Author Topic: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'  (Read 217301 times)

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Offline Elixir

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #525 on: August 23, 2009, 03:43:00 PM »
I agree with you that labels are silly.  But I don't think there is anything particuarily "ironic" about a gamer wanting fantastic graphics or more reasons to replay a game.  Some people like story, some controls, some a new experience, some just another FPS, and some unique or cutting edge graphics.  For example, racing games are my favorite genre.  There's nothing like flying through the tracks of Burnout and Pacific Rift.  In order for a visceral experience, only the latest and greatest graphics will do.  Going back to most GCN/PS2 racers now is a yawn fest (save Mario Kart and Twisted Metal)  Therefore, top notch hd graphics increase the gaming out of body experience for many people and become a legitimate request.

Back to your first statement though.  If the vast majority of "hardcore gamers" praising hd graphics, actually played their respective 360/PS3 on a 15 year old CRT, well, that would be ironic.  Almost as ironic as gamers who whine about gamerscore and long for the days of old.  Days where the score chase was alive and well in arcades across the world.  Donkey Kong anyone?

First of all, what is this tangent on visuals?  1080p is a resolution, not a whole new graphical coat of paint.  A game with fantastic art design will always look fantastic, no matter what resolution it is represented in, and games that look like crap will not magically look great when that resolution is increased.  And it is for that reason I find this exaggerated enthusiasm for 1080p completely unnecessary.  And if you cannot go back to a game because it lacks the highest resolution or visual fidelity possible, then well, I feel bad for you.

And surely you jest about the arcade comparison to achievements.  A game in the arcade with a scoreboard is a single game in which players compete for the highest score.  The point system that achievements and trophies entail involve every single game and a TOTAL score.  No longer is there a competition for a single score of theoretically-infinite outcomes, but who has the most spare time to perform ridiculous tasks and rent awful games for a set number of achievements.  This is what I have been attacking, not the inclusion of achievements themselves, yet you keep skewing it in illogical ways.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #526 on: August 23, 2009, 03:50:23 PM »
Can we please talk about the MEDIA again?

Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #527 on: August 23, 2009, 04:06:42 PM »
In any case, I have proven that achievements, to games sales and console userbases, have really contributed nothing and one COULD argue they've actually detracted from sales.  So you are free to leave.  Or you can try to discredit me and these figures and stick around, which is kinda what everybody's expecting.

Yeah, Edge was so stupid to run this story a couple months ago.  What a bunch of dumba$$es!  Obviously, they didn't take into account the updated study to debunk the claim.  Go ahead and provide a link to it and I'll email it to Edge.  God I can't stand those guys, they hate the Wii.  They'll twist any study in order to save teh industry from going casual.

Quote
Electronic Entertainment Design and Research (EEDAR) analyzed the 4,615 achievements incorporated in 124 retail and 63 downloadable game titles available for the Microsoft® Xbox 360™ during the period November 1, 2005 through June 1, 2007.

Oh my God, you are like the worst debater in the history of the world.  You didn't even READ YOUR OWN LINK.  This is the methodology for EEDAR's research on this issue.  Jesus Christ how embarrassing for you.

Uhhh.  I did read the link.  I knew it was from 2007.  So did Edge.  I'm assumed they USED IT b/c there isn't a more RECENT study to debunk it.  A study which I asked YOU to PROVIDE.  So where is it Juggy?  Sounds like you misread another short post.  Jeeebus, how emabarrasing for you.

I might add, isn't it a bit ironic you're defending Nintendo's "thank you very much we don't need them"  arrogant like attitude on the issue of achievements (or carrots as they say)?  Just admit you're a fanboi dude and we'll be cool, as there is no sense in debating the deluded.  Opps, wasn't supposed to bring that topic back up!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 04:13:30 PM by D_Average »
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Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #528 on: August 23, 2009, 04:12:37 PM »
And surely you jest about the arcade comparison to achievements.  A game in the arcade with a scoreboard is a single game in which players compete for the highest score.  The point system that achievements and trophies entail involve every single game and a TOTAL score.  No longer is there a competition for a single score of theoretically-infinite outcomes, but who has the most spare time to perform ridiculous tasks and rent awful games for a set number of achievements.  This is what I have been attacking, not the inclusion of achievements themselves, yet you keep skewing it in illogical ways.

To this, I would simply refer you to any gaming podcast around the time Geometry Wars 1 or 2 came out.  Everybody lost sleep due to the viscous cycle of topping their friends score.  The score chase is back, alive and well today, with much thanks to MS's idea of points.  I don't own a 360, but I'm glad they implemented the system. 
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #529 on: August 23, 2009, 04:20:06 PM »
Isn't there a big difference between chasing a Hi Score and chasing a Gamer Score?

Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #530 on: August 23, 2009, 04:33:45 PM »
Isn't there a big difference between chasing a Hi Score and chasing a Gamer Score?

