Topic: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?

[Deguello]

The interface is fine.  It will get tweaked and improved but I'd be surprised if they spent much time on it.  It's not really an important part of the system anyway.  If anything, it should be made as streamlined as possible so that getting to the game is quick and easy.  Maybe even have an option to bypass the Menu altogether like the DS has, so you only access the menu when you feel like it.

[Kytim89]

Technically the wii is a cartridge based console because if you are utilizing the SD card for storing virtual console and wiiware titles and playing those games off of that SD card, you are playing cartridge games.

[Deguello]

No it's disc-based because of that large disc drive that's in it.  Whether VC or WiiWare games use it is immaterial.

I'm actually worried that Nintendo may end up having to keep the disc drive for BC in the Wii successor.  And if they do, they should try as hard as they can to hide it off to the side like they did with the GC controller ports.  They wouldn't want their customers jamming the carts that will hopefully be the new medium into the Disc Drive, which will have a bigger presence on the front of the system.

[Mop it up]

I just hope the next system uses a hard drive, since it's more durable than flash memory.

[Deguello]

That's not true.  Solid State memory like flash and SSD type things are WAY more durable than regular Hard Drives.

That's why new laptops are starting to come with them exclusively.

[Mop it up]

Really? That hasn't been my experience. I've got plenty of old hard drives that still work fine, including one from a Windows 95 machine that still works just as well as the day I got it. Meanwhile, I know several people who have had their Wii memory become corrupted, and I've heard it's one of the two most common issues with the system (the other being disc drive failure). I've also seen USB flash drives get corrupted often and have to be formatted.

[Kytim89]

I just hope the next system uses a hard drive, since it's more durable than flash memory.

Nintendo will stick with flash memory until the holographic storage medium is cheap enough to utilize.

[Deguello]

Wait, what kind of "durability" do you mean?  Do you mean it being resistant to strikes and extreme temperatures?  Because Solid State wins that hands down.

Or do you mean long life?  Because Solid State actually did have a problem with that early on but now they've got some pretty long life spans.  Not AS long as regular hard drives, but more than long enough to be inside a game machine.

And if we're going by personal experience, I have a WD 1 TB Hard Drive right next to me that worked for precisely 3 days and then stopped working with no error messages or warning.

[Mop it up]

Yeah, I mean durability of use. It would seem hard drives last longer when used properly. With every product, some defective devices are going to get through; it'd be interesting to see some averages on that.

And if solid state lasts long enough for game machines, how come it's a relatively common issue with Wii?

[Kytim89]

Holograms will be a wow factor a future Nintendo system.

[Ian Sane]

I like cartridges and I would like it a lot if that became the industry standard again.  But I'm concerned that if Nintendo went with it while everyone else stuck with discs that it would negatively affect third party support.  Yeah this isn't the sort of cost difference the N64 had but there is a cost difference, no?  You can say that it's minor and that carts should be big enough but that sounds like a bunch of excuses.  And is that not a good way to sum up Nintendo for the last three gens?  Nintendo does things their own weird way and provides a buttload of excuses and third parties balk.  In this case the big advantage is load times but do most devs give a ****?  That's a big plus for gamers but devs have been willing to have load times in their games for 15 years now.  We saw how great Nintendo's own load times were on the Gamecube but most third parties didn't take advantage of that in their own games.  I don't think they care and if it came down to load times vs. a slight increase in cost they would stick with the load times.

I think to attract third party support Nintendo has to be as conventional as possible.  Doing things their own goofy ass way has never attracted squat.  If anything it just re-enforces the idea that Nintendo designs hardware entirely with themselves in mind.  I think the key is to match the competition's offering as close as possible and then offer something unique on top of that.  From a hardware perspective the Wii had no advantage over the PS3 or X360.  The motion control was never an advantage, it was a tradeoff.  It became motion control vs. HD hardware and the devs picked HD.

What Nintendo needs is something that is more of less what the competition has but with feature X.  I don't know what that is but the idea is that someone wants to use feature X then Nintendo gets that exclusive.  But the rest of the console is conventional enough that all of the non-exclusives are released on it as well.  Instead of offering apples to Sony's and Microsoft's oranges, Nintendo is offering apples AND oranges.
 
