Author Topic: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones  (Read 65182 times)

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Offline oohhboy

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #75 on: January 22, 2012, 10:40:40 PM »
*facepalm* :Q

*Snide with hint of snark*I think the Russians in World War 2 had a better track record than you. Followed with something really, really, mean*/Snide with hint of snark*

The only other game with survivable attrition rates this high is X-com. It is cheaper to scout with warm bodies than to use drone vehicles unless you value lives in anyway. Mission casualty rates of 90+% is not unheard of in a rout. Rush'n'Attack!
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Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2012, 11:38:28 PM »
My magic users have all died too, but it looks like I'll have a new one in the latest chapter. Every soldier left behind! I place no value on Fire Emblem lives!
Man, I'll have to remember this when its time pick leaders in the post apocalyptic world.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #77 on: January 22, 2012, 11:57:13 PM »
Oh, whatever!   I just finished chapter 6, and the bit with the bracelet was so predictable.  No, it was stupider than predictable.  Argh, stupid anime story.  Why do I pay attention?

On another note, I was only able to save 1 of the villagers from the spider.  Will that affect me in any way?  Would it have been better to save all 3, other than saving innocents from a horrible gruesome death and stuff.  You know, a benefit that actually matters?

Saving all three would have netted you an item that promotes archers, of which there is only one in the game (The other bow-user is already promoted when you get him). So if Neimi's already dead, don't sweat it. If you're not going to use Neimi, don't sweat it. And if you are going to use Neimi but either 1) find the secret shop (unlikely), or 2) are willing to use the Master Seal (a promote-almost-anyone item) on her, then don't sweat it.

Neimi's a pretty good character, so losing out on her promotion isn't a great thing, but you can definitely create a good group without her.

Offline Hey Einstein!

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2012, 11:26:58 AM »
Hi, this is my first post.


I love me some turn based JRPG action and I've been wanting to get in on a Retro active for a while, so this seemed perfect. But boy oh boy this game is walking a thin line between love and hate for me.


I love the look of the game and the way the units control. But I've taken a strong dislike to how stupidly easy to kill some units are and the lack of any kind of resurrection despite some of the well put arguments in favour of it on this thread,).
For me, this game design just means that I end up playing a very defensive game, which is starting to get dull. Keeping Ross alive is a grind-fest, pure and simple.


What I HATE HATE HATE is how the story is told through those endless talking head cut scenes. I sit down with my 3DS for a 30 min lunch break and have to endure this tedium when I want to be playing the game or saving at the end of the level I've just played. Didn't Intelligent Systems realise this was going to be played on a handheld?


The last SJRPG I played was Sega's iOS rehash of Shining Force, it's showing it's age but I thought the dialog and story telling techniques were light years ahead of Sacred Stones.


I'm about a quarter of the way through so I'll be interested to see if I make it to the end and how I feel about the death system and story then.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 11:28:57 AM by Hey Einstein! »

Offline oohhboy

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2012, 12:49:45 PM »
If want to speed through the game more, turn text speed up to max, skip battle animations. It makes the game rather dull, but speeds things up massively. Be sure to turn on detailed battle information since it lets you predict the outcome of any single battle that doesn't involve critical hits on the enemy side.

If you don't like the story enough to care, hit start during the talking heads. Skips them. Intelligent Systems made it so you can play it at home or on the move by giving you the options to skip things.

Initially the game is defensive as your team just isn't that strong and you might have to cheese it a little like airlifting Green NPCs. But later, as you level up, taking the offensive become more of an option as brute force can be used assuming you haven't been throwing away your people to the literal wolves. but care must still be taken as the computer almost always has the advantage in numbers and aren't afraid to have a Kill:death ratio of 1:10. It's also one your biggest advantage assuming your own hubris doesn't get in the way especially when the level designer starts using critical weapons, changing the engagement ranges, ambushes.

Ross and people like him are long term rewards and the rewards are that you get a murder machines. They reap death and pack them in nice bales for easy delivery.

Consequences, consequences, consequences.
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Offline Hey Einstein!

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2012, 06:37:45 AM »
Thanks for the advice. I'm an Advance Wars veteran so i sped up the text and cut the battle animations pretty early on.


