Topic: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker

[oohhboy]

The only way a movie could be bad in the way oohhboy is describing is if the film were exposed, the vocals and the visuals were out of sync, and most of the movie was slightly out of frame. Or maybe even each scene is one take and then the next scene is filmed right after with no editing.

Nitpicking the details of the film might make it a bad story, but that's only one part of the movie.

It is an intentional exaggeration. I used it to unambiguously get cross the idea given I was insulted because they misunderstood intentionally or otherwise.

Yeah, frames are in-sync with audio. There is a picture when they don't go hardcore with the dark theme or shake the camera to hide issues or is a poorly lit as Solo. it physically gets from beginning to end. The script which is the equivalent to gameplay, level design and physics is a mess which for a movie leads to the game equivalent issues.

The actors can't be convincing, dialogue is bad, characters are falling out of the story. You have scenes and sequences, entire chunk of it that is something else entirely or disconnected internally, inconsistent or missing. Interactions don't make sense. People are teleporting.

A Mario game isn't a Mario game because it has Mario. It's the physics and level design, the camera moment, how tight and well thought out it is. If that quality, the essence isn't there it's not a Mario game no matter how you dress it up or rendering technology involved.

Its such a train wreak I can't look away, the BS surrounding it is too entertaining. Ripping on it is too much fun.

You need a new hobby man.  Maybe if you surrounded yourself with things you enjoy rather than things you hate, you'd be less bitter and more happy?

Check out Dr Phil here.

[NWR_insanolord]

But whether something captures the essence of a franchise is definitely subjective, it's not anywhere near as black and white as you're claiming. That means different things to different people.

[broodwars]

I've said my piece about Disney's poor handling of their acquired properties sufficiently elsewhere. I didn't like Force Awakens, so I haven't even bothered with the other Disney Star Wars movie stuff. Yeah, I like Rebels, but that show has a ton of problems and it never did figure out what it wanted to be, so it just endlessly circled around the same 3 storylines. I still haven't bothered finishing the show's final season because it all got so tedious.

That reminds me: I really need to break out my Clone Wars BluRays again some time and try to get past that godawful, convoluted 3rd season in actipation of the new Season 7.

What I do find funny about the marketing of Rise of Skywalker is Disney now claiming that all this nonsense was actually planned after Rian Johnson openly stated that he pretty much threw out everything Abrams had started. Yeah, there are people that actually like Disney Star Wars, and whatever I think of them I think it's rather brazen of Disney to treat THEM like idiots.

I feel like that's one thing that fans of both old Lucas Star Wars and new Disney Star Wars should be able to agree on: the planning and execution of these new movies has been somewhat less than desirable. That they've been successful anyway speaks to a number of things, but I don't think "consistency" can be called one of them.

Meanwhile, the Star Wars toy sales are apparently in the gutter, Galaxy's Edge is pretty much a confirmed flop, and Disney still won't hand the video game license to a company that actually knows what it's doing. Whatever the quality of Rise of Skywalker ends up being, I'm not sure the brand can still be considered "healthy".

[UncleBob]

Its such a train wreak I can't look away, the BS surrounding it is too entertaining. Ripping on it is too much fun.

You need a new hobby man.  Maybe if you surrounded yourself with things you enjoy rather than things you hate, you'd be less bitter and more happy?

Check out Dr Phil here.

I assume you mean this as a complement, because I canxt imagine you'd ever openly insult somone on the forums.

[oohhboy]

But whether something captures the essence of a franchise is definitely subjective, it's not anywhere near as black and white as you're claiming. That means different things to different people.

If it was really that subjective you couldn't have spiritual successors, remakes, translations, mash ups, satire, adaptations and reboots that replicate that essence and even improve on it (Orville). Even sequels have to follow what came before, you can't just make whatever and call it a sequel(TLJ). You have understand intimately the core and make it fresh (John Wick).

When it fails you get "This is XYZ in name only", "WTF is this?". It doesn't have legitimacy from the audience. You can call it XYZ all you want, claim the legal rights to the IP, but it doesn't matter if no one watches, are busy mocking you or don't believe in what you are saying.