Regarding the hard drive vs. solid state debate I think it is simple.  Sony and MS offer WAY more space.  I consider quantity to be more important in this case.  Nintendo being Mr. Goofy with excuses about why smaller solid state is better in their mind is not going to accomplish anything.  That's the problem!

[Deguello]

But I'm concerned that if Nintendo went with it while everyone else stuck with discs that it would negatively affect third party support.

Didn't hurt DS.

Doing things their own goofy ass way has never attracted squat.

Ditto.  And the 3DS seems to be pretty goofy as well.  I mean glasses-less 3D?  Come on Nintendo, choose the conventional glasses model like everybody else!

In this case the big advantage is load times but do most devs give a ****?

I don't care what a bunch of corporate suits want (thought you wouldn't either but, oh well.)  I care what would serve customers and gamers better.

It became motion control vs. HD hardware and the devs picked HD.

And the customers picked motion control.  Just like they picked touchscreen.  This is why Nintendo's rich and most third parties are struggling.

Nintendo being Mr. Goofy with excuses about why smaller solid state is better in their mind is not going to accomplish anything.

But it is better for game consoles and gamers to have fast access speeds and more durable consoles as a result of no moving parts.  More storage space isn't going to mean much if you never get close to using it all, and if MS and Sony are going to offer such large storage space as a shooting off point for their Digital Distribution-only approaches, then it becomes a little less clear cut than "More Storage space wins."

[Ian Sane]

Ditto.  And the 3DS seems to be pretty goofy as well.  I mean glasses-less 3D?  Come on Nintendo, choose the conventional glasses model like everybody else!

Don't be cheeky.  The 3DS is a good example of my "same thing with feature X" suggestion.  It's like the DS only it has better specs and this cool new 3D feature.  Take away the 3D and it's still a DS 2, no tradeoff.  The DS is the same thing.  It's got all this new stuff but underneath it all it's a GBA with better specs.  This is the methodology that I think would work.  The Wii always had a "but..." excuse for the motion control.  The 3DS does not.  It's all you had in the DS plus with significantly beefed up specs and this cool new feature that you don't even have to use if you don't want to.
 

 I don't care what a bunch of corporate suits want (thought you wouldn't either but, oh well.)  I care what would serve customers and gamers better.

Third party support serves customers and gamers better than anything else.  All I give a damn about is if the best games are on the console I bought.  What corporate suits want matters when it comes down to them making the decision about which consoles to support.  Otherwise any "benefit" to me is all theoretical.
 
Nintendo has to play ball to some extent to get any decent third party support for their consoles.  Whatever strategy they have had for THREE generations has not worked at all.  They're the ONLY company ever to have a market leading console with the WORST third party support.  They've got to do something different.

[BeautifulShy]

Since when did this topic turn into a topic about 3rd party support? This is a topic about what you think the next Nintendo system will work like. What features and so on.

[Deguello]

It's got all this new stuff but underneath it all it's a GBA with better specs.

How is this different from the Wii?  It's still a GameCube with better specs right?  And you can't even use the comparison to 360 and PS3 because the DS itself had competition with the PSP and it was leagues ahead of the DS in terms of graphical power.

Third party support serves customers and gamers better than anything else.

I can give several examples as to why this can be untrue.  When a bunch of third parties didn't care about quality they flooded the market with cheap crap and caused that big video game crash in the early 80's.  Third parties pledged higher support for the PSP initially, but because the PSP had so many hardware design flaws (chief amongst them being a low battery due in part to a disc-based medium) their support meant little.  Hell, it was one of the big "pros" for the PSP, the assumption of it having higher third party support than some weird gimmicky touchscreen system that uses carts.  And if we can't learn any lessons from the highest selling video game system ever, well...

Maxi, it became about third party support the moment I suggested Nintendo uses some kind of cartridge or card-based system for the Wii2 to cut down moving parts, load times, and power use, banking on the idea that 8 and 16 GB cards will be cheap enough in bulk to house the majority of any game types and that game sizes won't ever need to go above 16GB.  It was basically inevitable from then.

[Kytim89]

I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.

[DAaaMan64]

I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.

I'd rather blow into my cartridges for 20 years then have my consoles break after 5.

[broodwars]

I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.

