Author Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*  (Read 3140910 times)

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8375 on: February 21, 2018, 03:34:05 PM »
A deluxe port may run into licensing issues with guest characters like Cloud.  I think at this point a full-on new SSB game makes sense.  They can then negotiate third party characters from scratch.  After all if they can't get the Wii U third party characters in a Switch port then it's an inferior port.

I also fear that if Nintendo goes with ports for this and Mario Kart that we may not get a proper new release for those series on the Switch.  We don't get multiple games in those series for one platform.  Are we going to get a Mario Kart 9 on the Switch or does the MK8 port "count"?

I don't have SSB on the Wii U as I was holding out for a version with all the DLC included so it doesn't really matter to me either way.  But I think a proper sequel is the way to go.

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8376 on: February 21, 2018, 04:22:43 PM »
Edit: alright where did this new description come from? It disrespects Ridley and all who worship him! As I tell my kids, who I got to whoop?

:D You're only noticing that title change now?! I think I did that at least a month ago if not longer. I think it's a great title tat captures something we all associate with you. Plus, I don't see any mention of Ridley in that title so not sure what he's got to do with it. It seems that you yourself are too big for Smash Bros if I'm reading it correctly. However, if you really want another title change, just send me a pm or reply back to this stating so but I can't guarantee you will like it any better. That's the NWR Title way!
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8377 on: February 21, 2018, 07:15:35 PM »
A deluxe port may run into licensing issues with guest characters like Cloud.  I think at this point a full-on new SSB game makes sense.  They can then negotiate third party characters from scratch.  After all if they can't get the Wii U third party characters in a Switch port then it's an inferior port.

I also fear that if Nintendo goes with ports for this and Mario Kart that we may not get a proper new release for those series on the Switch.  We don't get multiple games in those series for one platform.  Are we going to get a Mario Kart 9 on the Switch or does the MK8 port "count"?

I don't have SSB on the Wii U as I was holding out for a version with all the DLC included so it doesn't really matter to me either way.  But I think a proper sequel is the way to go.

Going back into theory mode.

When Smash 3wiiDU DLC was being negotiated I have to assume they realized the game wasn't going to be all it could be and made preparations for the future. It really is hard imagining those 3rd Party characters topped right? Sakurai very well may have realized this early on and negotiated for those characters to appear in the next title as well.

So much of Switch's success has revolved around top Wii U games getting moved over to a system that people actualy wanted and Smash being a part of that makes way too much sense for me. Iwata and Sakurai knew the next Smash was going to be needed right away and I'm certain that job listing was legit.

The amount of work that went into the near 60 character roster and all those stages across 2 games will certainly be leveraged further. That instead of starting from scratch with a new engine and such.

Now I know that sounds too much like a Mario Kart 8 port but we all know the true draw of Smash Bros and thats the characters. Much like Splatoon 2 this will only seem like a port to the uninformed. Expect a good 10-15 brand new characters if Sakurai is involved, along with everyone from the previous roster. A bunch of new and improved modes, stages, tons of music, etc.

Count on it. I know how these things work.

Edit: alright where did this new description come from? It disrespects Ridley and all who worship him! As I tell my kids, who I got to whoop?

 :D You're only noticing that title change now?! I think I did that at least a month ago if not longer. I think it's a great title tat captures something we all associate with you. Plus, I don't see any mention of Ridley in that title so not sure what he's got to do with it. It seems that you yourself are too big for Smash Bros if I'm reading it correctly. However, if you really want another title change, just send me a pm or reply back to this stating so but I can't guarantee you will like it any better. That's the NWR Title way!

Man I don't know how I missed it! I actually do like it though. Whether the Ridley association was intentional or not it is pretty perfect for me. A title earned not asked for.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 07:17:18 PM by Caterkiller »
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8378 on: February 21, 2018, 07:27:02 PM »
Yeah, fighting games are defined by their characters so really you can add some new characters and some new backgrounds and, boom, SSB sequel.  It doesn't really matter if it uses the same engine as other fighting games do that all the time.

With racing games the tracks are what matters so if the tracks are largely taken from an earlier game with a few new ones that comes across as a port instead of a proper sequel.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8379 on: February 21, 2018, 08:32:33 PM »
This is Smash 5.

Smash 4 3DS and Smash 4 Wii U were essentially the same game. This one is likely going to be the same case, so really we should just call it Smash 4 Switch.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8380 on: February 21, 2018, 08:41:42 PM »
This is Smash 5.

