Author Topic: ARMS  (Read 24632 times)

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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2017, 01:42:24 AM »
It's so scrubs like you can't rely on non-motion controls to try to win tournaments.
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Offline Soren

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2017, 09:13:20 AM »
If you need to handicap conventional controls to make your motion controls look good, then your motion controls are ****.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2017, 01:18:54 PM »
Every input is mapped on the traditional controls. You just can't curve punches as reliably because you aren't using motion. I don't see the problem there. It's a fighting game that becomes more technical with motion controls. That means traditional controls are worse, which is funny because "purists" are going to find any reason they can to complain about it.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2017, 02:10:52 PM »
I don't like that A and B are the main punch buttons either.  The shoulders would make more sense.  B and Y would also be more comfortable.

Also, "every input is mapped" is a weak reply to "these inputs are mapped poorly" (paraphrased, obvs).
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2017, 04:14:03 PM »
When it comes to controls, Nintendo have always had an "Our way or the highway" attitude, so consider it lucky that the game even has any options at all. I don't think I'd want to switch from the motion controls though, so it probably won't bother me.



Offline Phil

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2017, 04:25:32 PM »
The music is so awesome! Not surprising since it's the Mario Kart team!

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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2017, 05:37:21 PM »
I don't like that A and B are the main punch buttons either.  The shoulders would make more sense.  B and Y would also be more comfortable.

Also, "every input is mapped" is a weak reply to "these inputs are mapped poorly" (paraphrased, obvs).
Then my much more eloquent and rational response would be, "traditional inputs are dumb anyway. Embrace motion controls."
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2017, 08:54:52 PM »
I'm down for the motion controls.  Who said I wasn't??  I'll fight them!
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2017, 09:35:56 PM »
So will I!*






*On Final Destination, no items, stock battle, Fox Only with Gamecube Controllers which is the only true way to fight someone.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2017, 09:47:41 PM »
I've got nothing against the motion controls, but I mostly play my Switch in the handheld configuration where the traditional controls will be my only option. I don't want to criticize the layout until I've gotten my hands on it, though.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2017, 10:02:04 PM »
*On Final Destination, no items, stock battle, Fox Only with Gamecube Controllers which is the only true way to fight someone.

Obvi.

I've got nothing against the motion controls, but I mostly play my Switch in the handheld configuration where the traditional controls will be my only option. I don't want to criticize the layout until I've gotten my hands on it, though.

That's just lazy.
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Offline Soren

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2017, 10:28:24 PM »
You know a great way to curve punches with the Pro Controller? Using the right stick, which currently looks to be assigned to...what exactly? But instead of leaving my right thumb open to use the right stick I now have to use it to punch when my index fingers could do that with the shoulders buttons just fine.


IF ARMS ever gets a competitive scene going expect conventional controls to dominate, as they do in every other competitive esports scene. I'm not having this argument just to be a contrarian. I don't understand this "full motion controls or bust" attitude when Splatoon showed very well you could marry the two concepts and have a perfectly harmonious relationship.


Also, the Pro Controller has gyro. If you're going to tank the game for motion controls you picked a bad console to do it on.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2017, 11:58:38 PM »
The point of ARMS is that, with the ideal control style, you are able to stagger punches and control their movement at the same time. While you might argue that you should be able to control the directions of both punches with both analog sticks, what happens when you punch with a single hand and want to move in another direction? Does movement automatically snap to the "other" control stick? That's needlessly convoluted and unintuitive. Therefore, you become stationary when punching and move your singular punch inputs with a single control stick.

You argue that Splatoon mixes things better, but Splatoon's gyro/control stick mix is used to control the camera alone, not two separate types of inputs that can occur at the same time. I think that's an unfair comparison to make, especially since ARMS doesn't have camera control. Your disappointment regarding the lack of trigger/bumper usage, I can understand, but your motion and gyro argument doesn't make sense to me.

