Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: azeke on December 09, 2012, 08:15:24 AM
Title: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: azeke on December 09, 2012, 08:15:24 AM
So yeah. I wanted to know what's the deal with this series and it is easier for me to start from the very beginning so i can see where all elements that make the series came from.
I started playing it this week. And i think i'm stumped. I got rockets, bomb, long laser, one battery. I drew my own map on paper and everything. It was pretty enjoyable up to that point. I discovered two other respawning areas other than the default one but i feel way over my head in both. When i respawn there those fly thingies that come out of the tube kill me one way or another. Especially annoying when you you're get into the door but they still get you between the screens.
It wouldn't be so bad, if i could find any way to progress, but after two days or so of hopeless exploring the same areas i just don't know where to go. I can grind a bit in a safe areas to accumulate some energy but that is pointless when according to my map i've been everywhere and there is no way for me to progress.
I see a few passages that i can't get through now:
one with the sand and a door placed high, i sink in the sand and can't jump high enough to get to it, or maybe i need to double jump i don't know a few areas with flying bugs and no platforms, i guess i should freeze them and use them as platforms but i don't have freezing ray i also remember seeing a red rocket door that is placed inside the tower and seems to require double jump or something to get to and another red rocket door requires me to jump way too high in ball mode than i can at the moment
Of course i can just look up the whole map on internet, but that would spoil me of all exploring.
So what should i do?
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: tendoboy1984 on December 09, 2012, 10:08:08 AM
Quote from: azeke
I got rockets, bomb, long laser, one battery.
I think you mean missiles, bombs, long beam, and energy tank. :)
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on December 09, 2012, 10:21:28 AM
Personally, I think the first Metroid is unplayable; and that's coming from a huge fan of the Metroid series as a whole. Super is where I'd recommend anyone new to the series start.
Good luck though.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on December 10, 2012, 09:16:35 AM
Personally, I think the first Metroid is unplayable; and that's coming from a huge fan of the Metroid series as a whole. Super is where I'd recommend anyone new to the series start.
Good luck though.
I hear this sentiment a lot, and couldn't disagree more. It's perfectly playable, as long as you're patient or willing to use a guide to help you with the maps.
Sounds like you've explored everything you can in the main area and need to move onto the next major area of the game. At the bottom of the second vertical shaft, you can continue to the right and eventually make it to the elevator. That area is where you need to be exploring. You're not too far away from getting the freeze beam and the hi-jump boots, so keep at it.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on December 10, 2012, 10:35:12 AM
Personally, I think the first Metroid is unplayable; and that's coming from a huge fan of the Metroid series as a whole. Super is where I'd recommend anyone new to the series start.
Good luck though.
I hear this sentiment a lot, and couldn't disagree more. It's perfectly playable, as long as you're patient or willing to use a guide to help you with the maps.
I disagree.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on December 12, 2012, 11:52:23 AM
What's so unplayable about it? I agree that it's tricky if you don't use some sort of guide to help you keep from getting lost, but that's the only thing that's even remotely unplayable about it.
I beat Metroid when I was 10, and I've beat it a dozen times since.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 12, 2012, 01:09:49 PM
Even if it's playable, the original Metroid is TERRIBLE now, to the point I would give it like a 3/10 score and urge people not to play it. Thankfully their a great re-make in Metroid: Zero Mission.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on December 12, 2012, 02:39:11 PM
Areas are indistinguishable and there is no map (making it incredibly difficult to figure out where you are in relation to anything), because of how the game deals with dying you spend the first 5 - 10 minutes after any death standing at an enemy spawn point just to get your health back, the jumping (specifically when spinning in the air) is squirelly and lacks finesse, there are little to no visual cues (often resulting in random bombing of each wall and floor). I could go on.
When I use the term 'unplayable' I am of course being deliberately hyperbolic (the game is technically speaking playable because many many people have beaten it and have enjoyed it). For me though, I truely cannot play it. It's just not fun. Ultimately, that's the main barrier for me. I can look past many issues, but if a game's core gameplay isn't fun or engaging then I'm not going to keep playing it just because some people hold it in high regard.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: ejamer on December 12, 2012, 09:31:18 PM
NWR_DrewMG sounds dead on.
Metroid (NES) is playable and can be enjoyed, but is archaic in some ways that make it much less attractive to modern games - ie: people who have limited amounts of time to spend with a single game, and don't want to have to resort to randomly bombing all over the place to find hidden pathways. Agree that the Zero Mission remake is an amazing update, although the handholding went a bit too far by showing the next destination on the map all the time.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: tendoboy1984 on December 12, 2012, 11:38:59 PM
The point of adventure games is to discover secrets for yourself. The old Zelda and Metroid games were the pinnacle of this genre. It's a shame that Nintendo has resorted to "hand-holding" in their more recent games (Fi, Midna, Navi, Super Guide, unlimited 1-Ups).
Games should be challenging, but not rage-inducing...
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on December 13, 2012, 01:13:12 PM
I have a 3 hour road trip ahead of me... I'm going to beat Metroid right now. Yay!
