Topic: I do want the Wii U to fail

[Kairon]

I generally agree with the sentiment that Nintendo as a company is still centered around the same values and thinking they had back in the 80's. Back then they said they were a company for gamers aged 2 to 92, and Reggie is still saying that same thing today.

We can have our opinions about how well we liked individual games (I love Wii Music, I hate Twilight Princess), but I'm skeptical of any perspective that doesn't see how, despite their personal gaming tastes, games like Brain Age are actually Nintendo continuing to make games for the people they've always been trying to make games for.

[Stogi]

This whole thread....er this whole argument could really be put to rest if Nintendo were to make a new IP garnered toward the troubled Nintendo fan.


I think the majority of the angst and almost hatred toward this "new" Nintendo is the fact that there hasn't been a game marketed towards them completely. But the irony there is if Nintendo were to comply, they wouldn't be Nintendo anymore. They would become "new" Nintendo.

[BeautifulShy]

Just going to put my thoughts out here real quick.

Wasn't this thread over in the fun house? I know the first 3 posts were in over there and yesterday morning I see it moved over here to the Nintendo console section to be put on display for everyone. As much as I don't have much of a opinion on Chozo at the moment I think the mod should should have just left it alone and be neutral. This is kinda abusing his power to make a point. It probably should have been left to PMs to be quite frank.

@Insanolord About that editorial its been done before and it doesn't change minds because most people are going to be set in their line of thinking to think beyond those ways.

@Oblivion,PixelatedPixies I think that's the most logical thing I read in this thread.

[Chozo Ghost]

Wasn't this thread over in the fun house? I know the first 3 posts were in over there and yesterday morning I see it moved over here to the Nintendo console section to be put on display for everyone.

Much like my title. Now do you see my point? Someone is doing everything they can to try to make me look like a troll. Its a conspiracy. And you were the one who said I should be reported or whatever. Now do you see the truth about this whole situation? I was only stating an opinion. It didn't have to be dissected and blown out of proportion like it was.

[MrPhishfood]

You say opinion but you also try to state a lot of false information as fact and if its not false you skew your words so that "maybe" becomes "not" and "grey" becomes "black" etc.

I don't think anyone takes issue with you having an opinion. Its when you try to state facts to backup your opinions, your choice of words are almost always 1 or 2 degrees more negative than they should be as if you don't feel your opinions are justified enough. Then only when you are called up on it do you admit to using the wrong choice of words.

I don't see why you would do this unless you were being emotional about your opinion. In any case what you do doesn't have a place in intelligent discussion. If you start adding your own flavour to the truth then of course people are going to call you out on it and get mad.


@Pixelated Pixies
What is your ideal of a games console controller?

[BeautifulShy]

Wasn't this thread over in the fun house? I know the first 3 posts were in over there and yesterday morning I see it moved over here to the Nintendo console section to be put on display for everyone.

Much like my title. Now do you see my point? Someone is doing everything they can to try to make me look like a troll. Its a conspiracy. And you were the one who said I should be reported or whatever. Now do you see the truth about this whole situation? I was only stating an opinion. It didn't have to be dissected and blown out of proportion like it was.

I said that because you were being disruptive in most of the threads you were in with your posts. Also please don't try to be a victim here. Both you and the mods are at fault and I think the best thing to do at this point is to just drop this. Chozo there is ways of putting your dislike for a company without being so entititled and negative about it. There is a happy medium.

Also mods can we get this thread locked?

[Pixelated Pixies]

Now, the difference might be you created a thread specifically to wish ill-will on a company many people support...and although your reasons are valid reasons for you not to support Nintendo...they are not valid reasons to create a thread or even to actively hope a company fails. 

I didn't create this thread.
 
Neither was I invalidating over peoples opinions. Again, if you look at my previous posts in this thread you'll see that many of them concede ground on certain points and many of them have me saying 'I agree'.
 
With regards being dramatic, lol, perhaps that post doesn't read as it was intended because there was nothing dramtic about it. I was just pointing out that some people who are defensive about the Wii U tend to make it more personal than perhaps I'm comfortable with. It's not a big deal, just thought it was worth highlighting.

[Adrock]

Microsoft and Sony are probably gearing up to go all out with their consoles, just like they did last gen with their behemoths.

Maybe that happens and maybe that blows up in their face. Maybe. We just don't know. It wasn't all roses for Sony and Microsoft this generation. Additionally, Sony recently admitted that the Vita has been a "hard sell" to 3rd parties. Is that a sign of things to come? What happens if Sony and Microsoft overextend on hardware and 3rd parties don't want to support them? There are a lot of variables here, many you're not considering.

Some of your concerns are valid albeit grossly overstated and one-sided. Just as Nintendo's strategy worked but didn't work, so have Sony's and Microsoft's. They were on opposite ends of the spectrum, succeeding and failing in different ways. "The man who chases 2 rabbits catches neither." Is that the proverb you were referring to? Point taken and partially agreed upon, but I don't think Nintendo have a choice. They have to go after both or risk leaving money on the table. It's a delicate balance for sure. However, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft should all be subject to the same concerns (minus the sensationalist doom card, of course).