Smash 4 3DS and Smash 4 Wii U were essentially the same game. This one is likely going to be the same case, so really we should just call it Smash 4 Switch.
No it isn't. One has smash run and the other one has smash tour. They're totally different. :smug:

The sad thing is people actually unironically make that argument
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 08:43:42 PM by pokepal148 »

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8381 on: February 21, 2018, 09:21:56 PM »
The job listing called it Smash Bros 6. Sakurai will call it Smash Bros 6 as he considers 3DS the 4th title and Wii U the 5th.

3DS and Wii U offered the same roster with the same mechanics but the different stages and modes are enough for me to refer to the new game as Smash 6 as well.

Not that I really care too much. What ever we refer to it as we all know we are talking about the next Smash.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8382 on: February 21, 2018, 10:59:48 PM »
It's the sixth Smash Bros. game, certainly. But if it's based on the same systems as Smash 4, then it will be a new version of Smash 4.

Brawl and Smash 4 are not the same game. Melee and Brawl are not the same game. They have the same characters but there are a number of key differences that set them apart. Smash 4 3DS and Smash 4 Wii U are as similar as you can possibly get in regards to replicating the same fighting mechanics on two different systems.

Smash 4 3DS is the Street Fighter IV 3DS edition of Smash 4.

I'm not trying to be contrarian, or anything. Yes, Smash 4 3DS has Smash Run and Street Smash, and Smash 4 Wii U has the Hand Challenges and whatever that stupid board game mode was, but they're just additions atop a base game. It's like saying Tekken Tag Tournament 2 for Wii U is a completely different game from any other version because it has Tekkenball.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 11:03:15 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8383 on: February 21, 2018, 11:38:16 PM »
Maybe Doom guy will be in Smash Bros.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8384 on: February 22, 2018, 09:38:00 AM »
Upgraded port for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U seems like the most likely scenario.

1. While it sold well for a Wii U game, Nintendo would be reaching far more people, far more quickly for a fraction of the work by porting to Switch in a Mario Kart 8 Deluxe package with all DLC and just adding/updating things.
2. Speaking of the work, I find it unlikely that Sakurai would develop a new Super Smash Bros. in secret and in fewer than three years since finishing the Bayonetta DLC.
3. Nintendo is well aware of the tournament scene. Getting the series to its current and notably widely successful platform has to be a priority. A port is the path of least resistance.

Offline Order.RSS

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8385 on: February 22, 2018, 10:14:41 AM »
Maybe Doom guy will be in Smash Bros.

Honestly that'd be sick! I also hope we'll see Bomberman make an appearance, maybe we can convince Konami it'd mean a sales spike for Super Bomberman R? Also we need Rabbid Luigi from Ubisoft and maybe Shovel Knight? Would also be cool to see one of the SteamWorld characters show up, I bet Image & Form would be game. Last unexpected third party announcement: Chase McCain from Lego City Undercover.

I'd hope/expect to see some representation of Splatoon, ARMS, and maybe Rex from Xenoblade 2 as well.

Of course none of these would mean anything so long as Ice Climbers don't return!!! :@

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8386 on: February 22, 2018, 10:20:48 AM »
Adrock hits it on the head. The Smash 4 tournament scene has just lost one of its major players in ZeRo and the meta is very Bayonetta-heavy as of right now. The best thing they could do to cause a resurgence in the game’s popularity and viewership is add Ice Climbers, Wolf, etc to offer more matchups for Bayonetta to deal with- and likely give her a few nerfs to encourage more matchup diversity.

Not saying I think Bayonetta is broken, but her playstyle is vastly different from any other character and that is causing a lot of toxicity in the community as of late.

However, hoping for new fighters, especially from the Western/indie scene, is pretty fruitless.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8387 on: February 22, 2018, 12:33:25 PM »
2. Speaking of the work, I find it unlikely that Sakurai would develop a new Super Smash Bros. in secret and in fewer than three years since finishing the Bayonetta DLC.

Counterpoint: Sakurai is a madman.

But I think an enhanced port is definitely the way they'd go.  The 3DS stages (and Smash Run?) in HD would feel like a significant add to the Wii U game.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8388 on: February 22, 2018, 01:37:30 PM »
If we get a Smash this year, it will be a port. If it won't come until 2019, then odds are it is a new title.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8389 on: February 22, 2018, 02:38:32 PM »
2. Speaking of the work, I find it unlikely that Sakurai would develop a new Super Smash Bros. in secret and in fewer than three years since finishing the Bayonetta DLC.

