Author Topic: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)  (Read 21137 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline MegaByte

  • NWR Staff... Can't win trivia
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 31337
    • View Profile
    • Konfiskated Teknologies Network
Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« on: March 03, 2009, 01:54:10 AM »
Here's an interesting post by one of the top Wii hackers explaining just how horrible of a job Nintendo did in designing the Wii from a firmware perspective and why we're basically stuck with it until at least the next generation.

http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-will-never-get-any-better/
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 08:39:57 AM by Pale »
Aaron Kaluszka
Contributing Editor, Nintendo World Report

Offline Halbred

  • Staff Paleontologist, Ruiner of Worlds
  • NWR Staff
  • Score: 17
    • View Profile
    • When Pigs Fly Returns
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2009, 02:09:43 AM »
*sigh*

Thanks again, Nintendo, for obsessing about piracy and homebrew.
This would be my PSN Trophy Card, but I guess I can't post HTML in my Signature. I'm the pixel spaceship, and I have nine Gold trophies.

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2009, 02:20:57 AM »
That's better in a firmware sense, when I first read the title I thought you were going to present a claim that there will never be more good games on the Wii.

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2009, 02:23:43 AM »
This thread title is sensational.

They just added two new gameplay modes to Call of Duty: World at War on the Wii. I like the fact that the game has added things after release.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2009, 05:09:29 AM »
Lol, hacking doesn't improve my karting.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2009, 05:10:18 AM »
nor did have any hand in possibly improving Dead Rising
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2009, 05:10:53 AM »
hacking won't bring Earthbound to Wii
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2009, 05:12:13 AM »
i get real games on discs, and discs don't belong in fridges that have to be cleaned
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2009, 05:14:43 AM »
it's not like the wii's good for things outside of gaming
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2009, 05:17:20 AM »
oh man, i wish gamecube was upgradable so i could Double Dash online
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2009, 05:18:23 AM »
if i were to add a Wii Channel, it'd be the HAWTNESS CHANNEL
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2009, 05:19:47 AM »
i don't think nintendo knows what to do with more channels
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2009, 05:21:42 AM »
the hardcore surround themselves in multimonitors and multiple gfx cards and multivitamin cores, yet concern themselves over a last-gen casual soccer granmda fitness box
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 05:24:01 AM »
adding a DVD or Internet On Demand Video home-encoded pr0n video chanel won't improve Wii's stellar sales
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2009, 05:25:36 AM »
Adding a DVD or Internet On Demand Video home-encoded webblog video channel won't hurt Wii's stellar sales
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2009, 05:27:25 AM »
let's say firmware upgrades are actually successful, Ian's not going to buy more third party games
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2009, 05:30:34 AM »
Wii is in this for the long haul, and will resist good technology as long as PS3 bleeds cash

User was warned for this (and the above posts). You only needed one post to make this point. ~Pale
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 08:38:17 AM by Pale »
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Nick DiMola

  • Staff Alumnus
  • Score: 20
    • View Profile
    • PixlBit
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2009, 07:06:12 AM »
I don't find this too surprising, personally. It matches Nintendo's mantra about all of this, and thus doesn't really bother me. Whether the hardware/software prohibited updates of games, Nintendo's own philosophy would've prohibited it anyway.

I suspect that as with their systems in the past, their next system will at least match the offerings of their competitors from the generation past.  So I fully expect a more solid online architecture and a better designed OS (technically speaking not aesthetically). Hopefully they decide to leave out the 360's excellent feature, the RRoD.
Check out PixlBit!

Offline Deguello

  • Cards makes me ill.
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2009, 07:30:08 AM »
If you'll forgive me, but I tried reading that article and still came away unsure about the issues to which he was complaining.

I mean what, games won't get patched, something about firmware, hackers won't be able to install linux on something?  I've read my share of Wii hit pieces this generation, but this one by far is the most confusing.
It's time you saw the future while you still have human eyes.

... and those eyes see a 3DS system code : 2750-1598-3807

Offline Infernal Monkey

  • burly British nanny wrapped in a blender
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 07:38:50 AM »
Aw hell naw now we can't install useless bullshit on the Wii and developers won't be able to patch up their lazy mistakes this is terrible God damn Wii why are you such a video game console go wait in the car.

Offline Infernal Monkey

  • burly British nanny wrapped in a blender
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 07:41:13 AM »
*sigh*

Thanks again, Nintendo, for obsessing about piracy and homebrew.

lol yeah Nintendo you big dicks you are such big dicks Nintendo you are the biggest dicks now I cannot install egg timers and such on my Wii where are the games games games Nintendo hurf durf I am angry at you Nintendo you are ruining my freedom to steal video games.

Offline Infernal Monkey

  • burly British nanny wrapped in a blender
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 07:46:01 AM »


NINTEEEEENDOOOOOOOO!!!

User was warned for this (and the above) posts. Worthless spamming. ~Pale
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 08:39:34 AM by Pale »

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2009, 08:40:47 AM »
Modified thread title to talk about firmware.

Can we have a normal discussion without worthless spamming please?  Pro's point could have been made in a single post. I'm not sure Infernal had a point.
:: I was an active staffer forever ago, or was it yesterday. Time is an anomaly. Father of two boys.
---------------------
:: Grouvee :: Instagram

Offline Infernal Monkey

  • burly British nanny wrapped in a blender
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2009, 09:01:34 AM »
But like MegaByte I'm very angry Nintendo does not let me hack the Wii and install egg timers. It's an outrage.

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2009, 10:06:43 AM »
Every time I read an article like this it hammers home my only true beef with the Wii... that the lack of SD support, and in the larger sense, Virtual Console and WiiWare implementation sucks so badly.

To this day, downloadable games are my favorite part of the Wii.  Sure, I'm enjoying their main releases, but my gaming tastes have changed as my free time has shrunk and nostalgic and/or short gaming bursts are what make me the happiest at this point.

