Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 13, 2005, 04:18:39 AM
Playing By Party Lines
Post by: Famicom on January 13, 2005, 06:58:54 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 13, 2005, 07:10:00 AM
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What's the likelihood Nintendo's next big game is going to star a super-powerful woman? Probably not so good. Alas, will videogames be permanently populated by helpless, girly girls?
Well now here's an interesting comment. Maybe Nintendo don't release their next big game starring a super powerful women is because... women don't even care or buy the games. When is the next big game starring super-powerful going to arrive... how about March or somewhere around then?
I'm really annoy that even Nintendo fans ignore Nintendo's own epic strategy role playing game, Fire Emblem. FE7 released in 2003 starred a women. Now, FE8 coming later this year also stars a female lead. Eirik, like Lyndis, takes on the important role right from the start. They're not the love interest of the main hero only to join later in the game. They start out right there, right now, kicking the crap out of everything in sight.
Sure, there are a few damsels that needs saving in Fire Emblem, but the amount of all powerful women far outweights the damsels in distress. Most of the women in Fire Emblem makes Samus look tame. Tell Nintendo to release more Fire Emblem games if you want super-powerful women. There's probably enough super-powerful women in the entire Fire Emblem series to rival the number of Pokemon.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 13, 2005, 07:18:05 AM
I'm the same way! ^_^
Post by: mantidor on January 13, 2005, 07:39:44 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2005, 07:55:00 AM
For those that say female fighting game characters are too weak play Mortal Kombat II where Mileena just crushes everyone.
The main reason that there aren't that many strong female characters in games is because in most games those characters aren't designed for women to play as, they're designed for men to oogle at. Note how most female game characters are babes. The reason for this obviously is because guys play games more than girls and most games are designed by men.
Plus I find that in general that women are more interested in traditional male interests than men and interested in traditional female interests. Sports is a traditional male interest yet you'll have no problem finding girls who like playing sports. However with something more traditionally female like clothing you'll have a harder time finding men interested. This isn't just with games it's with virtually all forms of entertainment. Girls like girl stuff and guy stuff, guys only like guy stuff. So in order to appeal to the widest demographic and make the most money you're better off making guy stuff.
Post by: NiGHTS on January 13, 2005, 08:05:56 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 13, 2005, 08:09:03 AM
I don't see many games with character selection defining the females as weak. Well, unless you mean that as in "weak but quick". They're usually as good or even better than the male characters because they usually have the speed advantage. It's pretty rare that you see a slow but strong female character, definitely nothing like Astaroth, Bowser or Potemkin.
For singleplayer games, yes, the females are often the damsels in distress and don't do much on their own because it's a cliché "knight in shining armor rescues the princess" storyline. Toadstool and Zelda were damsels in distress when they first appeared and weren't designed to have an active role in any game, they are made to be weak and in need of a hero, not to star in their own games. Tetra from Windwaker would be a counterexample: Because N didn't want to have Zelda participate while being the damsel in distress they gave her two "personalities" with one being the damsel in distress and the other one being the "bad ass" pirate who rescues the hero more often than the other way around. Expanding upon Zelda and Mario was a mistake in regards to their characters, neither Zelda nor Peach (nor Link nor Mario) were designed for filling a more complex role and neither fits into modern games that demand more elaborate characters.
Post by: NiGHTS on January 13, 2005, 08:11:31 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2005, 08:20:33 AM
That makes sense logical due to the obvious physical differences between men and women. You could have some super powerhouse Chyna-like female character in a game but if there's going to be some huge mammoth powerhouse it logically makes more sense for it to be male since in real life that's the more likely scenario.
Though I think a Chyna-like character would be a good fit for a fighting game. It would be a refreshing change from the usual cliche fighting game characters.
Post by: Pale on January 13, 2005, 08:44:34 AM
QuoteI had to stop reading there because of the fact that Sheik/Zelda rocks so much. I challenge anyone to beat me at a 1 on 1 smash bros. match where I play as sheik.
