Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Spak-Spang on November 22, 2004, 04:18:58 AM
Title: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 22, 2004, 04:18:58 AM
Ok.
We have all read the Mario 64 DS reviews, and we all know that this is a great game that is slightly flawed by no true analog control, via a control stick. However, why do we think it is flawed? Because of our memory of the original Mario 64.
I would like to challenge people to play the game and try to forget Mario 64. Try to forget that the game is a port. Play the game and enjoy it, then review the game as if it was an original and not a port.
I would bet that if you do that you will find your opinions of the game drastically different.
I haven't played Mario 64 in years. So remembering the game and every little nuisance of the control isn't a problem for me. I will admit that Mario DS isn't perfect in design, but it is far better than reviewers are letting on. They are letting the memory of another game get in the way.
I have question for you. When you review Halo 2 do you consider the controls of Halo and compare how Halo 2 stacks up to the original? I think the original controlled much easier. You didn't have to worry about so many different actions that are mapped to every button.
Or when you review Resident Evil Remake for Gamecube did you consider the control of the original Resident Evil on the review? Perhaps the Gamecube game controls are too good, taking some of the tension away with adding quick turn arounds and such.
Basically, I challenge people to play Mario 64 DS, and come here and write your review not comparing it to the N64 game, but reviewing it on its own merit alone.
After I get further in the game I will do that.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Rhoq on November 22, 2004, 04:36:53 AM
Actually - this is where I come in. Even though the N64 is my favorite console of all-time, I never owned Super Mario 64. As a matter of fact yesterday was the very first time I ever played SM64, ever.
I can honestly say - the control scheme will take a lot of getting used to. Flawed - maybe not, difficult - defintely. The D-Pad is ineffective and the touch screen is workable but not as easy to use as one would hope.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 22, 2004, 04:39:45 AM
Rohq: Great. I can't wait to read what you think after some time with the game.
So far the only problem I have had is with the Flip U-Turn Jump. Other than that I think it controls pretty good.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: norebonomis on November 22, 2004, 09:34:20 AM
i loved SM64 the first time and i love it this time. i find that i am spending way too much time playing minigames.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Procoprio on November 22, 2004, 01:21:22 PM
the thumb thingy is darn hard for me and my thumb keeps gradually moving toward one edge of the screen or another, I just want to grab the DS and yell where is my analog stick!!!!!
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 22, 2004, 01:55:16 PM
It's on the touchscreen...Everyone really does have to realize that having an analog stick really does defeat the purpose of the touchscreen in that sense...
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Perfect Cell on November 22, 2004, 02:14:43 PM
really does defeat the purpose of the touchscreen in that sense...
Not really
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Mario on November 22, 2004, 02:48:40 PM
Well when Super Mario 64 was made 8 years ago Nintendo didn't really have touch screen control in mind, this game wasn't built from the ground up to utilise the touch screen for control, which is probably why it's a bit awkward. However, the minigames sound INCREDIBLE.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Rhoq on November 22, 2004, 03:10:23 PM
Some of the Mini Games are quite fun - others feel like they were put there just to have something to exploit the touch screen.
Spak-Spang - while I still haven't played enough to give a review, I will say that I put about 45 minutes into it tonight - with the intention of getting acquainted with the touch screen control. I believe I am now very comfortable with the touch screen and while I think an analog stick would be much better, the touch screen is a reasonable substitute - once you adjust to it.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: ActorJ on November 22, 2004, 03:23:28 PM
what we need to fix the touch screen issue, is a circular "rim" that can be fixed onto the ds touch screen, to give us some obvious boundaries....ellegent? no, but i think t would solve the problem.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Rhoq on November 22, 2004, 03:47:43 PM
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure if I understand what you're suggesting.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: kennyb27 on November 22, 2004, 05:23:04 PM
Quote Originally posted by: ActorJ what we need to fix the touch screen issue, is a circular "rim" that can be fixed onto the ds touch screen, to give us some obvious boundaries....ellegent? no, but i think t would solve the problem.
I haven't even looked at the touch screen while I'm using for control though. So I don't see how that would affect me. Of course I think the touch control is ingenious.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Ian Sane on November 22, 2004, 06:18:26 PM
"Everyone really does have to realize that having an analog stick really does defeat the purpose of the touchscreen in that sense..."
No it doesn't. An analog stick and a touchscreen are totally different. A touchscreen is essentially the same as a mouse and a mouse can be used for completely different purposes in gaming. For example an RTS works better with a mouse while a 3D platformer works better with an analog stick. Both are worth having and having both would provide tons of flexibility. In fact I think it would benefit the Revolution greatly if it came with both a controller and a mouse.
