Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles Wii / 3DS / Definitive Edition

[noname2200]

Major Spoilers

Seriously, the part where Shulk stops Dunban from killing Mumkhar made me want to throw up.  This is the scene that completely ruined Shulks character for me and turned him into the usual pussy JRPG hero.  Mumkhar was a monster who enjoyed working with the Mechon to kill all those innocent people.  He's the one who stabbed Fiora and killed Melia's Father and even admitted to doing this while all under his own free will.  This was a guy with absolutely nothing redeemable at all and yet right when Dunban is about to rightfully punish Mumkhar for his crimes, Shulk stops him. 

And Shulks reason, only the fact that Mumkhar was a Homs like them and said Homs shouldn't kill other Homs.  So when Shulk though Metal Face was a machine he had no problem trying to kill him but as soon as he finds out he's a Hom's, that makes him not want to kill him.  What a load of fucking bullshit.

Oh and don't even get me started on the Egil ****.  Dude was basically Hitler trying to kill entire races but just because his past was tragic that suddenly made Shulk forgive him and didn't kill him when he had the change after their first fight, which allowed him to get away and take control of the Mechonis and move the sword which probably killed thousands of Homs soldiers that were still in Sword Valley, and then destroys the city of Agniratha which result in Gadolt sacrificing himself to save everyone including Shulk.  So because of Shulks stupid bullshit, he's responsible for thousands of people dying right there including Gadolt.

I'm inclined to agree with most of this, unfortunately. Although I don't think the two stances are mutually exclusive: it's one thing to destroy mindless machines, especially to someone like Shulk who takes them apart and puts them together for a living. It's something else to, well, murder someone. I was...okay...with him taking that position. But it could have been executed much better.

I don't agree with the last paragraph though. Unless I'm completely mistaking my timeline, I don't think Shulk was in any position to stop Egil until after that final fight with him.

[Luigi Dude]

I'm inclined to agree with most of this, unfortunately. Although I don't think the two stances are mutually exclusive: it's one thing to destroy mindless machines, especially to someone like Shulk who takes them apart and puts them together for a living. It's something else to, well, murder someone. I was...okay...with him taking that position. But it could have been executed much better.

I don't agree with the last paragraph though. Unless I'm completely mistaking my timeline, I don't think Shulk was in any position to stop Egil until after that final fight with him.

But the thing is, Metal Face wasn't a mindless machine.  The second time Metal Face appears he actually talks to Shulk and even taunts him about how he liked killing Fiora.  This showed that Metal Face was an actual sentient being that new exactly what he was doing and enjoyed doing it.  And yet Shulk still had no problem wanting to kill him and almost did it at Prison Island if Fiora hadn't stopped him, which is when he suddenly see's the Face Mechon were all human controlled.

Now if had been revealed Mumkhar had no idea what he was doing like Fiora was, then Shulk's position would have been understandable.  But instead Mumkhar reveals he was fully aware of everything he was doing and loved doing it.  Which is why I have such a problem with Shulk's actions since when he thought a sentient machine was doing these things he had no problem wanting to kill him but as soon as it's revealed a sentient Hom's was doing it, he suddenly doesn't want to.  This moment basically made Shulk a racist as well since he was in favor of killing someone of an opposite race but not his own even if they both did the exact same crimes.

Oh and for the Egil event I'm refering to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYmlcJi5ZfE

I'm sorry but this cutscene just drove me crazy.  Shulk only stabs Egil in the shoulder because he didn't want to kill him, which to no surprise Egil is able to easily get away since he's very powerful and everyone knew it.  After everything Egil had done and what they knew he wanted to do, Shulk should have landed a fatal blow to Egil at this moment, not try to just injure him in a way he would easily escape from and end up killing thousands right after.

[noname2200]

I'm inclined to agree with most of this, unfortunately. Although I don't think the two stances are mutually exclusive: it's one thing to destroy mindless machines, especially to someone like Shulk who takes them apart and puts them together for a living. It's something else to, well, murder someone. I was...okay...with him taking that position. But it could have been executed much better.

I don't agree with the last paragraph though. Unless I'm completely mistaking my timeline, I don't think Shulk was in any position to stop Egil until after that final fight with him.

But the thing is, Metal Face wasn't a mindless machine.  The second time Metal Face appears he actually talks to Shulk and even taunts him about how he liked killing Fiora.  This showed that Metal Face was an actual sentient being that new exactly what he was doing and enjoyed doing it.  And yet Shulk still had no problem wanting to kill him and almost did it at Prison Island if Fiora hadn't stopped him, which is when he suddenly see's the Face Mechon were all human controlled.