Its such a train wreak I can't look away, the BS surrounding it is too entertaining. Ripping on it is too much fun.

You need a new hobby man.  Maybe if you surrounded yourself with things you enjoy rather than things you hate, you'd be less bitter and more happy?

Check out Dr Phil here.

I assume you mean this as a complement, because I canxt imagine you'd ever openly insult somone on the forums.

No, not a complement at all, depending on context/reading an insult. Mostly an observation, an amusing dismissive disposable quip.

[pokepal148]

To be clear the way Disney has handled the sequel trilogy has made Nintendo's online strategy seem coherent and well thought out. But that doesn't mean that the movies contained within can't be good.

Also I deeply disagree with any assertion that TLJ was made without any regard for what came before it.

[oohhboy]

I think everyone can agree there has been 1/3 of a good movie so far.

I can agree with the second statement because it objects to an absolute impossible statement. TFA and TLJ has Luuuuke in hobo robes so that carried over.

[oohhboy]

Double post

[NWR_insanolord]

But whether something captures the essence of a franchise is definitely subjective, it's not anywhere near as black and white as you're claiming. That means different things to different people.

If it was really that subjective you couldn't have spiritual successors, remakes, translations, mash ups, satire, adaptations and reboots that replicate that essence and even improve on it (Orville).

There's usually a lot of overlap between people's perceptions, which allows for things like that, but not everyone appreciates those works that are derived from the original because of the differences in how they perceived it. You've made it clear that you think The Orville captures the essence of Star Trek and even improves upon it, but that is far from a universal sentiment, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[broodwars]

But whether something captures the essence of a franchise is definitely subjective, it's not anywhere near as black and white as you're claiming. That means different things to different people.

If it was really that subjective you couldn't have spiritual successors, remakes, translations, mash ups, satire, adaptations and reboots that replicate that essence and even improve on it (Orville).

There's usually a lot of overlap between people's perceptions, which allows for things like that, but not everyone appreciates those works that are derived from the original because of the differences in how they perceived it. You've made it clear that you think The Orville captures the essence of Star Trek and even improves upon it, but that is far from a universal sentiment, and there's nothing wrong with that.

For instance, I find The Orville to be so sophomoric that its stupidity outweighs every good piece of science fiction storytelling it does. The whole show's a tonal whiplash that never coalesces into a coherent, thoughtful whole worthy of being a Star Trek spiritual successor. 

It also looks like it was entirely shot in the world's most sterile and boring Ikea Warehouse.

[pokepal148]

What I do find funny about the marketing of Rise of Skywalker is Disney now claiming that all this nonsense was actually planned after Rian Johnson openly stated that he pretty much threw out everything Abrams had started.

Actually Daisy Ridley was the one who made that claim. Still the whole relay race trilogy planning thing we've seen described in interviews and the like sounds like an absolute trainwreck.

[ThePerm]

Los Dos

[oohhboy]

There's usually a lot of overlap between people's perceptions, which allows for things like that, but not everyone appreciates those works that are derived from the original because of the differences in how they perceived it. You've made it clear that you think The Orville captures the essence of Star Trek and even improves upon it, but that is far from a universal sentiment, and there's nothing wrong with that.

For instance, I find The Orville to be so sophomoric that its stupidity outweighs every good piece of science fiction storytelling it does. The whole show's a tonal whiplash that never coalesces into a coherent, thoughtful whole worthy of being a Star Trek spiritual successor. 

It also looks like it was entirely shot in the world's most sterile and boring Ikea Warehouse.

The thing about the Orville is that it doesn't want to replicate TNG with a new paint job which is something I don't think anybody really wants. Enterprise is the example of how dry that well is. I am 100% that Seth could have made straight up TNG and he has the crew to do it and did talk to CBS. To freshen it up, to set it apart, give it the heart that TNG didn't have due to the stiffness of the characters was to make them more real, have them make jokes, flaws, aspirations, regret, grow as people from the get go. It deals with complex social issues in a mature manner without blasting your face and isn't afraid to say "I don't know". TNG never in a 1000 years would have aliens instantly get addicted to cigarettes to show addiction(Disc in funnels anyone?). Seth wrote a love letter to Trek.