I think this really begs the question, were these design choices made intentionally, or is this evidence of a lack of experience at the system level by Nintendo's internal developers?
:: I was an active staffer forever ago, or was it yesterday. Time is an anomaly. Father of two boys.
---------------------
:: Grouvee :: Instagram

Offline Nick DiMola

  • Staff Alumnus
  • Score: 20
    • View Profile
    • PixlBit
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2009, 10:19:47 AM »
I think this really begs the question, were these design choices made intentionally, or is this evidence of a lack of experience at the system level by Nintendo's internal developers?

I think this is an excellent question to ask. From the description it seems like a bit of both. On one hand there appears to be a lack or foresight with the need to update every previous system update, but the general design of it seems like they meant for it to be the way it is.
Check out PixlBit!

Offline Flames_of_chaos

  • Dancing News Panda
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2009, 10:52:29 AM »
Pale I think part of it is intentional since the SD card is such a standard hot swappable medium that it can be used with practically any device with a SD reader since it's not a proprietary format, Nintendo had to implement some kind of anti piracy measure on it's downloadable games and DLC.

EDIT:
Also in a way PS3 games are the same way since a lot of games doesn't support exporting friends lists off of the XMB especially the early ones so I think it's a moot point to try to introduce something in a game that wasn't possible thanks to a future firmware update that no game developer could possibly foresee. So complaining that old Wii games that don't benefit these firmware updates is a moot point.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 11:07:34 AM by Flames_of_chaos »
PM me for DS and Wii game friend codes
Wii: 6564 0802 7064 2744
3DS: 4124-5011-7289
PSN: Flames_of_chaos XBL tag: Evulcorpse
http://twitter.com/flames_of_chaos/

Former NWR and PixlBit staff member.

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2009, 11:26:21 AM »
This has nothing to do with anti-piracy.  They could have easily treated the SD card as a true memory expansion and still implemented the same anti piracy measures.  Instead of decrypting on the copy, decrypt at play time.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for any of Nintendo's storage blunders this gen.  Even ignoring SD all together, putting in 2-4 gigs of internal flash memory would have barely made a dent in the manufacturing price.  It all just shows little to no concern for DLC or the Virtual Console in general. It's like they decided on the 512 number based solely on the size of game saves, which 512 megs can store a metric ton of.
:: I was an active staffer forever ago, or was it yesterday. Time is an anomaly. Father of two boys.
---------------------
:: Grouvee :: Instagram

Offline Flames_of_chaos

  • Dancing News Panda
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2009, 11:30:27 AM »
Well Pale on the good side Nintendo did hint that they have to do a firmware overhaul and some kind of menu system overhaul to make the storage solution work so we will just have to see what Nintendo cooked up in a few months also the DSi is in the same boat about managing storage except you have 256MB internal memory and it supports SDHC.
PM me for DS and Wii game friend codes
Wii: 6564 0802 7064 2744
3DS: 4124-5011-7289
PSN: Flames_of_chaos XBL tag: Evulcorpse
http://twitter.com/flames_of_chaos/

Former NWR and PixlBit staff member.

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2009, 11:45:52 AM »
I'm just totally skeptical of this supposed solution... god I hope I'm wrong though.

I've been tempted to get into homebrew so I could try programming my own solution based on option 3 that the author of this article talked about.

I have a sneaking suspicion it wouldn't be possible in the homebrew scene though, based on the fact that it hasn't been done yet.
:: I was an active staffer forever ago, or was it yesterday. Time is an anomaly. Father of two boys.
---------------------
:: Grouvee :: Instagram

Offline SirSniffy

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2009, 11:53:29 AM »
To this day, downloadable games are my favorite part of the Wii.  Sure, I'm enjoying their main releases, but my gaming tastes have changed as my free time has shrunk and nostalgic and/or short gaming bursts are what make me the happiest at this point.
This is how I have been for so long with the Wii. My friend used to tease me that I spent $200 on an emulator.

Back on topic, I wonder if all Nintendo's efforts to thwart piracy by way of "closed" console design has paid off for it? Haven't Nintendo consoles ALWAYS been designed to be "closed" to manipulations/ add ons?

On the surface simplicity...but the darkest pit in me...is Pagan Poetry...Pagan Poetry...

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2009, 12:31:50 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see what the huge deal is? Yeah it is kind of lame that patching isn't allowed, but beyond that what is the huge deal?
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline DAaaMan64

  • Winner of the Most Terrible Username Award
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2009, 12:42:06 PM »
Cause I want a real social experience all right there on my Wii.  I'm sorry to say this, but something more a long the line of XBL.

[spoilers]looks like I'm not walking down the right streets.[/spoilers]
FREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Marvel Heroes - Marvel Heroes
Frozen Shoe Games

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. For I am with me.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2009, 12:44:23 PM »
Cause I want a real social experience all right there on my Wii.  I'm sorry to say this, but something more a long the line of XBL.

[spoilers]looks like I'm not walking down the right streets.[/spoilers]

So you want to pay for it?
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 12:49:36 PM »
Hurray for the same old arguments!

I think another damning thing this article points out is that there is no way we can ever see Wii Speak patched into older games.
:: I was an active staffer forever ago, or was it yesterday. Time is an anomaly. Father of two boys.
---------------------
:: Grouvee :: Instagram

Offline UltimatePartyBear

  • Voice of Reason
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2009, 12:52:11 PM »
I don't even keep up with the homebrew scene and I already knew nearly everything ranted about in that article (I didn't know about IOS forking, but it's not exactly a surprise).  Was there supposed to be a point to it other than whining yet again that the Wii isn't a wannabe PC like the 360 and PS3?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 12:53:56 PM by UltimatePartyBear »

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2009, 12:53:18 PM »
I think everyone wants a very unique and fulfilling social experience on their Wii. I use to speculate about the vast potential of the Wii online experience. I remember we discussed the wiimote becoming a possible "phone", allowing friends to call you to come play; how video and chat could let friends peer into each others living rooms; and how easy friend management and friend tracking can help everyone stay in touch.

