Famitsu reports that one of the games, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, will be getting more than just a control update. Nintendo will be changing the gimmicks found in each stage, repositioning enemies, and adding mid-level check points. On top of this, those who played the GameCube original can look forward to completely new stages.
As for the control changes, Nintendo appears to be converting Jungle Beat into a more traditional platformer. The original had a unique control system that made use of the GameCube's bongo controllers. For the Wii version, you control Donkey Kong with the analogue pad on the nunchuck, and make him jump with the A button. The game does use motion controls for a few moves, including punching at enemies and performing continuous jumps.
For the Play it on Wii Selection version of Pikmin, Famitsu makes no mention of additional content aside from the new control scheme. To control the game now, you, as expected, point directly at your Pikmin using the Wiimote. You can point at locations on the screen and press A to toss Pikmin around. Or, you can press B to call out to the Pikmin.
Hmmm I wonder if Nintendo will decide to upgrade any of the gamecube -> Wiimakes like this. At least we now know that DK Jungle Beat is not much of a "waggle" fest anymore. The Pikmin controls on Wii will probably a good example of what we can expect for Pikmin 3.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Caliban on November 12, 2008, 09:58:54 AM
I'm sticking with the original Jungle Beat and the bongo controller.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 12, 2008, 11:05:10 AM
DKJB is NOTHING without the bongos.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: LuigiHann on November 12, 2008, 11:40:22 AM
I'm just glad they didn't attempt to "emulate" the bongos using the motion controls. That would be a disaster.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 12, 2008, 11:43:41 AM
I'm just glad they didn't attempt to "emulate" the bongos using the motion controls. That would be a disaster.
They did in that stupid Donkey Kong racing game that no one cared about.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Stogi on November 12, 2008, 11:44:47 AM
It would've been fine. Let's Tap proves that.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 12, 2008, 12:13:56 PM
Interesting...I might buy it now that they've completely mixed it up...
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 12, 2008, 12:54:07 PM
I might buy it. I wanted to like the original, but I couldn't get into it because of the mushy bongos. I liked the idea of controlling the game with bongos, but I couldn't stand the actual controller. It felt more like hitting a deflated balloon than a real drum. While I'd rather play the game as it was meant to be played with something more like a real set of bongos, I'd be willing to settle for this if the price is right.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 12, 2008, 01:07:08 PM
My hands burned like fiery fury every time I played that game, and god did I love it.
DK:JB loses its soul when it loses the bongos.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: KDR_11k on November 12, 2008, 02:35:02 PM
I'm just glad they didn't attempt to "emulate" the bongos using the motion controls. That would be a disaster.
They did in that stupid Donkey Kong racing game that no one cared about.
Probably the reason they aren't doing it in JBWii.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 12, 2008, 02:51:57 PM
I am actually more interested in this game with this information. I like the concept of giving it completely new controls...and, I believe they can still use motion control on the essential elements to keep the games heart.
I liked this game and I missed it...I do remember reviewers were complaining it had too few levels in the game. If they add 3-5 levels it will definitely be worth a purchase.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Stogi on November 12, 2008, 02:56:45 PM
How much is this?
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 12, 2008, 04:29:36 PM
I believe around 40 USD. Play-asia is selling the Japanese version for 39.90 (http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-z3-77-d-49-en-15-donkey+kong-70-33g1.html)
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Mario on November 12, 2008, 04:46:51 PM
Or Donkey Kong Jungle Beat +, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat 1.5
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: IceCold on November 12, 2008, 06:00:20 PM
I don't like that they're just modifying it. Why not a whole new game?
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 12, 2008, 06:26:55 PM
woooooow. I like this. They're making it a game that more than seven people can get into, and yet there's still hate. I love the original. This is a good idea. they're not going to release the bongos again so change it up to make it work like a real platformer. The level design is almost there, just needs some tweaking to work with controllers instead of drums. Should be a fine game. More levels are great too.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 12, 2008, 07:19:42 PM
I don't like that they're just modifying it. Why not a whole new game?
Because Nintendo's intention is that these games didn't get enough exposure first time around because the cube wasn't as popular as Wii is, so they are giving these awesome games a second life, it worked for Capcom and countless companies including Nintendo themselves with the SNES to GBA remakes.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: UncleBob on November 12, 2008, 07:46:27 PM
I asked this before, now with new levels, I really want to know...
...will we have the option to use Bongos for the "original" control scheme? Pretty please, Nintendo?
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 12, 2008, 08:35:36 PM
I don't like that they're just modifying it. Why not a whole new game?
