Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 15, 2005, 12:57:22 PM
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The Nintendo DS got off to a flying start last weekend in the UK, becoming the fastest-selling console ever with sales topping some 87,000 units in the first two days at retail, according to Chart-Track data released this morning.
Compared to previous console sales over the years, the DS was well ahead of the original GBA's launch statistics, which managed 67,000 back in June 2001, while the remodelled GBA SP debuted with 47,000 in March 2003.
This is great news for the DS, especially considering it still has about 2-3 months of market exclusivity before PSP is supposed to be released - PSP delay
edit: fixed title
p.s. didn't notice official sales thread, this was already mentioned in there too, so let this thread die, sorry
Post by: Mario on March 15, 2005, 01:22:10 PM
http://www.cubed3.com/viewnews.php?storyid=3564
600,000 units sold in Europe in just three days, the total shipment across Europe was 650,000, that is incredible. This should be in the DS sales thread though...
Post by: Noble~Feather on March 15, 2005, 05:18:06 PM
You know, Nintendo didn't utilize their 4 month head start of the DS before the PSP here in the states very well... but PSP will likely launch much later this year in the UK. So lets hope Nintendo actually takes advantage of their big head start this time and releases some big games to satisfy the consumers.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on March 15, 2005, 08:49:19 PM
Post by: Mario on March 15, 2005, 09:26:31 PM
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Originally posted by: Noble~Feather
Nintendo didn't utilize their 4 month head start of the DS before the PSP here in the states very well
Yes, they did. They sold out of DS's, how could they have done better? There are more than enough games out now to keep any DS owner busy and satisfied.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 16, 2005, 05:03:46 AM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on March 16, 2005, 12:20:15 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on March 16, 2005, 01:22:26 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 16, 2005, 01:40:52 PM
They could have easily done better. Selling out means nothing this close to launch. Diehards will buy any Nintendo product at release. However they haven't convinced the fence sitters that the DS is better. A lot of the media isn't convinced and is losing patience in the DS. Hell there's a fair bit of Nintendo fans like myself who aren't convinced it's a worthwhile system yet. There's a lot of debate on the quality of the DS thus far. If Nintendo made good use of their head start you just woudn't see that. Nintendo so far has converted the hardcore fans that will literally buy ANYTHING Nintendo releases, non-gamers, people who think it's the next Gameboy, and kids. There's a huge chunk of hardcore gamers that aren't convinced. It's not just about selling out launch supply. It's about cutting off the PSP before it gets here and Nintendo has not done that at all.
I love Nintendo and if they haven't convinced a fan like me to buy a DS yet then they haven't made use of their head start. How hey can expect to grab any potential PSP owners when their own fanbase has a split opinion on the DS?
Though I feel Nintendo has done a much better job with the non-US launches so I think they can make up some ground in Europe. They're not launching with only one game for example and there will be much more games available by the PSP Europe launch than the PSP North America launch. If Nintendo for example releases a killer app within the next few months then they can make good use of their Europe head start.
Post by: Renny on March 16, 2005, 03:09:12 PM
There is a difference with the DS that we haven't seen in recent Nintendo platforms: They seem to have gotten the attention of true non-gamers. People who really haven't played games since they went to 3D. Since the NES. Or even Pong. I'm basing this purely on anecdotal evidence, but it's evidence I see everywhere. Even in this forum, you've read about parents--who only ever played Dr. Mario--having genuine interest in the DS. The touch interface is as intuitive as Nintendo alluded to before release. If you've played it, you know that it offers some intangible quality to any game where you 'directly' interact with the game. That alone seems to make it more comfortable for the average non-gamer to enjoy it. In the next few years, they could make games as mainstream as movies.
Of course they still have to support the machine with good first- and third-party games, as with any system. With the current list of known games, and the (believable) promise of online games, it looks like Nintendo is serious about following through.
Post by: Noble~Feather on March 16, 2005, 04:11:02 PM
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Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: Noble~Feather
Nintendo didn't utilize their 4 month head start of the DS before the PSP here in the states very well
Yes, they did. They sold out of DS's, how could they have done better? There are more than enough games out now to keep any DS owner busy and satisfied.
I'm talking about the game library.