Alas, I believe we won't get these features this generation.
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2009, 12:57:34 PM »
I think everyone wants a very unique and fulfilling social experience on their Wii. I use to speculate about the vast potential of the Wii online experience. I remember we discussed the wiimote becoming a possible "phone", allowing friends to call you to come play; how video and chat could let friends peer into each others living rooms; and how easy friend management and friend tracking can help everyone stay in touch.

Alas, I believe we won't get these features this generation.

I never anticipated any of that (well except for the friend management, but is that necessarily squashed with this?) with Nintendos first real online system. It took MS a generation to get it right, and even after 2 generations Sony is still bumbling it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 01:02:44 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2009, 01:03:10 PM »
Ya maybe, but Nintendo has been about online since the NES. It may not seem like it, but they were once very enthusiastic about the possibilities.
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2009, 01:10:10 PM »
Ya maybe, but Nintendo has been about online since the NES. It may not seem like it, but they were once very enthusiastic about the possibilities.

Things have changed quite a bit since the NES days. They've dabbled in it but it wasn't until the Wii where they actually (tried) to embrace it.
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2009, 01:19:24 PM »
Fulfilling social experience?  Is Wii Bowling in a room full of grannies NOT ENOUGH?

But rest easy, everyone.  Nintendo has been slowly taking measures to develop interesting, desirable onrine, by making splitscreen gameplay UNDESIRABLE and DISCOURAGING other game makers from including it, as is the case with Mario Kart Wii and The Conduit.  By taking out those unnecessary features now, Nintendo can better focus on better functions next year.  To improve onrine, we have to destroy offrine (just like how they successfully destroyed traditional gaming).  This is sound planning, and should've been seen a mile away.

Nintendo is doing this all for YOU, yes, YOU, the customers that made yesterday's Nintendo so great today.  Nintendo knows and understands what the MAJORITY of its customers want, and knows how to deliver it.

Play it loud.

Get N or Get Out.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Flames_of_chaos

  • Dancing News Panda
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2009, 01:30:24 PM »
Fulfilling social experience?  Is Wii Bowling in a room full of grannies NOT ENOUGH?

But rest easy, everyone.  Nintendo has been slowly taking measures to develop interesting, desirable onrine, by making splitscreen gameplay UNDESIRABLE and DISCOURAGING other game makers from including it, as is the case with Mario Kart Wii and The Conduit.  By taking out those unnecessary features now, Nintendo can better focus on better functions next year.  To improve onrine, we have to destroy offrine (just like how they successfully destroyed traditional gaming).  This is sound planning, and should've been seen a mile away.

Nintendo is doing this all for YOU, yes, YOU, the customers that made yesterday's Nintendo so great today.  Nintendo knows and understands what the MAJORITY of its customers want, and knows how to deliver it.

Play it loud.

Get N or Get Out.

The irony is Mario Kart Wii allows a guest player online and a couple of Wii online games enable this exact features.
PM me for DS and Wii game friend codes
Wii: 6564 0802 7064 2744
3DS: 4124-5011-7289
PSN: Flames_of_chaos XBL tag: Evulcorpse
http://twitter.com/flames_of_chaos/

Former NWR and PixlBit staff member.

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2009, 01:41:26 PM »
U-G-H

Why the Nintendo World Report will never get any better (Negative attitudes driving away visitors Related)

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2009, 01:43:04 PM »
By allowing a guest racer, Mario Kart Wii can show not one, but TWO PLAYERS how awful the splitscreen is!  A cunning tactic, Nintendo.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2009, 01:47:59 PM »
Why can't we have cake and eat it too?
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2009, 01:54:58 PM »
Why do bad things happen to good people? Why doesn't the Wii come with an Open-Source OS pre-installed?

Offline Infernal Monkey

  • burly British nanny wrapped in a blender
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2009, 06:50:42 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see what the huge deal is? Yeah it is kind of lame that patching isn't allowed, but beyond that what is the huge deal?

Don't you see, GP, Wii doesn't allow egg timers to be installed by pira-home brew enthusiasts. How will people ever be able to tell when their eggs are ready. It's why the Wii is a gimmick fad for grandma children. Also what happens when a developer releases a game that has no gameplay? They can't just patch it in like they can with PS3/PC/360!

Nintendo's ruined the God damn industry.



NINTENDOOOOOOOOOO! Where are the games games games.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 06:57:42 PM by Infernal Monkey »

Offline Halbred

  • Staff Paleontologist, Ruiner of Worlds
  • NWR Staff
  • Score: 17
    • View Profile
    • When Pigs Fly Returns
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2009, 07:01:00 PM »
Well, Nintendo's never made an OS before for a console, so part of the problem is probably lack of experience. Hopefully they'll learn from the mistakes of this generation. But I think another very large part is that Nintendo is and has been intentionally going the opposite way of the other companies (Sony and MS). Virtually every part of the Wii is a counterpoint to the philosophies of Sony and MS, to the point where MS is now jumping on the Nintendo bandwagon (family crap, avatars).

Nintendo may have stubbornly designed the Wii in order to BE different from the 360 and PS3. It targets a different audience, if not by philosophy then by default.
This would be my PSN Trophy Card, but I guess I can't post HTML in my Signature. I'm the pixel spaceship, and I have nine Gold trophies.

Offline ThePerm

  • predicted it first.
  • Score: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2009, 07:38:21 PM »
Why do bad things happen to good people? Why doesn't the Wii...

because
Ms and Sony doe what Nintendon't
NWR has permission to use any tentative mockup/artwork I post

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2009, 07:52:12 PM »
Quote
I think this really begs the question, were these design choices made intentionally, or is this evidence of a lack of experience at the system level by Nintendo's internal developers?

Nintendo tends to make the really DUMB design choices when it involves something someone else did first.  But when they come up with the idea themselves Nintendo just nails it.  So I've always assumed that Nintendo has a severe complex about admitting that competing companies have good ideas too.  If someone else did it first they always do it a really weird way and inevitably **** it up since they're trying to reinvent the wheel.  Sounds like stupid business sense but I can't think of any other reason for it.  And they ALWAYS do it.  Maybe it's a Japanese culture thing.

