Author Topic: I do want the Wii U to fail  (Read 35975 times)

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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2012, 06:26:07 PM »
Why are you so against the tablet controller? It does literally everything any other controller does, and then some.

Let me ask you something. If there wasn't a screen in the middle of it, but it was exactly the same shape and design, would you think it looked as good or felt as comfortable as say a 360 controller or a Gamecube controller? I think people are giving this controller more credit simply because it has a touch screen. For people like myself who aren't all that into touch controls the disadvantages of having an unwieldy controller are not offset by the benefits of having a touch screen.
 
You could of course argue that for people like me there is the Pro controller. From recent reports I've read and heard, however, that controller feels incredibly cheap, very light, and for lack of a better word 'plasticky'. I also believe that it lacks certain features like clickable sticks and force feedback. It sounds as though it's basically a Classic Controller in other words, and while that's fine for virtual console games, I don't really want that to be my primary means of playing modern games.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:28:30 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Oblivion

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2012, 06:27:58 PM »
Your argument is invalid, considering everyone that has used the controller said that it is extremely light and comfortable. If you can't handle that, I suggest that you start lifting weights.

Offline MrPhishfood

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2012, 06:35:42 PM »
I use to remember a time when things got smaller and lighter it meant that technology was improving and therefore worth more. People said the same thing about the iPhone 5, it was too light and so therefore felt cheap despite having been improved in almost every aspect.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2012, 06:43:57 PM »
Your argument is invalid, considering everyone that has used the controller said that it is extremely light and comfortable. If you can't handle that, I suggest that you start lifting weights.

Your comment is invalid because you think 'everyone' came away with the same impressions of the controller when they most certainly did not. I've listened to several podcasts in which people who have had hands on time with the controller have raised concerns about how the controller feels.
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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2012, 06:46:43 PM »
Why are you so against the tablet controller? It does literally everything any other controller does, and then some.

Let me ask you something. If there wasn't a screen in the middle of it, but it was exactly the same shape and design, would you think it looked as good or felt as comfortable as say a 360 controller or a Gamecube controller? I think people are giving this controller more credit simply because it has a touch screen. For people like myself who aren't all that into touch controls the disadvantages of having an unwieldy controller are not offset by the benefits of having a touch screen.
 
You could of course argue that for people like me there is the Pro controller. From recent reports I've read and heard, however, that controller feels incredibly cheap, very light, and for lack of a better word 'plasticky'. I also believe that it lacks certain features like clickable sticks and force feedback. It sounds as though it's basically a Classic Controller in other words, and while that's fine for virtual console games, I don't really want that to be my primary means of playing modern games.



The GamePad's a lot more comfortable than it looks. It's bigger, but is no heavier than a 360 controller, and although I didn't spend extended time with it, it felt good in my hands. I wouldn't call it unwieldy by any means. The Pro controller is very (very) light, but I didn't think it felt cheap, and I'm pretty sure it does have both clicking sticks and rumble.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2012, 06:53:34 PM »
@NWR_insanolord
 
In terms of it being 'unwieldy' I was actually referring to it's size, not so much it's weight. Most of those who have used the controller have said it feels good to hold, which is reassuring, but it's still an awefully big controller. Which makes sense given the screen, but again that's not really what I'm after from a controller.
 
As to the clickable sticks and rumble, that's very possible. I was listening to an episode of 1Up's 'Games Dammit' in which Jose and Rich George from IGN had mentioned that it did not seem to have those features, but they did seem slightly unsure.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2012, 06:59:17 PM »
Your argument is invalid, considering everyone that has used the controller said that it is extremely light and comfortable. If you can't handle that, I suggest that you start lifting weights.

lol

But to be fair, most of the people who have used the controller so far have only played it for like 15 minutes or so. What about someone who plays it for hours on end? We aren't going to know that until the system is out and we are able to give it a proper test. 15 minutes isn't going to give you the whole story.
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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2012, 07:05:22 PM »
@NWR_insanolord
 
In terms of it being 'unwieldy' I was actually referring to it's size, not so much it's weight. Most of those who have used the controller have said it feels good to hold, which is reassuring, but it's still an awefully big controller. Which makes sense given the screen, but again that's not really what I'm after from a controller.
 
As to the clickable sticks and rumble, that's very possible. I was listening to an episode of 1Up's 'Games Dammit' in which Jose and Rich George from IGN had mentioned that it did not seem to have those features, but they did seem slightly unsure.