You know maybe it was something very calculated. I've read in multiple interviews that Sakurai feels he has to constantly be careful of what he says because of the frenzy it causes to Smash hopefuls. Remember Kid Icarus Iwata asks? I know you guys remember. Sakurai keeps talking about whats up with Kid Icarus and Iwata keeps asking questions about Smash lol.

The way people unlike me hound him on Twitter about anything and everything he does wondering if its in relation to Smash must get tiresome.

I bet you more than anything he is enjoying this cool down moment because he can breath with only 10,000 Tweets a month instead of 10,000,000. The moment this game gets officially announced the hypening begins and what little home/social life he has once again ends.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8390 on: February 22, 2018, 09:19:17 PM »
Like Caterkiller already said earlier, it'll be like Splatoon 2 at least where even if it's made heavily reusing assets, it'll still be presented as a new game by Nintendo and have enough new content to be considered one, even if it'll be extremely similar to it's previous installment.  Even though the Wii U version of the last Smash only sold 5 million, the 3DS version sold over 9 million.  Considering they're 2 versions of the same game, combined they're already the best selling Smash Bros, which means Nintendo can not get away with just releasing an enhanced port.

The best selling game in the series before last gen was Brawl with over 13 million sold.  Even if everyone who bought the 3DS version also bought the Wii U version, which I find unlikely, that still leaves the majority of the Smash Bros fanbase getting their fix of the latest game last gen.  This isn't like the best selling Mario Kart doing over 37 million, so even though Mario Kart 8 did over 8 million on the Wii U, it still paled in comparison to the best selling in its series.

Basically an enhanced port of the Wii U version of Smash isn't going to cut it.  This isn't like Mario Kart or Donkey Kong who saw huge drops in their audience from the last gen, or Pokken which was a new IP released right at the end of a dead systems life.  Even if the majority of content from Smash Bros Wii U is just ported over, the game will still need a dozen new characters, tons of new stages and at least one new major mode to get the fanbase truly hyped.  At which point it's not really fair to call it an enhanced port anymore.

Plus I don't see why some think they wouldn't be able to get a new Smash Bros this year.  They made Smash Bros 3DS/Wii U in a little over 2 years since development started during Summer 2012 with that game, and since they wouldn't have to worry about making a 3DS version as well this time, they would have had more then enough time to create enough new content.  If the Splatoon team could create a sequel in only 1.5 years, I don't see why some doubt Sakurai and Namco could do the same in only 2 years, when they created 2 versions of the the last Smash Bros in the same amount of time.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8391 on: February 23, 2018, 10:23:28 AM »
Considering they're 2 versions of the same game, combined they're already the best selling Smash Bros, which means Nintendo can not get away with just releasing an enhanced port.
I disagree. Port or not, the series is bankable. A port would sell well; a brand new game may sell more. Either way, it's a win for Nintendo. People who post on video game message boards may be privy to the development history of the 3DS and Wii U games. I wonder how many people view them as "two versions of the same game." While they share content, the 3DS version is a severely stripped down experience missing features from previous installments played using a Circle Pad. Still pretty good, but let's call it how it is.

The Wii U game, the one used in tournaments with an audience Nintendo is increasingly paying more attention to, flat out performed worse. Nintendo spent significantly more resources on the version that sold significantly fewer copies. I'd imagine Nintendo wants more mileage out of that investment.

Quote
Plus I don't see why some think they wouldn't be able to get a new Smash Bros this year.  They made Smash Bros 3DS/Wii U in a little over 2 years since development started during Summer 2012 with that game, and since they wouldn't have to worry about making a 3DS version as well this time, they would have had more then enough time to create enough new content.
There's a lot to unwrap here.

It's physically possible for Sakurai and [insert developer here] to develop a new Super Smash Bros. in the time between when Bayonetta DLC released and the end of 2018 (as the rumor suggests). However, it doesn't seem particularly likely.

1. Sakurai left HAL Labs because he was tired of the expectation that sequels were inevitable and had to be asked to return to direct the next two installments (as an independent contractor) by Iwata who had the benefit of decades of friendship. For a brand new Super Smash Bros installment, we would have to assume that Sakurai, after completing two games he slaved over for three years to the detriment of his own health, was eager to jump back to work on a sequel at best only a few months later.

2. Aside from key people like Sakurai, it’s doubtful that the 3DS and Wii U versions were developed by the same people. Since the games were developed concurrently rather than one after the other, not creating a separate version doesn't reduce development time. There are no real shortcuts to the work that is required to make something new and more importantly, good. Creating one version only means fewer people would be hired/contracted. Budgetary restraints mean a company can’t hire/contract indefinitely for the purpose of significantly speeding up development time; it hires/contracts many people as it thinks it needs. Once the project ends, contractors are let go/not renewed which leads into the last point.