As I said before part of it isn't just capping that essence, but making it fresh too. When you are making a direct sequel you can't go off the reservation, "Jump the shark" like NuSW. With Marvel, each movie has very different heroes, directors, actors but they all have the some core. Each can be different within certain limits, some technical, some more ethereal. Some of them were bad, but people forgave them partly because it was still Iron man not Tin man.

Every John Wick is different enough so not to rehash the last, be new and stay true. Good parodies have that same core. Galaxy Quest is 'Trek', but a comedy, a translation. If it was just a comedy on a space ship it wouldn't be a parody. Spaceballs lovingly mocks SW beyond just having an oversize Vadar helmet. Same with Doc Vadar. The core is that important.

Given the choice between sets well lit enough to see it's Ikea and a slum lord apartment that hasn't paid the power bill to hide the roaches as atmospheric as that maybe, it I am going to take Ikea every time. Hollywood has serious lighting problems like they are rationing photons in the last stage of heat death. If the Orville was real no way in hell it would be lit like a cave as Discovery is. Hell, I would take ST 2009's lens flares over STD.

****, the new leaks are too damn funny. Looks like JJ finally said something that was true and finish what he started when he said "**** it".

[broodwars]

The thing about the Orville is that it doesn't want to replicate TNG with a new paint job which is something I don't think anybody really wants. Enterprise is the example of how dry that well is. I am 100% that Seth could have made straight up TNG and he has the crew to do it and did talk to CBS. To freshen it up, to set it apart, give it the heart that TNG didn't have due to the stiffness of the characters was to make them more real, have them make jokes, flaws, aspirations, regret, grow as people from the get go. It deals with complex social issues in a mature manner without blasting your face and isn't afraid to say "I don't know". TNG never in a 1000 years would have aliens instantly get addicted to cigarettes to show addiction(Disc in funnels anyone?). Seth wrote a love letter to Trek.
...

Every John Wick is different enough so not to rehash the last, be new and stay true. Good parodies have that same core. Galaxy Quest is 'Trek', but a comedy, a translation. If it was just a comedy on a space ship it wouldn't be a parody. Spaceballs lovingly mocks SW beyond just having an oversize Vadar helmet. Same with Doc Vadar. The core is that important.

I don't want to derail this thread any further with Orville talk, but it's funny that you decided to bring up Galaxy Quest & Spaceballs. You know what those shows have that The Orville doesn't? Clever writing, satire, and consistency. They are what they are, and they embrace it.

Mel Brooks said on the commentary track for Spaceballs that the key to a good satire is that the story itself has to be good first before you lay on the parody. Spaceballs is a comedy from beginning to end, and for its day quite a clever one (along with some crass humor). It just tells a fun adventure story from beginning to end, skewering silly things about Star Wars, science fiction, and marketing along the way. There's a consistent tone throughout.  Galaxy Quest, likewise, has a strong adventure foundation. It starts as a loving parody of how silly the original Star Trek is, and then slowly shifts into a celebration of what that show was before ending on a celebration of the Star Trek fan culture that kept that show alive.

The Orville, on the other hand, doesn't know what it wants to be. 1/2 to 3/4 of the show is comedy so bad that I can't bring myself to care about the characters. Then every once in a while it tries to be serious, but because I was already turned off by the dick jokes, etc. they did with those characters earlier, I don't CARE when the actual pathos happens. It comes off as the writer both being stoned and having ADHD:

"Dicks, though, am I right, brah! But what if...what if that one race we know nothing about...started a war, man! That would be bad, brah! But Dick jokes, right?!"

The Orville is so busy jumping between things that worked for other shows that, IMO, it never establishes a desirable identity of its own. And I know a lighter-style sci-fi show with serious drama CAN work because Farscape and the StarGate franchise pulled it off. They just had better writers. The Orville wants to do smart science fiction without actually being smart. It wants deep pathos without actually earning it.

[UncleBob]

>You know what those shows have that The Orville doesn't?

A two-hour run time to fill, instead of multiple hours of episodes?