But why is it being big a problem, then? It's not what you normally see, sure, but I really don't see how it being bigger is in and of itself an issue.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2012, 07:14:13 PM »
@NWR_insanolord
 
Bearing in mind that I haven't yet held it myself, based on it's dimensions I would have thought it would be more cumbersome. I tend to be most comfortable lying on my side with the controller in my hands, I don't quite see how that would work while holding a 10 inch wide tablet. I'm not saying it's a huge issue, but there's no getting around the fact that a larger tablet design is more cumbersome than say a Gamecube controller.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2012, 10:16:25 PM »
*looks at the thread title*

My...someone's begging for attention.  Are we sure Tendoboy isn't your clone?  ;)

*looks at the rest of the thread*

Yeah...I think NOT (no!).  I've said my piece on this subject, my view hasn't changed, and I'd rather watch this movie here than type another 3,000 words describing my thoughts on the Wii U.  Well, back to watching this inevitably-forgettable Direct-to-Video Resident Evil: Damnation movie (yes!).
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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2012, 10:25:47 PM »
No offense, but you're not the only one who'd rather that you didn't do that.

I completely get why some people aren't excited for the system at this point. There's a lot we don't know about it, and we haven't seen too many exclusive titles yet. That's only going to change with time, so continuously arguing about it now is pointless.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2012, 10:29:43 PM »
No offense, but you're not the only one who'd rather that you didn't do that.

None taken. Like I said, even I'm tired of the subject until there's actually any new information/the console actually releases.  And my time's pretty limited these days, so I'd rather not spend it on pointless forum wars.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2012, 12:47:25 AM »
Not true. I said I want the Wii U to fail, which was in the context of the dismal E3 showing. Since then a lot more games have been announced and my position has softened.

I swear, it's like we're speaking two different languages.

That's exactly what you said.  And you repeated it below.  "I want the Wii U to fail so Nintendo could be like they used to be because that's what I want".  It's all about you, you, you.

Quote
Also, I only said I want the Wii U to fail. I never said I wanted Nintendo to fail. The reason I said I wanted the Wii U to fail was so Nintendo could be like they used to be. The NES and SNES were the consoles I grew up with and to this day they remain my favorites of all time. So what do you have to say about that?

Same thing I've said about it before.  Nintendo hasn't changed.  They're still practically the same company they've been since the beginning.

Someone go link to that topic where we break down all the first party titles from each generation and compare them.

Quote
That is why I said I wanted it to fail. It has "Wii" in the name, and that name has a bad taste in my mouth.

Wait, do you want the Wii U to fail because you want Nintendo to be more like your idealized vision of Nintendo or because it has "Wii" in its name (which is an even more insane reason....)

Everyone was disappointed over E3 and that was the time when I said that.
No, not "everyone".


A few general replies.

First, I *love* how some folks complain that they want Nintendo to be more like they were in the olden days, then turn around and complain about all the things that Nintendo did in the olden days (sticking to Cartridges, alienating third parties, etc.) that put Nintendo where they were in the N64/GCN-era, then talk about how they loved the N64/GCN-eras.

Second, I also *love* the folks that want Nintendo to do things more like Microsoft and Sony.  Sure, they could do *some* things similar... but, overall, I don't *WANT* Nintendo to be another Microsoft or Sony.  We already have those companies.  Instead of Nintendo being a cheap imitation of one of those two, I'd rather them continue to be Nintendo.

Third, I have no issues with those who have valid complaints against Nintendo.  I have more than a few myself (ask NinSage, who thinks I'm some kind of Anti-Nintendo-Extreme or something :D).  But there's a difference between disagreeing with them and interjecting your negativity into every other thread whenever you manage to create yourself an opening to do so.  A huge difference.
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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2012, 12:50:09 AM »
I've been kicking around the idea of writing an editorial for the site talking about how the people who think Nintendo has changed are crazy because they're basically the same company they've always been. I don't know that that's necessarily a good thing, mind you, but you're fooling yourself if you think there's been a significant shift in the way the company operates.
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Offline Oblivion

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2012, 12:52:40 AM »
How about we all just stop bitching and get along? I swear, I've seen 13-year-old girls bitch less than you guys.

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2012, 01:19:18 AM »
We don't necessarily all have to get along for the bitching to stop, which it most likely won't, ever. And the real problem right now is we've been having essentially the same argument over and over again since E3.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2012, 01:24:56 AM »
All I can say is there was a time I wanted Sony and Sega to fail.  Then I saw what happened to Sega when it failed, and I saw what happened to Nintendo as it struggled and Sony as it struggled.  Some good things and some bad. 

In the end, I don't want any of the companies to fail anymore.  I hope they can all have some sort of success, and that each others successes do not hurt the other competitor, but in a way makes them stronger. 