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on December 13, 2012, 01:16:16 PM
Ugh, nevermind. Screen isn't bright enough to see what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: azeke on December 22, 2012, 06:18:06 AM
Sounds like you've explored everything you can in the main area and need to move onto the next major area of the game. At the bottom of the second vertical shaft, you can continue to the right and eventually make it to the elevator. That area is where you need to be exploring. You're not too far away from getting the freeze beam and the hi-jump boots, so keep at it.
Thanks for your useful post. I wandered around and found a winged boots and found a new area way down.
Now how should i draw it since i'm out of space on this A4 paper...
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: azeke on February 18, 2013, 10:10:31 PM
Any advices on how i should draw the map? Should i do it on a regular paper or there is some online tool somewhere?
I lost that last piece of paper and anyway it kinda was getting too dirty with all the tea cup marks and cookie crumbs...
Yesterday i drew a simple layout: (http://s018.radikal.ru/i510/1302/5d/d53bc0254c2f.png) I printed it and then just drew arrows between the cells with the pencil to denote that there is passage there.
The biggest problem is where to start -- hard to judge if the starting screen of the area is is in the corner or middle of the map.
Also, what winged boots do actually?
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Art_de_Cat on February 23, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
The boots allow you to jump higher. Another tactic you may want to get used to is doing bomb jumps. When in a ball, place bombs and with the right timing you can scale up anything. I hate grinding for health and missles in this game.
As far as drawing maps....Id be careful, cause in the deeper area of Norfair has a repeating room that could really throw off a perfectly gridded map up to that point.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 04, 2013, 09:25:45 PM
Yeah I beat Metroid when I was like 8 or 9. You just...play it. Don't forget there are secret passages in some places. Haven't truly played it in like 20 years, but it's certainly playable and beatable.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 03, 2013, 04:48:17 AM
Areas are indistinguishable and there is no map (making it incredibly difficult to figure out where you are in relation to anything), because of how the game deals with dying you spend the first 5 - 10 minutes after any death standing at an enemy spawn point just to get your health back, the jumping (specifically when spinning in the air) is squirelly and lacks finesse, there are little to no visual cues (often resulting in random bombing of each wall and floor). I could go on.
When I use the term 'unplayable' I am of course being deliberately hyperbolic (the game is technically speaking playable because many many people have beaten it and have enjoyed it). For me though, I truely cannot play it. It's just not fun. Ultimately, that's the main barrier for me. I can look past many issues, but if a game's core gameplay isn't fun or engaging then I'm not going to keep playing it just because some people hold it in high regard.
You could say the same thing about the original Zelda and Zelda 2: The Adventures of Link.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: azeke on May 03, 2013, 05:08:53 AM
Can't say anything about Zelda 2, but Zelda 1 is perfectly playable. My favourite in the series from simple pure gameplay point of view.
And Zelda 1 never copy-pasted levels, like Metroid does D:
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on May 03, 2013, 06:09:32 AM
You could say the same thing about the original Zelda and Zelda 2: The Adventures of Link.
You could say some of the same things about Zelda, but not all of the same things. For me what makes Metroid unplayable is the combination of the factors I mentioned.
You could argue that Zelda also suffers from the lack of visual cues and that this requires the player to bomb/burn random points on the map. The difference between Zelda and Metroid, however, is that Zelda's areas are visually distinctive and the different sections of the map actually fit together unlike in Metroid where they are just separated by doors. In Zelda this gives the illusion that there is connective tissue between the different screens and it allows the player to make a mental map of the different areas much more easily.
Zelda also deals with health in a much more efficient manner. It has Fairy Fountains at specific points throughout the map and it also gives you the option to buy red potion. Unlike Metroid which as far as I can tell always requires you to farm enemies for health.
Zelda also plays better in my opinion. As I said in my previous post I find the way Samus controls in the original Metroid to be squirrelly and imprecise (particularly as far as platforming goes) and shooting enemies just doesn't feel satisfying. On the other hand controlling Link with the D-Pad is perfect.
I'm not trying to s*** on anyone who likes the original Metroid. I know there are quite a few people who adore that game. It was an ambitious game and one which I admire to a certain extent. Without the original Metroid we would not have got Super Metroid, my favourite game of all time. For me though, the original Metroid, ambitious as it was, is fundamentally broken and I really do find it unplayable.
*I can't speak to Zelda II because I haven't spent more than 5 minutes with it.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 03, 2013, 08:30:26 AM
You know it came out 27 years ago, right? Sure it's probably hard to try and play through it after Super Metroid or any of the games since, but that doesn't make it unplayable. If I could beat it when I was 8 or 9, and had only played a handful of video games at that point, then it definitely isn't unplayable.
And Zelda 2 sucks.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on May 03, 2013, 08:58:54 AM
You know it came out 27 years ago, right? Sure it's probably hard to try and play through it after Super Metroid or any of the games since, but that doesn't make it unplayable. If I could beat it when I was 8 or 9, and had only played a handful of video games at that point, then it definitely isn't unplayable.