[oohhboy]

I don't want to derail this thread any further with Orville talk, but it's funny that you decided to bring up Galaxy Quest & Spaceballs. You know what those shows have that The Orville doesn't? Clever writing, satire, and consistency. They are what they are, and they embrace it.

Mel Brooks said on the commentary track for Spaceballs that the key to a good satire is that the story itself has to be good first before you lay on the parody. Spaceballs is a comedy from beginning to end, and for its day quite a clever one (along with some crass humor). It just tells a fun adventure story from beginning to end, skewering silly things about Star Wars, science fiction, and marketing along the way. There's a consistent tone throughout.  Galaxy Quest, likewise, has a strong adventure foundation. It starts as a loving parody of how silly the original Star Trek is, and then slowly shifts into a celebration of what that show was before ending on a celebration of the Star Trek fan culture that kept that show alive.

The Orville, on the other hand, doesn't know what it wants to be. 1/2 to 3/4 of the show is comedy so bad that I can't bring myself to care about the characters. Then every once in a while it tries to be serious, but because I was already turned off by the dick jokes, etc. they did with those characters earlier, I don't CARE when the actual pathos happens. It comes off as the writer both being stoned and having ADHD:

"Dicks, though, am I right, brah! But what if...what if that one race we know nothing about...started a war, man! That would be bad, brah! But Dick jokes, right?!"

The Orville is so busy jumping between things that worked for other shows that, IMO, it never establishes a desirable identity of its own. And I know a lighter-style sci-fi show with serious drama CAN work because Farscape and the StarGate franchise pulled it off. They just had better writers. The Orville wants to do smart science fiction without actually being smart. It wants deep pathos without actually earning it.

You can jote down methods of delivery, pick the right one, but comedy has a heavy element on where a personal draws the line and what context the audience wants to use regardless of what you provide. It rides a fine line between insulting someone, eh? and being funny. I enjoy every little joke or skit including the groaners as they humanised the crew more and more. If you don't like Seth style comedy there isn't much anyone can do. The comedy has been a double edge sword but is fundamental to Orville. If the Soul is Trek, the heart is of comedy which it wears on it's sleeve.

Its nowhere near the frat meat head level as you have described, but whatever.

As for the Sci-Fi element they have managed to write new stories not seen in Trek or take old ones and gave it a clever Seth spin on it. You can see where it came from but he doesn't rip it off. They had a proper formal first contact episode never seen in Trek. When they got excited, I got excited when Gordon said "This is what we are here for". Damn straight we are seeking new life.

Seth has picked a much more difficult path than GQ or SB which are straight comedies that can do whatever with few limits. He can't just whip out a giant vacuum cleaner or a death trap engine room to make a joke. Stargate isn't what I call lighter style sci-fi, it's fundamentally very serious with RDA being /s af and finding meme like "Indeed" and Daniel dying for the nth time. It's more a core value of the characters than one of the show. Farscape is a proto Orville that leans quite serious while having flaming explosive piss, bromance, underage sex and cutting off another character's arm to sell. It you are going to claim tonal whiplash Farscape is ultra guilty.

[BlackNMild2k1]

New Poster for the Trilogy: including some characters you may not have seen yet.

[ThePerm]

you know I saw the first trailer again in theaters, and something popped into my mind I hadn't thought about before.

The way the camera pans, it pans down to Rey's the uterine area. It could be possible Rey is pregnant.

[Shorty McNostril]

Final Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qn_spdM5Zg

I'm in.

[BeautifulShy]

Final Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qn_spdM5Zg

I'm in.

OMG this trailer gave me all the feels and I am so into this conclusion to the whole series.

[nickmitch]

Looks fantastic. I am ready.

Did anyone else get tickets today?

[Shorty McNostril]

I love that different rendition to the Star Wars theme. Adds some real gravitas to it.

[BeautifulShy]

Looks fantastic. I am ready.

Did anyone else get tickets today?

I haven't but December 20th can't come soon enough. I may go out and see it with some friends opening weekend.

[oohhboy]

LOL. How embarrassing.

https://twitter.com/reylology/status/1186498171024871424

[Shorty McNostril]

I'm sure someone here already posted that video of that same phenomenon in the prequel trilogy.