What I really think about is what would happen to Nintendo is it failed, how would it respond.  If Nintendo had failed with the Wii...I do not pretend to know where Nintendo might be now...though I am sure motion controls would not be in any of the companies futures...which would be a shame sense good motion controls are a great addition to the gaming industry.  I tend to think worst case scenario and believe Nintendo could have been out of the home market and only in the portable market if the Wii failed. 

Now, Nintendo is going with a new system that is conservative...but also quite more focused on traditional gamers and pushing for better online play and HD graphics...if Nintendo fails with the Wii U do you think they would move forward the right direction or take steps backwards? 

The same could be said for all the companies.  Failure does not mean the company is going to rise again start making the best choices and make you and everyone else happy. 

 

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2012, 01:35:25 AM »
This thread is a Monster!

Get it? Huh? Huh?

Offline UncleBob

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2012, 01:53:36 AM »
Someone go link to that topic where we break down all the first party titles from each generation and compare them.

Well, we never did get quite as far into it as we started out with... Could still be fun to do.  Wonder if I can find the spreadsheet I had made...
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Offline Adrock

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2012, 01:57:32 AM »
So it would seem the strategy for becoming the leader is to wait until the current leader does something stupid.
That's hardly a strategy. You get no where if you sit on your hands and wait for someone to trip on a rock. You have to be proactive. It's important to acknowledge what your competitors are doing right, but you can't just copy them entirely. Why should anyone choose you over them? It can also backfire. If you simply copy a competitor, don't you just put yourself in the same position they're in? That's like watching someone walk off a cliff, then following them off the same cliff.
...having a Wii U pro controller which does not have force feedback...
Rumble in the Pro Controller has been confirmed. I read it on Kotaku. Apparently, it's not very strong though.
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I don't want friend codes, I don't want poor online services, I don't want 8 and 9 month gaps in the release schedule, I don't want to have to use 3 different controllers, or motion controls, or tablet controllers.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2012, 02:19:48 AM »
Well, I've tried to be patient, to answer some of the questions put to me, and I've also attempted to state my thoughts as clearly as I can to help explain why I have the impressions I do. There are clearly people who disagree with me, which I have no problem with. There are, however, clearly some people in this thread that simply want to brand mine and others opinions as 'crazy' and to put them into a certain 'negative' camp so that they can feel better about disregarding them. If you were to read through my posts and replys on this thread I believe my criticisms are pointed but also amicable and reasonably well argued (as well as your likely to get on a forum at least). In other words I've made my points as clear as I'm likely to without being facetious.
 
I do, however, regret even speaking up in the first place. Perhaps the lurkers are on to something.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 02:21:33 AM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Adrock

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2012, 02:34:14 AM »
Stop being so dramatic. I quoted Dr. Suess to you.

Offline Kairon

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2012, 03:11:22 AM »
What I really think about is what would happen to Nintendo is it failed, how would it respond.

Nintendo failed with the GameCube. They responded by giving us the Wii. <3 Iwata.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2012, 03:34:52 AM »
I swear, it's like we're speaking two different languages.

That's exactly what you said.  And you repeated it below.  "I want the Wii U to fail so Nintendo could be like they used to be because that's what I want".  It's all about you, you, you.

Well, if its my own personal opinion then naturally its going to be about what I want. Just as your opinion is about what you want, and everyone else's is about what they want.

We all may have different opinions, but we are all here because we like Nintendo as a company. That doesn't mean we have to like every product they make, or agree with every policy, or even like every person who works there. But as a whole we like the company and the franchises overall. I think on that we are in perfect agreement.

But I don't make it any secret that I am not fan of Wiis, or Miis, or Carnival games or any of that stuff. If you do, that's fine. I respect your opinion. But please also respect mine. People don't have to agree 100% on everything in order to get along with each other.

Same thing I've said about it before.  Nintendo hasn't changed.  They're still practically the same company they've been since the beginning.

Someone go link to that topic where we break down all the first party titles from each generation and compare them.

I remember that.

But the Wii brand is a new phenomenon. The casual focus is also a new phenomenon. I understand Nintendo has made casual games in the past, but never has it been the primary focus of the company like its been this generation.

Yes, Mario Paint is considered a casual game, but for some reason I actually enjoyed that and would be happy if they made a modern version of it, but for some reason I didn't like Wii Sports or Wii Music. I gave both of those games a chance, but they didn't appeal to me at all. So why is it that I enjoyed the casual Mario Paint but not these? I don't know. Maybe its the Miis or the waggle controls. I don't know. But there is definitely a difference with this generation than all others.