And while I enjoy the competitive fight game angle of ARMS, judging by the lukewarm reception from the majority of users on this site and your accurate description of the importance of precision in fighting games already invalidates the chance that this game will develop a strong FGC following. Except, thumbs-up grip offers more options and precision than traditional controls do, which is simultaneously the reason the game could be an outstanding example of traditional v motion control, and also the reason it could fail to garner any sort of eSports presence in the same way Splatoon failed despite having similarly solid foundations. I can't think of a fighting game that DOES offer higher precision with motion controls, so arguing that precision is favored by competitive players simply isn't true. Many competitive esports do require motion inputs at professional levels, so again, saying the fighting game community is going to make or break this game is absurd, partially because the argument is fruitless anyway since ARMS isn't looking like a major seller anyway, and partially because the people who do seem committed to playing it at a high level are favoring the motion controls anyway.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 12:00:37 AM by Evan_B »
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Offline Soren

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2017, 12:46:37 AM »
The point of ARMS is that, with the ideal control style, you are able to stagger punches and control their movement at the same time. While you might argue that you should be able to control the directions of both punches with both analog sticks, what happens when you punch with a single hand and want to move in another direction? Does movement automatically snap to the "other" control stick? That's needlessly convoluted and unintuitive. Therefore, you become stationary when punching and move your singular punch inputs with a single control stick.

I wouldn't argue that all because like you said it's unintuitive. You move with the left stick and curve punches with the right stick. Or you map the controllers any which way you want I don't care. This game can work perfectly fine without motion controls. But the worst thing you can do is have this mess of a configuration just to make the motion controls look good by comparison.

I mean, click the left stick to guard? I don't want to advocate firing people but who thought that was a good idea?

Except, thumbs-up grip offers more options and precision than traditional controls do, which is simultaneously the reason the game could be an outstanding example of traditional v motion control, and also the reason it could fail to garner any sort of eSports presence in the same way Splatoon failed despite having similarly solid foundations.


Splatoon didn't have have a spectator mode, one of the most basic things needed in order to gain traction as an esport.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 12:51:19 AM by Soren »
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2017, 11:03:40 AM »
The controls are gimped so that they are universal across all traditional methods, including single Joy Con. I won't pretend this is a good thing, it's not. But that's likely the cause.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2017, 12:40:35 PM »
I'm kinda seeing Evan_B's point.  How would one curve both punches with one stick?  Maybe holding down the trigger lets you curve?
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2017, 09:06:28 PM »
After an hour of playing this game in handheld mode, I have to say I think the traditional layout works really well. Punches work fine with the face buttons, though I might have switched it to A and Y for right and left, moving dash to B. That hour also completely sold me on the game, where I was a bit hesitant going in.
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Offline Soren

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2017, 09:26:57 PM »
https://twitter.com/jtsknight92/status/868275299561164800

One man's praise is another man's uuuuuuuggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

In all seriousness I'm jealous you guys are playing this weekend. I hope to catch some impressions next week.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 09:48:42 PM by Soren »
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2017, 10:11:16 PM »
I played with motion controls.  There were time when they didn't feel as tight as I would've liked, but that could've been some interference.  Overall liked, but anything with more than 2 players just just total chaos.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #69 on: May 27, 2017, 11:15:16 AM »
I'm interested though I'm still not sure if I'm interested enough to buy this day one. In any case, I preordered both Arms and Splatoon 2 on the Amazon last night. I can always change my mind later.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2017, 07:59:45 PM »
Played with the Pro Controller (best controller) and it is so much better!  The ZR and ZL buttons can be used for punching, although this isn't explained anywhere.  I had already gotten used to using A & B, so I had to make some adjusting after discovering this fact.  Moving around the arenas is also MUCH easier with the stick.  Key drawback is the blocking being the press of the left joystick.  That isn't great.

EDIT: Forgot the other test punch was starting.  Wanted to add that switching targets is also much easier as it's mapped to the right stick.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 09:12:46 PM by nickmitch »
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2017, 09:21:23 PM »
I played some more of this tonight, and I am absolutely in love with this game. I kind of had the same experience as nickmitch in terms of having a tough time adjusting to punching with the shoulder buttons because I had gotten used to using A and B, so I kind of switched back and forth unintentionally over the course of it.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2017, 02:12:42 AM »
I've missed all the test matches! :(

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2017, 03:14:34 AM »
There are still two more this weekend and a bunch more next weekend.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Re: ARMS: Get your Virtua On!
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2017, 08:58:12 AM »
This game is terrible.
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