Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 03:42:29 AM
Title: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 03:42:29 AM
PlayStation Move (click for larger version) (http://i43.tinypic.com/5kr4mh.png) (http://i43.tinypic.com/5kr4mh.png) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- aka Sonymote (http://i34.tinypic.com/18kyfp.jpg)
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2q8dp5j.png)
And RE5 "Alternate Version"
Quote
1:55 Layden has a motion controller in hand. 1:55 A dozen photographers just bumrushed the stage. 1:55 Some guy's flash just blinded me. 1:56
Sony's Shuhei Yoshida is out. 1:56 Motion controller is coming in 2010. 1:56 Spring, apparently. 1:57 Jun Takeuchi's out to show off something. 1:57 Really? 1:57 Capcom's got some plans for motion control, perhaps? 1:58 The director of Lost Planet and RE5 is out, and he's saying "Biohazard." 1:58 RE5 with motion controls. 1:58 Looks like the normal game with a targeting reticule in the middle of the screen. 1:59
I can't help but to think of RE4: Wii Edition in HD. 1:59 Which, by all accounts, was pretty awesome. 1:59 It's cursor-controlled. 1:59 The player is using the Dual Shock with one hand, and controlling motion with the wand. 2:00 So he's shooting with triggers, and doing movements and looking with the motion sensor. 2:00 Wow, he shot a Majini in the crotch several times. 2:00 Majini attacks Chris. 2:00 He waves the wand to shake it off. 2:01 Adventure's over. 2:01 With the motion sensor, you can adjust gameplay to your own preference. 2:02 Looks like next year, there's an RE5: Alternate Edition coming out with the launch of the motion controller in Spring. 2:02
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on September 24, 2009, 04:13:31 AM
the ice cream cone controller, so it works like a wiimote backwards? The button set up makes a lot of sense though.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 04:27:41 AM
You think the button set-up makes sense?
I would have preferred they just do what we all know they intended to do (http://i35.tinypic.com/eqw31l.jpg)
It's not quite that but almost. Probably as close as they could get without violating any patents.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on September 24, 2009, 04:34:38 AM
could use the start select and home buttons though. It may be a rip-off of the wii-mote, but at least there will be some good looking games with motion control :P Your probably right about the patent issue. Not made to play classic games though, then again the regular ps controller is basically a modified snes controller
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 04:36:24 AM
Another pic. also added to the OP (http://i35.tinypic.com/2qtaj69.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on September 24, 2009, 04:40:40 AM
baby wants its rattle? I Scream you scream, we all scream for ice cream!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 04:49:05 AM
& it doubles as a low level flash light.
(http://i35.tinypic.com/11jcjm0.jpg)
Quote from: Official PR
TOKYO, Sept. 24 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) today announced that it will release a new Motion Controller (unofficial name) for PlayStation(R)3 (PS3(R)) computer entertainment system in Spring 2010. The new controller, equipped with high-precision, highly accurate motion sensors, can deliver a whole new entertainment experience on PS3 when combined together with the PlayStation(R)Eye camera(*1). Capable of recognizing and tracking a user's face and voice as well as body motion, PlayStation Eye can also output the player's image onto the TV screen. SCE will vigorously promote the expansion of this new experience only possible on the PS3 platform.
The newly announced Motion Controller is equipped with two motion sensors, three axes gyroscope and three axes accelerometer that can detect the controller's angle and movement held in the user's hand. Together with the PlayStation Eye camera for PS3 which can accurately track the absolute position of the controller, the controller can detect the natural and intuitive movement of the hand and reflect the precise movement on to the game. The sphere placed on the top of the controller is not only used to track the absolute position but can also give visual feedback to users by changing the colors or the illuminating patterns of the sphere. Furthermore, the new controller is also equipped with a rumble feature, familiar to the PlayStation(R) DUALSHOCK(R) series controller, delivering an immersive gaming experience to users.
Further expanding the new experience on PS3, SCE Worldwide Studios will deliver many exciting software titles for the Motion Controller in 2010(*2). SCE, with strong support from software developers and publishers, will deploy various measures to enhance the software title line-up for the new Motion Controller and vigorously promote the PS3 platform.
* Motion Controller is a tentative name.
*1 Users will need to use the PlayStation Eye camera to enjoy Motion Controller on PS3.
*2 Please see below for software titles to be released in 2010.
Product Outline
Motion Controller (Tentative)
Product name Motion Controller (tentative)
Release date Spring 2010
Recommended Retail Price To be decided.
Key Features -- Three axes gyroscope, three axes accelerometer -- Bluetooth(R) 2.0 -- Lithium-Ion rechargeable internal battery
Software Titles for Motion Controller from SCE Worldwide Studios(*1)
(2010 release, includes both Motion Controller dedicated and compatible titles)
Title name ---------- Ape Escape (Working Title) Echochrome 2 (Working Title) Eccentric Slider (Working Title) Sing and Draw (Working Title) Champions of Time (Working Title) Motion Party (Working Title) The Shoot (Working Title) Tower (Working Title) PAIN(*2) Flower(*2) Hustle Kings(*2) High Velocity Bowling(*2) EyePet(*2)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 24, 2009, 06:07:36 AM
I am not impressed. Sorry Sony, but it looks like ****. It may play great, and I hope it does, but it looks dumb...and that will be a selling point against it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on September 24, 2009, 08:28:52 AM
Nintendo succeeds its saving throw (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/sony-counterattacks-disruptive-shields-up/).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on September 24, 2009, 08:45:41 AM
It really does look like some high-tech ice cream... lol The thought of using the dualshock in one hand to control movement in RE5 but holding a completely seperate and detached remote in the other to control the reticule sounds ridiculous to me. The nunchuck is a little bare control wise but at least its comfortable to hold in one hand with the wiimote in the other. I just can't imagine that set-up being as comfortable as a wiimote+'chuck.
Speaking of RE5:AE... what are the chances of a low-def port of THAT version? ;) lol
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on September 24, 2009, 09:25:04 AM
I wouldn't say the Nunchuk is bare, it has a stick and two shoulder buttons, pretty much like the left side of any controller if you're not using the d-pad (and that's not commonly used and when it is you often trigger it with the right hand).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on September 24, 2009, 09:45:13 AM
I wouldn't say the Nunchuk is bare, it has a stick and two shoulder buttons, pretty much like the left side of any controller if you're not using the d-pad (and that's not commonly used and when it is you often trigger it with the right hand).
You know I actually agree with you and I wanted to change my post but I got sidetracked here at work and just hit the 'post' button to get the message in already. My only real complaint about the nunchuk is the Z button, I wish it was more like the L trigger on the GC controller. Hell it wouldnt even have to be analoge, i just love the concave shape of it, it was so comfortable to hold.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on September 24, 2009, 09:50:30 AM
Quote
I wouldn't say the Nunchuk is bare, it has a stick and two shoulder buttons, pretty much like the left side of any controller if you're not using the d-pad (and that's not commonly used and when it is you often trigger it with the right hand).
Yeah, when you actually hold the left side of the PS controller like they retardedly want you to do for RE5, you basically only have access to like, three buttons, counting the moronic idea of actually pressing the analog stick.
Edit: good gravy that controller is hideous.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on September 24, 2009, 10:26:28 AM
I wouldn't say the Nunchuk is bare, it has a stick and two shoulder buttons, pretty much like the left side of any controller if you're not using the d-pad (and that's not commonly used and when it is you often trigger it with the right hand).
Yeah, when you actually hold the left side of the PS controller like they retardedly want you to do for RE5, you basically only have access to like, three buttons, counting the moronic idea of actually pressing the analog stick.
Edit: good gravy that controller is hideous.
I've always hated that L/R 3 or whatever it was called. I don't remember if it was used in the demo version of RE5 I played at a friends house, but when we played one of those WWII games, I had to click the left stick in while pushing forward to run.. wtf? It's the most uncomfortable feeling having to push up and put the pressure inward as well. This was on a 360 though, and at least the stick has a concave top.. does the ps3 dualshock still use the same nubs from the original? I don't even wanna know how much more uncomfortable that'd be..
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caliban on September 24, 2009, 11:13:30 AM
I will give the PS3 wand a chance just like a gave the Wii remote the exact same opportunity.
I've always hated that L/R 3 or whatever it was called. I don't remember if it was used in the demo version of RE5 I played at a friends house, but when we played one of those WWII games, I had to click the left stick in while pushing forward to run.. wtf? It's the most uncomfortable feeling having to push up and put the pressure inward as well. This was on a 360 though, and at least the stick has a concave top.. does the ps3 dualshock still use the same nubs from the original? I don't even wanna know how much more uncomfortable that'd be...
The controller's design isn't at fault, it all depends if any game allows you to customize the control scheme, and that would be the developers responsibility.
I do agree with you that the L3/R3 is rather uncomfortable, sometimes aggravating.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 24, 2009, 11:25:54 AM
Japanese Men announced their attempt at BBC
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on September 24, 2009, 12:10:03 PM
I wouldn't say the Nunchuk is bare, it has a stick and two shoulder buttons, pretty much like the left side of any controller if you're not using the d-pad (and that's not commonly used and when it is you often trigger it with the right hand).
Yeah, when you actually hold the left side of the PS controller like they retardedly want you to do for RE5, you basically only have access to like, three buttons, counting the moronic idea of actually pressing the analog stick.
Edit: good gravy that controller is hideous.
I've always hated that L/R 3 or whatever it was called. I don't remember if it was used in the demo version of RE5 I played at a friends house, but when we played one of those WWII games, I had to click the left stick in while pushing forward to run.. wtf? It's the most uncomfortable feeling having to push up and put the pressure inward as well. This was on a 360 though, and at least the stick has a concave top.. does the ps3 dualshock still use the same nubs from the original? I don't even wanna know how much more uncomfortable that'd be..
The only game with that mechanic I played was Section 8 but in that you clicked the stick first, then pushed forward. Still pretty annoying to do every time you stopped for something.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on September 24, 2009, 12:23:21 PM
It's been a while since I was over my friends house and played the game I was talking about (it was one of those WWII shooters, the one that had the zombie minigame..) so I might not be 100% sure of this, but I remember havign to press the stick in AND push forward; in other words, pressing it in once wasn't like an "on" switch for run, it had to be held down the way you hold B down to run in SMB. Very annoying.
The first game I ever played that required a click of the control stick was Ape Escape on ps1. That was SUPER annoying because the stick was so flimsy that pressing it in made me push the stick in any given direction which made my character perform some other actions, perhaps movement? I can't remember it was so long ago.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2009, 12:33:05 PM
I really cannot imagine holding a dual shock in your left hand being a good solution, it could get cumbersome, especially since the dual shock weighs quite a bit more then the nunchuck. Why doesn't Sony just release a nunchuck like attachment?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
I'm sure some 3rd party will beat them to it, but Sony was probably really limited on what they could do since Nintendo probably patented everything they could towards their own implementation on wiimote/nunchuck.
Isn't the PS3 controller exactly the same size as the PS2 controller? because that thing is uncomfortable for me to hold in 2 hands, so I couldn't imagine trying to do in in just one while waving a stick around in the other.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 24, 2009, 12:44:12 PM
Holding a dual shock with two hands is uncomfortable enough.
Edit: Screw you Black, now I need to add more content to my post. Uhh...the button layout looks like ****. I don't particularly care that the entire thing looks stupid, it's not like I'm trying to impress any chicks with my mad skills....but seriously those buttons combined with half a dual shock in the other hand sounds painful. Honestly it sounds more like a demonstration at a board meeting than a final product. Sony needs to think things through a bit more.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2009, 12:45:58 PM
I'm sure some 3rd party will beat them to it, but Sony was probably really limited on what they could do since Nintendo probably patented everything they could towards their own implementation on wiimote/nunchuck.
Isn't the PS3 controller exactly the same size as the PS2 controller? because that thing is uncomfortable for me to hold in 2 hands, so I couldn't imagine trying to do in in just one while waving a stick around in the other.
Yeah it sure is. I'm sure if Sony was innovative, they could have came up with a better solution, but that is probably asking way too much.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on September 24, 2009, 12:50:27 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait! Are you telling me that some games will require you to hold the normal controller in the left hand and the wand in the other? That has to be THE most rediculuous thing I have EVER herd!
EDIT: I'm still trying to understand the resident evil player. Does the wand connect to the classic controller in some way? I mean it just sounds insanely awkward.
This is how I imagine it, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm playing lets say.... Super Mario Sunshine ok, the gamecube controller is in my left hand, I only have access to the trigger, stick and pad. The wii remote is in my right hand, while there is heavy controller not being used in the middle?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2009, 12:55:40 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait! Are you telling me that some games will require you to hold the normal controller in the left hand and the wand in the other? That has to be THE most rediculuous thing I have EVER herd!
Yep, in fact that is how you play RE5. I think it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that expecting Sony to do much innovating is a pipe dream. They could have even went the Nyko route who finally got around Nintendo's patent, but nooo, let's make the player hold a dual shock in the left hand, brilliant!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on September 24, 2009, 12:58:43 PM
I see two big problems. One is that there appears to be no wrist strap, Nintendo was forced to strengthen theirs. This could just not be there for the demo though. The other is that the light at the end seems so unprotected. I have accidently hit my wii remotes on a ton of stuff when I am sitting down or stepped a tiny bit too far back and hit the wall in my bowling backswiing. The controller was tough and the condom makes it invincible but a plastic bulb that actually is required to light up and work seems like it is going to go down fast.
I see one travesty. They expect you to hold the dual shock and the magic wand at the same time. Holding the dual shock in one hand, no matter how I am supposed to do it will be the worst experience ever.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 01:03:20 PM
I have a couple of questions
How much does a PSEye cost right now? Will they bundle it with the sonybulb?
will Sonybulbs replace lighters at concerts now for safety regulations? Should I keep one in my emergency kit to both help illuminate a room and help rescuers find me quickly?
Are they gonna have one that does blacklight? People are most assuredly gonna stick this thing where is doesn't belong..... like in their mouth(or any other hole it'll fit in), It's not gonna electrocute you if you do that is it? can you buy replacement bulbs.... that come in different shapes and colors?
Is the bulb made from plastic? Is there a wrist strap or does this thing comes with thing? That's another feature they should probably steal from Nintendo if the wiimote TV destruction fiasco is anything to learn from.
Last but not least, Is this what Lucas Arts has been waiting for? To make a lightsaber attachment to the Sonybulb then release a lightsaber game that now has a light up lightsaber?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on September 24, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
Personally, the motion controller looks just as stupid to me as Nintendo's Wiimote but that list of games is pathetic. Absolutely nothing of interest.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2009, 01:11:40 PM
Personally, the motion controller looks just as stupid to me as Nintendo's Wiimote but that list of games is pathetic. Absolutely nothing of interest.
A plastic bulb on the end makes it look much worse then the Wiimote. Not that i care much for cosmetics, but the Wiimote seems to be laid out better then this.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on September 24, 2009, 01:35:48 PM
What do the sony die hard fans think of this?
I gave Nintendo a chance because for one the wiimote looks cool, and I understood right off the bat how normal games could work. But this bulbmote looks like a big piece of crap! style wise at least. And the functionality of using it and a duel shock? the thought sickens me.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 01:38:07 PM
Whats unintuitive and uncomfortable about this?
(http://i38.tinypic.com/22hsw0.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on September 24, 2009, 01:41:48 PM
I can honestly say that I do wish the Wii had better graphical capabilities (well if more things looked like galaxy and resort i'd be fine) but my friends, this is truely the time to be laughing at your anti nintendo friends who have undoubtedly laughed at you for so many years.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on September 24, 2009, 01:43:30 PM
I gave Nintendo a chance because for one the wiimote looks cool, and I understood right off the bat how normal games could work. But this bulbmote looks like a big piece of crap! style wise at least. And the functionality of using it and a duel shock? the thought sickens me.
Are there any "die hard" Sony fans here, though? I mean, I love my PS3 but that doesn't mean I'm a fan of everything they do. I figure it's the same with most people here. Anyway, I don't see this idea of dual-wielding the dualshock and motion controller working at all. The only reason the nunchuck works is because it's small, but the dualshock is a two-handed controller.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2009, 01:45:26 PM
I gave Nintendo a chance because for one the wiimote looks cool, and I understood right off the bat how normal games could work. But this bulbmote looks like a big piece of crap! style wise at least. And the functionality of using it and a duel shock? the thought sickens me.
Are there any "die hard" Sony fans here, though? I mean, I love my PS3 but that doesn't mean I'm a fan of everything they do. I figure it's the same with most people here. Anyway, I don't see this idea of dual-wielding the dualshock and motion controller working at all. The only reason the nunchuck works is because it's small, but the dualshock is a two-handed controller.
::Paging Lindy Luthor::
It is funny but I thought the Sony motion controller had more promise then Natal because it is, well, a controller, but by forcing you to hold the dual shock in some games I'm no longer sure.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 01:47:56 PM
It would have been perfect for Sony if they had gone with that rumored splittable controller back before they launched the PS3. Or when they decided to release the DS3. It's actually not too late to release a DS3.5 Sony.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on September 24, 2009, 02:33:24 PM
Here is a response from one of the IGN PS3 fans.
"10:00: RE5 with motion controls looks just like the standard game, but there's a cursor on screen at all times reflecting your motion control movements. "You play with one hand holding the wand and one hand holding the standard Dual Shock."
The stupidest thing I've ever read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who the F***k is going to want to hold a controller in one hand and the motion wand in the other?! NO ONE! WTF are people thinking nowadays!? I hate Nintendo! The Wii is the WORST thing that has happened to the Video Game industry! They have success and now everyone tries to jump on board! I hate it! "
I hope no one likes it!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 02:46:17 PM
Lets take a trip back into Sony past.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbSzmRt7HhQ&feature=player_embedded This one made it back to the future
I gave Nintendo a chance because for one the wiimote looks cool, and I understood right off the bat how normal games could work. But this bulbmote looks like a big piece of crap! style wise at least. And the functionality of using it and a duel shock? the thought sickens me.
Are there any "die hard" Sony fans here, though? I mean, I love my PS3 but that doesn't mean I'm a fan of everything they do. I figure it's the same with most people here. Anyway, I don't see this idea of dual-wielding the dualshock and motion controller working at all. The only reason the nunchuck works is because it's small, but the dualshock is a two-handed controller.
Die-hard Sony fan=Anyone who doesn't think the idea of holding a Dual Shock in one hand while also holding the wand is a horrible idea.
Am I alone in thinking the wand looks like a prop from the original 1960s Star Trek?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 03:29:42 PM
I have another question. Does it vibrate? cause it looks like a personal vibrator massager.
edit: More Pics of the Sony Disco Stick
(http://i35.tinypic.com/35lf689.jpg)
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2wc1pgj.jpg) Looks like it has a wrist strap. That's one question answered.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 24, 2009, 03:48:37 PM
I get a feeling this thing is going to be a dud.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on September 24, 2009, 04:05:11 PM
I have another question. Does it vibrate? cause it looks like a personal vibrator massager.
edit: More Pics of the Sony Disco Stick
(http://i35.tinypic.com/35lf689.jpg)
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2wc1pgj.jpg) Looks like it has a wrist strap. That's one question answered.
Wrist strap? I see no wrist-strap. The demonstrator looks like he's wearing a fashionable leather wristband you'd find at Pacsun or whatever.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on September 24, 2009, 04:19:55 PM
Quote
The thought of using the dualshock in one hand to control movement in RE5 but holding a completely seperate and detached remote in the other to control the reticule sounds ridiculous to me.
This sounds a lot like really early DS games... and it sounds like it will suck like really early DS games.
It looks pretty silly with that bulb on top. But what truly matters I suppose is how well it works and I have more optimism for this than Natal. The thing is I don't expect the sort of people that would be embarrassed to use this to be the target market. Judging by how third parties treat the Wii, motion support is regarded as a casual gamer gimmick. The same third party trash that is made for the Wii will likely be made for the PS3 as well. And if it's successful with casuals I figure Sony will be thrilled. That's probably all they're aiming this at.
One good thing about this though is that it appears to be for the PS3. If Sony was following the typical console lifecycle 2010 would be about the time to seriously plan for the PS4. But they're not doing that so maybe they're just going to keep the PS3 going, now that it's affordable, but with this new controller to match the Wii. As a PS3 owner I'm happy about that since my console will get more years out of it. And realitistically there is no reason to go to another gen.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 24, 2009, 04:21:27 PM
he's not wearing it, it's dangling from the Disco Stick
I tried to edit the pic to show you, but tinypic is not cooperating with me.
edit: (http://i34.tinypic.com/29f9r38.jpg)
I'm not sure that's attached to the disco stick, looks more like a microphone attached to his clothes to me. The first of the two pictures doesn't include that part.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 25, 2009, 12:18:10 PM
What kind of Condom Unit will house this device?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on September 25, 2009, 12:19:06 PM
The people in those pics look so depressed to be on stage.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 25, 2009, 01:20:55 PM
he's not wearing it, it's dangling from the Disco Stick
I tried to edit the pic to show you, but tinypic is not cooperating with me.
edit: (http://i34.tinypic.com/29f9r38.jpg)
I'm not sure that's attached to the disco stick, looks more like a microphone attached to his clothes to me. The first of the two pictures doesn't include that part.
Here is a different angle of the same guy; (http://i37.tinypic.com/16i76zn.jpg)
it's dangling from the glow stick
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on September 25, 2009, 02:34:54 PM
he's not wearing it, it's dangling from the Disco Stick
I tried to edit the pic to show you, but tinypic is not cooperating with me.
edit: (http://i34.tinypic.com/29f9r38.jpg)
I'm not sure that's attached to the disco stick, looks more like a microphone attached to his clothes to me. The first of the two pictures doesn't include that part.
Thanks for clarifying, sorta, but I wasn't looking anywhere near the dudes crotch aside from the obvious wrist location... perv.
Pre-post edit: Wow I was going to just post this reply without reading the third page but I'm glad i did. How hard are you looking at that dudes dick BnM?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 25, 2009, 03:09:50 PM
I think he prefers "that" Sony Wand. Maybe its bulb lights up, too?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 25, 2009, 03:39:54 PM
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2ng7v2g.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Urkel on September 25, 2009, 06:28:32 PM
By the way, thread title should say Red Ocean.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 25, 2009, 06:30:12 PM
But Sony doesn't know that. They think they're finally swimming in the same fish tank as Nintendo.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 25, 2009, 06:44:58 PM
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 25, 2009, 09:48:11 PM
I have no idea why it was removed.
I whited out the entire picture except for the area that showed the wrist strap. then I drew a big fat black arrow that might have resembled a penis since that is what you apparently had on your mind.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on September 25, 2009, 10:31:07 PM
with the description "big fat cock" it sounds like its what was on YOUR mind.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: WuTangTurtle on September 26, 2009, 05:20:52 AM
Are we sure that they aren't just using the Dualshock3 to demo due to an unfinished 2nd control device?
If they don't make some other controller device like the nunchuk then its gonna fail. I just tried holding a wii mote and a Dualshock3 together....it doesn't work very well.
If I'm sitting down and i can rest the Dualshock3, then its not that bad. However standing and using both is a bit trickier. I found myself wanting to hold the Dualshock3 at an angle so the weight doesn't anchor my hand downwards. This causes my ability to use the analog stick to be very inaccurate and just feels completely awful. I also seemed to have to re-grip the controller a couple times after pressing buttons and such.
This reminded me of when trying to replicate the wii mote would play like before the Wii came out ;D
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on September 26, 2009, 06:32:59 AM
But Sony doesn't know that. They think they're finally swimming in the same fish tank as Nintendo.
The fish tank would be red either way.
All Sony did was demo some hardware, they haven't released anything to turn the water from Blue to Red yet. It would only become Red if Glow Stick & Natal start to gain some traction, otherwise Nintendo still sails in Ocean Blue waters.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Morari on September 26, 2009, 09:57:42 PM
I just tried holding a wii mote and a Dualshock3 together....it doesn't work very well.
Have you ever tried holding just a Dual Shock controller alone? It doesn't work very well in that regard either.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on September 27, 2009, 12:33:03 AM
Sony needs to call this controller "Revolution" and in every PR interview, they need to act like they never heard of the Wii and that motion controllers were their idea.
No one should take this seriously. It's going to fail. You can blame the asinine DS3+wand set up (though I read somewhere that it's only the "cheapest solution" and that they're planning a nunchuk) or the glowing bulb, but the fact remains that the wand and camera are extras. The Wii remote is successful because it's the entire point of the console. On top of that, when it launches, it's over 3 years too late.
I like my PS3, but TGS 2009 is just utter fail for Sony. No UMD conversion for PSP Go? What the hell? So, on top of some retailers flat out refusing to stock it, Sony just gave every PSP owner another reason not to care. Right....
I like my PS3, but TGS 2009 is just utter fail for Sony. No UMD conversion for PSP Go? What the hell? So, on top of some retailers flat out refusing to stock it, Sony just gave every PSP owner another reason not to care. Right....
I wouldn't call the entire TGS 2009 a fail for them. I'm more excited for the next wave of JRPGs than I have been in years, especially with FF XIII on the horizon. But yeah, if I hadn't seen it for myself I'd never have believed Sony could f-up a system launch even more than they did the PS3. Well, their handling of the PSP Go certainly set a new standard in that regard. And right now the only thing that interests me about the upcoming wave of PS3 motion controlled games is this rehash of RE5 that's going to have a new section of gameplay devoted to the only aspect of RE5 that felt anything like a Resident Evil game: the Spencer mansion flashback. Other than that, Sony's wand can go jump in a lake...or shall I say "Blue Ocean"? Sony needed to show off must-have games that use motion control and they failed, utterly.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on September 27, 2009, 01:43:10 AM
even though the ice cream cone looks stupid, it seems from that old test video that its going to work pretty well. My brother bought this damn card game for his ps3 camera, and while it was really cool it sucked.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 27, 2009, 03:16:49 AM
Here is another blast from the past http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3171032
I wonder what happened to that?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on September 27, 2009, 06:01:35 AM
Are we sure that they aren't just using the Dualshock3 to demo due to an unfinished 2nd control device?
I read somewhere (can't recall where) that Sony is working on a Nunchuk-type attachment. It didn't seem like they knew for sure if they would release it or just force people to use the regular controller, but it would be a definite option regardless.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on September 28, 2009, 10:44:47 PM
It might end up being shaped like a man-wang.
Just what I always wanted, Sony inventing a new meme for us to mock.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on September 29, 2009, 06:25:20 PM
i think they realized the error of their ways when they decided on the ice-cream cone.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 09, 2009, 11:09:59 AM
I had something like this when I was a kid, when I went trick or treating. It helped me see in the dark, and helped cars and stuff to see me... the only difference was the ball thing on the end was shaped like a pumpkin on mine.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 09, 2009, 11:58:30 AM
I hope that company patented the design, but we know they won't sue for damages until well after Sony launches it ;)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 16, 2009, 03:42:34 AM
Nintendo better watch it's back. Sony says that Wii won't be able to compete with GEM in family, sports and shooter games when it comes to motion controls...
GP: What kinds of upcoming PS3 titles will benefit from motion control?
Koller: It's a pretty seamless toolset that's going to accent gameplay substantially. In terms of the best types of games, I'd say that right now we're looking a real wide variety of genres that can utilize the technology. I think the areas that are going to be really critical to our success will be family games, as well as shooters and sports games. Those are going to be the areas that will really define success, because they're areas that quite honestly, I think Project Natal and the Wii are going to have trouble matching, from a differentiation standpoint. We look at motion control as being that much more than what exists on the market. The Holy Grail of gaming is placing you as a consumer into the game physically. When we provide further details, people will see exactly where we're going, not only from a technological standpoint on the hardware, but also where the gameplay is transitioning. It's going to be a really exciting launch.