Definitely.  Anybody can get a huge gamer score with a lil bit of time and $$.  I think taking it that far is silly, in terms of obsessing over your total score or trophy level, and you could end up ruining your life over it.  Trying to best your buddies time or score in a few games is where its at, or collecting more platinum and golds than him/her.  Something that takes real skill.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #531 on: August 23, 2009, 05:07:39 PM »
At the post above my last one you tried to say achievements (GamerScore) were alive and well since people were chasing Hi Scores in Geometry wars. Then in the next post you say that they are very different things. seems very contradicting.

Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #532 on: August 23, 2009, 05:18:41 PM »
At the post above my last one you tried to say achievements (GamerScore) were alive and well since people were chasing Hi Scores in Geometry wars. Then in the next post you say that they are very different things. seems very contradicting.

Yeah, I can see that.  And I'm not too familiar with the way it works on 360, but I was trying to communicate that beating your friends high score on a game is a good thing.  And on many games, this will give you an achievement or trophy which adds fuel to beating that score.  In addition, its a good thing to compete with friends to see who can unlock every achievement or trophy on a game you both love (similar to bragging about getting 120 stars in SMG as Luigi).  While on the opposite side, running to Blockbuster to rent s##7 titles to boost your overall score is taking it a bit too seriously and too far.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 05:21:13 PM by D_Average »
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #533 on: August 23, 2009, 05:39:29 PM »
Quote
Uhhh.  I did read the link.  I knew it was from 2007.  So did Edge.  I'm assumed they USED IT b/c there isn't a more RECENT study to debunk it.  A study which I asked YOU to PROVIDE.  So where is it Juggy?  Sounds like you misread another short post.  Jeeebus, how emabarrasing for you.

I've proven my point, bud, in that large post with the sales figures.  Achievements have not grown sales beyond non-achievement games and systems.  You RESPONDED to this claim with this outdated study from 2007, which measured a 2 year period from 2005 to 2007, after which achievements seem to have not BESTED non-achievement platforms.  The burden of proof is on YOU, dude. YOU have to prove that achievements have grown sales, because I have already shown that they haven't, using actual numerical, empirical data instead of a Microsoft PR guy using an old study.

And seriously, "Juggy?"  Just shut up.

Quote
I might add, isn't it a bit ironic you're defending Nintendo's "thank you very much we don't need them"  arrogant like attitude on the issue of achievements (or carrots as they say)?  Just admit you're a fanboi dude and we'll be cool, as there is no sense in debating the deluded.  Opps, wasn't supposed to bring that topic back up!

I am unaware of any stance Nintendo has on achievement-like systems, except they seem to be mostly sticking to the method that they've used since Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001), that is, having neat unlockables in the game as opposed to the unlockable things being a TITLE or some words and meaningless numbers and the actual extra content requiring a DLC purchase.  And I can see you are trying to label a fanboy because I agree with Nintendo in both instances of them not being arrogant for talking about sales numbers and because I don't see the value in achievement systems (like the majority of gamers apparently), when I don't exactly agree with everything they've done lately (Not localizing some of their own games in the hopes that third parties would use this opportunity for once instead of making crap that won't sell and then blaming either Nintendo or Wii customers for their own failure.)  But I'm not a deluded fanboy just because I disagree with you, because, a lot of people here disagree with you.  Which would make most everybody here a deluded fanboy.

Or more logically, it's just you who is bonkers, and you never discuss my points or anybody's points or the topic at hand and just throw insults around or psychological terms you don't understand because you think it gives you "street cred" or something.  But it doesn't.  You seem uninterested in the debate or the topic and think that if you are the loudest monkey in the pen, you'll get a banana.  And it's pretty cute when you think you have the upper hand, like you'll "win" something if you can just drag it out past logic or past anybody's interest in dealing with you.

And BnM, I'd watch out if he starts throwing around insults in your direction when you catch him in a bind.  If he comes up with "Juggalo" (whatever the hell that is) from "Deguello," he might get into some racial stuff out of your name.  So, be prepared, eh?
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #534 on: August 23, 2009, 05:49:08 PM »
I agree with Deg, achievements are boring IMO, I see no real point to them besides patting yourself on the back. Also to add onto Deg's statement, Nintendo has shown they support achievements, just look at Metroid Prime Corruption, and now Metroid Prime Trilogy. The primary difference is that those achievements get you tokens that you can use to unlock bonuses so they actually have a purpose.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #535 on: August 23, 2009, 06:29:35 PM »
Deg, I'm not worried about D_Avg. making any innapproproate names from my screen name. The term he called you isn't a play on your name either (if he's using it the way i think he is).

Wait, Deguello is a Juggalo?