Also, Wii Sports was the pack in of the console. With the NES it was SMB, and with the SNES it was Super Mario World both of those were core titles, but the Wii was the first console to have something casual as the packin. And this set the tone for the entire generation.

Wait, do you want the Wii U to fail because you want Nintendo to be more like your idealized vision of Nintendo or because it has "Wii" in its name (which is an even more insane reason....)

I don't want the Wii U to fail at all as long as the core game support is there and its not a repeat of what the Wii was. I can live with the name, even though personally I don't like it. The games are what will make or break the Wii U for me. Right now its still a big question mark as to whether developers are actually going to give it the same  respect and support that the competition will receive.

But my point is I can be won over, and I want to be won over. I don't criticize just to criticize. There is a reason for it.

No, not "everyone".

You know what I mean though.

First, I *love* how some folks complain that they want Nintendo to be more like they were in the olden days, then turn around and complain about all the things that Nintendo did in the olden days (sticking to Cartridges, alienating third parties, etc.) that put Nintendo where they were in the N64/GCN-era, then talk about how they loved the N64/GCN-eras.

Well, personally I am a fan of cartridges. They are a lot more durable, have no load times (not that optical discs really do anymore), and are just nice to have. Alienating third parties wasn't a cool thing, though, and I understand why there was a need to move over to optical discs. I don't complain either that Nintendo stuck with cartridges or moved on to optical discs. Both have their pros and cons, so in the end for me as a gamer either way is fine, but understandably for developers discs were the way to go.

As far as Nintendo's tyrannical dealings with third parties go, I don't condone that, but it didn't really impact the level of support Nintendo received in those days because they were a monopoly and were able to get away with it. It was only in later generations that they suffered the consequences for it. But from the perspective of a gamer (and especially one who was just a kid in those days) I was oblivious to that. Now I'm aware of it, but back then I didn't know any better. But what I do know is that Nintendo has surely suffered enough for being dicks, and there's no reason for third parties to continue hating on them and holding a grudge like some of them still seem to do.

Second, I also *love* the folks that want Nintendo to do things more like Microsoft and Sony.  Sure, they could do *some* things similar... but, overall, I don't *WANT* Nintendo to be another Microsoft or Sony.  We already have those companies.  Instead of Nintendo being a cheap imitation of one of those two, I'd rather them continue to be Nintendo.

That's the wrong attitude to have about that. Instead of being a "cheap imitation" of those two, Nintendo should be striving to be a "Superior Imitation" or whatever you want to call it. Nintendo should be competing in all genres of gaming. The problem is they seem to have this attitude that competing with Microsoft/Sony is "too hard" so rather than try they just ignore certain demographics (like FPS) entirely. In my opinion this is the wrong attitude to have. You shouldn't just give up and not try, but at the same time you are right that they should be a cheap watered down imitation either. What they should do is compete with the intention of winning and dominating and owning the market. This is the attitude they should have.

The way the Wii U kinda comes across is as a hybrid platform geared towards both the casual and the core market. But there is a proverb which says when you chase two rabbits you lose both of them. So maybe that is what will happen here. By taking the "middle of the road" path and going half for casuals and half for core gamers, Nintendo may just end up alienating both of them. Microsoft and Sony are probably gearing up to go all out with their consoles, just like they did last gen with their behemoths. If the Wii U appears to be a "cheap imitation" then are developers going to want to support it, and are core gamers going to want to buy it?

This is a very legitimate concern. I'm not saying it to troll or anything like that. This already happened last gen, so there is a very good chance it could happen again. I don't want Nintendo to repeat these mistakes. That's why I'm speaking out.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 03:37:35 AM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: I do want the Wii U to fail
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2012, 03:42:23 AM »
Pixelated Pixies:  You will find this group of people to be the most open you can find in supporting differing opinions.  However, allowing differing opinions to be posted and discussed is quite different than agreeing with them without a debate or at least a discussion on the topic.  We have Ian Sane as the perfect proof.  We love him.  We hate him...but he always has valid opinions and points to discuss about Nintendo and no matter how negative (or positive) he gets I always want him here to discuss Nintendo, because he loves Nintendo...when they do great things...and calls Nintendo out when they don't.

Now, the difference might be you created a thread specifically to wish ill-will on a company many people support...and although your reasons are valid reasons for you not to support Nintendo...they are not valid reasons to create a thread or even to actively hope a company fails. 

Again, I am just expressing my opinion about your opinion...the funny thing is...when you get melodramatic that people are attacking your opinion and not validating it...you are invalidating their opinion about your opinion.