Oh Sony..... Nintendo owns 2/3 of what you just said they'll "have trouble matching" and have owned it for 3 going on 4 years now.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 16, 2009, 03:59:49 AM
Nintendo better watch it's back. Sony says that Wii won't be able to compete with GEM in family, sports and shooter games when it comes to motion controls...
GP: What kinds of upcoming PS3 titles will benefit from motion control?
Koller: It's a pretty seamless toolset that's going to accent gameplay substantially. In terms of the best types of games, I'd say that right now we're looking a real wide variety of genres that can utilize the technology. I think the areas that are going to be really critical to our success will be family games, as well as shooters and sports games. Those are going to be the areas that will really define success, because they're areas that quite honestly, I think Project Natal and the Wii are going to have trouble matching, from a differentiation standpoint. We look at motion control as being that much more than what exists on the market. The Holy Grail of gaming is placing you as a consumer into the game physically. When we provide further details, people will see exactly where we're going, not only from a technological standpoint on the hardware, but also where the gameplay is transitioning. It's going to be a really exciting launch.
Oh Sony..... Nintendo owns 2/3 of what you just said they'll "have trouble matching" and have owned it for 3 going on 4 years now.
Yeah, really...Sony, if you want to carve your own niche in motion control gaming, that's fine but carve it in niches that the Wii is historically bad at like 3rd person Adventure games. Going after family games is a waste of time at this point, and Nintendo's going to have an absolute lock on sports games as well once Wii Motion + hits total saturation. They can probably make good ground in shooters since more of those companies are interested in the PS3 than the Wii, though.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on December 16, 2009, 10:46:27 AM
What do you expect them to say? It'll look silly with mediocre controls? Just like Nitendo did before the Wii came out, Sony too will talk of things the remote won't really be able to pull off.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 16, 2009, 11:00:31 AM
Nintendo could counter this be bundling M+ with the consoles, or better yet create a new model of the wiimote with M+ built into it by default. I'm sure this Sony troll might be right about their controller being better than a vanilla wiimote, but he may not be taking M+ into consideration.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 16, 2009, 02:33:11 PM
I think Sony talking about "better" shows that they're still playing the wrong game. This isn't about better, it's not about tech. It's about the games and as long as the controller can be used for games people really want they succeed. I don't think Sony is motivated to extend the use of GEM beyond what the PS3 already does. They won't have Wii _____ style killer apps, they'll only have FPSes with motion controls and some minigame collections that the third parties make for "retarded casuals" (third parties can't get expanded audience games right on the Wii, there's no way they'd magically pull it off on the PS3).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 16, 2009, 02:51:58 PM
I really think Sony will capitalize on FPS & TPS using GEM. It really is a missed opportunity by not only Nintendo but especially by 3rd party developers.
Just think about how much better some games could have been (grafx aside) with a Wii version RE5 - Capcom Deadspace - EA GTAIV - Take 2 MW2 - Activision Lost Planet - Capcom and countless other games that aren't coming to mind at the moment.
Sad thing is, as soon as GEM drops, you will all of a sudden see a bunch of these types of games getting released for it, and the only reason it didn't happen before hand is because 3rd parties couldn't blow way past the necessary budget just to add phenomenal graphics and effects.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 16, 2009, 03:00:21 PM
The alternative theory is that third parties are afraid of the Wii because it threatens the game industry's current development with its very limited DLC support, lower graphics capabilities (so you can't make that your only selling point which FPSes tend to do) and lower game prices (50€ for a new Nintendo game vs 70€ for a new HD game).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 16, 2009, 05:07:48 PM
Going after the same market as Nintendo with motion control is stupid. Nintendo already has that locked up. Sony would have to do the same job significantly better to steal that market from Nintendo. They can't just be equal or a little bit better to get people to jump ship.
What is the common negative stereotype reagrding the Wii? That it's the casual console for wimps and grandmas. That's not a flattering image. So why not use that to your advantage? Nintendo is kind of dropping the ball in regards to using the remote in a way that pleases "real" gamers. So wouldn't it make sense to be the company that does? Part of the whole advantage that the PS3 will have once it has this is that it has motion control AND HD graphics. It will do everything the Wii can (in theory) plus MORE. So while Nintendo is making glorified mini-game collections with N64 level graphics use that advantage and show the world what motion control can REALLY be used for. Preying on Nintendo's outright, well, wimpiness was a strong marketing tool in helping the PS1 and 2 crush Nintendo.
Though there is a big assumption here in that for Sony to do this they actually have to deliver the goods. They just plain might be unable to come up with anything to use motion control beyond what Nintendo is already doing. I would generally consider Nintendo to be better at busting out games that put the rest of the industry to shame. But ideally I think that's the winning strategy. Prey on the Wii's weaknesses (Wiiknesses?) and make Wii Sports look like a half-assed mini-game collection.
Though I suppose Sony might feel they have the core market locked up and the only way to compete is to steal the casuals away. Being the alternative to the Wii is kind of what the have right now (or more specifically what MS has).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 17, 2009, 05:17:49 AM
No, aiming GEM at the core would mean death for Sony. Nintendo is disrupting the market, they are slowly creeping upmarket. If Sony retreats from that or even worse, responds with cramming (throwing the disruptive innovation in with their sustaining ones) they will lose ground. Making the same thing but better will not be able to attack Nintendo's market while leaving Nintendo the option to become better themselves with significantly more expertise. Nintendo is the expert at motion controls currently, in that arena Sony will be the newbie, the small fry who doesn't stand a chance yet and if they try to go toe to toe with Nintendo they will lose. Motion controls have a much wider span of quality (in the customer's eyes) than graphics, dealbreaking graphics are rare but dealbreaking motion controls are common. Only dealbreakers really matter, anything else is something the customer is willing to overlook and I don't get the feeling that lower than 360 graphics are really a dealbreaker for many (after all they bought games for the PS2). That is why talking about business strategies is important, if you try to advise a company on a strategy you must know how all the actors in the market are behaving.
MS has already given up, they've announced that they'd rather go for the hardcore now.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 17, 2009, 12:24:49 PM
lol what a waste of an e3
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on December 17, 2009, 02:50:45 PM
they're still considering the core their base and mostly see the casual market as a side dish.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 17, 2009, 03:27:32 PM
It's probably smart of MS to stick with the core... assuming they actually make money doing so. There's nothing wrong with being the first choice with a specific target market. It'll give them to freedom to focus their efforts on that market and not risk losing everything by spreading themselves too thin.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 17, 2009, 04:31:50 PM
So Natal was a waste of marketing and decent 30sec on Colbert Report.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 17, 2009, 11:10:59 PM
It's probably smart of MS to stick with the core... assuming they actually make money doing so. There's nothing wrong with being the first choice with a specific target market. It'll give them to freedom to focus their efforts on that market and not risk losing everything by spreading themselves too thin.
Isn't that what Nintendo was doing until Sony usurped them? And now the same is happening to Sony? I agree that they should try to maintain a solid foundation, but if they remain stagnant they're asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on December 17, 2009, 11:55:13 PM
Trying to please the hardcore was what made Nintendo rush out Sunshine and Wind Waker, and turn Wind Waker 2 into Twilight Princess. That pretty much dug them into a hole.
It's probably smart of MS to stick with the core... assuming they actually make money doing so. There's nothing wrong with being the first choice with a specific target market. It'll give them to freedom to focus their efforts on that market and not risk losing everything by spreading themselves too thin.
Would it hurt them to make a console that doesn't destroy itself?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 18, 2009, 07:58:32 AM
It's probably smart of MS to stick with the core... assuming they actually make money doing so. There's nothing wrong with being the first choice with a specific target market. It'll give them to freedom to focus their efforts on that market and not risk losing everything by spreading themselves too thin.
The problem is that this creates an asymmetry of motivation that blunts any efforts to fight the disruption. They treat Natal as an extension of their core business with some casual appeal which doesn't work because some of the fundamentals of core gaming are what turns the expanded audience away (strong focus on stories, for example) while the core market couldn't care less about the motion controls the devs will tack onto their core games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 18, 2009, 08:08:24 AM
It's probably smart of MS to stick with the core... assuming they actually make money doing so. There's nothing wrong with being the first choice with a specific target market. It'll give them to freedom to focus their efforts on that market and not risk losing everything by spreading themselves too thin.
The problem is that this creates an asymmetry of motivation that blunts any efforts to fight the disruption. They treat Natal as an extension of their core business with some casual appeal which doesn't work because some of the fundamentals of core gaming are what turns the expanded audience away (strong focus on stories, for example) while the core market couldn't care less about the motion controls the devs will tack onto their core games.
IMO, Sony and Microsoft aren't targeting casuals so much as disillusioned Wii owners: people who bought a Wii because they bought into the dream of greater interaction with the games they already loved, and then discovered that Nintendo had very different plans. There's no point targeting the casuals exclusively: they only buy a couple games a year, and Nintendo has that market locked-up. I guess they figure if they can get them, great. If not, they can eat away at Nintendo's remaining core fanbase and their competitor's. And hey, someone has to try to advance core gaming through motion controls. Might as well be them.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 18, 2009, 12:30:08 PM
I have to agree with broodwars. A lot of Wii owners expected the wiimote would be used for sword swinging swash-buckling and shoot-em-up saving private ryan type games, but instead we get crap like Carnival Games, Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Wii Sports, Wii Music, and crap like that...
The motion controls COULD be exciting and hardcore, but Nintendo isn't aiming in that direction. It doesn't need to be either/or. You can have both hardcore games AND motion control at the same time, and we've seen that in games like RE4 where the controls work out great and in a few other games but it really isn't being harnessed as well as it should be.
And this is the threat that Sony poses to Nintendo with their GEM contoller. Sony might not be able to beat Nintendo in the casual arena, but Sony is getting games like Assassin's Creed, Batman Arkham Asylum, and so forth as exclusives. Now imagine these games with GEM support. It will look very bleak for the Wii when that happens. Sure, they grandmas and other casuals will still be doing their Wii Fit stuff on the Wii, but the 18-34 crowd who crave blood and gore might pack their bags.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 18, 2009, 12:44:02 PM
Quote
IMO, Sony and Microsoft aren't targeting casuals so much as disillusioned Wii owners: people who bought a Wii because they bought into the dream of greater interaction with the games they already loved, and then discovered that Nintendo had very different plans.
And yet when either Sony or MS talk about motion control they tie it in extensively with casual stuff. The whole industry has pigeonholed the motion control concept as nothing more than a lame novelty that impresses non-gamers. Targetting disillusioned Wii owners is who they SHOULD be targetting but I don't really think they are.
And again to target this group you have to deliver the goods. If you just pump out Red Steel level disasters then it won't do anything. When Nintendo makes lame use of motion control do they choose to only use it in that way or are they just incapable of making it work better? If it's because Nintendo just can't do better, then Sony and MS won't be able to. If Nintendo can't do it, I figure no one can.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 18, 2009, 02:10:07 PM
I hope it all comes out soon, the sooner the Industry implodes, the better.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 18, 2009, 04:43:40 PM
I have to agree with broodwars. A lot of Wii owners expected the wiimote would be used for sword swinging swash-buckling and shoot-em-up saving private ryan type games, but instead we get crap like Carnival Games, Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Wii Sports, Wii Music, and crap like that...
The motion controls COULD be exciting and hardcore, but Nintendo isn't aiming in that direction. It doesn't need to be either/or. You can have both hardcore games AND motion control at the same time, and we've seen that in games like RE4 where the controls work out great and in a few other games but it really isn't being harnessed as well as it should be.
And this is the threat that Sony poses to Nintendo with their GEM contoller. Sony might not be able to beat Nintendo in the casual arena, but Sony is getting games like Assassin's Creed, Batman Arkham Asylum, and so forth as exclusives. Now imagine these games with GEM support. It will look very bleak for the Wii when that happens. Sure, they grandmas and other casuals will still be doing their Wii Fit stuff on the Wii, but the 18-34 crowd who crave blood and gore might pack their bags.
Oh give me a break. This audience has never been part of Nintendo's core fanbase and never will unless third parties actually start making more M rated titles for the system which they won't. Nintendo's core fanbase has always been made up of casuals and families who buy Mario and Zelda because these are high quality games the whole family will like. This is why the vast majority of all Nintendo games since the NES era have been family oriented games. The only difference this gen is they've created new types of casual games that have even greater appeal to families, but it doesn't change the fact Nintendo has ALWAYS been a casual family oriented company.
Plus it's funny how some of you say Nintendo is losing it's core audience when in reality, Nintendo has actually gained a good amount of Sony's core audience. The Playstation 1 and 2 won their generations because they had the most casual and family friendly games for those gens. When Sony decided to make the PS3 with only the 18-34 male audience in mind, they forgot it was families that made the former Playstations so popular. This is why ALL of Nintendo's core games have sold more then their Gamecube counterparts because Nintendo has managed to get a good percent of the casual family audience who only owned a PS2 last gen.
This is why Microsoft and Sony right now are no threat to Nintendo's core audience either. The disillusioned Wii owners you guys talk about don't really exist. The core gamers who bought a Wii bought it because they wanted games like Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros and Mario Kart. The people who wanted games like GTA4, Gears of War and Assassins Creed already bought a PS3/360 way back in 2006 and 2007. Nintendo's lineup in the first year made it obvious to everyone that their software lineup for the Wii would be the same family friendly software they've always released. Not to mention the beyond terrible 3rd party support back in 2007 as well made it obvious the bloody M rated titles were pretty much going to be exclusive to the PS3/360.
Unless Microsoft and Sony start getting more family friendly games that can compete with Mario and Zelda then they have no chance of actually getting Nintendo true core audience. Just releasing one title like Little Big Planet or Viva Pinata isn't going to do anything when every other game released on your system is full of violent dismemberment and bald space marines. It's just like how during the Gamecube era, Nintendo publishing Eternal Darkness and having a few Resident Evil titles released for the system wasn't going to make the mature audience suddenly buy it when the PS2 and Xbox had way more.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 18, 2009, 05:39:41 PM
Sony is getting games like Assassin's Creed, Batman Arkham Asylum, and so forth as exclusives.
No they aren't. Those games are cross-platform with the 360 which tends to sell significantly more copies and will not have GEM. It may have Natal some day but that's way too different from GEM to allow a single control design to work with both.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
As far as Nintendo targeting the casual market only...do you have any idea how much time it must take to experiment with new controls? It seems that Nintendo has always spent a lot of time experimenting, from the days of cabage that led to both animal crossing and pikmin, to the n64dd camera that led to Miis. It just seems that as a company they have very little vision when they start things, but they make up for it because when things shape up it is very well developed. As an artist in some of my classes I had that problem, i would spend weeks adjusting my idea until i could do something feasable, one time i really didn't meet my deadline. Thats what goes on at EAD. I am pretty sure there are some "hardcore" games in development, but they are going to take forever to get made. Not to mention EAD has games they are working on that we do know about like Mario Galaxy 2. If we do find out what they've been working on at e3, it still might not be released for 2 years. I'm pretty sure that the next Zelda game will be mind blowing, and then there will be some assortment of maybe 3 weird games that will create new genres. Its not that they are focusing on the casual market, its just their non-casual games aren't done yet, and aren't formed enough to show.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 18, 2009, 07:38:30 PM
Quote
Plus it's funny how some of you say Nintendo is losing it's core audience when in reality, Nintendo has actually gained a good amount of Sony's core audience. The Playstation 1 and 2 won their generations because they had the most casual and family friendly games for those gens.
I disagree. The first two Playstations dominated because Sony made them the ideal first-choice console for all demographics. Casual or hardcore. Kids or adults. Male or female. It was also the best choice for most genres as well, thus attracting genre fans. The Playstation brand covered all bases and that is why it was such a dominating success. Even if you looked at the things Nintendo, Sega or Microsoft did better, Sony still did them well. If you owned a PS1 or 2 it was easy to find something you would like. If we go before that the NES and SNES also succeeded in the same way. These consoles offered something for everyone. The PS3 lost this because it was priced too high to be the console for everyone.
Quote
The disillusioned Wii owners you guys talk about don't really exist.
Apparently I don't exist. But since I already own a PS3 I'll admit that Sony can't win me over with any motion control stuff since they already won me over. I think the Wii's casual focus does drive a section of the gaming market away. Unlike the PS2, the Wii fails as a console for everyone. I've long said that Nintendo's problem is that they assume making something for everyone involves making every game for everyone and that's why they often stick to family-friendly games. Sony's strategy to offer something for everyone was to make games that appeal to different demographics so that everyone can find a game that is catered to their tastes. It's the different between making five games that five different people COULD like and creating one game each for those five people. Sony will make both God of War and Buzz! which are almost polar opposite of each other.
But are there a lot of core gamers that own a Wii, are disappointed with it, and have not already bought the Xbox 360 or PS3? I kind of doubt it. The disillusioned Wii owners exist but I think they already changed sides. What Sony can hope for is that existing Wii owners grow disinterested in it and that Sony can win them over. If they could come up with vastly superior motion control usage that can be easily demostrated to the general public then they might be able to do it. They might be able to create disillusioned Wii owners by showing off something vastly better. But I doubt they're capable of that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 18, 2009, 09:36:04 PM
I disagree. The first two Playstations dominated because Sony made them the ideal first-choice console for all demographics. Casual or hardcore. Kids or adults. Male or female. It was also the best choice for most genres as well, thus attracting genre fans. The Playstation brand covered all bases and that is why it was such a dominating success. Even if you looked at the things Nintendo, Sega or Microsoft did better, Sony still did them well. If you owned a PS1 or 2 it was easy to find something you would like. If we go before that the NES and SNES also succeeded in the same way. These consoles offered something for everyone. The PS3 lost this because it was priced too high to be the console for everyone.
You just restated a lot of my points. The Playstation 1 and 2 dominated because they appealed to everyone, but over half of their audience was made up of casual family gamers. Because Sony was so obsessed with Microsoft they focused way to much on the 18-34 male audience and completely forgot that a huge chunk of their userbase was made up of families. Because of this, a lot of the families that might have owned a PS2 last gen, have a Wii this gen.
Last gen, all family oriented multiplatform titles sold the best on the PS2, this gen they sell the best on the Wii. The overwhelming majority of Nintendo games are aimed at families, this gen all of their games have sold more then their Gamecube counterparts. If you put 2 and 2 together it pretty obvious that Nintendo has been gaining a good chunk of Sony's former fanbase.
Quote
Apparently I don't exist. But since I already own a PS3 I'll admitthat Sony can't win me over with any motion control stuff since theyalready won me over. I think the Wii's casual focus does drive asection of the gaming market away. Unlike the PS2, the Wii fails as aconsole for everyone. I've long said that Nintendo's problem is thatthey assume making something for everyone involves making every gamefor everyone and that's why they often stick to family-friendly games. Sony's strategy to offer something for everyone was to make games thatappeal to different demographics so that everyone can find a game thatis catered to their tastes. It's the different between making fivegames that five different people COULD like and creating one game eachfor those five people. Sony will make both God of War and Buzz! whichare almost polar opposite of each other.
But are there a lot of core gamers that own a Wii, are disappointedwith it, and have not already bought the Xbox 360 or PS3? I kind ofdoubt it. The disillusioned Wii owners exist but I think they alreadychanged sides. What Sony can hope for is that existing Wii owners growdisinterested in it and that Sony can win them over. If they couldcome up with vastly superior motion control usage that can be easilydemostrated to the general public then they might be able to do it. They might be able to create disillusioned Wii owners by showing offsomething vastly better. But I doubt they're capable of that.
Like I already said, people who bought a Wii knew exactly what they were getting with the system. Eveyone who bought it knew the games from Nintendo would be their usual series along with the new Wii games. The core gamers that bought it, got it for games like Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros. These are also the same people that are making New Super Mario Bros Wii the huge success it is as well. This is also the same group that will make Mario Galaxy 2 a huge success next year too.
This is why I say the disillusioned Wii owners you guys talk about don't really exist. According to some of you, the people who are buying Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros are the same gamers who want violent M rated titles like Gears of War and Assassins Creed to appear on the Wii and will leave Nintendo if these types of games don't appear. This is why I say this disillusioned audience doesn't exist because anyone that want's violent M rated titles knew from day 1 that the Wii would not be the system for them. Not to mention this is the same audience that viewed the Gamecube, N64 and SNES (Sega does what Nintendon't anyone?) as kids systems and as a result hasn't supported Nintendo for way over the last decade.
To say that these people are Nintendo core audience is complete BS since the sales data for the NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube and Wii have shown that Nintendo's true audience since the beggining is the complete opposite.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on December 18, 2009, 09:39:31 PM
Quote
The disillusioned Wii owners you guys talk about don't really exist.
I'm proof as well they do. I bought the Wii in Oct of 2007 with the intention of only buying the Wii. Starting in 1987 I had always remained faithful to Nintendo. I never bought or even lusted after another console. With the Wii, I figured the VC, along with all of the great and new IP motion control games that were sure to come would be more than enough for a casual gamer like me. I was wrong. It wasn't.
On Sept 2008, after a lot of meditation, I came to the conclusion a needed a PS3 in order to feel "satisfied." Since then, no regrets. Maybe it even happened to some of the staff here as well. Compared to the first year of Radio Free Nintendo, the "New Business" section now mostly consists of discussion on non Nintendo games. I'm not complaining. I'm just saying.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 18, 2009, 09:57:41 PM
The disillusioned Wii owners you guys talk about don't really exist.
I'm proof as well they do. I bought the Wii in Oct of 2007 with the intention of only buying the Wii. Starting in 1987 I had always remained faithful to Nintendo. I never bought or even lusted after another console. With the Wii, I figured the VC, along with all of the great and new IP motion control games that were sure to come would be more than enough for a casual gamer like me. I was wrong. It wasn't.
On Sept 2008, after a lot of meditation, I came to the conclusion a needed a PS3 in order to feel "satisfied." Since then, no regrets. Maybe it even happened to some of the staff here as well. Compared to the first year of Radio Free Nintendo, the "New Business" section now mostly consists of discussion on non Nintendo games. I'm not complaining. I'm just saying.
I'm pretty much in the same boat: I got a Wii for my birthday in April 2007 with the intention that it (like the GameCube, N64, SNES, and NES before it) would be my only console. When that 1.5 year drought hit, though, I found myself in need of games that no one on the Wii was currently delivering. I'm not talking about M-rated games or whatnot (after all, Zelda is my favorite gaming franchise), but just a steady stream of games that take the Wii concept of "simple interface, engrossing gameplay" and extend it to the core games I like to play. During the last 1.5 years, I had to get a PS3 or I would have been completely bored with the Wii's pitiful lineup (thankfully, the dam seems to have burst this Fall as we finally got some very good games from Nintendo and 3rd parties alike).
You're probably right, though, and these kind of gamers have already jumped ship to another console by now, assuming that the price of the HD consoles and the setup really needed to enjoy them didn't get in the way. Still, if Sony or Microsoft can position themselves as the company that can say "hey, we have real games here with motion controls that actually work, and they're in HD!", that could be quite the draw. As for why they've been vocal in PR about appealing to the casuals, they're certainly free to dream but I think we all know that's a lost cause at this point. And...I'm rambling...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 18, 2009, 09:58:56 PM
I'm proof as well they do. I bought the Wii in Oct of 2007 with the intention of only buying the Wii. Starting in 1987 I had always remained faithful to Nintendo. I never bought or even lusted after another console. With the Wii, I figured the VC, along with all of the great and new IP motion control games that were sure to come would be more than enough for a casual gamer like me. I was wrong. It wasn't.
On Sept 2008, after a lot of meditation, I came to the conclusion a needed a PS3 in order to feel "satisfied." Since then, no regrets. Maybe it even happened to some of the staff here as well. Compared to the first year of Radio Free Nintendo, the "New Business" section now mostly consists of discussion on non Nintendo games. I'm not complaining. I'm just saying.
This is me too. When I had my N64 and my GC, I was satisfied. I had no desire for a PS1 or 2. I bought the Wii with the idea that this would be my console for this gen. The idea appealed to me and while I was still a bit skeptical, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. 6 months ago I bought a 360. And I can tell you that my 360 gets a hell of a lot more use than does the Wii.
Now that said, I will probably always have a Nintendo console for the same reason that all of us here will probably always have one. ie, Nintendo games. If I decide to pick up a multi platform game then 99 times out of 100 it will be on the 360 and not the wii for the simple reason that the Wii version is usually bad.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 18, 2009, 10:19:31 PM
The disillusioned Wii owners you guys talk about don't really exist.
I'm proof as well they do. I bought the Wii in Oct of 2007 with the intention of only buying the Wii. Starting in 1987 I had always remained faithful to Nintendo. I never bought or even lusted after another console. With the Wii, I figured the VC, along with all of the great and new IP motion control games that were sure to come would be more than enough for a casual gamer like me. I was wrong. It wasn't.
On Sept 2008, after a lot of meditation, I came to the conclusion a needed a PS3 in order to feel "satisfied." Since then, no regrets. Maybe it even happened to some of the staff here as well. Compared to the first year of Radio Free Nintendo, the "New Business" section now mostly consists of discussion on non Nintendo games. I'm not complaining. I'm just saying.
The thing is people like you, broodwars, and Ian are an extremely small minority that is a non factor to Nintendo. Last gen during the Gamecube I remember reading post like this all the time saying the same thing. That they were loyal to Nintendo but Nintendo has left them for kids just like you guys are doing the same b!tching about Nintendo leaving you for the casuals.
If I was to believe what people on the message boards say, then the Wii should have bombed since all the loyal Nintendo fans were suppose ::) , to be jumping ship last gen. And yet, Nintendo and all their core franchises that appeal to their longtime fans are doing better then ever this gen.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 18, 2009, 10:36:24 PM
But are there a lot of core gamers that own a Wii, are disappointed with it, and have not already bought the Xbox 360 or PS3? I kind of doubt it. The disillusioned Wii owners exist but I think they already changed sides. What Sony can hope for is that existing Wii owners grow disinterested in it and that Sony can win them over. If they could come up with vastly superior motion control usage that can be easily demostrated to the general public then they might be able to do it. They might be able to create disillusioned Wii owners by showing off something vastly better. But I doubt they're capable of that.
Sony does have a very unique opportunity to make their motion control approach very different from Nintendo. I don't have the article right now, but Sony announced that the PS3 will be compatible with the 3Dtv spec that will be compatible with all PS3 games and 3D Blu-ray movies.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on December 18, 2009, 11:53:38 PM
The disillusioned Wii owners you guys talk about don't really exist.
I'm proof as well they do. I bought the Wii in Oct of 2007 with the intention of only buying the Wii. Starting in 1987 I had always remained faithful to Nintendo. I never bought or even lusted after another console. With the Wii, I figured the VC, along with all of the great and new IP motion control games that were sure to come would be more than enough for a casual gamer like me. I was wrong. It wasn't.
On Sept 2008, after a lot of meditation, I came to the conclusion a needed a PS3 in order to feel "satisfied." Since then, no regrets. Maybe it even happened to some of the staff here as well. Compared to the first year of Radio Free Nintendo, the "New Business" section now mostly consists of discussion on non Nintendo games. I'm not complaining. I'm just saying.
