Author Topic: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker  (Read 76531 times)

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Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #75 on: April 15, 2019, 04:16:58 PM »
ANH is definitely Luke's story, after that it opens up and Luke becomes less important the the world as a whole. His journey becomes more and more personal. Leia and Han are near/equal protagonist in ESB. By RotJ whether he won or lost the final confrontation the ultimate outcome for the galaxy would have been the same.

It is clearly the PT that had retcon this idea of OT being the Skywalker saga.
Seriously, bruh? Leia is a Skywalker. So is Vader. Three of the main players in the original trilogy are Skywalkers. WTF are you talking about?

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #76 on: April 15, 2019, 04:28:27 PM »
Rian's stated goal was to be as divisive as possible. He fully intended to piss off half the fans which he exceeded beyond all expectations. It's not crazy, it's fact. If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.

Where did he say this?
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2019, 07:34:07 PM »
"I want to make this movie go in a different direction, take some risks, and maybe even make some of the diehard fans a little mad."

Closest thing I can find.  From a random Reddit thread with no actual souce though.
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Offline lolmonade

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2019, 07:53:54 PM »
I also found this:

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2018/05/17/rian-johnson-destroy-star-wars-fandom/

Which isn't a direct quote so much as a blogger taking his comments about the movie Brick and projecting that statement on his work with The Last Jedi.  It'd be helpful if oohhboy provided a link to said statement since he's claimed it a few times.  You'd think something like that would be pretty easy to drum up with a google search.

-------------------------------

I looked a bit further, and found an article where he explicitly stated it wasn't his intention to split the fanbase or piss them off.

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a846007/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson-never-wanted-to-divide-fans/
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 08:01:25 PM by lolmonade »

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2019, 08:02:36 PM »
Knowing how oohhboy operates, he probably just heard something that suits what he wants to believe and went with it.
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2019, 09:30:38 PM »
I think the best way to tie things together for a sequel trilogy would have been for Rey to somehow be related to Obi Wan, like a granddaughter, who is then kept secret and hidden. Thematically, it turns the series from being about Skywalkers to being about Skywalkers and Kenobis. There's the issue of where his child comes from, but with cloning technology and a partially mysterious life on Tattoine looking over Luke, there are a few approaches. A lot of people believed The Force Awakens was leading toward an Obi-Wan connection, and like a few have stated, it's still possible, especially if Kylo Ren was lying.

Past that, I thought Snoke was intended to be Plagueis, as well. With Plagueis creating the Skywalker line, and the intention being that Anakin had the most force potential (and his offspring would likewise have the same potential,) the whole series could wrap around with the concept that Anakin was created to be possessed or taken over, however to do so, it requires him to first be robed into the dark side. His loss and injuries at the hands of Obi-Wan significantly reduced his potential, so nothing further happened. Until Luke arrives.

But Luke doesn't turn, so there goes that as an option. But there is more Skywalker blood. Kylo Ren happens. He's dark, he's angry, but he's not dark enough. There's still some good there. The Force Awaken plays out, and Snoke brings him to him. Why? Dark force possession or something similar. Still works with Rey as a Kenobi, who finally could redeem a Skywalker, etc., etc. I think it would round things in the PT.



Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2019, 09:59:20 PM »
I'm not Oohboy, but he is probably referring to something like this:


https://youtu.be/8ixTU8cJb0g

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2019, 10:48:56 PM »
I thought that was his goal with epVIII, not just with all his films.  Honestly, it's not a bad approach for being a filmmaker in general.  Although, I've only seen TLJ and Looper, and I don't remember Looper being "divisive".  I remember people arguing over how JGL got the job in that movie, but not that it was terrible.  So, he missed the mark there.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2019, 10:57:13 PM »
Obi-wan did have an unrequited love interest in the Clone Wars in the form of the Mandelorian Queen, and even considered running away with her, but he stuck to his duty and she to hers, and she was slain by Darth Maul in an attempt to provoke Kenobi. While there could have been a surprise hidden love child that was hidden away without Kenobi's knowledge, it would have compromised his character and his role of foil to Anakin because Kenobi was the one who overcame the dark urges of revenge and passion.