Originally posted by: NiGHTS
hahaha, she must be a noob female melee player. if she new anything about melee at all she would know that sheik (a GIRL!) is one of the top tier characters! and princess peach is a high playing character. shiek can beat anybody. people are still debating whether she is the best character in the game. i don't know what kind of tournament she went to but if she were to go to a REAL tournament she would find that the majority of people will be playing as sheik. it is hard to acknowledge this editorial since it is mainly based on opinion. there is no hard evidence or even a small survey done to confirm her point. this obviosly only took about an hour to write.
Post by: RadicalKelsi on January 13, 2005, 09:08:06 AM
And as for girl characters mainly being "weaker" that is not entirely true, as like a few of you have already siad, characters like sheik are awesome. Also, many games make male characters stronger and female characters quicker, because it reflects reality a little more closely. Plus, it would be boring if all characters were made entirely equal.
Post by: odifiend on January 13, 2005, 09:11:37 AM
But zelda's aerial lightning kick can take anybody, anyway.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 13, 2005, 09:58:23 AM
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Originally posted by: NiGHTS
hahaha, she must be a noob female melee player. if she new anything about melee at all she would know that sheik (a GIRL!) is one of the top tier characters! and princess peach is a high playing character. shiek can beat anybody. people are still debating whether she is the best character in the game. i don't know what kind of tournament she went to but if she were to go to a REAL tournament she would find that the majority of people will be playing as sheik. it is hard to acknowledge this editorial since it is mainly based on opinion. there is no hard evidence or even a small survey done to confirm her point. this obviosly only took about an hour to write.
Editorials are, by definition, opinion pieces. Lay off the personal insults or you will be banned.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 13, 2005, 10:02:45 AM
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Originally posted by: odifiend
Zelda physically transforms into a man to become shiek, doesn't she? Bill?
Zing...
Post by: mantidor on January 13, 2005, 10:48:30 AM
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Originally posted by: NiGHTS
hahaha, she must be a noob female melee player. if she new anything about melee at all she would know that sheik (a GIRL!) is one of the top tier characters! and princess peach is a high playing character. shiek can beat anybody. people are still debating whether she is the best character in the game. i don't know what kind of tournament she went to but if she were to go to a REAL tournament she would find that the majority of people will be playing as sheik. it is hard to acknowledge this editorial since it is mainly based on opinion. there is no hard evidence or even a small survey done to confirm her point. this obviosly only took about an hour to write.
it wouldve be better if you actually took the time to read the article, as she expresses, Sheik is such a bad ass character because she changed her identity, as we all remember no one expected Shiek to be a woman, much less princess Zelda, which implies in some way that as a woman she's weak.
Post by: bonnieruberg on January 13, 2005, 11:02:24 AM
To respond to some of your concerns... Well, let's go down the line.
Famicon - you've never put much thought into the issue because you're a guy, and as such part of the gender majority, therefore there's no reason (except general interest) you would be thinking about it. As a girl, it's good, and interesting, to address these things.
Ian Sane - yup, (almost) every videogame girl's a babe. Maybe that's not a problem if you're guys looking at her, but when you're trying to identity with her, it gets strange. And why can't guys like girls things, but girls can like guy things? That's a whole other social issue.
Terrinigma Freak - if you think no women care about or buy videogames, you're living in a hole. The girl gamer world may be small, but we're growing, no thanks to guys who stereotype women.
Bill Aurion - I think you're awesome.
KDR-11k - yes, weak but quick. Not weak like bad, weak like weak.
To everyone complaining that there ARE good women characters - well, duh, there are always exceptions. And certain characters, like Peach, may be strong in one games and presented as weak in a dozen others. No one, especially not me, is saying there are NO strong female characters. If that's what you're concerned with you're missing the point.
If you have any comments on the editorial or girl gaming in general, to write to me at bonnie@planetgamecube.com and strike up a constructive chat on the subject. Also, feel free to write to me and let me know about girl gamer issues you'd rather see addressed, if you feel unsatisfied with this one. Otherwise thanks for reading the editorial.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on January 13, 2005, 12:02:24 PM
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Zelda physically transforms into a man to become shiek, doesn't she? Bill?
Nope, its just a disguise, Sheik is refered to as a girl.
Besides you can tell by the voice and the body structure that Sheik is female.
