Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 25, 2005, 04:44:44 AM
Kotaku Gaming Blog noted today that NCL has updated their Nintendo DS website with details of the new Download Service. The following content is available for wireless download at Japanese stores:
The first two are playable demos of DS games being released in Japan. The third is a set of downloadable songs for Band Bros., the music game that has been available since the Japanese DS launch.
The demos will only be available while the DS is turned on (or asleep), but the Band Bros. content can be saved permanently to the game card.
The NCL webpage lists dates from Feb. 26 (today in Japan) through March 21. No pricing information is shown, so this is probably a free service.
Post by: Pale on February 25, 2005, 04:59:16 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on February 25, 2005, 05:28:19 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 25, 2005, 05:56:45 AM
Holy CRAP this is awesome...Please localize the game, Ninty! And give us awesome songs! (ASHLEY'S THEME YES!)
Post by: Eastmere on February 25, 2005, 06:07:16 AM
Post by: Nephilim on February 25, 2005, 06:36:24 AM
this is small compared with the recently announced i-tune clone type deal sony made with yahoo
2 demo's and 13 nes type games, and a few songs doesnt scream out
need a demo of earthbound 3 or something to get people talking!
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2005, 06:44:18 AM
And I agree with PaleZer0 in that they need to make this a WiFi thing. Going to a store just to play a demo isn't convienent for everyone. It's a good option to have but as the only way to get the downloadable content it is ridiculously limited. Online downloads are a must.
To me this is like a classic example of Nintendo being stubborn and forcing everyone to do things their way. We want demos. Physical demos like Sony and MS have. But Nintendo doesn't want to do it that way. With the Cube they thought in-store demos was the way to go and now they're altering that concept but still being stubborn and restrictive. I WANT TO KEEP MY DEMOS. This is cool as an option but it's inferior as an outright replacement. I also want downloadable content. Again in store downloads are a cool option especially for those not interested in online gaming but it sucks as the only option.
This idea is really solid but it has to be one of several options. Nintendo can never seem to understand that concept. Doing what the competition does plus MORE is an advantage. Doing something different but more restrictive is a disadvantage.
If this was online third parties would make good use of it and the concept would really take of. Limited to stores only it will only be used by Nintendo themselves.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 25, 2005, 06:45:17 AM
Post by: hudsonhawk on February 25, 2005, 07:01:09 AM
Quote
And I agree with PaleZer0 in that they need to make this a WiFi thing. Going to a store just to play a demo isn't convienent for everyone. It's a good option to have but as the only way to get the downloadable content it is ridiculously limited. Online downloads are a must.
See, I disagree. In this case, not only does it bring people into the store, but it works as a sort of viral marketing - people coming into the game store will see actual DS owners interacting with each other, probably jumping into multiplayer games and striking up conversation.
It would be cool to keep the demos - but in this case there's just no way to do it (the DS' memory is volatile), but the fact that you can put it to sleep and play it when you get home seems like a decent compromise. The only other option would be some sort of "demo cart" - a flash cart that would let you save the demos to it.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2005, 07:34:24 AM
And by having online downloads as another option this ruins this marketing plan how? If you want to spend gas money driving to a store then go ahead and meet with everyone and chat it up all you want. Some of us don't feel like driving out of our way just to play a damn demo. Why are so many people here so against giving people options?
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 25, 2005, 07:35:54 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2005, 07:40:52 AM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on February 25, 2005, 07:42:40 AM
Foot traffic is generated by this as a result more sales, which means more shelf space for ninty.
Post by: Plugabugz on February 25, 2005, 07:44:14 AM
A point out is who has Wireless Internet at their home? *raises hand and looks around*
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 25, 2005, 07:45:31 AM
Post by: Nephilim on February 25, 2005, 07:47:09 AM
what are u talking about?
to download a game, u will need a SD card.....which well do have memory to save 100k nes style games and a few japanese demo's
and hopefully some cooler stuff later on
Post by: vudu on February 25, 2005, 07:52:10 AM
QuoteWhat about demos for games that don't have levels, such as Yoshi Touch & Go? If a demo is released that you could keep for as long as you wanted, there would be little incentive to purchase the game.
