Topic: This Week in Awful Downloads

[Kairon]

Aaaaaannnddd.... back into lurk mode! &P

I'm still here even though I post like, once every 2 months or something. I don't think I'll ever leave this site, NWR is like, my home on the internet. *sniff* I love you guys! It's just I've been pretty much failing at juggling life, work, and sleep, that's why I'm like, super-lurky.

[Ian Sane]

I personally don't apply such a negative evaluation to their motives. I do agree that Nintendo always tries to be different, for better or for worse, but I think this is because they're making conscious and concerted efforts to stay competitive by always offering something new, different, or surprising.

The thing is there are times where being different and surprising is something that people want to see and there are some times where it makes no sense at all.  Distributing demos, connecting to online games, managing storage - no one wants these things to be "creative".  These are practical applications with no real entertainment purpose therefore creativity is unnecessary and often counter-intuitive.  People just want it to work.
 
Creativity should be saved for the games where it is welcome and appropriate.

[Kairon]

Creativity should be saved for the games where it is welcome and appropriate.

I disagree vehemently. I feel that creativity is an essential problem-solving tool that applies to a huge number of topics, including things like business models, delivery methods, ergonomics, warfare, gardening, birthday parties...

[Ian Sane]

I disagree vehemently. I feel that creativity is an essential problem-solving tool that applies to a huge number of topics, including things like business models, delivery methods, ergonomics, warfare, gardening, birthday parties...

I agree that it is an essential PROBLEM-solving tool.  "Problem" is the key word.  When something already works like a dream then there is no problem to be solved.  By applying creativity to everything Nintendo breaks stuff that isn't broken.

[Kairon]

I disagree vehemently. I feel that creativity is an essential problem-solving tool that applies to a huge number of topics, including things like business models, delivery methods, ergonomics, warfare, gardening, birthday parties...

I agree that it is an essential PROBLEM-solving tool.  "Problem" is the key word.  When something already works like a dream then there is no problem to be solved.  By applying creativity to everything Nintendo breaks stuff that isn't broken.

But you're framing the wrong problem here. Nintendo has repeatedly stated that they are competing against all forms of entertainment, like movies, or books. This implies that their problem is about how to connect to people who already aren't chosing present videogame experiences, no matter how polished the tech is. Functionality is important and this is definitely a weak spot for Nintendo, but I think that Nintendo feels that unless they can differentiate themselves, they are fighting a losing battle over the long-term.

Besides, conventional wisdom said that the traditional controller already worked like a dream back in 2005. Nintendo saw, and solved, a problem that everyone else thought was working fine. That's why today we have the luxury of arguing about what we're arguing right now instead of grimly contemplating the Big N pulling a Sega.

[Ian Sane]

I think assuming everything is broken and can be fixed in some way is as foolish as thinking everything is fine the way it is.  A smart person acknowledges that some things don't need to be tinkered with and some stuff does.  Nintendo's approach of assuming everything is busted unless they do it the "Nintendo way" is stupid.  You can point to the Wii's success as proof that the methodology works but I can also point to the N64 and Gamecube and Virtual Boy as proof that it doesn't.  Most of Nintendo's problems, including the Wii's problems, stem from their insistence on doing everything a unique and creative way.

It tends to work when Nintendo is actually being the trend setter but tends to fail miserably when someone else comes up with an obvious solution first.  It is only to Nintendo's benefit if their unique Nintendo solution actually improves on the competitor's way of doing it.  If after analysis it does not then it is better that they don't go forward with it and just do something conventional.

The fact that so often there is no benefit or improvement put forward by the unique Nintendo solution suggests to me that Nintendo's priority is in making themselves feel that they're always right instead of actually doing what's best.  It's an inferiority complex and I've seen it in individuals, companies, governments or any organization.  For a long time Nintendo was under the thumb of one man who like any individual can let pride and stubborness get in the way of good decisions and that culture has probably been maintained in the present.

[MegaByte]

I wonder how much they look at outside methodologies.  Miyamoto has indicated that he doesn't really look at competitors games much, but Iwata has publicly acknowledged the iPhone.  i.e. how many of their problems are due to reinventing the wheel due of ignorance vs. the desire to innovate (not that those are necessarily mutually exclusive).

[Art_de_Cat]

I have been greatly dissapointed over the lack of advertising for the download services and for the lack of demos to try out.  You MUST ADVERTISE for people to know what to buy or to get an idea to buy.  Then the few advertisements we do get are only on the Nintendo Channel that not everyone can access.  WTH?