I realise you can skip the cut scenes but I would like to have some idea whats going on in the story, so skim reading and repeatedly hitting the A button is my solution. But for me they still drag on and on & are inconvenient when my lunch hour is coming to an end. For example, I'd have let Ross die a long time ago if I didn't know that I had his dad fighting for me, I just can't do that to the guy!


Anyway, my point is that we all know there are better ways to tell a story then this. Show don't tell! etc


Hey I would appreciate a pro tip. How exactly do you get the support feature to work?
I've read the guide, checked the unit status's between chapters and had various units stood next to each others for plenty of turns, but I'm getting nothing. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?


ta very much!

Offline oohhboy

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2012, 08:34:09 AM »
It's a GBA game, talking heads is the best they can do. Shining Force get portraits which is no different to talking heads and the odd picture. At the time storage considerations meant large file sizes were uneconomical and the GBA had barely enough processing power to play movies if it had them assuming the compression didn't turn them into ice cream sprinkles. This game is only 9.74 MB in size. You can fit the entire GBA library on to a memory stick today.

To enable support between compatible units, you just need to park them next to each other at the end of the turn. After so many turns you get the talk option the next time you bring them side by side. Each support relationship take a different number of turns depending how close they are in the story. Brother and sister, Father and son, Mentor and student are close relationships that grow quickly in support levels. Then you have battle brothers, bodyguards, people in the same guild/companies that grow at moderate rates. Lastly you have rivals and relationships of respect that level up quite slowly. If there is no real relation, there isn't s support option. Support is nice as a bonus, but not critical and is hard to manage at the same time while staying alive. The best way to go about it if you really want them, is to cheese it by clearing a map of everybody but the boss then park them next to each other turn after turn.

Letting support levels go up organically during play is the better method as you only level up units you tend to use together.
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Offline lolmonade

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2012, 08:37:40 AM »
I'm liking the game so far, although i'm not too thrilled about the phrase "fog of war" I skimmed over.
 
I have a bit of concern over whether or not I'm leveling up all my characters adequately (i'm only at the beginning of Chapter 4).  I have 2 characters that basically steamroll over anything they cross, but the majority of my other characters have such low HP that I only feel comfortable letting them chip away at an enemy if I know that enemy will die in that round, being afraid that that weak character will get killed if the enemy survives the round.
 
On the other hand, I don't want my weaker characters to be so weak going into the later Chapters that they essentially become incapable of doing anything positive with them other than being a meatshield.
 
I've had no deaths so far, but am sure they will start dropping like flies as I go farther along.  I don't have the patience to re-start battles over and over again, so I believe I will also be one that goes the route of letting people stay dead to keep the pace going as long as I can still get victories.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2012, 09:04:42 AM »
I wouldn't worry about the fog of War too much. The chapter before you encounter it you get a torch and the ability to go shopping for supplies like the powerful torch staff for wand using magic users. If you are only at Chapter 4 you still have the chance to even out your team and improve the weaker characters. They shouldn't be that weak unless you have been using Seth, the newbie EXP sucking trap, based on what you have said, you have. The only other character that powerful is your lord who you do want to level in line with the rest of your crew.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2012, 10:09:03 AM »
Have to say the Erika does not keep up with everyone else.  I make it a point to try get here combat even though losing her is an instant loss.  I know I'll always have to have her but she just isn't leveling up or dishing out the damage of equivalent level units.  I don't expect her to hit like my Berserker or any of the Upgraded units but, I do expect here to be more in line with the Cavalier.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2012, 10:39:52 AM »
Erika and sword masters like her are offensive glass cannons great at first strike. They have ridiculously high critical rates and very high dodge rate which works against all attacks except the sniper which has a special skill. Their HP is a little low, but they have decent defense, weak resistance and massive amount of speed. Early on you use light weight weapons like the slim sword and Rapier. Their damage doesn't come directly from their weapons but their ability to crit and not to take damage.

Maxed out, they can take on entire groups by themselves assuming you don't miss match them against magic unless it's a first strike. If you want to take on magic, the Pegasus Knights are your best bet as they bypass magic users high resistance.