Because a new game would take up a lot more time and money. Not to mention EAD Tokyo is probably very busy on whatever their new project is right now, and doesn't have time to create a full fledged sequel.
This Wii version of Jungle Beat is more then likely being handled by EAD 4, since they seem to be the Mario port team. They did all the Mario Advanced ports as well as the Mario 64 DS remake. Since Jungle Beat was made by the old Mario team, it only makes since that EAD 4 would get to do another one of their games. Not to mention the last Wii game EAD 4 released was Big Brain Academy in early 2007, so it'd make since if this ends up being what they've been working on for the last year as well as the other Gamecube ports.
The way things are looking right now, I'm expecting Jungle Beat Wii to end up like Mario 64 DS. Where the end result is still great and the new content justifies a purchase, but the new controls just can't match the greatness of the original ones.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Dasmos on November 12, 2008, 09:27:36 PM
Arg, it's going to be impossible for me to boycott this now.
Though with checkpoints added and the moving of the enemies, it seems they're trying to bring the focus away from combo's, which would be a big mistake. The best levels are the ones where you can combo the whole level (if you're good enough) and I hope these changes don't mess with that dynamic too much.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 12, 2008, 11:03:15 PM
I asked this before, now with new levels, I really want to know...
...will we have the option to use Bongos for the "original" control scheme? Pretty please, Nintendo?
I highly doubt it because Nintendo objected a bongo mode for platchen on Wiiware. I think Nintendo wants those obsolete.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Adrock on November 12, 2008, 11:39:34 PM
The reasons why they're releasing this rehashed nonsense and not a sequel are quite obvious. The point is that they should make a sequel. Time, money, giving the game a second chance....whatever. A sequel is new. It's not my fault people passed this up the first time. And new content or not, without the bongos, the Wii version completely misses the whole point of the game. Jungle Beat is a game played with bongos, end of story.... and this is coming from someone who wasn't even that crazy about the game.
I just don't see how people complain about all the ports on the Wii but can get excited when Nintendo does it. I guess if you missed the game the first time around but then again, you can buy a Gamecube, JB, and a bongo controller for roughly 17 cents now so go to Gamestop pick it up and stop supporting laziness.
Also, $40?! F that.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: UncleBob on November 12, 2008, 11:46:43 PM
I don't like that they're just modifying it. Why not a whole new game?
Because Nintendo's intention is that these games didn't get enough exposure first time around because the cube wasn't as popular as Wii is, so they are giving these awesome games a second life, it worked for Capcom and countless companies including Nintendo themselves with the SNES to GBA remakes.
I understand that, but as it stands these new gamers will be getting a watered down version of the game which provided the most pure fun for me last generation. I don't like the in-between ground - either make a whole new Jungle Beat game specifically for Wii, or if you're not changing it much, keep the gameplay experience as close as possible to before. Of course, it's impossible without the drums, so I'd much rather them go for a brand new experience. Ah well, I don't have to buy it.. the new levels are tempting me though.
Anyway, this is all moot because as Luigi Dude said Tokyo EAD is probably working on a new game (hopefully Pikmin 3!)
EDIT: Just read about the checkpoints.. ugh. One of the best parts of Jungle Beat is its fluidity and the way you can string combos together. I can't see it any other way.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Mario on November 13, 2008, 01:53:07 AM
woooooow. I like this. They're making it a game that more than seven people can get into, and yet there's still hate. I love the original. This is a good idea. they're not going to release the bongos again so change it up to make it work like a real platformer. The level design is almost there, just needs some tweaking to work with controllers instead of drums. Should be a fine game. More levels are great too.
The thing is they might be changing it to something that really wont be as special. Running through the game with checkpoints where people think the main goal is to avoid the baddies would be pretty boring. So people who missed it the first time will be like "is that it?". It's about how the game is presented to the new players, the fears I and possibly others have is that the "new players" this game will be aimed at are complete morons.
Also Nintendo rejecting the bongos is heartbreaking... :(
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 13, 2008, 06:48:42 AM
If they do it right then it won't be an issue. Without the bongos the combo thing goes away cause it isn't as hard anymore. so you have to change the level designs and enemy placement to work more with a controller. I personally have a lot of hope for this port. Y'all should chill out a bit and wait for some concrete information and perhaps, just perhaps, wait until you can play it yourself before you freak out and condemn this as a total failure.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Ian Sane on November 13, 2008, 01:32:44 PM
The funny thing is that this actually makes me MORE interested in the game. I didn't buy Jungle Beat because I was really turned off by the bongo controls. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance? But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid. It had the same problem that I have with waggle. The controls seemed designed not to be practical but to attract attention. I didn't find using the bongos fun, I found it annoying.