The thing is people like you, broodwars, and Ian are an extremely small minority that is a non factor to Nintendo. Last gen during the Gamecube I remember reading post like this all the time saying the same thing. That they were loyal to Nintendo but Nintendo has left them for kids just like you guys are doing the same b!tching about Nintendo leaving you for the casuals.
If I was to believe what people on the message boards say, then the Wii should have bombed since all the loyal Nintendo fans were suppose ::) , to be jumping ship last gen. And yet, Nintendo and all their core franchises that appeal to their longtime fans are doing better then ever this gen.
Yeah. I guess you're right. Punch Out is a core game, and it certainly cleaned up at retail this year.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 19, 2009, 12:05:31 AM
I have to finish Punch-Out!! I had to suspend playing due to my Mario Kart Wii injury at the start of the summer. Almost thought I'd never be able to play good games again.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 19, 2009, 12:42:10 AM
But are there a lot of core gamers that own a Wii, are disappointed with it, and have not already bought the Xbox 360 or PS3? I kind of doubt it.
That would be me. I'm not severely disappointed in the Wii, but the thought of getting another console has crossed my mind. The reasons I haven't is because of the cost of both the systems and the games. Now it is true that the 360 and PS3 cost a lot less than they did before and this isn't such an issue anymore like it was, but then you have to consider the games which come with an MSRP $10 higher than that of the Wii's games. Paying $60 for games sucks, and I can't afford that. I can get a lot of quality Wii games now for $29 or less.
So these games are sating my thirst for now. Does the Wii have as many core games as it should or as I would like? No. But there is enough of them that I can get by on. But I really do wish games like GTA, RE5, Street Fighter, Assassin's Creed, Batman, etc. would make their way over to the Wii. I am okay with the graphics not being as good, as long as the games don't cost $60.
All that said, I MIGHT get another console at some point but I am holding out hope things are going to turn around for the Wii soon. Next year's E3 might have a flood of hardcore Wii games for all we know. That's what I'm hoping to see happen.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 19, 2009, 12:51:00 AM
Yeah. I guess you're right. Punch Out is a core game, and it certainly cleaned up at retail this year.
You do realize last time any data was shown, Punch Out sold over 400,000 copies after it's third month on the NPD? It dropped out of the top 20 in it's 4th month, but games out of the top 20 can still put up numbers up to 100K depending on the month. Unless Punch Out stopped selling completely after it's 3rd month, it could easily be anywhere between 500-800K in North America right now. Considering that the Punch Out series was dead for 15 years, these numbers are great. Hell, if Punch Out Wii continues to have good legs, it could end up breaking the million mark, something the previous game, Super Punch Out, never did.
Really now, if your going to pick a Nintendo game at least make sure it actually did poorly. Like Excitebots, that is a Nintendo game that bombed horribly. Of course we all now the reason why that game bombed and it wasn't because their wasn't an audience for it. Luckily Reggie remembered to actually advertise and build up hype for Punch Out which is why it sold well, unlike Excitebots.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on December 19, 2009, 01:14:47 AM
Nintendo of America's advertising firm is a very interesting beast all together. They advertised the hell out of Starfy and Punch Out, but hardly gave anything to Excitebots and Metroid Prime 3, and Wario Land Shake It.
If I remember correctly, the order of sales were Metroid Prime >>> Wario Land >>> Excitebots.
It's bad when a 2-D (that is excellent) can leave an over the top racing game in the dust.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on December 19, 2009, 01:46:43 AM
im pretty sure the Wii with its widest userbase has a lot more than one demographic, publishers just are unwilling to take risks, or they just don't know what things AREN'T risks.
Gamers go where the games are. Thats one thign they should get through their head. They believe "well, this isn't the right type of console for this game", and thats stupid, because game consoles are marginally different. If the game is good people will buy it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 19, 2009, 02:15:37 AM
Nintendo of America's advertising firm is a very interesting beast all together. They advertised the hell out of Starfy and Punch Out, but hardly gave anything to Excitebots and Metroid Prime 3, and Wario Land Shake It.
If I remember correctly, the order of sales were Metroid Prime >>> Wario Land >>> Excitebots.
It's bad when a 2-D (that is excellent) can leave an over the top racing game in the dust.
I get the feeling that NCL gives NOA a limited budget and tell them what they can spend it on. The majority is probably only to be used on the heavy hitters like Mario, Pokemon and the Wii series while NOA then has to try and balance out the remaining amount for the lesser series.
Since games like Wario Land and Metroid were parts of long running existing series, NOA probably felt they could get away with not advertising since they both already have an existing fanbase. For Starfy since it's a brand new series, they had to advertise it to inform people. Same for Punch Out since the series had been dead for 15 years, reviving it now basically made it a new series to some people.
My guess on Excitebots is since Excitetrucks did good for the Wii launch, NOA thought that people who bought that game would buy this, only that wasn't the case. I'd imagine that if they had made an Excitetrucks 2 and treated it like they treated Excitebots it probably would have done much better just because people would have known it was a true sequel.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 19, 2009, 04:41:19 AM
I've long said that Nintendo's problem is that they assume making something for everyone involves making every game for everyone and that's why they often stick to family-friendly games.
They have to, Nintendo can only make so many games so they can't go around and serve niches all the time because then every individual niche would be underserved as the rate of releases would be fairly low.
Quote
Sony's strategy to offer something for everyone was to make games that appeal to different demographics so that everyone can find a game that is catered to their tastes. It's the different between making five games that five different people COULD like and creating one game each for those five people. Sony will make both God of War and Buzz! which are almost polar opposite of each other.
A difference is that Sony relies primarily on third parties. The release schedule for each niche is sparse but third parties fill the gaps. Though it looks to me like they're focusing on the xPS niche lately.
One funny thing about Buzz and Singstar is that they're very low on graphical requirements (noone cares what they look like) so it's very hard for Sony to convince the buyers of those series to switch to the PS3 because the games don't benefit from the switch.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on December 19, 2009, 05:28:33 AM
I am amazed with the rose colored glasses everyone sees the GC with.
I still think its funny how people still think HD is some sort of big selling point. It has to be one of the marketing terms that I hate the most. It reminds of of the old days when PC gamers would brag about their high res graphics yet most console owners didn't care. Enter the present consoles and they brag about their high def (cool new term) graphics and still most console owners don't care. Last I checked most people with a 360 either didn't know about the hd capability or didn't even know how to hook it up correctly.
Motion controls with HD after the name and more expensive aren't going anywhere. They need to bring a new name to the table. I just have no idea what it could be. The release list for this isn't so hot right now and the novelty is gone since Nintendo beat them to the punch with M+. Ape Escape might be good, I loved the first one. Motion controls are easily my favorite thing this gen so I hope they are at least competent.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 19, 2009, 05:43:14 AM
I didn't get to go into detail earlier, but the PS3 is gonna get a firmware update that supposedly lets the PS3 do 3D on all games that are hooked up to a 3D capable TV(120hz & HDMI 1.3).
Take GEM with it's 3D Motion Tracking capabilities and the ability to display in 3D at the same time and you might have something worth making a fuss over. Only question is can Sony make that happen, make it fun, affordable and market the hell out of it till people care?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on December 19, 2009, 06:09:36 AM
I didn't get to go into detail earlier, but the PS3 is gonna get a firmware update that supposedly lets the PS3 do 3D on all games that are hooked up to a 3D capable TV(120hz & HDMI 1.3).
Take GEM with it's 3D Motion Tracking capabilities and the ability to display in 3D at the same time and you might have something worth making a fuss over. Only question is can Sony make that happen, make it fun, affordable and market the hell out of it till people care?
I can't say I know much about it. Is it the good 3d like in imax theaters? I really like the 3d in UP. If it actually looks like you touch the picture it would be amazing, though I think they would have shown it if thats the case.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 19, 2009, 06:48:48 AM
Yeah. I guess you're right. Punch Out is a core game, and it certainly cleaned up at retail this year.
You do realize last time any data was shown, Punch Out sold over 400,000 copies after it's third month on the NPD? It dropped out of the top 20 in it's 4th month, but games out of the top 20 can still put up numbers up to 100K depending on the month. Unless Punch Out stopped selling completely after it's 3rd month, it could easily be anywhere between 500-800K in North America right now. Considering that the Punch Out series was dead for 15 years, these numbers are great. Hell, if Punch Out Wii continues to have good legs, it could end up breaking the million mark, something the previous game, Super Punch Out, never did.
Really now, if your going to pick a Nintendo game at least make sure it actually did poorly. Like Excitebots, that is a Nintendo game that bombed horribly. Of course we all now the reason why that game bombed and it wasn't because their wasn't an audience for it. Luckily Reggie remembered to actually advertise and build up hype for Punch Out which is why it sold well, unlike Excitebots.
Oh, don't use facts on the troll, Luigi Dude. He'll never read it anyway or absorb the info anyway. He just wants to sound clever and fashion himself as some sort of "fanboy hammer" or something. You already put more thought into it than he did.
About Sony's Motion Controller and 3D TV... if they seriously think they should ask people to upgrade their TVs... again, then they're pretty damn crazy. And it's not like their gaming division has a lot of money to throw around anyway, so I doubt this is their path. Unless they ARE crazy and want to fund another expensive boondoggle like Cell.
EDIT: And, excuse me but may I interject with a "what the blazing ****?" about this rose-colored nostalgia some of you guys have with the GameCube? Do you guys not remember just how hated it was, especially here? Did you not remember the almost daily bullcrap about online gameplay over and over, the failed connectivity games, the blistering editorials every quarter about how Nintendo should appeal to adults with "mature games?" I agree with Sixth. It's pretty amazing what's been forgotten about the GC is such a short time.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 19, 2009, 06:56:27 AM
The 3D update for the PS3 sounds cool, as I would like the option of being able to watch 3D-enabled Blu-Rays in 3D through my PS3. Problem is, my HD TV (which is actually a 24-in. computer monitor with multimedia inputs) can't display in 3D, and I'm not buying an expensive new TV just for the gimmick. I'm quite content with UP looking phenomenal on Blu-Ray in 2D already.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 19, 2009, 11:35:58 AM
I don't think most of us have really forgotten about the GC's failings. Its just that they are old news now and we'd prefer not to think about them. Instead, we would rather focus on what the GC did right, and it actually did do SOME things well.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 19, 2009, 11:45:06 AM
Well, I certainly haven't forgotten what the GC years were like: mediocre 3rd party support; goofy Nintendo gimmicks (pity that didn't die with the GC), horrible franchise sequels (Mario Sunshine and Star Fox Assault, among others I've probably mentally blocked out); and long periods without much of interest coming out. The thing is, I suffered through the N64 years as well, and by comparison we were living like kings with the GC. Also, as bad as things could be on the GC, I look at my shelf and although I've trimmed my collection over the years I still have a large number of GC titles, though. My collection of "worth keeping" Wii games doesn't even number half as many games (and hell, one of those games is two GC games slapped together in the Metroid Prime Trilogy), and we're headed towards Wii's final years. So for me, for all its problems I still consider the GC a console worth fondly remembering.
I will give full blame to the GC for being the genesis of that abomination that is the Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles line of games, though. ;)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 19, 2009, 12:25:36 PM
Nintendo always did goofy gimmicks though, they're a toy company after all.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 19, 2009, 12:46:48 PM
Such gimmicks like the standard controller.
An interesting thought about third parties and this new motion controller from Sony. Who thinks anything worthwhile will actually come from them when they can't even make decent Wii games 3 years in? I mean, you know the TYPES of games they've made for the Wii... is anybody really optimistic that they'll do any different on the PS3 with this?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 19, 2009, 12:53:31 PM
They've been saving their efforts for when PS360 hopped on the bandwagon. Everything up till then was just practice in seeing how motion works in the games. THe creativity starts sometime next year while the WIi continues getting "test".
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 19, 2009, 01:03:34 PM
An interesting thought about third parties and this new motion controller from Sony. Who thinks anything worthwhile will actually come from them when they can't even make decent Wii games 3 years in? I mean, you know the TYPES of games they've made for the Wii... is anybody really optimistic that they'll do any different on the PS3 with this?
I don't know, but I'm hopeful at least that it can't get much worse than it already is on the Wii so the only place to go is up. It depends on what studios support the motion controls; with what teams and budget; and whether there will be fan early-adoption, but I do think we'll see (just as we did with the Wii) some good teams on the motion control bandwagon at first. After all, remember when Capcom was doing amazing stuff on the Wii like RE4 Wii and Zack & Wiki? Then no one bought the experimental games, and we got mostly shovelware the rest of the way.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Urkel on December 19, 2009, 04:40:45 PM
I'm not expecting much to come out of Natal and GEM due to third parties relying on multiplatform releases. They're two completely different control types that wouldn't work with each other. Maybe some first party studios will come out with something interesting, but I just expect the third party stuff to be largely tacked on to existing games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 19, 2009, 08:49:32 PM
Even worse, both Natal and GEM will almost assuredly have lesser install bases than the Wiimote or even the Motion+. If 3rd parties phone it in with 60-70 million, just imagine their efforts trying to win over 5 million combined or so.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 19, 2009, 08:54:17 PM
I already have imagined, and if my imagine pans out, there will be alot of outrage from Nintendo fans and hopefully Nintendo themselves.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on December 19, 2009, 10:19:24 PM
Yeah. I guess you're right. Punch Out is a core game, and it certainly cleaned up at retail this year.
You do realize last time any data was shown, Punch Out sold over 400,000 copies after it's third month on the NPD? It dropped out of the top 20 in it's 4th month, but games out of the top 20 can still put up numbers up to 100K depending on the month. Unless Punch Out stopped selling completely after it's 3rd month, it could easily be anywhere between 500-800K in North America right now. Considering that the Punch Out series was dead for 15 years, these numbers are great. Hell, if Punch Out Wii continues to have good legs, it could end up breaking the million mark, something the previous game, Super Punch Out, never did.
Really now, if your going to pick a Nintendo game at least make sure it actually did poorly. Like Excitebots, that is a Nintendo game that bombed horribly. Of course we all now the reason why that game bombed and it wasn't because their wasn't an audience for it. Luckily Reggie remembered to actually advertise and build up hype for Punch Out which is why it sold well, unlike Excitebots.
Oh, don't use facts on the troll, Luigi Dude. He'll never read it anyway or absorb the info anyway. He just wants to sound clever and fashion himself as some sort of "fanboy hammer" or something. You already put more thought into it than he did.
About Sony's Motion Controller and 3D TV... if they seriously think they should ask people to upgrade their TVs... again, then they're pretty damn crazy. And it's not like their gaming division has a lot of money to throw around anyway, so I doubt this is their path. Unless they ARE crazy and want to fund another expensive boondoggle like Cell.
EDIT: And, excuse me but may I interject with a "what the blazing ****?" about this rose-colored nostalgia some of you guys have with the GameCube? Do you guys not remember just how hated it was, especially here? Did you not remember the almost daily bullcrap about online gameplay over and over, the failed connectivity games, the blistering editorials every quarter about how Nintendo should appeal to adults with "mature games?" I agree with Sixth. It's pretty amazing what's been forgotten about the GC is such a short time.
GC was great IMO, i liked its games most over the other consoles, so it was made of win, I could have had their shaders and their online play, and their extra polygons, but gameplay in the end triumps over all. I have said it repeatedly Cubivore is one of my favorite games ever. A lot of the bullshit that comes out of peoples mouths is how much Nintendo should try to be like everyone else.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Our basic principle is very clear: we're always trying to be different from everybody else. Many other companies might try to do the same things as someone else who's already been successful in a certain area: they think in terms of the competition, and they think in terms of how they can be better than their predecessor in any established arena. But Nintendo always tries to be unique instead. We always try to be different all the time"
Shigeru Miyamoto
I think a lot of the "failures" of the GC era are forgotten is because most people believe Nintendo was right all along
on the other hand the obvious strategy that they could go for is Divide and Conquer, and i don't mean dividing the competition and conquering, i mean going in more then one direction at once.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 19, 2009, 10:41:27 PM
It's one thing to go where there is no path and leave a trail, but it's entirely different to purposely avoid a path or trail when it's leading directly to where you want to go.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on December 20, 2009, 02:43:08 AM
maybe they don't want to go there
"Games are just a part of what Microsoft and Sony do, while for Nintendo it's your whole business. What do you think your competitors don't understand about the game business? What's the shortcoming right now is the belief this is a numbers game--the more titles the better, the more developers the better. All the evidence one needs is in front of us to say that's wrong. It's...wrong in the form of absolutely killing the development community with failure after failure...We've already had a bloodbath; we've already seen a number of developers go out of business. And we've got hardware guys continuing to drive that.
What's even worse is we're driving a disappointment factor (into) consumers who have been voting by not buying out of disappointment with the quality of product being bought to market. I think if we all have an interest in this beyond tomorrow or a year from now, we want to be promoting stronger developers and even better consumer satisfaction"
Peter Main 2001
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 21, 2009, 01:45:56 PM
Quote
And, excuse me but may I interject with a "what the blazing ****?" about this rose-colored nostalgia some of you guys have with the GameCube? Do you guys not remember just how hated it was, especially here? Did you not remember the almost daily bullcrap about online gameplay over and over, the failed connectivity games, the blistering editorials every quarter about how Nintendo should appeal to adults with "mature games?"
I distinctly remember the flaws regarding the Gamecube. The Cube was overall quite disappointing. But as bad as it was I find the Wii to be worse. The Wii is like if Nintendo took all the stuff I didn't like about them or the Gamecube and amplified them while stripping away the stuff I did like. As bad as the Cube was, at least I never felt the need to buy another current console. Though the last two years or so of the Cube's life when Nintendo released like two games a year is about on par with the Wii. The Gamecube does better because of the first three years.
To beat Nintendo, Sony (or Microsoft) has to make the Wii look as lame to the rest of the world as it does to me. Right now motion control is a damned novelty. It impresses rubes that don't know better and gets big sales. But aside from non-gamer mini-game junk it's been pretty much worthless. The best Wii games use motion control for lame-ass waggle. The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks.
Expose this and you beat Nintendo. Demostrate REAL motion control used in REAL games instead of just glorified tech demos and stupid wagglefests and make sure the general public knows this and you beat Nintendo. You demonstrate this and you create disillusioned Wii owners. You show them what motion control is truly capable of and the Wii looks like half-baked lamesauce.
But Sony ain't going to accomplish this with their flashlight. And Natal as a concept probably won't even work worth a **** for even casual games. Sony can't do it. Third parties can't do it. As lame as Nintendo's motion control usage is it's still the BEST there is and considering their track record that suggests that might be the best we'll get for a while. The concept of motion control, at least with today's technology, might be so limiting that one can't expose the Wii's lameness. You can only show what motion control is truly capable of if it is truly capable of more.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 21, 2009, 02:48:10 PM
"To beat Nintendo, Sony (or Microsoft) has to make the Wii look as lame to the rest of the world as it does to me. Right now motion control is a damned novelty. It impresses rubes that don't know better and gets big sales."
The casuals ARE the rest of the world, and they see FUN. Enough with the contradictions.
"The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks."
You've hardly sampled the library. Quit making these claims.
Is it your turn to compress 5 years of your crap into a new post (if Matt can do it, so can everyone!)? Have a Happy Winter Festive Season. Sell your Wii, you don't appreciate it, so it's best you don't get anything more out of it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on December 21, 2009, 03:49:57 PM
Guess that makes me a casual. I can't play console games that much anymore because I'm busy with college and a JOB. Damn normal life, I want to be a core gamer!
the cores are a lie
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 21, 2009, 05:18:39 PM
Though the last two years or so of the Cube's life when Nintendo released like two games a year is about on par with the Wii. The Gamecube does better because of the first three years.
Well, I don't think it is completely fair to judge the Wii right now because it still has at least two more years of life left in it. I am the first to agree the Wii's lineup thus far has been severely wanting, but it could be that the remaining years of its life will make up for the mediocre first three years.
2010 might just be the year where everything comes together and the third party support that has been absent finally shows up en masse and takes everything by storm. 2010 will for sure be the year that Nintendo unveils the next Zelda title, and God only knows what else they have up their sleeve.
Maybe the last years of the Wii's life will be as awesome as the last year's of the GC's life sucked. We will just have to wait until next year's E3 to find out.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 21, 2009, 05:54:22 PM
Quote
The casuals ARE the rest of the world, and they see FUN.
Fun is relative though. A lot of stuff you found fun as a kid you see as lame now because it's too simplistic. A lot of stuff you find fun now as an adult you would have found endlessly dull as a kid because you lacked any sort of attention span back then. To beat Nintendo, Sony has to make the general public lose interest in the motion control they currently see as fun. They essentially have to make existing motion control seem dated. Surely sometime in your life you found something to be really fun, later discovered something similar but more enjoyable, and then found that you couldn't go back to that original thing because from the different perspective you now enjoy it no longer entertains you. It's that whole "once you ______ you'll never go back" kind of thing. To beat Nintendo they've got to be the bicycle to the Wii's tricycle.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 21, 2009, 08:21:36 PM
Quote
The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks.
Well that's just wrong. There is zero chance that Wii Sports Resort could have been done on a regular controller. Period.
I think mostly my shock at the sudden retroactive love for GameCube was that most of the intense criticism it suffered had to do with market position and sometimes "kiddy games" was thrown around. Now the criticism is that it's gimmicky or "destroying videogames" or some other boring nonsense. And furthermore, Nintendo's output has been more or less identical on the Wii and GC, aside from the "Wii ____" games. And considering the GC wasn't exactly a font of third party effort, The only difference I see is that the Wii is more popular and that it's popularity is the thing that annoys its critics as opposed to the GC's unpopularity.
But you do bring up a fascinating conundrum. How can Sony convince video game buyers that their motion control is better than Nintendo's when they've spent the last three years mocking motion controls and getting their fans to join in, and they don't have anything interesting planned at all (Just based on the list. I mean "Motion Party?"), and they already tried a motion controller on the PS3 which failed so badly they made patches for games to use regular controllers?
Seems like a wasted investment to me.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on December 21, 2009, 11:04:23 PM
The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks.
Well that's just wrong. There is zero chance that Wii Sports Resort could have been done on a regular controller. Period.
Pretty sure Ian is referring to obvious critical hits like Mario Galaxy, SSBB, Mario Kart, Mario 5, ect.. And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many. The top ten on Metacritic for Wii all are, or could be running on a console. This is strange for a console who's core identity is "motion".
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 21, 2009, 11:10:29 PM
But you couldn't do pointer controls with a regular controller for SMG and you couldn't replicate MKWii's steering wheel controls with a regular controller and that was part of it's casual appeal.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: nickmitch on December 21, 2009, 11:35:12 PM
True, but you could easily have done without those things. Mario Kart will always sell, and Galaxy could've been tweaked to not need the pointer since it only mattered with the star bits.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on December 22, 2009, 01:20:21 AM
I refuse to play Mario Kart without motion, and there is no way those awesome pointer sections of Galaxy could have been done with out the wii remote. Wii sports resort has me convinced that motion will be the future. Maybe not for everything, but I bet Zelda will be so good, we won't ever want to look back. Hopefuly red steel 2 can bring forth some of that feeling.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 22, 2009, 02:22:35 AM
The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks.
Well that's just wrong. There is zero chance that Wii Sports Resort could have been done on a regular controller. Period.
Pretty sure Ian is referring to obvious critical hits like Mario Galaxy, SSBB, Mario Kart, Mario 5, ect.. And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many. The top ten on Metacritic for Wii all are, or could be running on a console. This is strange for a console who's core identity is "motion".
Curious Metroid missed the cut there as its controls severely stomped the previous two on consoles. And Wii Fit, too. But yeah, some of those games could have been on *ahem* "consoles." (Did you mean console controller?) Some games could have been made without HD resolutions or online features too.
Just what are the top ten anyway? I hope all of them apply, it'd be pretty embarrassing if even one didn't.
1. Super Mario Galaxy - You could argue that, but the game did have parts where you controlled things with the motion controller. You could say "better on a regular controller" but the very same critics don't agree and rated this game higher than Mario 64. Go figure. 2. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, The - The only actual GC port on the list, and one that has been on a controller. Curious this version sold more, though. 3. World of Goo - How in the blue blazes could this have been played on a controller? The only other version is for the PC and it's mouse-based. Better on a controller? Fail. 4. Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Yes, here's one that can be played on a controller. Better? Maybe, maybe not. But most fighting games get sold with expensive Arcade sticks for people who "swear" they control better than the regular controller. Most people roll their eyes at them, though. 5. Rock Band 2 - How is THIS a console controller? So motion controllers don't add anything but big plastic fake instruments do? And played better on a controller? And would it have sold or been reviewed better with regular controllers? Ask Rock Band Unplugged. Also, epic fail. 6. Metroid Prime Trilogy - And no way, not even the critics you are citing groupthink style agree with you on this, this game stomps the previous versions in control. 7. Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition - Ditto here. Playing this game makes playing the old GC one and especially RE5 a pain in the ass. 8. Okami - Yes, this one has been played on a regular controller before. It is a PS2 port, after all. 9. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption - How about I skip this one? We've covered this one. 10. Beatles: Rock Band, The - More plastic guitars? How about I go down two more to get past the repeats? 11. Guitar Hero 5 - *sigh* 12. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 - Hitting buttons is better than swinging the club? Not even you think so.
So really, only a few games can be considered "better" on a controller, and those happen to be built with it in mind, GC or PS2 ports, to be specific. The rest, when made with the Wiimote (or plastic guitar controllers) in mind, are better games than their forefathers including control which the majority of those reviews actually aggregated by metacritic state. (Particularly RE4) And when you say "even better," apparently both the crtitics you just cited and the gamers at large don't agree, so...
Oh there I went again, doing more research into your own point than you did. When I heard Ian say the "best of Wii" I didn't immediately think review aggregators for some reason. I thought about the best games on the Wii that use motion controls, and none of them could be done, at all, on a regular controller (since that's the point of the thread anyway). And then you pull metacritic up like it means something and... Well, it just didn't pan out, did it?
... and hold on. "Mario 5?" Do you mean NSMB Wii? I never heard it called "Mario 5" outside of Sean Malstrom. I thought you hated that guy and his opinions? Keep your friends close and enemies closer, eh?
(And sorry everybody. It's just when something gets cited that is purported to say one thing and actually says the complete opposite, it's sort of necessary to point it out. I'll try to refrain from TEXTBLAWKS in the future)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 22, 2009, 08:47:39 AM
IMO, the best games on the Wii are Metroid Prime 3, Zack & Wiki, Resident Evil 4 Wii, Smash Bros. Brawl, and Silent Hill: Shattered Memories (honorable mention to Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles). Aside from Smash Bros., they'd be nowhere near as good with traditional controls. Yeah, there are a lot of good Wii games that don't need motion control (like Mario Galaxy), but there are a lot of good ones where it is indispensable. My problem with the Wii is that there are too few Wii games that use motion control for more than just the sake of having motion control, but there certainly have been games where it's been used tastefully.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 22, 2009, 10:45:17 AM
Pretty sure Ian is referring to obvious critical hits like Mario Galaxy, SSBB, Mario Kart, Mario 5, ect.. And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many. The top ten on Metacritic for Wii all are, or could be running on a console. This is strange for a console who's core identity is "motion".
That is because most critics operate within the core value set, obviously they'll rate core games the highest. If you sort the games by sales (which is the only metric we currently have to measure their expanded audience appeal) you get a different result.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 22, 2009, 11:10:56 AM
Mario Galaxy could have been done without motion controls, but they would have had to strip out the pointer and everything it did. So it could have been done, but some changes would have been needed. Not saying it would have been better or worse, though.