NOE needs to pump out [good] games for the UK market more often than NOA did.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 16, 2005, 06:24:19 PM
Actually that's why I'm not interested and why others aren't as well. I'm not a non-gamer. I have no interest in non-gamer focused games. If you're not interested in games my attitude is TOUGH SH!T. I don't want MY passtime being altered to appeal to someone who doesn't care about games in the first place. That's what Nintendo is doing right now. Their DS lineup is all non-gamer games. I don't want my gaming experience simplified or dumbed down for a wider audience and if that's the DS' focus then I don't want one. So far Nintendo have not released anything on the DS that to me is for longtime gamers.
Post by: Renny on March 16, 2005, 07:23:04 PM
Anyway, there are obviously titles oriented to more 'seasoned' gamers of your superior caliber in the pike. Conveniently formatted release list.
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on March 16, 2005, 08:47:47 PM
And this statement:
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I don't want my gaming experience simplified or dumbed down for a wider audience and if that's the DS' focus then I don't want one.
is ridiculous considering the the kind of games that are due to come out: MP Hunters and Castlevania, just to name a couple.
And are you trying to imply that people who have bought the DS are non-gamers?
Post by: Urkel on March 16, 2005, 09:18:32 PM
Warioware: Touched, for example. Somehow this game is considered to be for casual gamers. At least, that's what I gather from most reviewers. But why is that?
Is it because the controls are simple? Ikaruga is considered to be about as hardcore as you can get, and yet you rarely need to use more than two buttons, so that can't be it.
Is it because of the difficulty level? Yes, the game is very easy at first, but the challenge continually increases so I don't think that's it.
I think the real issue has to do with elitism. People have noticed that casual gamers are really taking to the DS, therefore those games must be geared towards casual gamers. What's really happening is that Nintendo has made a system with a form of input that any gamer, casual or hardcore, can get a handle on easily. Most people see this as dumbing it down, I see it as removing the unnecessary complexity that a lot of games these days tend to have.
My idea of what makes a hardcore gamer is that they play games because they're fun. That's it.
A casual gamer will play a game because it features a popular movie license/ has pretty graphics/ it's teh mature/ etc...
"if they haven't convinced a fan like me to buy a DS yet then they haven't made use of their head start"
You mean if they can't convince the most whiny, fickle Nintendo fan that ever walked the earth?
Post by: Mario on March 16, 2005, 09:30:16 PM
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I don't want my gaming experience simplified or dumbed down for a wider audience and if that's the DS' focus then I don't want one.
That is not the DS's focus, it's (or one of) focus is to be more accessable.
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So far Nintendo have not released anything on the DS that to me is for longtime gamers.
"Longtime gamers"? LOL
Hmm, let's see, I consider myself a gamer, I didn't start gaming in the early 80s because I wasn't born then, but gaming is a big part of my life and I think i'd classify as a hardcore gamer. Let's see.. what games on DS appeal to me so far?
Super Mario 64 DS
Wario Ware Touched
Project Rub (Feel the Magic)
Metroid Prime Hunters
Polarium
Yoshi Touch & Go
Zoo Keeper
Those games appeal to me as a gamer a GREAT DEAL, I get enjoyment out of them! I only own three of them so far (i've played some of the others) and i'll buy the rest when I get around to it, i'm still busy playing the games that I own, i'm being overwhelmed with so many great DS games here! Let me guess what you think of these games..
Super Mario 64 DS - OMG A PORT! Rehash! Get this thing away from me! New levels, characters, multiplayer, tons of fun minigames? More like port! Damn you Nintendo!
Wario Ware Touched - It's got Wario in it, rehash! It doesn't require pressing 8 buttons at once to control! Nintendo are selling out! Too simple, i'm a hardcore longtime gamer, this game insults my superior gaming knowledge!
Metroid Prime Hunters - Generic FPS!!! Evil western developer! Metroid is ruined!
Feel the Magic - Good example of a game simplified for the masses of non-gamers! I'm not going to waste my money on a bunch of mini games that are all the same because they use the same input device!
Polarium - What is this? An original puzzle game? By Nintendo? More like just another repetitive touch screen gimmick game. I don't have time for this, too busy writing essays about why Nintendo suck.
Yoshi's Touch & Go - Wasn't this just a tech demo a year ago? How dare Nintendo try to sell me a tech demo disguised as a game! This is also another example of Nintendo whoring their mascots out for a quick buck! Throw a Nintendo character into a shallow demo and any Nintendo fanboy will buy it! Well i'm not a fanboy, i'm a longtime gamer.