3. For a project as large as a new Super Smash Bros., someone would have noticed an influx of hiring/contracting regardless of who the developer is. With all the leaks from Wii U/3DS, I'm not convinced Nintendo could have kept this quiet for so long. A port, even with additional content, doesn't require nearly as many people.

To be clear, I'm not saying a brand new game can't happen by the end of 2018, but there's enough stacked against it. Personally, Nintendo has me by the wallet when it comes to Super Smash Bros. I'll buy anything so my opinion on the matter has no bearing on whether I want a port/new game more.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 11:27:40 AM by Adrock »

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8392 on: February 23, 2018, 11:54:49 AM »
Luigi Dude has a good point.  Wii U ports work because hardly anyone owned a Wii U.  But SSB is also a 3DS game.  That was a successful system and you can assume that a lot of Switch owners owned a 3DS.  Hell the Switch is essentially the 3DS' successor.  This also might make other Wii U/3DS multiplatform games like Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World and Hyrule Warriors a hard sell in porting.  Putting these games on the 3DS was already moving them to a more popular platform to get them noticed.

Offline Adrock

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8393 on: February 23, 2018, 12:09:32 PM »
This also might make other Wii U/3DS multiplatform games like Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World and Hyrule Warriors a hard sell in porting.  Putting these games on the 3DS was already moving them to a more popular platform to get them noticed.
Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition is already scheduled for a Spring 2018 release on Switch so there goes that idea.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8394 on: February 23, 2018, 01:16:14 PM »
I also fear that if Nintendo goes with ports for this and Mario Kart that we may not get a proper new release for those series on the Switch.  We don't get multiple games in those series for one platform.  Are we going to get a Mario Kart 9 on the Switch or does the MK8 port "count"?
That's what bums me out too. I'm ready for a Mario Kart 9, but it's probably years away at minimum.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8395 on: February 23, 2018, 01:29:02 PM »
This also might make other Wii U/3DS multiplatform games like Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World and Hyrule Warriors a hard sell in porting.  Putting these games on the 3DS was already moving them to a more popular platform to get them noticed.
Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition is already scheduled for a Spring 2018 release on Switch so there goes that idea.

I think the question is whether the game would see expanded success by being on the more popular home console, or if the return on the Switch port would be diminished because of the 3DS port.  Essentially, has Nintendo already reached the game's potential audience by porting it once already?

I would argue in the case of Smash, the answer is probably no.  There's too much demand for that game on Switch. I don't about Hyrule Warriors, but without looking at the sales number for the previous versions, I think the demand for the Switch version won't be hurt significantly by the 3DS version having existed.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8396 on: February 23, 2018, 01:47:04 PM »
Doesn't the 3DS version of Hyrule Warriors run extremely poorly without the NEW 3DS model? That would limit its appeal on 3DS. It's one reason why I didn't get that version and am waiting for the Switch version instead.



Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8397 on: February 23, 2018, 02:10:40 PM »
Doesn't the 3DS version of Hyrule Warriors run extremely poorly without the NEW 3DS model? That would limit its appeal on 3DS. It's one reason why I didn't get that version and am waiting for the Switch version instead.

Yeah here's a comparison of the different versions.


So even though it was technically ported to the 3DS, I can see why Nintendo might feel the 3DS port was hurt because of how poorly the game ran on the non-New models which make up the majority of the 3DS userbase.  The Switch will be a more popular system that can properly play the game along with all that extra content, which I can see why Nintendo would be willing to port it again.

That's why I think Hyrule Warriors is kind of a special case since even though the 3DS version has more content, the gameplay is heavily watered down.  For a series like Warriors, having less enemies and slower gameplay is kind of a big deal which is why even in Japan, the home console versions of these games have always outsold their handheld counterparts despite handhelds overall being way more popular.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8398 on: February 23, 2018, 02:48:37 PM »
The fact remains that Nintendo has been padding Switch’s release schedule with expanded ports of Wii U games, and one of those ports also has a 3DS version. To paraphrase Occam’s Razor, the simplest solution with the fewest assumptions is usually the right one. There isn’t enough known right now to say one way or another for certain. However, based on Nintendo’s own behavior this generation, there’s very little reason to believe a Super Smash Bros. released on Switch by the end of this year would be a new game.

Offline pokepal148

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Re: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*
« Reply #8399 on: February 23, 2018, 04:05:22 PM »
There is no way they wouldn't have the Smash Bros. Hype machine rolling by now if there was a new game coming.