However, what I think is really ironic here is Mario Sunshine is a game that would have really benefited from the wiimote. That would have made pointing the water gun thing around a lot more fun. So maybe if Mario Galaxy had come out on the GC and Mario Sunshine came out on the Wii then things would have been a lot better all around. I really don't think Nintendo will revisit the Mario Sunshine universe again considering how much the game flopped, but a sequel on the Wii might possibly be worth while.
But I think another great GC game that should get the Wii treatment is Luigi's Mansion. Not only would controlling the vacuum thing be more intuitive, but the controller also has a speaker in it which could make for some terrifying experiences of ghosts sneaking up on you...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 22, 2009, 11:46:11 AM
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I really don't think Nintendo will revisit the Mario Sunshine universe again considering how much the game flopped,
It's certainly not a flop by today's standards. 6 million is more than a lot of games sell these days. But you are correct, Wiimote pointing would have helped Sunshine immensely.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 22, 2009, 11:49:04 AM
I really don't think Nintendo will revisit the Mario Sunshine universe again considering how much the game flopped,
It's certainly not a flop by today's standards. 6 million is more than a lot of games sell these days. But you are correct, Wiimote pointing would have helped Sunshine immensely.
Wiimote pointing could have helped the water spraying aspect of Sunshine, but IMO that was far from the worst of Sunshine's many flaws (such as being incredibly boring, lacking in environmental diversity, extremely laughable voice acting, Bower Jr., a completely tacked-on Yoshi, etc.).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Urkel on December 22, 2009, 01:44:41 PM
Expose this and you beat Nintendo. Demostrate REAL motion control used in REAL games instead of just glorified tech demos and stupid wagglefests and make sure the general public knows this and you beat Nintendo. You demonstrate this and you create disillusioned Wii owners. You show them what motion control is truly capable of and the Wii looks like half-baked lamesauce.
So what you're saying is Sony needs to create games like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXY-L37qROM) before Nintendo does.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2009, 03:25:57 PM
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Curious Metroid missed the cut there as its controls severely stomped the previous two on consoles.
I personally would prefer it if Metroid Prime 3 had controls more like the Cube games. I don't expect that opinion to be widespread though. I always liked Metroid Prime's controls.
The only games that could not have been done on the Gamecube are the Wii ____ series. Even if you would prefer the other games to use motion controls, they certainly could have been made without them and would have still turned out great. Seriously, would Super Mario Galaxy not have been awesome without the star pointer stuff? If it was never there you would never miss it and you would still think SMG is one of the best games ever. Even Metroid with normal controls would have ended up comparible in quality to the other Metroid Prime games (ie: fucking awesome). Mario Kart? Yeah, we all played Mario Kart without motion control and we loved it.
The Wii _____ series however if they were released on the Gamecube would be embarassingly poor. They are games that absolutely could never have worked any other way. The other stuff, could. Considering what Nintendo raved about before I would have expected better than that. And it find it very frustrating that most of you can't understand that someone would be disappointed in the Wii because of that. For me the Wii library has larely been sequels to Cube games but with wacky controls. I had to buy a new console for that? What a rip off!
Quote
But you do bring up a fascinating conundrum. How can Sony convince video game buyers that their motion control is better than Nintendo's when they've spent the last three years mocking motion controls and getting their fans to join in, and they don't have anything interesting planned at all (Just based on the list. I mean "Motion Party?"), and they already tried a motion controller on the PS3 which failed so badly they made patches for games to use regular controllers?
Seems like a wasted investment to me.
I agree. They've stereotyped motion control as a casual focused joke and then their own motion control is just the same casual focused stuff that probably influenced people to buy a PS3 over a Wii in the first place.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 22, 2009, 04:07:30 PM
You seriously need to sell your Wii as you obviously don't get it.
Could we have played SMG w/o the pointer controls? Ofcourse we could have, but would my sister/gf/mom/friend/2nd player have sat there and watched me play or even helped me collect the star bits? Would I be able to perfect my multi-tasking by running around and collecting star bits at the same time?
Have we played Mario Kart w/o motion? Yeah, and the one with motion is the highest selling Mario Kart of all time, by far, and it keeps selling. Why? because of the casual appeal of using the controller like a steering wheel. Everyone in the house can play and and there is no level of experience required to jump in and possibly win a race.
It's not always about if it could/couldn't be done on a regular controller, it's about can the experience be enhanced or simplified by adding a unique style of control to the game, basically taking what might be considered a little stale or more of the same and making it something new, exciting, immediately accessible and more intuitive to anyone that wants to play.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on December 22, 2009, 04:14:33 PM
Madworld without motion controls would make it lose it's over-the-top entertainment that made the boss fights so awesome.
No More Heroes, same thing.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 22, 2009, 04:36:49 PM
I agree that more can be done with motion controls than the mostly poor efforts we've seen from a majority of the developers that have "tried", but Ian you are picking on the wrong crop of games. None of those games use the motion poorly.
The games you want to rag on are the poor 3rd party efforts with broken controls that replace button presses with a flick of the wrist just so they can say they used motion control.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 22, 2009, 05:33:36 PM
I personally would prefer it if Metroid Prime 3 had controls more like the Cube games. I don't expect that opinion to be widespread though. I always liked Metroid Prime's controls.
I've played Prime on the GC and on the Wii and I don't understand how you could hate the Wii controls for it. Obviously both methods can work, but to me the Wii controls are a lot more intuitive and makes it feel more natural. That's how it is with any FPS type game. Aiming a gun with analog sticks is a bit nerve-wracking, especially when you are getting your ass kicked. But with the wii mote it makes it as simple as point and click. And I know you might say that makes the games too easy, but that's really how guns are in reality so it makes things more realistic. I'm all for games having a challenge to them, but the challenge shouldn't be in having to fight with awkward controls.
For me the Wii library has larely been sequels to Cube games but with wacky controls. I had to buy a new console for that? What a rip off!
I share your disappointment with the majority of the Wii's library to date, but I think calling the system a ripoff is a bit extreme. Yes, the games have been a bit disappointing, but at least the console didn't cost $600 and there are still at least a few more years of life left in it. If nothing else, the system is going to justify itself with the new Zelda game next year. That alone would make the system not a rip-off, even ignoring everything else that has come out or will come out for it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 22, 2009, 05:37:03 PM
I agree that more can be done with motion controls than the mostly poor efforts we've seen from a majority of the developers that have "tried", but Ian you are picking on the wrong crop of games. None of those games use the motion poorly.
I can't help but wonder if Ian has ever even played a Wii game that got the motion controls right. There are indeed a lot of crappy games that only use the wiimote for waggle, and Ian might just be basing his opinion entirely on these games. He needs to give the games that get it right a shot so he can have an informed opinion.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2009, 05:48:24 PM
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Obviously both methods can work, but to me the Wii controls are a lot more intuitive and makes it feel more natural. That's how it is with any FPS type game.
The second you said "FPS" you just revealed why I don't like it. Metroid Prime is not an FPS, therefore it makes no sense to give it FPS controls and build the game around said controls.
Quote
It's not always about if it could/couldn't be done on a regular controller, it's about can the experience be enhanced or simplified by adding a unique style of control to the game, basically taking what might be considered a little stale or more of the same and making it something new, exciting, immediately accessible and more intuitive to anyone that wants to play.
I guess I just strongly disagree on how much these things enhance the game. I like SMG because of the planet concept. This is what makes the game unique and is why it's such a great game. That aspect of the game could have done effortlessly on a normal controller. For Mario Kart Wii, it offers the conventional controls. To me that proves the motion control usage is nothing but a novelty. I say the conventional controls shouldn't be an option. Not because Nintendo decides not to make them available but because the game CANNOT work with them. This applies to Wii Sports. We know Mario Kart Wii would work on the Gamecube because the option is practically there. We can experience it and the game is still great.
And games like Warioland, Twilight Princess, Punch-Out and NSMB Wii use motion control merely as waggle. They are literally just swapping a button push with a gesture. It's the same stupid crap that the third parties do except that Nintendo is a little more accurate with it.
Do you buy a new console for a slight enhancement or something major? I wouldn't have bought a SNES if it was just for the two extra face buttons.
And then you look at something like Wii Fit where the whole thing is based on a fancy doodad bundled in. Well, ****, you could release that on ANY console. How can you say that uses the Wii to any full potential when the whole thing is based on a custom controller? That's like using Duck Hunt as the d-pad killer app.
I'll give you Metroid Prime 3 and the Wii series except for Wii Fit. So that's a bunch of non-games and one core title I would rank as part of the best of the Wii. Hell I'll count the Wii Sports games as something truly special (but NOT Wii Play and Wii Music) So there are *3* Wii games that would be vastly different and inferior if they were made for the Gamecube instead. 3 titles in 3 years. With that track record you might as well have made the remote a damn accessory to a normal console.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: King of Twitch on December 22, 2009, 06:31:11 PM
True, Metroid is not FPS, but in SM you could at least hit the L/R buttons and quickly aim upward. How is having fast pointer controls instead of slow, tank-like aiming a bad, non-Metroid thing?
The Wii really is a revolution... every week the complaining goes around and around in circles.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 22, 2009, 06:42:45 PM
Ian, lets pull the curtain off this little charade of you being a disgruntled Wii gamer.
How many Wii games do you physically own and how many of those games have you actually played? And by played, I mean you gotten pretty far into it and in some cases even finished the game. You sound like the only time you've ever played a Wii is at the local Gamestop demo kiosk and the batteries were always low in the remote.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on December 22, 2009, 07:07:46 PM
The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks.
Well that's just wrong. There is zero chance that Wii Sports Resort could have been done on a regular controller. Period.
Pretty sure Ian is referring to obvious critical hits like Mario Galaxy, SSBB, Mario Kart, Mario 5, ect.. And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many. The top ten on Metacritic for Wii all are, or could be running on a console. This is strange for a console who's core identity is "motion".
Curious Metroid missed the cut there as its controls severely stomped the previous two on consoles. And Wii Fit, too. But yeah, some of those games could have been on *ahem* "consoles." (Did you mean console controller?) Some games could have been made without HD resolutions or online features too.
Just what are the top ten anyway? I hope all of them apply, it'd be pretty embarrassing if even one didn't.
Oh man, you really crack me up. Going through all ten games with the same fervor as Matlock. I'm not going to bother responding to each one. I was making the simple point that some people don't need waggle in their Mario Galaxy. Looking over that list, its painfully clear that all ten can be played and/or developed for play without a Wiimote. And for some gamers, this makes the experience better, as depending on the game, its not worth straining yourself to get the motions right as opposed to kicking back on the couch. And considering Suda thinks its a good idea to release one of the most Wii-native games on the PS3/360, I'm not the only one who thinks this way. If you prefer you games with waggle, thats great. But just because some folks in the minority do not, its no reason to get so worked up.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 22, 2009, 07:31:03 PM
Ian, lets pull the curtain off this little charade of you being a disgruntled Wii gamer.
How many Wii games do you physically own and how many of those games have you actually played? And by played, I mean you gotten pretty far into it and in some cases even finished the game. You sound like the only time you've ever played a Wii is at the local Gamestop demo kiosk and the batteries were always low in the remote.
He posted his games in the "How many 3rd party games do you have" topic.
Wii Sports Brawl Mario Galaxy MP3:Coruption Wario Land:Shake It 3rd party: Zack and Wiki MLB Power Pros Guitar Hero 3 and World Tour.
That was as of January 23rd 2009. http://nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=23731.100
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 22, 2009, 08:28:01 PM
Do you buy a new console for a slight enhancement or something major? I wouldn't have bought a SNES if it was just for the two extra face buttons.
I just want to go offtopic for a moment and point out that the SNES controller also added two shoulder buttons to its controller, and it may not seem a big deal now but that was revolutionary back in the day. The SNES controller was pretty much as perfect as one can get in the pre-analog stick era, and it was the absolute first to have shoulder buttons. It is a standard and universal feature now, but the SNES controller started it.
Now with that out of the way, I also want to say that the Wii adds more to the party than just motion controls. Granted, that is a big part of what distinguishes it from the cube, but the Wii is 1.5 to 2 times as powerful as the GC hardware wise and it also finally incorporates internet capability which is a first for any Nintendo system (unless you could the GC's internet adapter which was a joke because only one game supported it). The Wii also has Miis, all those channels (which has nothing to do with gaming, but still). So the Wii is an all round improvement over the GC in many respects and this includes the hardware specs. It is more than a repackaged Cube, even if games seldom harness its full potential.
So saying that the Wii is a ripoff because it is just a cube with motion controls is completely false. By this logic one could also say the 360 or PS3 is a ripoff because all it adds is HD ability. Paying $600 for a new console whose only improvement over its predecessor is HD is what I would consider a ripoff. The games on the PS3 and 360 may look a lot better than the games on the PS2 and XBOX1 but they don't play any different. They look better aesthetically, but they cost $10 more and they are often shorter in length. You don't get as much bang for your buck. The Wii still keep the $49.99 MSRP for its games as was the case in previous generations and that to me is commendable.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on December 22, 2009, 09:56:23 PM
Do you buy a new console for a slight enhancement or something major? I wouldn't have bought a SNES if it was just for the two extra face buttons.
I just want to go offtopic for a moment and point out that the SNES controller also added two shoulder buttons to its controller, and it may not seem a big deal now but that was revolutionary back in the day. The SNES controller was pretty much as perfect as one can get in the pre-analog stick era, and it was the absolute first to have shoulder buttons. It is a standard and universal feature now, but the SNES controller started it.
Now with that out of the way, I also want to say that the Wii adds more to the party than just motion controls. Granted, that is a big part of what distinguishes it from the cube, but the Wii is 1.5 to 2 times as powerful as the GC hardware wise and it also finally incorporates internet capability which is a first for any Nintendo system (unless you could the GC's internet adapter which was a joke because only one game supported it). The Wii also has Miis, all those channels (which has nothing to do with gaming, but still). So the Wii is an all round improvement over the GC in many respects and this includes the hardware specs. It is more than a repackaged Cube, even if games seldom harness its full potential.
So saying that the Wii is a ripoff because it is just a cube with motion controls is completely false. By this logic one could also say the 360 or PS3 is a ripoff because all it adds is HD ability. Paying $600 for a new console whose only improvement over its predecessor is HD is what I would consider a ripoff. The games on the PS3 and 360 may look a lot better than the games on the PS2 and XBOX1 but they don't play any different. They look better aesthetically, but they cost $10 more and they are often shorter in length. You don't get as much bang for your buck. The Wii still keep the $49.99 MSRP for its games as was the case in previous generations and that to me is commendable.
Interesting thoughts. I'm curious what your stance would be on a Nintendo game like Wii Mario Sluggers. It wasn't a re-release with "new play control" like Pikmin and a few others, but branded as a "new" Wii game. However, after playing it, it was clear little was added to the GC version aside from the motion controls that just got in the way, according to many reviews and members on the boards here.
Me. I'd say it was a rip off. I'd have preferred a Mario baseball game built from the ground up for the Wii with a perspective while you're at the plate more akin to Wii Sports. It is in that realm where motion controls truly shine. When I bought the Wii, I assumed games like that would be a no brainier.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 22, 2009, 11:10:34 PM
The ball has been dropped alot in the realm of what you would expect from motion control games on the Wii. Lots of games that would have made sense to be on the Wii control wise just never materialized.
I'm sure Disco Stick will have much more support from 3rd Parties.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 23, 2009, 08:18:23 AM
Yeah yeah now give us a western release date for Zangeki no Reginleiv.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 23, 2009, 09:05:18 AM
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Oh man, you really crack me up. Going through all ten games with the same fervor as Matlock. I'm not going to bother responding to each one.
Hey, I'm not the one who brought up a top ten list, bub. You don't have to respond, anyway. You didn't even look at them in the first place.
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I was making the simple point that some people don't need waggle in their Mario Galaxy.
No, you said the game would have controlled the same or better with a regular console. It's only a few posts up, go read it. Or here, I'll do it, "And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many." The very critics you cite disagree, and rated Mario Galaxy higher than Mario Sunshine and Mario 64.
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Looking over that list, its painfully clear that all ten can be played and/or developed for play without a Wiimote.
Nice sleight of hand, but you distinctly said a "regular controller," (In fact, it's right up there) Unless plastic guitars are now "regular," which would be a pretty bad double standard to have. Rockband or Guitar Hero can be played with a regular controller, but if you went around saying it could and "people would have liked it better that way," then they'll call you names, because the critics and the market disagree with you, as shown by regular Rockband sales/reviews and the absolutely horrid sales/reviews of Rockband Unplugged, with normal control scheme. Yeah some prefer it to the plastic guitar, as "horrid sales" are still a few sales, but it's not enough to matter.
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And for some gamers, this makes the experience better, as depending on the game, its not worth straining yourself to get the motions right as opposed to kicking back on the couch.
Yeah some gamers like it better. So? Some gamers liked digital d-pad controls over analog. Some gamers hate online and want single player. Some gamers like X over Y. But even if it is his opinion, it doesn't override the majority opinion that motion controls have vastly improved either the review scores and sales. This isn't about "preference." It's about whether motion control is a worthwhile innovation or a "useless novetly" and the market (and critics apparently) feel that motion control is the former, and so do MS and Sony because they're busy trying to copy it. And LOL "strain." Whatever, dude.
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And considering Suda thinks its a good idea to release one of the most Wii-native games on the PS3/360, I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Just because Marvelous as a company wants to port No More Heroes doesn't mean Suda's like "I have seen the error of my ways on motion control and wish to make amends. I am absolutely certain this game will sell million more on the PS3." He was probably too busy making NMH2 to even care. It's like saying "Obviously Shinji Mikami thinks it's a good idea to downport RE4 to the PS2" like he's on the board of directors and was his decision or something. (The game was released after he left the company.)
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If you prefer you games with waggle, that's great. But just because some folks in the minority do not, its no reason to get so worked up.
Well I'm sorry you feel debate is "getting worked up" but next time try not citing something that deliberately contradicts your point. If you don't like it, you don't have to participate.
So anyway, Sony's Wagglotron. Considering the caustic hatred that "waggle" is apparently getting even right here, does anybody think Sony's Motion Controller will even get off the ground anywhere, even if 3rd parties get behind it? They'd have to make better motion games than Nintendo and that's just not likely. They can barely make competitive games without motion.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 23, 2009, 02:32:28 PM
I'm just hoping that Nintendo's next system incorporates some sort of camera to track where you are with your wiimote and use that info to make calibration unnecessary in future games and make accuracy more 1:1.
If patents allow that is. I'm not sure how tightly locked does tracking a controller with a camera is, but I don't know why Nintendo wouldn't attempt to patent every way to do motion controls when they realized that was their next move in this market.
I personally think Sony is onto something good here and hope that Nintendo pays attention and tries to incorporate what it can of it in their own way.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 23, 2009, 03:16:24 PM
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So anyway, Sony's Wagglotron. Considering the caustic hatred that "waggle" is apparently getting even right here, does anybody think Sony's Motion Controller will even get off the ground anywhere, even if 3rd parties get behind it? They'd have to make better motion games than Nintendo and that's just not likely. They can barely make competitive games without motion.
I don't. It's funny that there is so much debate in this thread because THIS is probably something most of us agree on. Regardless of how much one may like the titles involved, Nintendo is easily the best developer in the world for motion control games. Sony can't top it. And if third parties could, well, I question why they wouldn't use this great motion control idea they've had brewing on the Wii since it's already out and has the largest userbase.
If this comes out and some major third party like Konami, Capcom or Square Enix release some killer app for it that just knocks the concept out of the park and crushes anything Nintendo has done then the "third parties hate Nintendo" conspiracy theories are true. :)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on December 23, 2009, 03:39:47 PM
Motion Control isn't rocket science, thats like sayng will Sony be able to put joysticks in its controller successfully since Nintendo was such an innovator with having a joystick in the n64 controller. The motion controlls are just another input, and at the same time they were never as good as they were supposed to be. Motion + on the other hand is. Developers have skimped on Nintendo because thats what they do. They had two generation of developing for Sony, and they see staying with sony as playing it safe, even if Sony's userbase took a nose dive this generation. Many companies, only know how to improve or simply copy existing gameplay formulas, you don't see them do things on Nintendo's level because they aren't. There are a couple of companies that are on Nintendo's level in gameplay design, like Capcom, or Konami, but being a third party and supporting multiple consoles means playing it safe can be a survival technique.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on December 23, 2009, 03:40:05 PM
I'm just hoping that Nintendo's next system incorporates some sort of camera to track where you are with your wiimote and use that info to make calibration unnecessary in future games and make accuracy more 1:1.
Would it be feasible to do this with the IR camera that's already in the Wiimote?
I'm curious what your stance would be on a Nintendo game like Wii Mario Sluggers. It wasn't a re-release with "new play control" like Pikmin and a few others, but branded as a "new" Wii game. However, after playing it, it was clear little was added to the GC version aside from the motion controls that just got in the way, according to many reviews and members on the boards here.
I don't think that Mario Super Sluggers is comparable to the "New Play Control!" lineup because it contains entirely new content (except returning characters of course). I wouldn't disagree that it doesn't live up to its potential, but it is still a new game.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 23, 2009, 03:54:58 PM
Ian, as I understand it you went and bought a PS3 because you think the motion controls on the Wii suck. Well, apparently Sony doesn't think motion controls suck because they are ripping off the idea from Nintendo and adding it to their own console.
Now my question to you is what are you going to do when motion controls become an industry standard? Every console is going to have this at some point, so how can you escape it?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 23, 2009, 04:14:53 PM
I'm just hoping that Nintendo's next system incorporates some sort of camera to track where you are with your wiimote and use that info to make calibration unnecessary in future games and make accuracy more 1:1.
Would it be feasible to do this with the IR camera that's already in the Wiimote?
The IR camera can only see what it's pointing at and it's only looking for a light source. If Nintendo were to incorporate the camera with the sensor and maybe put some strategically placed LED lights on the Wiimote2.0 to sense where it is pointing when it is not pointing at the TV, it would work better. Dual tracking for 100% accuracy all the time and no calibration.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 23, 2009, 04:22:59 PM
Video games that watch what I am doing make me uncomfortable. :(
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on December 23, 2009, 04:37:47 PM
The other reason I can see developers not working on Wii is the ridiculousness of Japanese hierarchy in businesses, what the boss thinks it the most important thing to do, workers be obedient, the boss does not do market research, nor does he probably play other games. This leaves the younger guys extremely frustrated, a lot of the younger generation of developers aren't sticking with the company for life like the previous generation has. In interviews across the board you can hear the frustration.
American companies have a similar problem, its that they use old mindset of the previous generation on the current generation. American developers will it seems always support Sony, Microsoft, and the PC over Nintendo.
Then there are those sad stories of developers like Factor 5 that did really good by supporting Nintendo, only to go bankrupt chasing graphics. What i really too bad, is that by going independent of Lucas arts and getting away from the star wars license they went with a shitty company like Brash as publisher.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on December 23, 2009, 06:42:22 PM
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Now my question to you is what are you going to do when motion controls become an industry standard? Every console is going to have this at some point, so how can you escape it?
Technically the PS3 already has motion control. I didn't buy the PS3 to escape it. I bought a PS3 because I felt the Wii was insufficient in meeting my gaming needs by itself so I bought a second console. I'm not against motion control, I'm against lousy controls and lousy games. I'm assuming good game design will never go away so it's not a concern.
Odds are Sony will release their motion dildo, the whole thing will bomb harder than the PSP Go and the PS3 will just continue as is, assuming the financial losses don't kill the thing off.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on December 23, 2009, 08:33:16 PM
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No, you said the game would have controlled the same or better with a regular console. It's only a few posts up, go read it. Or here, I'll do it, "And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many." The very critics you cite disagree, and rated Mario Galaxy higher than Mario Sunshine and Mario 64.
By "even better for many" I meant people. As in, there are many out there who would prefer a non waggle way to play those games listed on the top ten. I wasn't saying the games would be objectively "better", as this would obviously be futile on a forum.
And my gawd mate, did I really need to spell out that Guitar Hero type games still needed a fake plastic instrument??? What a waste of time this was.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Deguello on December 23, 2009, 11:38:17 PM
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By "even better for many" I meant people. As in, there are many out there who would prefer a non waggle way to play those games listed on the top ten. I wasn't saying the games would be objectively "better", as this would obviously be futile on a forum.
Well that's rather retroactively convenient for you, but "many" in that sentence directly links to "they" and "they" is used as a pronoun for the games. It's not my fault the sentence as you wrote it is ambiguous.
But why cite metacritic? The whole idea of those review aggregators is to find "objective" consensus. When you say "better for many" and you don't mean anybody else but yourself and maybe two other guys it doesn't mean much.
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And my gawd mate, did I really need to spell out that Guitar Hero type games still needed a fake plastic instrument???
Did you say that? It seems like you said all of the games would have controlled the same "or better." Either way it seemed like you gave plastic guitars a pass or considered them "regular controllers," and each way was rather puzzling.
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What a waste of time this was.
Oh you cut me to the bone, sir. I am insulted and shamed. You may depart the field in victory now.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 25, 2009, 11:26:49 PM
"Motion Control isn't rocket science,"
Any engineers here besides myself and Jonny?
Rocket science is easier than motion controls.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on December 27, 2009, 06:02:07 PM
life doesn't hang in the balance with motion control :P
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 27, 2009, 09:19:57 PM
As soon as people touch motion controls, they bitch.
People don't deal with rockets in normal, socially appropriate circumstances in daily life, unless it's part of their internet agenda.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 27, 2009, 10:03:02 PM
Motion controls and rocket science overlap quite a bit. I realize the comparison isn't intended to be literal.
Title: Sony Wand to be called Arc?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 19, 2010, 02:53:30 PM
Sony's PS3 motion controller might be called Arc (http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/19/sonys-ps3-motion-controller-might-be-called-arc-or-something-f/)
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Remember that retooled controller that Sony seemed darn well inclined to bring to the masses with its PlayStation 3? Some might say that was the original Arc, but given that just about everyone laughed the design off and forced the company's hand with the conventional SIXAXIS, there seems to be a distinct possibility that the suits are about to get their revenge. According to "a concrete source speaking under conditions of strict anonymity," VG247 has it that Sony's forthcoming PS3 motion controller will be labeled Arc when it hits retail shelves sometime "this year." If you'll recall, we knew that the device was called Gem (or was it Sphere?) during its internal production, but this is first time we've been notified of a proper name for those "on the outside." 'Course, only time (and high-ranking marketers) will tell whether the moniker will stick, but we find ourselves strangely attracted -- who knows, maybe we're just sympathetic.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 19, 2010, 04:20:11 PM
That old Batarang was pretty Arc-y.
So the name doesn't imply anything about its use, other than it's bendy-shaped, unlike the "Wii Remote" which we immediately recognize is a kind of Remote Control device. Way to strengthen those brands, Somy.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 19, 2010, 05:11:15 PM
Will Sony's Arc be able to survive for 40 days and 40 nights on the BLUE OCEAN? They will have to load two of every franchise into it, and it boggles the mind how one old man (Sony) will be able to pull all this off.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ShyGuy on January 19, 2010, 05:59:59 PM
Chozo Wins the thread.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on January 19, 2010, 07:19:39 PM
Will Sony's Arc be able to survive for 40 days and 40 nights on the BLUE OCEAN? They will have to load two of every franchise into it, and it boggles the mind how one old man (Sony) will be able to pull all this off.
