Post by: codyy on December 04, 2004, 10:18:09 AM
P.s. Please read the mailbag at IGN first before answering.
http://ds.ign.com/mail.html
Post by: Michael8983 on December 04, 2004, 12:48:04 PM
If you think back, IGN and many other gaming sites didn't like the GBA either.
They said the system was poorly designed with no back-light and too few and small buttons. They also said the launch line-up sucked with a mere port of the worst Mario game ever being the only thing even standing out. There was essentially no hype generated by gaming sites at all. But that didn't stop the GBA from becoming one of the most successful products in history.
Post by: Switchblade Cross on December 04, 2004, 12:57:09 PM
And then Nintendo released the SP...
Post by: Artimus on December 04, 2004, 02:36:51 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on December 04, 2004, 07:31:39 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on December 04, 2004, 09:16:31 PM
Saying "I'll wait for more games to come" is one thing, saying "The DS sucks because it doesn't have any good games for launch" is another. Same information, different wording. Saying "Look what you idiots wrote us" would fit into MAD, where they have this tone going throughout the magazine but on IGN they should refrain from using insults. If they wanted to look professional, they wouldn't use such wording and if they wanted to ridicule their readers they should have taken completely illegible flame mails and posted them (The Register does that on a regular basis).
Post by: Caillan on December 04, 2004, 09:50:07 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on December 04, 2004, 10:57:56 PM
Hehe just kidding. You know, PGC does mailbags too, but we don't push for them on a regular basis so we don't seem to get (decent) bag questions. This IGN link really isn't much of a mailbag anyway, though. I find it odd that IGN would find it necessary to even address personal complaints in such a fashion--their posted opinions in actual reviews and impressions should be enough.
In general I think if a mailbag letter creates an urge to personally insult, it should be tossed. That said, I think the mailbag responses make some valid points. They would be better suited as a stand-alone editorial inspired by these letters than within a direct response, though. Reviews are individual opinions, and yes, North America is getting the shaft with its DS launch line-up.
I spent half an hour arguing with someone in the chatroom Friday about how Sonic Team has talent but can't polish its games regularly (me) versus every game they have made recently is brilliant (the other guy). We weren't getting anywhere, and I personally can't fathom why he loves Sonic Heroes so much, but he isn't an idiot for liking a game I think is bad. I just think he's wrong, personally ;-)
Craig TRIES to make the same point about opinions, but he hypocritically winds up insulting "the other guy" in the process of defending his site. Craig is a fair reviewer, and he shouldn't be criticized for being upset with a product he covers. I'm actually surprised he wrote and posted this very off-putting display. Billy managed to voice his disconent over the DS launch titles without using sarcasm towards readers who disagree. Craig shouldn't have posted anything on the site, but if he had he should have just said "Reviews are opinions. If you find yourself consistently disagreeing with the reviews here, look someplace else that more accurately reflects your taste in games."
I also become worried when I read about his duty not to blindly ignore the competition. While this is true, I tend to interpret the statement as "I'll consider the PSP when writing what I think of DS games," which could lead to "These graphics would have looked better on the PSP, 7.5!" I think Craig is above that, but I could be wrong.
Post by: Rhoq on December 05, 2004, 02:27:17 AM
Post by: codyy on December 05, 2004, 09:09:12 AM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on December 05, 2004, 09:44:55 AM
Post by: Djunknown on December 05, 2004, 03:39:55 PM
I'm pretty sure when the PS2 launched, they didn't go "OMG! Get TeH PS2!" with its weak launch. If they did, strike that previous statement.
As far as DS vs PSP, we'll find out here in North America when Sony's ready. While it seems they're scrambling to get things in order in Japan, I expect it'll be smooth sailing stateside. If it isn't... then many journalists will have to eat their words.
The DS can't slouch either. A gaming drought a la Gamecube will not bode well. They may be well over the million mark, but thats a million customers that need to be satiated with innovative games.
If nothing else, there's the standard hardcore gamer slogan: "This is what IGN we're talking about..."
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on December 05, 2004, 03:54:48 PM
Quote
The DS can't slouch either. A gaming drought a la Gamecube will not bode well.
There will not be a drought, precisely because of the weak U.S. launch. Nintendo planned things quite cleverly: the holiday rush will push DS sales, then they'll bring out the big guns next year with Wario Ware, (hopefully) Jam with the Band, Yoshi's Touch & Go and stronger 3rd party support (the Japanese games list proves good third party games are brewing).
