Post by: questworld on October 23, 2004, 09:17:09 PM
The fact is most saw the GameCube as “kiddy” from the start and they made their support, if any, reflect that delusion. A system’s reputation is only as good as the games that grace it. The NES and SNES are proof of that and they were 2D-based systems (another instrument that has been dismissed as mainly kiddy for its lack of detail and realism). Even Hideo Kojima once said that “it would be nice to have a Metal Gear game for DS, but the thing is I personally think that the audience for DS will be like that of GBA - it'll be a much younger audience. And this Metal Gear's not really suitable for them." Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear, etc. pretty much never made the same level of acclaim until they went all 3D and cinematic.
With respect to Konami, we GameCubers and Nintendo supporters alike simply need to remind them to stop from giving us only games like Disney Sports, Yu-Gi-Oh, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, etc. I for one cannot vouch for these games’ quality; however, my opinion is that apart from Twin Snakes I find their support lacking (particularly when most of us have requested more of games like Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, Contra, Castlevania, Ys, Enthusia Professional Racing, DDR, etc.) Hopefully, with Twin Snakes, we might at the least finally get a port of both Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater (the former perhaps being a pre-order bonus). If you want to support the release of these games or any others from Konami, post your thoughts here (Snake Eater's coming, tell them you want it or it'll be Substance all over again). Alternatively, you can post them in this thread:
http://www.konami.com/main/cgi-bin/...ic;f=1;t=001764
As for Square-Enix, Crystal Chronicles was fine and all, but definitely didn’t turn out to be the game most would’ve expected. Many have called for true RPGs synonymous to their reputation, even remakes to Final Fantasy VII and the like. GameCubers are being left out in the cold with the PS2 continually receiving pretty much everything (a FFVII spin-off no less – what a slap in the face). I feel that they’ve been wasting GCN owners’ time anticipating games that aren’t even there. Rumors seem abound more on the GCN than actual games. This isn’t a request to abandon the PS2, this is a request for more on the GameCube. It’s been so many years while they’ve taken every opportunity to port as many games as they can on the GBA. Kingdom Hearts, of all things, makes it on the GBA, and with a “kiddy” reputation, you’d think GCN would be just the ticket for such a game, and yet, nothing. With so many projects on the PS2 you’d think S-E can spare one for the GCN. Even a simultaneous port would be appreciated. Considering their games have been quite linear, I doubt a two or even four disc game would be such an issue.
Frankly, there are many companies out there that keep GCN owners at a pole’s reach. Whether its mostly aesthetically kiddy games, to lack of game development, or to a constant drop of features available to other systems, GCN owners almost always get the short end of the deal.
(Burnout 3 online-centric? Tell me everyone who bought it for the Xbox and PS2 are going online with it. How about 70%? 50%? If you tell me that only 20% of these people use it, then bring it. No multiplayer in Pandora Tomorrow? Sega holds the numbers as to how many people go online with the GCN. Not many? Why? Does Ubisoft earn anything while they provide a FREE service to PS2 and PC owners? It’s a chicken and egg deal. You’ve got to provide the service to entice GCN owners to buy the modems that’ll support the service, hence, expand the online community on the system. Will Chaos Theory be the same or will we at least get the co-op mode?)
Got threads, petitions, etc.? Post them here. The boards yours people. Let ‘em have it!
Post by: King of Twitch on October 23, 2004, 10:04:14 PM
Gamecube online support is a lost cause
Post by: Infernal Monkey on October 24, 2004, 02:18:20 AM
Still, I really don't understand their whole Disney Sports rubbish on GameCube. Did they even play these games?
"Sir, we've made Donald Duck Plays Football in Kawaii Land for GameCube, like you requested"
"Good. Noooooow, make... hmmmm... make the same game, but replace the football with a basketball and call it Goofy Plays Basketball in Crazy Land"
"Sir, that won't make much sense"
"QUIET, I'M BUSY MAKING SILENT HILL 4 A GENERIC HEAP OF CRAP"
Post by: KDR_11k on October 24, 2004, 06:24:06 AM
Once they've learned their lesson the manufacturer will fall from grace next round but the third parties will be smarter for the next few gens. Stir 'em up, they've settled down and started to rot already!