Still why are they putting this much effort into a remake of a game that is only a few years old? And they're not even using the unique capabilities of the remote. This is what I complained about when the Wii-makes were announced. They're putting the kind of effort into these that could easily be applied to new games. Hell it doesn't even have to be a new IP. Make a new Donkey Kong game!
And it looks like this isn't to make use of the Wii's unique features but rather to resell Cube games to an audience that didn't buy them the first time. They essentially did that with Mario Strikers and Super Sluggers and now they're doing it here. Nintendo probably sees those Cube games as a waste. It's another demonstration of exactly who Nintendo's true focus is on.
Though Nintendo may have thought they could remake Jungle Beat using the same controller scheme DK Barrel Blast had but then changed their mind when everyone justifiably sh!t all over it. It might be use traditional controls or abandon the project outright.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 13, 2008, 01:35:40 PM
"Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance? But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid."
Gotta play it sitting down, in your own environment. It's a type of adrenaline-rythm game masked by the guise of platforming goals.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Mario on November 13, 2008, 05:39:39 PM
Mario Strikers made use of one amazing Wii feature and that's WiFi. =D
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Adrock on November 13, 2008, 05:48:16 PM
The funny thing is that this actually makes me MORE interested in the game. I didn't buy Jungle Beat because I was really turned off by the bongo controls. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance? But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid. It had the same problem that I have with waggle. The controls seemed designed not to be practical but to attract attention. I didn't find using the bongos fun, I found it annoying
Ugh, Jungle Beat would have been completely awful without the bongos. That was the whole point of the game. Sans bongos makes the game entirely useless. If I wanted a boring and crap Donkey Kong game, I'd just track down DK64 on ebay.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Mario on November 13, 2008, 06:11:30 PM
I'd play Donkey Kong Country
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 13, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
I'd play Mario VS Donkey Kong...
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Ian Sane on November 13, 2008, 06:13:07 PM
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If I wanted a boring and crap Donkey Kong game, I'd just track down DK64 on ebay.
I actually *ducks* kind of like Donkey Kong 64. It's a fun platformer that's just hurt by:
1. The DK Rap 2. Candy Kong getting into furrie porn territory 3. Overambitious game design. Rare just made it too big. Too much collecting, too many mini-games, too many playable characters. When there's so much to do it makes you feel like you have to do everything and then all that stuff becomes like a chore. But if you just want to beat it instead of a 100% it it's quite good. Not really 88% on Gamerankings good but definitely not a bad game.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Deguello on November 13, 2008, 06:19:33 PM
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But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid. It had the same problem that I have with waggle. The controls seemed designed not to be practical but to attract attention.
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And it looks like this isn't to make use of the Wii's unique features
Implying two different opinions at the same time. If it isn't using "waggle," shouldn't you be happier?
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They essentially did that with Mario Strikers and Super Sluggers and now they're doing it here. Nintendo probably sees those Cube games as a waste. It's another demonstration of exactly who Nintendo's true focus is on.
Groan. Not this again. Stop complaining about who Nintendo "focuses" on because they are focusing on exactly who you said they should focus on 3 years ago. When every post is an irrational Anti-Nintendo editorial like this, and terrible ones at that, it's easy to just wash over your opinion, so you aren't convincing anybody.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Adrock on November 13, 2008, 06:44:21 PM
3. Overambitious game design. Rare just made it too big. Too much collecting, too many mini-games, too many playable characters. When there's so much to do it makes you feel like you have to do everything and then all that stuff becomes like a chore. But if you just want to beat it instead of a 100% it it's quite good. Not really 88% on Gamerankings good but definitely not a bad game.
Gah, those flaws are exactly what makes it a bad game. You basically just said, "DK64 was a good game......... except for all the parts that sucked which was almost every part of the game."
/thread derailed
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Dasmos on November 13, 2008, 08:50:17 PM
If they do it right then it won't be an issue. Without the bongos the combo thing goes away cause it isn't as hard anymore. so you have to change the level designs and enemy placement to work more with a controller. I personally have a lot of hope for this port. Y'all should chill out a bit and wait for some concrete information and perhaps, just perhaps, wait until you can play it yourself before you freak out and condemn this as a total failure.
