Post by: Ages on March 04, 2005, 09:21:39 AM
Fast forward to present. The Capcom 5...er...um, 4, for the most part, is left in shambles. P.N. 03 failed to impress with it's shallow gameplay, lack of locales to explore, and the inability to move and shoot at the same time. Dead Phoenix was cancelled entirely, despite looking like one of the more promising of the five titles shown. Killer 7, which looks to have an amazing art style, as well as story, really seems to lack where it matters most, control. Which brings us to Viewtiful Joe, an amazing game that (at least in my eyes) totally fits the Nintendo persona. It was different, unique, and most importantly FUN. So it's obvious to see why Capcom couldnt wait to make a sequel...and port both of them to the PS2, effectively keeping a prennial must have game on the Cube. When Nintendo/Capcom was questioned on Resident Evil 4, undoubtedly the most important game announced at the conference, both parties reassured us that the game would remain exclusive for Nintendo's console. As we all know, about a month before RE4 went on sale, Capcom announced the PS2 version, effectively siphoning sales from the Cube version, and in turn, leaving more systems on the shelves.
So in all, Capcom has tantilized the Cube fanbase with five exclusive titles, and singlehandedly pulled each and every one from our grasp. Each rereleased on the PS2, with worse sales than the Cube versions. Yet, the company wont port over DMC, a game that would definetely diversify Nintendo's lineup. They keep games like Street Fighter and Mega Man exclusive to the PS2, even though many Cube gamers grew up playing those games on their NES and SNES. Looking back at this whole ordeal makes me wonder if it was really worth it. Sure the games debuted on the Cube, but the quality was lacking and marketting was nearly nonexistant (excluding Viewiful Joe and RE4). Has this discouraged Ninty from attempting any other such collaborations? I believe so. Look at the most recent joint ventures Nintendo has worked on. They all put well known characters in 3rd party games to garner sales. While I have nothing against this sort of marketing, it doesnt give the fanbase anything new, which is all we want at this point in the game.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on March 04, 2005, 09:38:00 AM
My opinion of the 5 is that maybe once all is said and done and RE4 and Killer 7 sell horribly on the PS2 maybe it'll teach Capcom that GC is a viable platform for its games and maybe next gen we won't have the same things happen that occured this gen.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 04, 2005, 09:58:09 AM
Hell that's pretty the pattern for all the main Cube supporters. Nintendo attracts developers because they're great game artists so other game artists want to associate with them. They also feel that having a console maker that is also a developer is important so they want to support Nintendo because they know that without them big non-gaming corporate giants would call all the shots and game art would be sacrificed.
Publishers however only care about money and they're short sighted. Just like how they don't see that sequels will eventually get stale and that new games and ideas are what drive the industry forward they don't see that without Nintendo the industry would be severerly hurt. So there's no loyalty. It's just "where can I make money right now?"
So looking at that I think Nintendo's best bet for support is to lure the key talent away from the third parties themselves and have them setup new teams that are published by Nintendo. It's basically the second party strategy that for some reason Nintendo has gone away from. Mikami likes Nintendo but is restricted by Capcom. So remove Capcom and just get Mikami. Sure you don't get the intellectual property this way but sequels are rarely system sellers anyway. Resident Evil sold Playstations for example but didn't sell Dreamcasts or Cubes and it won't sell anything else. Mikami would be a better resource making something brand new then continuing with franchises that most people are tired of anyway. Lure key talent and give them creative control. Being the "game artist" console will attract some very significant support.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on March 04, 2005, 10:14:53 AM
If so then getting them to come to Nintendo would be harder, becuse you'd have to wait until their contracts expired.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 04, 2005, 10:34:11 AM
That sounds like what Ninty did with Tokyo EAD...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 04, 2005, 10:40:47 AM
- Killer7, in its current form, has controls that I think are much more acceptable than the RE Remake's. You're either navigating rooms to solve puzzles, or you're engaged in [more detailed] gunplay. RE1 had poor navigational controls, and a shallow, visual simulation of gunplay. So, improve one aspect, and get rid of the other. Heck, I'm not really bothered by its adventure-like navigation, it even seems similar to Shenmue's -- run around to look for interesting things, but when there's a fight, the setup changes to focus on the fight. I believe there's a certain genre people like that involves a lot of that... hmm. In mechanics and design (not concerning its specific atmosphere and style), RE1 was a watered down Legend of Zelda with icky controls. Killer7 looks promising as an adventure, as opposed to action, game. The problem isn't really in the controls, the problem is someone doesn't like adventure games.
Post by: Ages on March 04, 2005, 11:22:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
Are developers under contracts with the companies they work for?
If so then getting them to come to Nintendo would be harder, becuse you'd have to wait until their contracts expired.
I believe some devs are under contracts. Naughty Dog for example, was under contract with Universal for the Playstation One era. They had no ownership to Crash, and...well you see how popular he is today. Meanwhile Naughty Dog has made Jak and Daxter a huge success, that doesnt play half bad either (from what i hear...never got a chance to try them out)
Oh, and thanks to all for the feedback. Been a long time reader, and I dont post much. This was my first attempt at the whole rant thing that Ian has gotten down to a science.
Post by: Savior on March 04, 2005, 03:30:38 PM
Of course, this is the company that doesnt have a problem with Dino Hunter, and Clock Tower being similar to Resident Evil?
and i think Nintendo should spend a couple million dollars, or maybe 7 million dollars and finally hire Mikami away from Capcom.... Give that guy total creative control over his own development studio... the guy would make awesome games...