Post by: questworld on October 24, 2004, 06:26:50 AM
I'm just doing this to sort of network any and all individuals from multiple message boards who still want to keep their opinions in the minds of these companies. Will it do much? Probably not. But for all the years I've bought their games I do feel like I'm being neglected. And for what? Because I happen to enjoy Nintendo's games as well? I like 'em all. Konami, Capcom, Tecmo, EA, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, Koei, etc. Feedback is always important no matter what system your on. And if petitions, and boards are the best thing I can do to contribute, then why not?
Incidentally, there won't be any rally on the street or anything that extreme. We're not trying to toss out a corrupt government or anything. However, there's no reason you can't go out in the streets. After all, gamers could use the exercise.
Post by: vudu on October 24, 2004, 07:04:46 AM
The cube gets some decent third party support from a couple companies. We get a few really nice exclusives. But, for the most part, people who own a GameCube do so for the purpose of playing Nintendo games. We typically feel that their games are the best out there and we're happy with our choice. We're always happy with whatever bone is thrown our way, but most of us don't bitch and moan if the PS2 or Xbox get some games that we don't. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some Paper Goombas to go beat up.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 24, 2004, 10:38:49 AM
I don't think there's anybody here who owns no third party Cube games. We're doing our "duty" or whatever. There just aren't enough of us for third parties to care. It's those who bought a Cube as a secondary console that are a problem. They bought a Cube because it's cheap and they only buy a few Nintendo titles with all their third party purchases being on the PS2.
Blame those casual owners. Blame the third parties for making inferior Cube versions of multiplatform games or making poor games period. Blame Nintendo's sheer incompetence with the Cube's first year for a low userbase. Don't blame us because we've done what's expected of us. PS2 owners just buy whatever the f*ck they want and nobody sh!ts on them so no one should sh!t on us for doing the same thing.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 24, 2004, 11:06:46 AM
Post by: UncleBob on October 24, 2004, 01:46:12 PM
Okay, here's a quick rundown of my GCN Game Collection (and there's a reason I'm going here). I've had my GCN since launch (at midnight) and never trade/sell any of my games.
I consider myself an "above average" gamer. I'll get games that I think are fun and usually won't spend a lot on them unless it's something *I* really want. However, I'm big on the old games (with my Intellivision, NES, SNES, and N64 ready to go) and I *love* gimmicks (ROB, Super Scope, e-Reader, etc...)
Anywhoo, here we go.
Animal Crossing (Launch - $50 - Wal-Mart)
Donkey Konga (Launch - $50 - Wal-Mart)
Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (Launch - $50 - FYE)
Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (Launch - $50 - Wal-Mart)
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour (Used - $15 - Game Crazy)
Mario Party 5 (Launch - $50 - EB Games)
Metroid Prime (Used - $15 - Junk Store)
Pikmin (Used - $15 - EB Games)
Super Smash Bros. Melee (Launch - $50 - Wal-Mart)
Pokémon Colosseum (Demo - $5 - Target)
Legend of Zelda: Collectors Edition (Freebie - Nintendo Power)
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (Freebie - Wind Waker Reserve)
Metroid Prime II Demo (Nintendo Freebie)
Batman: Rise of Sin Tzu (New - $20 - EB Games)
Crazy Taxi (Used - $15 - EB Games)
Midway Arcade Treasures (Launch - $20 - Wal-Mart)
Pac-Man World 2 w/ Pac-Man Vs. (New/Re-Launch - $20 - Wal-Mart)
Resident Evil (Launch - $40 - Target)
The Sims (New - $10 - Toys R Us)
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle (Launch - $50 - Wal-Mart)
Soul Caliber II (New - $20 - Wal-Mart)
Super Monkey Ball (Launch - $50 - Wal-Mart)
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Launch - $50 - Wal-Mart)
Tetris Worlds (New - $10 - Toys R Us)
So you look at this list and see, hey, here's a somewhat casual gamer who, not including freebies/demos, has 11 third party games, but only 9 1st party games. Third party games appeal to the casual gamer as well! Why do third party companies not support the Gamecube?
Well, $345 1st Party vs $305 3rd Party. That's about $38 per game vs. about $28 per game. About a $10 difference. So even though I do give plenty of support to the third parties, I don't really like to give them as much money. Plus, had I not been caught up in the hype, I never would have bought Resident Evil or Sonic 2 - I just didn't care for those games... (Knocking those off, it makes my 3rd party average a mere $22).