Jungle Beat was perfection, basically announcing this game was coming to Wii with new controls made it a failure in comparison in my mind. Now to hear that they're mixing it up, adding new things, taking things out makes me worry even more. It's not going to be the same Jungle Beat that's for sure, all I can hope that it stands as a decent game despite being so far from the "true" Jungle Beat.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: IceCold on November 14, 2008, 02:54:13 AM
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The funny thing is that this actually makes me MORE interested in the game. I didn't buy Jungle Beat because I was really turned off by the bongo controls. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance? But I played it in store demos and the whole thing felt unnatural to me and, well, stupid.
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I actually *ducks* kind of like Donkey Kong 64. It's a fun platformer
Note to self: Continue to be extremely wary of Ian's taste in games.
Jungle Beat is easily the best Donkey Kong game ever. It's innovation with an awesome nostalgic feeling, combined to form pure bliss.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Mario on November 14, 2008, 02:55:31 AM
If they want to take advantage of the Wii they should include WiFi scoreboards
Does Nintendo know how to do that?
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 14, 2008, 06:23:33 AM
wow. ok.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: UncleBob on November 14, 2008, 09:27:58 AM
Jungle Beat is easily the best Donkey Kong game ever. It's innovation with an awesome nostalgic feeling, combined to form pure bliss.
Disagree - Donkey Kong '94. :)
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 14, 2008, 10:36:54 AM
haha, I like DK64 too
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
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Stop complaining about who Nintendo "focuses" on because they are focusing on exactly who you said they should focus on 3 years ago.
It sure is easy to crap on someone's opinion when you make it up for them. I never said they should focus on non-gamers. I always felt Nintendo should target a wider audience by providing more variety. But that's not the same thing. They had that whole k!ddy image problem so having a few more games that teenage males wouldn't feel embarassed to play would be good. Covering all the genre gaps. No FPS games on a Nintendo console? Then f*cking make one and get the ball rolling. Cut back on franchise spinoffs and dedicate those resources to making new IPs and that aren't the same cutesy style that Pokemon, Mario and Kirby already provide.
If anything I was suggesting Nintendo be the hardcore gamer's console of choice since they had the talent to pull it off but due to a lack of variety and stubborn inflexibility they scared hardcore gamers away. Nintendo was their own worst enemy and if they just stopped shooting themselves in the foot they could make a big comeback.
However some people felt my suggestion was too focused on casual gamers (a term that at the time meant people who buy Madden or just Playstation users in general - not non-gamers) or it would compromise who Nintendo was. I maintained that Nintendo was defined by the quality and originality of their games. All the crappy stuff about Nintendo like how they think "for everyone" means "for little kids" or their poor relations with third parties or their stubborn refusal to adopt good ideas they didn't think of first were not a part of Nintendo's identity. Or at the very least no Nintendo fan liked them for their faults so changing those would not compromise Nintendo. Keep the good, lose the bad. The results would actually not be a change most Nintendo fans would really notice. Nintendo has made non-cutesy games for example like Metroid, Perfect Dark, Fire Emblem and most versions of Zelda and they were all Nintendo classics. Make a console that doesn't have a bunch of stupid obvious faults that give people excuses to ignore it, balance out the first party lineup better so it doesn't come across as being predominantly for kids or just being Nintendo franchise sequels and you're set. Make people identify Nintendo with quality and originality instead of k!ddie games, endless sequels and inflexible hardware missing industry standard features.
Nowhere is focusing on the mainstream at the expense of Nintendo fans or dumbing down games in there. Nintendo actually did the very thing people were scared I was suggesting: they compromised who they were to attract a wider audience. And ironically I'm one of the few that cares. This seems to be a good thing for some reason. The funny thing is the audience I suggested Nintendo try to appeal more to is who they now appeal to the least. They did exactly what I didn't want them to do.
Should I mention that DK64 is my least favourite of Nintendo's and Rare's N64 platformers? It isn't like my favourite game or anything it's just not so terrible to be considered crap. It's worth getting for cheap if you dug Banjo-Kazooie and want more of that style of gameplay.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: KDR_11k on November 14, 2008, 03:33:10 PM
Tough choice: Last place and pleased fans vs first place and alienated fans...
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: RABicle on November 14, 2008, 04:51:24 PM
As a veteren of the Battle of Storm Hill, I'm not sure I like the way that motion controls will pretty much be left for beatdowns and nothing else. I'll just play my original copy with my bongos instead. I really hope they include bongo support anyway, just so when I rock up at a friends house (I carry the bongos with me wherever I go) I can show them how you're meant to beat off.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2008, 05:53:08 PM
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Tough choice: Last place and pleased fans vs first place and alienated fans...