[Kairon]

Honestly Ian, I think you and me are arguing for two extremes and that a healthy balance lies in somewhere in the middle by mixing the two sides we're arguing from. Of course, it's rarely a satisfying discussion to not end up with some crystallized, hard-edged ideal ruleset. &P

I have been greatly dissapointed over the lack of advertising for the download services and for the lack of demos to try out.  You MUST ADVERTISE for people to know what to buy or to get an idea to buy.  Then the few advertisements we do get are only on the Nintendo Channel that not everyone can access.  WTH?

Yeah, I think that Nintendo has also been perplexed by this problem, and that they're starting to realize the distance they have to yet to go to realize their goals.

I recall Iwata talking about the similar issue that only self-educated users were taking full potential of their download services. He also talked about how they wanted to try for more of a "pushing" content to users instead of users having to proactively "pull" stuff down by going into the existing shop and advertising services of their own accord. (Did I get that backwards? I'm new to push-pull terminology).

I think it was a talk more geared to the handheld space, but I felt it demonstrated that Nintendo was realizing how new they were at addressing modern connectivity issues.

[Boci]

Hi all,

that is really an interesting coincidence here. I am the designer of a small game development team and we finished our first game for WiiWare 2 weeks ago - waiting for approval by Nintendo. Hopefully our game will then be released the next weeks.

I agree that having demos for WiiWare titles were a great idea - and a totally usual one in the games industry after all. I can't understand why Nintendo decided to take down this opportunity as it is one of the biggest chances for WiiWare game developers out there, unless you are a bigger team like Hudson Soft etc...

I wrote Neal an email with informations about our game, i hope we will have at least a small news or article, so we can get some publicity before the game is out. I wrote to so many news and review site teams and it's weird, that i only get replies from about 10-15% of the sites. Seems that there is a real problem for WiiWare titles not only on the platform side but also in the press.

But still we won't give up, as we believe in our game I hope you will see this, too

Thank you for this article - and the amount and intensity of the comments is a glow in the dark for me after all

PS: Sorry for my English - we are based in Germany, i hope this counts as a little excuse

[UncleBob]

In regards to backwards compatibility - The Intellivision was also compatible with Atari 2600 games through use of an adapter.

But, I believe, the first case of true backwards compatibility was through the Atari 7800.  Although not the world's biggest selling system, I don't think anything before it was truly able to play games from a previous system without any kind of adapter.

[anand]

Boci's post was very interesting. I've always suspected that most of the general gaming press has no desire whatsoever to cover WiiWare and DSiWare (and, to get a bit more conspiracy-theory, the Wii and the DS). I'm not sure it's a conspiracy, though, to be honest. People just play what their peers are playing, and the gaming press is largely incestuous. It's a tiny gene pool, in terms of preferred platforms, tastes, and even opinions. And representative of only a tiny swath of the game-playing audience.

It staggers me how media personalities on podcasts go on and on about how many GREAT games there are on the XBLIndies service, but totally ignore the WiiWare and DSiWare gems, relegating the entire services to punchlines by focusing on the shovelware (which there IS quite a bit of, admittedly, but XBLIndies???). Similarly, even shitty HD games that nobody cares about will get discussed in place of flagship Wii/DS games. And it seems like the vast majority of the media would never pay to play a Wii game. They literally have to be paid in order to do it, which leads to widespread ignorance about the platform. Even wider spread, because their opinions are funneling directly into the ears of gamers. And the effect on the mainstream gaming hivemind is palpable. It even seems to affect publishing decisions, especially in the beginning of this gen.

Anyway, that's what I like about the NWR podcasts. You guys manage to carve out your own niche and be unique, just by discussing Nintendo platforms seriously and in-depth. Most other gaming podcasts are almost interchangeable.

[Boci]

Unfortunately, i didn't get a reply from Neal yet...but we will have the first video up on the games website soon, maybe i will contact him again then with new stuff which might be more interesting to see/show...

[Stratos]

Boci, just start a thread about the game in the Nintendo Console Discussion part of the boards. A guy named Legendo did a similar thing to promote his WiiWare game and that worked out very well. He got several articles onto the site through that thread.

[Boci]

Cool, thanks! I will give it a try now

edit: started a thread with an introduction of our game. I hope this is ok...in case you're interested here is the link:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=32427.0