Post by: Renny on December 05, 2004, 06:25:41 PM
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/076/076366p1.html
There is no doubt in our minds that the PlayStation2 has been over hyped. In fact, we're pretty sure we've helped build some of it.
Honest. Some of the devs, however, seemed a bit more optimistic.
"As for anti-aliasing, I don't foresee any problems with anti-aliasing on the system..."
All the news from March 2000. Very interesting microhistory.
Post by: Rancid Planet on December 05, 2004, 10:20:45 PM
"The DS is selling mainly because of the energized "gift-buying" time it's been released into. If Nintendo launched the system in March with the same exact line-up of games, I would bet that the numbers wouldn't even approach half the sell-through numbers it's receiving so far."
No joke? REALLY? Consoles sell better around Christmas time? Is that why systems USUALLY come out near Christmas? Is it? Huh?....what an asshat this guy is.
I don't know what's going on at IGN but their stance with the DS is clearly biased. And while I've had my problems with IGN in the past, I'd hardly call them a biased site. They usually tend to be fair in all of their coverage. I think this stems from them being a pro PSP site as oppossed to them actually hating the DS though. I guess they just want to make it clear to everyone that they "know" which system will be the coolest.
Post by: Tanuki Suit on December 06, 2004, 09:06:30 AM
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 06, 2004, 09:54:41 AM
Movie playback is a joke on the PSP, music playback isn't much when you compare it to whats already out and it gameplay aspect is cut short by weak battery life. Also, according to the new EGM issue, they did an article on the PSP and DS with pros and cons for each, one of the cons for the PSP was that most of its games had horrible graphics. So if the graphics of the PSP are its strongpoint, then what good is the system if most of its games look like ass.
In my opinion, the DS is not getting enough credit and the PSP is getting way too much.
Post by: Procession on December 06, 2004, 11:33:24 AM
IGN is a website, and I go there because I hear opinions over which games suck, and which games don't. OPINIONS. If their weren't opinions on a gaming site it would be pretty worthless. I don't see how systems should be excluded from opinions.
Some of the editors on IGN have expressed that PSP is a better system than the DS. I, for one, somewhat agree with them. I'm a Nintendo fan, but given the choice between a $185 system with PS2 quality graphics, MP3 playback and MP4 playback and a $150 system with slightly above Nintendo 64 graphics and two screens which frankly, I haven't seen used in a remotely compelling way I will choose the former. It's better value for money and I believe most people will see it that way too. That's an opinion. That's also all IGN is expressing, an opinion.
Think back to the root of the problem, it isn't the media so stop using it as a scapegoat. In my opinion it's Nintendo coming up with an inferior system to Sony and having a shockingly bad launch line-up. First impressions last.
Post by: kennyb27 on December 06, 2004, 12:41:41 PM
As for your assertion that IGN is simply expressing an opinion, what do you see us "ridiculous people" doing? And you, yourself, came in and asserted an opinion that I may not like, or agree with, but will respect (simply drop the ridiculous and "I'm greater than thou" attitude next time). Opinions are indeed a great thing, just don't be hypocritical about them.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 06, 2004, 02:10:39 PM
When you break things down though the DS is the clear cut better deal than the PSP. The DS and its features are only limited to the developers skills. The PSP features are limited by design. As I stated above, movie playback is a joke on PSP and shouldn't even be included in this discussion. Music playback is there but its really nothing to write home about and the PSP as a video game system is severly hindered by its battery consumption problems.
As for price, your comparin a 150 dollar DS with a demo to a 185 dollar system with no game and no memory card (2 essential ingredients for you to get anything out of your PSP, then also not includin a carry case to protect your investment) So basically, in reality, you are comparing a 150 dollar investment that you can automatically play right off the bat to a roughly 250 dollar investment (including game and memory stick).
I am a fan of video games, I play all the systems and own all of them. I am a nintendo fanboy at heart but I know when someone is being biased or not. Some of us Nintendo fanboys are being biased with the DS as you say but some of us have legitimate reasons to why the PSP isn't worth the amount of attention its getting. The problem alot of us are having is that the DS is gettin so much negative press and the PSP is gettin so much positive press given it hasnt even been released, its main problems have already been mentioned by sony themselves and its lineup is even worse than the DS's.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 06, 2004, 02:35:02 PM
It's not right to express your opinion if you work on site dedicated to a specific console when you will be continuously bashing it and saying how much better the competition is...It's absolute bullshit...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 06, 2004, 03:01:41 PM
Sad, indeed.