Post by: DoAsInfinity67 on January 13, 2005, 12:31:36 PM
At least there are women that are cool and kickass in games nowadays. So at least it's progressing. Homosexual guys in games are still horrible stereotypes, if they're in there at all that is.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 13, 2005, 12:46:12 PM
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Originally posted by: Avinash_TyagiQuote
Zelda physically transforms into a man to become shiek, doesn't she? Bill?
Nope, its just a disguise, Sheik is refered to as a girl.
Besides you can tell by the voice and the body structure that Sheik is female.
What? Sheik is only refered to as a girl in Melee because Zelda and Sheik are known as one...Before her identity was revealed, her alter-ego definitely was playing as a male...
Post by: ruby_onix on January 13, 2005, 12:48:47 PM
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...Sheik is such a bad ass character because she changed her identity, as we all remember no one expected Shiek to be a woman, much less princess Zelda, which implies in some way that as a woman she's weak.
I was always under the impression that Zelda (in OoT) was more powerful as Zelda than as Sheik. Sheik was Zelda restrained, so that Gannon wouldn't take notice of her. Also, as Zelda she was "too dignified" for the hands-on approach that Sheik took. Perhaps more people need to re-evaluate what they see as "strength".
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Nope, its just a disguise, Sheik is refered to as a girl.
Magical disguise. How deep did it run? Was she still Zelda underneath, and may have been physically attracted to Link? Or did she become male, in body and spirit, and develop homosexual feelings for Link? Or was Sheik just an effeminate guy, with a warrior's camaraderie with Link? And how much of any of those feelings did she retain? We'll never know. That mystery is part of the appeal of Sheik.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 13, 2005, 12:56:35 PM
My take on it was that it was merely a cosmetic change (with spiritual shield hiding her power)...For one to change in body and spirit, you'd think they would also lose all memories of their original self during that switch, which is not the case...Unless Hyrule magic is just like that...But I'm not going to think about it that way...
Post by: gally on January 13, 2005, 12:59:56 PM
Anyway, I do have a real problem with people who refuse to play as a member of the opposite sex. I have no problem playing as a girl or woman if I happen to like the character, and I've felt that way since I was an elementary schooler.
I'm always happy when a girl character is popular with boys, especially if it's based on the character being interesting, and NOT on sex appeal (i.e. Punky Brewster, for instance). It shows an ability to exit from the defined roles that one can only like one's own gender or identify with one's own gender. On a side note, I do think acceptance of homosexuality will help heterosexuals be able to admit to identifying with the opposite sex more.
I would like to see a girl character who is a mixture of "girly" and "strong" - i.e., uniquely human. In other words, she shows fear, but acts brave. Not a "badass", not a wimp, but a hero trying to fight the odds. Heck, I'd like to see a *girl* character, even, not just a woman. Remember Little Nemo the Dream Master, in which a boy who looked to be around 7 years old saved the dream world? Maybe make a girl hero like that.
What do you all think?
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 13, 2005, 01:19:38 PM
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When you spot a girl confidently picking up a controller, it makes you go all fuzzy inside.
Absolute truth.
I personally have no problem playing as a female character in any game. Peach pwned in Mario Kart 64, and was only replaced with Toadette in Double Dash!! Taki from Soul Calibur is my favorite character, followed by Cassandra (well, Link's my fav of course, but I don't play with him that much ^_^). And although she wasn't THE main character in ToS, Sheena is positivley awesome. I PREFER playing as female characters in alot of games because they're usually quick, which fits my style (Sheik, although she's not my best Melee character, certainly holds her own in the fray). As for being weak, they may inflict less damage per hit, but it mainly depends on the person controlling them. Which is of course what this editorial's about. What.
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So, they set her up with Jigglypuff and, needless to say, she cutely jumped herself off the playing field and cutely floated to her doom enough times to use up four cute lives without receiving a single point of damage.
Hilarity
Post by: SgtShiversBen on January 13, 2005, 01:40:17 PM
Post by: Nemo4ever on January 13, 2005, 01:47:42 PM
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On the one hand, lots of guy gamers feel like girl characters are meant for the girls. They think that they're wimpy.
