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NWR Forums Discord / RE:Mafio -GX: Wrap-up. It finally ends.
« on: October 16, 2006, 08:32:29 PM »
Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm glad to hear that most everyone enjoyed it. I'm also proud for all the new people that played. We had at about 5 new people in the top 11 there. Sadly, a couple got hosed by being killed early on but I think at least one of them will still be back. (I'm looking at you Spak). Way to go Vudu. Not only did you win but you survived right to the end, making top 3. Or in the case of the story, 1st place.
Anyways, I have to say that it is quite a different experience hosting the game. I had a few worries over what was happening. First, the Stabby incident. Then, Pale trying to squeeze the mole for all his info. Vudu doing the same thing later by telling the mole to spill the beans. 18 Days basically told everyone to vote for Stevey. She was correct but that didn't go over well with Stevey. (I don't think that vendetta has ended). I had ShyGuy making coy posts about my protection of Stabby. Stevey asked me if I sent Infernal his mafia role. I had no way of checking because I had long dumped my mailbox of the roles being sent out, so I was worried that I might have messed up on that mafia.
I'd have some conflicting orders on the same person and had to figure out how the order would work. And questions. Man, the questions. So many explanations of roles. One thing I was worried about also was guiding people on how to use their roles. For instance, Mantidor was the magician and had a lot of questions about the role. Maybe it wasn't the best role for a new person but I tried to explain the benefits of the role and how it could be useful. I gave the example that if he knew the mafia was going to vote out the doctor, he could switch roles with the doctor and keep that role in play. This is something he later did. After Perm basically gave away his role in desperation one day, Mantidor switched roles with him that evening. Then as the doctor Mantidor kept protecting Perm in the night and prevented a MaxVelocity hit. Instance like that made me worry I was influencing the game.
The one time I did try to influence the game was at the end when it became apparent the Killer wasn't going to try to play for the win. I begged and tried to persuade him to think otherwise but he refused. That was another thing that had me worrying because by not playing optimally (playing to win), it could upset other people, like MaxVelocity, because that wasn't the way you play the role. You try to kill everyone, not just one side. It bugged me more personally I think because when I play strategy games with people, I want everyone playing to win. It always bugs me when people just decide to throw strategy out the window and just start doing things for laughs or hindering another player for no reason. I've had a few people do that to me and it just bugs me with a passion. But, let me get away from that subject before I start fuming over my own experiences. It didn't happen to me and if that's how ShyGuy wanted to play, I let him.
Still, it's good to know that in the end, there aren't any real issues that bother people or have them upset. I'm sure there are some things people will want revenge with in the next game.
Now, I mentioned before that I was going to go over the roles and what I thought worked, what needed to be discarded and what should be tossed. Also, I might even delve into the purpose of the role.
Let's start with Godfather. No improvements. I did borrow Pale's idea of replacing the Godfather for this game but I also made sure to make a compelling reason why with the mole. Never came into play. One thing I did think about was letting both mafia's make a hit every night but decided against it might be too powerful for the mafias. The townies can only kill one with a vote and the mafias would be able to kill two at night and that seemed unbalanced.
Mafia Doctor. I brough this role back in part because I wanted each mafia member to have something to do if they weren't godfather. Also, I expected there to be a hunt for the doctor with this role and for it to be a more powerful role later in the game by taking away townie protection and giving the remaining mob members protection. Spak had the best improvement for this role I think. Let them have actions on their mafia's night and actions every day when the townie doctor is dead.
Mafia recruiter. Again, another role from Pale's game. I remember in that game how awesome I thought that role was and talked to my godfather about strategy around it. My thinking was that we should kill the other mafia's recruiters giving us the only one. With our recruiter we keep bring in more member's while the other mafia's slowly wither and die. I later learned that there were great odds to successful recruiting and it was limited who could be recruited. (Although, if my godfather had followed my advice MattVDB would have been dead long ago and not have been able to recruit Zach successfully for a win at the end) I decided to narrow the odds. I tried to think of what would work for a good randomizer. The only thing I had available was a dice. Maybe the odds could have been improved on but again, if it's too easy to recruit, then everyday you vote a mafia member out, another one comes in. I don't think it was that bad. There were two successful recruits. Athrun only had two cracks at it before refusing to recruit because of his mole role.
Mafia Spy - Again, we discussed this already in the dead thread. Should the spy have had an action every night? I debated that but felt no. With two mafias there was a potential for both mafias to find the important townie roles fast and eliminate them.