Post by: Darkheart on December 06, 2004, 03:49:06 PM
Quote
You people are ridiculous. Have you ever considered that perhaps you are a little bias towards the DS?
Well we are on a Nintendo fan based site, where as Ign is supposed to be all coverage for all systems........Of course your going to have a nintendo biased fan group on a nintendo fan site, I would hope that the sony maniacs are biased on their fan based sites.......
I dunno thats just me and how i take it
Post by: Strell on December 07, 2004, 07:15:52 PM
Right now it's not doing anything new, and since this is left SOLELY to the developers, there's a huge possibility that no one is going to do anything worthwhile.
What I'm hoping is that the DS gets tapped in the myriad ways that it has the potential to unleash - completely new game types and genres that could be spawned from the advent of two screens, touch play, and wireless capabilities. The sheer possibilities, given the correct nurturing, make me salivate in wonder. I can't imagine Miyamoto right now staring at the thing - he has to be jumping around madly in anxious glee.
But that's the problem entirely - the system is so innovative, there's a chance nothing good will come of it.
Think of it like the GBA-GC link. NO ONE did anything good with it outside of Nintendo. Four Swords Adventures is a marvelous game and a lot of fun, but outside of that, did any other companies do anything really worthwhile? Not really. Download a small game, unlock some sort of add-on "me too" device, etc. No one did anything great with it. Nintendo touted the capabilities of linking the two systems together, even going as far as to make it the showpiece at E3 '03, and no one cared except for Nintendo. And it was a card that only Nintendo had in their hand, and it had potential immeasureable.
And after all of that, we got a few games that, while showcasing the innovative capability of the link, ultimately come up short. They look dated and didn't do much to call attention to the Gamecube because...well, it really wasn't that impressive in the end.
And this is what I fear about the DS. Who is going to care about Madden on it if all you get to do with the touchscreen is pick a play? Or if all you get to do with 3D platformers is get an overhead map? Or if racers only have a map that lets you see positions and so on...
The answer is that NONE of those things do ANYTHING to help gameplay. In fact, they do so little to enhance gameplay that they might as well be negated. In essence, right now, we basically have a portable N64, and only a few games so anything truly different (Feel the Magic is one of the few exceptions, almost everything else is invalid and essentially "N64gametitle DS").
I'm not going to be happy with the DS if, in a year, we're getting the same thing that's available now, and unfortunately that problem lies ENTIRELY on how well the developers work. If everyone brings their games over but they do nothing special with them, and they merely want a peice of the portable pie (of which Nintendo holds some huge percentage...95% or something...you know what I meant), then they aren't going to do anything special. They'll just half-ass the game over to the DS because Nintendo has huge potential to make them money.
That's what happens with the GBA market already. We get Tekken and GTA on the GBA but not on the Gamecube for that exact reason. Hell, we get TONS of great mature games on the GBA that developers swear won't sell on the Cube. Castlevania comes to mind. Klonoa. Tons of RPGs. But none of them show up on the GC, and why? Beacuse why risk the money if you know you can sell 50K copies on a system with a userbase that's downright insane? The Gamecube won't get Castlevania because Konami is so convinced the game won't sell, and in a sense, they have every reason to beleive that. We get Metal Gear Twin Snakes and it tanks, when is an absolute gem of a game and would have sold well over a million on the PS2 or Xbox.
So we're going to get developer support, but so what if it's the same thing? Therefore....
The fundamental problem with the DS is that it's so innovative. It's going against a system that Sony knows they can work with. Throw a developer a portable system that's highly analogous to game design over the last 10 years - 3D platformers, etc - and they can pick it up and program something instantly. It may not be anything different, but who the hell cares so long as the developer is happy, makes money, and ultimately helps Sony sell a few systems? So you port Jak and Daxter to the system beceause it's easy and because it will sell. Nothing worthwhile about it in any sense of the word, but who cares? Sony can still tout that as a selling point.
Meanwhile you hand a developer the DS and tell them "This is the second coming of handheld gaming and it's going to make toast too," the developer looks at it and thinks "Nintendo won't care if I make...the Sims on it without anything special, or if I put my crappy racing game on it and show the map on the bottom screen...."
That's the problem.
It's easy for people to say the PSP will win because there's very little standing in the way of it succeeding in terms of certain factors - name recognition (Sony), graphics, nice screen, multimedia capability, developer support, etc. The main flaws with it are the battery life and the load times (although I'm almost positive the movable media and dead pixels are going to be nightmares). But so what if the system can get Metal Gear and Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy?