Juggalo - Fan of Insane Clown Posse (ICP)

maybe meaning that he is calling Deguello an Insane Clown

here is a link to what he ma be talking about
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=juggalo&search_type=&aq=f

Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #536 on: August 23, 2009, 07:16:23 PM »
Anyways. Back to the media anyone?  For now I'll be off trophy hunting.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #537 on: August 24, 2009, 02:43:29 PM »
I still haven't listened to that pod cast, but doesn't Bloodworth work over at GameTrailers now? I wonder what he has to say about some of these choice quotes

Quote from: GT Podcast
"The big loser, Nintendo" And said with a chuckle.

"Nintendo is looking more fucked than a Tijuana whore"

"There just lookin' out of touch" The irony.

"They can't get over themselves"

"Who is gonna get the Wii for 250 when you can get the beasts of machine for an extra 50"

"You know motion controls are coming and you can play with those controls on games that look and sound way better"

"Almost like the toy my 1st videogame console"

"I would say everyone stop buying the Wii but they already have"

"Nintendo it's game over bro"

"Sony just released a console that looks completely different from the PS3"

"Created a system for people who don't buy freakin games"

"No people that buy software"

"Would a price cut even work"

"Could cut the price to $150 and see a bump but no long term benefit"

Nintendo "Were doomed were done"

"Punch-Out tanked"

"hope 50% on Wii has gotten a taste for gaming and buy a PS3"

"Between MS and Sony they can really finish off the Wii as a game console in the next 12 months"

"Not gonna shed a tear over the Wii"

"Sick of that console, I have No respect for Nintendo right now"

NSMB Wii "frickin' lame"

"could be the start of a 2 horse race"

"Nintendo can make their toys which is what there best at They've stopped making hardcore games"

someone should get him on the phone.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #538 on: August 24, 2009, 02:50:03 PM »
bahahahahaha
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #539 on: August 24, 2009, 02:59:05 PM »
I still haven't listened to that pod cast, but doesn't Bloodworth work over at GameTrailers now? I wonder what he has to say about some of these choice quotes

Quote from: GT Podcast
"The big loser, Nintendo" And said with a chuckle.

"Nintendo is looking more ****ed than a Tijuana whore"

"There just lookin' out of touch" The irony.

"They can't get over themselves"

"Who is gonna get the Wii for 250 when you can get the beasts of machine for an extra 50"

"You know motion controls are coming and you can play with those controls on games that look and sound way better"

"Almost like the toy my 1st videogame console"

"I would say everyone stop buying the Wii but they already have"

"Nintendo it's game over bro"

"Sony just released a console that looks completely different from the PS3"

"Created a system for people who don't buy freakin games"

"No people that buy software"

"Would a price cut even work"

"Could cut the price to $150 and see a bump but no long term benefit"

Nintendo "Were doomed were done"

"Punch-Out tanked"

"hope 50% on Wii has gotten a taste for gaming and buy a PS3"

"Between MS and Sony they can really finish off the Wii as a game console in the next 12 months"

"Not gonna shed a tear over the Wii"

"Sick of that console, I have No respect for Nintendo right now"

NSMB Wii "frickin' lame"

"could be the start of a 2 horse race"

"Nintendo can make their toys which is what there best at They've stopped making hardcore games"

someone should get him on the phone.

The editors actually said this? Or did they use random comments from GT trollers?

Either way, its like the price reduction of the PS3 and a new design appeared as a bright glimmer of hope during Nintendo's moments of hardcore disruption, which in a way is sad beyond belief. I understand that being in third place hurt some fans (now you know how Nintendo fans felt during the N64 and GC games, Sony fans), but still...
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #540 on: August 24, 2009, 03:10:00 PM »
I still haven't listened to that pod cast, but doesn't Bloodworth work over at GameTrailers now? I wonder what he has to say about some of these choice quotes

Quote from: GT Podcast
"The big loser, Nintendo" And said with a chuckle.

"Nintendo is looking more ****ed than a Tijuana whore"

"There just lookin' out of touch" The irony.

"They can't get over themselves"

"Who is gonna get the Wii for 250 when you can get the beasts of machine for an extra 50"

"You know motion controls are coming and you can play with those controls on games that look and sound way better"

"Almost like the toy my 1st videogame console"

"I would say everyone stop buying the Wii but they already have"

"Nintendo it's game over bro"

"Sony just released a console that looks completely different from the PS3"

"Created a system for people who don't buy freakin games"

"No people that buy software"

"Would a price cut even work"

"Could cut the price to $150 and see a bump but no long term benefit"

Nintendo "Were doomed were done"

"Punch-Out tanked"

"hope 50% on Wii has gotten a taste for gaming and buy a PS3"

"Between MS and Sony they can really finish off the Wii as a game console in the next 12 months"

"Not gonna shed a tear over the Wii"

"Sick of that console, I have No respect for Nintendo right now"

NSMB Wii "frickin' lame"

"could be the start of a 2 horse race"

"Nintendo can make their toys which is what there best at They've stopped making hardcore games"

someone should get him on the phone.