I'd rather blow into my cartridges for 20 years then have my consoles break after 5.

Yes, because CDs are the sole reason for that.      The more complicated a mechanical system becomes, the more likely that it will break.  That's just how it is.

[Mop it up]

You don't have to blow into cartridges if you store them in a safe place and keep them clean. Blowing into them may actually cause more damage in the long run.

[Deguello]

I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.

I'd rather blow into my cartridges for 20 years then have my consoles break after 5.

Yes, because CDs are the sole reason for that.      The more complicated a mechanical system becomes, the more likely that it will break.  That's just how it is.

Actually, yeah the CDs are the cause of it, because they require those complicated mechanical systems, because without them, they're coasters.

[broodwars]

I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.

I'd rather blow into my cartridges for 20 years then have my consoles break after 5.

Yes, because CDs are the sole reason for that.      The more complicated a mechanical system becomes, the more likely that it will break.  That's just how it is.

Actually, yeah the CDs are the cause of it, because they require those complicated mechanical systems, because without them, they're coasters.

There's also hard disc drives (and make no mistake: if Nintendo's manufacturing it, they'll use the cheapest options available and will go with HDDs) and fans that can (and do) break, assuming that Nintendo would use the HDD to install game data and download VC/WW-type games.  In fact, my PS3 right now is in for repair right now with a broken fan that caused it to overheat.

[broodwars]

You don't have to blow into cartridges if you store them in a safe place and keep them clean. Blowing into them may actually cause more damage in the long run.

Indeed.  I always kept my SNES/N64 games (and maybe even my NES games) in these clear/blue plastic keepcases.  Aside from the games I bought used from Blockbuster and whatnot, I never had a problem with dust or dirt on the cartridges themselves.  Now the consoles, on the other hand, did have to be periodically cleaned with ther proper cleaning chemicals and some Q-Tips.

[Ian Sane]

I only have to blow in carts for NES games and the NES is an exceptionally unreliable system because of the cart loading mechanism.  I have never had issues with the SNES or N64 except for the rare isolated incedent.  But I have had to deal with smudges and scratches on discs.  There are problems either way.
 

 I can give several examples as to why this can be untrue.  When a bunch of third parties didn't care about quality they flooded the market with cheap crap and caused that big video game crash in the early 80's.

Obviously I'm talking about GOOD third party support.  If Nintendo wants to truly satisfy their customers they should have as many of the best games on their console as possible.  The last time they had it on a console was with the SNES.
 

 How is this different from the Wii?  It's still a GameCube with better specs right?  And you can't even use the comparison to 360 and PS3 because the DS itself had competition with the PSP and it was leagues ahead of the DS in terms of graphical power.

Take away the touchscreen and two screens and mic and the DS is STILL a worthwhile successor to the GBA.  It was not comparible to the PSP but it was still a significant jump up from the GBA.  And the 3DS without the 3D stuff is still, on specs alone, a significant jump up from the DS.  Take away the motion control and the Wii would be an absolute rip-off joke of a successor to the Cube.  Without motion control they could never get away with it in a million years.  You pretty much can't even tell the difference.
 
Talking about third party support makes sense when talking about the next gen because we want Nintendo to improve on any shortcomings with their next console.  I think third party support is one of those shortcomings.  I think from Nintendo's comments about the 3DS that they want the casual market but don't like the idea of being regarded as the casual gamer company and that they want to maintain the core market as well.  To do that with the Wii 2 they could have to improve third party support.

[Kytim89]

Wii 2 wow factor = thid party success?
 
 

[broodwars]

Wii 2 wow factor = thid party success?

Not likely, but man I hope it turns out to be.  The problem I see is that the Wii hype machine and demand has already peaked and fallen.  We know 3rd parties didn't take the Wii seriously at launch and put out AAA software because they underestimated how well the Wii would sell, using GameCube sales as their basis of comparison.  By the time 3rd parties started taking the Wii more seriously, no one was buying their software.  Now we're in the period where once again 3rd parties don't have faith that the Wii is a viable platform for major titles.  It'll be interesting to see if history repeats itself and we see 3rd parties using weak 3rd party Wii software sales as the basis for not taking the Wii 2 seriously, especially if the PS3 continues to gain traction and Kinect takes off for Microsoft.