What if it turned out Shimi had twins and gave one up for adoption (a girl) and kept Anakin. Obiwan could have interacted with the orphaned sister of Anakin, maybe he helps her find a new life and so she names her children after him or something.

Heck, we could even say Maz Kanata took in the sister to tie her into the series in a more meaningful and relevant way. So then she finds out this girl, who is the daughter/granddaughter of Anakin's sister, comes waltzing into her tavern with Han Solo and Maz, knowing a lot of back lore, would be able to put the pieces together and realize her potential.

Shimi had no reason to tell the Jedi about the second child. Especially if she game her up at birth. No reason to, as she was gone and bringing her up would just cause pain and regret for Shimi.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #84 on: April 16, 2019, 12:04:02 AM »
^^ Bingo

While in itself isn't that smoking gun when you add TLJ as evidence and his twitter war, bit by bit you build up a case.

Hamill tried to warn us. If it was only a couple examples, sure you might brush it away. When you have 50+ that becomes a clear pattern.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKlo-plLJZI

JJ inadvertently reveals his lack of plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xj9vF4aoCA

ANH is definitely Luke's story, after that it opens up and Luke becomes less important the the world as a whole. His journey becomes more and more personal. Leia and Han are near/equal protagonist in ESB. By RotJ whether he won or lost the final confrontation the ultimate outcome for the galaxy would have been the same.

It is clearly the PT that had retcon this idea of OT being the Skywalker saga.
Seriously, bruh? Leia is a Skywalker. So is Vader. Three of the main players in the original trilogy are Skywalkers. WTF are you talking about?

Leia didn't know until RotJ. Vadar wasn't in on in till ESB. Luke gets less screen time and journey becomes personal. His impact on the overall rebellion is minimal by RotJ. That is not to say he isn't a protagonist over the OT, other character get promoted from support. By RotJ you had Han, Leia, Lando. It dilutes the idea of the Skywalker saga into something bigger than that to a wider galaxy full of all sort of characters.

PT shrank all that right down to being a Skywalker thing.

I thought that was his goal with epVIII, not just with all his films.  Honestly, it's not a bad approach for being a filmmaker in general.  Although, I've only seen TLJ and Looper, and I don't remember Looper being "divisive".  I remember people arguing over how JGL got the job in that movie, but not that it was terrible.  So, he missed the mark there.

His mindset is completely wrong for the situation. Doing whatever can be great for an independent film but when you have an pre-existing universe you cannot do that, there are rules you can't break, people you have to take care of, fixed points.

It's why Looper isn't divisive nor anything previous TLJ, there was nothing to divide.
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Offline lolmonade

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #85 on: April 16, 2019, 08:28:27 AM »
I'm not Oohboy, but he is probably referring to something like this:


https://youtu.be/8ixTU8cJb0g

I'm letting the whole "is The Last Jedi a good or bad movie" discussion go, because opinions are subjective and I actually enjoyed it which is on the different side of the fence of most here.

But that youtube video is lazy attempt at creating a narrative that he had some agenda to get Star Wars fans butthurt by stringing together a bunch of prior interviews for prior movies (most 8 years ago or more) where he isn't talking about a joy of antagonizing an audience, but rather what his filmmaking philosophy is, and why he likes working with genre films because he likes to use the ruleset in them to subvert expectations. 

Where's a jerking-off emoji when you need one?  :rolleyes: 

Knowing how oohhboy operates, he probably just heard something that suits what he wants to believe and went with it.

Apparently.  I like Star Wars and talking about it, but I guess this isn't the thread for me, lol.


Offline nickmitch

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2019, 09:44:59 AM »
I thought that was his goal with epVIII, not just with all his films.  Honestly, it's not a bad approach for being a filmmaker in general.  Although, I've only seen TLJ and Looper, and I don't remember Looper being "divisive".  I remember people arguing over how JGL got the job in that movie, but not that it was terrible.  So, he missed the mark there.