Offline DAaaMan64

  • Winner of the Most Terrible Username Award
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2009, 07:52:41 PM »
Cause I want a real social experience all right there on my Wii.  I'm sorry to say this, but something more a long the line of XBL.

[spoilers]looks like I'm not walking down the right streets.[/spoilers]

So you want to pay for it?

50 bucks a year for a games worth of social experiences isn't that bad. I'd pay.  We should just have the option.  Like XBL.
FREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Marvel Heroes - Marvel Heroes
Frozen Shoe Games

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. For I am with me.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2009, 08:06:25 PM »
This thread is a cornucopia of social experiences.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Mop it up

  • And I've gotta say...
  • Score: 125
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2009, 08:12:44 PM »
Whatever happened to the "Pay to Play" concept that Nintendo unveiled a while ago? Wasn't that going to be a more robust online service, or did it become something else?

Patches are a double-edged sword. While it is nice to be able to fix bugs which somehow sneaked past testing, it also encourages laziness because it allows publishers to rush a title out the door and fix it later. If I recall rightly, less than half of all Wii owners don't have their systems connected to the Internet, meaning that many people could get stuck with a "broken" or "unfinished" game. If bugs aren't game-breaking then they can also be fixed in later retail versions; Super Smash Brothers Melee had a few glitches fixed up shortly after its release.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2009, 08:42:00 PM »
I despise patches. In previous generations, there were no do-overs and Nintendo still released tons of games with few to no glitches. Nintendo would rather re-start development or delay a game than release it a shoddy product. That's the kind of attitude I respect Nintendo for. Other companies should take note. Sure, delays suck, but in the end, I'd rather have a game that doesn't require fixing.

I'm also against downloadable content. For example, Capcom is charging $4 for costume packs and there are 5 of them. So a $60 suddenly becomes a potentially $80 game (for now). What the Christ? Of course, no one absolutely has to buy that stuff, but Capcom planned this and I can't shake the thought that this stuff should have been in the game already.

Offline EasyCure

  • wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle, yeah!
  • Score: 75
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2009, 09:08:10 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see what the huge deal is? Yeah it is kind of lame that patching isn't allowed, but beyond that what is the huge deal?

Don't you see, GP, Wii doesn't allow egg timers to be installed by pira-home brew enthusiasts. How will people ever be able to tell when their eggs are ready. It's why the Wii is a gimmick fad for grandma children. Also what happens when a developer releases a game that has no gameplay? They can't just patch it in like they can with PS3/PC/360!

Nintendo's ruined the God damn industry.

hmmm....

February 07, 2003, 02:35:52 PM
EASYCURE: I remember thinking(don't ask me why) this was a blond haired, blue eyed, chiseled athlete. Like he looked like Seigfried before he became Nightmare.

Offline NWR_Lindy

  • Famous Rapper
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2009, 09:47:01 PM »
I despise patches. In previous generations, there were no do-overs and Nintendo still released tons of games with few to no glitches. Nintendo would rather re-start development or delay a game than release it a shoddy product. That's the kind of attitude I respect Nintendo for. Other companies should take note. Sure, delays suck, but in the end, I'd rather have a game that doesn't require fixing.

If the delay is for some stupid obscure bug that I'll never see, then I'd rather get the game earlier and patch later.  Patches cost me nothing.  Oh, there's a patch?  Go grab a beer.
Jon Lindemann
Contributing Editor, Nintendo World Report

My Game Backlog

Offline King of Twitch

  • twitch.tv/zapr2k i live for this
  • Score: 141
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2009, 09:54:03 PM »
Don't the patches take up part of yarrr internal memory, matey?
"I deem his stream to be supreme and highly esteem his Fortnite team!" - The Doritos Pope and his Mountain Dew Crew.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2009, 10:19:02 PM »
Less room in yor fridgidaire
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Shift Key

  • MISTER HAPPY-GO-LUCKY
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2009, 08:15:15 AM »
Perhaps this is the lapsed gamer in me, but I read through that article twice and the only coherent points in there are:

- Don't expect a NXE-style UI overhaul between now and the Wii2
- Nintendo are making homebrew gamers' lives miserable.

All of which are bloody obvious. How did this get dragged out to three pages?

Of course Nintendo are going to be limited by their current hardware (and to a lesser extent, the system architecture). Its closer to an embedded architecture than it is to a general-purpose architecture like the 360 and the PS3 (don't play the Von Neumann card, you know what I mean), so they are working with a stricter set of constraints.

Sure, I was as pissed off as the next guy about their storage solution (treat it like a fridge?) but its not suddenly going to be "External Devices Free-For-All" day for Wii gamers - you know as well as I do that Ninty are stubborn about making changes - see 64DD, Twilight Princess - no matter what the backlash from the hardcore core whatever name you call them now gamers.

Other complaints from here (I can't be bothered quoting or even reading this whole thing, so if these are misguided or just plain wrong, troll back):
- The "Sony and Microsoft fighting for the living room space" by pushing out updates to the OS and UI, let them continue this silly trend. The only people who care about stuff like that are the current owners, and they're already a captive audience. I'm not buying a 360 because they suddenly added the ability to create an avatar - there's free MMOs for people who need that sort of fix.

- No way to apply features like Wii Speak support retroactively to games? So what - they'll probably release another one with slightly upgraded visuals, slap a year on the end, and get you to pay the same price again in 12 months. Oh, you didn't want to third parties to succeed - you just wanted more for free...

- Patching games after release - what happened to testing the thing before going gold? That how it happened in the old days. What? Games are more complex, bigger budgets, tighter deadlines, and now Dyack is chasing you with a blunt instrument? Well whose fault is that? I didn't ask for a mini-movie in the middle of each level. Get back to work! I'm fine with the "improvements to netcode" class of patches, but if its a game that can be played through in its entirety on ONE system, there is no excuse for a good testing process.