Seriously. The saddest part is i can see them being dumb enough to actually release two of every franchise.. 1 standard edition, and one arc edition..
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on January 19, 2010, 11:18:46 PM
I think the Arc will flop but I hope it works great. I love the idea of motion control (which is why I bought a Wii after a decaded hiatus), its just the execution thus far that annoys me.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on January 20, 2010, 04:53:51 AM
So the Sony Motion Controller (rumored to be named Arc at the moment) has been officially delayed till Fall of this year. Well, from where I stand it isn't terribly surprising considering we've seen no hype for it so far as we enter Spring 2010, but I think it does mean that Sony just blew its only real chance at taking on Microsoft's Natal. I'm not convinced yet that Natal is actually going to work in real games, but 6 months of just Sony wielding an HD Wiimote probably could have cemented the PS3 in the public's eye as the only "true" HD motion control game in town. As it stands now, Arc is now going head-to-head with Natal in the Fall, which isn't good for Sony if Natal actually works as advertised.
This delay also means that Nintendo has another 6 months or so of motion control exclusivity, which will make both competitor's motion controllers look even more ridiculous as we finally start to see Motion + games (and Epic Mickey) on the Wii.
On the upside, this does dramatically increase the odds that actual good games for the thing will be ready by the peripheral's launch...and buy Sony time to come up with a real name for the thing. ::)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 20, 2010, 05:03:26 AM
There is never an upside when Sony rips off one of Nintendo's innovations. I have no respect AT ALL for thieves and copycats, and I hope they die a horrible painful death. If you think I'm being a bit extreme, remember this is the same company that had no scruples about installing rootkits on people's PCs WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 20, 2010, 02:04:42 PM
So.... what is Capcom gonna do with their RE5:Alternate Edition that they said they were gonna release in March(?) even if [Disco Stick] doesn't.
I'm sure I saw them say that somewhere, but now maybe Capcom should've listened to me and had that version of the game ready for the Wii too and then they could carry on without having to shelve a game for 6 months because the motion control it been re-tooled to use has been delayed.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on January 20, 2010, 02:15:07 PM
So.... what is Capcom gonna do with their RE5:Alternate Edition that they said they were gonna release in March(?) even if [Disco Stick] doesn't.
I'm sure I saw them say that somewhere, but now maybe Capcom should've listened to me and had that version of the game ready for the Wii too and then they could carry on without having to shelve a game for 6 months because the motion control it been re-tooled to use has been delayed.
If it wasn't for the fact that Sony still hasn't officially named their Motion Controller yet (which would be problematic when making that bullet point/tag for the packaging hyping the feature), I'd say they could release it as is with the capability of handling the motion control built in and ready. Then when the peripheral comes out, that option is available to you. It's not like the motion control is the only new feature of this release, as there are new costumes and several new scenarios as well. Depending on the price, that could work. If not, they could just shelve the disc version of Alternate Edition for the time being and stick with the DLC release that's already planned in the US.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Urkel on January 20, 2010, 05:41:18 PM
I guess Sony realized motion controls aren't so easy after all. Moving it to fall also makes me wonder if they plan on betting the holiday season on this thing.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 20, 2010, 07:11:43 PM
or Sony decided that instead of a lackluster launch in the spring with 5 pieces of software that would be mostly uninteresting, poor mans copy of casual titles that have already been released on the Wii or games already released with motion control added in(RE5) they would instead put the Disco Stick up against Natal this fall and not let Natal have the Holiday Spotlight all to themselves.
If Swand had released in the Spring to ho-hum sales it would have been old news by the time Natal was about to be launched and Natal would have been "The NEW Hotness" without competition (from Sony's Arc of the Gemenant)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on January 21, 2010, 12:03:22 AM
Capcom already sold me Resident Evil Jill: Jill Edition months ago. I couldn't care less about the motion controller.
Both Natal and Sony's dildo are pretty f*cked when they release this fall. They're both coming over a year after Motion Plus and right on the dawn of a new Zelda. That's a completely different kind of fail right there.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 21, 2010, 12:47:46 AM
Nintendo's success with the Wii is due to other factors aside from the motion controller (though that is a huge part of it). One factor was that the system was much cheaper than the competition, and it still is, but not by quite so much anymore. I predict within a year or two the Wii will be down to $99 or at least $129. Another factor is the price of the games. $60 games aren't cool, so the Wii holds an advantage there over its competitors. By not being HD the games don't cost so much to create and this is passed on down to consumers.
So even with the Natal and Ark, the Wii will still be a competitive force for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on January 21, 2010, 05:26:20 AM
The price isn't the important factor. What made the Wii sell is its software. Wii Sports was a bona fide killer app. So was Wii Fit. Now NSMBWii is a killer app boosting the sales like mad (the boost from the price drop had already subsided by the time NSMBWii came around and Wii sales broke records). You've seen how much ability third parties have when it comes to supplying games like that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2010, 12:40:52 PM
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Both Natal and Sony's dildo are pretty f*cked when they release this fall. They're both coming over a year after Motion Plus and right on the dawn of a new Zelda. That's a completely different kind of fail right there
Zelda is not being released this fall and most people will be unaware it's even in the works. Nintendo already has Mario and Metroid due this year. No way Zelda is making it within the same year. All we've seen in one piece of art. And Motion+ is so far a one game wonder and Nintendo doesn't have anything else for it due to drop soon.
Sony and MS are still probably fucked though because I imagine their lineup will be REALLY lame. I just don't have confidence in their abilities.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 21, 2010, 12:51:46 PM
If you think about it, it may actually benefit Nintendo if Sony and MS rip off their controller idea. The reason is multiplatform games. Right now when a game goes Multi-platform that means it comes out on the PS3, 360, and PC but not the Wii. One of the main arguments for why this is the case is Nintendo's weird controller and 3rd parties obsessed with either making use of that or bypassing the Wii entirely.
But what if motion controllers become an industry standard? Then 3rd parties are forced to deal with it whether they want to or not And maybe, just maybe, this might result in more games trickling onto the Wii.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on January 21, 2010, 12:57:06 PM
Realistically it's the graphics. You can convert traditional controls into mostly-workable Wii controls fairly easily, you cannot fit cutting edge graphics into the Wii hardware.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 21, 2010, 01:43:11 PM
Both Natal and Sony's dildo are pretty f*cked when they release this fall. They're both coming over a year after Motion Plus and right on the dawn of a new Zelda. That's a completely different kind of fail right there
Zelda is not being released this fall and most people will be unaware it's even in the works. Nintendo already has Mario and Metroid due this year. No way Zelda is making it within the same year. All we've seen in one piece of art. And Motion+ is so far a one game wonder and Nintendo doesn't have anything else for it due to drop soon.
Sony and MS are still probably fucked though because I imagine their lineup will be REALLY lame. I just don't have confidence in their abilities.
SMG2 is coming in the Spring, M:OM is likely coming in the Summer (after E3) and that leaves the Holiday wide open. Zelda+ will be the perfect M+ showcase to go up against rehashed casual/mini game ideas and patched games that people have already played/beat on the HD systems.
Zelda has been being worked on since end of 2006 and this holiday season will be 4 years since the release of the last one. There is no reason to believe that Nintendo won't be releasing it this year to go head to head with S&M other than the fact that we would want them to. Nintendo has to have something BIG this holiday season to overshadow the bombardment of advertising that Natal and Disco Stick are gonna be getting and Nintendo has to showcase with an actual game of their own all that M+ is capable of.
BTW Ian, WSR, Tiger Woods and GST have all sold well using the M+. That alone makes it atleast a 3 game wonder.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2010, 02:49:31 PM
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Nintendo has to have something BIG this holiday season to overshadow the bombardment of advertising that Natal and Disco Stick are gonna be getting and Nintendo has to showcase with an actual game of their own all that M+ is capable of.
I think it's more likely that Wii Relax will be Nintendo's big holiday game. It might logically make sense for them to go big but that doesn't mean they will. But I just can't imagine them busting out three huge titles like that in one year. I figure something would be moved. But then right now I question if Sony or MS will even get their motion control out by then. Wait for E3, I guess. We just don't know enough right now.
I will be surprised if Zelda is out this year. Very PLEASANTLY surprised. :)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 21, 2010, 03:34:36 PM
Metroid isn't exactly a big title, especially in Japan, neither is SMG(in Japan) and we know how most of the decisions are made based on what is needed in Japan.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on January 21, 2010, 03:40:27 PM
Metroid isn't exactly a big title, especially in Japan, neither is SMG(in Japan) and we know how most of the decisions are made based on what is needed in Japan.
This one might be, though, considering Team Ninja's developing this one. I agree with Ian: I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get Zelda Wii this year, but it's a real longshot (pun not intended) that we'll see it in North America this year. Unless they unveil it at GDC, we'll be looking at less than 6 months from public reveal to release. Even Galaxy 2's getting more than that. No, we'll probably see Galaxy 2 late Spring/early Summer, Metroid late Summer/early Fall, and Wii Relax and probably some 2nd or 3rd tier unannounced property going out in the Fall alongside Wii Relax. I'm seeing Winter 2011 in the States for Zelda.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 21, 2010, 04:00:52 PM
Galaxy 2 is getting longer than 6 months because they originally planned on releasing it last year. A proper reveal at E3 is plenty of time to have it out by mid-late Nov. 2010.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on January 21, 2010, 04:17:24 PM
Nintendo has to have something BIG this holiday season to overshadow the bombardment of advertising that Natal and Disco Stick are gonna be getting and Nintendo has to showcase with an actual game of their own all that M+ is capable of.
I think it's more likely that Wii Relax will be Nintendo's big holiday game. It might logically make sense for them to go big but that doesn't mean they will. But I just can't imagine them busting out three huge titles like that in one year. I figure something would be moved. But then right now I question if Sony or MS will even get their motion control out by then. Wait for E3, I guess. We just don't know enough right now.
I will be surprised if Zelda is out this year. Very PLEASANTLY surprised. :)
As long as that Zelda isn't another OoT clone, right? ;)
Really, though, I don't see how a relaxing-based game could be non-gimmicky. I don't know how Nintendo could make it a system seller, it just seems weird to me. Any idea of how to make it not involve a simple gimmick?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: King of Twitch on January 21, 2010, 04:24:42 PM
Fantastic Voyage: The Game
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on January 22, 2010, 06:37:42 PM
Really, though, I don't see how a relaxing-based game could be non-gimmicky. I don't know how Nintendo could make it a system seller, it just seems weird to me. Any idea of how to make it not involve a simple gimmick?
I dunno, I think a lot of games are relaxing, at least in part ... e.g., I love wandering around the landscape checking stuff out and looking for secrets in Zelda ... and metroid ... etc, and find it extremely relaxing.
If they just put in more landscape and more secrets and cut out the boss fights etc... and they could put in more stuff for "fun" instead of for "challenge" -- let you ski down a mountainside in the big landscape, but don't time you, and don't give you a competitor, just for fun (after all, that's what most people do in the real world!).
Oooh, I'd buy that game!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on January 23, 2010, 04:23:42 AM
I hope we'll see Zangeki no Reginleiv in the west.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 27, 2010, 09:09:30 PM
Sony Motion Controller Gets 10 Titles This Year (http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/01/28/sony_motion_controller_games)
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Sports and pet raising games on the way for Fall device.
Nikkei has a short report on Sony's upcoming motion controller device. The one piece of new information in the report is that Sony will release "around 10 or so" titles for the device within the year. Included among the titles will be sports and pet raising games.
Sony announced last week that its motion device will be released in the Fall rather than the originally announced Spring time frame. The company did not share a list of software, but promised a robust lineup.
story at link changed from story in quotes, but title stays the same.
Sony Sports & Sony Pets..... those don't quite have the same ring to them.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on January 27, 2010, 09:10:26 PM
lol killer apps lol
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: King of Twitch on January 27, 2010, 09:25:01 PM
rip off games from 5 years ago. that's the ticket
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on January 27, 2010, 09:28:42 PM
what're you talking about? these are ORIGINAL titles using innovative motion controls the world hasn't seen before.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 27, 2010, 09:46:16 PM
I know rite. it's also gonna link up with the pspTouch for some mobile motion.
You guys just wait till Sony reveals the pspPad, that is gonna change the face of computing on the living room table.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on January 27, 2010, 09:49:04 PM
What's next, a Classic Controller attachment designed like the first PlayStation controller (without analogue and rumble)?
Why would they need one when the Dualshock 3 is already available and works just fine?
One reason is that the dualshock digital-pad is one of the most horrible, painful, unusable, piece-of-crap digital pads every made. Sony has always been crap at controller design, but the digital pad is bad even for them.
Of course, the PS1's digital pad was equally crap, so just re-releasing the PS1 controller wouldn't exactly help...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on February 17, 2010, 04:06:57 PM
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One reason is that the dualshock digital-pad is one of the most horrible, painful, unusable, piece-of-crap digital pads every made. Sony has always been crap at controller design, but the digital pad is bad even for them.
Have you actually used a Dualshock 3 or are just going by past experience with Playstation controllers? And I ask that seriously because I always felt their d-pads were crap too, and assumed that trend would continue. But when I got a PS3 I was blown away by how much better the Dualshock 3 is than the previous controllers. The d-pad still has that split design but it feels way better. Playstation controller buttons always seemed to feel "mushy" to me. That isn't the case anymore. The Dualshock 3 is a really solid controller. Sony must have learned.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 17, 2010, 04:56:19 PM
Have you actually used a Dualshock 3 or are just going by past experience with Playstation controllers?
If you've used one Dual Shock, you've used them all. The basic design hasn't changed AT ALL since the original Dual Shock for the PS1, and even that was a clone of the original PS1 controller with thumbsticks attched in an unergonomic position with bubblegum and duct-tape, and then that controller in turn was a blatant ripoff of the SNES controller layout.
So there is nothing great or innovative about the Dual Shock AT ALL. The SNES controller was the best in its day, but it was never intended to have thumbsticks tacked onto it like Sony has done. And one Dual Shock doesn't change much over the last. The PS3 dual shock has tilt control and some better L/R triggers and it is also wireless, but those are the ONLY changes over its predecessor(s). The layout is EXACTLY THE SAME.
So what is great or innovative about it? Nothing. It was made by a company that makes TVs and doesn't give a **** about video games, and it shows.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on February 17, 2010, 05:06:01 PM
One reason is that the dualshock digital-pad is one of the most horrible, painful, unusable, piece-of-crap digital pads every made. Sony has always been crap at controller design, but the digital pad is bad even for them.
Have you actually used a Dualshock 3 or are just going by past experience with Playstation controllers?
I've actually used a ds3 (I own one). I grant that it may suck less than previous playstation controllers (the PS1 controller, for instance, was so mind-numbingly horrible that they really couldn't go any direction but up...), but it most definitely is still an awful dpad.
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The Dualshock 3 is a really solid controller. Sony must have learned.
It's ok (nobody actually uses the dpad anymore after all), but "really solid" is being far too kind -- and given Sony's long history of completely fucked up controllers (helloooo psp...), it's hard to think the reason is anything other than dumb luck.
[Even if the shock of being solidly in last place has made them actually start to care about what their users want (something which they clearly never did before), it's very hard for them to suddenly pick up and start excelling in an area they previously ignored -- it will take time and experience to do that. Whether Sony actually has much time left is a very good question of course....]
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on February 17, 2010, 05:47:34 PM
The SNES controller was the best in its day, but it was never intended to have thumbsticks tacked onto it like Sony has done.
And yet, in 2006, Nintendo tacked analog sticks to a SNES Controller and released the Classic Controller. I don't want to sound like I'm defending the Dual Shock which is a crummy controller I begrudgingly got used to, but at least Sony had the sense to add extra shoulder buttons behind the existing ones, not next to them. It took Capcom, of all companies, to step in and fix the Classic Controller. Seriously, Capcom...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on February 17, 2010, 05:52:57 PM
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If you've used one Dual Shock, you've used them all.
I think you ought to read the rest of my last post.
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So what is great or innovative about it? Nothing.
I don't really give a **** about a controller being innovative. It's like the steering wheel of a car. Do I care if my car has an innovative steering method or just one that works correctly? Nintendo has been very innovative with their controllers and they've introduced more standards than anybody, but they've also let their creativity get in the way of functional design.
I will and have complained about the quality of Sony's controllers. The problems are usually the mushy buttons, non-ergonomic design, and the general cheap feel they have. My praise of the Dualshock 3 is probably partially clouded by sheer SHOCK at the fact that it doesn't suck. But the general design of copying the SNES design is not a bad one. There's nothing wrong with sticking with what works. It is after all one of Nintendo's greatest designs in the first place. Meanwhile last gen Nintendo made the most egronomic controller but fixed what was NEVER broken in the button layout and the result of was the least useable controller of last gen. There is no really no reason to be cute or creative with controller design. It's just a tool for controlling a videogame and should be designed for mass functionality. Since the 3D era Nintendo has designed their controllers with only a very narrow view of game design in mind. The SNES was the last time they seemed to be thinking about making something for ALL games, instead of just their own.
I don't expect Sony to be particularly talented at motion control though. Yeah I think the Dualshock 3 is pretty good but why the hell did it take them until the third variation to get it right? The improvements they've made should have been there with the first Dualshock.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 17, 2010, 05:55:33 PM
The SNES controller was the best in its day, but it was never intended to have thumbsticks tacked onto it like Sony has done.
And yet, in 2006, Nintendo tacked analog sticks to a SNES Controller and released the Classic Controller. I don't want to sound like I'm defending the Dual Shock which is a crummy controller I begrudgingly got used to, but at least Sony had the sense to add extra shoulder buttons behind the existing ones, not next to them. It took Capcom, of all companies, to step in and fix the Classic Controller. Seriously, Capcom...
yeah, but I think the classic controller was designed the way it was to appeal to 3rd party publishers since that is basically the controller they have been working on for the past 10-11yrs.
CCpro was an olive branch to get MH3 exclusive. (But I understand your point)
What I'm really hoping for is a CCproXL for larger hands if the CCpro is the same size as the regular CC, and I don't even think my hands are all that large.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on February 17, 2010, 06:04:02 PM
Ian pretty much said all that needed to be said about the Dualshock 3, but to add on to that I will add that for my problems with the device (fragmented D-pad, mediocre motion control support, and loose-feeling L2/R2 triggers) it's still leagues better IMO than anything Nintendo's brought out this generation (so far. I have high hopes for the Classic Controller Pro). I'll never understand Nintendo's decision to give the Wiimote such microscopic buttons/D-pad; a cheap and almost completely nonfunctional speaker; and such a horrid button layout, as well as the flimsy analog sticks of the Classic Controller and lack of handles.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on February 17, 2010, 07:11:02 PM
What's next, a Classic Controller attachment designed like the first PlayStation controller (without analogue and rumble)?
Why would they need one when the Dualshock 3 is already available and works just fine?
It can't attach to the motion controller.
Considering earlier reports on the motion controller threw out ideas like holding the motion controller in one hand and the Dualshock 3 in the other, I don't think it's a big technical hurdle for Sony to have a way to link the two together. If they can't associate the two devices wirelessly, they could always attach via the USB port on the PS3 that the controller uses for charging.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on February 17, 2010, 07:27:04 PM
They need to be attached with a cord so that when you play a multiplayer game, you can strangle the other player if they win. They don't want to lack a feature that Nintendo has.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 17, 2010, 08:02:48 PM
Here is a problem with the Arc and possible wireless chuck. what if you need to charge them both at the same time or all 4 (2player) at the same time. how many charge cords does the PS3 support at once?
will there be some sort of daisy chain mini-usb connector that plugs from the chuck into the controller and the the controller into the system?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on February 17, 2010, 08:05:21 PM
Here is a problem with the Arc and possible wireless chuck. what if you need to charge them both at the same time or all 4 (2player) at the same time. how many charge cords does the PS3 support at once?
will there be some sort of daisy chain mini-usb connector that plugs from the chuck into the controller and the the controller into the system?
That depends on your PS3 model. I think the new slims have 2 USB charging slots, but my 80GB PS3 supports 4 of them. However, it is worth noting that the PS3 only comes with 1 charging cord, and new Dualshock 3s do not come with them. To be fair, it is a standard issue USB cord, though.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on February 17, 2010, 09:45:46 PM
So how much is the controller (and sensor bar)?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on February 17, 2010, 09:57:12 PM
The SNES controller was the best in its day, but it was never intended to have thumbsticks tacked onto it like Sony has done.
And yet, in 2006, Nintendo tacked analog sticks to a SNES Controller and released the Classic Controller. I don't want to sound like I'm defending the Dual Shock which is a crummy controller I begrudgingly got used to, but at least Sony had the sense to add extra shoulder buttons behind the existing ones, not next to them. It took Capcom, of all companies, to step in and fix the Classic Controller. Seriously, Capcom...
I know. I hate the classic controller as well, for the exact same reasons that I hate the dualshock controller. I think it was a HUGE step backwards for Nintendo, because their Gamecube controller was almost perfect. I only have one or two minor gripes about the GC controller, and I felt it was the best controller of all three in the last gen... why in the world did Nintendo turn their backs on it? They didn't need to design the classic controller when they could have just repackaged a wireless GC controller and had that become the CC.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on February 19, 2010, 10:36:54 AM
The GC's controller layout isn't the greatest with ALOT of the SNES games. It's perfect with the N64 games because the GC's analog stick works wonders with controlling them.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on February 19, 2010, 12:37:10 PM
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I think it was a HUGE step backwards for Nintendo, because their Gamecube controller was almost perfect. I only have one or two minor gripes about the GC controller, and I felt it was the best controller of all three in the last gen... why in the world did Nintendo turn their backs on it?
Well the Wii supports the Gamecube controller. If you really want to use it for VC games then knock yourself out. The current model is flexible. The Cube controller has a worthless d-pad and an very inflexible button arrangement that would make it useless for any SNES game. That right there could have made the difference in whether or not the VC was a success or not. A big draw of that was the ability to play classic games like Super Metroid again. **** up the controls and the appeal is gone. The classic controller is mostly used for the VC and the aside from the N64, the controller is perfect for the games on it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 19, 2010, 02:09:02 PM
I will agree the classic controller is better suited for SNES games, but in anything involving an analog stick the GC controller tops out. Nintendo seems to have let the D-pad atrophy in the GC controller, but I'm okay with that because I think its time has passed and might as well just be removed altogether. Its only valid use is for classic gaming, otherwise it just ends up being a way to change your weapons or something.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on February 19, 2010, 02:47:32 PM
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Nintendo seems to have let the D-pad atrophy in the GC controller, but I'm okay with that because I think its time has passed and might as well just be removed altogether. Its only valid use is for classic gaming, otherwise it just ends up being a way to change your weapons or something.
And yet ironically the remote has a d-pad on it but no analog stick. Games like NSMB Wii don't use the analog stick at all. Hell, Nintendo originally didn't have plans for the nunchuk and made it based on feedback from Retro. If they went with their original plan they would have been relying entirely on a d-pad. If anything I think the d-pad has seen a revival. Nintendo loves making us turn our remote sideways to use like an NES controller. I love the analog stick but the d-pad is less complicated and I think Nintendo considers that a huge pro. I think they don't give the mainstream enough credit and assume that everyone is way more helpless and confused than they really are. But if simpler is the way to go then the d-pad is the way to go.
I don't like the idea of removing something because it's not used as much anymore. That's just very short-sighted and restrictive. The videogame industry has this really annoying problem of discouraging variety in game design. Analog replaces digital, 3D replaces 2D. Whole genres just disappear because they're not the big sellers anymore. These days we have the problem where a lot of games have online multiplayer but no local multiplayer. It's like we found this new technology that if used to compliment the old would expand gaming. But instead we shrink it. We trade one for the other. But lately 2D on consoles is making a comeback and dormant genres like point-and-click adventures are being made again. And the industry looks silly for jettisoning those in the first place.
I see this now with motion control. Nintendo designed a controller so utterly different that it's pretty much worthless for anything not designed for it. Thank God for the classic controller or they would have really restricted things. It's funny that everyone accuses Sony and MS for just making the same shooters the whole time when Nintendo's console is the most restrictive console since the Virtual Boy. The Wii's standard controller is incompatible with entire genres and generations of game design. Nintendo stated with that controller that THIS type of game is what is to be made from now on and THIS type of game is not. That offends me.
Gaming should grow outward not replace or remove. We should have the absolute most genres we've ever had but instead it seems like we always have the same amount... or less. And all three console makers are guilty of contributing to this.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on February 19, 2010, 04:17:37 PM
the most ideal controller for me would be an xbox 360 controller with a gcn face button layout.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 19, 2010, 05:27:16 PM
Well Ian, we don't see too many joystick games these days anymore. 3rd party peripheral manufacturers still make joysticks for fighting games and the like, but its no longer a standard feature for any default controller, and hasn't been since the days of the Atari. The D-Pad effectively killed it off, because with the D-pad you have the same basic functionality, except you can do it with just one thumb instead of tying up your entire hand. This meant controllers could add in other buttons for more ways of controlling your character on-screen.
I think the thumbstick pretty much replaces both, though. Last night I was playing MK II and SF II on a friend's PS3 and I COULD control it the old school way with the D-pad (albeit Sony's crappy D-pad), but I quickly found the analog stick works just as well, and in fact even better.
So if the analog stick can handle traditional D-pad games just as well or even better than with the D-pad then why bother keeping the D-pad?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 19, 2010, 05:45:39 PM
Look like Sony's electronics division is trying to patent something that looks unpatentable
Sony Files Patent For Universal Game Controller (http://kotaku.com/5475448/sony-files-patent-for-universal-game-controller)
Quote from: Kotaku
There are universal TV remotes, so why not universal video game console controllers? Sony's recent patent filing indicates that could change.
The Sony patent, which was filed in August 2008 but appeared online on February 18 of this year, reads: "Just like remote controls, game consoles, and thus game controllers, are becoming widespread. It is not surprising to find more than one game consoles in a household, especially when competing game console manufacturers attempt to attract unconventional consumer groups in the gaming industry. As understood herein, it would be useful to have a universal controller that would be able to work with a variety of game consoles."
This controller would feature a touch sensitive liquid crystal display that would display various button layouts depending on the consoles. For example, a Nintendo console would pull up a Nintendo controller layout, a Microsoft console would pull up a Microsoft controller layout and a PlayStation console would pull up a PS controller layout.
The patent also notes that this controller will have a speaker and rumble. Though, this is interesting. From the patent: "This document describes an adaptable or universal game controller which can be used to emulate the controllers of popular game consoles, such as, without limitation, the PlayStation.TM. made by Sony, a controller made by Nintendo, X-box.TM. game controllers made by Microsoft, Amiga CD-32.TM. controllers, Atari Jaguar.TM. controllers, Gravis Gamepad.TM. controllers, Sega controllers, and Turbographics controllers, one or more of which terms may be subject to trademark protection. For ease of exposition trademark symbols will not be further used herein."
Those consoles are all old. Is the PS3 getting a proper virtual console and an actual universal controller to go with it?
Actual Patent: http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...DN/20100041480 (http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=20100041480.PGNR.&OS=dn/20100041480&RS=DN/20100041480)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on February 19, 2010, 06:12:51 PM
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So if the analog stick can handle traditional D-pad games just as well or even better than with the D-pad then why bother keeping the D-pad?