I don't think this was the only path to first place. At the very least I think second place and pleased fans was a realistic goal, especially since the PS3 was such a damn joke for the longest time. I'm quite certain they would have been better off than they were with the Cube. I don't think they would have regained first place so quickly but they would have been considered serious contenders for the future. Nintendo never entered the race without tying their shoelaces together first. There's no evidence that that couldn't have competed in a level playing field. You're pretty much assuming that someone who never did any training and tied their hands behind their back before every fight is a lousy boxer. Well they don't HAVE to be.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: KDR_11k on November 15, 2008, 02:07:59 AM
No, Nintendo was on a massive downward slide and pleasing the fans would in part have required to go the HD route like MS and Sony. That's a massive money sink and Nintendo has the smallest money stash out of the three and would go bankrupt first. This whole "console war" was an arms race about trying to push the graphics more and more. The problem with the HD generation was that normally priced consoles wouldn't be enough of a step up on the previous generation so they had to push so hard the price went up. Not just hardware prices, game development is growing too expensive. EA had massive losses (their stock fell over 50% within a few months!) despite increased sales and revenue simply because their costs were too high.
Nintendo was simply failing against MS and Sony and no matter how much you say they were holding back it's not likely that they would have done better after going next gen. Even if the PS3 was a joke it still had a lot of developer inertia and if Nintendo hadn't driven a spear into its ribs the PS3 might really have come from behind simply because developers didn't care enough to switch to a better platform.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Dasmos on November 15, 2008, 05:30:29 AM
If they want to take advantage of the Wii they should include WiFi scoreboards
Does Nintendo know how to do that?
**** that would be awesome.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Deguello on November 15, 2008, 06:31:23 AM
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It sure is easy to crap on someone's opinion when you make it up for them. I never said they should focus on non-gamers.
Yes you did. You said Nintendo should make more "mainstream games" which basically meant you wish they were more popular. Now they are more popular, because...
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I always felt Nintendo should target a wider audience by providing more variety.
Which they have, and you rail against members of this new audience. This argument is a loser, please try again.
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No FPS games on a Nintendo console? Then f*cking make one and get the ball rolling.
Uhm... they have. Three, in fact. They even bought Retro just for this purpose and published Geist on the GC. The ball isn't rolling, because (according to some) third parties don't want to compete against Nintendo in a genre they have a game in. (Although they have no problem making half-assed copies of Wii Sports and Wii Fit and such.) So here's a no-win situation. If Nintendo DOES make a game in a certain genre, third parties get scared off at the prospect of competing against Wii Fit and Wii Music (heh.) If Nintendo DOESN'T make in a certain genre, third parties assume there is no market for such and continue to shovel crap onto it. This kind of circular reasoning was pretty damning to Nintendo until they seized the market through their own efforts and by their own hand. Now third parties look like stubborn, stupid, idiots. And it's win-win for Nintendo. If Third parties do jump on board Nintendo's selling-faster-than-PS2 console, great, Nintendo gets stronger. IF they don't, Nintendo gets even stronger because they will get most of the industry's money to themselves.
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Nowhere is focusing on the mainstream at the expense of Nintendo fans or dumbing down games in there.
Prove where they did that. Mario Galaxy has in one year, outsold Mario Sunshine's 6 year run. Super Smash Brothers Brawl has, in half a year, sold exactly the same as Melee's 7 year run. Even Metroid Prime 3, much maligned for it's supposedly poor sales, has done much better than Metroid Prime 2. Hell even Fire Emblem, one of Nintendo's b-list series, has increased sales on the Wii and is even the 2nd highest selling "RPG" to come out of Japan this gen (this first being Dragon Quest: Swords. another Wii game) If anything Nintendo has MORE fans this time around.
In fact, I'll ask you a question. Do you think Mario Kart Wii "scared off" hardcore fans? Let's say, what.. 1 million hardcores get "fed up" with the Wii Wheel and said "ZOMG TEH GAME HAS BEEN CASUALIZED" That would make the remaining fanbase from MArio Kart: Double Dash approx. 6 million. So you must also think that Mario Kart Wii somehow magically attracted 4 million new people (and counting). If you honestly believe that, then... well... I dunno. That's pretty amazing.
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Nintendo actually did the very thing people were scared I was suggesting: they compromised who they were to attract a wider audience.