This is cool but I don't like the fact that demos only last as long as the system is turned on. I like having the ability to keep the demo. I like having the ability to play when I want at my own pace. This doesn't allow for that.
I'm going to have to agree with Hostile and say stop complaining. Those little game carts cost money. Nintendo doesn't like to give up money. Most companies don't. Plus, what are the chances we'll see widely available PSP demos?
Speaking of which, does anyone have any idea how much a DS cart costs to manufacture relative to a GBA cart, a PSP disc and a GC/PS2/Xbox disc?
Post by: JonLeung on February 25, 2005, 08:09:29 AM
If they really had a problem with people holding on to demos for some reason, they could make them self-delete after a set amount of time or number of plays. Either way is still less limiting than having to have to go to a store to get. Of course, having a GBA cartridge as a memory card would only be worth getting if downloadable stuff becomes a more common thing. And hackers might use it to grab multiplayer data and keep it...for whatever reason.
Post by: hudsonhawk on February 25, 2005, 08:14:16 AM
Quote
to download a game, u will need a SD card.....which well do have memory to save 100k nes style games and a few japanese demo's
and hopefully some cooler stuff later on
And this SD card goes where?
I think you're confusing the Play-Yan downloadable games (which are limited to the GBA mode of the DS) with this thing, which is a kiosk at a gaming store that uploads actual DS game demos to your DS' internal memory.
What I was saying is that there'd need to be something like the Play-Yan, a flash-able DS cart (or a DS cart with an SD card reader) in order to keep the demos from disappearing when you turn the power off.
Post by: Pale on February 25, 2005, 08:23:21 AM
QuoteHaving worked in retail I think the exact opposite will be true. Most 'normal' stores will frown upon this for security reasons. They don't want you coming into the store with something that can be purchased at the store because then they can never be sure if what you walked out with is something you actually paid for.
Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
Ian, this is also good for realtions with retailers.
Foot traffic is generated by this as a result more sales, which means more shelf space for ninty.
One cool thing they could do IF they limited these sorts of things to stores is allow for virus like migration from one DS to another. If your friend hits up the NYC store and gets cool stuff, you should then be able to hit up your friend for said cool stuff.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2005, 08:28:53 AM
That's Nintendo's logic right there. They think that demos hurt sales despite strong evidence that on the Playstation demos help encourage sales. The only time a demo would kill a game's sales is if the whole game was on the demo but that would be pretty stupid. I assume Yoshi Touch & Go isn't like Pong or something where it would be impossible to demo the game without giving away the whole thing.
"What I meant, Ian, was that you could be optimistic when you hear the news and start pushing for something like you're suggesting a little later. They don't even have an online service yet. You've got to take this stuff in steps, for Christ's sake."
Okay that's valid. Realistically this could be just part one of Nintendo's plans and they will offer online downloads as well. The problem is Nintendo has a history of doing something non-traditional and not going beyond that. The fact that they were so stingy with demo discs with the Cube makes me assume that they probably think that this in-store stuff is good enough. If they had a reputation for providing options then I would assume better. If demo discs were widely available for the Cube for example then my response to this would be "great, that's awesome" because I would have assurance that this is just another option instead of some wacky new Nintendo way to do something that doesn't need fixing.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on February 25, 2005, 08:38:06 AM
What I do think is a majority, however, are people who are tired of hearing news that is optimistic only to know that what is coming is a post from you ranting about what is wrong with said announcement and how Nintendo sucks and on and on.
That said, I do wish there was the option of downloading online and/or being able to keep the demos. But, whatever, I'm not going have a coronary over it.
Post by: Plugabugz on February 25, 2005, 08:43:36 AM
It would defeat the point of even having wireless online oxygen if no one has the hardware to do so.
Post by: Kirby_PopStar on February 25, 2005, 08:56:33 AM
So you could, essentially, do something like download new characters or trophies for a Nintendo DS Smash Bros. (they'd have to be pre-programmed in, but this would be a way of unlocking them, giving the casual gamer the illusion that the Nintendo DS Download Kiosk is loading it into your DS) or little kiosk exclusive tech-demo games, sort of like the little Garage Games for Play-Yan... or even demos of games that are not out yet! Think about it!