I consider that a big "if". Joystick to d-pad is digital to digital. On/off precision. An analog stick is not on/off. That's actually the whole point and the whole appeal. It provides more than just on/off. But because of that it is also less precise. In some situations that is acceptable but in others it strongly affects the controls and thus the enjoyment of the game. The transition wasn't as smooth for a reason: because it was replacing apples with oranges instead of apples with apples.
We see the same thing with motion control. Many games map what would previously have been a button press to a gesture. A gesture can interpret so much more than a button press so it must be better, right? Well it's not because it can interpret so much more that it's less precise for when you want on/off precision. Motion control is beneficial when it makes use of its ability to interpret more. Same with the analog stick. But both fall short when that extra functionality isn't needed. It's like using a car to drive 2 mph. It's easier to just walk.
As for Sony's universal controller it sounds like some of the really not-thought-out-enough ideas that people talked about when the DS was released. The issues are the same; no tactile sensation when you use a touchscreen so you can't feel what you're doing and two buttons cannot be pushed at the same time. It's a really STUPID idea that only sounds good to someone who doesn't stop to hypothesize what it would be like to actually use the damn thing. Kind of like the mainstream media's reaction to Natal. ;)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 19, 2010, 06:46:39 PM
I see what you're saying, Ian. I think a company could design a controller that could meet all needs, though, by just adding on a switch or something that can make an analog stick revert to the digital "on/off" functionality.
Why couldn't that be done? If you're playing Tetris, flip a switch to digital and the stick works like D-pad. But then you can flip it back to Analog whenever you are playing a 3D game. No problem, right? Better yet, just have the system determine whether the game needs analog or digital and then make the change automatically on a per-game basis.
I can also imagine a controller that has a detachable thumb-stick. Detach that stick, and it becomes a standard D-pad. Reattach it, and its an analog stick once again.
The beauty behind having something that can morph into either analog or digital is that it serves all needs and doesn't require any extra room on the controller.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 19, 2010, 07:06:00 PM
I actually got the idea from reading the last couple post in this thread, but
The one thing I haven't heard anybody mention and never seen a patent on.
Analog D-Pad.
where is it? why has no one invented and patented it yet(or have they)? this seems like the solution to the handheld analog nub problem and too many control inputs on one controller.
DS2 should have an Analog D-Pad.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on February 19, 2010, 09:28:36 PM
I can also imagine a controller that has a detachable thumb-stick. Detach that stick, and it becomes a standard D-pad. Reattach it, and its an analog stick once again.
No way, that would never work. First of all, that's a choking hazard. Second, a lot of people can't even keep track of their house keys and they'd be expected to hold onto a small piece of a controller?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 20, 2010, 01:20:13 AM
No way, that would never work. First of all, that's a choking hazard. Second, a lot of people can't even keep track of their house keys and they'd be expected to hold onto a small piece of a controller?
What about the DS stylus? Its also a choking hazard and people (not me, but apparently some people) lose it often. But you know what? Toddlers and infants have no business playing video games in the first place. Anyone under about 6 or so shouldn't be playing games at all, and that's the age where choking is a real danger. Secondly, we're talking about a cheap piece of plastic. Replacement analog sticks can be mass produced for mere pennies. Remember, we're only talking about the cheap plastic stick and not any complex electronics or anything.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 20, 2010, 01:45:08 AM
No children under 6? really? you under estimate the ability of the youth.
I can see no children under 3 because they just wouldn't have the motor skills to get anything done, but 6? Most children aren't stupid unless you let them be, I'm sure most 3 year olds can get down on some simpler videogames and figure out how to use a stylus.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 20, 2010, 05:26:18 AM
Okay BnM, you're right... a kid under 3 is considered a toddler, and that's the age where kids can't seem to resist shoving things into their mouths. I wouldn't expect a 5 or 6 year old to be in danger of choking to death on an analog stick, but I guess you never know.
But if we're going to be ridiculous about it, kids could theoretically die from the plastic the Wii console is wrapped in, or choke to death on the wrist strip, or censor bar, or god knows what else. Does that mean we should ban all these things just because this COULD happen? No. And I don't think my good idea should be rejected just because of that small possibility either.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 20, 2010, 05:45:17 AM
I only bring it up because I know a 3yr old that plays Princess Peach with moderate success and Rabbids go home with so much enthusiasm. She may not be that great at either game, but you would be surprised at the things she can get through in either game.
The funniest thing is when she beats her 7year old sisters records on WiiFitPlus including the adding game and the 3yr old barely knows how to count past 10.
But that's enough of me being off topic here (because we're on a new page and I forgot what we were even talking about).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on February 20, 2010, 09:31:30 AM
The one thing I haven't heard anybody mention and never seen a patent on.
Analog D-Pad.
where is it? why has no one invented and patented it yet(or have they)? this seems like the solution to the handheld analog nub problem and too many control inputs on one controller.
DS2 should have an Analog D-Pad.
Bad idea, analog control requires some distance to travel so you can actually input values other than 0 and maximum. The PS2 controllers had analog buttons and they sucked, you can't get any analog control out of <1mm travel. Either you'd have to make that d-pad take a long way to press which would suck for digital gaming or you'd lack any real travel which would make people not even notice the analog.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on February 20, 2010, 11:01:40 AM
But if we're going to be ridiculous about it, kids could theoretically die from the plastic the Wii console is wrapped in, or choke to death on the wrist strip, or censor bar, or god knows what else. Does that mean we should ban all these things just because this COULD happen? No. And I don't think my good idea should be rejected just because of that small possibility either.
How is that ridiculous? There are choking hazard warnings on every plastic bag large enough to fit over someone's head. Clearly these things happen if the warnings exist. And I didn't say ban these things. I just think it's a bad idea. You're asking people to simply attach and remove small pieces from a controller. The same people Nintendo says get confused by even looking at a traditional controller. Nintendo is assuming these people are f*cking morons. And these same morons could easily lose these pieces. Not that they're expensive, but if you don't have said piece, you can't play. It's just better to keep things as simple as possible.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 20, 2010, 01:11:01 PM
The one thing I haven't heard anybody mention and never seen a patent on.
Analog D-Pad.
where is it? why has no one invented and patented it yet(or have they)? this seems like the solution to the handheld analog nub problem and too many control inputs on one controller.
DS2 should have an Analog D-Pad.
Bad idea, analog control requires some distance to travel so you can actually input values other than 0 and maximum. The PS2 controllers had analog buttons and they sucked, you can't get any analog control out of <1mm travel. Either you'd have to make that d-pad take a long way to press which would suck for digital gaming or you'd lack any real travel which would make people not even notice the analog.
Actually I think I have a pretty good idea on how to solve that problem. I'll share that idea with the forum later when I have access to a scanner and then everyone can tell me how much it sucks and why it would never work.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 20, 2010, 02:23:02 PM
The one thing I haven't heard anybody mention and never seen a patent on.
Analog D-Pad.
where is it? why has no one invented and patented it yet(or have they)? this seems like the solution to the handheld analog nub problem and too many control inputs on one controller.
DS2 should have an Analog D-Pad.
Bad idea, analog control requires some distance to travel so you can actually input values other than 0 and maximum. The PS2 controllers had analog buttons and they sucked, you can't get any analog control out of <1mm travel. Either you'd have to make that d-pad take a long way to press which would suck for digital gaming or you'd lack any real travel which would make people not even notice the analog.
Which is where a detachable thumbstick would come into the equation. It could be one you snap in, one you screw in, or one that just folds out, but in any case it could be done.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on February 20, 2010, 02:39:21 PM
Analog sticks are mounted on balls, a d-pad wouldn't have enough angular traverse to really use a stick with.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 20, 2010, 02:53:23 PM
Analog sticks are mounted on balls, a d-pad wouldn't have enough angular traverse to really use a stick with.
Imagine a D-pad, but in the center of that is a hole where the ball is and where you attach the thumbstick. The D-pad would skirt around the ball and never actually touch it so it wouldn't affect it at all. And since the thumbstick would be detachable, it wouldn't affect the D-pad either when it is attached.
I'm thinking this D-pad would be shaped like a ring and would be hollow in the center. That hollow center is where the analog stick would be when its snapped in. Imagine a ring and then add the up, down, left, right bars coming out of it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on February 21, 2010, 02:15:36 AM
Why would you want a dpad there then? Why not make the analog ball separate from the dpad? Also balls like that are very deep, not good for aportable.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 23, 2010, 12:45:06 PM
PS3's Motion Control Approach: Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/ps3s-motion-control-approach-speak-softly-and-carry-a-big-stick/) Industy Gamers talks with Rob Dyer (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/psp-to-see-big-big-titles-this-year-promises-sony/), SCEA Senior Vice President of Publisher Relations
Sony call out MS and Natal!? Says they are blowing smoke and are all talk?
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Frankly, what we told Dyer is that from a pure marketing and PR perspective, Natal seems to be winning the battle. Microsoft has done much more to hype up Natal as some revolutionary platform, while emphasizing what great support they've garnered from the major publishers. Dyer, of course, sees this as simply a lot of posturing by Microsoft. He remains extremely confident in Sony's product."I'm actually really proud of the way we've handled the motion controller. From Sony's perspective, rather than go out and do a whole PR barrage to give everybody the 'happy, happy, joy, joy' news, we're going to show up and have a line-up of products to show people rather than having a lot of great statements to say, 'This is what's going to happen.' So whether it's at GDC or DPS (Destination PlayStation), and definitely at E3, you're going to see – and I've seen it from both first and third parties – some really awesome products to support this," he said. "And rather than us go there and pat ourselves on the back, and send out press releases talking about this, we're going to be Missouri; it's going to be 'show me.' And that's the deal."
Quick jab to the gut of Nintendo and the Wii to follow....
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He continued, "From a third-party perspective it's easier to develop for, you can use the same code base that you currently use for PS3 or 360 or even the Wii in order to get a motion controller game out. You can't do that with Natal. You have to have a completely separate code base and my feeling is that we're going to have a lot more games, a lot more innovation – particularly with the camera and the precision – versus what you'll have with Natal or the Wii. We can all sit around here and debate that... but the fact is I'm not having any trouble getting third-party support.” [...] We're going to have games coming from third parties that are hardcore games – these are not fluff pieces – which will incorporate the motion controller.
Now Sony calls MS a bunch of amateurs
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We then asked Dyer if he's at all concerned about PS3 getting a flood of cheap, Wii-like cash-ins since Sony's motion controller is much more similar to Wii than Natal. He countered, "I can assure you that's not what you're going to see. The fact that we use a camera changes everything. I think the press has forgotten that Sony has been using a camera [for a long time]. This is now our second iteration of it. We know what the consumer wants with regards to using a camera and whether they want something in their hands or not. I think Natal will have some great games on that system that'll work well without implements, and we're going to have what we think are better games because we have a lot more learning from [the camera]. We've done this for a long time... it's not our first foray into this business.”
Bonus: Hardcore Gamers want Motion Controls, Publisher insight on developing for Wii and a confirmation that MLB will be using ARC!?
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But what if the hardcore gamer doesn't care? Do you really want some motion controls shoehorned into Uncharted? We asked Dyer if Sony has done focus groups to find out what the hardcore wants. He answered, “Yes... I was actually at a presentation yesterday at one of the publishers where we were presenting this stuff. Trust me, we've spent way too much money on way too many outside resources looking at this. It's not, 'Oh gee, Nintendo did this. What a great idea. We need a motion controller.' It's 'Does our consumer want it? Does it make sense for the games? Can publishers maximize it and sell more games?' Based upon our research, the answer is 'Yes, a definitive resounding Yes."
He added, "I think there are some games that are purpose built not to have a motion controller and there are some games that are purpose built that would be better with a motion controller. Having been on the publisher side and having made Wii games, the problem a lot of the time was because you had that Wii remote from the get go you felt like if you weren't using it, were you really making the right kind of game? I think that's been a problem for a lot of publishers. Can I make a game that's compelling using this motion controller? And if you can't then just make a great game without it... I think people had a problem doing that on the Wii. But you're right – there are probably certain franchises that should never ever use the motion controller. But then there are some where you might go, 'You know what, this would be pretty cool if I had a real gun' or if I could really swing a baseball bat, or swing a golf club. When you get MLB and play it with the motion controls, it'll be like an epiphany. Angels will start singing and you'll have a very different experience. I promise you that; it's so damn cool. We're not making any official announcements, but I've seen the technology on it. The tech is very different from what's out there today."
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on February 23, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
I like that they say they are coming out swinging with real games. It is a very Nintendo like approach to show the product with the games together like that. It makes me think they are going to be way ahead of MS in the actual games department for their add-on.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 23, 2010, 01:50:22 PM
To be honest, I'm a little excited to see what comes from Arc. I know it's a different approach to the Wiimote, but 3rd parties seem to care for this version and I want to see what kind of efforts we've been missing out on all these years.
E3 is gonna be off the hook this year
Zelda Wii DS2(?) PSP2(?) Arc Natal
that's big stuff from everyone right there. I can only imagine what the 3rd parties are gonna bring to the table.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 23, 2010, 02:25:56 PM
This Sony guy sounds like a jerk, but sadly he is right...
It hurts when you throw a party and no one comes, and then someone else copies your party and EVERYONE comes. And by everyone, I mean the third parties. Nintendo is treated like an outcast, and I don't know if there's anything they can do to turn things around.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on February 23, 2010, 02:27:00 PM
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I think there are some games that are purpose built not to have a motion controller and there are some games that are purpose built that would be better with a motion controller. Having been on the publisher side and having made Wii games, the problem a lot of the time was because you had that Wii remote from the get go you felt like if you weren't using it, were you really making the right kind of game? I think that's been a problem for a lot of publishers. Can I make a game that's compelling using this motion controller? And if you can't then just make a great game without it... I think people had a problem doing that on the Wii. But you're right – there are probably certain franchises that should never ever use the motion controller.
This. This is everything. This is why so many Wii games are complete trash. This is what Nintendo doesn't get. Nintendo considers motion control a standard and then shoehorns stupid waggle in NSMB Wii and my brother gets everyone killed because he's a fidgety spaz who can't hold the controller still and keeps accidentally spinning. Sony is looking at this as an OPTION that SOME games would benefit from and some should never use. And the standard controller for the PS3 remains the fairly coventional Dualshock 3. Arc is about making the PS3 more flexible while the Wii has always been Nintendo shoving THEIR "standard" in your face. "Do it as we say" vs. "Do as you feel" and people wonder why Nintendo has such shitty third party support.
I know this is just talk but it reminds me of the unstoppable juggernaut Sony that got that obvious stuff right that Nintendo always shockingly got wrong. Sony was never good at innovation but they were always good at getting the little things right. This sounds like PS1 and PS2 Sony. I'm skeptical of the technology and whether it will work as tight as the Wii remote (which itself is a little loose). But if this is the attitude Sony has, they'll beat Nintendo again, at some point. They've got the attitude that will win over developers and win over gamers.
If Arc takes off what has Nintendo got? Motion control is the only thing the Wii has going for it. Sony matches that and the Wii is just an underpowered glorified last-gen console with Gamecube-esque third party support.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: vudu on February 23, 2010, 02:36:35 PM
Sony is looking at this as an OPTION that SOME games would benefit from and some should never use. And the standard controller for the PS3 remains the fairly coventional Dualshock 3.
Was motion control optional in Lair?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 23, 2010, 03:32:16 PM
Last I checked Nintendo wasn't forcing everyone to use motion controls. That is part of the reason that the Classic Controller exist.
"Do as we say" - Nintendo gets hated on for being too controlling "Do as you feel" - Nintendo gets hated on for being too relaxed on standards.
Nintendo gave options from the start on Day 1, no one ever said "you have to put motion in all your games" it's always been about making sure everyone had the tech in their hand and the developers have the choice to utilize it or don't. If it doesn't fit the game, then don't use it. But if you want to work it in in a way that works, then by all means, have at it, since every gamer is equipped to take advantage of motion controls out of the box.
Does Monster Hunter 3 force Motion Controls on the user? No. Does No More Heroes 2 force Motion Controls on the user? No.
There have always been options, it's just developers have been thinking that since the Wii comes with motion, i have to use motion, and as the guy in the article stated, no, no you don't. But if you do use it, at least use it right and in places that make sense.
The issue with Sony and MS's approach to motion controls, is that it is just another peripheral that may see early support, but if it doesn't blow up early, then it will be forgotten just like the original PSEye/EyeToy and any other system add-on that failed after the first 8 months.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 23, 2010, 03:57:30 PM
If Arc takes off what has Nintendo got? Motion control is the only thing the Wii has going for it. Sony matches that and the Wii is just an underpowered glorified last-gen console with Gamecube-esque third party support.
A lower price, and Nintendo exclusives. Plus a larger install base right from the get-go and the inertia to keep the sales moving forward. The Wii also benefits from the balance board, which Sony has so far not got around to copying (yet), which means Nintendo will still have the exercise/yoga/fitness crowd locked up for the forseeable future.
I think you're right though in the sense that this might mark a turning point where Nintendo starts to lose ground, but it will take a long time for Sony to build up momentum and I think by that time the Wii 2.0 will be ready. So Nintendo's position is pretty secure, I think.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on February 23, 2010, 04:26:29 PM
Sony is looking at this as an OPTION that SOME games would benefit from and some should never use. And the standard controller for the PS3 remains the fairly coventional Dualshock 3.
Was motion control optional in Lair?
Eventually, yes. Enough players and reviewers complained to Factor 5 that their Sixaxis controller just didn't work that they eventually patched the game to allow analog stick control (alongside other improvements that apparently brought the game from "horrible" to just "average").
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on February 23, 2010, 05:02:23 PM
Ian, I think thats a little harsh on Nintendo's part saying they are shoving motion control down anybodies face. I think some games have used motion control well, and others have poorly implemented it. For instance, i would prefer a waggle game like Twilight Princess over Mario Kart*, but if the next Zelda uses M+ and uses it well then I would prefer that. I think as a whole there has been a lull in development, and Nintendo just hasn't implemented the best control because to stay profitable they have to release games regularly. I really do think the better games are on the way.
* i know alot of you like Mario Kart Wii, but i just find a non tethered steering wheel unnatural and weird, and actually i prefer playing racing games with a D-pad. Mario Kart DS is king to me still.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on February 23, 2010, 05:36:04 PM
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Last I checked Nintendo wasn't forcing everyone to use motion controls. That is part of the reason that the Classic Controller exist.
But the classic controller is the optional purchase. If you make a game that requires it you run the risk that a large segment of the Wii userbase can't play your game. Even games that use of the classic controller and appear to be designed specifically for it have some motion control option shoe-horned in, so that all Wii owners can play it.
With Sony the motion controller is the optional purchase. The "normal" controller is the standard so there is no pressure to force in any motion control that doesn't work. Nintendo stated that the remote was to be a new standard. It isn't. From what we've got I consider motion control to be like a lightgun or a dancepad. It's the sort of thing that is awesome for a game designed specifically for it but is far too inflexible to be a standard.
But Nintendo promotes it as a standard and the "normal" controller as the accessory. They themselves make games like Punch-Out and NSMB that seem designed for the classic controller but don't support it at all. They are forcing the remote into a role I don't think it was ever ideal for. And the only justification for the Wii to even exist is motion control, since it's hardware is practically last-gen. Motion control is the Wii's whole identity and if Nintendo creates a game that really has no reason to have motion control in it they will force it in, replacing a button push with a gesture or adding some pointing related mini-game.
The attitude that Sony suggested in that quote was that motion control was something that is to only be used in situations where it makes sense to. Nintendo does not have that attitude. Making the novelty control the standard and the normal controller the accessory demonstrates that.
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I think you're right though in the sense that this might mark a turning point where Nintendo starts to lose ground, but it will take a long time for Sony to build up momentum and I think by that time the Wii 2.0 will be ready. So Nintendo's position is pretty secure, I think.
I think Nintendo will be fine as well IF they react to this correctly. But I think that's a big "if". Nintendo succeeded this gen in a very sneaky way. They sucked in direct competition so they went with something completely different and targetted a new market. That market isn't new anymore and if Arc is actually a decent product then it's a direct competition again. I always felt Nintendo always lost to Sony because they shot themselves in the foot. They always just gave people reasons to go with the competition. Their strategy with the Wii was to avoid direct compeition so they never learned or addressed these issues. Friend codes? The huge clusterfuck regarding storage space? That's the sort of stuff that in a direct competition would just be handing Sony pros. They got away with that crap THIS time but not in direct competition. Those things shouldn't be there in the first place. Those are the sort of dumb easily-avoidable ****-ups that were all over the Gamecube. They come about because of Nintendo's stubborn insistence on being unique in every situation. They never learned.
So it really all depends on what the Wii 2.0 turns out to be, but Nintendo already has the weakest third party support and we know they still insist on always being different. That's two big cons right there. Will they come up with something with the same impact as the remote again? I personally question if they'll even top the PS3 specs with the Wii 2.0. Until they learn WHEN to be different, they'll always be vulnerable.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 23, 2010, 05:41:33 PM
Ian, there does exist some games that use the wiimote/nunchuck setup in a traditional non-waggle way. For example, have you played Little King's story? That game uses the mote/chuck but it doesn't utilize the motion aspect at all (even though it could have benefited from a pointer). Or how about Rune Factory Frontier? That game let's you use motion controls when you're fishing or using a weapon, but you don't have to. I'm playing that game and I've never used the motion controls, except on the rare occasion when I accidently trigger it by moving the controller...
And I'm sure there are lots of other games out there like that which either don't use waggle at all, or at least give you the option of not using it. So my point is the Wii control setup can and is sometimes used for the traditional games. Is it well suited for this? I dunno, maybe not, but it can work.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on February 23, 2010, 05:59:46 PM
the wiimote + nunchuck is not much different then a regular controller. Joystick, 4 main face buttons(the d-pad) and 3 shoulder buttons, start+ and select-, plus theres 1 and 2 and A. You could play virtually any regular game on a wii-mote. The classic controller only improves 2d snes/nes games because of the d-pad, but your standard modern game could be made just fine, and actually you have a lot more room to play around with control schemes as a developer than you did with the Gamecube.
I wouldn't paint Nintendo as a vulnerable loser either, they have the market share, and sure they have had problems with appealing to the hardcore demographic, but this isn't as different from the Gamecube generation as people would like to paint. Wiifit, and the casual games are the modern version of Animal Crossing and Mario Party. They are filler. They make money while the pet projects cook. I would say Nintendo has done better this generation as a developer than they did last. I don't have as many games, but thats because 3rd parties have dropped to their last brancell. Mario Galaxy is better than Mario Sunshine, Twilight Princess was a gamecube game(a good one, if you didn't like it, its usually because you were not a Zelda newbie). Mario Galaxy 2 is coming out, and a new Zelda is supposed to come out this year(some are skeptical, but i keep track of zelda news and this one was mentioned during TP development).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on February 23, 2010, 06:42:20 PM
But the classic controller is the optional purchase....
With Sony the motion controller is the optional purchase.
So, the PS3 dildo optional. Wonderful. Thanks, but that's exactly why it's going to fail. Extras have a hard time selling because they're extras. Unless you have something people want, no one is going to pay extra for it. I have a hard time believing Sony, of all companies, is going to create a magical, wonder game that entices everyone to embrace their controller. 3rd parties might put it in their games as an option, but I'd bet most people will just play using the Dualshock 3.
Nintendo still has the edge here. They aren't forcing motion controls on anyone's games. 3rd parties just have this weird mindset that their Wii titles MUST have motion controls. On the Wii, motion controls are always optional but in a controller that every console owner already has.
And thanks for bringing the lulz with:
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The attitude that Sony suggested in that quote was that motion control was something that is to only be used in situations where it makes sense to.
This is the same Sony that said the PS3 is $600 because it's a computer then less than 3 years later was like "Uhhh, f*ck Linux..."
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on February 23, 2010, 07:24:31 PM
yeah. ad-ons don't sell well, and games that need ad-ons don't sell well either. One could ask why Majora's Mask had weak sales compared to Oot and that was because MM needed the expansion pak, conker needed the expansion pak, and perfect dark needed it to play most of the game. Those game all had mediocre sales(by Nintendo standards). Same goes for the Virtua Cop and House of Dead games on Dreamcast, or Seaman, or hey you pikachu, vitually any game that requires an addon. The Wii-mote is the standard because there are maybe 80-100 million of them out on the market. Any sort of game could be made with them, so the idea that Nintendo fails because Nintendo treats them as standard is flawed.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on February 23, 2010, 07:29:38 PM
Extras don't always fail (i.e. Rock Band, Guitar Hero). I just don't see how anyone could think that Sony could be more successful than Nintendo here. They're already 4 years behind.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on February 23, 2010, 07:50:35 PM
those are different though, because their games that have the addons packed in. I didn't list Donkey Kong 64(because thats how i got my expansion pak), or Namco's Time Crisis with Gun games because they generally sell the game with the device. I just mentioned Donkey Kong 64, but as a rule first party ad-ons don't do well. I didn't see Dk bongos take off because nobody used them outside of Nintendo. When first parties release and addon its like "hey we got this thing on our system, maybe some of yous 3rd parties can makes some games, come on! please?". When a 3rd party releases an ad-on its like establishing a platform on a platform, because the 3rd party release more games using the add-on. First parties find it difficult to find support for an add-on. Not to mention all those hit games are part of some gaming fad. Notice how dance games aren't as prominent as they were a couple years ago, but those music games are pretty much the same thing but super popular?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on February 23, 2010, 08:05:07 PM
Ian, I remember you saying that if Nintendo released the Wii with a CC that it would be a bad thing. Something about not trusting it to be a success or a standard or something.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on February 24, 2010, 01:02:42 AM
Ok, we all know Ian's a bit nuts, but "Sony was never good at innovation but they were always good at getting the little things right."?! WTF??
Sony has been fucking up the "little things" on their controllers left and right since the beginning. They suck at controllers. Nintendo may **** up a few things here and there, but man, they're controller-design gods compared to Sony (or perhaps more importantly, they actually seem to do testing of their designs, whereas Sony apparently just whips up something kewl-looking in a CAD program and sends it straight off to manufacturing...).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 24, 2010, 02:07:11 AM
Ok, we all know Ian's a bit nuts, but "Sony was never good at innovation but they were always good at getting the little things right."?! WTF??
Sony has been fucking up the "little things" on their controllers left and right since the beginning. They suck at controllers. Nintendo may **** up a few things here and there, but man, they're controller-design gods compared to Sony (or perhaps more importantly, they actually seem to do testing of their designs, whereas Sony apparently just whips up something kewl-looking in a CAD program and sends it straight off to manufacturing...).
A great example of this is the Classic Controller Pro. Same basic layout as a Dual Shock, nearly identical button placement, but feels A LOT better in my hands than the Dual Shock 3. Don't ever let it be said that Nintendo aren't the masters of controller design.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on February 24, 2010, 11:36:01 AM
I didn't read his entire post (his opinion is usually stated at the beginning anyway) but I'm pretty sure he was talking about how Sony is giving developers options and not forcing certain control scheme down their throats; which is a load of bullocks because they definitely need games emphasizing the controller and they want it to be a success and not a developer after-thought.
Nintendo did it the other way from the beginning. If you really don't know how to utilize the wiimote, you can support the CC.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 24, 2010, 02:06:40 PM
or you could forget the motion and just use the the wiichuck. the d-pad could work as 4 buttons all on it's own to make 6 on one side if you include the A & B buttons.