So the whole point is, just because someone's collection is half first party/half third party, it doesn't mean that the particular Cube owner really gives third party companies more (or enough) support. While I probably would have picked up Pikmin and Mario Golf at the higher prices (and not been disapointed), I don't really think I could have seen myself picking up any of the third party games at $50 (aside from Super Monkey Ball) without being disapointed.
In the future, I can see myself picking up another Donkey Konga (or Jungle Beat), the next Zelda and possibly the next Mario Party at the $50 price tag. I don't see myself picking up Arcade Treasures 2, Resident Evil 4, or another Sonic Game - even at a $20 price tag (maybe RE4 for $20) - let alone a $50 price tag...
So before you start waving the third party flag around, toting your list of 3rd party games, make sure you take into account how much you pay for them and when you buy them... because buying them a year after their release at a discounted price isn't really helping third parties think the Gamecube is where they want to bring their AAA titles...
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on October 24, 2004, 01:58:40 PM
Post by: Mario on October 24, 2004, 07:12:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
Well lets see for cube my games include 17 Nintendo Published games and 15 3rd party published so im about 52%/48% on First party vs 3rd party. And the reason theres alot of 3rd party on PS2 and Xbox because Sony's and Microsoft's first party support is crap compared to Nintendo's first party support.
Exactly, and if ALL third party games were on GameCube, we would have the best third party support and the best first party support on the one console, thus eliminating the need to own any other console! Or something..
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 24, 2004, 07:19:39 PM
I have 16 3rd-party-published games, all new, with only Monkey Ball2 being my ONLY Player's Choice title. 6 of which are from Capcom. 3 of which are from Sega. I'd say I'm not a casual gamer.
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 24, 2004, 10:27:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
Still, I really don't understand their whole Disney Sports rubbish on GameCube. Did they even play these games?
"Sir, we've made Donald Duck Plays Football in Kawaii Land for GameCube, like you requested"
"Good. Noooooow, make... hmmmm... make the same game, but replace the football with a basketball and call it Goofy Plays Basketball in Crazy Land"
"Sir, that won't make much sense"
"QUIET, I'M BUSY MAKING SILENT HILL 4 A GENERIC HEAP OF CRAP"
Best impression of Konami EVER.
Back on topic (to an extent). Of course GCN owners are going to buy a whole freaking lot of Nintendo's first party software. If you didn't want Mario, Samus, and Link you wouldn't have bought a GCN to begin with. It is important to keep buying those third party games though, and not at discount in the super saver bin for $9.99 at Wal-Mart either. I mean brand new at GameStop or EB.
Granted most people who would post here are fairly intelligent gamers who can recognize a good non-Nintendo game when they see it and don't hesitate to buy it. The problem is this. How do you get the generic Nintendo fan who ONLY owns a GCN for the first party stuff to buy more second/third party software? Many people who have a GCN now, previously bought a PS2 and they buy PLENTY of third party games for the PS2 that are readily available for the cube. This is frustrating and there is no good answer, no real solution to the problem.
All I can say is maybe if Nintendo helped these third parties out with some advertising dollars the third parties in question would match them better. Not fair to Nintendo, sure, but Nintendo has dug themselves a hole here. While this is hardly the same as the N64 days when we had to wait MONTHS for a new game to come out, it could be significantly better than it is. Nintendo should just bite the bullet and start kissing some serious ass. Lower the roylalty rates for third party software down to a rediculously low level if certain game release quotas are met. Sort of an I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine kind of thing.
I don't know. This whole thing sucks. I don't like getting too wrapped up in it because it makes my brain hurt.
Post by: NIGHTWING2.5 on October 25, 2004, 07:23:33 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 25, 2004, 07:36:21 AM
Yeah but why should I have to intentionally spend more money? I buy most games new just because I don't usually want to wait to play them but that shouldn't make a difference. If you own a good amount of third party titles it shows your interests lie beyond just the first party titles and that's really all that matters. Most PS2 owners probably buy a lot of used or discounted third party titles and that doesn't make a difference.
A fair bit of people have suggested that Nintendo try to put more focus on the third party lineup. While in theory I think that's good look at the US DS launch lineup. All but one of the titles is third party so third party games will initially be top sellers. However the launch lineup SUCKS. The problem with third parties is a lot of them try to make the best selling game with the least amount of effort so really lame average-to-bad third party titles are everywhere and now the DS launch lineup is pretty crummy which may hurt Nintendo more than anything. I think Nintendo should advertise major third party titles, make deals with third parties, and lower licensing fees but not at the expense of the first party lineup. The best thing Nintendo can do is make the Revolution really third party friendly (ie: no smaller memory cards, generic controller layout, etc) and really bust their ass within the first year to make the Rev the best system it can be. This should allow them to attract a wider userbase which will encourage third party sales. That's basically the solution. Make a console people actually want to buy.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 25, 2004, 07:56:50 AM
But then the GC is my only somewhat recent console and my only portal to the console genres.