I think guys like that fall into the more "casual" category of gamer. I'm a huge Street Fighter fan and if I'm playing somebody who refuses to pick a girl, I know this isn't going to be a very fun match and I likely won't play them again. In a game where your character has little bearing on how the game plays or how you perform (i.e. FPS) I can see why a guy might avoid using a female character as it adds little to the experience. Otherwise, they're just missing out. I honestly have no patience for that kind of attitude.
As for the characters you pick, I say screw it. Pick your favorite or best characters and play like you would any other time. I personally despise doing anything other than what I would naturally do in a situation. It makes me feel fake and unnatural. I think your goal in any gaming situation is to get the guys to respect you and your skills as much as they respect each other's.
However, you're going to have to contend with stereotypes about girl gamers no matter what. Most girls aren't serious gamers and we guys are used to having to take it easy on them. The best you can do is just go into the situation with a good attitude and, if need be, inform the guys that, at least as far as the game is concerned, you're a player first and a girl second.
If you want to see the opposite of the stereotypical "quick, but weak" female character, check out Makoto in Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike. Not only is the girl quick, but she's got some real oomph to her combos. Watching a high-level player use Makoto is thrilling.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 13, 2005, 02:02:52 PM
I often use female characters, too, but like a woman can relate to females, I, being a guy, tend to relate to guys. I usually use Marth in Smash Bros, but Zelda/Sheik is the next runner-up.
As for adventure games, I don't find women to be overly feminine, and I think the editorial over-exaggerates the incapability of Peach and Zelda. In OoT, Zelda helps you out plenty (granted, as Sheik most of the time, but it is her), and in WW she's the tough Tetra (though as a princess she's more meek, but I'd be a bit stunned if I found out I was a princess, too).
Peach, less so. However, her role is not always that of the simple damsel in distress. In the Paper Marios she is captured, yes, but she assists Mario in every way she can, taking many risks. It is very reserved, but Peach isn't exactly the best example for tough gal extroardinaire anyway. Just wanted to point out she isn't a total wimp
Someone mentioned Fire Emblem. That's undoubtedly the best representation of girls I've seen in video games, surpassing stereotpyical princess or typical RPG girls (Aeris, Tifa, whoever from FFX) and not so far off the scale of bad-assness as Samus (who is pretty much tougher than any of Nintendo's male heroes).
Anyway, I just delved far too deeply into the idea of female characters in video games, and I'm feeling a bit ridiculous (not because they're girls, but because they're video games, mind you), so I'm off to study French.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on January 13, 2005, 02:29:26 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2005, 02:38:27 PM
Peach is absolutely deadly in Super Smash Bros. Melee.
And Daisy is an undoubtedly incredible player in Mario Power Tennis.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on January 13, 2005, 02:38:32 PM
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What? Sheik is only refered to as a girl in Melee because Zelda and Sheik are known as one...Before her identity was revealed, her alter-ego definitely was playing as a male
Pretending to be a male and actually being one are two different things Bill, Zelda was pretending to be one.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on January 13, 2005, 02:40:12 PM
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Magical disguise. How deep did it run? Was she still Zelda underneath, and may have been physically attracted to Link? Or did she become male, in body and spirit, and develop homosexual feelings for Link? Or was Sheik just an effeminate guy, with a warrior's camaraderie with Link? And how much of any of those feelings did she retain? We'll never know. That mystery is part of the appeal of Sheik.
Of course we know, it already states it in the Sheik description, Zelda magically alters her clothes, hair and Eye color, but still remains a girl.
FYI: this isn't new in terms of japanese style animation, in anime cartoons there are repeated examples of girls masquerading as guys and vice versa.
Post by: NiGHTS on January 13, 2005, 02:58:12 PM
it wouldve be better if you actually took the time to read the article, as she expresses, Sheik is such a bad ass character because she changed her identity, as we all remember no one expected Shiek to be a woman, much less princess Zelda, which implies in some way that as a woman she's weak.