I see MUCH opportunity for this. It's a step in the right direction, it really is...
Post by: Pale on February 25, 2005, 09:07:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Plugabugz
Attempt #2: Who has wireless connectivity at home?
It would defeat the point of even having wireless online oxygen if no one has the hardware to do so.
That comment reminds me of when everyone tried to talk down X-Box live by saying not enough people actually have broadband... Wireless routers cost the same as normal routers did a year ago... There is no reason it can't be an assumed accessory by people who want to play online at home.
Also, there are several rumors out there that the rev will act as a wireless access point for the DS as well...which would be damn hot. =P
Post by: Plugabugz on February 25, 2005, 09:23:44 AM
Here in South London I know next to nobody with WiFi, minus businesses - It's yet to get "out there" on a mass scale.
If all my friends wanted to play (for example) Metroid Prime Hunters 8-player online co-op against another group, they would all have to come here to do that, or go trekking to a Wifi Zone to do so.
One potential way to "fill any hole" could be for Nintendo to partner with Netgear to offer wireless hardware.
All their wives and children know what broadband is and have it - Knowing what broadband is is no longer an issue (vs pre-2001 to most) whereas it'll take a little realising that you don't have to be a millionaire to go WiFi.
Post by: Pale on February 25, 2005, 09:32:02 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 25, 2005, 09:35:31 AM
Post by: Robotor on February 25, 2005, 10:48:22 AM
But I think game stores offering the demos would be cool too. You would meet people with DS's and could play multiplayer, it would seriously bring out the communication feature. Even more so if the demos were multiplayer based. All in all I find it to be a great idea, it just needs to be expanded a little bit.
Post by: JonLeung on February 25, 2005, 12:11:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Robotor
The characters wouldn't even have to be preprogammed in, the game would just need the capability for added characters.
Great. Just great. I had this really nice reply about unlockable bonuses vs. actual upgrading, and my browser decided not to let it go through and I lost some nice writing.
Somewhat more concisely, again:
I had hoped SSBM's Trophy Gallery would've not just unlocked the Pikmin trophy from a Pikmin save, but rather got "trophy data" from every save file from every first-party Nintendo game, to allow for a continually updated trophy collection and incentive for people to play Nintendo's games. If that sounds too crazy then consider it a nice extra to the people who buy a GameCube for first-party games - and that's probably most of them.
So while Band Bros.' expanded song list is neat, it would be cool if isn't just unlocking them, like Mew/Celebi/Jirachi/Deoxys of Pokémon, but actually adding them in. That would mean that upgrading/bug-fixing would be possible. Not major upgrades, but stuff like new levels or missions or soundtracks or characters. Certain DS games could get better with time, if Nintendo wishes to put in the resources to do so.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 25, 2005, 12:16:00 PM
Um, that sounds like what the download is actually doing from the article...The songs are actually saved on the DS card...
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on February 25, 2005, 01:59:31 PM
Sadly, this means those songs will have the same limitations found in any other custom song.
Post by: kennyb27 on February 25, 2005, 03:36:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
I don't know if this is something that Nintendo would ever consider doing, but releasing a GBA cartridge as a memory card to store downloadable content on the DS would be cool.
Isn't that pretty much what the Play-Yan is? I mean, it is a GBA cart that a SD card fits into, which can store downloadable songs/videos, etc.
Post by: JonLeung on February 25, 2005, 04:28:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TheYoungerPlumber
Bill is correct. In fact, if you explore the Band Bros. website you'll find that they have PDFs of (at least some of) the scores of these songs. Downloading is simply an alternative to transcribing by hand...both will save to one of the 8 save slots. In fact, it's likely using the exact same protocol as for transferring custom Band Bros. songs among game DS systems.
Sadly, this means those songs will have the same limitations found in any other custom song.
