Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Quantum-Ant-Man-ia)

[Adrock]

I'm caught up. I liked She-Hulk: Attorney at Law. Spoiling a Daredevil in the final trailer was a colossally terrible move that Marvel keeps falling for. Even the tease at the end of Episode 5 lingered too long. Speaking of, I disagree with sentiments that Daredevil was too jokey. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law is a comedy. When Matt Murdock shows up, you play up that aspect since this isn't his show (similarly, the Harley Quinn show absolutely gets this right). He'll likely be more like Netflix Daredevil in Daredevil: Born Again.

Anyway, the first season of She-Hulk: Attorney at Law played out like a origin story so I expect subsequent seasons to ramp up quickly since they won't have to do the whole "I'm not a super hero" thing again. The cliff-hanger was great. The licensed music in the show is A+.

I'd have to rewatch Ms. Marvel to comment on it. I mostly liked it though I had some issues.

Thor: Love and Thunder was pretty good. I'd have to rewatch this as well though I remember thinking the third act, especially the ending was kind of rushed and Gorr had less than 10 minutes of screen time. I really want Marvel to leverage Disney+ more. Even a three-episode limited series of Gorr hunting gods would have been great here.

I'll always lament that Marvel didn't have an Eternals limited series as a lead up to the movie. They could have told some smaller, personal stories (notably light on CGI) to fill in exposition and develop these characters.

[Adrock]

Okay, for realsies caught up now. I thought last week was the finale which was an excellent cliffhanger, and I would have been perfectly fine if that was how the season ended.

Jessica Gao really leaned into the fourth wall break, and I was there for it. The entire K.E.V.I.N. scene was awesome. I particularly liked Jen dunking on various characters having daddy issues, the X-Men namedrop, and "See you on the big screen... No." It was all great though. I haven't read any reviews or comments about it. I expect the ending to be divisive especially with the way incels have been treating the show.

I got snookered by the fake big fight scene. I was like "What the hell is even going on with 19 characters showing up?" so I'm glad they swerved in such a big way. I'm less enthused about the Skaar reveal though I'm willing to keep an open mind. Emil going back to prison really annoyed me because again, Marvel has done such a bad job separating the heroes' actions with the villains'. Glad the mid-credits scene kind of walked it back.

Anyway, I forgot about Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. I mostly liked it. While the cameos were great, having the entire Illuminati job to Wanda was kind of silly. Apparently, John Krasinski isn't a lock to reprise the role in the Fantastic Four movie which I will thoroughly hate if true because I like consistent casting. Yeah, variants, I know. Just seems like such an unnecessary tease.

Otherwise, I don't see know how Wanda can come back from this movie except as a variant. It'd be a real shame if Scarlet Witch and Magneto don't meet in the MCU.

As a side note, when America and Doctor Strange end up in Earth-838, there's a bench with a hostile design bar in the middle. Nice to know that in alternate universes, everyone still hates the poor.

[ThePerm]

I really enjoyed the whole She-Hulk show. I loved the homage to the Bill Bixby show. I used to watch The Incredible Hulk on The Sci-Fi channel.

[nickmitch]

I finished She-Hulk today. I really liked the show overall. The ending was a bit of a miss for me. The massive fourth wall break felt anti-climatic. While I didn't need the big fight scene, when Jen comes back to reality, the whole issue is just solved. The police just showed up and arrested everybody. Also, they seemed to completely undo Emil's character development. Although, I guess they alluded to it with the electric fence/inhibitor scene.

The scene itself was cool for the reasons Adrock laid out. It just felt like the season avoided a climax. I did like that Jen handled it her own way, something more in line with her character and the rest of the show. It just didn't feel like she did anything other than stumble upon the villain and call the police.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Time for another title update!!


Black Panther was good. I was into it from start to finish. It was long, but honestly, it could've been a bit longer and I wouldn't have minded.
I thought they handled Boseman/T'Challa passing very well, reflecting the real life situation into the movie (suffering in silence and not telling anyone). The grief and mourning throughout the movie was handled with care. There was a lot of loss handled in this movie, just as the previous.
Although I was happy to see one of the losses make a cameo that made sense with the return of Killmonger (and a new hairstyle) as a representative of the Ancestral Plane for Shuri. Made perfect sense for her struggle in the movie at that point.