Mafia propagandist. The name of this role may be changed but I think it has some potential. It allows the mafia to cancel a vote which can help. I liked the idea of picking a corrupted townie but that I will discuss more of next. The one thing that would have to be worked on is what would happen if the propagandist cancelled a vote and it lead to a tie. It would be obvious which person a vote was cancelled for by looking over the tally? How would the Game Master handle that? Fortunately, it never came into play.
Corrupted townie. I know one person who hated this role and I don't blame him. The idea for the corrupted townie came the fact that I thought it would be neat to have a townie working for the mafia. If investigated, he would seem innnocent. The problem came from the fact that the propagandist controlled the townie, thereby limiting his innocence act. There was also conflict over the fact that the Corrupted townie could become innocent again and thus there was a conflict of interest to work with the mafia. If done again, I would just make the corrupted townie a full-fledged mafia member. This person would be whoever the propagandist chooses though. One other thing. The idea for this role came from Zach's mafia game when I offered to give away my vote. i even said I'd post anything the person who had my services wanted. Maybe it should have been a clue that it wasn't the best idea when I was killed by Day 2 or so.
The mole. Likewise, since a townie was working for the mafia, I thought it should be evened by having a mafia member work for the mole. Wandering made some ggod points about the mole's loyalty and one way I tried to fix that was with the blackmailer, though this may again have created a conflict of interest like the corrupted townie. I was glad that the moles did follow the rules and only let out information as specified by the package rule. That said, it might have been to overpowered in the townies advantage. By 4 days, with no recruits, the entire mafia is exposed. Perhaps the way to limit it might have been a package on that mafia's action day. Or maybe a mole just can't work in this game. I came across this role under Wikipedia's article for this game which someone linked me the first time I played Mafia. And so, I thought I'd give it a spin with this game. It also came from my experience with Pale's game where I hooked up with a couple townies and the townie assassin and started revealing who was who on the other mafias. That still brings a smile to me.
The blackmailer - It was a name only role. Basically, by eliminating it, it just allowed the mole to make a final choice. Townie win or mafia win. If there is no mole in the game, there's no reason for this role. And considering what had happened in the game, it might have been better to make the mole return to the mafia automatically. Though again, if the mole's actions were limited to just action nights, then it might still be feasible to let the mole have a choice. If there is no choice, then the townies may want to portect this role more.
That's enough writing for now. I'll talk abit tomorrow about the other roles. Feel free to keep posting your experinces on the game. It helps a lot.
Anyways, I have to say that it is quite a different experience hosting the game. I had a few worries over what was happening. First, the Stabby incident. Then, Pale trying to squeeze the mole for all his info. Vudu doing the same thing later by telling the mole to spill the beans. 18 Days basically told everyone to vote for Stevey. She was correct but that didn't go over well with Stevey. (I don't think that vendetta has ended). I had ShyGuy making coy posts about my protection of Stabby. Stevey asked me if I sent Infernal his mafia role. I had no way of checking because I had long dumped my mailbox of the roles being sent out, so I was worried that I might have messed up on that mafia.
I'd have some conflicting orders on the same person and had to figure out how the order would work. And questions. Man, the questions. So many explanations of roles. One thing I was worried about also was guiding people on how to use their roles. For instance, Mantidor was the magician and had a lot of questions about the role. Maybe it wasn't the best role for a new person but I tried to explain the benefits of the role and how it could be useful. I gave the example that if he knew the mafia was going to vote out the doctor, he could switch roles with the doctor and keep that role in play. This is something he later did. After Perm basically gave away his role in desperation one day, Mantidor switched roles with him that evening. Then as the doctor Mantidor kept protecting Perm in the night and prevented a MaxVelocity hit. Instance like that made me worry I was influencing the game.
The one time I did try to influence the game was at the end when it became apparent the Killer wasn't going to try to play for the win. I begged and tried to persuade him to think otherwise but he refused. That was another thing that had me worrying because by not playing optimally (playing to win), it could upset other people, like MaxVelocity, because that wasn't the way you play the role. You try to kill everyone, not just one side. It bugged me more personally I think because when I play strategy games with people, I want everyone playing to win. It always bugs me when people just decide to throw strategy out the window and just start doing things for laughs or hindering another player for no reason. I've had a few people do that to me and it just bugs me with a passion. But, let me get away from that subject before I start fuming over my own experiences. It didn't happen to me and if that's how ShyGuy wanted to play, I let him.