Now would having an analog stick defeat the purpose of having touchscreen control in Super Mario 64 DS? Yes but that's not a bad thing. There's no rule that every game has to use the touchscreen. Afterall Super Mario 64 DS is merely an analog stick designed game shoehorned into a touchscreen interface.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on November 22, 2004, 07:26:12 PM
I think by the rim that actorj is speakin of is to have a small round indentation on the touch screen, an indentation big enough to fit your thumb in and alow slight movement in every direction. Like this, you can just place your thumb dead center in the indentation and just move up the edges to simulate an anolog stick. The problem with the touch screen is that its hard to come up with a mental resting point on the touch screen. Thats why everyone tends to run their fingers off the screen, since no one is returnin to thier own mental resting point. I hope I helped in clearing up what actorJ was mentioning. (Anyways, thats how I interpreted it lol)
It would be a good idea but that would get in the way with other games. Only way that wouldve been possible is to place that indented round area to the bottom left and right of the touch screen. Giving it a dual analog setup and help lefties use the feature also. Anyways, wouldve been a good idea but the touch screen wouldve had to been bigger to allow for such a feature. Also, dont know if its even technically possible or how expensive such a screeen would be.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Rhoq on November 23, 2004, 01:12:11 AM
Nice idea, but something like that would interfere with other games that use the touch screen for things other than "analog" control.
Yeah, every 30 seconds or so I have to reposition my thumb in SM64DS, but I think it's all just part of the learning curve. I've trained myself to avoid the camera control area of the touc screen and I'm sure that with enough practice, one could train themselves to return to that "mental resting point".
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 23, 2004, 03:41:48 AM
I have played probably 2 hours now. I beat the first Bowser, and have all but one star in the first level and a few stars in the other levels. Here is what I have noticed about the control.
1)Jumping is alittle bit more ackward. It seems hard to triple jump, or run and jump forward if you are close to a wall. Not a big deal, I probably just need to get a little more adjusted to the controls. 2)The Camera controls are not perfect. It makes me wish I could completely Customize the controls, because there isn't a peferct control set up. Still this isn't a huge problem. 3)The analog control can make you slip and you have to adjust. This isn't hugely annoying yet, but it could be a problem in later levels. However, since Mario 64 was very rarely about defeating enemies it shouldn't be too much of a problem. 4)The only move that is hard to perform is that special U-Turn jump. Its very hard to get the timing consistant.
Here are a few good things I have noticed about the control.
1)The touch screen actually does work to emulate analog, and you can easily get the degree of sensitivity needed to do all your moves. 2)Nintendo fixed wall jumping by adding the slide down the walls so it is totally less frustrating to try and wall jump. This is a huge blessing. 3)The touch screen actually makes spinning Bowswer around 100% more enjoyable and more intuative. Its a great feeling.
Talking about possible cheap and easy fixes. I got one people should try. If the DS won't freak out about having something else on the screen you can place a circular object on it the size or alittle larger for the analog sensitivity. Then when you hit the edge of that circular object you know you have gone too far out.
Or if a 3rd party develops a slightly more pointed thumbstrap, but I completely see why Nintendo developed the thumbstrap like they did.
The game is still a blast, and literally feels like a new game. Anyone that is holding off on the game or the system because its a port is missing something truely special. This game feels completely different, and there is so much new stuff that its great.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: vudu on November 23, 2004, 08:52:21 AM
Quote I have played probably 2 hours now. I beat the first Bowser, and have all but one star in the first level and a few stars in the other levels.
OMG, you fight Bowser more than once?!? Use a spoiler warning next time!! Some of us want to be surprised.
I'm just messing with you.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 24, 2004, 03:21:42 AM
KING: Yeah you know actually, that could be a spoiler...if people never played the game before.
But your right in that there are probably many people probably have never played Mario 64.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on November 24, 2004, 06:40:19 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Spak-Spang They are letting the memory of another game get in the way.
No, they're letting memories of the same game get in the way. And they should. When you port a game to another system, the assumption by fans is that the new version will, at the very least, be as good as the original. If you look at reviews for other ports and collections of ports from classic publishers and systems, you will find many cases of criticism over inferior graphics, sound, and control in the new versions.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 24, 2004, 02:23:48 PM
Yeah, and I'm the only one who seems to be saying this, but the graphics are a disappointment in SM64DS, methinks. I have no doubts the DS is capable of much more, but let's leave the pixelly stuff for 2D, okay Nintendo?