Meanwhile the DS is demanding that people think in new, creative ways on how to present games and how to play them, and I think that's going to be a kind of double-edged sword.
The problem is that you are asking people to work harder and to think in new ways.
You know, I work for tech support on the phone, and I'm really aware of how idiotic the majority of people are and how lazy everyone is. I can't imagine a super huge company like EA giving two sh*ts about the DS in terms of innovation, they just want money. Why break a routine that's going to make you money no matter what you do? They could do NOTHING with the touch screen, but "so what?" is what they think.
So how does Nintendo convince a company to take a chance and spend resources on something this innovative?
It's easy for me to get angry about the PSP because it does nothing new. I don't want to play an anemic version of a PS2 game. I don't want the handheld industry to go 3D. I don't want Sony to ruin another market and turn it into a race against Nintendo, one of the few companies left that's willing to put their balls on the line with new technology and innovation.
But that's what is going to happen and I can't stop it unless Nintendo makes the DS known to be a fun, great system, and that can't be done with only their support.
I fear the DS could be ahead of it's time. And I fear people are too lazy to support it properly. And I fear that the PSP, being so truly unextraordinary, will succeed because "golly gee it's purty" and because people just CAN'T imagine living without Gran Turismo on the bus.
As for IGN, they can go to hell. Different opinions are good and all, but don't work on a subject if you so blatantly dislike the product. Criticism and downright brutality are different things. That said, what I'm talking about - innovation - is what is where all the criticism comes from.
/ranting at work is fun
Post by: joshnickerson on December 08, 2004, 03:19:54 AM
Post by: Deguello on December 08, 2004, 07:10:25 AM
Just in case you forgot, EA is bloatware.
Post by: Savior on December 08, 2004, 09:38:18 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 08, 2004, 01:06:32 PM
I didn't buy one, and I told them there wasn't any compelling software and I'd rather spend my cash on GameCube games.
Post by: kennyb27 on December 08, 2004, 05:01:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Savior
I havent been to IGN recently did they report on the actual sales of the DS on Japan? According to Gamespot they were pretty good actually....
IGN just put it up recently.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on December 08, 2004, 10:11:28 PM
A system is never going to be used to it's full potential. And for the DS, I don't see it as a bad thing. The touch screen is offering people something they couldn't do before on a STRICT gaming system. Without the touch screen the DS is just like the PSP is, an MP3 player with wings. I'm not biased towards the PSP, I just see a point in having it when the games I do have for the PlayStation 2 aren't even fun while I'm at home, needless to say I wouldn't want them on the road. But I digress, I'm a sucker for gadgets. If I do end up liking it (or the media they use does have more functionality) then I probably will get it. The DS on the other hand is a complete difference (and some similarity) to me than I've ever had on a gaming portable. When I played MP: Hunters for the first time, it reminded me so much of unreal tournament that I was instantly sold on the fact that you get precision hits like the mouse. I also realized that with Mario 64 being ported that some of the greatest games (in my opinion would be a majority of N64 games) again with more detail. Not all of you like this idea though, but you know that's what the PSP is doing. The only problem is that the PSP is getting ports of games that are still being made (GTA, Ape Escape) and so on. They don't offer any new material other than taking it wireless. Heck, even their controller layout is the exact same. The GameCube and DS versions of Metroid so far are so different in comparison upon the fact that it is portable, more precise, different controls and other things.
I know I'm just ranting about how feeble the PSP is compared to the DS (You sly dog, you got my monologing), but that's what forums are for. Oh well, ever since it first came out (actually when they announced Animal Crossing for this bad mamma-jamma) I was sold. The PSP hasn't offered anything up yet that will make me dirty my pants like Nintendo did.
In conclusion, I would have to say that although their is a media bias towards the DS in favor of the PSP, who cares what the media thinks. Apparently the media thinks we're doing a bad job in Iraq (which we're not, just people don't like good news) and that Paris Hilton is one of the most interesting people of 2004. If you're going to care about what these people think, then you're worse off than them. Don't listen to what other people's opinions are, then you won't be yourself. As the great poet (and singer) Maynard James Keenan says, "Think for yourself."
Post by: whatadreamihad on December 10, 2004, 09:39:35 AM
The PSP is a great Multimedia device. But the DS is a completely new gaming device. Built in: Wi-Fi (Nin-Fi), microphone, touch screen, and a second screen. When have we ever seen something with these tools available to gamers and the creators of games?