I was a little disappointed that Shuri didn't buck tradition and share the Heart Shaped Herb with more heads of state at the very least for the Wakandans, as that was what the "Atlanteans" had done and why their whole race was so powerful. But I guess part of the movie was about honoring the ancestors and traditions that came before you. But tell me M'Baku in full Beast Mode would've have been dope as ****, with his own Gorilla Suit even. could've been M'Baku vs Attuma, no holds barred, while Okoye instead goes after Namora (yes I know that invalidates her female strength as a woman warrior, but BM M'Baku vs Attuma could've been awesome)

Honestly, I really felt like the whole conflict between the Wet world and the Dry world could've been completely avoided (and I expect this to be on HISHE at some point) by Namora and crew not jumping Shuri, Okoye and Riri on the bridge. Letting them get her back to Wakanda, and then basically nurturing her there.
I understand that Namor doesn't know nor trust any of them further than he could throw one of their flying ships, but he didn't even give them a chance to fulfill the mission he set them on.

I also really can't wait to have New Rockstars shows me all the little easter eggs I missed, as I haven't read 75years worth of comics to catch everything.... like the Conch Shell given to Queen Ramonda.

I also would love to see a little battle with Thor vs Namor. I see Thor getting real irritated with Namor jumping through the air, being too fast and not standing still.

Speaking of which, I though Namor and his little winged feet were pretty awesome. The way he seemed to run and jump through the air was cool. Glad they just full embranced the character and his oddities.
Seeing Tolokan (aka Atlantis) and how he used Vibranium to give them a "Sun" in the ocean was pretty dope.
Also the Siren Squad that would lure the land dwellers to fall into a trance and throw themselves into the ocean to be dispersed without resistance was also really cool.

I really love how Marvel will use myth, legends, real locations, and actual historical events to shape the world they create to keep it as grounded and relatable as possible in their fantasy world.

Using the beliefs of the old Mayan(?) Civilization that was thought to have just disappeared, to be the ones to find the root and evolve to descend into the depths of the ocean and create an undiscovered underwater civilization (lost city of Atlantis) greater than most up on the surface, just being the latest example.

Overall, a really good movie.
p.s. There is only the mid-credit scene, there is no post credit scene.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Just got out of Ant-Man & the Wasp: Quantumania

First thought when watching this.... What if Marvel made a Star Wars movie, but in the Marvel Quantumverse....
and that thought stuck with me the entire movie.

Movie is entertaining for sure, but kinda suffers from the same thing every Ant-Man movie does... and that is just  something that keeps you from being all the way engrossed in it.
I don't really know how to describe it, but I feel like you know exactly what I'm talking about.

As for MODOK.... LOL
what can I say. You've seen the leaked photos. It's just as bad as you know it to be, but in live action.
It what happens when keep it True to the Comics kinda goes wrong.... in a "good" way I guess, because it was pretty funny, but so got damn silly. His assembly scene was hilarious, but the character in whole was just kinda fucking absurd comic relief. I can't believe he got as much screen time as he did looking like he did.
It kinda sucks to see him die, but I really can't imagine him moving into another movie series and the director being forced to use him, and not just walk off the fucking set throwing the clip board in the air

Kang was good. what their doing with Kang... well, that looks interesting.
Plays right into Loki season 1 ending.


Also there are 2 end scenes. so stick around after the black and white credits.

[Stratos]

I heard that this was originally supposed to close out Phase 4 and end on a cliffhanger with Scott and his daughter trapped, but after the schedule shuffle they made it the Phase 5 opener and it got a rewrite that hurt the film.

Feels like the ant-man films are in these weird spots in the phases that hinder them being their own quality things in some way.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Seeing the poor box office numbers, I can assume probably no one here other than me has gone to see The Marvels?

TBH, it was a fun film. Kamala was very enjoyable, but they spoiled most of her good moments in the trailers... but that was because they had no other way of marketing the film since the actor strike only ended a day or 2 before the movie came out.

this movie is better than the B.O. would suggest, but at the same time, I don't blame anyone for not rushing out to theater to see this (or most any other movie), knowing it will be on streaming for free in a few months.