- The homebrew/piracy scene - stop complaining. You are free to do whatever you want with the machine, but you aren't entitled to an easy ride. If they're obfuscating the system to your hindrance, that's their choice. Why not put two Gamecubes together with duct tape and pretend to take that apart instead? You can break it to your hearts content and then throw it out when you realise you don't know how to put it back together again.

Offline mac<censored>

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2009, 09:03:55 AM »
All of which are bloody obvious. How did this get dragged out to three pages?

Well if there's one constant through the many ages of man, it's People Love to Whine...

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2009, 11:54:18 AM »
Shift Key speaks truth.

Offline redgiemental

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2009, 12:29:55 PM »
So Nintendo has implemented things in such a way as to make offering some simple things to their customers impossible.

Their two competitors have avoided this problem and have served their customers better on this front.

but because it doesn't surprise Shift Key that makes it alright.

Glad that is sorted.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 08:12:25 PM by redgiemental »

Offline Spak-Spang

  • The Frightened Fox
  • Score: 39
    • View Profile
    • MirandaNew.com
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2009, 05:53:51 PM »
I can understand the complaints that the Wii's limitations end up preventing Nintendo from doing any big updates with the system to help create a better experience.  But, then I ask does it really matter?  Most people don't care and prefer the simplicity of the Wii.

Yes, it means we will have some problems with some of the Wii nuances but you have that with any system...and Nintendo is just trying to protect its interests against pirating and homebrew which shouldn't be encouraged anyway.

The article in the end comes across as a bit whiny.  Hopefully the Wii 2 or whatever it is, will be a better experience, but if not oh well.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2009, 06:17:12 PM »
Dinky Internal Flash VS. RROD

VOTING BEGINS NOW
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2009, 06:33:49 PM »
If the delay is for some stupid obscure bug that I'll never see, then I'd rather get the game earlier and patch later.  Patches cost me nothing.  Oh, there's a patch?  Go grab a beer.
If it needs fixing, it's broken. Make it right the first time and there will be no need for patches. And where do companies draw the line? The "Oh, we'll just patch it later" attitude is one that will inevitably become worse over time. Eventually (assuming we don't already) we'll see games that companies know are broken and broken badly, but are rush to stores anyway because they know a solution is just a patch away. That's a sh*tty attitude to have, but it's where we're heading.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2009, 06:58:30 PM »
Let's recall how Tecmo released DOA4 with a game-save-deleting bug.  Whoa.

Another crappy instance is Hitman 2 on GameCube:  if there's too many dead people in one stage (ragdoll corpses that have a specific location and do not disappear) the mid-mission game save will fail, resulting in a corrupt save file on the memory card (gotta delete and start over, bah).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 07:03:27 PM by NinGurl69 *huggles »
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Shift Key

  • MISTER HAPPY-GO-LUCKY
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2009, 05:56:44 AM »
So Nintendo has implemented things in such a way as to make offering some simple things to their customers impossible.

Their two competitors have avoided this problem and have served their customers better on this front.

but because it doesn't surprise Shift Key that makes it alright.

Glad that is sorted.

I find this response hilarious. Who are you again? Nevermind, I don't have time for your life story. Lets get down to the brass tacks.

1) Enlighten me to these "simple things" which are simply impossible to achieve. Aside from it being a games console, everything else is an addon to the core. Storage, features, patches, free ****. Its merely decoration to the simple fact that you bought the console to play games - most likely Nintendo games. The fact that people run around saying "X* is wrong with the Wii", but the majority think that X as a non-issue - and I've got the sales data to prove this, what have you go? -  is a good indicator that some people can't see the forest for the trees. And this effect is magnified by the vocal minority, who carry a chip on their shoulder and their own soapbox so that they can spew this nonsense, at every opportunity, in the general direction of anyone who might care.

* Put in your own value for X - there's a laundry list of things in this thread alone that can go there. Think back to the start. Think back to E3. Remember everything that people complained about? Good times, weren't they? Let the nostalgia envelop you. We can wait...

All good? Next point.

2) How can you say with a straight face that the others "served their customers better" ? Are you choosing to ignore that drawn out RROD debacle - which it turned out was by design and far from an isolated problem - and Sony screwing up the backwards compatibility with challenger number 3?

I got rid of my PS2 before the Wii came out, and was planning to get a PS3 at some stage, but now they've managed to turn me off completely and so my large PS2 library sits at home, unplayed. And I've been meaning to get a 360 for ages, but even now I find that easier to put off despite the guarantee around replacing my console if it breaks. Hah, if.

Of course, I'm only a potential customer to "the others" (not even a real statistic, I know), but its **** like that that makes me glad I've got a simple console to play when the urge hits. I don't need to worry about ensuring that my console is correctly ventilated (or the fact that IF I POSITION IT UPRIGHT I'M BASICALLY ASKING FOR IT TO SCRATCH MY DISCS) or that my copy of "INSERT OBSCURE PS2 TITLE" here may or may not play on my lobotomised PAL console - its like a game of chance, except I already lost my winnings on the griller prize and am subjected to play this game for all eternity.

I think I'm going to punch the next person who says "next-gen console" to my face - that term annoys me so, and not just for the undertones that "Its a machine from the future! and its here! Today! What's your excuse, lamer?"

3) I am not an oracle or a witch or a seer to the future. I'm just a guy who's seen this **** before. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. If you think complaining on a forum about this stuff is going to fix it, you've got a lot to learn. But of course, you weren't doing that. You were just trolling. Bravo, the cool kids are impressed by stuff like that.

Go outside.

PS Cute username. I'm going to call you wedgiemental from here on in.

Offline redgiemental

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2009, 06:14:45 AM »
Are you arguing for patches Ningurl?
You're making a good case.

I don't particularly like the patching culture but it beats having to send my disc back. Which is what happened when I got to a game breaking bug in Super Paper Mario.