His mindset is completely wrong for the situation. Doing whatever can be great for an independent film but when you have an pre-existing universe you cannot do that, there are rules you can't break, people you have to take care of, fixed points.

It's why Looper isn't divisive nor anything previous TLJ, there was nothing to divide.

That's why I think saying that he's intentionally trying to be divisive on TLJ is the wrong takeaway from those quotes.  He wants to make films that people are passionate about, and that's fine.

You also don't need an existing fanbase to split your audience.  That's not why Looper wasn't divisive.  Other movies have done so without a pre-existing universe.

And having "people you have to take care of" sounds kinda entitled.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2019, 03:00:32 PM »
I took the "people you have to take care of" to mean characters in an established series, who should be treated a certain way because of how previous entries established them to be. Akbar and Lando arguably were not "taken care of" because they unceremoniously killed off Akbar where there was a role he could have easily filled for a much greater impact, and fans have been asking about Lando since the new trilogy kicked off, which seems like a huge missed opportunity to me.

Though it does sound a bit entitled in reference to fans, you do want to keep your fans at least somewhat happy/placated. Fans are the primary supporters of a product and if they aren't happy, they'll leave to something else.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2019, 03:51:53 PM »
As far as I'm concerned I don't give a **** about anything that happens in the Clone Wars tv show. It's peripheral cartoon that should never be considered canon. I shouldn't have to dredge through it to know what's going on in the movies. It should merely be ancillary in nature.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #89 on: April 16, 2019, 04:00:56 PM »
I took the "people you have to take care of" to mean characters in an established series, who should be treated a certain way because of how previous entries established them to be. Akbar and Lando arguably were not "taken care of" because they unceremoniously killed off Akbar where there was a role he could have easily filled for a much greater impact, and fans have been asking about Lando since the new trilogy kicked off, which seems like a huge missed opportunity to me.

Though it does sound a bit entitled in reference to fans, you do want to keep your fans at least somewhat happy/placated. Fans are the primary supporters of a product and if they aren't happy, they'll leave to something else.

It's a forum post, so if he meant "characters" when he said "people" then that's a point I'll concede.  I'd rather stories either pick up so far in the future that old characters are dead, or happen so remotely that it makes sense for them not to be there.  I do miss Lando and am glad he seems to be making an appearance in IX.  VII made me think "where's Lando?" more than VIII though.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2019, 06:50:27 PM »
As far as I'm concerned I don't give a **** about anything that happens in the Clone Wars tv show. It's peripheral cartoon that should never be considered canon. I shouldn't have to dredge through it to know what's going on in the movies. It should merely be ancillary in nature.
It's last 3 seasons are also some of the best star wars content we've ever had, same with most of Rebels.

There have been two major cases of the Animated stuff starting to creep into the movies that I can think of, the first one was Saw Garrera being in Rogue One, which I felt was handled well. Even if you didn't see TCW they give you every piece of information you need on him to understand his role in the story. The second one was Maul's appearance in Solo which was handled remarkably poorly, to the point where even if you're familiar with every piece of Canon that he appears in you still have no context as to how he got back into the criminal underworld game considering the Son of Dathomir comic line showed the criminal empire he established for himself in TCW completely falling apart and that's canon.

Oh, and there's that whole random background character in ROTJ was actually Captain Rex from TCW/Rebels thing but that honestly feels more like some sort of weird unintentional coincidence thingy where the fanbase noticed that Rex's design in rebels looks very similar to this random background character who was part of the Endor strike team and Filoni/Lucasfilm decided to roll with it than anything.


Offline Stratos

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2019, 07:06:41 PM »
Yeah, the Rex thing was purely coincidence as that guy, like every other thing living or not, has a fleshed out backstory in the old canon. Since everything was reset and fans pointed it out they went with it and declared him to be Old Man Rex on Endor. Its a nice nod to the past and works for me.

And if you won't watch Clone Wars you are missing out Perm. There are some great lists of highlight story arcs you could go through without having to trudge through the whole series, though if you like Star Wars I recommend watching it all in chronological order. It reshaped my impression of the prequel trilogy and gave us a lot of the things that the films were missing.