And while I enjoy the discussion (to a point), I agree that it is approaching pointlessness (if it hasn't arrived there already), considering we don't know where Sony and Microsoft stand in all this. We all have opinions on whether what Nintendo is doing is good or bad, but there's nothing to compare it to. Many of us are taking the middle ground in all this due to the sheer number of unknowns, of which I'm specifically referring to all the nothing we have on Sony's and Microsoft's next machines.

With regards being dramatic, lol, perhaps that post doesn't read as it was intended because there was nothing dramtic about it.

Really?

I do, however, regret even speaking up in the first place. Perhaps the lurkers are on to something.

Could have fooled me.

[Spak-Spang]

Now, the difference might be you created a thread specifically to wish ill-will on a company many people support...and although your reasons are valid reasons for you not to support Nintendo...they are not valid reasons to create a thread or even to actively hope a company fails. 

I didn't create this thread.
 
Neither was I invalidating over peoples opinions. Again, if you look at my previous posts in this thread you'll see that many of them concede ground on certain points and many of them have me saying 'I agree'.
 
With regards being dramatic, lol, perhaps that post doesn't read as it was intended because there was nothing dramtic about it. I was just pointing out that some people who are defensive about the Wii U tend to make it more personal than perhaps I'm comfortable with. It's not a big deal, just thought it was worth highlighting.

Then I apologize on some of my points about your dramatizing...that is the problem with message boards context is lost even when you carefully word your posts, you can not always ensure people read them like you intended to sound.  Such is any medium in which the audience must interpret and extrapolate meaning from the source.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Then I apologize on some of my points about your dramatizing...that is the problem with message boards context is lost even when you carefully word your posts, you can not always ensure people read them like you intended to sound.  Such is any medium in which the audience must interpret and extrapolate meaning from the source.

Yup. It's really difficult to intonate on the internet, but I guess that's what smileys are for. 

[UncleBob]

It didn't have to be dissected and blown out of proportion like it was.

Aren't you the one who started an entire topic for the purpose of dissecting it and blowing it out of proportion?

[ThomasO]

Well, personally I am a fan of cartridges. They are a lot more durable, have no load times, and are just nice to have.

Not necessarily. Some of my Nintendo DS cartridges don't work anymore because the pins have started to rust. Meanwhile, my copy of Luigi's Mansion works just fine...

[UncleBob]

Not necessarily. Some of my Nintendo DS cartridges don't work anymore because the pins have started to rust.

Dang... what do you do to those things?

[BeautifulShy]

It didn't have to be dissected and blown out of proportion like it was.

Aren't you the one who started an entire topic for the purpose of dissecting it and blowing it out of proportion?

I'd argue it didn't pick up stream till it got moved over here. Nobody posted in the topic for 2 days and that was when it was moved over to this section of the forums. No one was paying any attention to it in the funhouse for 2 days till it was brought here.If people don't pay any mind to a topic it usually will go away after a while.

[UncleBob]

Umm... Your time line is off.  It was posted two days ago, late in the evening (October 07, 2012, 11:09:39 PM).
The first main reply (aside from ShyGuy's Punny reply and CG's own thread bump) was early in the morning on the very next day (Yesterday [October 08] at 07:46:46 AM) - roughly 8 1/2 hours later - not bad, as that time was "overnight".

The topic hasn't even been posted for two days.

[BeautifulShy]

My main point still stands that it shouldn't have been moved. Mods are supposed to be neutral. If you needed to talk to Chozo about the topic in the funhouse it could have been handled differently. I mean the post in question that you brought up was from back in June at around E3. 5 months ago... Was that really worth bringing up again? That goes for both Chozo and Unclebob.

[UncleBob]

A topic about the new Nintendo Console shouldn't have been moved to the Nintendo Console Discussion forum?

And for the record, CG created this thread, sent me two PMs, then posted his first reply in this thread all before I had a chance to reply to any of it (sorry, was too high on Catdrugs at the time).  When sent confrontational messages, I often try to wait a bit to reply so I can try to reduce the chances of me saying something completely stupid in the heat of the moment.  Had CG stuck to the PM method, I would have been happy to discuss the issue with him via PM.  I've discussed multiple issues with individuals over PM that I've been kind enough not to take public (though I do CC some of the other forum leaders).  CG is the one who chose to make this public.

I supplied the post in question because it provided the "context" that CG wanted his quote to have.

And no, Mods aren't supposed to be neutral.  We should strive to be fair.  There's a difference.

[BeautifulShy]

First of all there is already a Wii U topic on this section of this forum. The only purpose I see with this topic was to bring attention to it which quite frankly has done its job. Yeah he may have responded to this topic before you got back to him but you still could have gotten back to him via PM instead of responding to the thread.

Okay I said my peace I am going to do something more productive.

[UncleBob]

First of all there is already a Wii U topic on this section of this forum.

First of all, there are multiple Wii U topics on this section of the forum.  I wasn't aware there was a limit on how many topics any single console was allowed to have...

The only purpose I see with this topic was to bring attention to it which quite frankly has done its job.

As opposed to all the topics that get posted with the purpose of no one giving them any attention?