Zoo Keeper - Who would waste money on this when they can sit next to their PC eating corn chips and play generic online games for free while bitching about games I haven't played in another window?
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 16, 2005, 09:40:22 PM
I'm sure he'll change his tune once Nintendo releases a DS game even he agrees is must-have.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on March 16, 2005, 09:43:59 PM
"You're out on your own, SOCIETY has looked down on you one too many times, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain!"
*Bad rock music*
"WHO ARE YOU OLD MAN?"
"I'm an OLD MAN, and I have 'yer girl"
"RRRRRNNNNNN, SO ANGRY AT YOU"
40 minutes later you can play the first level for three seconds, then watch more exciting FMV. This is a real GAMERS game. The game must contain totally original characters, the type we've all seen before but they're NEW. Bloom lighting is a must. Internet options determine if the game is worth playing or not.
"Features exciting internet features! Download crucial bug fixes, RADICAL GNARLY"
DS cannot handle these real GAMERS games, sadly.
Post by: Berto2K on March 16, 2005, 09:49:53 PM
The DS is the fastest selling system in 2/4 regions of the world in history. Heck, maybe 3/4. Point being, there is software out there that appeals to millions of people. While sitting at GDC waiting for Iwata's keynote speech, I was able to get in a full 16 person pictochat room with 15 other people from around the ballroom. I had no idea who they were, or where they were sitting amongst the hundreds maybe thousands, or what a couple of them were even saying as they wrote in Japanese. But it was one of the coolest things I've seen.
People just need to try these things. Thats the reason Nintendo put out dual demo stations where they could. Get people to try it out and they realise the point. I'd say so far all divisions of Nintendo (for once) have done an awesome job.
Post by: Caillan on March 16, 2005, 11:12:47 PM
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Actually that's why I'm not interested and why others aren't as well. I'm not a non-gamer. I have no interest in non-gamer focused games. If you're not interested in games my attitude is TOUGH SH!T.
I understand what you're saying. I do not believe, however, that the DS' launch 'problems' arise because Nintendo is focusing on non-gamers. They arose because Nintendo felt they had to rush the launch, and gave us a remake and a good game with a short development cycle instead of the next Super Mario Bros. You'll notice that when Reggie or Iawata speaks about their quest to enlighten the industry, they always talk about interface and hardware. Software is mentioned only as they put in their token bit about Nintendo's dedication to maintain the support of existing fans.
Another factor is Nintendo's games. I remember a few years ago seeing a headline on a magazine "Shock Not-Ninties Nintendo game!" with a picture of Yoshi's Story on the front. Right beside it was 89% in big, bold lettering. The publication, though I think it was quite small and limited to Australasia in distribution, covered all major platforms. This memory is kept vivid for me partially because of my own reaction: I stopped and thought "What the f*ck!?". I was genuinely surprised.
Miyamoto said something about people now saying "oh" instead of "ah!" when they hear about a Mario game. Well, this is sort of what's happened to all Nintendo games now. EAD, from being one of the best development houses in the world which always made brilliant games, has degenerated into one of the best development houses in the world which will always make great games, some of which are brilliant. Because games are sparse near launch, it really hurts to have one cool game instead of a truly awesome one.
With regards to Minish Cap, Fargo from Gamespy said: "It's like old school meets new school in a delicious sort of school sandwhich." It was something like that anyway. This is how I feel about the DS' design. When I first got to play it, I almost ordered one then, but I decided to wait instead. I love the hardware, but I'm still not sold on the games.
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People have noticed that casual gamers are really taking to the DS, therefore those games must be geared towards casual gamers.
Perhaps it has something to do with Nintendo constantly pushing the idea that the original interface will introduce new gamers? I don't think that's actually what they mean, especially in terms of the software hopefully available, but that sure is the impression they give. We didn't see that press release about the wide variety of demographics that the DS appeals to on the front page becasue Nintendo doesn't hold a degree of dedication to the issue.
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I'd say so far all divisions of Nintendo (for once) have done an awesome job.
Except for the guys who were meant to make all the brilliant original games. Even over here, Monaco have been... really great. I see advertisments where they should be, the drones at EB wearing DS shirts, and good prices for both the console and games. It gave me a surprise.