Now if only we could get Ahsoka in the live films somehow.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2019, 08:00:17 PM »
I don't really think a film series can operate well in the modern era with continuity with a tv series. If Star Wars had started out as a TV series then that would be different.

I also hate the art style. I never liked it. It's offputing. Some styles put you off of shows. It looks like if you got a bunch of Egyptian New Kingdom statues and marionetted them around. It hits my uncanny valley reflex hard.

I never had much of a problem with the prequel trilogy. I understand the criticism being someone who watches films all the time, but when they came out I enjoyed them for what they were. I wasn't sweeped up in the negativity. Sometimes negativity towards things is misplaced. Like Batman 66' there was a time when I watched an episode and was like "WTF were they thinking. How did I like this as a kid?" But once you know it is an elaborate spoof that criticism is stupid. It is actually great. You were right the first time.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #93 on: April 17, 2019, 12:23:11 AM »
It is all about context, nothing exist in isolation. People all too easily look only at the moment and ignore the context. With Batman 66 you misunderstood the context. You later on saw it in the context and time period it was meant to be viewed under.

As for the line "People to take care of", it's both the characters some who become role models and the audience, you know the customers. Customers who have been with you for decades, who have gone out and kept the fire burning.

The displeasure towards the prequels exist because they are bad movies following OT which is loved by millions. Star Wars was something parents would show their kids and share the joy. SW became an cultural institution. When the prequels didn't hit the mark it is rightly criticised. You might question the extent but when that valid constructive criticism gets dismissed and thrown back at you that changes everything. This allowed NuSW to do what PT didn't, kill SW. GL might have a lazy idiot but he is a (mostly)good business man, He took the hits, give small friendly ribbing in the right context, didn't insult the fans outside of the movie.

Nintendo is the same, we have supported it thick and thin because they kept making games we liked at a high standard of quality. That isn't entitlement, it's good business. We have criticised Nintendo in the past but they have never thrown it back into our face, they didn't engage in twitter wars, openly insult people. The relationship has remained cordial. We got the likes of Kaplan, 'My body is ready' Reggie, Nintendo direct, Nintendo Power, this very site. We like the SW fans have recommended games, played them with our loved ones. While maybe not the level of passion that SW has, it's the same thing.

Marvel is nearing 2 decades now? There are kids who have grown up with this and no doubt enthused fans. There are forum threads dedicated to Marvel movies and users that without fail post new material, trailers etc. Now imagine TLJ scenario happening to Endgame. How many of you would stop watching new Marvel movies or buying their products or stop posting marketing materials or become indifferent or get angry?

You got the smallest taste of that when they fired Gunn. The fan outcry of support for Gunn, the actors revolting. The first cracks. You started asking questions, wondering what is going on. Don't go thinking you're immune to the emotions(Our robot friends excluded) or believe yourself superior to those who criticise what is going on.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2019, 12:38:36 AM »
Marvel is a weird bag. Especially the Avengers series. Can you think of a series where the third one is totally awesome?
Age of Ultron was content packed, but I didn't like it as much as the first. Part 3 satisfied a dark sick spot. I love it when the villains win. Ever since Lord Zedd destroyed the mega zords and wrecked the command center I've been real up for the idea of a villain win.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2019, 12:44:42 AM »
Die Hard 3. Definitely better than 2 but not 1 so ehh? Star Trek 6: Undiscovered country, 2 edges it out but eh?
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2019, 12:57:21 AM »
Die Hard with a Vengeance for sure.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #97 on: April 17, 2019, 01:35:16 AM »
Zeus and John was truly a perfect pairing of oil and water with an emulsifier added at just the right time. You could not make that movie today as some people don't give a damn about context.


Great follow up jokes later.

Also add bombing NYC.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #98 on: April 17, 2019, 02:14:37 AM »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2019, 02:38:29 AM »
I didn't know why I didn't post that days ago. Must have had a stroke laughing too much.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 02:58:25 AM by oohhboy »
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