I think there will truly be a new "revolution" in gaming via the Nintendo DS. Beginning with Feel the Magic. The use of both screens has been great for a first title. Use of both screens, touch screen, and microphone.
*Spoiler* Example the Parachute game where a bunch of skydivers jump out of a plane and you must enter the correct numbers to open their parachute. and even more original was the Candles where you actually blow on the "screen" (the microphone) and they blow out. I have also heard that there is a part where you have to yell to get the girls attention, so no matter where you are playing at the time (home, public place) you will have to raise your voice and people will definetely be turning around to find out what is going on. although this can be embarrassing it is something completely new. *Spoiler*
While you have better graphics on the PSP (judging from screen shots) than on the DS. The possibilities are endless on the DS while seemingly predictable on the PSP.
Peace,
Carlos
Post by: Draygaia on December 10, 2004, 05:40:04 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 11, 2004, 09:36:06 AM
I sent this to their mailbag, hopefully we see it sometime soon:
IGN has sunk to a freaking low. Yeah, I know you thought this ending last mailbag, but it didn't.
How could you guys be so IGNorant? Shouldn't you freaking work for a channel if you like it!? You're a freaking a-hole - all of you! Especially Juan! I mean...WTF were you thinking?
Nothing in the universe could change my position on the DS: it's Nintendo's masterpiece, and it deserves every last ounce of hype and praise. Too bad idiots like you IGNore the good and focus on the freaking bad.
You say: OMG nintando duzn't hahv ehnny why-fi yeht!
The truth: Maybe, but Square Enix, a huge leader in the online gaming business, is working with Nintendo to pull it off.
You say: nahuntndo iz sooch a cheatehr thay releaszed in teh hohliday saezohn
The truth: You're saying that smart financial marketing is cheating? If Nintendo could have their system, announced a year after the P*P, ready by now, so could Sony.
You say: haha ninhntndo sux0rz cuhaz der'z no microahpne uasage yet
The truth: Jam with the Band, or Band Brothers really pushes it...as you said. But you're acting like a mic is the only thing that sepparates Sony's system from Nintendo's...dual screens, touch screen, crisp (maybe not as crisp as your beloved P*P) graphics, and great design are all being used amazingly, and some of these features are what really shows us where Nintendo shines and where Sony sucks balls. Like IGN balls. Whoops, I forgot, they're non freaking existent.
You say: Hur Hur Hur derez ohnly wuhn gamme datz g0odh
The truth: You're freaking contradictory girly men, IGN. In your reviews, Feel the Magic is the game to have! In another, Band Brothers is the funnest launch title! Then there's Wario Ware, which is amazingly addictive! And now Super Mario, plus several third party games which are a lot better than you freaking fags consider them.
I...G...freaking...N. Imbecile Girly N00bs. n00bs to anything about gaming.
You guys used to at least be readable. But I hope members of other freaking channels are reading this.
IGN sucks @$$.
There's a piece of my mind for you,
kirby_killer_dedede
Let's see how those retards feel about that.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 11, 2004, 10:18:40 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on December 11, 2004, 10:29:36 AM
Post by: codyy on December 11, 2004, 12:33:25 PM
P.S. Check out the PSP launch:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/11/news_6114900.html
or at everyone's favorite site:
http://psp.ign.com/articles/572/572528p1.html
Post by: KDR_11k on December 11, 2004, 07:15:06 PM
Post by: stevey on February 10, 2009, 12:21:24 AM
The really childish thing is that mailbag. I have NEVER seen a professional anything outright ridicule its customer. Any chance I've ever had of buy Insider was gone with that. Can you imagine the PGC people attacking their reads like that? I can't.
Oh how the times have changed. IGNWR
Post by: NWR_Lindy on February 10, 2009, 12:44:35 AM
Post by: RABicle on February 10, 2009, 11:44:56 AM
Post by: Tanookisuit on February 12, 2009, 10:50:48 AM
Post by: Tanookisuit on February 12, 2009, 11:06:09 AM
Post by: Stratos on February 14, 2009, 01:14:01 AM
Now I want to see how long it will stay on the first page out twisted humor :rolleyes:
Oh wur? My bur.
Scoop!
Post by: mac<censored> on August 30, 2009, 09:57:50 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 31, 2009, 04:50:17 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on August 31, 2009, 04:16:13 PM
Post by: Stratos on August 31, 2009, 06:28:45 PM
I clicked this thinking it was something new!
LOL, I thought it was new too. Like maybe IGN leaked something about the DS2 or that "Halo DS game" was actually coming out.