The truth of the matter is that the MCU has lost it's hook, it's sense of 'must watch it now' before I am spoiled, because End Game was the perfect climax, and nothing since has felt all that connected or like a major event that needs to be experienced NOW.

having said all that..... go watch The Marvels
so I'm not alone in here. lol

[Khushrenada]

So, I went and saw The Marvels a couple days ago. Mainly out of respect for BnM as I was leaning towards not bothering until I saw his last post. He asked not to be alone so I answered the call.

It's been awhile since I'd seen a movie in 3D actually. I like 3D in space movies. Sometimes get that sensation of floating in space from it. It just seems to work better in that type of setting. I think I also like more the space part of the Marvel universe. The superpowers and superhero stuff can be a clash of fantasy and reality when set on Earth but by leaning into the fantasy stuff and just going wild with different alien species and worlds then it somehow becomes easier for the suspension of disbelief since it's all unreal.

Since Endgame came out, here's the quick list of Marvel movies that released after it and I've noted which ones I've seen as well:

Spider-Man: Far From Home - (Saw in the theatre)
Black Widow - (Watched from home last year)
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Eternals
Spider-Man: No Way Home (Watched from home last year)
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Thor: Love and Thunder
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (Saw in the theatre)
The Marvels (Saw in the theatre)

11 movies released and I've seen 5 of them. I also don't have a subscription to Disney+ so I have seen none of the TV shows that have been released from Wandavision on but then the only Marvel TV Show I've ever watched and seen all the way through was Agent Carter so that whole section has never meant much to me. And until Wandavision, the TV series really don't have much to do with what was going on in the movies anyways. The Marvels seems to represent a change in that as it was full of stuff I was peripherally aware of through pop culture and articles and comments on the Disney+ shows as they've aired but, again, haven't followed too closely. Of the 5 movies I've seen, Guardians of the Galaxy 3 would be my choice for best and liked the most. 

But let's talk The Marvels first. How would I describe it? I suppose the best way would be using comic books themselves as an example. Perhaps when one was a kid (although it could be any age), you saw something like Batman: The Animated Series or Spider-Man: The Animated Series and you enjoyed those tales but wanted more after they were over. You go to a comic book shop in the hopes of finding new adventures. Yet, you're not really sure where to start. Perhaps you just pick an issue or two of some series because the cover grabs you or you'd heard that a current story arc is really good. Diving into it can be a bit disorienting since there's new characters and styles compared to the animated series you watched. Depending on what the issue is maybe you are in the middle of a current story and are now trying to catch up to the events unfolding in the issue. Characters that were in the series seem to behave differently in the issue. That kind of thing can make it tough for comic books to hook in new readers who may have had their curiosity increased because of some other media. Perhaps it could also be like deciding to check out a long running TV series you'd heard about from others. Like if someone decided to watch an episode of Game of Thrones in its 6th season to see what it was like. Not everyone will always go to the start to check something out especially if it seems like doing so could be daunting. And how do you go to the start in comic books? There might be some good jumping in points but those could still require a lot of issues to get caught up.

That's what The Marvels felt like to me; Picking a comic book issue off the shelf and finding a story already in progress. Nick Fury's in a space station. When was there a space station built? Who is this Monica Rambeau? It also felt like it was just moving threads along for other stories resulting in a lackluster "main" story. On my way home after watching it, part of me was wondering just what was the point of this movie? What was the main conflict? It was trying to juggle different conflicts for different characters and nothing was really well done in the end because of it. Somehow, the three main characters have their powers get connected through Trek-babble and then somehow that just stops during the final fight and I can't recall any great explanation for why. That particular conflict just resolves it self somehow. Ostensibly, the main conflict would seem to be about the jump points and fixing them but maybe it was the stuff to do with Hala and the Ronan The Accuser pretender. It's just all so meh. There were a couple times in which the movie was able to rise above that such as going to Aladna and learning about its princess as well as the cats. Should be all I have to say about the latter. The problem with those moments is that they were rather brief and it felt like there could have been more to be done there particularly with Aladna and it then just further makes the rest of the movie seem dull in comparison to them which further makes the "main villain" worse for being boring compared to them.