Which "Nintendo" would that be? The failing let's-please-hardcores-that-hate-us GC Nintendo? The who-cares-about-Japan N64 Nintendo? Nintendo has done enough slight changes in the generational transitions to be considered "compromises" to "who they are." If anything the Wii harkens back to NES days, and a lot of people are thrilled. Yet they've also mostly kept the same amount of games and the same type of games they usually make, while also making exactly SIX games thjat could be considered "non-games" on the Wii. Nintendo still has, and still will make a majority of hardcore games, no matter what easy stories the "ZOMG Casual" are to write.
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This seems to be a good thing for some reason.
Do you know why I applaud Wii Play's meteoric rise? Why I high five my Nintendo fan buds when Wii Fit stormed the charts? Why I grin with glee that Nintendogs is the highest selling game this entire generation? Why I get giddy when I think that each Brain Age game has outsold GTA III?
Because that's more money for Nintendo, and more money for Nintendo is more hardcore games and better, more ground-breaking technology in the future. Do you think Nintendo could possibly put all that profit back into sequels to all these so-called "casual" or "non-games?" They could double the budget for ea- They could tr- They could QUADRUPLE the development budget for a sequel to each an every one of these games, and still have hundreds of millions, if not a whole billions of dollars just laying around, waiting for a desperate third party, or a new idea from one of their new talents, or simply just spreading the money around evenly through out their studios.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 15, 2008, 06:40:58 AM
I surf this ocean. And it is blue.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 15, 2008, 07:25:21 AM
NEW LEVELS?! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D DOUBLE DIPPING FOR SURE.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 15, 2008, 04:59:12 PM
Because that's more money for Nintendo, and more money for Nintendo is more hardcore games and better, more ground-breaking technology in the future. Do you think Nintendo could possibly put all that profit back into sequels to all these so-called "casual" or "non-games?" They could double the budget for ea- They could tr- They could QUADRUPLE the development budget for a sequel to each an every one of these games, and still have hundreds of millions, if not a whole billions of dollars just laying around, waiting for a desperate third party, or a new idea from one of their new talents, or simply just spreading the money around evenly through out their studios.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
Seriously...It's probably the only reason why we are getting new editions of Punch-Out, Sin & Punishment, and Another Code...Look forward to more niche projects thanks to their casual software...
I'd agree if people actually BOUGHT it the first time... =(
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: KDR_11k on November 16, 2008, 01:59:45 AM
Well, some definitions of the new market include Punch-Out and Another Code. Might include Treasure's games if T didn't always make insanely overcomplicated controls where you have like 4 different buttons to shoot with slightly different aiming behaviours.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Ian Sane on November 17, 2008, 01:40:52 PM
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Do you know why I applaud Wii Play's meteoric rise? Why I high five my Nintendo fan buds when Wii Fit stormed the charts? Why I grin with glee that Nintendogs is the highest selling game this entire generation? Why I get giddy when I think that each Brain Age game has outsold GTA III?
Because that's more money for Nintendo, and more money for Nintendo is more hardcore games and better, more ground-breaking technology in the future. Do you think Nintendo could possibly put all that profit back into sequels to all these so-called "casual" or "non-games?" They could double the budget for ea- They could tr- They could QUADRUPLE the development budget for a sequel to each an every one of these games, and still have hundreds of millions, if not a whole billions of dollars just laying around, waiting for a desperate third party, or a new idea from one of their new talents, or simply just spreading the money around evenly through out their studios.
You applaud Nintendo's success because you are a fan of Nintendo's name. Whatever Nintendo says you are to like you like and what they say you don't like you don't like. If they had done what I wanted them to do you would support it, even if wasn't successful because they did it. More money to make more games means squat when their game design philosophy has changed. So they have more money to make more sequels and more non-games. So what?
I didn't ask for what they've done. I feel they've compromised who they are for mainstream success. I never asked for that. I always maintained that that was the one important thing that they must never do. But you keep ignoring that. I'm tired of arguing with you because you just decide to interpret what I said to whatever you want it to be. I say "I think Nintendo should provide more variety to attract a wider audience but without compromising the quality of their games." And then you take away the important qualifier and ignore it and decide that "wider audience" means non-gamers (which is a concept that didn't even exist when I suggested that anyway; who knows what I would have said if I thought of that idea) and then call me a hypocrite.