The editors actually said this? Or did they use random comments from GT trollers?

Either way, its like the price reduction of the PS3 and a new design appeared as a bright glimmer of hope during Nintendo's moments of hardcore disruption, which in a way is sad beyond belief. I understand that being in third place hurt some fans (now you know how Nintendo fans felt during the N64 and GC games, Sony fans), but still...

Those quotes came from the most recent edition of the Gametrailers Invisible Walls podcast.  While I disagree with the hyperbole, at this point I can't blame them for being more than a little annoyed with Nintendo at this point.  Still, it's their podcast and they can say whatever the hell they want.  I doubt most of them even review Wii games so what does it matter?

EDIT: I hesitate to put this up because it's a little redundant, but here:

http://www.gamecritics.com/tim-spaeth/gamecritics-com-podcast-episode-18-wii-hate-nintendo

Gametrailers is far from the only podcast to put forth unfavorable impressions on the Wii.  I don't see what the big deal is there so long as it doesn't interfere with their reviews and impressions.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 03:15:57 PM by broodwars »
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #541 on: August 24, 2009, 03:14:48 PM »
They can say that they hate the Wii (really not uncommon for the gaming media which will probably prevent them from ever gaining those new gamers as their customers) but blatant nonsense like that should not get put into anything that ends up on the site.

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #542 on: August 24, 2009, 03:18:15 PM »
Yeah, it might be their podcast and you are right in that they have the right to say whatever they want. But just because they have that right it doesn't mean that they won't look any less childish and ignorant, especially if they don't even bother with Wii software.

They could have handled this in an objective manner, stating that Nintendo's apparently weak fall schedule could be an advantage for the PS3 and its new slim design and price point. But instead they decide to handle this in the most immature way possible and pander to the lowest common denominator like they were the sons of godofgtaIII and Chad Warden.

Its precisely this sort of thing that turns me away from videogame media. They want to be taken seriously in the industry, yet resort to childish behavior to drive a point across. It might sound impossible but you CAN be objective and still express your opinion without having to sound like a disgruntled fanboy, even if deep, deep down you feel a hatred for all things Nintendo/MS/Sony.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #543 on: August 24, 2009, 03:52:15 PM »
I still don't and will never get the Wii hate.

Whatever, go complain while I have fun.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #544 on: August 24, 2009, 03:54:44 PM »
Wow, let's not reward those geniuses with our patronage.

I personally do hope things get a little tough for Nintendo in the NA market. Competition is a good thing, and it may motivate NOA to release Disaster, Fatal Frame, and Trace Memory here in the US.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #545 on: August 24, 2009, 04:03:35 PM »
This just comes back around as Gaming "Journalism" not being held to the same standards and integrity as News Journalism. If a news place that was trying to be taken seriously like, um, lets say MSNBC, had a new caster that represents the channel that decided to do a full on opinion piece that just had no journalistic integrity whatsoever, they wouldn't be advertising it on the channel and probably not directly on the site. The newscaster would have to pimp his personal blog, which would probably be completely unrelated to the msnbc site, just to put up such a factless biased opinionated hit piece.

You can't want to be a respected source of factual news and opinionated commentary while acting like a butt hurt man-child whose mommy brought him strawberry milk instead of chocolate, so now he wants to go off on an BS tirade based on his own fantasy perception of the market he supposedly professionally covers. They are sounding like FOX news with all the false propaganda spreading just because they aren't the 'on top' anymore.

It's one thing to express your opinion, but it's another to just out right lie and spread the FUD while contradicting yourself in the process.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 04:06:06 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #546 on: August 24, 2009, 05:02:26 PM »
For the record I think that Invisible Walls is one of the worst video game podcasts ever.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #547 on: August 24, 2009, 05:19:34 PM »
For the record I think that Invisible Walls is one of the worst video game podcasts ever.

Well considering invisible walls are one of the laziest technical shortcuts in gaming, it makes sense.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #548 on: August 24, 2009, 05:32:14 PM »
This is the equivalent of those high school nerds who played Magic: The Gathering during lunch and horded their own "elite table" while telling noobs to play somewhere else cuz their deck "sucks," as freshly chewed Cheetos dripped from their lips while drawing the next greasy card from an oily deck.

Just what I'd expect from a media outlet whose business is exclusively rooted in generating ad revenue by attracting visitors to quick (non-critically thought-out) eye-candy content.  They're doing a GREAT JOB expanding their means of success, getting attention and expanding their audience by providing shitty content, which is sorta the kinda thing they and the "media" accuse Nintendo of.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #549 on: August 24, 2009, 05:52:27 PM »
I've always said nerds are the worst bullies of them all.