Post by: Mario on October 25, 2004, 08:51:52 AM
Quote
However the launch lineup SUCKS. The problem with third parties is a lot of them try to make the best selling game with the least amount of effort so really lame average-to-bad third party titles are everywhere and now the DS launch lineup is pretty crummy which may hurt Nintendo more than anything.
Sorry, but the Nintendo DS launch lineup does not suck. Every single game has something unique about them and uses the DS's features, Spiderman 2 is a great example, that game looks fantastic and makes good practical use of the touch screen. But let's not turn this into a DS discussion, you've made it pretty clear you have something against the DS and I won't try to change your mind, I just find your ignorance towards the games rather annoying.
As for third party games on GC, over here if it's not published by EA, the only way to get it is to preorder it or get it very close to release, so all my third party games i've bought when they first came out just to make sure I got a copy. Hell, some games like Skies of Arcadia and Ikaruga weren't even released here, because the cubes userbase is that small. Therefore i blame the userbase of the GC for "lack of third party games".
Post by: Ian Sane on October 25, 2004, 09:07:40 AM
No I don't. I was a big supporter of it until I saw the launch lineup. I'm still in support of the system itself I just have no intention of buying it at launch.
If you want a different example I'll use the PS2. It was the same scenario with only one first party game and as a result the lineup was lame.
Post by: joshnickerson on October 25, 2004, 10:38:32 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on October 25, 2004, 02:13:37 PM
QuoteI think this may be the second time I've seen you post something along these lines. And I still can't figure this out. I can honestly say I haven't heard anything about Nintendo being influenced by "parental groups" that in some way play a part in the games they release on their console... So either I'm just outside of the loop or I'm not sure of the delusional world you seem to be living in.
The blame is also on Nintendo. I mean they obviously give in to these so-called parental groups, or something like that.
And Ian, I have to agree with Mario on this one. I do think the launch lineup is slim and not the most overwhelming ever; however, I don't think the games that are being released by third parties at the launch are "crummy" or "really lame average-to-bad third party titles." Many of the games may end up being better than their console counterparts (for example, Spiderman2 or Madden) and many may be solid, unique experiences (eg, Feel the Magic, Sprung, or Ping Pals).
Post by: KDR_11k on October 25, 2004, 10:20:55 PM
Post by: Captain Olimar on October 26, 2004, 12:20:01 AM
, i thought metroid prime was a letdown, and i still have played wind waker (even 2nd hand i cant find it cheaper than 30). big claps for Activision, they just released X-men legends on all platforms. Currently playing: pikmen2, donkey konga Currently wanting: X-men legends, Tales of symphoniaPost by: 1day on October 26, 2004, 12:52:01 AM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on October 26, 2004, 01:54:21 AM
Post by: 1day on October 26, 2004, 02:14:24 AM
Post by: Chongman on October 26, 2004, 03:30:22 AM
*take note i haven't read most of this topic*
I like my gamecube. I'm satisfied with it. Heck yeah I wish there was more third party support. Heck yeah I wish nintendo was in first place.
For now though, I'm extremely satisfied with the gameplay opportunites I have on my gc. Perhaps I'm not satisfied with nintendo's business model, but that's secondary. More third party support? Sure, I'm game.
Post by: Ymeegod on October 26, 2004, 06:53:19 AM
Big N dropped the royalties in April 2003 to that of Sony's but Sony went ahead and dropped their's again and Nintendo as far as I know didn't follow suit. MS on the other hand chargers the least.
Roughy from what I gathered, Nintendo is charging around $8, Sony's charging $7.25 and MS is around $6 per software. The price varies with publisher, pricing, and how many units are sold.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sidenote, Big N was also charing a FLAT rate at one point of time, meaning if the publisher/developer reduced the game's retail price, it still would have been paying the same rate to nintendo
. -------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by: KDR_11k on October 26, 2004, 07:47:13 AM
Next launch Nintendo m,ust do especially one thing: Somehow have a big game that appeals to the ignorant masses (the gore-kiddies) at launch. With this move Nintendo would secure a userbase that would buy violent third party titles and thus have third party titles sell well. I mean, compare how third party titles sell on the XBox and the GC, although they have about the same size of their userbase third party titles sell very badly on the Cube.