They compromised what made them great for mainstream success. Maybe you don't think they did but I sure do and that's what I never wanted them to do, and now they have. And I'm not happy about that which makes sense.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: KDR_11k on November 17, 2008, 03:34:37 PM
I feel you just misinterpreted what they were. They didn't compromise that, they just changed a few secondary parts. They have always made "games for everyone", they just found a way to make them actually for everyone and lost the kiddie image in the process (as opposed to going "mature" and moving from one niche to another). They also have always pumped out sequels en masse. You might say they made more new IPs in the past but I see Nintendo characters just as thin excuses for a player avatar. Nintendo heroes don't speak, they are the avatar of the player and the concept of a predesigned avatar was obsoleted when Miis were introduced. Thus there is no need for any new character-driven IP, they can instead make new "IPs" that use Miis as the player avatars and can put them into any situation without any backstory getting in the way.
Nintendo was moving into the direction of complexity and epicness and they realized they had to turn that around. I remember trying to show Wind Waker to a friend who came over, the damn game took forever to get through the intro. I've even read complaints of users that they quit playing Twilight Princess because after over an hour they were still running stupid tutorial tasks in the starting village. More and more games are becoming like that, wasting hours on their story buildup and not really letting the player actually play. Most of the stories really just suck, predictable garbage with forgettable characters. Yet they make you watch cutscenes and whatnot to tell their POS story. Even Metroid got infected with story and you know how that turned out. Story doesn't lend itself to sequence breaking. Nintendo is going back to the old days of gaming when you didn't need a story to have the player shoot blocky aliens or ducks or asteroids or whatever, when one stick and 1-2 buttons was enough, when a little game about hitting the ball with a paddle attracted huge crowds, when you didn't need hollywood-sized budgets to get graphics that are up to par.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 17, 2008, 04:34:31 PM
Alright guys, lets get this discussion back on track, no more talk completely and totally unrelated to DK JB Wii.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Tanookisuit on November 17, 2008, 05:27:06 PM
Um... playing this with the bongos was really fun and original. I'm not buying this version.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Deguello on November 18, 2008, 12:05:46 AM
I will acquiesce to the un-derailment order, but there's no way I can let that be the final word.
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You applaud Nintendo's success because you are a fan of Nintendo's name.
What the hell does this mean? I'm a Nintendo fan? Yeah boy you sure got me there. Aren't you happy when something you like is successful, or do you see the increased success as "too mainstream" for some reason and strive to be more obscure?
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Whatever Nintendo says you are to like you like and what they say you don't like you don't like. If they had done what I wanted them to do you would support it, even if wasn't successful because they did it.
Well that's just wrong. I don't like Wii Play that much. I don't like the fact that Disaster hasn't been localized yet. I know it's a rather complicated concept, but just because I'm a fan of something, doesn't mean I toe the line on every line they say. And we could play "If" games all day, but it proves nothing.
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More money to make more games means squat when their game design philosophy has changed.
If this is still the same Nintendo that made Super Mario Galaxy and Zelda:TP, and is financing Punch-Out, Sin and Punishment 2, and Disaster, then their "design philosophy" hasn't noticeably changed.
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So they have more money to make more sequels and more non-games. So what?
This is probably your most tired argument. This is more "Nintendo never makes new IP," right? Usually this ends up with somebody listing the egregiously high amounts of New IP launched since Nintendo's "new philosophy" took over including successful things like Wii Sports and Brain Age, to less successful but praised things like Elite Beat Agents and Custom Robo. To niche things like Trace Memory and Hotel Dusk. All new IPs driven by Nintendo. But you would then go down the list and say which ones "don't appeal to you" which sort of defeats the purpose of you wanting it in the first place because you have to be TOLD about new IP, which means you were never searching for it to begin with. It's seems your idea of "new IP" is Nintendo making cheap imitations of their own games with slightly different characters, which is akin to shying away from a new album by the Beatles and wishing The Beatles hired a cover band played their best hits instead. It's neurotic. No matter what they do they can never please your amorphous definition of "new IP."
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I didn't ask for what they've done. I feel they've compromised who they are for mainstream success. I never asked for that.
Yes, you did. This is one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments, because you got it in spades. You asked for them to make more games that appeal to the mainstream. They've done that, even with characters considered "too niche." Of course they did it in a way that 100% displeases you, but if it really displeases you, it makes me wonder whether you wanted the result to begin with.
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I'm tired of arguing with you because you just decide to interpret what I said to whatever you want it to be. I say "I think Nintendo should provide more variety to attract a wider audience but without compromising the quality of their games." And then you take away the important qualifier
What qualifier? I quoted that whole sentence. It's even still part of your post on the previous page. Or... did you mean a "wider audience that I approve of first?" Was that the qualifier you meant? Are you going to screen every young child and woman walking out of a Walmart with a Wii and ensure their "right-thinking" in the ways of video games?