By the end of the movie, I had a bunch of questions because, once more, things just seemed to be underwritten and it became a lot of "stuff just happens" without much reason why. It also gave me the impression that the movies may have now inherited a problem that comic book series face of having no real ending. Like a soap opera that goes on for decades trying to find new ways to come up with new stories and conflicts for the characters with the main reason being for the creators to keep getting paid for doing so. The result right now just feels like trying to just check off plot points that need to happen for characters to move them on to the next point they'll be featured in but try and cover that turning of cogs with some sort of story in an attempt to hide that behind the scenes machinery. I get why it has a 61% with critics on Rotten Tomatoes while it has an 83% with fans. For people like BnM who have stayed in the Marvel ecosystem, there's probably more that they can enjoy from this movie compared to someone like me who's seen way less of the Marvel output at this point and felt like the movie was struggling to justify its existence.

[Khushrenada]

Also, has Marvel stopped doing clips at the end of the credits? I'm trying to remember if there was something once Guardians of the Galaxy 3 wrapped up. I thought there was but maybe I've misremembered that already. Stayed until the credits wrapped up for The Marvels only to have a blank silent screen as my reward.

And one final comment about the movie, when I watched it late Tuesday night, it was just myself and one other person in the theatre to see it. For a moment, I thought this might make the 4th time I've gone to a movie and been the only one in there for the showing but then one other person showed up. I kinda wish that guy had not come. I've been in a couple showings with low numbers like 9 or 8 people including myself which is fine since we were all scattered about but you still had a weird sense of community as you heard others laughing or reacting to what was happening on the screen. It's not like myself and this other person were seated close. There were plenty of rows between us. But it just feels weird to have this one other stranger somewhere in the room with you. I'd have much rather had the whole room to myself and not wonder if maybe I laughed too loud or something. I'd say 2 - 5 (including one self in that count) is a bad number for movie viewing. 6 and on will probably be okay and maybe add a bit more to the experience because it will feel like you're part of a special intimate crowd.

[Stratos]

I saw an interesting video detailing how Disney+ is killing Disney. And they point out how their bread-and-butter was box office sales. Now there is no incentive to go. I might have gone to see a few of them but with them on D+ in like 3 months, and the loss of luster to MCU films, why bother? Only ones we went to see were Spider-Man and BP2. Spidey because it was clearly the best of the bunch, and the leaks all indicated it was going to be a blast and not worth missing, not to mention with Sony having a hand it would NOT be appearing on D+ anytime soon so wanted to get in while we had the chance. BP2 I really wasn't as keen to see in theaters because I just wasn't motivated without Boseman, but my wife really wanted to go so I went with her.

I can't even be arsed to watch half of the MCU films on D+. I watched every show up to She-Hulk and that was the point my wife called it quits. I never bothered to return on my own. We did watch GotG3, and the intro the Thor 4 just before that for the story, but I just can't be bothered to watch them. We tried to watch Secret Invasion, but like 1.5 episodes in and we just weren't feeling it.

We decided to watch Loki S2 but wife bailed near the end and decided shes done. I finished it and, well, it was okay. But I still felt a bit like something was off. Like they changed it specifically because of the stuff with Jonathan Majors and his criminal cases (he's officially out of the MCU now too so whether intended or not, convenient to cut it off in Loki). It also failed to give us the closure that was deserved for Loki with Thor. I was a die-hard #LokiLives believer, and I think that should have come into play somehow.

Personal highlights post-End Game for me were Spider-Man and Moon Knight. I'm a sucker for Moon Knight, and while the show wasn't AMAZING, it was still enjoyable as someone not well versed in the comics and such. It did feel a bit weighted in the end with the climax, but still something I'm happy I watched once.

Truthfully I'm struggling to remember much of the rest for noteworthy parts I really enjoyed. I remember the excitement for WandaVision, and the bad taste in my mouth from it in the end thanks to the showrunners and plot basically trolling fans.