Post by: 1day on October 26, 2004, 01:59:38 PM
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/134/134552p1.html
Ok, so it wasn't a pure 100% confirmation but it was pretty damn close.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 26, 2004, 02:12:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: 1day
Here another funny logic loop. If the GameCube were the most powerful system, then all of Team Ninja's games would have released only on GameCube!
Team Ninja doesn't have an accurate picture of what "the most powerful system" is. The visual performance they achieve is relative to their game designs, as is the case with all games.
Post by: Mario on October 26, 2004, 07:00:00 PM
Post by: UncleBob on October 27, 2004, 03:23:58 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 27, 2004, 03:08:20 PM
Post by: UncleBob on October 27, 2004, 07:01:42 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 27, 2004, 07:23:06 PM
Post by: NINJA-1 on October 31, 2004, 10:19:05 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on October 31, 2004, 11:23:31 AM
-those games were tons of fun, and mario 64 still hasn't been topped.
You can't all say you bought a GC just for another batch of Mario and Link games
-After seeing the SW2000 demo that was barely what 15 seconds long, I knew I needed a cube, but that's just me.
I bought a GC, because it was Nintendo's next generation console, and I couldn't wait for the upgrades of games coming from 3rd parties
-but surely you knew of the 64's lousy 3rd party support, and that it would partly carry over to the next system?
so can I have your cube then? mine's broken
Post by: Infernal Monkey on October 31, 2004, 11:40:45 AM
Quote
Zelda(disney look)
You know, I would of thought by now people would of gotten over the cel shading. Because hey, it's been well over a year now. "Shrug off games everyday based on their graphics"
Quite seriously though, I have a PS2 and GC. The ONLY games that have appeared on Xbox/PS2 that I would of liked to see on GC are Burnout 3 and Bloody Roar 4. I don't CARE that we didn't get a whole barrel of crap games. Would you have bought Terminator 3, Dark Angel or V8 Supercars 2 if they were thrown on GC? Didn't think so.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 31, 2004, 08:36:23 PM
Post by: Ymeegod on November 03, 2004, 05:42:04 AM
As well as stores, rental shops, ect.
To sell more games, word of mouth seems to get the most attention.
Example would be GTASA, each day during my lunch I overhear two or three people talking about it and always hear "I'm going have to try that". Never hear crap about the GC unless I'm the one bringing it up.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 03, 2004, 09:17:45 AM
Post by: CHEN on November 03, 2004, 12:31:00 PM
Post by: Gamebasher on November 05, 2004, 04:48:01 AM
Why? Because ever since Nintendo themselves discovered the amount of trouble they were in, with regard to third-party support, they have been working around the clock to re-attract that support, and work with them, in mutually beneficial ways, and they´re gaining more support every month! Just look at how many companies support the new DS! And this is no GB or GBA platform, even though it can play GBA games. So it´s remarkable, because it could have been just the opposite! It´s an entirely new system, and Nintendo have no problem getting the third-parties to develope for it!
I really don´t think that it will be nescesarry to rally for third-party support! Those companies who make games, know well that Nintendo exist. And to run around getting people to tell them "Support GameCube!" would probably create just the opposite of the intended response: annoyance! You can bring a horse to water, but you can´t make him drink! Unless he want´s to!
Let them come themselves, let Nintendo do the job. Afterall they´re the only ones who can talk to the companies on a strict business-level. All we could ever do, would be to fill up their mailboxes with too many emails that would most likely go unnoticed for lack of time to respond. Some of them simply don´t respond to consumers because they´re busy making the games.
Really, if the current list of NDS games in anything to go by, we´re not having a thing to worry about come Nintendo Revolution. The attention and success of the NDS (it´s virtually sold out already!), will spill over to the next aforementioned new platform! And a new Nintendo success cycle is born, and we´re in videogame heaven!
This is not the time to get emotional, but a time to understand w h y all this started!!!