Now if had been revealed Mumkhar had no idea what he was doing like Fiora was, then Shulk's position would have been understandable.  But instead Mumkhar reveals he was fully aware of everything he was doing and loved doing it.  Which is why I have such a problem with Shulk's actions since when he thought a sentient machine was doing these things he had no problem wanting to kill him but as soon as it's revealed a sentient Hom's was doing it, he suddenly doesn't want to.  This moment basically made Shulk a racist as well since he was in favor of killing someone of an opposite race but not his own even if they both did the exact same crimes.

Oh and for the Egil event I'm refering to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYmlcJi5ZfE

I'm sorry but this cutscene just drove me crazy.  Shulk only stabs Egil in the shoulder because he didn't want to kill him, which to no surprise Egil is able to easily get away since he's very powerful and everyone knew it.  After everything Egil had done and what they knew he wanted to do, Shulk should have landed a fatal blow to Egil at this moment, not try to just injure him in a way he would easily escape from and end up killing thousands right after.

"Mindless machine" might not have been the right word, but to Shulk Metal Face was still just a "machine." The guy works with such things for a living; its ability to talk and express emotions may have made it beyond any other tech he'd worked with so far, but it wouldn't give him any reason to see it as more than just a machine. Shoot, the mechon were clearly organized even before the Faces, so he had to know there was some calculations and communications going on within the mechon; he had no reason to go into awe over it. That a machine is deliberately cruel would just add fuel to his fire.

Personally, I'm fine with that distinction. It's why all those sci-fi novels that explore whether a robot can ever qualify as a person fall flat with me. If it's built and programmed, it's a machine. The fact that its tech is advanced enough to simulate humanity just makes it a better Tickle Me Elmo, in my mind. I think it's fine if Shulk subscribes to that theory as well. Of course, this means I look down on the Machina.

As for the scene you'd attached, I'd forgotten it, to be honest. In Shulk's defense though, having a sword plunge straight through a person's torso is usually a tad more effective at neutralizing the victim. I'd have been more than a little surprised myself. I wasn't when I actually saw the scene, because Anime Video Game Logic (TM), but...yeah.

[Luigi Dude]

Personally, I'm fine with that distinction. It's why all those sci-fi novels that explore whether a robot can ever qualify as a person fall flat with me. If it's built and programmed, it's a machine. The fact that its tech is advanced enough to simulate humanity just makes it a better Tickle Me Elmo, in my mind. I think it's fine if Shulk subscribes to that theory as well. Of course, this means I look down on the Machina. :

I guess that's were we disagree.  I'm always on the side of robots in sci-fi since if a machine is self aware and can actually think and show emotions, it's a living creature that's no different from the rest of us.  I guess when the machines eventually rise up and take over the world, I'll be allowed to live with them as a loyal servant above ground while you'll be sent to work in their mining camps below the surface.

[Enner]

I played with the English voice overs and the cast's thirst for vengeance comes across there as well. Perhaps I haven't played enough RPGs, but I was surprised how no-nonsense the characters of Xenoblade are when it comes to pursuing and killing their enemies. It is refreshing to see a Japanese narrative that doesn't have its characters hesitate or second guess at the most inopportune times.

I'm sorry but have you played the whole game?  This is one of the reasons why I feel the story line falls apart during the second half of the game.

Yes, I have. 200 hours in the game have clouded my recollection of the middle of the time I spent in the game. It doesn't help that I spent so much time with the end game content grinding monsters and completing side quests.

The plot points that you brought up do run counter to my statements. I wasn't bothered because I felt that the narrative shifted away from the vengeance motive of the first third/half of the game. Even with the shift, I recall the characters being focused on what they want to accomplish (which is how most video game characters are, to be honest).

Maybe it has been far too long since I've played those parts of the game and am blissfully ignoring the character moments where the party did annoyingly hesitate and second guess themselves.

[Luigi Dude]

Yeah it was a huge game, so it's understandable certain points people might not remember.  I remember these events because they bothered me more so they still stick out better in my mind, even though I spent over 130 hours playing the game.

The gameplay still trumps everything else and easily makes the game a 10/10 but the story in the second half was more of an annoyance to me because of what started happening compared to the first half were I was enjoying the story a lot more.

[EasyCure]

Xenoblade just arrived. I have Monday off so I can start playing this now and not sleep..only taking a break to go pick up my Wii U on Sunday. How far do you think I can get?