They have provided more variety. So much that new gamers are coming in, because they are offering things nobody has offered for a long time.
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And then you take away the important qualifier and ignore it and decide that "wider audience" means non-gamers (which is a concept that didn't even exist when I suggested that anyway; who knows what I would have said if I thought of that idea) and then call me a hypocrite.
You know the Wii has a lot of regular gamers too. By any sane percentage of non-gamer to veteran gamer, the Wii has more "regular gamers" than the PS3 or 360 even has userbase. Same deal with the DS and the PSP. and I didn't call you a hypocrite, I just said you got what you wanted. Wii is successful in the mainstream again. They're #1. And they did it similar to your wants, by providing a wider variety of games rather than just Mario, Zelda, and Metroid (and it's so nice of them to still make those too. I thought they would have gone full bore casual now considering all the editorials saying so. But the reality is they've only made six or so "non-games," and the rest have been familiar faces and new attempts. Also, fans of Mario and Zelda count as part of the "wider audience" too.)
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They compromised what made them great for mainstream success.
I'm just not sure what you mean by "great" here. Successfull? high-rated games? This metric keeps changing and it's hard to keep up. Even when they've done BOTH at the same time, apparently success is negative and a high userbase is a weakness. I just don't understand what's being said here.
And these are my final words on the matter. Now we should return to talking about DKJB.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Urkel on November 18, 2008, 02:52:11 AM
So how about that Donkey Kong game?
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: KDR_11k on November 18, 2008, 08:17:55 AM
Dunno, I got the GC JB including bongos for 15€ last year or so. I don't think I'll be buying this version.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: EasyCure on November 18, 2008, 01:38:32 PM
Doubt i'll buy it either. I got it thanks to praise from guys like IceCold, after finding the bongos for $4, bought two of em and the game for dirt cheap :-D
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: blackfootsteps on November 18, 2008, 05:17:05 PM
It depends how many new levels there are I guess. It's not like there was anything wrong with the original that needed changing. I am however pleased that more people will get the chance to play it, it's just a pity that bongo control is not available as an option.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: vudu on May 06, 2009, 04:47:54 PM
Video Demo - Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (http://wiifolder.com/2009/01/video-demo-donkey-kong-jungle-beat/)
Here's a pretty great demo video of DKJB NPC from Wii Folder.
There aren't really any new levels, just a boss rush mode with the Kong bosses and you can now play through the final trophy stage.
However, it seems like it's a pretty good version of the game.
Personally, I won't be getting it because I didn't find the original that appealing (blasphemy, I know!). I found the combos broke up the pace of the game too much--I could never just jump up and grab three bananas; I had to back-flip, then wall jump and finally perform a ground pound before I could pick up some damn fruit. It just made the game too slow.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Mop it up on May 06, 2009, 06:16:17 PM
The game looks interesting, but I'm waiting for some reviews before I make my decision. If the game uses too much waggle (DK Barrel Blast) then it would just be annoying.
Has NWR gotten a review copy yet?
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 06, 2009, 06:42:01 PM
The game looks interesting, but I'm waiting for some reviews before I make my decision. If the game uses too much waggle (DK Barrel Blast) then it would just be annoying.
Has NWR gotten a review copy yet?
Yea, I'm on the case. I got it the other day and I've knocked out the first two barrels. I'll probably dig up my old copy of DK:JB to compare, but the game plays very differently and the levels appear to be "remixed" if they aren't completley new. There's new things like a life meter and lives, easier-to-access hint videos. Also, Donkey Kong wears crowns.
I think a lot of the somewhat forgivable complaints I had with the first one, which vudu basically pointed out, are going to come to the forefront with the more traditional controls. Still got more game to play though...
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: UncleBob on October 05, 2009, 12:37:11 AM
Is there a topic about this featuring everyone's game play impressions? I searched and this is what I came up with.
Anywhoo, I've been playing it today. Still a good game, but not the great game it was with the bongos. To be honest, it's "harder" - but not in a good way. I find myself shaking when I should be pressing A. Pressing Z when I mean to shake, etc... All this makes the controls a little more frustrating and harder to chain combos together. Still an awesome game, but I think the bongo'd version is superior.
Title: Re: DK: Jungle Beat (Wii) has new levels and now a traditional platformer
Post by: Dasmos on October 05, 2009, 10:24:34 AM
Bongo version is better by a mile, this one is almost unplayable in comparison.