It´s all about what Nintendo did before and do from now on and forward, all of which will be closely monitored by all the third party developers. Afterall, it was Nintendo themselves who, for fear of piracy, created the cartridge based game platform called Nintendo 64 which started the whole problem. Not to mention the issue of the very high licensing fees. Developers today look at the risks involved at throwing millions of dollars into a game project and perhaps never seeing any profits! If they assess that the risk is too high, they wont do it! And they will completely forget it, if Nintendo´s own way of treating them is wrong. And this was the case before, but nolonger.
So I don´t think there´s anything to worry about!
Clearly Nintendo now understands, having clearly expressed so publicly, and have on multiple levels undone past mistakes, so both the developers and the consumers are happy (I really sometimes wonder if this had anything to do with the transition of power from former NCL President Hiroshi Yamauchi to current new NCL President Satoru Iwata! Yamauchi comes from a time where things were not so easy in Japan, and therefore was of the Old Order, tough and sturdy like the Samurai, not easy to negotiate with, while Iwata is more relaxed and affluent, having grown up in a society which was far easier to live in and therefore much more light at hearth and more diplomatic).
Satoru Iwate video interview
here
Post by: Ian Sane on November 05, 2004, 06:38:48 AM
Oh yeah I'm sure it took a lot of effort to get third parties to support the DS. "Hi we're Nintendo, the undisputed leader in the portable gaming market. Would you like to support our new portable?" You can bring up the third pillar talk if you want but the fact is that the public sees the DS as the next Gameboy and third parties see it as the next Gameboy so the support is going to be comparible to the GBA. Nintendo might not have named the DS "Gameboy" but nobody sees it as anything but.
I will admit however that Nintendo did a great job in making the DS third party friendly. Aside from having new features that allow more freedom with game design the DS is flexible enough to allow for more traditional games to be made as well. That's a big deal. When I first heard of the DS I was afraid we were going to get something that's so different that you couldn't even play Tetris on it. Bringing this level of flexibility to the Revolution would be a great idea and it would probably attract a few hardcore developers. But it's not going to be enough. All Nintendo had to do to get DS support was not screw up. With the Revolution they have to be absolutely exceptional to get the same level of third party support.
Still, judging by the DS, Nintendo has at the very least recognized that they have to design a system that works for everyone. So I'm less afraid that the DS is going to have tiny memory cards and an irregular controller design that works well for Nintendo but nobody else.
Post by: NINJA-1 on November 06, 2004, 05:33:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal MonkeyQuote
Zelda(disney look)
You know, I would of thought by now people would of gotten over the cel shading. Because hey, it's been well over a year now. "Shrug off games everyday based on their graphics"
What I meant by that actually was the fact that they made Link a child with big bright blue eyes instead of; say for example mid-teen age like he was; when he was on the old Captain N cartoon. I don't mind cel-shaded graphics especially when the game is based off of animated show. Like Robotech. Cel-shading should apply for that. Transformers which was only the PS2 should've been Cel-shaded in my opinion to look more like the actual show. But back to this 3rd party issue. I can only hope Nintendo is actually trying to appeal to the 3rd parties, because getting them to develope games for another portable platform is really no big leap when you think about it. I mean they know the average gamer will buy it. I mean the GBA alone out sold the major consoles. Nintendo has to really wake-up and realize that this not the NES-SNES era, and they are not the big man on campus. Because today when people think VIDEO GAMES. Playstation is the first thing that comes to mind. Not Nintendo. Nintendo has to stop this "You should develope games for us because we're Nintendo" attitude. I mean C'mon doesn't anybody here agree that all consoles should have a version of a game. You have shell out an extra $100-200. For example Blood-Rayne was on all the home consoles. Now the sequel is on the the PS2 and X-Box only. You can't tell you guys/gals agree with that. Forget about sells crap. It doesn't cost that much to port that game; If you don't want to take the time to develope it for one platform over the other. They make the money back for the cost of porting the game.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 06, 2004, 07:37:27 AM
Besides, giving the mods a hint that you had a previous account that was banned is a quick way to get banned again. God forgives,
never does.
Post by: NINJA-1 on November 06, 2004, 08:00:59 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 06, 2004, 08:20:26 PM
The userbase that bought the GC doesn't care about third party titles. There are a LOT of kids in there and kids don't buy many games (and don't inform themselves but buy whichever game is labled "Spongebob" or "Mario"). Given equal chances, a third party title that deviates much from Nintendo's offerings will sell worse on the GC than the XBox or PS2. Third parties just don't see it as worth that effort.