LOL

Plus it came with an art book.. I had no idea!

[Oblivion]

You got the art book? God dammit, I preordered mine from Gamestop and claimed they didn't have any.


Do...you...want the artbook?

[EasyCure]

You got the art book? God dammit, I preordered mine from Gamestop and claimed they didn't have any.


Do...you...want the artbook?

Damn I'm sorry dude, I literally ordered it off amazon a few days ago after reading through some of this thread. It was a complete impulse buy because I wasn't even sober when I did it lol.. I didn't read through anything, I just clicked order and here it is..

I haven't looked through it yet, let me get back to you about the offer

PS The last time I pre-ordered something from GS that came with a bonus like that, they gave me the same BS that they didn't have any more but really the employees were either:

A. Keeping them for themselves
B. Giving them to their friends
C. Selling them on-line

I'm a fucking adult and If I'm gonna put money down on something (an obscure title no less) because you offer me an incentive, I better get it. Don't try to BS me and tell me you ran out of FRAGILE DREAMS SOUNDTRACKS (seriously, I'm probably 1 of 5 people on this forum that own this if thats an indication of how obscure this game should be). Assholes.. I complained to GS Customer service and they were supposed to send me the OST but never did, I had to call back and complain about that and told them I was returning the game so as soon as I get to the store guess what they happen to have: the game's OST. No explanation how they magically received 1 a week or 2 later after claiming they were all given away to other people who pre-ordered the game (still think it's BS that THAT many people pre-ordered...) and tried to offer it to me as an incentive to not return the game...needless to say that was the last time I ever did business with them again because that was the last straw.

So yeah, I advise not to pre-order anything from them. If you want to trade-in/sell your games and do business with them that way, so be it - I'm not forcing anyone to join my boycott, but I'm telling you - DO NOT trust them with pre-orders.

Edit# 2 Haha just browsed through the artbook.. I wanna be a High Entia any reddit r/trees subscribers here will feel me

[Oblivion]

Oh god, you subscribe to r/trees... :


But yeah, I'm starting to notice that with Gamestop. This wasn't the first time it happened. Thanks for thinking about it.

[EasyCure]

I'd take back the 'thinking about it bit' for that remark, but I'm not that kinda person. it's the r/trees spirit

[EasyCure]

and so, my journey begins...

[Nintendad]

I think you are in for a treat. Earlier this year I spent 6 months playing through this (204 hours) and enjoyed every minute of it. I was doing every sidequest I came across so it shouldn't take quite that long to get through!


Easily my favorite game of 2012 and would definitely make my top 3 of all time.

[EasyCure]

You know a game is good when 2 hours feel like 20 minutes

[Stratos]

I need to get back into this. I don't have many moments these days to sit down for a long gaming session so it's gotten pushed to the back burner. I also picked up Last Story for cheap so I'm torn about which I should focus my efforts on.

 I only got about 2-3 hours in and didn't even get past the first major area. Each time I try to play more I still waste the game time exploring the initial areas. Almost more interested in beating some of the tougher monsters and fulfilling side-quests than playing the main story. It's nice to have something you can get that lost in that isn't one of those 'endless' games like Animal Crossing or an MMO.

[EasyCure]

I need to get back into this. I don't have many moments these days to sit down for a long gaming session so it's gotten pushed to the back burner. I also picked up Last Story for cheap so I'm torn about which I should focus my efforts on.

 I only got about 2-3 hours in and didn't even get past the first major area. Each time I try to play more I still waste the game time exploring the initial areas. Almost more interested in beating some of the tougher monsters and fulfilling side-quests than playing the main story. It's nice to have something you can get that lost in that isn't one of those 'endless' games like Animal Crossing or an MMO.

I could have a month off from work and social obligations and I still wouldn't scratch the surface of Xenoblade, at least thats the impression I'm getting from everything I've heard here and the tiny bit I experienced the other day. I still haven't fully completed Rune Factory Frontier either, and I bet if I had a month off just for that game I still wouldn't be near 100% completion..

Love games like this though<3

[Mannypon]

Sit back and enjoy, the game begs to be explored.  It got to a point though for me that I almost became an addict lol.  There were times when I really wanted to stop and push on with the story but I couldn't, for the life of me, stop myself from exploring every nook and cranny.  It'll touch on any ocd tendencies you may not even know you have lol.  Amazing game though, haven't been left that satisfied with a JRPG in such a long time.  Brings back memories of the "good old days".