Interestingly the same is happening with Star Wars for us. Wife really hated the end of Mando S3, and after Boba Fett being such a poor showing for her she's done. She was willing to watch Ahsoka and Andor, but now only wants to watch Andor S2. She just doesn't feel motivated to watch Ahsoka anymore since it is technically set around/in the Mandoverse. Andor is solely because she like Diego de Luna, and she did enjoy that series so far.

Disney as a whole is in a slump. I'm kind of surprised at how much of a slump it is. Typically large companies have a bad area and it balances out in another being good. Yet miraculously everything seems to be going wrong for Disney. MCU: struggling. LucasFilm: Dumpster Fire. Animation: meh. Pixar: Lost their mojo. Parks: shut down brand new attractions. Box office: worst in a long time. D+: losing subscribers (or losing the key growth).

I'm expecting leadership in a lot of Disney to be changing up here real soon because they can't keep going at this rate if they want to be relevant in the next 20 years.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Echo (latest MCU drop)

I just finished this 5 episode run, and while it's nice of Marvel to have it's "Spotlight" brand, and to push inclusion by having a show for the Indigenous, I just really don't see the point of this one, other than to say they were inclusive, and to position Kingpin on the board for Daredevil.

You could skip this in it's entirety, and likely have not missed anything other than "what happened to Kingpins eye!?"

After 5 episodes and several fight scenes, I was still trying to pinpoint what Echo's apparent powers are..... her hands glowed and allowed her to free her fake leg from a moving trains train car hitch.... so I assumed she had super strength or something. Still not sure that's the case, as I looked it up, and her comic version could just mimic whatever she saw..... like Task Master, but also with the ability to also copy music, and not just fighting style. Which I know sure how that would work since Echo cannot hear...
Also, the majority of the fights were unconvincing, and full of too many quick cuts. Not sure it was a choreography thing, a physical ability thing, or an editing thing, but as Marvels Studio's first Mature rated content, it's not really living up to the hype.

Even Kingpin wasn't shown to be the "Force of Strength" I imagined he would be when properly buffed to deal with MCU characters. But I guess we know where he'll be for Daredevil tho. As Mayor of NYC.

[UncleBob]

Okay, so I finally watched The Marvels.  For reference, I've seen everything aside from Echo.

I enjoyed it.  It was a complete and total mess when it came to pacing and plot progression, and the entire Monica/Carol conflict was pointless (Monica being upset with Carol wasn't well explored and seemed kinda out of left field - but if they wanted to really amp it up, having Monica's disappointment with Carol lead to het puling Kamala aside and warning her about putting too much faith in her could have been a nice touch that lead somewhere.) - but the movie was fun.  Even having followed everything, I agree that it seemed like jumping into the middle of a comic book story line.  As much as I loved Kamala's family - they should have been cut, drastically*, and the main storyline should have been given more focus.  The entire 'evacuate the station' plot should have been cut.  And that song and dance number (if you haven't seen the movie yet, I'm not kidding)... yeesh.

All my complaints aside, it was still a fun movie - but yes, Marvel has completely lost focus at this point.

*Re: the fam - cut about 90% of that stuff out, enough to know they're involved, but enough to give significant time back to the movie.  Then, take all their misadventures in space and cut it to a Disney+ special.  Not something casual viewers *have* to watch, but they'd be far more inclined to enjoy.   Pitch Meeting said it best (paraphrasing)

"And Kamala's family is there."

"Why are they there?"

"Because I like them.  They're funny."

[BlackNMild2k1]

Apparently don't listen to me..... I guess Echo resonated better with a wider audience beyond me

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-born-again-resumes-filming-echo-1235793539/

The show also had a halo effect for Marvel: Daredevil seasons one and two, Hawkeye, and Punisher season one received major audience bumps, according to insiders.

Marvel is interested in doing more with the character and is already developing new ideas as it seeks to build out its street-level heroes.

I didn't hate it, I just felt it didn't do much to invigorate a stagnant MCU TV.
Her fight scene with DD was probably the best fight, and maybe her spreading in other stuff will expand her appeal. For now I'm still not really seeing it.