Sorry, I haven't read much about Band Bros. My mind was on the track of like, you know, DDR and Donkey Konga song lists. That kind of thing.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 25, 2005, 04:30:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Robotor
I think this would work great with the Play-Yan. It could act as a little harddrive saving the extras and new data. The characters wouldn't even have to be preprogammed in, the game would just need the capability for added characters. You could save the demos onto the flash card, and when you ran out of room on the card you could just dump it onto your computer, and put whatever you needed or wanted back onto the card. I'm sure some sort of secuirty tag could be applied onto the files to stop hackers. Not only this but you could go to Nintendo's website and download the demos onto your computer, then upload them to the card. This would provide for the internet distribution, instead of Wifi. You could also trade demo's with friends who couldn't get them.
But I think game stores offering the demos would be cool too. You would meet people with DS's and could play multiplayer, it would seriously bring out the communication feature. Even more so if the demos were multiplayer based. All in all I find it to be a great idea, it just needs to be expanded a little bit.
A nice thought but you said why it wouldn't work yourself. Hackers would be all over it, and no "tag/protection" would be able to stop them. Physical restrictions work best ala the cube. Why? There too smart...really they are. Any added help by Nintendo would be horrendous. Actually, I think the hackers are going to get the DS online before Nintendo (which to me isn't odd with how long Nintendo is taking.......don't even mention DemaSked).
Anyways, don't be surprised if Ian rants......he's the devil's advocate of sorts and helps us think (continuously) about why Nintendo is losing in the market they created. So Ian, keep doing what your doing. In a way it's good for us. (Did I say that?! :0) IMO this is a good move, but really like Ian said, unless this goes on-line it doesn't differ much from what we get today. Also, I like that "viral" type of transfer, it's better than on-line downloading....it would help bring up the DS in more conversations, thus more talk "advertising" for Nintendo. I know what your thinking "no it won't", but really it will. People talking about anything, then "hey, you played that new demo _____" -- "No, no, I haven't" -- "You serious! it's freaking sweet. Here check it out *whips out DS*, let me use my pda features for a second (for the love of god please). You got your DS, cuase I could just put it on yours." -- "Actually I do".................you know the rest.
It would be even better with multiplayer demos like MP: Hunters. Or maybe even multiplayer games that will be made for the DS. So you could download the multiplayer pack you need to play, but if the DS with the game senses that you have an accessory to hold information (and your DS would tell the other DS that) it would download a single player demo for you to play later, and ultimately keep it on your mind. Maybe, when the DS evovle's, it could have a feature that comes with that information-storing accessory (or the first time you take it online) that organizes a list of games that you do have, so you don't keep downloading the single player since you already have the game, or don't want it period (two different options). Also, it could be used to instantly update the games you do have, instead of searching your system information or you telling the service the game names; both which take time. I don't know I'm putting to much thought into this. *uses generic celebration* YaY Nintendo!
Post by: The Omen on February 25, 2005, 04:59:37 PM
Quote
I'll stop complaining when Nintendo stops being a restrictive stubborn jerk all the time and others stop defending them for being so. Most of my "complaining" is directly related to others being all "Nintendo is perfect in every way so don't criticize anything they do ever."
You should keep complaining. Nintendo is F'ing up again.
Quote
I'm going to have to agree with Hostile and say stop complaining. Those little game carts cost money. Nintendo doesn't like to give up money. Most companies don't. Plus, what are the chances we'll see widely available PSP demos?
And why do you care if Nintendo decides to spend money? You have to spend to earn. That's just the truth. And since so many fanboys spout out how Nintendo makes the most money on their console, why shouldn't they lavish their very loyal fans with freebies? And yes, I see the PSP doing everything Nintendo won't, including demos. Sony has never been afraid to lose money short term. Nintendo ONLY thinks for the short term. Sony is an aggressive company. Nintendo has done absolutely nothing to gain ground. Yes they make money, but being a consumer, why should I cheer for that? I cheer for product...
Post by: Caillan on February 25, 2005, 05:56:15 PM
Quote
What I do think is a majority, however, are people who are tired of hearing news that is optimistic only to know that what is coming is a post from you ranting about what is wrong with said announcement and how Nintendo sucks and on and on.