Developers have never had more options, when it comes to control, than they have with the Wii.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 24, 2010, 03:06:43 PM
You can also get around lack of buttons by using button combinations. For example, the NES controller only had two buttons. You might think this would be a problem for certain types of games, but River City Ransom for example had you jump by pushing a+b together simultaneously, or had you run by pushing forward on the D-pad twice.
it takes a slightly longer time for players to get used to it, but it shows you can get lots of moves out of just a few buttons this way.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on February 24, 2010, 07:04:23 PM
To be fair, I always hated the double button jump. *shakes fist at Double Dragon*
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on February 26, 2010, 12:43:33 AM
i loved River City Ransom. The first thing i would think about when making a new games is how can i make control even more intuitive. The Wii mote is way better thn any other scheme on the market right now. Screw the second joystick. The idea that whole genres can't be made on Wii will never make sense to me. I don't want cookie cutter games. The idea od " if it aint broke then dont fix it" works for a while, till something gets old. Playing Soul Calibur 2 and playing Soul Calibur 4, i can see where graphics aren't everything. Its the same game just prettier with some extra features. I beat the game on my first try.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 04, 2010, 02:01:59 PM
Looks like the rumored name for the Playstation Motion Controller "Arc" is all but officially confirmed.
THQ CEO Names Sony's Motion Controller As "Arc" (http://kotaku.com/5463619/thq-ceo-names-sonys-motion-controller-as-arc)
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Get used to referring to Sony's forthcoming motion controller for the PlayStation 3 (http://kotaku.com/tag/playstation3/) as Arc. That's how THQ president and CEO Brian Farrell (http://kotaku.com/tag/brianfarrell/) referred to the still unofficially named, PlayStation Eye-powered controller, previously known as "Gem," (http://kotaku.com/5423123/ps3-motion-controller-finally-named-%5Bupdate%5D) in today's investor call.
That name backs up previously published rumors (http://kotaku.com/5452232/is-sonys-motion-controller-now-named-arc) that Sony was going with the Arc name, but is still not confirmation of the PS3 controller, recently delayed (http://kotaku.com/5452456/sony-delays-launch-of-ps3-motion-controller) to the fall.
We're checking in with Sony Computer Entertainment America reps to see if they'd like to just go ahead and confirm it already, but this is sounding more and more final.
Sony & Konami Both File "Arc" Trademarks, New Gradius Coming? (http://kotaku.com/5483969/sony--konami-both-file-arc-trademarks-new-gradius-coming)
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A new trademark from PlayStation 3 maker Sony lends more credibility to the rumor that its forthcoming motion controller—still officially the PlayStation Motion Controller—will be called Arc. Konami's new Gradius Arc trademark, however, is something else.Or are they related? Siliconera (http://www.siliconera.com/) just happened to dig up two recently filed Japanese trademarks, one for PlayStation Arc, the other for Gradius Arc, the second obviously somewhere in Konami's plans for another game in its venerable side-scrolling shoot 'em up series. Could it be one of the game's we'll be playing while holding Sony's new PlayStation Eye-powered wand? While we may not know Konami's plans for a new Gradius right now, we're definitely going to hear a lot more about Sony's motion controller next week at GDC (http://kotaku.com/5473133/sony-introducing-ps3-motion-controller-to-devs-at-gdc).
It also appears that we will be having a Full Unveiling of "Arc" at GDC.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on March 04, 2010, 02:20:28 PM
HOLD IT!
How the hell would you control Gradius with a motion controller?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 04, 2010, 02:23:21 PM
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 07, 2010, 05:37:39 PM
There is a user on GAF that claims to have a developer friend that is working with "Arc". Here are some unconfirmed details as to how it is setup.
Wireless Nunchuck -analog stick at the top -X and O buttons in the middle -D-pad below that -L1 & L2 in trigger positions -longer than a Wii nunchuck
Glow Stick -Big "Win" button on top for thumb (R1?) -Four face buttons surround "Win" button (O, X, Triangle, Square) -Start & Select buttons below that -Trigger on bottom labeled "T" (R2?)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 07, 2010, 06:34:30 PM
Stick and a nunchuck? Geez, where have we seen something like that before?
Another brilliant and original Sony innovation(TM)!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 07, 2010, 06:37:06 PM
There is a user on GAF that claims to have a developer friend that is working with "Arc". Here are some unconfirmed details as to how it is setup.
Wireless Nunchuck -analog stick at the top -X and O buttons in the middle -D-pad below that -L1 & L2 in trigger positions -longer than a Wii nunchuck
Glow Stick -Big "Win" button on top for thumb (R1?) -Four face buttons surround "Win" button (O, X, Triangle, Square) -Start & Select buttons below that -Trigger on bottom labeled "T" (R2?)
Why do they need two sets of X and O buttons?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on March 07, 2010, 06:44:42 PM
it's sony, so we know they'll manage to screw it up horribly somehow...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 07, 2010, 06:48:03 PM
I'm more curious about why there is also a d-pad on the nunchuck and how are you supposed to use it comfortably.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 07, 2010, 06:48:28 PM
I'm more curious about why there is also a d-pad on the nunchuck and how are you supposed to use it comfortably.
They why is easy: They want to make you feel like you're holding a dualshock with extra buttons (O/X) The how..yeah I don't even know. It's Sony..
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on March 07, 2010, 08:05:16 PM
They could put the dpad on the end of the analogue stick, and have all the buttons on long springy stalks. Plus the rotating disco mirror ball of course.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on March 08, 2010, 02:04:14 AM
It's Sony, they could attach thumbtacks to all the buttons and it'd still be an improvement.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 08, 2010, 02:28:49 AM
They could put the dpad on the end of the analogue stick, and have all the buttons on long springy stalks. Plus the rotating disco mirror ball of course.
How about a controller which is actually a giant analog stick that you set on the floor like a table or something, and then you move it with both hands (because its so huge).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 08, 2010, 10:48:09 AM
MS forces Sony to scrap 'Arc'? (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=238059)
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Monday 8-Mar-2010 11:35 AM Microsoft-owned trademark has affected rival's plans, say sources
A Microsoft trademark could have forced Sony to rename its PS3 motion wand.
Though it's never been officially Christened, the PS3 motion controller has been heavily tipped to be called 'Arc' - with several third-party execs coining the name.
It's emerged this morning, however, that a range of Microsoft-trademarked PC accessories of the same name could have forced Sony to change its plans.
Industry sources have this morning told CVG that Sony is considering a quick renaming of the device - to avoid potential confusion and clashes with Microsoft over the trademark.
SCEA's Patrick Seybold admitted 'PlayStation Arc' is a "rumoured codename" for the controller last month, after THQ president Brian Farrell used the Arc name in an investor call.
Of course the other name being chucked about for the PS3 wand is 'Gem', and Disney Interactive recently used it recently in public.
When contacted, an SCE spokesperson issued a straight "no comment" on our report.
I really hope they don't go with the GEM code name.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 08, 2010, 11:58:14 AM
It should come with a Shocking Pink star tattoo to wear over your eye.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 08, 2010, 02:14:50 PM
I actually hope this has some success just to prove Nintendo right and to also force them to recognize competition.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 08, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
I really should get around to trademarking the word "The". Then whenever anyone uses it I can sue them for damages.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on March 08, 2010, 11:13:29 PM
With the recent purchase of Media Molecule and the constant effort to make LBP the face of the franchise, I'd go with the name "SackToy".
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 09, 2010, 12:04:29 PM
PS3 Motion Control details incoming (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/37885/PS3-Motion-Control-details-incoming)
Quote
Rumours point to launch date, partners and hardware specifics reveal at GDCWith much of the world’s games industry gearing up for GDC in San Francisco this week, the number of rumours doing the rounds is rapidly increasing – and there’s plenty being said about Sony’s Motion Controller.
Chief amongst the talk, VG247 (http://www.vg247.com/2010/03/08/arc-date-and-partners-expected-to-be-announced-tomorrow/) claims to have word that Sony will tomorrow go live with details including a firm release date and list of launch publishing partners.
You can also expect the peripheral to be given a concrete name – be it Arc, Gem or something altogether different.
Further chat has claimed that the device will come in two parts (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20148285&postcount=440) much like Nintendo’s WiiMote and Nunchuck controller.
There are plenty more rumours doing the rounds, too, though the credibility of most is up to question. Here’s one that caught MCV’s eye, though – LittleBigPlanet 2 will tomorrow be revealed as a Motion Controller exclusive due out this Q4. The truth will be known first thing tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 09, 2010, 01:52:32 PM
GDC begins today
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 09, 2010, 02:03:45 PM
No way.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 09, 2010, 02:11:30 PM
Yes Way!!!!
(http://i40.tinypic.com/6hkg11.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 09, 2010, 02:34:08 PM
It's not a Conference for Game Developers, it's a Party for Industry Stooges.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 09, 2010, 02:59:28 PM
Sony seeks Wii up-ports!? (http://www.develop-online.net/news/34076/GDC-Dev-source-backs-claim-of-PS3-nunchuck) Not really, but if they're seeking the same support that 3rd parties have shown the Wii, then they already have a losing strategy.
Quote
Sony will be able to convert Wii developers to PS3 with Motion Controller, says our source
A games development source has told Develop that Sony's new Motion Controller device will work in tandem with an optional extra Wii Nunchuck-style add-on.
Our source says claims that even though the controller's final execution will be 'reminiscent' to the Wii, the familiar elements provide scope for those working on Nintendo's platform to 'upgrade' their ideas to the HD rival PS3.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 09, 2010, 03:08:25 PM
Sony wants their own Wall of Shame?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 09, 2010, 03:19:34 PM
This is how I see it playing out:
-3rd Parties developing motion games for Wii decide to work on PS3 versions in tandem. -PS3 versions get higher review scores for 'improved visuals' and 'online', despite both versions failing miserably at motion controls. -Wii version outsells PS3 version by a substantial margin, likely due to larger install-base and initially weak consumer support for "Arc/Gem". -3rd Parties decide to drop Wii versions in order to put full support behind PS3 development, citing unfair competition from Nintendo games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 09, 2010, 03:28:26 PM
-3rd Parties announce downsizing and/or closure of studios due to failed focus on PS3 motion gaming. Nintendo to blame for not releasing the analyst rumored WiiHD.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 09, 2010, 03:34:30 PM
also,
-PS3 sales surpass Wii in 2015, Sony wins home game system war
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on March 09, 2010, 03:37:10 PM
Sony seeks Wii up-ports!? (http://www.develop-online.net/news/34076/GDC-Dev-source-backs-claim-of-PS3-nunchuck) Not really, but if they're seeking the same support that 3rd parties have shown the Wii, then they already have a losing strategy.
Quote
Sony will be able to convert Wii developers to PS3 with Motion Controller, says our source
A games development source has told Develop that Sony's new Motion Controller device will work in tandem with an optional extra Wii Nunchuck-style add-on.
Our source says claims that even though the controller's final execution will be 'reminiscent' to the Wii, the familiar elements provide scope for those working on Nintendo's platform to 'upgrade' their ideas to the HD rival PS3.
Yeah, makes you wonder what there is to steal. There's practically no expertise with the Wii to be found among third parties, you could throw completely new teams at Arc and get the same results.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 09, 2010, 04:00:47 PM
Here is a mock up that the original source says is pretty damn close to the images of the actual product that he saw.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/ak7exe.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 09, 2010, 04:06:54 PM
I'd love to see them patch Killzone 2 to work with this, as it's been sitting in my backlog for a while, but I'd settle for Resistance 3.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: LucaBrazi on March 09, 2010, 04:37:51 PM
This seems pretty good!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on March 09, 2010, 09:03:47 PM
Here is a mock up that the original source says is pretty damn close to the images of the actual product that he saw.
Hmm, seems subtly fucked up "sony style" in a few ways:
(1) Still using the same !@#$ crappy dpad from the PS1! When is this thing gonna die already?!
(2) On the right controller, the "reject/back" (X) button is in the natural "under your thumb" position; the "confirm" (O) button is in a more awkward location. This seems backwards.
The latter point gives a clue to what seems to be the fundamental problem with Sony controller designs: they always seem to make things look good or "make sense" (e.g., they favor highly symmetrical and regular layouts), but actual use-testing is apparently at best an afterthought, and its results are not allowed to override earlier decisions. However, what works best is very often not the prettiest or most "logical"!
[This is why the GC controller was so great -- even though things like the button layout looked kinda wonky, it felt, and worked, like a dream. Maybe controller designers should work blindfolded...!]
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 09, 2010, 09:06:35 PM
Microsoft manages to make their controllers as smooth as butter but symmetrical....which gives me a feeling Natal will be pretty good :P, although i only like the xbox 360 controllers not the xbox fat or slim controllers.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 09, 2010, 09:48:04 PM
Sony's awful controller design is the reason it took me so long to buy a PS3, and the reason that 8 of my 9 PS3 games were published by Sony, and the 9th, Valkyria Chronicles, is an exclusive, as I buy anything I can on the 360 because of the far-superior controller.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 04:43:10 AM
Why I think Sony is on the right track with Arc and why I also think Nintendo needs to get a motion camera as standard equipment in the Wii2.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2r5c1nq.gif)
Interesting things are about to happen.
edit: Gamespot posted a Dev diary on the Disco Stick http://gdc.gamespot.com/story/6253204/ps3-motion-controller-qanda?tag=topslot;img;1
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 11:15:54 AM
Our first Motion Plus timed exclusive....?
Quote
Lead Your Team to Glory! Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 11 to Feature Ryder Cup Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 11 to Support PlayStation 3 Motion Controller
REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Electronic Arts Inc., (NASDAQ:ERTS) announced today that one of the most prestigious tournaments in golf, The Ryder Cup, will be featured in Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 11. In addition, Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 11 will support Sony’s new PlayStation 3 Motion Controller to give gamers an authentic interactive swing experience. The game will be available on June 8 on the Wii™, Xbox 360®, PlayStation®3 and iPhone™ platforms.
Arc doesn't hit till fall, Natal games can't be mentioned till E3, and Natal doesn't launch till fall at the earliest too. That leaves Wii w. M+ as teh only way to okay with motion till atleast 2-3 months later, making it a timed (by default) exclusive.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: UncleBob on March 10, 2010, 11:23:08 AM
-PS3 sales surpass Wii for the month of March in 2015, Sony wins home game system war
Fix'd
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caliban on March 10, 2010, 11:24:26 AM
To me it seems the Arc will have less problems with calibration. The gyroscope on the Wii Motion Plus is a cool technology, and it works , but it just seems to me that its calibration issues are going to be an obstacle for developers and gamers.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 11:50:18 AM
That is why Nintendo needs to get that motion controller ready to go. Having a point of reference for the controller might eliminate the need to recalibrate after repeated wild movements. Arc(Move?) is definitely on the right track combining PSEye with the Wiimote. I really hope Nintendo isn't locked out of using a camera to track the remote for the next Wii.
also, SCEI just trade marked 2 things over in Europe and Sony has a GDC press conference today @ 4pm PST that is being Live broadcast on G4tv
The 2 things Sony Trademarked: 1.) PlayStation Move
Game controllers for consumer video game consoles for use with an external display screen or monitor and attachment devices therefor
2.) A logo for Move...? or is it for Arc? (http://i42.tinypic.com/mcf2w8.jpg)
Sony GDC Conference Live on G4tv @ 4pm PST/7pm ET and streaming(?) Live @ http://g4tv.com/SonyGDC (http://g4tv.com/SonyGDC)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2010, 12:18:08 PM
Sony's Wonderball looks awful to use for a SIMPLE game like Kororinpa. It's also a poor device for themed light-gun gaming. Must Cabela make a more-ridiculous looking shotgun shell now?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: vudu on March 10, 2010, 04:28:03 PM
So should we start guessing at what ridiculous sounding name MS is gonna come up with to garner attention like the name "Wii" did when it was first announced?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 10, 2010, 05:58:11 PM
Can't the Wii ever get an M+ exclusive that is NOT a Sports/Fitness game? Geez.... This pisses me off. If I were interested in Sports/Fitness I wouldn't be playing video games at all. They kinda defeat the point.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 10, 2010, 07:00:22 PM
Can't the Wii ever get an M+ exclusive that is NOT a Sports/Fitness game? Geez.... This pisses me off. If I were interested in Sports/Fitness I wouldn't be playing video games at all. They kinda defeat the point.
Red Steel 2, Zangeki no Reginlev, whatever Span Smasher's called now.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 07:05:24 PM
Live Blogging http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/so...age-blog-entry (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sony-gdc-event-live-coverage-blog-entry) http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1076315p1.html (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1076315p1.html)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 07:09:25 PM
seems like PS Move is the official name.
I missed the first few minutes. Trying to do some P90X at the same time ;) multi-tasking FTW
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 07:44:37 PM
Apparently Zipper created the Move/SubCon control scheme for SoCoM that we've been using on games such as The Conduit and MW: Reflex. That's good to know.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 07:47:28 PM
(http://i40.tinypic.com/w8su8p.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 10, 2010, 07:51:29 PM
Well I'd say the presentation was underwhelming from my perspective. So Move is essentially Motion+, with no new ideas. Even the marketing images and videos used are carbon copies of Nintendo media from 4 years ago.
The Sony exec explained that Nintendo did a good job of introducing motion controls to the masses, but that they will come to PS3/Move for the evolved experiences. At this point, I find it hard to believe that families are going to a)buy a PS3, b)buy Move, c)buy extra controllers, d)buy games, when they can find the exact same experience on Wii, in which they have already invested.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 10, 2010, 07:55:32 PM
RED OCEAN ALERT!!!!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 10, 2010, 07:58:16 PM
You've got to be kidding me...all that time and all that waffling about what they were going to call that damn motion controller, and the best they can come up with is "PlayStation Move"? :Q
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 10, 2010, 08:00:18 PM
"Move" is a pretty decent name. It such an obvious literal name that none of us would think of it because we would try to be more creative.
The marketing slogans write themselves: "Make your move", "It's your move", "Bust a move", "What's your move". Easy stuff. You could even call the launch day "moving day". They could tell the Wii to "move over". Damn, this is EASY.
Quote
The Sony exec explained that Nintendo did a good job of introducing motion controls to the masses, but that they will come to PS3/Move for the evolved experiences. At this point, I find it hard to believe that families are going to a)buy a PS3, b)buy Move, c)buy extra controllers, d)buy games, when they can find the exact same experience on Wii, in which they have already invested.
It would come down to the games wouldn't it? The Wii's motion control is largely casual focused stuff. Sony makes Killzone 3 with Move support and what's the Wii got to match? The Conduit? But then you specified familes and, no, I don't think families will jump ship. But Sony (and MS I assume) can lock the core market down. The PS3 is now the Wii with better graphics and better third party support. Nintendo's whole hook, the whole thing has made the Wii unique, is gone.
If Sony just tries to steal the casuals away though, that's a waste. And they'll lose for sure. Nintendo practically begs the core market to adandon them for good and all it will take is for someone to show the REAL potential of motion control.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 10, 2010, 08:05:53 PM
Well, if Sony is intending me to buy this damn thing, they haven't made their case with actual games so far. If they want to be taken seriously as the home for "serious" motion control, they need to hit hard with quality motion control games right out of the gate that people want to buy. It's been years since just being able to fling around Sackboy in LittleBigPlanet with waggle would have been enough for me.
I haven't really been following GDC, but did they show RE5: Alternative at the show? I would be interested in getting Move for that, just to have the same experience I got in RE4 Wii, and I'd rather buy that than the Gold Edition.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 10, 2010, 08:11:13 PM
For the core market, it will come down to games. It always does. But from what has been shown so far, there aren't any original ideas that core gamers will be interested in. A significant portion of the demos were copies of Wii Sports Resort activities with more realistic graphics (note: not necessarily better). SOCOM-type has already been achieved on Wii, again just with lesser graphics. The fighting-type game looked clumsy and slow at first glance.
I guess we'll just have to see what games come in the future. I absolutely think that Nintendo has the upper hand, having more experience developing motion games. I think this will come to fruition this holiday, when a bunch of full-on core-type games come out for Wii, with full Motion+ support, whereas Move will only have its 'first attempts'.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Shaymin on March 10, 2010, 08:14:05 PM
This would be a perfect time for NOA to run another Kanye on the PS3 and announce the black Wii.
Especially given their talk of being a transition console for the Wii-owning crowd.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 10, 2010, 08:35:53 PM
Sony is making Killzone 3 with move support?
So, whats Retro working on?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_Lindy on March 10, 2010, 08:52:28 PM
Nobody out there is buying a PS3 for motion control, so this is basically a marketing checkbox. It brings them onto an even level with Nintendo in terms of product features.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 08:59:59 PM
I find it hard to believe that families are going to a)buy a PS3($299), b)buy Move($99), c)buy extra controllers($39?x3), d)buy games($59), when they can find the exact same experience on Wii, in which they have already invested.
Lets add that up at my imaginary register PS3 = $300 Move = $100 (comes w/ game) Xtra Moves Wand ($40) x3 = $120 Sub Controllers ($25) (nunchuck) x3 = $75 Extra Games ($60) x2 = $120 -------------- ........$715 (system, camera, 4 motion wands, 4 subcons, 3 games, 1 DS3)
vs
Whats already invested in Wii
Wii (Walmart bundle) = $200 (2games w/ M+) Extra Wiimote w/ M+ ($50) x2 = $100 Extra Nunchuck ($20) x3 = $60 Classic Controller Pro x1 = $20 Extra Games ($50) x2 = $100 (1x = WiiPlay w/ wiimote) -------------------- .......$480 (system, 4 wiimotes, 4 nunchucks, 4 games, 1 ccpro)
I don't think any casual already invested in a Wii is gonna make the investment. Not even at the bare minimum needed. (PS3 + Move w/ 1game + SubCon = $425) vs (Wii w/ 2games & MP + CCPro = $225) Huge difference.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Halbred on March 10, 2010, 09:11:50 PM
The Move controller is actually even more streamlined than the Wii Remote. Nintendo's Remote still offers/cnfuses a new player with a d-pad, plus, A, minus, 1 and 2 buttons as well as a home button and B trigger.
Why does that sentance from the article make it sond like the SubCon doesn't have a d-pad? Or was it strictly referring to the wand? Cuz i'm assuming they'd compare the controllers as a whole..
Quote
No off-hand gyro: The Wii Nunchuk has a sensor that detects motion, more crudely than does the Remote. The PS3's version of the Nunchuk, does not have a motion sensor, according to a developer I was speaking to. There's a chance that is not final, but that is the case with the controllers at Sony's showcase event today. But that's why two-handed boxing-style games were shown with two Moves. On the Wii, those kinds of games are handled, with supposedly less precision, with a Remote and Nunchuk
So in order to play a wii boxing like game one would have to invest an additional $40 for a second Move controller, or an additional $120 for 3 additional controllers if you plan on playing against a friend? Ouch.
Quote
And, hey, the Sony person showing me SOCOM didn't even make me wear the controller's wrist strap. A Nintendo person would never let me get away with that.
This part made me LOl. Will this be used against Sony in a court of law someday?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: vudu on March 10, 2010, 09:31:38 PM
The Z: Without a Wii MotionPlus, the Wii Remote cannot accurately sense depth. The Wii's sensor bar doesn't know how close the player is standing to their TV, not can it recognize movements toward or away from it. The PS3, however, can detect such movement in the Z-plane. It does this thanks to the sphere at the end of the controller. If the player moves the Move toward themselves, the PlayStation Eye camera sees the sphere shrink and therefore knows the controller has been moved in the Z-plane. Clever.
BULLSHIT!!!! that is how the sensor par is used too. it's how you zoom on some games. it sees that the dots on the sensor bar got farther apart or closer together and zoomed in or out accordingly.
Quote
A smarter controller: I played SOCOM 4, a third person-shooter, with the Move pointed at the TV like a gun and the sub-controller in my left hand to command character movement. Wii games that were controlled with Remote and Nunchuk could be befuddled if the player pointed the Remote away from the screen. If you were playing a shooter and aimed just off the screen, the game's camera might start spinning or the game would pause and ask for the player to point at the TV again.
The guys from HVS said this problem was solved with the inclusion of M+ and that you could technically even shoot at enemies that were off screen. They were playing around with it or something like that, but dropped M+ from The Conduit due to time issues. (I think it was HVS that said this). Still not as accurate as PSEye/Move, but it works exactly the same as if someone where blocking the camera like the Kotaku person said.
Quote
No wasted batteries: The Wii remote sucks up AA battery juice. The Move and its companion sub-controller are rechargeable via the same mini-USB connection used to charge the PS3's main controller.
No wire!: The Wii Remote and Nunchuk are tethered by a short cable. The PS3 Move and its subcontroller are not.
This raises the same concern that I had earlier. What if your playing a 2 player game and both of you need to recharge your wiichuck Move/SubCons at the same time. Aren't there only 2 USB ports on the PS3? and do you think the SubCon will come with it's own cable?
Lets say you are only playing 1 player and you need to charge your Move/SubCon at the same time. Would you rather switch out some rechargeable batteries and have your wiichuck tethered to each other, or would you rather tether yourself to your $300 Everything Machine hooked up to your real expensive 3D HDTV?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 10, 2010, 09:34:29 PM
Yeah! you tell that random poster on here instead of where he or she originally posted! GIVE HIM/HER HELL!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 09:40:40 PM
Yeah! you tell that random poster on here instead of where he or she originally posted! GIVE HIM/HER HELL!
I'm still editing that post, but I'm not making an account at Kotaku just to call them on their FUD and get lost in some sort of flame war. I let you guys know it full of **** and we can all just ignore them and their opinion, flame war avoided.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 10, 2010, 09:43:12 PM
It'll be interesting to see how many companies put out patches to their old content that incorporates the Move, especially 2K Games (Bioshocks 1 & 2) and Naughty Dog (Uncharteds 1 & 2). So far the only company we've seen do this is Capcom with RE5 (and I suppose Sony-owned Media Molecule as well with the LittleBigPlanet stuff). I'd be surprised if Sony didn't work something out with Kojima to do something with Metal Gear Solid 4 and the Move.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 10, 2010, 09:48:00 PM
I thought Arc was a bad name, but "Move" is horrible and is easily the worst accessory name I can remember (did Sony even bother market testing the name?). And if it costs $100? That will all but guarantee it fails. Sony continues its slide down this gen with terrible PR move after terrible decisions, Sony has done very few things right.
brood, didn't Capcom say they are releasing a new version of Resident Evil 5 that will support it? I don't think they said anything about releasing a patch so that owners of the game (and the Gold edition) can use PlayStation Move.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 09:50:11 PM
No wasted batteries: The Wii remote sucks up AA battery juice. The Move and its companion sub-controller are rechargeable via the same mini-USB connection used to charge the PS3's main controller.
No wire!: The Wii Remote and Nunchuk are tethered by a short cable. The PS3 Move and its subcontroller are not.
This raises the same concern that I had earlier. What if your playing a 2 player game and both of you need to recharge your wiichuck Move/SubCons at the same time. Aren't there only 2 USB ports on the PS3? and do you think the SubCon will come with it's own cable?
Lets say you are only playing 1 player and you need to charge your Move/SubCon at the same time. Would you rather switch out some rechargeable batteries and have your wiichuck tethered to each other, or would you rather tether yourself to your $300 Everything Machine hooked up to your real expensive 3D HDTV?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 09:54:08 PM
brood, didn't Capcom say they are releasing a new version of Resident Evil 5 that will support it? I don't think they said anything about releasing a patch so that owners of the game (and the Gold edition) can use PlayStation Move.