In later chapters the numbers start getting a bit screwy as critical become more of a factor until you can almost count on them as much as flat damage.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2012, 10:52:25 AM »
Erika and sword masters like her are offensive glass cannons great at first strike. They have ridiculously high critical rates and very high dodge rate which works against all attacks except the sniper which has a special skill. Their HP is a little low, but they have decent defense, weak resistance and massive amount of speed. Early on you use light weight weapons like the slim sword and Rapier. Their damage doesn't come directly from their weapons but their ability to crit and not to take damage.

Maxed out, they can take on entire groups by themselves assuming you don't miss match them against magic unless it's a first strike. If you want to take on magic, the Pegasus Knights are your best bet as they bypass magic users high resistance.

In later chapters the numbers start getting a bit screwy as critical become more of a factor until you can almost count on them as much as flat damage.
I just started doing the tower to grind my Pupil and I have Erika on the front line to take the hits because its level 1 tower and she could use the XP.  She's at least lvl 12 and I don't have the exact number where I can get it now.   On the Zombie's using the Slim Sword she is only doing about half their bar.

Also does all the levels in Dancer increase my dancers movement?  She's relatively easy to grind and I really like her to have more mobility.  Shoot if I could get her to be able to keep pace with my farthest traveling unit I say that be a good investment of time.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2012, 11:13:37 AM »
You are still early game as she promotes later. Give her a steel sword backup as higher level weapons do more damage, but slow you down. You only have to have an Attack speed(Bottom stat in detailed battle info) >=4 to get a second strike. Any faster is a waste. Each character has 3 weapons for varying speeds and situations. Early on, if you want something to really die, break out the Rapier.

The dancer's movement doesn't increase without items. I find her very useful even with the relatively slow movement as she can be a "clone" of any character.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2012, 11:21:10 AM »
I'm liking the game so far, although i'm not too thrilled about the phrase "fog of war" I skimmed over.
 
I have a bit of concern over whether or not I'm leveling up all my characters adequately (i'm only at the beginning of Chapter 4).  I have 2 characters that basically steamroll over anything they cross, but the majority of my other characters have such low HP that I only feel comfortable letting them chip away at an enemy if I know that enemy will die in that round, being afraid that that weak character will get killed if the enemy survives the round.
 
On the other hand, I don't want my weaker characters to be so weak going into the later Chapters that they essentially become incapable of doing anything positive with them other than being a meatshield.
 
I've had no deaths so far, but am sure they will start dropping like flies as I go farther along.  I don't have the patience to re-start battles over and over again, so I believe I will also be one that goes the route of letting people stay dead to keep the pace going as long as I can still get victories.

Regarding fog of war, there are only three such maps in the game, so don't sweat it too much. On the flip side, two of those three tend to be the toughest maps (chapters 6 and 11. Chapter 11 is particularly annoying, depending on what decision you made after chapter 7).

As for levelling, like oohboy said, make sure you're not letting Seth kill anything. What you should instead do is strip him of all weapons, and then use him to lure enemies towards your group (keep everyone else out of the enemies' range). Gang up on the lured enemies with your weaker units, and thus let them soak up the EXP.

Have to say the Erika does not keep up with everyone else.  I make it a point to try get here combat even though losing her is an instant loss.  I know I'll always have to have her but she just isn't leveling up or dishing out the damage of equivalent level units.  I don't expect her to hit like my Berserker or any of the Upgraded units but, I do expect here to be more in line with the Cavalier.

 Eirikia will never be a powerhouse, I'm afraid. Just keep here levelled enough to avoid dying easily, but don't expect her to match your other attackers. She'll hold her own, though.
 

Offline leahsdad

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2012, 06:44:26 PM »


Anyway, my point is that we all know there are better ways to tell a story then this. Show don't tell! etc


You obviously don't see the Tolstoy-esque weaving of narrative and language that is going on in this game.  I'm constantly impressed by how expertly the game tells its story.  For example, the title to Chapter 8 is "It's a Trap!"  With the exclamation mark.  Now, with such a subtle title, you would never ever guess what kind of situation your heroes find themselves in.  No, I won't spoil it for you.   I guess you'll just have to play it to know what the title "It's a Trap!" alludes to. 