Sony and MS can establish exclusivity contracts more easily. A dev or pub will only accept such a contract if the compensation is larger than the profits he'd get from going multiplatform. Sony doesn't have to pay much for that, leaving out the XB and GC doesn't mean many lost sales. Microsoft has the money advantage, even though they need to pay more they can afford it. Nintendo cannot throw around money left and right, at least if they want to stay alive until the Rev launches.
Now, as a dev, why would you develop for the GC or even enter an exclusivity contract with Nintendo? Some people here would because they are Nintendo but I cannot think of any good reason. Go with the PS2, get big sales and maybe money hats (or a rejection but as long as you produce generic shovelware SCEA won't step in). Go with the XBox, get lotsa money and the ability to use Live instead of setting up your own servers just so PR has another bullet point. Go with the GC and you won't get nothing except for bad sales.
Nintendo is already securing exclusivities, the problem is that the only major company they could convince was Capcom who don't like to honour any conteracts. Except for them, Nintendo can only afford buying smaller developers (where a buyout is probably more profitable than a contract) and let them make games. Retro, N-Space, previously Silicon Knights (SK's stuff didn't sell so they weren't worth much, despite what their fans might think).
Post by: Ian Sane on November 06, 2004, 08:53:26 PM
Well if "Because we're Nintendo" is the only answer to give then it means they've dropped the ball. I'm not just mad because that's they're answer. I'm mad because they can't just say "because the Gamecube is a commerically worthwhile console to invest in". And "because we're Nintendo" is NOT the only answer to give. They can offer to publish a game or advertise it (though I wouldn't consider THAT sweetening the deal) or make deals where the licence fees are lower or they'll lower GBA licence fees in exchange. They can still provide an incentive as long as they're willing to take a risk.
Nintendo DOES act like they're still number one. They always do things different and assume that others will accept that. You can't do that if you're not the market leader. You can't release a smaller memory card and just expect third parties to make conservative save requirements if the market leader is letting them make bloated saves. You can't expect third parties to make online titles without any help when both competitors are going out of their way to accomodate online gaming. You can't have a wacky controller and expect everyone to adapt their games to it. You can't charge higher licencing fees if you're not the market leader. Nintendo does (or at least did during the crucial first years of the Cube's life) everything as if they have a position of power. They have no power so their third party policies are worthless.
Hell they do the same crap with their customers. They limit demos to kiosks or make us jump through hoops for them. When they first released the Cube's Player's Choice line it was $10 more than the PS2 or Xbox budget line.
Now they're improving but it's at such a slow rate it makes no difference. Why should a third party support the guy who's slowing improving when the compeitition is STILL better?
I think this is why Nintendo did what they did with DS and supposedly plan to do with the Revolution. They know they don't have any good reason for third parties to support them so they created one. The DS can support types of games that no other system can AND it does that without sacrificing traditional game mechanics. From a creative standpoint that's a big draw. If Nintendo can do the same thing for the Revolution it should improve third party support. But it needs to not sacrifice traditional game mechanics so that means it has to be online. Otherwise they're doing the connectivity thing again where they're trading one way of doing things for another.
Post by: Gamebasher on November 08, 2004, 04:26:35 AM
They have something up their sleeve, which is going to delight everyone. I think they will finally deliver, and find also a final solution to the third party issue and online gaming.
Truly, they wouldn´t be talking about a revolution and not secure a hefty support from third-parties. As stated before, even if they don´t get enough third-party support, they need to expand their own gameproduction and aquisition of gamestudios in order to simply deliver the games themselves that others do not find themselves able to- or simply do not care to make properly! That´s the only solution I see to the longstanding problem of poor thirdparty make-a-quick-buck offerings that unfairly leave Nintendo in a quagmire of pressure from two sides: 1) people who "want more games to choose from" and 2) the situation of not being able to deliver enough games themselves to compensate if even a little.
They already abandoned the traditional long developement cycles, and now that that is history they´re sending out new games much faster than before. Just look at how fast Pikmin 2 was made and released! And how good it is!!
Let´s give them a break, and compliment then for what they have achieved more vigorously. I don´t think you would like to be critisized too much, if in fact you were improving a lot! If people critisize too much, Nintendo might grow tired and feel it isn´t worth it! So we should give them the support they deserve! Afterall, they´re they only ones who can make games with that level of quality that only few others can rival!
I know how annoying they´ve been, but I think it´s just history. A new President has taken office, and with him many wonderfull changes will come!