I wasn't aware new Mario Kart and Smash Bros games were coming out next year Shift Key. Glad I'll be able to use basic online features like voice chat with them next year.

Spak-Spang the way the Wii software infrastructure is now helps pirates and homebrewer's by making it harder for Nintendo to close exploits. "it took them well over half a year to fix the fakesigning exploit and ship the IOS updates for all 23 versions". So it isn't to help combat piracy in fact quite the opposite. I never hear of anyone being able to install hacked unpaid for XBLA games on their 360 but I do hear about people installing hacked VC titles for example.

I said on this front not in general Shift Key can you read? Yes Sony and Microsoft have made bad choices in other areas that doesn't mean it nullifies Nintendo's.

I don't have a PS3 but I am a little annoyed that it doesn't have BC. My 360 is still functioning but that doesn't mean RRoD isn't a worry I could do without. I'll also add the 360's half hearted BC is a fly in the ointment too.

However both of Nintendo's competitors have gone with the more sensible option of an open system they have change and improve at any time. So it's fair game to criticise Nintendo for doing a worse job.

Offline Shift Key

  • MISTER HAPPY-GO-LUCKY
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2009, 08:15:19 AM »
I wasn't aware new Mario Kart and Smash Bros games were coming out next year Shift Key. Glad I'll be able to use basic online features like voice chat with them next year.

I see what you did there! And with such wit. I am humbled by your wordsmanship.

See that? Two can play at the sarcasm game, wise guy. For the record, voice chat on XBL has given me the opportunity to endure trash-talking from teenagers who demonstrate limited vocabularies (and who do not appreciate the fine insults like "miserable toerag"). I can't wait for that sort of experience to come to the Wii. Oh damn, you caught me. Sarcasm again!

For all I care, AC can be the only game that uses it, and there will be much rejoicing because the teenage girls playing it will love it and I'll be elsewhere, not caring about voice chat. Because I prefer multiplayer games with people in the same room - it makes victory snatched from the jaws of defeat all the sweeter when the losers can't mute my celebratory cussing.

I said on this front not in general Shift Key can you read? Yes Sony and Microsoft have made bad choices in other areas that doesn't mean it nullifies Nintendo's.

Au contraire, my funnily-named friend. You're skewing the playing field in favour of what I consider to be a minor thing. If we consider this as one situation (and not several fronts, this isn't Normandy) then the sins of the gaming outweigh the sins of the firmware.

However both of Nintendo's competitors have gone with the more sensible option of an open system they have change and improve at any time. So it's fair game to criticise Nintendo for doing a worse job.

Dear me, you haven't been paying attention. Still can't see the trees for the forest.

Sure, in bizarro world where "open systems" matter and games don't, the others might be winning in terms of third-part support, marketshare, revenue, moneyhats, rap battles, whatever metric matters to the precious industry. But this is the vidya game industry, and any and all criticisms should be weighted up against that simple measuring stick.

Does it change my gaming experience for the better? This isn't simply a contest of "haves" and "have-nots". I consider firmware to be a moot point in all this - pretty colours and shiny things given to distract people from the fact that they're not playing vidya games. Perhaps you think differently, but I remember the days when the firmware was so basic that they NEVER UPDATED IT, and the only time spent using the console without playing vidya games was the few seconds when you watched the loading screens pass.

But no, these days I've got to go through bloody menu systems three deep in order to get to the actual game, and woe betide any time I need to change the configuration of the system, because then i'll have to go through an illogical menu system to do simple things like changing screen resolutions. And even though we've moved to disc-based media and faster processors and more memory (damn you Moore, you'll pay for this), we've got MORE ingame loading and MORE company graphics before the title distracting from the actual vidya games.

But having complex firmware that can change at will, that's a good thing? No, its not. Its symptomatic of components of the industry focusing on things other than the games. I'm sure I've taken you way out of context, but you seem to be a broken record that Nintendo is responsible for some dud firmware. So jump in and correct me, I can't wait for your next rambling post.

Offline redgiemental

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2009, 09:47:10 AM »
I too prefer local multiplayer, it is more fun and I love having a few friends over for some beers and a game night.

Though I often play old friends of mine via Xbox Live and it's a lot of fun to have a few games of something and have a little bit of teasing and ribbing with people I don't live particularly close to anymore.

Quite a few of those same friends also have Wii and Mario Kart was always a multiplayer favourite back in the day. Playing Mario Kart online on Wii just feels sterile in comparison and we barely play it compared to XBL.

It's not just voice chat either the lack of system wide operating system means I can't turn on my Wii and see that a few of my friends are playing X game and jump right in. What was the point in adding them as Wii friends outside games again?

I'm not arguing Nintendo's sins versus Sony's or Microsoft. This is a thread about the Wii's firmware set up. I was talking about FIRMWARE not having a whole console showdown like you seem to want to do.

Open and fixable is not the same as complex. I've made no arguement for complex or asked that the Wii plays movies or anything like that.

I've merely commented on areas where it directly affects my enjoyment of GAMES.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 09:51:01 AM by redgiemental »

Offline Nick DiMola

  • Staff Alumnus
  • Score: 20
    • View Profile
    • PixlBit
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2009, 09:50:12 AM »
Just because people have differing visions of what a console should and should not offer doesn't mean one person is right or wrong.

Tone it down guys, you're all taking something pretty meaningless way too serious.
Check out PixlBit!

Offline Plugabugz

  • *continues waiting*
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2009, 10:07:51 AM »
So can i ask. What does the Wii operating system (if you want to call it that) do right?

The phrase about "never building your house upon the sand" seems to fit here.

Offline Dasmos

  • Needs Him Some Tang in His Lollies
  • Score: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2009, 10:10:00 AM »
Quite a few of those same friends also have Wii and Mario Kart was always a multiplayer favourite back in the day. Playing Mario Kart online on Wii just feels sterile in comparison and we barely play it compared to XBL.

You picked the wrong online game to rag on. Mario Kart Wii's online has everything you need. The only things omitted are redundant features like voice chat.