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 04, 2005, 03:34:08 PM
He'll probably end up being bought up and made part of Microsoft though.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 04, 2005, 03:37:09 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 04, 2005, 04:29:14 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 04, 2005, 04:46:58 PM
Post by: Djunknown on March 04, 2005, 08:02:20 PM
PN03: Plain dud. For some reason, it reminds me of George Lucas's first film THX1138. Interesting concepts, but incohesive.
Viewtiful Joe: Breath of fresh air. I'm still surprised Sony decided to pick this one up, despite their anti-2d stance. Heck, I'm still playing it today Alastor rules . I'm pretty sure many PS2 go'ers wrote this off as TeH KitTy, despite having Dante and other cool extras.
Dead Phoenix: The world may never know what would've been. Another PN03? Or another Ikaruga with angels? (Is it still listed in Nintendo Power's gamewatch section? They should take it off the list...)
RE 4: Despite the long wait, and somewhat insane choices, it paid off. Its a shame it came so late; but at least it didn't get lost in the holiday shuffle. Unless Capcom hypes up the PS2 release with sparklinl content, I can't see it breaking the 'Cube's first month sales. By the time its out, Sony will be hyping up the PS3 and launch titles.
Killer 7: We'll find out in the summer. As of now, the gaming media STILL hasn't had a chance to get their hands on it. They just saw Capcom reps playing it. They have said though, that this may be shocking even to adults, so we'll probably not get a demo either. Both 'Cube and PS2 versions will hit stateside at the same time, so they're not even bothering with the 'exclusive' illusion.
Capcom the publisher screwed the 'big' N just because it could. VJ on PS2? You bet? DMC on 'Cube? Ha! Get bent!
As mentioned earlier, Nintendo either has to throw money hats or publish it themselves. It may mean getting their hands 'dirty' with teH MaTuReH titles, but better that than being a whipping boy.
Post by: CHEN on March 06, 2005, 05:29:49 AM
A couple of rants:
- They screwed Viewtiful Joe 2 by developing it for the PS2 in mind and then porting it over to the GCN.
- The RE4 announcement was just bad timing.
- Corporations are evil.
- Some Dante would be nice. ;_;
I can't blame Capcom for everything though. They were financially in a bad situation then and had to take action to please the stockholders. But still, from our point of view, it's bad for the future.
If N5 proves to be something special, developers could get woo'd to Nintendo's side, much like what happened to the DS. The problem is that money talks and company executives are bastards when it comes to this. We shall see.
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on March 06, 2005, 07:23:03 AM
Post by: CHEN on March 06, 2005, 11:33:05 AM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on March 06, 2005, 10:18:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
If Viewtiful Joe 2 was made on the PS2 in mind then why was the gamecube version better and if it was PS2 in mind then wouldn't they both came out on the same day rather the 2 week exclusiveness on the cube version?
Because apart from Spy Hunter and SSX Tricky, every GameCube port looks better than the PS2 version. Nintendo probably gave Capcom a free value coupon book for the massive two week exclusive crap.
"We sold seven copies in that two weeks, then along came the PS2 version and we've still sold seven copies. I think the GC is to blame!"
You people are also forgetting the GC has Capcom's Gotcha Force as an exclusive title. Virtual On with toys a go go.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 06, 2005, 10:46:23 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 06, 2005, 10:54:25 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 06, 2005, 11:30:02 PM
Post by: odifiend on March 07, 2005, 06:07:24 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 07, 2005, 06:09:48 AM
Because Ikaruga looks like a SHMUP so people expected it to play the way it did. Just looking at screenshots P.N. 03 looks like a full 3D action game so since it didn't play like one reviewers were confused. It's like a more extreme example of the "Metroid Prime looks like an FPS but isn't an FPS so I'm confused" syndrome.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 07, 2005, 10:17:23 AM
Post by: odifiend on March 07, 2005, 02:04:16 PM
I haven't played GGX2, but it sounds like it would be hell to play with the GCN's dpad
.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 07, 2005, 07:06:43 PM
. Damn tiny deadzone.It's there to demand some input skill and add a short vulnerability period before the move starts that the player can shorten with skill. I have no problems with tapping those directions.
Post by: Savior on March 07, 2005, 07:12:43 PM
Post by: Savior on March 07, 2005, 07:17:18 PM
Quote
Why is it that people hate P.N. 03 so much?
Because its not "Robots May Cry"
Btw, played a bit of that DMC3, awesome stuff... Id kill for a Devil May Cry Trilogy release on the GCN...........
Post by: odifiend on March 07, 2005, 09:03:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Well, it's hell to play with the PS2's analog stick, that much is sure
It's there to demand some input skill and add a short vulnerability period before the move starts that the player can shorten with skill. I have no problems with tapping those directions.
Well, I'm not sure I agree with your logic b/c if you were using a mid suit, your chain would be smaller and in some cases the moves are the same. My stance on it, is Capcom did it just because it was an advanced suit - something to do. But I guess it really isn't Capcom's fault as my problem lies with the input device... Speed never is a problem for me, but I guess I'm not as coordinated as you.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 07, 2005, 10:18:54 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 08, 2005, 03:58:35 AM
Post by: vudu on March 08, 2005, 08:16:32 AM
QuoteI've never played P.N.03, but it's always interested me (especially now that you can find it for under $20). Can someone tell me if the game plays alright with the Hori Digital Controller (i.e. do you need to use the C-stick or the Z-button)?
I don't have a problem with multiple directions, but in P.N. 03 you HAVE to do the combinations on the dpad, which is off to the side and a little on the small side.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 08, 2005, 09:01:18 AM