Post by: Deguello on March 17, 2005, 04:03:02 AM
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I never thought I'd come to Ian's defense, but you guys are being a bit harsh.
It is really a culmination of pent-up frustration with Ian. Ian, no ffense, but you are becoming that guy who walks into a room and tells everybody how wrong everything is about everything and points out every flaw in every thing ever, and then exits leaving the inhabitants of this room bewildered and kinda ticked.
It really wouldn't be so bad if you didn't contradict yourself so much. I mean you railed against Mario Power Tennis and the like for being "redundant franchise sequels," when by your own admission, your most anticipated DS game, heck even the first one announced that you even showed favor for was Castlevania DS, which, considering I have all three on the GBA, uses the exact same gameplay and heck even the same damn characters. And you rationalized this by saying something about "traditional gameplay" or something. But I don't see how the current DS lineup is not traditional. I mean heck, Wario Ware and Yoshi T&G are score-based. How much more traditional can you get?
You have made huge diatribes that Nintendo needs to advertise a lot to pull in the mainstream gamer and quit appealing to their core fanbase so much with those aforementioned "redundant franchise sequels" and to quit having ads with inside jokes only Nintendo fans would laugh at. Now that the DS seems to be appealing to the mainstream... a lot... all of a sudden you become dismissive of the very same mainstream you wished Nintendo appealed to more and want them to work on convincing you and just you to get a DS. And then you start with this elitist crap.
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Their DS lineup is all non-gamer games.
Do you have a DS? Have you played any of these games you so negatively generalize? There are some bad eggs yes, but no more than would be in ANY lineup. Super Mario 64 DS may be a port, yes, but it's at least a port of one of the greatest video games of all time. You used to criticize it for being a port, but I think "non-gamer game" for Super Mario 64 is a bit much. I mean really. I find it hard to grossly generalize every game for a system without owning that system. Oh, please don't tell me you are basing this opinion on reviews. The games may not appeal to you, no, but that doesn't allow you the right to say they are all "non-gamer games" which is raher insulting to me, since I love Wario Ware.
What's gotten into you?
Post by: Ian Sane on March 17, 2005, 06:40:11 AM
The thing is I like probably about 90% of Nintendo's Cube games and, excluding ports, about the same percentage of Nintendo's GBA games. At this point in the life of the GBA or Cube I had at least two games for each system that I really really liked and I was interested in a lot of the upcoming releases.
I don't feel that with the DS. With the DS lineup it's like all the games are really short arcade style games where the whole thrill of playing is based on the thrill of using a touchscreen. It's like using the system itself is supposed to be the fun part. Whenever I read a story of someone saying how their non-gaming friend or relative or whatever really gets into the DS it's like they're entertained by the sheer concept. It's like how when someone is just starting out with games the concept of playing a game is a thrill. I don't find that interesting. I want a game with more meat and more depth to it. If they want to release little quirky games designed to attract non-gamers that's fine but they should also release something more geared towards experienced gamers.
When I say that they're non-gamer games I don't mean that you're not a gamer if you like them. I mean that they're designed more to attract non-gamers. Most of Nintendo's Cube and GBA games are designed for people with an interest in videogames. DS games are designed more to attract newcombers to videogames. A gamer can like them. I just don't because I want something targeted more towards someone who has an interest in games and is familiar with them. They're not really bad per say. They're just not for me and I'm not going to buy a system where the general library is not for me.
"You have made huge diatribes that Nintendo needs to advertise a lot to pull in the mainstream gamer and quit appealing to their core fanbase so much with those aforementioned "redundant franchise sequels" and to quit having ads with inside jokes only Nintendo fans would laugh at. Now that the DS seems to be appealing to the mainstream... a lot... all of a sudden you become dismissive of the very same mainstream you wished Nintendo appealed to more and want them to work on convincing you and just you to get a DS."
I want Nintnendo to expand to attract a wider audience of gamers, not abandon their core fanbase for the mainstream. With the DS I feel it's more of a switch, like they're altering their whole way of making games to appeal to a new group. Nintendo has all these talks about attracting new types of gamers and how people are tired of gaming as it is. Personally I'm feeling squeezed out because I'm not a new type of gamer and I'm not tired of gaming as it is. With the DS it seems to me like Nintendo is changing their focus and their old fanbase isn't included. Now obviously some of that fanbase is going to adapt to the change and some aren't. I feel I'm in the category of those who aren't and I know I'm not the only one.