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 24, 2004, 02:26:57 PM
Uh oh, SM64DS isn't as pretty as SMS, better trade in your DS for a PSP!
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 24, 2004, 02:31:14 PM
lol...I knew I was killing myself by saying that...
I don't want anything like SMS, I'm just saying that by looking at some of the other games still scheduled for release (i.e. Egg Monster Heroes/Gundam), the DS is obviously capable of more, and I just don't like the fact that the first-party isn't taking advantage of that. That's why online was a dud on the GCN.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 29, 2004, 04:28:11 AM
Finally I feel I can write a short review on this game. Please note I have not beaten the game yet. I am about 72 stars into the game, and I have unlocked all the characters. I have also for the most part have completed the first half of the game.
Here is my brief review:
For those of you whom may not know, or may not have played Mario 64 for the Nintendo 64, Mario 64 DS is a port with some major enhancements and gameplay additions. To call it a port is almost doing it disservice, as it feels much more like a remake than anything else.
GAMEPLAY:
Mario 64 pioneered the 3D platforming gameplay. It's influences on the genre are still easily seen today. Gameplay consists of obtaining power stars within the worlds 3D stages. However, this isn't a simple means of treasure hunting throughout the levels. Most stars are centered around a specific challenge or boss battle. In fact, finding and obtaining these stars often feels like you are solving puzzles then playing an action game.
New to this version of Mario 64 is the inclusion of 4 playable characters. Mario, Luigi, Wario and Yoshi. Yoshi is character that is most varied of the four and brings a newness to the game. The "three Marios" all play very similarly with one of two unique moves and modified controls. In fact the 3 original powerup in Mario 64 have been divided among these three, forcing you to use different characters to obtain different stars. Only three new powerups are in this game; Yoshi's ability to breathfire, a power mushroom to grow in size and Mario's ability to balloon up as he did in Super Mario World for the Super Nintendo. Some might complain that this represents a lack of thought on the design team, but I see it as a clever way of working the new characters within the game, without it being a gimmick or breaking the original game.
CONTROL:
The biggest contraverse with this game is why no analog control stick. For those who never played Mario 64 before you picked this game up it won't be a problem but for those who remember the tighter controls will miss the original feel of the game. Mario 64 DS comes with three control types. Each one offers its own shortcomings and benefits over the other. All of them can be mastered relatively easily with time and practice. My personal preferance is the touch mode controls. I started the game with this mode and it has become second nature to me. In fact the only issue I have with control right now is that the Flip Turn jump is still hard to perform 100% of the time. This was always a fun move to do in the original game, however it is a pretty useless jump for advancing through the levels. It has not be missed.
Dispite the lack of a control stick Nintendo has done an amazing job cleaning and tweaking other aspects of control within the game. Swimming feels smoother and more responsive in this game than in the original. As well the design team included the wall slide from Super Mario Sunshine to make Wall Jumping easier and more enjoyable. Luigi and Yoshi also add a flutter jump that helps you land very difficult jumps with little to no problem. These inclusions make the game easier, however they don't make the experience too easy or less enjoyable.
NEW STUFF
Running through the old levels of Mario is a blast. Each level has an additional Star to find, and many times you will find other new additions and surprises. New enemies have been placed into levels. Some are brand new to the series and add a fun challenge. Throughout the levels you will find just small inclusions of new items to make the virtual playground feel fresh again. Be it a new turtle shell that wasn't there before, or a beach added to a level the new additions are enjoyable and feel like they should be there instead of just placed there for no reason.
There are no new full blown levels within the game. However there are several additional minilevels. These challenges remind me of the original castle secret bonus sections, however a built with much more difficulty in mind. Its in these sections that you will unlock the captured hereos, find several castle secret stars and fight new and exciting boss battles.
MINI GAMES:
Completely new the the Mario 64 DS are minigames. These are simple touchscreen controlled games that feel like flash games or old arcade games. Most are surprisingly addicted. I have found when I people play my DS they go straight for those minigames and will play for hours. My wife is completely addicted to several of them. They are a fun diversion, aren't enough to warrant a purchase if you do not enjoy 3D platformers.
OVERALL IMPRESSIONS:
I am overall incredibly impressed by this remake. Nintendo took a game and really tweaked the experience. It has enhanced every aspect of the game, except perhaps the control. I am also reminded just how good the original level design was for this game that was original released 10 years ago. Incredible. This is the DS launch game that is required purchase with the system. It will keep you busy for several weeks, and will be a game that is enjoyable to play on the go even after you have beaten and unlocked everything within the game.