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Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2012, 11:50:13 PM »


Anyway, my point is that we all know there are better ways to tell a story then this. Show don't tell! etc


You obviously don't see the Tolstoy-esque weaving of narrative and language that is going on in this game.  I'm constantly impressed by how expertly the game tells its story.  For example, the title to Chapter 8 is "It's a Trap!"  With the exclamation mark.  Now, with such a subtle title, you would never ever guess what kind of situation your heroes find themselves in.  No, I won't spoil it for you.   I guess you'll just have to play it to know what the title "It's a Trap!" alludes to. 


They are going to watch Star Wars?
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2012, 02:13:52 AM »
I have always been intrigued by the Fire Emblem series, but for whatever reason I've always found it difficult to dig into. While playing The Scared Stones, however, I think I've identified why that is. While playing through the first 7 or so chapters of Sacred Stones I realised that it often confounds conventional video game wisdom. At least in te early stages of Sacred Stones I found that it was in my interests to use my weakest characters, resulting in me benching those who were either stronger or more suitable for the enemy being faced. With Fire Emblem the desire to win a battle with as few causalties as possible is tempered by the need to use weaker characters in order to make them stronger and (eventually) useful. It can be very rewarding when you find this balance but it can also be a little frustrating.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 02:15:57 AM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2012, 12:55:20 PM »
I have always been intrigued by the Fire Emblem series, but for whatever reason I've always found it difficult to dig into. While playing The Scared Stones, however, I think I've identified why that is. While playing through the first 7 or so chapters of Sacred Stones I realised that it often confounds conventional video game wisdom. At least in te early stages of Sacred Stones I found that it was in my interests to use my weakest characters, resulting in me benching those who were either stronger or more suitable for the enemy being faced. With Fire Emblem the desire to win a battle with as few causalties as possible is tempered by the need to use weaker characters in order to make them stronger and (eventually) useful. It can be very rewarding when you find this balance but it can also be a little frustrating.
The Tower really helps with that.

I just got Ewan and I knew already that he was suppose to be a great character once level.
Did level 1 Tower with him killing everything got him to lvl 10 after the first run.  Turned him into a shaman, got him a weapon, and went back in.

That time I literally kept everyone in the back and walked him through to kill all the monsters because I wanted to see how good he was. In that 1 run he went from a lvl 1 Shaman to a Lvl 9.
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Offline Da Jarvis

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2012, 02:14:32 PM »
Yeah, Ewan is really good in the game.  He is the only way you can get a shaman in the game and he is a beast as a Druid. Be sure you don't upgrade him till he reaches 20 though, as you won't get his full stat growth if you do it any earlier.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 03:25:15 PM by Da Jarvis »
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Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2012, 08:47:17 PM »
I got Ewan to 20 Shaman with barely any work and just playing around with him got him to level 4 Druid.  All without progressing to the next chapter...
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Offline leahsdad

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2012, 12:40:59 PM »
Just finished Chap 9....must say, the game has definitely gotten a bit easier after Chap 7, but I think it's more me really figuring out how to play the game more than the game itself decreasing in difficulty.   I had to restart Chap 8 a couple of times, but that's because I was stupid and careless, which this game punishes severely.  I basically sent Eireka to go kill the boss, thinking at LVL 12 she'd take care of it easily, with no range support, no healers, no mounted rescue units anywhere within range.   Yup, I deserved that restart.

I think I've said a lot of crap about this game in this thread, but to be perfectly honest, I love it.  It's not amazing, 10/10, innovation, but....it scratches that itch that games like FF tactics and other tactical RPG's scratch, that mental puzzle solving, chess kind of itch married with a snowball-like sense of progression.  It's flawed, but it is incredibly fun, and though it has frustrating moments, none of them are boring.  I think for any game, that's quite an accomplishment.  I said before that I don't blame anyone for wanting to quit playing this game, but at the same time, what everyone has said is true, it is a fun game, and the frustration dies down after Chap 7, not because the game has changed, but because you have changed.  I think if I went back and started the game over again, I could probably breeze through it without restarting a single time.