When I use the term 'unplayable' I am of course being deliberately hyperbolic (the game is technically speaking playable because many many people have beaten it and have enjoyed it). For me though, I truly cannot play it. It's just not fun. Ultimately, that's the main barrier for me. I can look past many issues, but if a game's core gameplay isn't fun or engaging then I'm not going to keep playing it just because some people hold it in high regard.
For someone with my sensibilities it is unplayable. Your experience may vary.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 03, 2013, 11:04:24 AM
"I don't like it" would be more appropriate...don't mean to offend or anything though.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on May 03, 2013, 12:15:18 PM
"I don't like it" would be more appropriate...don't mean to offend or anything though.
Actually, 'I don't like it' isn't appropriate for what I'm trying to say, lol. It's not only that I don't like it (although that's certainly true), it's that I find it unplayable. In order words I actually find it impossible to make progress in the game.
No doubt someone will make a snide remark about how I suck at 'vidya gamz', and who would I be to disagree with them? The fact remains, however, that I can quite happily play other (I would argue better) 8-bit games from that era. The difference is that, in my opinion, the original Metroid has aged terribly. I find it to be unplayable.
That shouldn't affect any one else's enjoyment of the game. In fact, I'm envious of those that can enjoy it.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 03, 2013, 03:25:56 PM
Brandogg, SMB came out before Metroid and is more playable than it.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 03, 2013, 04:18:05 PM
Apples and Oranges.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 03, 2013, 04:20:49 PM
No, it's not. You try to excuse Metroid's poor design choices and lack of replayability by essentially citing it's age. SMB came out 2 years earlier and holds up much better.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: pokepal148 on May 03, 2013, 06:23:48 PM
the only charm in that game is to appreciate the many advancements from later games in the series... then I decide I want to PLAY those later games in the series...
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 04, 2013, 08:45:30 AM
No, it's not. You try to excuse Metroid's poor design choices and lack of replayability by essentially citing it's age. SMB came out 2 years earlier and holds up much better.
No, they are apples and oranges. Sure SMB has more replay value (even though it takes all of 5 minutes or so to beat the game), but that doesn't change the fact that they are completely different games. They were both on the NES and have characters that can walk or jump...and that's where the similarities end.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: pokepal148 on May 04, 2013, 10:49:09 AM
No, it's not. You try to excuse Metroid's poor design choices and lack of replayability by essentially citing it's age. SMB came out 2 years earlier and holds up much better.
No, they are apples and oranges. Sure SMB has more replay value (even though it takes all of 5 minutes or so to beat the game), but that doesn't change the fact that they are completely different games. They were both on the NES and have characters that can walk or jump...and that's where the similarities end.
You are still missing the point. You are trying to use the games age to justify its poor aging, but I showed an even older game that still holds up.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on May 04, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
The only sense in which comparing Metroid to Super Mario Bros informs this discussion is in terms of each game's respective scope. Super Mario Bros focused on doing a handful of things really well and has, therefore, stood the test of time; while Metroid, being far grander in scope, was perhaps too ambitious and has arguably aged poorly.
Other than that though, I really don't think comparing the two games is illuminating.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: pokepal148 on May 05, 2013, 09:35:44 PM
The only sense in which comparing Metroid to Super Mario Bros informs this discussion is in terms of each game's respective scope. Super Mario Bros focused on doing a handful of things really well and has, therefore, stood the test of time; while Metroid, being far grander in scope, was perhaps too ambitious and has arguably aged poorly.
Other than that though, I really don't think comparing the two games is illuminating.
that is pretty much the entire nes generation in a nutshell...
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Toruresu on June 22, 2013, 08:44:03 AM
Just get a pen and paper and make a map. That's how I did it back then, believe me it helps.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on June 22, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
Just get a pen and paper and make a map. That's how I did it back then, believe me it helps.
It might help but that doesn't make it fun. Unless of course you're way into cartology, in which case Metroid is the game for you. For me, I can't think of anything more tedious than putting the controller down every couple of minutes in order to painstakingly map out each individual corridor and shaft . F*** that!
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: azeke on June 22, 2013, 09:26:55 AM
Just get a pen and paper and make a map. That's how I did it back then, believe me it helps.
Did this already (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=40194.msg780464#msg780464). Got pretty complicated fast, cause it's hard to judge distance inside the world. That's why i used printed grid.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on June 26, 2013, 09:30:35 AM
Admittedly, I played through Metroid with the help of this book (http://"http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/nes/players-guide.jpg"), meaning that I had the maps in front of me as I played. I don't see any shame in doing that. It didn't diminish my enjoyment of the game at all.
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: Oblivion on June 26, 2013, 03:23:42 PM
y can't metroid crawl?
Title: Re: Metroid (NES) - stumped
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 28, 2013, 12:51:28 PM
No, it's not. You try to excuse Metroid's poor design choices and lack of replayability by essentially citing it's age. SMB came out 2 years earlier and holds up much better.
Aside from both games (Super Mario Bros., Metroid) having clunky controls and terrible jumping mechanics, sure. Mario has too much momentum when he runs, and Samus feels too floaty.
Super Mario World nailed Mario's jumping physics, and Super Metroid nailed Samus's agility.