[EasyCure]

I've honestly never played an RPG likes this before, they're usually not my type of game. In fact, I'll go as far as to say this is the first modern day RPG I've ever played, last RPG's I've played have been 2D..

Oh and 8hrs in, I love the game; the music, the environment, the gameplay. It's living up to everything you guys have said. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Retro Deckades]

Sit back and enjoy, the game begs to be explored.  It got to a point though for me that I almost became an addict lol.  There were times when I really wanted to stop and push on with the story but I couldn't, for the life of me, stop myself from exploring every nook and cranny.  It'll touch on any ocd tendencies you may not even know you have lol.  Amazing game though, haven't been left that satisfied with a JRPG in such a long time.  Brings back memories of the "good old days".

I was in the same boat as you, Mannypon. I logged about 150 hours over the summer, and even though I haven't played the game in months, I hope to return to it to finish up the affinity tree and take on the final two insanely overpowered beasts.


Even though I felt compelled to explore every little nook and cranny, the great thing about the game is that there is more often than not some sort of pay off for doing so, which made it really fun and not a chore.

[Mop it up]

I always came back to previous areas after leveling up so that it didn't take as long to explore.

[EasyCure]

I always came back to previous areas after leveling up so that it didn't take as long to explore.

but getting yourself into trouble is part of the fun of exploration! I thought at level 9 or 10 I'd be able to take down that giant evil rabbit thing near the top of Tephora hill, but boy did I get my ass handed to me.. and I enjoyed every second of it!

For any lurkers who are on the fence about this game: I was afraid the intricate battle system would impede my enjoyment because from everything I read, it just sounded so convoluted that I didn't think I'd ever get the hang of it (thus making the game unnecessarily tough and thus, not fun) BUT..

it's actually pretty simple. It builds up as the game progresses, and the first creatures you can battle are pretty simple wild monsters that are easy to find and don't really pose a threat as they don't attack you unless you attack them first. Basically, the game does a really good job of weening you in to the battle system, the tutorials are short but very well informed so even if something new is thrown at you in the middle of a battle, you'd have a good enough understanding of it it to proceed, and if not you can just go back and re-read the tutorial instead of it being lost forever.

Oh and if that isn't enough, I was under heavy influence both times I've played the game (fist time for 2 hours, second time for maybe 4 hours straight!?) and I still got the hang of the battle system, even after my party grew.

Really digging this game, and if I hadn't gotten home from work late, I'd be playing right now..

[leahsdad]

it's actually pretty simple. It builds up as the game progresses, and the first creatures you can battle are pretty simple wild monsters that are easy to find and don't really pose a threat as they don't attack you unless you attack them first. Basically, the game does a really good job of weening you in to the battle system, the tutorials are short but very well informed so even if something new is thrown at you in the middle of a battle, you'd have a good enough understanding of it it to proceed, and if not you can just go back and re-read the tutorial instead of it being lost forever.

Oh man.   Actually, the battle system is CRAZY complicated.   Really.   And while you're right about the weening part, I would say that if you don't fully understand all the intricacies of the battle system by about....oh, when you start fighting Level 70 bosses, then you will really struggle with the game.   I sure did.

But then again, by the time you get to that point of the game, you've played long enough to understand the basics of the battle system, so when you start reading some of the better FAQS out there (I highly recommend Zero Kid's excellent and SPOILER-free Arts Guide, it is essential reading)  you will have a much easier time understanding the terminology.   

Once again, don't let that scare you!   There were so many things that I didn't really understand by Level 70 (tension, what the color-coding on arts means, skill links, how to craft gems for higher ranks, etc.).   But once I got to a point in the game where I needed to know in order to progress, it was super easy to pick up.

[EasyCure]

I would never of expected for the game to keep showing me new things by that high a level, geeez! lol

[leahsdad]

Well, granted, these things are there from pretty much the beginning of the game.  You can do them, if you want.   It's just not worth your time to.    If you want, you can spend 2 or 3 hours crafting level 1 gem canisters into level 2 gems-- it's just kind of a waste of time to do so, when you'll start collecting level 2 gems just as random loot drops fairly early in the game.   You can probably chain like-colored arts to multiply chain damage (max 500%) as soon as you have Reyn and Sharla--it's just fairly unnecessary since Buster will cream a lot of those early Mechon.  And do you really need to know whose auras stack, and how many you can stack at one time?  Probably not.  But you can, especially after you get Melia and Dunban, who have the good auras.

[Shaymin]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but...
https://twitter.com/XSEEDGames/status/291377447507746816

It's either Ys Celceta or...