Yeah he may have responded to this topic before you got back to him but you still could have gotten back to him via PM instead of responding to the thread.

Could have.  Didn't.  My decision.

[Ian Sane]

I realistically want Nintendo to make a product that appeals to my tastes.  They used to fairly consistently and now they mostly don't.  Is it selfish to ask for that?  Yeah, I guess it is.  But this isn't like me stealing food from a starving person or anything.  This is just entertainment.  And everyone wants this.  Everyone wants there to be shows they like on TV and movies they like in the theatre and music they like on the radio.  If the TV show you likes retools itself into something you don't, you get upset.  If the movie you loved gets lousy sequels, you get upset.  If your favourite band changes their style of music to something you don't like, you get upset.  That's normal and if Nintendo turned into something YOU didn't like you would be upset about it too.

Now why should I expect Nintendo to cater to my tastes?  Well because I was here first.  I've been a customer of Nintendo since I was a kid.  Why should I get squeezed out in favour of a new customer base?  And this customer base ignored Nintendo for years.  They had to get "tricked" into trying videogames by this motion control stuff.  So non-customers who have always been close-minded towards Nintendo get priority over loyal customers who have supported the company for years, including the rough Gamecube years?  The Gamecube was their nadir financially and yet I was there on launch day buying the system.  I bought a lot of games on that system, both first and third party.  I defended them as a company and I tried in vain to convince others to buy the Cube.  My reward for this is was to be pushed to the side in favour of some flash-in-the-pan fad audience.

Nintendo were the ones that took their loyal customers for granted.  They were the ones that assumed we would all just stick around and put up with anything as long as they gave us our Mario "fix".  And that worked pretty well because a lot of Nintendo fans were fine with the Wii as long as it had Mario and Zelda and all the rest.  Am I selfish or is Nintendo greedy for selling their longtime customers short for a more lucrative casual audience?  The way I look at it I was a loyal customer with some valid complaints and they told me to stick it.  I want them back and if that means they have to hit rock bottom to realize their mistakes and change, then so be it.

I only want the Wii U to fail if it deserves to.  I feel the Wii overachieved and did not in any way deserve the sales it did and that it was a calculated effort on Nintendo's part to sell a subpar product to rubes who didn't know better and loyal fans that they figured would stick around no matter what.  If the Wii U is the same idea then in a just world it WILL fail.  If it's a great system that deserves to succeed then I want it to.  I would rather Nintendo just get their **** together without having to learn lessons the hard way and I would love for the Wii U to exceed my expectations and be one of the best purchases I've ever made.

[rlse9]

Well, personally I am a fan of cartridges. They are a lot more durable, have no load times, and are just nice to have.

Not necessarily. Some of my Nintendo DS cartridges don't work anymore because the pins have started to rust. Meanwhile, my copy of Luigi's Mansion works just fine...

I'd say that discs may be more durable, if you take care of them, but there's no doubt that the drives that play them tend to wear out a lot more quickly than the non-moving components that play a cartridge.

[Adrock]

If the movie you loved gets lousy sequels, you get upset.  If your favourite band changes their style of music to something you don't like, you get upset.  That's normal and if Nintendo turned into something YOU didn't like you would be upset about it too.

Being upset ≠ complaining about it for 6 years. Not even remotely...

Now why should I expect Nintendo to cater to my tastes? Well because I was here first.  I've been a customer of Nintendo since I was a kid.

If you're going to play the I-had-dibs game like everyone's annoying childhood friend who always changed the rules when you were winning, then you still lose this round. Several people on this board are older than you, were fans before you, AND like what Nintendo is currently doing. This also applies to the rest of your post so no need to quote all that. Sorry, you're not the only one who matters.

(I'm not sorry)

[Evan_B]

Well, Ian... what are your needs? I mean, if you want quality Nintendo titles, you have to support them. Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros, and the like are their money makers and there's no doubt those games will do well, but what else do you really want? I'm legitimately curious.

Oh, and as for the original topic,  it's okay to be a Negative Nancy about some things, but judgement on the console and its games can only be passed when the console and games are released. Now, saying that Nintendo's handling of information about this new device was poor and all, I'm okay with that. But they've really surprised me with their lineup of games thusfar and it shows a strong blend of quality and catering to many niches of gamers. So I remain cautiously optimistic. But if I get the system and it sucks, well, maybe I'll come out and say I want it to fail. But it's not worth the effort now because you don't know if trends will continue or change or whatever.

[UncleBob]

I realistically want Nintendo to make a product that appeals to my tastes.  They used to fairly consistently and now they mostly don't.

How much of that is because Nintendo has changed their product vs how much is because your tastes have changed?

I really need to hook up with the Pietriots and create an "Evolution of First Party Games" chart - showing where each game draws inspiration from in previous generations....

[MrPhishfood]

If the TV show you likes retools itself into something you don't, you get upset.  If the movie you loved gets lousy sequels, you get upset.  If your favourite band changes their style of music to something you don't like, you get upset.  That's normal and if Nintendo turned into something YOU didn't like you would be upset about it too.

What if Nintendo never really changed as far as company values and direction but rather you changed?