Out of 10 Stars.
I would give it about a 9.5
Here is why. Control isn't really an issue in this game, but having a move that is difficult to pull off is still frustrating. I can't give a perfect score when that is in place.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 30, 2004, 11:22:58 AM
Anyone else comfortable using the control pad? I could never get used to the touch screen, so I started using the control pad and I've had hardly ANY problem. It seemed too "slick" at first, but once you get used to it, it works quite well.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2004, 12:24:24 PM
I can't do the standard mode controls. Everytime I try to do anything with the D-PAD I fail. However, the touchscreen has become pretty natural for me. Its not perfect, but its pretty darn good.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 30, 2004, 12:48:27 PM
Wish I could get used to the touch screen but I can't, at least I am doing quite well without it (I have 91 stars).
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: ActorJ on November 30, 2004, 08:19:21 PM
i use the touch screen for everything. takes some getting used to, but after the first hour i wasnt even thinking about it anymore.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 12, 2004, 01:40:29 PM
Ok, after finally being able to play my DS, I really have to wonder what lack of coordination you touchscreen analog nay-sayers have...It's an absolute CINCH to use...
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 12, 2004, 03:32:41 PM
I just think it feels kind of weird...it's like an anlog stick...but not there.
Plus that thumb strap keeps freaking sliding off. I think the best thumb strap would've been if they made something like...eh, idk, like a velcro thimble or something. That would actually work really well.
Not that I really care, 112 stars in with the D-pad.
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 12, 2004, 04:26:37 PM
I was thinking the same thing, or maybe have something to cover your whole thumb
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 14, 2004, 03:14:44 AM
I am sure some 3rd party will develop some sort of new thumbstrap or whatever they want to call it.
Something will be made and it will work. Some will say better others will say worse. I will love to try it.
In the end, it will mean that Mario will just play better.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 14, 2004, 06:36:38 AM
Okay, here it is. I'll be getting a DS sometime. I liked Super Mario 64, I liked it a lot. I'm not sure if I want to play through it again, though. Do you think this game adds enough to warrant a purchase under those circumstances?
Title: RE:Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 14, 2004, 07:36:08 AM
Hostile Creations:
It really depends on how much you liked the first game. Here is what the new game adds:
1)Each level has an additional Star. This Star is usually of one or two different varities of challenges. Hit a Star Switch and Race through the level to the Star: Or collect 5 Silver Stars within the level. One is more of a puzzle and you must know the levels. The other is a new kind of Scavenger hunt. Both are pretty enjoyable inclusions.
2)In Some Levels (Not all) Red Coins have been moved around so you kinda have a fresh experience trying to find all the Red Coins. At least I think this is true, because often I found red coins where I didn't remember them being.
3)New Mini Levels. There are about 4 new mini levels within the game. These levels are much shorter and only hold 1 or 2 Stars each. They all feel unique, and they definately add to the experience.
4)New Bosses and Sometimes New Ways to defeat Old Bosses.
5)Really Addicting minigames. Yes some of the mini games aren't as good. However, you will find yourself addicted to atleast 5 of these minigames, and they are great fun as a short time waster.
6)New Characters. Now this is a toss up. The new characters actually make the game much easier and much more forgiving. Luigi and Yoshi's flutter jumps make timing jumps much easier. Yoshi's Egg attacks are also too powerful for the game. There really isn't a drastic enough difference to change characters too often. Just stick with Luigi. Wario however is worthless, except for stars that require him.
7)The little surprise touchs. The most fun I had with this game is the little added touches. Some levels its new enemies. Others its the addition of a green turtle shell or the owl. But the levels aren't exact copies of the originals, and the additions are very cool to run across.
To me all these add up to a game worth revisiting. The new stars give you more challenge and gives you enough new experiences to not make you feel like you are just playing the same old game. Nintendo was real smart in spreading these stars among the levels that already exist, because you get to the new stuff much quicker.
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 14, 2004, 08:04:20 AM
From what you say, it definitely sounds as if it's worth it. All the stuff they added sound like great additions, and I've been looking forward to the minigames after seeing a few of them. I think I'll probably get this (especially since I think I've lost my copy of SM64 anyway).
Title: RE: Mario 64 DS reviews
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 14, 2004, 10:13:02 AM
Yeah, it really is something to run into an event that didn't happen in the original game...I've been dumbfounded more than once trying to recall something that happened in the original that never happened... ^_^