Still, it's good to know that in the end, there aren't any real issues that bother people or have them upset. I'm sure there are some things people will want revenge with in the next game.
Now, I mentioned before that I was going to go over the roles and what I thought worked, what needed to be discarded and what should be tossed. Also, I might even delve into the purpose of the role.
Let's start with Godfather. No improvements. I did borrow Pale's idea of replacing the Godfather for this game but I also made sure to make a compelling reason why with the mole. Never came into play. One thing I did think about was letting both mafia's make a hit every night but decided against it might be too powerful for the mafias. The townies can only kill one with a vote and the mafias would be able to kill two at night and that seemed unbalanced.
Mafia Doctor. I brough this role back in part because I wanted each mafia member to have something to do if they weren't godfather. Also, I expected there to be a hunt for the doctor with this role and for it to be a more powerful role later in the game by taking away townie protection and giving the remaining mob members protection. Spak had the best improvement for this role I think. Let them have actions on their mafia's night and actions every day when the townie doctor is dead.
Mafia recruiter. Again, another role from Pale's game. I remember in that game how awesome I thought that role was and talked to my godfather about strategy around it. My thinking was that we should kill the other mafia's recruiters giving us the only one. With our recruiter we keep bring in more member's while the other mafia's slowly wither and die. I later learned that there were great odds to successful recruiting and it was limited who could be recruited. (Although, if my godfather had followed my advice MattVDB would have been dead long ago and not have been able to recruit Zach successfully for a win at the end) I decided to narrow the odds. I tried to think of what would work for a good randomizer. The only thing I had available was a dice. Maybe the odds could have been improved on but again, if it's too easy to recruit, then everyday you vote a mafia member out, another one comes in. I don't think it was that bad. There were two successful recruits. Athrun only had two cracks at it before refusing to recruit because of his mole role.
Mafia Spy - Again, we discussed this already in the dead thread. Should the spy have had an action every night? I debated that but felt no. With two mafias there was a potential for both mafias to find the important townie roles fast and eliminate them.
Mafia propagandist. The name of this role may be changed but I think it has some potential. It allows the mafia to cancel a vote which can help. I liked the idea of picking a corrupted townie but that I will discuss more of next. The one thing that would have to be worked on is what would happen if the propagandist cancelled a vote and it lead to a tie. It would be obvious which person a vote was cancelled for by looking over the tally? How would the Game Master handle that? Fortunately, it never came into play.
Corrupted townie. I know one person who hated this role and I don't blame him. The idea for the corrupted townie came the fact that I thought it would be neat to have a townie working for the mafia. If investigated, he would seem innnocent. The problem came from the fact that the propagandist controlled the townie, thereby limiting his innocence act. There was also conflict over the fact that the Corrupted townie could become innocent again and thus there was a conflict of interest to work with the mafia. If done again, I would just make the corrupted townie a full-fledged mafia member. This person would be whoever the propagandist chooses though. One other thing. The idea for this role came from Zach's mafia game when I offered to give away my vote. i even said I'd post anything the person who had my services wanted. Maybe it should have been a clue that it wasn't the best idea when I was killed by Day 2 or so.
The mole. Likewise, since a townie was working for the mafia, I thought it should be evened by having a mafia member work for the mole. Wandering made some ggod points about the mole's loyalty and one way I tried to fix that was with the blackmailer, though this may again have created a conflict of interest like the corrupted townie. I was glad that the moles did follow the rules and only let out information as specified by the package rule. That said, it might have been to overpowered in the townies advantage. By 4 days, with no recruits, the entire mafia is exposed. Perhaps the way to limit it might have been a package on that mafia's action day. Or maybe a mole just can't work in this game. I came across this role under Wikipedia's article for this game which someone linked me the first time I played Mafia. And so, I thought I'd give it a spin with this game. It also came from my experience with Pale's game where I hooked up with a couple townies and the townie assassin and started revealing who was who on the other mafias. That still brings a smile to me.
The blackmailer - It was a name only role. Basically, by eliminating it, it just allowed the mole to make a final choice. Townie win or mafia win. If there is no mole in the game, there's no reason for this role. And considering what had happened in the game, it might have been better to make the mole return to the mafia automatically. Though again, if the mole's actions were limited to just action nights, then it might still be feasible to let the mole have a choice. If there is no choice, then the townies may want to portect this role more.
That's enough writing for now. I'll talk abit tomorrow about the other roles. Feel free to keep posting your experinces on the game. It helps a lot.