Quote
It's not just voice chat either the lack of system wide operating system means I can't turn on my Wii and see that a few of my friends are playing X game and jump right in.


You can do that in Mario Kart.

Quote
What was the point in adding them as Wii friends outside games again?

I've added both my Auntie's Wii numbers to my Wii, I can send them photos, VC console games, Mii's and messages, but I don't want to play her in anything online. They suck at online games.
Images are not allowed in signatures. That includes moving images (video).

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2009, 10:26:35 AM »
To be fair Dasmos, you can only see if they are playing if you load up the Mario Kart Channel.

On the 360, you get notified that someone came online, then you can see what they are playing from the pause menu of any game.

I understand that many people don't care about these features, but for those that do, hearing that (in this writer's opinion) it is basically impossible for Nintendo to add them this generation is a pretty frustrating thing, as its something a lot of people were holding out hope for.
:: I was an active staffer forever ago, or was it yesterday. Time is an anomaly. Father of two boys.
---------------------
:: Grouvee :: Instagram

Offline redgiemental

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2009, 10:58:12 AM »
Thank you Pale.. There are other Wii games they could be playing online too that aren't Mario Kart.

For me Dasmos voice chat is not redundant feature, the lack of it in Mario Kart is the primary reason I don't play a game I otherwise really enjoy. I like to play online with actual real-life friends and voice chat really is a big part of the enjoyment.

Fair point on the Wii system friends but it does seem silly not to have that connected to the games too.

The voice chat feature could easily have been added to Mario Kart if Nintendo had adopted a different a less restrictive system. Bottom line.

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2009, 11:20:19 AM »
I'm pretty sure I would rebuy Mario Kart if they reprinted the game entirely but added voice support. That is of course, if all of my friends that I play with were willing to do the same, otherwise it would be pointless.
:: I was an active staffer forever ago, or was it yesterday. Time is an anomaly. Father of two boys.
---------------------
:: Grouvee :: Instagram

Offline Spak-Spang

  • The Frightened Fox
  • Score: 39
    • View Profile
    • MirandaNew.com
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2009, 12:57:46 PM »
I love the idea of Wii Speak allowing everyone in the room the opportunity to talk...it is much smarter than headsets.  But, Nintendo should of figured a way to make the chat available for all games...that would have been awesome.

Oh well, I will not be playing online games unless it has voice chat support...that is what makes it fun and not just racing/fighting better NPCs. 

I guess I will have to wait until next system for Nintendo to get that right.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2009, 01:25:31 PM »
People should admit they require conversation to enjoy games.  That's not the fault of the game, the game is a medium/excuse for conversing (or voice trolling).

It simply shows:  they don't really enjoy the games.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2009, 04:43:16 PM »
So can i ask. What does the Wii operating system (if you want to call it that) do right?
It boots up Wii games.... and without crashing.
I love the idea of Wii Speak allowing everyone in the room the opportunity to talk...it is much smarter than headsets.
If everyone gets a headset, everyone playing the game can be heard which I thought is the whole point of voice chat. If you're not playing the game, I don't give a sh*t what you have to say. Still, Wii Speak is better than no voice chat whatsoever. Feast or famine, I guess.

Of course, headsets for everyone can be pricey. At the same time, once WiiMotion Plus drops, we're looking at the world's first $80 home console controller. MP is basically Nintendo patching the Wii remote. See what I di... nevermind.
Quote
Oh well, I will not be playing online games unless it has voice chat support...that is what makes it fun and not just racing/fighting better NPCs.
Truth which is why I still prefer local multiplayer. To be fair, I'll always prefer local multiplayer, but when that's not an option, knowing the person I'm playing with/against and being able to strategize/taunt is the next best thing.

Offline redgiemental

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2009, 06:23:13 PM »
Nintendo couldn't figure out a way to put Wii Speak in because they tied their own hands with their implementation of the firmware.. They coded themselves into a corner in that sense Spik Spang.

Offline Plugabugz

  • *continues waiting*
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2009, 07:23:49 PM »
So can i ask. What does the Wii operating system (if you want to call it that) do right?
It boots up Wii games.... and without crashing.

Great. That's one thing they're doing right then.

Everyone should remember that, like with online, this is their first actual "interactive" system software on a console. Sony had the PSP to build on the XMB and Microsoft had Xbox Live (and all of the Windows GUI experience) to build from. So comparing them isn't strictly fair.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 04:46:33 AM by Plugabugz »

Offline Deguello

  • Cards makes me ill.
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2009, 11:14:07 PM »
I wonder why nobody complained about this on the DS.
It's time you saw the future while you still have human eyes.

... and those eyes see a 3DS system code : 2750-1598-3807

Offline Dasmos

  • Needs Him Some Tang in His Lollies
  • Score: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2009, 11:21:26 PM »
Nintendo would never implement Wii Speak into a game likie Mario Kart. Or if they did it would be among firend-coded people only.
Images are not allowed in signatures. That includes moving images (video).

Offline NWR_insanolord

  • Rocket Fuel Malt Liquor....DAMN!
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: -18986
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2009, 12:14:20 AM »
Nintendo will never implement voice chat for people who aren't registered friends no matter what the game is on any game system they ever make.
Insanolord is a terrible moderator.

J.P. Corbran
NWR Community Manager and Soccer Correspondent

Offline Mop it up

  • And I've gotta say...
  • Score: 125
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2009, 01:45:17 AM »
I wonder why nobody complained about this on the DS.
Because people like to crap on the Wii, it's the "hip" thing to do. Even although I'm not too fond of the Wii, I'm seriously considering becoming a blind Wii fanboi just because there are so few of them.

The DS has a microphone built-in so it could theoretically have voice chat without needing an accessory. Maybe it can't though, and that's why no game has done it...

Offline DAaaMan64

  • Winner of the Most Terrible Username Award
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2009, 04:29:58 AM »
I wonder why nobody complained about this on the DS.