I did read the article but either way when zelda transforms all she is really doing is changing her clothes and maybe adding some hair spray. it does not make her a man or anything.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 13, 2005, 03:11:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Avinash_TyagiQuote
What? Sheik is only refered to as a girl in Melee because Zelda and Sheik are known as one...Before her identity was revealed, her alter-ego definitely was playing as a male
Pretending to be a male and actually being one are two different things Bill, Zelda was pretending to be one.
You aren't getting it ;_;...I was saying that she was pretending to be male...(playing as male = acting as male = Zelda cosplaying as male) From your quote you made it seem as if Zelda was cosplaying as a female... (Sheik is refered to as a girl. Besides you can tell by the voice and the body structure that Sheik is female.) See?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2005, 03:30:55 PM
Don't tell me Zelda broadened her shoulders, increased the muscular size and definition in her arms, and gained Bowflex-quality pecs and abs by putting on a catsuit. She's using her Triumph Fork to modify her physique as well as physical capability. It's beyond cosplay [or the ultimate cosplay?].
Refer to Super Smash Bros. Melee and Ocarina of Time, and SSBM's trophy mode for anatomical comparisons. Sheik and Zelda move and behave very differently. Frankly, I'm interested in seeing Zelda jump around like a Sheikah ninja in her usual princess' garb, but it just doesn't happen.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 13, 2005, 03:35:18 PM
)
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 13, 2005, 03:38:12 PM
Dur.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 13, 2005, 03:40:50 PM
"It's not your Princess. It's a MAN, BABY!!"
Post by: oohhboy on January 13, 2005, 03:56:02 PM
I also have a kick ass time playing CS with her since she is more than good enough to hold her own plus some against 75% of the players out there.
But from what i have gathered, this is the conclusion I have arrived at. Your gamer or your not regardless if your gender. I have met girls who will play games, but no matter what can't win.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on January 13, 2005, 04:26:18 PM
Something that does bug me to no end is the type of games that are marketed directly to girls. WHY is it thought that girls want trash such as the Mary-Kate and Ashley games, Barbie or So Raven. It disgusts me to see "Real Games for Real Girls" on the boxes to that crap.
Post by: Djunknown on January 13, 2005, 04:36:20 PM
At my 'local' arcade, I usally see girls mixin' it up at DDR, but are far away from SNK Vs Capcom. They're pretty damn good too.
As mentioned earlier, female characters in fighting games kick as much ass as their male counterparts. 'Nuff said.
My only interaction with a girl gamer was at gamestop a few years ago, she was a knowledgeable associate who reccomended many fine games to me. She wasn't a pushy salesperson either, so she got a lot of my business when she worked there.
But in the end, I'd like to belive its all about the skills. I don't think the buttons discriminate the person pushing them.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on January 13, 2005, 04:41:14 PM
Women.
silks
Post by: armedalliance on January 13, 2005, 04:53:06 PM
Right now she's working on Baten Kaitos, Wild ARMs 3, Final Fantasy X, Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (GB verison) and Star Ocean III. I'm probably forgetting something, but she's doing pretty good considering. I don't think I've ever been that behind on my collection before. I'm used to beating game in less than a week... some of the easier games in two days. Baten Kaitos took me 6 days (48 hours) to complete. I slacked off one of the days though because I was tired and expected to get into the game with no problems. I put it down 20 minutes in because I was bored and overcomplicated it. Currently I'm working on Lord of the Rings: The Third Age on GC and Super Mario 64 DS. I'm also playing through Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past for my 6th time now but (yay me). Hope this post interested someone... if not... *fake-cries*
Post by: Renny on January 13, 2005, 05:42:13 PM
"When you spot a girl confidently picking up a controller, it makes you go all fuzzy inside."
I think we all identify with this. ;¬]
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on January 13, 2005, 07:56:24 PM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 14, 2005, 05:28:14 AM
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Terrinigma Freak - if you think no women care about or buy videogames, you're living in a hole. The girl gamer world may be small, but we're growing, no thanks to guys who stereotype women.