Nintendo can still prove me wrong. I'm still interested in them. They can still wow me with the Revolution and they can still release some DS games I'm interested in. It's not like I'm going to rush out and buy a PSP or PS3 instead or anything.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 17, 2005, 06:59:06 AM
Also, I question the use of the word hardcore gamer. To me there are three levels of gamers, the casual gamer who plays a game on occassion and barely knows quality, the average gamer who's like us, reads reviews, plays games very often, etc. Then there's the hardcore. That's the kind of people who can rattle down a list of all moves in Street Fighter with their frame counts and weaknesses. The kinds of people who do speedruns with the most insane tricks available, the kind that complains about balancing when the rest of the world didn't even know the game had strategy at all. That's where I'd file Ty. I doubt any hardcore gamer gives a crap about graphics since many of them still play many 2d games. The casual gamer is swayed by advertising, image and licenses, the average gamer usually by media bias and the hardcore will still be playing the same three games ten years from now
.
Post by: couchmonkey on March 17, 2005, 08:13:54 AM
As for me, I'm very interested in the DS, I'm always excited to see new ways of playing games. I had a quick go at Super Mario 64 DS in Toys R Us the other day, and it was pretty fun! I didn't tackle anything particularly hard so it wouldn't be fair for me to say that the stylus is as good as analog control, but I didn't have much trouble with it. But it's the games that are really built for the system like Yoshi Touch N Go that have me really interested! I'll probably be buying a DS at the end of March.
Post by: Noble~Feather on March 17, 2005, 02:52:16 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 17, 2005, 04:48:39 PM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Also, I question the use of the word hardcore gamer. To me there are three levels of gamers, the casual gamer who plays a game on occassion and barely knows quality, the average gamer who's like us, reads reviews, plays games very often, etc. Then there's the hardcore. That's the kind of people who can rattle down a list of all moves in Street Fighter with their frame counts and weaknesses. The kinds of people who do speedruns with the most insane tricks available, the kind that complains about balancing when the rest of the world didn't even know the game had strategy at all. That's where I'd file Ty. I doubt any hardcore gamer gives a crap about graphics since many of them still play many 2d games. The casual gamer is swayed by advertising, image and licenses, the average gamer usually by media bias and the hardcore will still be playing the same three games ten years from now
I agree totally with this. The word "hardcore gamer" is too liberally more than a few times. There are few actual hardcore players
My scale of gamers is from 0 - 100, 0 being the very casual gamer, 50 being the average, and 100 being the hardcore gamer. Nintendo, at the moment, needs to target those that fall between 31 and 65. These are the people who buy the software. The hardcore gamers will come, and the people who fall below 30 are not worth it. Those are the people who bought the PS2s and don't buy any games, thus the disproportionate software sales for the PS2. It's like,
"Here's my PS2, but I don't have any games for it..."
"That's great...how much did it cost?"
"200 bucks - what a deal, eh?"
Post by: Deguello on March 17, 2005, 09:46:15 PM
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Most of Nintendo's Cube and GBA games are designed for people with an interest in videogames.
Like Wario Ware!
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DS games are designed more to attract newcombers to videogames.
Like Wario Ware!
Post by: nickmitch on March 18, 2005, 02:41:05 PM
They're mostly Madden and GTA freaks.
When they see Touched! and Twisted! I think they'll be more interested.
Post by: Urkel on March 18, 2005, 07:19:21 PM
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Originally posted by: Noble~Feather
Games like Soul Calibur, Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, Online Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy III, NFSU, MPHunters, C&C, StarCraft, AoE, SSB, Pokemon, Mario Kart, Rayman, Castlevania, Xenosaga, Advance Wars, Baten Kaitos, Dynasty Warriors, FF Crystal Chronicles, Viewtiful Joe, a Mana sequel, Mario Bros., Sonic, Shin Megami Tensei, needless to mention some potentially great franchises like Another Code, Nanostray, Moonlight Fables, Lost in Blue, Egg Monster Hero (which is actually a long-time-running JPN franchise), ect... aren't core gamer games?
Did I miss something here? I don't recall Starcraft being announced, let alone rumored, for the DS.
Would be a real killer app, though.
