me get another look at the game Ichi the Killer and the playable part that I played really shows in a horrible way what the controllers will do. In the sequence some guy name Kakeehara I think I spelled it right was torturing a man while holding his hand in a bath-tub filled with hot-oil. The trick was to keep him from having a heart-attack by “talking to him kindly” with the mic on the controller. You would place either his arms or legs or sit him down in the oil and you could feel the force feedback from his body twitching as he apparently was minutes from going into shock from the pain. You would move one of the pads in a slapping motion to wake him back up and talk to him “gently” to try and get his heartbeat down so you could interrogate him more. The object of that sequence was to keep him alive and in pain for as long as possible and to get needed info out of him. It was THE MOST disgusting thing I have ever seen but truly magnificent in the way it was executed through the controller features.
Mr. Iwata has already begun to lead into revealing that through the dev. Tool the Rev. will allow the entire back library of old games to be redone independently by the consumer to offer an infinite replay value through the dev. Tool and controller features. He has already stated that Rev. will “enhance” old games just wait and see if I’m not right about how much it really will enhance the games. Just keep your ears and eyes open. As a developer I am excited about Rev. but also see that if Nintendo does in the next-gen take back market dominance like it is trying to do that will be the end of competitive game development in a way. So I kind of hope that at least one of the other companies stays in the business to keep us all honest and competitive and always innovating in some way. Because without competition the only people who lose in the end are the consumers. Right now I am hard at work on the 360 version of RS4 and even though I as a consumer would prefer a Rev. version I am proud of the work I am doing on the version that I am working on. I grew up as a kid on Nintendo’s products and I think in the end Nintendo will probably be the last in the business and will survive anything. It is nice to see that all you people on the forum appreciate all the work they have done through the years and video games’ rise in general. Stay well and we’ll be in touch."
Post by: nickmitch on July 06, 2005, 05:17:40 PM
Post by: Zach on July 06, 2005, 05:29:21 PM
Fingers Crossed that all of this is true!!
Post by: nemo_83 on July 06, 2005, 06:22:06 PM
I am most intrigued by the game editing ideas.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 06, 2005, 06:44:41 PM
1)The guy is leaking NDA material and he throws out where he works and also information about games he is working on that probably also have NDAs. That isn't professional.
2)Once again the controller describtion is just a collection of other rumors put together as one unit...and what a drastically expensive unit.
3)People need to stop including the Nintendo ON video as fact or even possible fact...if you are going to be a new fake rumor don't refer to other people. Like he also did in...
4)Name dropping with Wintry_Flutist just sounds stupid. If this guy is Reggie he will deny it...if he isn't Reggie then he will probably play along with the rumor to get attention.
5)Cubed-Mapping? Hasn't this already been discussed? What he describes doesn't make sense...specially the designing your own maps/skins/maps/levels using Revolution technology. Why? You hurt your own sales by doing making a potentially limitless game.
6)Finally the 2 extra characters in Smash Bros. Rev. We know where he works, why would he have access to see everything new about the game, or new characters. The predictions of the characters are boring anyway.
It was fun fantasy...but again just fantasy.
Post by: nemo_83 on July 06, 2005, 07:13:57 PM
Post by: IceCold on July 06, 2005, 07:16:10 PM
". By the way, the ON video was created in partnership with Nintendo no matter what anyone says, but the technology being that vid is VERY real and will be included as a peripheral for Rev. "
I don't think so... He did a good job of summarizing all of the rumours in his description of the controller, but I highly doubt it's true. And ON as a peripheral???
"...get another look at the game Ichi the Killer and the playable part that I played really shows in a horrible way what the controllers will do. In the sequence some guy name Kakeehara I think I spelled it right was torturing a man while holding his hand in a bath-tub filled with hot-oil. The trick was to keep him from having a heart-attack by “talking to him kindly” with the mic on the controller. You would place either his arms or legs or sit him down in the oil and you could feel the force feedback from his body twitching as he apparently was minutes from going into shock from the pain. You would move one of the pads in a slapping motion to wake him back up and talk to him “gently” to try and get his heartbeat down so you could interrogate him more. The object of that sequence was to keep him alive and in pain for as long as possible and to get needed info out of him. "
And we're supposed to believe that Nintendo made this game? Not bloody likely.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 06, 2005, 07:35:45 PM
The first one, from Nintendo.com, is bull. Why would someone who's leaking this info reveal where they work? Why would someone at Factor 5 know about SSB? There were other loopholes and fallacies in there, but I forgot them when I read the second article, the blog one that nemo posted the link to.
It seems that whoever wrote this took all of the complaints about other fake leaks and made excuses for them; I don't speak english, I can't be bothered to use puncuation, I'm pressed for time so I'll be vague, etc. There were some lines in there that seemed just....amature-ish, or something. Also, his name, Gemini.....hmmm, does that name relate to "Aries" in any way? Wait, aren't they both signs in the zodiac? * Also, it seems that whenever a new piece of "leaked" info comes out, there are a few other "sources" with that same new info that just showed up. When did the post at nintendo.com show up?
They both seem to build off of other rumors, except that second one was done much better. In terms of the technology both of them described, it all seems to be a bunch of gobbledy-gook, but I leave the rest of that to the more tech oriented forumers (feel the pain anywhere in your body? Seems...ehh...)
*The time frame that Aries showed up and the time frame of this here Gemini roughly match their astrological counterparts, however both of them seem to be a sign early. Just thought I'd point that out
Post by: IceCold on July 06, 2005, 07:45:09 PM
Other loopholes, like calling it NOJ instead of NCL etc.
Post by: Caterkiller on July 06, 2005, 07:49:51 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 06, 2005, 07:51:29 PM
(there were a couple actually, it was quite long and boring). Upon going back and reading it, he did mention at the end that that was all guesswork, but it's just all so stupid.
Post by: nickmitch on July 06, 2005, 08:03:57 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 06, 2005, 08:28:08 PM
But anyway I take all REV info with a teaspoon of salt and a cup of water. I niether want to be hyped up or let down, so I sit in a gray area. Only in the official unvieling will color be added so that reality may set in.
to anyone that wishes to join me, here is a seat, a spoon, and a cup.
*provide your own salt and water*
Post by: nickmitch on July 07, 2005, 03:06:12 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on July 08, 2005, 09:25:20 PM
nice effort
Post by: MrMojoRising on July 08, 2005, 11:21:38 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 09, 2005, 02:49:58 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 14, 2005, 02:59:13 PM
Jebus, TVdude!