Well I would. If I played the machine online.
FREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Marvel Heroes - Marvel Heroes
Frozen Shoe Games

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. For I am with me.

Offline NWR_insanolord

  • Rocket Fuel Malt Liquor....DAMN!
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: -18986
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2009, 05:06:26 AM »
I wonder why nobody complained about this on the DS.
Because people like to crap on the Wii, it's the "hip" thing to do. Even although I'm not too fond of the Wii, I'm seriously considering becoming a blind Wii fanboi just because there are so few of them.

The DS has a microphone built-in so it could theoretically have voice chat without needing an accessory. Maybe it can't though, and that's why no game has done it...

Plenty of online DS games have voice chat, I think he's saying that nobody's complaining that they can't go back and add it to Mario Kart and Animal Crossing.
Insanolord is a terrible moderator.

J.P. Corbran
NWR Community Manager and Soccer Correspondent

Offline Deguello

  • Cards makes me ill.
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2009, 05:09:22 AM »
I'm not talking about voice chat.  I'm talking about the hoopla about all this firmware crap and updates and stuff.

I know my feelings on the whole issue were cemented when the DS started getting this non-stop avalanche of rock-jawesome games and the top story on many PSP sites for months was something about new firmware being released and now PSP owners could play .ogg speech files or something.  It was like there were two sets of gamers, one interested in playing rock-jawesome games, and another that wanted to do everything on their PSP except play games.  That's why I tend to roll my eyes upward whenever I hear somebody going on about firmware.

While firmware updates are neat sometimes, they really aren't a big deal at all.  I'd rather they put those people on making more games.  I like games.  I don't care much about the OS, so long as it stays out of the way most of the time, like Shift Key said.
It's time you saw the future while you still have human eyes.

... and those eyes see a 3DS system code : 2750-1598-3807

Offline Plugabugz

  • *continues waiting*
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2009, 07:58:12 AM »
I understand that keeping it simple has its benefits, but opting for the "disc-controlled functionality" model wrecks backwards compatibility with Wii games while at the same time limiting their ability to rewrite things for virtually any reason.

I'm sure if they increased the capacity to 1GB and then left 512mb aside for firmware, then using that space for feature space so things like wii speak can be added on at will. I guess i'm saying Nintendo should model the Firefox and the extensions API in future.

But they won't coz, to them at least, it ain't broken.

Offline DAaaMan64

  • Winner of the Most Terrible Username Award
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2009, 01:23:50 PM »
Hell, talking to the support people here in Redmond, they say one of their hardest challenges is making sure developers have actually PUT THE HOME MENU in correctly into their games.   That's correct, every developer puts those in manually, they aren't a built in part of the Wii. Thats a good expression to how totally not dynamic the firmware is.
FREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Marvel Heroes - Marvel Heroes
Frozen Shoe Games

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. For I am with me.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

  • Voice of Reason
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2009, 04:10:15 PM »
I wonder why nobody complained about this on the DS.

People used to whine about Pictochat (back when they remembered it existed) not being online and needing a firmware update.  Nintendo never released any firmware updates for the DS -- since that's impossible -- to give them the wrong impression, so the futility actually sank in for once.


I'm sure if they increased the capacity to 1GB and then left 512mb aside for firmware, then using that space for feature space so things like wii speak can be added on at will. I guess i'm saying Nintendo should model the Firefox and the extensions API in future.

Simply having space for the firmware wouldn't solve anything.  To have features that work regardless of the game running, the features have to be a part of an operating system that runs constantly, managing communication between the game software and the console hardware in addition to handling all those features.  There are several disadvantages to doing that.  First of all, big chunks of RAM and processor cycles are required just for the OS, so you've basically made the system less powerful when it comes to games.  To make matters worse, you've outlawed all kinds of programming tricks that could have been used to help games run better, because the game software can't have direct access to the hardware anymore; it might conflict with the OS if it did.  The Wii is already less powerful than the competition, and you'd probably lose about a Dreamcast's worth of power for that kind of OS on the Wii (Dreamcast is the official SI unit of video game console power).  That would make it roughly a Gamecube taped to a PS2, a couple of N64s , and an Atari 5200.

Offline vudu

  • You'd probably all be better off if I really were dead.
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: -19
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2009, 04:19:34 PM »
I wonder why nobody complained about this on the DS.

If most people are like me they completely forget that the DS even has firmware.  I've had my system set to auto-boot the game since the second day I got it.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline ThePerm

  • predicted it first.
  • Score: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2009, 06:07:29 PM »
Quite a few of those same friends also have Wii and Mario Kart was always a multiplayer favourite back in the day. Playing Mario Kart online on Wii just feels sterile in comparison and we barely play it compared to XBL.

You picked the wrong online game to rag on. Mario Kart Wii's online has everything you need. The only things omitted are redundant features like voice chat.

Quote
It's not just voice chat either the lack of system wide operating system means I can't turn on my Wii and see that a few of my friends are playing X game and jump right in.


You can do that in Mario Kart.

Quote
What was the point in adding them as Wii friends outside games again?

I've added both my Auntie's Wii numbers to my Wii, I can send them photos, VC console games, Mii's and messages, but I don't want to play her in anything online. They suck at online games.

when he uses X game he means whichever online game they are  playing, not the one you happen to be playing. Say their playing wacky racers and another person is playing penguin cart, well you know you want to play penguin cart more than wacky racers. so you jump right in.
NWR has permission to use any tentative mockup/artwork I post

Offline Spak-Spang

  • The Frightened Fox
  • Score: 39
    • View Profile
    • MirandaNew.com
Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2009, 06:46:10 PM »
How often have you played a game on Xbox live at a friends house and your friend has the head set so hears everything and you are playing right beside him and can't talk or even hear the others plans.  You are neutered.

Wii Speak fixes that problem.  Everyone playing in the room can talk and interact.  Yes, it is not perfect, but it prevents the need for expensive headsets for everyone playing.

That was my only point, which I think was lost in the conversation.