What in the world are you talking about? I was mainly complaining that Nintendo fans(male or female) ignores Nintendo's own franchises with strong female characters. It has nothing to do with whether or not women buy games. It's whether or not Nintendo fans buy Nintendo's games.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on January 14, 2005, 07:57:11 AM
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Don't tell me Zelda broadened her shoulders, increased the muscular size and definition in her arms, and gained Bowflex-quality pecs and abs by putting on a catsuit. She's using her Triumph Fork to modify her physique as well as physical capability. It's beyond cosplay [or the ultimate cosplay?].
Doubtful, in OoT we see very little that shows she has any expanded physical abilities while Sheik
In addition her gait in OoT doesn't look right for a guy (Women have a larger pelvic area)
Voice isn't a guy's voice it sounds faked (you hear her scream when she gets thrown while they are at the well)
As for her muscle structure simple explanation, molded plate under her costume combined with taping down her breasts.
As for the differences in SSBM, well you have to give her some moves in that game that were not in OoT otherwise her character would be a really poor fighter.
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If Zelda has the magical ability to change the physical characterstics of her hair and eyes instantly, she can change other physical things as well. Sheik is a man.
That's a logical fallacy, first you assume that changing gender is as simple as changing appearance when there is nothing to back that up, then you state that because of that it must be that she changed her gender, again nothing to back that up.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 14, 2005, 08:29:09 AM
What's your point? Sheik has virtually no pelvic area.
If you recall, when she changes back to Zelda there's sparkles and magical crap, so it's not so wrong to suggest that she altered her physique magically without actually changing her gender. That would explain how she looked, how she sounds, so everyone can stop whining.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on January 14, 2005, 09:53:16 AM
Post by: SgtShiversBen on January 14, 2005, 09:56:43 AM
arguing about Sheik's gender. I have no opinion on it because I thought that Sheik was a guy, but when I found out it was Zelda in a sort of "drag" I never gave it a second thought.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 14, 2005, 03:54:27 PM
The sway of a woman's hips is an idiosyncracy that wouldn't disappear even after a change in physique. At that point in your life it's hardly physical, it's more mental than anything. And Sheik has hips, all people do, but they're not that wide.
Post by: the offical jim on January 14, 2005, 04:32:43 PM
Response to the “The amount of girl gamers is growing.”
Well of coarse it’s growing as long as the population is. I think the way gaming companies have started making more mature titles has driven girls away from games. And the fact that games are starting to get more complicated. Not that girls aren’t capable of them.
My sister always plays as a girl in games. If I ever play her it’s either Timespliters 2 or Red fraction 2. She doesn’t like it when I kill her so we play on a team.
The Next Super Powerful Girl Game:
Well if a game is directed towards girls they make it clear by putting colors that appeal to girls as well as girls from popular girl shows.
Now if there where to be one of these girl games... What would you want them to be like?
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on January 14, 2005, 06:29:32 PM
And yes, Daisy rocks Mario Power Tennis.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2005, 09:36:08 PM
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Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
Actually she does, and you can see it in her gait as she walks, that's part of my point.
And as I said before you can't use SSB as a guideline...The two were separated to give them each a distinct feel...As Sheik does not have the "ninja pose walk thingie" in OoT, you cannot use this as part of your argument...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 15, 2005, 03:03:55 AM
I use SSBM as part of my argument since I believe its 3D models are detailed re-presented versions of Nintendo characters in some of their classic forms, with Ocarina of Time's characters as our current focus. So, the way SSBM presents Zelda and Sheik is the way I believe Ocarina of Time intended to show us, and the ol' hand-drawn character art can support this. I can let it slide that Sheik doesn't have to be a 100% man, that is, he/she/it/Birdo might as well lack the "Master Sword" and "Deku Nuts" of sorts, which can explain the female-like voicing. But, I still believe Princess Zelda does undergo a magickal transformation thanks to the power of the Triumph Spork of Wisdom and Witness Protection, to yield a more "manly" upper-body and developed biceps. Again, refer to SSBM's (trophy #2 for each character) character models.
