From what I can tell, they are hoping to find a loophole in the law so that they can break the law without any consequences.
With a large enough political donation to the right elected official you can break the law without any consequences anyway HEYO!!! GET THE POLITICS IN BEFORE KHUSH WEEK
(Don't get the politics in before Khush week or any other week. Not everything needs to be political. Your mom is a political)
Title: Re: Can we laugh at the Sovereign Citizen movement,
Post by: Order.RSS on August 14, 2018, 11:47:05 AM
What in the world are these people hoping to accomplish?
Semi-serious answer: I guess they kiiiiinda have a point that it's basically impossible to choose to be a non-state citizen, without moving to like, Antarctica/the high seas/the Moon. Living in a state tends to come with obligations towards that state (taxes, expectation of being held to said state's laws), but because nation-states are so prolific and basically cover most of the habitable Earth, you can't really opt out of those obligations.
In practice, the only benefits of being a sovereign citizen would be precisely that - the ability to break laws and duck taxes. (Well, I guess you might feel super empowered or whatever, being sovereign and all.) That said, these people probably still wanna use roads, public courts, hospitals, maybe schools - so it's not like they're prepared to completely opt out of public life. Seems like they want to enjoy benefits of modern states without contributing to them by paying tax and obeying laws? I wonder if the movement has sincere believers, or if most of them are like the guy here trying to get out of a DUI haha.
Title: Re: Can we laugh at the Sovereign Citizen movement,
Post by: Stratos on August 14, 2018, 01:07:45 PM
Thanks for the answers. Only thing I saw possibly happening was the guy tripping up the judge into making an error that got him out on a technicality, but that judge wasn't having any of that nonsense.
Adversely, now that I watched those videos, YouTube thinks I'm all about watching these clowns.
Title: Re: Can we laugh at the Sovereign Citizen movement,
Post by: oohhboy on August 20, 2018, 10:59:57 AM
Mostly just attempting tax evasion and fines. I haven't seen one claim Sovereign Citizen for murder.
They should grant them stateless persons status sometime. Refugees are a level above that in many ways. But the paper work wouldn't be worth it.
If you are super lucky you get stuck in an airport which give you comfort and options well above your typical refugee. Laws of the state you currently reside in still apply and what protections you get are bases on international treatise/conventions which have varying levels of compliance.
Outside of an airport is LOL. SC would actually giving up a lot of rights and protections of being a citizen yet have no more ability than before to break laws of the land.
People can't be a nation state without force of arms, a nuke might do it if you could defend that which again falls under force of arms. Or a security guarantee (Taiwan satisfies both) EU, NATO to enforce their own laws or prevent invasion. Diplomatic immunity isn't automatically extended.
Nowhere else would give SC's the time of day even for some amusement so I am not sure why US judges are willing to humour them so often.
If they are really serious the closet they can get is living in a remote isolated wildness like tribes in the Amazon which do have a security guarantee of sort from Brazil, have most of the powers of a nation state without technically being one. Somalia during anarchy.
Nation States is a sort of a derivative as it is fundamentally civilisation.