[Adrock]

Secret Invasion

The less said about this trash, the better. Fridging Maria Hill was straight poo poo. Marvel should have known better. They spent so much time introducing 37 characters to give Nick Fury a backstory while Maria Hill was like RIGHT THERE. Fury didn't need a Skrull love interest. It wasn't even handled well, and Varra didn't even show up in The Marvels. What was the point of that? Marvel had a father/daughter, mentor/protégé relationship there on a platter with Hill in the MCU for 11 years. Explore that. There were any number of ways to give texture to Fury's character.

And if Marvel was really intent on killing off a character that has been in the MCU since 2012, let her go out in a blaze of glory. Hill could have died saving Fury (though I still would have preferred she not). Then, while Fury was grappling with that loss, we could have had a cool Coulson cameo.

Then, Marvel just kills off Talos for reasons.

THEN, Fury isn't even part of the climactic fight scene. Rhodey has been a Skrull since Civil War and it didn't matter.

I didn't mind G'iah, but there needed to be more episodes to build these relationships. That's the point of having a show yet Marvel simply hasn't taken advantage of it.

Secret Invasion felt intentionally and actively hostile to viewers. **** this show. Make it non-canon so we can have Maria Hill and Talos back.

The Marvels

It was okay. Iman Vellani's back must be sore from carrying that entire movie.

Monica's conflict with Carol felt unearned and contrived. Like dude, you blipped out of existence for five years, and the only reason you're back is because Carol took a Power Stone Falcon Punch to the grill. Show some respect. The universe is bigger than you.

My biggest criticism is that Captain Marvel really needed a solo sequel before a team up. Also, this is the second movie where Marvel handicapped her so she wouldn't immediately obliterate the villain.

Speaking of, Dar-Benn was simply not an effective villain (and weirdly, reminded me of Rita Repulsa at times). If Marvel really wanted to make Dar-Benn work, the entire flashback of Carol fucking up Hala should have been expanded as the climax of a direct Captain Marvel sequel (with The Marvels being the third movie). As is, Dar-benn jobbed to Carol in a like 15 second flashback yet we're supposed to think she stands a chance against an Infinity Stone powered super-being because she has that Quantum Band. And Dar-Benn only had one. She also got thrown around a lot. Ehh...

The quantum entanglement that caused The Marvels to switch places seemed poorly explained. They can still use some of their powers at the same time without switching.

Echo

It was... fine. My main criticism was it too short and the ending felt rushed. Needed a ton more character work. Maya was an antagonist for most of Hawkeye, and this show didn't do enough to humanize her.

Kingpin was coolio though.

[Stratos]

I think Marvels was a reaction to some of the drama swirling around the actress and fan sentiment about her. Which is odd because Disney is typically a bit stronger about caving to whining fans like that, unless it was really showing in some of their metrics somehow.

It does feel like it needed a second solo film before the ensemble team up. Or, you know, they could have explored the necessary backstory in one of their TV projects instead of the dreck we got, especially with the later shows.

[BlackNMild2k1]

This movie was DOPE.

So many references in MCU, out MCU, BTS, and real life ****.
It was great.

Shots taken at pretty much everything, and the movie was so enjoyable. Cameos galore.

I went in blind, and came out more than satisfied.
Even got a Wolvie popcorn bucket.

My opinion is that the MCU might be back
Get hyped, go watch this movie if you're a fan.

[UncleBob]

There was one "cameo" that seriously shocked me to the point I looked at my friend and said "is that really...?", thinking they had got a look alike or AI or something.

[Stratos]

Which was it? This is the spoiler thread so its all fair game.

Finally got around to watching Deadpool 2 and knowing how 3 starts it kind of took the wind out of a lot of it. Was still neat but just rings a bit different when taken with 3.

[UncleBob]

Which was it? This is the spoiler thread so its all fair game.

Wesley Snipes.  With all the rumors of drama behind Blade 3, I figured there was no way in hell he'd play Blade again.  Or work with Ryan Reynolds again.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But Marvel, specifically MCU, means MONEY.
and Snipes happens to like and need money.

Snipes is also waaaay off his High Horse at this point, and would be blessed to dress the role of Blade one more time, even as another cameo/send off in the new Blade movie, which might be possible thanks to DP & Wolvie. And with all the trouble they've been having scripting the new Blade, working Snipes into the movie might give them some creative motivation, and audiences a reason to be hyped to see it at this point.