I don't think so. The logic is always outlined. The rants are well written, and they are nicer to read than fanboys praising Nintendo when they give up money to please consumers, and praising them again when they refuse to match their competition to save money. They never insult other members or otherwise screw up the forums by starting flamewars or anything, and last of all they are not always negative as you imply.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 25, 2005, 06:29:52 PM
I'd like an explanation, for example, of how Nintendo is f'ing up. You say in the next paragraph that you want freebies. Well, that's what they're f'ing doing, so what exactly is the goddamn problem?
Demos could come out in the future. I think demos are a waste of money. I don't give a crap about them, and no one I have ever talked to bought a game solely because of a demo disc (I'm sure some do, just no one I know well). They're all nice and good, but they're definitely over-rated. Maybe not even worth the cost it takes to make them, even in the long run. But I'm not sure, and you've got to face it and admit that you're not either. I don't think Sony got its success from demo discs.
Nintendo may release them. This is certainly a step in the right direction. So for now, stop your damn bitching.
Post by: Nephilim on February 25, 2005, 06:56:30 PM
The final fantasy 8 demo which has all the summons at the start of the game, which came out like 6months before its release got alot of people buzzing..sure might not be a big deal these days, since u can download a 10min in game movie from most games in 5mins on broadband. same for the orginal crash games, I think the early demo's got alot of people into the game, before it became mainstream.
someone brought up wifi router again, seriously think people are going to buy a new moderm just to download demo's?
I think it would only be a small percent, much on the scale of the people who used warppipe and such
Post by: Caillan on February 25, 2005, 07:34:44 PM
Quote
But I'm not sure, and you've got to face it and admit that you're not either. I don't think Sony got its success from demo discs.
From experience, I know that demo discs are popular among kids and young teenagers. I think this is because they usually get a console for christmas and can only get one or two games a year from that point on. They are too young to get a job and earn enough money to buy games. Of course, this is probably prevailant only among a certain income group.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 25, 2005, 08:56:56 PM
I have no problem with them posting and stating their opinion. It's the fact that even if Nintendo did release a demo disc, with plenty of awesome demos on it, all they would do even then is complain. They wouldn't even stop to say thanks, good idea. They could have some respect and not just whine, it's really annoying as it is.
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 25, 2005, 10:18:18 PM
It's an option. It's better than what they've done so far.
You can complain about lack of demos in another thread.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 26, 2005, 12:36:44 PM
Until then, I think it's a nice offering. Playing games for free is always a good thing. If you really want to get militant about keeping the demos, I'm sure there will be a hack to let you do it. But I can appreciate that publishers might prefer the implicit time limit placed on these demos. Of course, since the DS has a sleep mode that can keep it powered up for several days at a time, AND it can be kept plugged into the wall to stay powered indefinitely, the only thing really forcing you to dump the demo is when you want to play a different game on your DS. Boo hoo.
Post by: vudu on February 28, 2005, 07:43:00 AM
QuoteMy sentiments exactly. Demo discs rarely sell games. They're nice to have, especially if you can get them several weeks or months before the full game is released, but as a selling tool, their power is diminishing. Because there are so many previews/reviews/in-depth coverage, etc on just about every single game available, most people can decide which games they will like and which they won't just by doing a little research on the Internet. Demo discs might have been useful tool several years ago, but they've been replaced by cheaper, readily-available means.
I was saying from my experience no one plays demo discs that much, and hardly anyone purchases a game because of them.
Post by: ruby_onix on February 28, 2005, 12:58:47 PM
Things like Nintendo Power (which REALLY needs some work) and demo discs are a good thing in that they build a sense of "involvement" and "community". You feel like you're a part of something.
IMO, Nintendo needs these things. You need to do more than sell good games. You need to make the entire experience of owning a console "fun".
Nintendo hasn't really been very good at this lately. Back to the original topic, these downloadable demos are a step in the right direction, but I really hope that Nintendo isn't "satisfied" with just that.
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 28, 2005, 01:04:02 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on March 01, 2005, 09:02:53 AM