Even if we DISREGARD Super Smash Bros. Melee, Princess Zelda's behavior between the two THE GANNON battles cannot be ignored. As Sheik, she seemed much more jumpy and acrobatic, falling from the sky, chilling in high places, jumping off high places. As TEH Purinsesu Zeruda, she portrayed the simple, helpless, slow, immovable-object we been accustomed to defend. YET SHE SIMPLY POWER-WALKS WHILE THE GANNON'S FORTRESS WAS CRUMBLING. What in Zephos' name happened to her ninja-like (REAL ULTIMATE POWER!) reflexes? Was she hindered by her Royal Hylian footwear? And what's with the OH MY ZEPHOS I'M TRAPPED IN A WALL OF FIRE please rescue me Xandir! situations. AREN'T YOU LIKE THE SAGE OF TIME OR SOMETHING I SAW YOU MAKE YOUR OWN DAMN WALL OF FIRE BACK IN FRONT OF FIRE TEMPLE SEVERAL SAVES AGO AFTER YOU TOUGHT ME THAT ROCKIN' OCARINA MELODY THIS SHOULD BE CHEESECAKE FOR YOU!
It's as if Zelda's attitude and athleticism changes *with her body.*
And no, your little DragonBall moment after the final FINAL battle doesn't count for anything.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on January 15, 2005, 05:02:48 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on January 15, 2005, 08:28:07 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on January 15, 2005, 08:30:01 AM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on January 16, 2005, 01:41:52 AM
Post by: Kaboth on January 17, 2005, 12:47:54 AM
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Almost as scarce as female gamers are legitimate female characters. Sure, you'll find at least one girl in every Nintendo game, but, like the girl who claims to be a gamer but really only plays PC puzzle games, they're usually pretty weak
How about Joanna Dark? She was certainly a strong, smart female lead. Her dress sense was generally appropriate to the situation as well; waiter discuises, combat fatigues, trench coats, scuba gear etc. She seemed to show genuine emotion complete with Bond style glib remarks. Though you could argue Dr Carrol acted more human. She didn't make sexual remarks nor overly flaunt her sexuality excusing of course the promotional material. Her hair was cut realistically short too. Joanna may be the most credible female lead in a game ever.
As for Samus, when I first heard about Metroid I thought the powersuit was Metroid which was a sort of robot/mech thing. I didn't realise untill I played the games that a human is inside the powersuit least of all a woman. Samus has no humanity at all, I'm sure any psciatrist who saw a woman blowing up entire space pirate bases without any emotion diagnose the patient was totally insane
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 17, 2005, 10:12:07 AM
So no, she's not exactly the epitome of heroine, but she sometimes shows sentiment.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 17, 2005, 10:43:11 AM
But you can hardly expect to see much emotion from someone who is fighting hostile lifeforms that want her dead...
Post by: Bloodworth on January 17, 2005, 11:07:55 AM
Post by: Kaboth on January 17, 2005, 01:33:10 PM
I'm up to Emperor Ing in MP2 and yes Samus appeared quite emotional about the dead federation troopers and that was all quite good but it really irked me when U-mos would give you some instructions and Samus didn't really respond in any manner verbal or non-verbal. U-mos himself was completely devoid of personality also. Still its a great game and I love it.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 17, 2005, 03:48:23 PM
*gag*
Post by: Kaboth on January 18, 2005, 11:32:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
"Mario is a character for kids"
*gag*
Well he is, Thats who he was designed for. Doesn't mean adults such as myself can't enjoy playing his games though especially when the challenge of his most recent ones seems more aimed at adults.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 18, 2005, 11:49:39 AM
I'm thankful for this...Samus is much like Link, in that the gamer is supposed to play the one behind the mask...It would take away from that immersion otherwise...
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 18, 2005, 02:21:47 PM
Quote
Well he is, Thats who he was designed for. Doesn't mean adults such as myself can't enjoy playing his games though especially when the challenge of his most recent ones seems more aimed at adults.
Alright, forgiven.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 19, 2005, 05:46:32 AM
Post by: odifiend on January 19, 2005, 02:00:02 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 19, 2005, 02:30:05 PM
Mario has overalls so the gamer could tell the arms were apart from the character's body (2-tone character model differentiates)...
Mario has a hat so the gamer wouldn't wonder why the character's hair didn't move while he ran...
Mario has a mustache so the gamer could tell the character had a mouth...
End...
Post by: KDR_11k on January 20, 2005, 04:58:02 AM