Oh, and by the way, at the end of Chap 8 when you get a major choice, I went with one of the choices but I'm really curious about the other one.  Are those a set of missions that I will never get to play unless I go back to an old save or restart the entire game?  Is one better than the other?  I'm being vague because I don't want to spoil anything.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #96 on: January 26, 2012, 01:42:16 PM »
Oh, and by the way, at the end of Chap 8 when you get a major choice, I went with one of the choices but I'm really curious about the other one.  Are those a set of missions that I will never get to play unless I go back to an old save or restart the entire game?  Is one better than the other?  I'm being vague because I don't want to spoil anything.
From what I've read you can't get certain units going down one path or the other and some units you still get but at different times.  I know there are different missions in each and its not just a character swap.  Though I would assume they share the last mission or two.  I don't realy know.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2012, 04:45:34 PM »
I think I've said a lot of crap about this game in this thread, but to be perfectly honest, I love it.  It's not amazing, 10/10, innovation, but....it scratches that itch that games like FF tactics and other tactical RPG's scratch, that mental puzzle solving, chess kind of itch married with a snowball-like sense of progression.  It's flawed, but it is incredibly fun, and though it has frustrating moments, none of them are boring.  I think for any game, that's quite an accomplishment.  I said before that I don't blame anyone for wanting to quit playing this game, but at the same time, what everyone has said is true, it is a fun game, and the frustration dies down after Chap 7, not because the game has changed, but because you have changed.  I think if I went back and started the game over again, I could probably breeze through it without restarting a single time.

Oh, and by the way, at the end of Chap 8 when you get a major choice, I went with one of the choices but I'm really curious about the other one.  Are those a set of missions that I will never get to play unless I go back to an old save or restart the entire game?  Is one better than the other?  I'm being vague because I don't want to spoil anything.

I'm glad to hear your sentiments in the first paragraph, especially since they're ones I share completely.  ;D It's like I said before: the series loves to punish you for making mistakes, but it's quite rewarding when you make the "right" choices (i.e. utilize the game's mechanics correctly).

That said, your complaints about the story are still valid.  :P: :

As for your question, someone remarked earlier that the game is surprisingly short. That's because you'll miss a third of the game's content, depending on what choice you made. For the record, one choice, Ephraim is harder than the other, to the point where that Chapter 11 is probably the toughest level in the game, especially on Hard Mode. There are also three different characters that you miss out on until near the end game, depending on what choice you made, but in terms of quality I'd say that's a wash. Story wise, there are also a few things you'll only learn by making the other choice. All in all though, I'd say that choosing Ephraim is the more rewarding option, but beginners are better off making the opposite decision.

Offline lolmonade

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2012, 09:55:09 PM »
My wife has been swiping my 3DS away from me each time I'm not looking to play Mario 3D land...

Finally lost someone (the male magic caster...forget his name).  I've been keeping the ****-wrecker out of battle to bulk up all of my pansy characters.  Enjoying the game so far.  Someone mentioned the story being bad, but I haven't noticed anything terribly offensive for video game standards. 

Stopped tonight at the first fog of war level.  Definitely little to complain about given that I didn't pay anything for the game.

Offline Hey Einstein!

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Re: RetroActive #21: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2012, 05:33:40 AM »
It's a GBA game, talking heads is the best they can do. Shining Force get portraits which is no different to talking heads and the odd picture.


I totally disagree. Talking Heads is just exposition and it's unnecessary despite hardware limitations, which is what my Shining Force example was about.


In Shining Force you wonder around a town/castle/village before and after battles where you bump into characters and have short conversations with them and get a feel for the place you are in and how the story effects the people in that area. Yes, when they speak you see a little portrait of them, but the method of introducing them is far more dynamic. Most importantly you witness events happening in front of you during mission chapters using in game graphics. I've seen a little of this in Fire Emblem, but mostly it's just cut scenes full of talking heads and stilted dialog. This method leaves me cold.


Shining Force doesn't have better actual game play but the story telling is in a different league so I felt far more engaged playing it. I did not intend to start a 'which turn based game is best' discussion though.


As for my own progress; I'm sick of restarts so I'm letting characters stay dead now and I'm enjoying the game much more, despite struggling to look my self in the mirror or sleep at night. I guess it's one of those games where it takes a while to find your own rhythm of play.


Now I just have to learn to live with the guilt.....