That was before Sony delayed Gem uhhhh Arc i mean Move from Spring 2010 to Fall of 2010.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 10, 2010, 09:56:13 PM
Even if they do release a patch, I think it's safe to assume Capcom would still re-release the game anyways (and call it something like Resident Evil 5: Move Edition).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 09:57:05 PM
Hopefully they finally down-port it to Wii at the same time.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 10, 2010, 09:57:43 PM
brood, didn't Capcom say they are releasing a new version of Resident Evil 5 that will support it? I don't think they said anything about releasing a patch so that owners of the game (and the Gold edition) can use PlayStation Move.
Considering the Gold Edition content is already available to North American owners of the original version via DLC (and, for that matter, was available before the Gold Edition released), it isn't a stretch to hypothesize that they'll do something similar with Alternative Edition in the West. It's just easier and more economical after the Gold Edition has already hit stores just to sell it as DLC, especially since the number of fans who would actually be interested in it would be relatively low. I don't think Capcom's stupid enough to try re-releasing the same game twice in retail in the same year on the same console. They'd have to recall all the old Gold Editions again.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 10, 2010, 10:08:25 PM
I actually think the Move is a great idea....for Nintendo. Hear me out.
What's Nintendo's biggest problem? Third-party support, right? Well if developers are willing to focus on motion controllers because of Sony's take on it, then they should be more willing to port any games they make to the Wii, because of Wii's enormous user-base. This will also mean that there will be fewer Wii exclusives, but more developers as a whole making motion games. This will help Nintendo out because developers can finally compare, realistically, how games perform.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 10, 2010, 10:09:44 PM
I actually think the Move is a great idea....for Nintendo. Hear me out.
What's Nintendo's biggest problem? Third-party support, right? Well if developers are willing to focus on motion controllers because of Sony's take on it, then they should be more willing to port any games they make to the Wii, because of Wii's enormous user-base. This will also mean that there will be fewer Wii exclusives, but more developers as a whole making motion games. This will help Nintendo out because developers can finally compare, realistically, how games perform.
One problem; Wii isn't HD and they're not willing to downport
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2010, 10:13:30 PM
This invites more developers to make more expensive casual flops. Go for it, industry.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 10, 2010, 10:17:38 PM
I actually think the Move is a great idea....for Nintendo. Hear me out.
What's Nintendo's biggest problem? Third-party support, right? Well if developers are willing to focus on motion controllers because of Sony's take on it, then they should be more willing to port any games they make to the Wii, because of Wii's enormous user-base. This will also mean that there will be fewer Wii exclusives, but more developers as a whole making motion games. This will help Nintendo out because developers can finally compare, realistically, how games perform.
One problem; Wii isn't HD and they're not willing to downport
Exactly. The Wii's impotence when it comes to HD is a serious barrier to that kind of multiplatform development. Plus, there's a little problem with the PS3 having a significantly different user base from the Wii. Motion Control Games that might sell well with the PS3's core-centric audience might not sell well with Nintendo's casual-centric Wii audience (and definitely vice-versa, which is why Sony's casual Move games are going to fail miserably).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 10, 2010, 10:18:57 PM
I actually think the Move is a great idea....for Nintendo. Hear me out.
What's Nintendo's biggest problem? Third-party support, right? Well if developers are willing to focus on motion controllers because of Sony's take on it, then they should be more willing to port any games they make to the Wii, because of Wii's enormous user-base. This will also mean that there will be fewer Wii exclusives, but more developers as a whole making motion games. This will help Nintendo out because developers can finally compare, realistically, how games perform.
One problem; Wii isn't HD and they're not willing to downport
But they are willing to upgrade? Surely the street goes both ways.
I actually think the Move is a great idea....for Nintendo. Hear me out.
What's Nintendo's biggest problem? Third-party support, right? Well if developers are willing to focus on motion controllers because of Sony's take on it, then they should be more willing to port any games they make to the Wii, because of Wii's enormous user-base. This will also mean that there will be fewer Wii exclusives, but more developers as a whole making motion games. This will help Nintendo out because developers can finally compare, realistically, how games perform.
One problem; Wii isn't HD and they're not willing to downport
Exactly. The Wii's impotence when it comes to HD is a serious barrier to that kind of multiplatform development. Plus, there's a little problem with the PS3 having a significantly different user base from the Wii. Motion Control Games that might sell well with the PS3's core-centric audience might not sell well with Nintendo's casual-centric Wii audience (and definitely vice-versa, which is why Sony's casual Move games are going to fail miserably).
That's BULLSHIT and you know it! "Different audiences"? I'm sure the Wii has just as many "core" gamers if not MORE than the PS3.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 10, 2010, 10:22:19 PM
But they are willing to upgrade? Surely the street goes both ways.
It's a lot cheaper to take their existing Wii games and port them to PlayStation 3, all they would have to do is add Trophy support. The problem for any port though is that the PlayStation Move would have to be a success (and I don't think it will be if the rumored price of $99.99 is correct).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 10, 2010, 10:27:46 PM
Exactly. The Wii's impotence when it comes to HD is a serious barrier to that kind of multiplatform development. Plus, there's a little problem with the PS3 having a significantly different user base from the Wii. Motion Control Games that might sell well with the PS3's core-centric audience might not sell well with Nintendo's casual-centric Wii audience (and definitely vice-versa, which is why Sony's casual Move games are going to fail miserably).
That's BULL**** and you know it! "Different audiences"? I'm sure the Wii has just as many "core" gamers if not MORE than the PS3.
We've been over this time and time again, and I'm really not interested in rehashing it yet again. Besides, I was talking about the majority of the audience, the ones who largely buy the games and drive the market. Developers looking at the two platforms will be looking for the largest possible audience they can tap into, to play to that console's strengths. Did I say the Wii didn't have core gamers? I said the Wii was casual-centric, which it is and that's never going to change considering how Nintendo has chosen to market the device.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on March 10, 2010, 10:28:00 PM
Wait, so they actually did put a disco-ball on it?!
:o
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 10:28:18 PM
I actually think the Move is a great idea....for Nintendo. Hear me out.
What's Nintendo's biggest problem? Third-party support, right? Well if developers are willing to focus on motion controllers because of Sony's take on it, then they should be more willing to port any games they make to the Wii, because of Wii's enormous user-base. This will also mean that there will be fewer Wii exclusives, but more developers as a whole making motion games. This will help Nintendo out because developers can finally compare, realistically, how games perform.
One problem; Wii isn't HD and they're not willing to downport
But they are willing to upgrade? Surely the street goes both ways.
This is what I'm thinking. Most 3rd party excuses have been either HD vs SD or Motion vs Classic. If they are making games for Move that don't necessarily work on Natal, they may still want to release it multi plat and downgrade the graphics for the enormous Wii audience instead of leaving it Move exclusive where it has a really small audience.
If they game was made with motion controls in mind from the start, then the cost of developing SD & HD assets shouldn't be that difficult if they plan the Wii/Move release from the start.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 10, 2010, 10:41:06 PM
I actually think the Move is a great idea....for Nintendo. Hear me out.
What's Nintendo's biggest problem? Third-party support, right? Well if developers are willing to focus on motion controllers because of Sony's take on it, then they should be more willing to port any games they make to the Wii, because of Wii's enormous user-base. This will also mean that there will be fewer Wii exclusives, but more developers as a whole making motion games. This will help Nintendo out because developers can finally compare, realistically, how games perform.
One problem; Wii isn't HD and they're not willing to downport
But they are willing to upgrade? Surely the street goes both ways.
Not to the cool kids that do 100mph in a school zone down the dead end street.
Metaphor for Sony (and the like), in their little arms race, thinking you could sell a polished turn to the masses obsessed with their little HD fad (http://consumerist.com/2009/09/hd-sunglasses-use-the-power-of-stupidity-to-increase-real-world-resolution.html), but think the market leading console is too beneath them to bother making any core-games (with effort)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 10, 2010, 10:45:45 PM
Exactly. The Wii's impotence when it comes to HD is a serious barrier to that kind of multiplatform development. Plus, there's a little problem with the PS3 having a significantly different user base from the Wii. Motion Control Games that might sell well with the PS3's core-centric audience might not sell well with Nintendo's casual-centric Wii audience (and definitely vice-versa, which is why Sony's casual Move games are going to fail miserably).
That's BULL**** and you know it! "Different audiences"? I'm sure the Wii has just as many "core" gamers if not MORE than the PS3.
We've been over this time and time again, and I'm really not interested in rehashing it yet again. Besides, I was talking about the majority of the audience, the ones who largely buy the games and drive the market. Developers looking at the two platforms will be looking for the largest possible audience they can tap into, to play to that console's strengths. Did I say the Wii didn't have core gamers? I said the Wii was casual-centric, which it is and that's never going to change considering how Nintendo has chosen to market the device.
Yeah umm...I think you mistook what I was saying. Look at BnM's post. The user base for "Move" is going to be dismally small. So any games that are made that are not intrinsically exclusive, should be carefully considered to bring to the Wii.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 10, 2010, 10:52:00 PM
Call me a cynic but if wii gets any down-ports of Move games, they'll be the "casual" Move games.. and probably their Spin-offs:
PS3 = Let the Rythm Move You (in HD) Wii = Wii Like the Rythm; Dance Party (crappier than ps1 visuals)
Seriously, how many times have we heard "..that type of game wouldn't be possible on wii"
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 10, 2010, 11:06:15 PM
Well I think the most common excuse is "that type of game doesn't SELL on Wii". If they're committing to Move, which will only have a few million users at first, then it's in their financial interests to port to Wii. I'd argue that there are more core gamers on Wii, than there will be Move users for a considerable length of time.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Invincible Donkey Kong on March 10, 2010, 11:09:54 PM
I am both amused and a little disappointed at this pathetically predictable response from Sony. :reggie:
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 10, 2010, 11:11:11 PM
"at first"? I think PlayStation Move will be lucky to ever sell millions, especially if it is $100. The only way I can see it having a install base of millions is if Sony bundles it with the PlayStation 3.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 10, 2010, 11:14:05 PM
Well I think the most common excuse is "that type of game doesn't SELL on Wii". If they're committing to Move, which will only have a few million users at first, then it's in their financial interests to port to Wii. I'd argue that there are more core gamers on Wii, than there will be Move users for a considerable length of time.
Alright, let's look at it from your typical 3rd party's point-of-view: if you're going to commit resources to a project you're not sure is even going to sell on your intended console, why would you commit even more resources making a downgraded port to a console that has not traditionally shown sales for your kind of game? I don't doubt we'll see a lot of casual stuff crossing between systems, because those are fairly inexpensive to shift between HD and SD resources. It's not out-of-the-question that we could see some core MC stuff being developed PS3 & Wii now, but I just wonder if we'll see more than a few token games. Even if we do, will Wii core gamers (who have already proven themselves very selective over the past 3 years) settle for the PS3's sloppy seconds, or will we quickly hear the complaints that the game "should be developed with the Wii in mind first, and then upgraded for the PS3 because we're the market leader damnit and we deserve it!"?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2010, 11:15:41 PM
Alright, let's look at it from your typical 3rd party's point-of-view: if you're going to commit resources to a project you're not sure is even going to sell on your intended console, why would you commit even more resources making a downgraded port to a console that has not traditionally shown sales for your kind of game?
Probably because the cost of downporting to the wii could be the difference to breaking even or losing tons of money on a Move Exclusive that doesn't have the audience to support the cost of a Move HD exclusive.
Quote
I don't doubt we'll see a lot of casual stuff crossing between systems, because those are fairly inexpensive to shift between HD and SD resources. It's not out-of-the-question that we could see some core MC stuff being developed PS3 & Wii now, but I just wonder if we'll see more than a few token games. Even if we do, will Wii core gamers (who have already proven themselves very selective over the past 3 years) settle for the PS3's sloppy seconds, or will we quickly hear the complaints that the game "should be developed with the Wii in mind first, and then upgraded for the PS3 because we're the market leader damnit and we deserve it!"?
All the games have to do is come out at the same time and then the Wii version can share the advertising of the PS3Move version and no one will complain as long as they are both developed side by side and both are quality.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 02:40:34 AM
Press Release
OVERVIEW
PlayStation®Move offers a new and innovative gaming experience for the PlayStation®3 (PS3™) system by fusing realistic, high-definition gaming along with accurate, intuitive control. Consisting of PlayStation®Move motion controller, PlayStation®Move sub-controller and PlayStation®Eye camera, PlayStation Move enables sophisticated motion control and immersive gameplay only possible on the PS3 system.
PLAYSTATION®MOVE MOTION CONTROLLER
The corner stone of PlayStation Move, PlayStation Move motion controller combines advanced motion sensors, a dynamic color changing sphere, vibration feedback, and an easy to use button interface. Equipped with three-axis gyroscope, three-axis accelerometer and terrestrial magnetic field sensor, PlayStation Move motion controller tracks the precise movements and the angle of the controller. The PS3 system also detects the absolute position of the controller in 3D space by using PlayStation Eye camera. Highly sensitive movement tracking can be accurately traced back to the game, allowing intuitive gameplay as if the player is within the game.
KEY FEATURES: o Works with PlayStation Eye camera to accurately track player position o Includes action buttons of DUALSHOCK®3 and SIXAXIS® wireless controller for direct input o Sleek and Wireless o Built-in rechargeable Li-ion battery o Advanced motion sensors in the controller precisely track both fast and subtle movements o Color of the sphere's light provides visual feedback during gameplay o Vibration feedback is felt during specific actions o Bluetooth® technology supports wireless gaming o Simultaneously use up to four motion controllers with a PS3 system o Charge the controller and automatically pair it with the PS3 system via a USB cable (Type A - Mini-B)
PLAYSTATION®MOVE SUB-CONTROLLER
PlayStation Move sub controller is a supplementary controller, developed to further expand the experience that PlayStation Move games can offer. It can be used in most PlayStation Move games that require navigating an in-game character as it replicates the control features of the left side of DUALSHOCK 3 and SIXAXIS wireless controller into one’s PlayStation Move experience. PlayStation Move sub controller adds an analog stick, directional buttons and two face buttons into the PlayStation Move's control scheme. In addition, the sub-controller contains the L1 button, L2 button and L3 button for actions and commands common in advanced gaming.
KEY FEAURES: o Wireless control completely untethered from PlayStation Move motion controller o Intuitive navigation of in-game characters o Easy and intuitive XMB™ menu navigation o Built-in rechargeable Li-ion battery o Charge the controller and automatically pair it with the PS3 system via a USB cable (Type A - Mini-B) o Sleek curved body design that easily pairs with the motion controller
Note: DUALSHOCK 3 and SIXAXIS wireless controller can be used in place of the sub controller for all games that are compatible with the sub controller
PLAYSTATION®EYE CAMERA
As an integral part of PlayStation Move, PlayStation Eye camera is designed specifically to work with the next generation of PlayStation Move gaming titles being developed for the PS3 system. When used with PlayStation Move motion controller, PlayStation Eye camera precisely tracks a user’s movement and the motion controller’s sphere to help bring every move into the game. In addition, PlayStation Eye camera captures a player’s voice or image and when combined together with PlayStation Move games, will bring a whole new entertainment experience to user only possible on the PlayStation® platform.
KEY FEAURES: o Engineered to perform in low-light conditions so that the rooms do not have to be lit brightly for the camera to deliver crisp, perfectly exposed video o Two position zoom lens for close-up and full body options o At 60 frames per second, captures a sharp, clear picture at 640 x 480 resolutions o Frame rate of up to 120 frames per second for improved tracking, responsiveness and smoothness o A sophisticated microphone with the ability to reduce background noise and focus on spoken word for smoother, more accurate speech recognition
PRICING AND AVAILABLILITY: Available in North America fall 2010. Pricing to be announced.
Third Party Developers and Publishers Supporting PlayStation®Move platform
Company Name (in alphabetical order, as of March 10, 2010)
505 Games U.S. Activision Publishing, Inc. AQ INTERACTIVE Inc. ARC SYSTEMS WORK CO.,LTD ATLUS Co., LTD. Bigben Interactive CAPCOM CO., LTD. CCP Crave Entertainment CYBERFRONT Corporation Disney Interactive Studios Electronic Arts Inc. FromSoftware, Inc. Game Republic, Inc. GUST CO., LTD. HUDSON SOFT CO., LTD IREM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING INC. Koei Co., Ltd. Konami Digital Entertainment Co., Ltd. Majesco Entertainment Marvelous Entertainment Inc. NAMCO BANDAI Games Inc. ONGAKUKAN Co., Ltd. Oxygen Games PAON CORPORATION Q Entertainment Inc. Q-GAMES, LTD. SEGA CORPORATION Sony Online Entertainment Spike Co., Ltd. SQUARE ENIX GROUP TECMO, LTD. THQ Inc. UBISOFT® Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Zoo Entertainment, Inc.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on March 11, 2010, 02:56:17 AM
I went and looked at the pictures too. They are basically Nintendo's sports games and a few eye toy games thrown in. Most of the games seem to be direct copies from Wii Sports Resort.
Consider me underwhelmed.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Kairon on March 11, 2010, 02:58:53 AM
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on March 11, 2010, 03:03:42 AM
Wasn't there an EyeToy game called Move?
If the SubCon (is it controlled by Wart?) and Move controller are both connected wirelessly... is the SubCon communicating with the Move or is it a separate bluetooth device for the PS3? Because I seem to recall hearing about a hard limit of 7 bluetooth devices for the PS3...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Shaymin on March 11, 2010, 07:43:35 AM
Line of the night: "Sony released the WiiHD so Nintendo wouldn't have to"
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caliban on March 11, 2010, 10:30:54 AM
That's the one thing that caught my attention. I looked into it on google, but I have no clue how it could be used in the gaming field. A one seriously big WTF.
To me it seems the Arc will have less problems with calibration. The gyroscope on the Wii Motion Plus is a cool technology, and it works , but it just seems to me that its calibration issues are going to be an obstacle for developers and gamers.
Actually I am mistaken lol. I read on kotaku that they had to calibrate when changing games, which doesn't seem that bad because at least it's not needing to calibrate ever so often, but the need to calibrate is still there.
$100? *sigh* I guess it makes sense. $40 for the camera, and $50 for the Move. What about the Sub-Controller, how much is it going to cost? My bets are on $29.99.
All in all, I would say that with Sony and Microsoft releasing their versions of waggling instruments is just a preemptive for Nintendo to release something even better and cheaper.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: MegaByte on March 11, 2010, 10:37:52 AM
The terrestrial magnetic field sensor, more commonly known as a magnetometer, can be used to keep track of orientation in conjunction with the accelerometer and gyroscope. This is how it can keep accurate track of your movements even if the camera can't see you. It's also used as a compass in cell phones.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caliban on March 11, 2010, 10:39:36 AM
terrestrial magnetic field sensor (http://www.sensorsmag.com/sensors/electric-magnetic/a-new-perspective-magnetic-field-sensing-855)
"Magnetic sensors, on the other hand, detect changes, or disturbances, in magnetic fields that have been created or modified, and from them derive information on properties such as direction, presence, rotation, angle, or electrical currents. The output signal of these sensors requires some signal processing for translation into the desired parameter. Although magnetic detectors are somewhat more difficult to use, they do provide accurate and reliable data — without physical contact."
So basically Sony added on to the device an extra layer of precision.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 10:50:59 AM
Line of the night: "Sony released the WiiHD so Nintendo wouldn't have to"
My #1 Candidate for Line of the Night goes to Gamestop's on the floor Rep. While talking to Zipper and numerous other Sony Dev's about games using Move he would say something along the lines of: "Can you tell me more about Wii Motion....uhhh, Wii Move..... sorry, Playstation Move?"
He said this so many times throughout the night of GS Live from the floor coverage, that I'm surprised the Devs kept talking to him.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 11:39:43 AM
PlayStation®Move offers a new and innovative gaming experience for the PlayStation®3 (PS3™) system by fusing realistic, high-definition gaming along with accurate, intuitive control. Consisting of PlayStation®Move motion controller, PlayStation®Move sub-controller and PlayStation®Eye camera, PlayStation Move enables sophisticated motion control and immersive gameplay only possible on the PS3 system.
PLAYSTATION®MOVE MOTION CONTROLLER
The corner stone of PlayStation Move, PlayStation Move motion controller combines advanced motion sensors, a dynamic color changing sphere, vibration feedback, and an easy to use button interface. Equipped with three-axis gyroscope, three-axis accelerometer and terrestrial magnetic field sensor, PlayStation Move motion controller tracks the precise movements and the angle of the controller. The PS3 system also detects the absolute position of the controller in 3D space by using PlayStation Eye camera. Highly sensitive movement tracking can be accurately traced back to the game, allowing intuitive gameplay as if the player is within the game.
KEY FEATURES: o Works with PlayStation Eye camera to accurately track player position o Includes action buttons of DUALSHOCK®3 and SIXAXIS® wireless controller for direct input o Sleek and Wireless o Built-in rechargeable Li-ion battery o Advanced motion sensors in the controller precisely track both fast and subtle movements o Color of the sphere's light provides visual feedback during gameplay o Vibration feedback is felt during specific actions o Bluetooth® technology supports wireless gaming o Simultaneously use up to four motion controllers with a PS3 system o Charge the controller and automatically pair it with the PS3 system via a USB cable (Type A - Mini-B)
PLAYSTATION®MOVE SUB-CONTROLLER
PlayStation Move sub controller is a supplementary controller, developed to further expand the experience that PlayStation Move games can offer. It can be used in most PlayStation Move games that require navigating an in-game character as it replicates the control features of the left side of DUALSHOCK 3 and SIXAXIS wireless controller into one’s PlayStation Move experience. PlayStation Move sub controller adds an analog stick, directional buttons and two face buttons into the PlayStation Move's control scheme. In addition, the sub-controller contains the L1 button, L2 button and L3 button for actions and commands common in advanced gaming.
KEY FEAURES: o Wireless control completely untethered from PlayStation Move motion controller o Intuitive navigation of in-game characters o Easy and intuitive XMB™ menu navigation o Built-in rechargeable Li-ion battery o Charge the controller and automatically pair it with the PS3 system via a USB cable (Type A - Mini-B) o Sleek curved body design that easily pairs with the motion controller
Note: DUALSHOCK 3 and SIXAXIS wireless controller can be used in place of the sub controller for all games that are compatible with the sub controller
PLAYSTATION®EYE CAMERA
As an integral part of PlayStation Move, PlayStation Eye camera is designed specifically to work with the next generation of PlayStation Move gaming titles being developed for the PS3 system. When used with PlayStation Move motion controller, PlayStation Eye camera precisely tracks a user’s movement and the motion controller’s sphere to help bring every move into the game. In addition, PlayStation Eye camera captures a player’s voice or image and when combined together with PlayStation Move games, will bring a whole new entertainment experience to user only possible on the PlayStation® platform.
KEY FEAURES: o Engineered to perform in low-light conditions so that the rooms do not have to be lit brightly for the camera to deliver crisp, perfectly exposed video o Two position zoom lens for close-up and full body options o At 60 frames per second, captures a sharp, clear picture at 640 x 480 resolutions o Frame rate of up to 120 frames per second for improved tracking, responsiveness and smoothness o A sophisticated microphone with the ability to reduce background noise and focus on spoken word for smoother, more accurate speech recognition
PRICING AND AVAILABLILITY: Available in North America fall 2010. Pricing to be announced.
Third Party Developers and Publishers Supporting PlayStation®Move platform
Company Name (in alphabetical order, as of March 10, 2010)
505 Games U.S. Activision Publishing, Inc. AQ INTERACTIVE Inc. ARC SYSTEMS WORK CO.,LTD ATLUS Co., LTD. Bigben Interactive CAPCOM CO., LTD. CCP Crave Entertainment CYBERFRONT Corporation Disney Interactive Studios Electronic Arts Inc. FromSoftware, Inc. Game Republic, Inc. GUST CO., LTD. HUDSON SOFT CO., LTD IREM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING INC. Koei Co., Ltd. Konami Digital Entertainment Co., Ltd. Majesco Entertainment Marvelous Entertainment Inc. NAMCO BANDAI Games Inc. ONGAKUKAN Co., Ltd. Oxygen Games PAON CORPORATION Q Entertainment Inc. Q-GAMES, LTD. SEGA CORPORATION Sony Online Entertainment Spike Co., Ltd. SQUARE ENIX GROUP TECMO, LTD. THQ Inc. UBISOFT® Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Zoo Entertainment, Inc.
PlayStation®Move motion controller
Product name: PlayStation®Move motion controller Product code: CECH-ZCM1 Release date: Fall 2010 Recommended retail price: To be decided Color: Black Mass: Approx. 145 g External dimension: Approx. 200mm X 46mm (height X diameter) Battery type: Built-in, rechargeable lithium-ion battery Voltage: DC 3.7 V Operating temperature: 5 degrees C ~ 35 degrees C
PlayStation®Move sub-controller
Product name: PlayStation®Move sub-controller Product code: CECH-ZCS1 Release date: Fall 2010 Recommended retail price: To be decided Color: Black Mass: Approx. 95 g External dimension: Approx. 138mm X 42mm (height X diameter) Battery type: Built-in, rechargeable lithium-ion batter Voltage: DC 3.7 V Operating temperature: 5 degrees C ~ 35 degrees C
(http://i.imgur.com/cU9u9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BSEXG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DiS5a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0QnGQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HZJJW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DQP3f.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Bl6Gb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/18WCK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EHpox.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jAcjK.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 12:20:38 PM
Engadget: PlayStation Move first hands-on (update: video!) (http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/10/playstation-move-first-hands-on/)
Quote
The controllers are light. Much more akin to the DualShock3 than the Wiimote in heft, and we're guessing that's due to Sony's continued love of rechargeable batteries.
The main controller does have some subtle vibration (not DualShock or Wiimote level, but present), but we're not sure yet about the subcontroller.
We hate to say this about "pre-alpha" software, but we're feeling lag. An on-rails shooter we tried out, dubbed The Shoot, was discernibly inferior to shooting experiences we've had on the Wii, both in precision and refresh rate of the aiming cursor.
The gladiator game is about as fun as it looks, we'll have video after the break momentarily. Unfortunately, while it's less of a defined experience than something like the sword game on Wii Sports Resort, you're still working through a library of sensed, pre-defined actions instead of a true 1:1 fighting game with simulated physics. Not that it isn't possible with PlayStation Move, just that it's not this.
The lightness of the controllers means we might be feeling less of that Wiimote fatigue, always a good thing! There's an aspect of the controller that feels a little cheap, but at the same time we wouldn't call it fragile.
As far as we can tell, the control scheme for Socom 4 is quite similar to dual-controller shooter setups on the Wii, with the camera moving based on your aiming cursor hitting the edge. It's hard to see this as the preferred hardcore setup, but we're told it's configurable, so we'll try and see what else is on offer.
The system seemed to have a bit of trouble understanding the configuration of our body in a swordfighting stance: even though we selected "left handed," it was putting our sword arm forward instead of our shield. Right-handers didn't seem to have similar problems, and we're sure this will be ironed out in time, but it certainly shows that the controllers aren't magical in their space-detection prowess.
As would be expected, you're supposed to stand relatively center on the TV, and at a certain optimal distance. The system is forgiving, but there's a sweet spot that users will undoubtedly have to learn.
Lag is less prominent on Socom 4, and we'd say we're pretty accurate with the controller already, though the framerate choppiness of this pre-alpha build obviously hampers that a bit. We did get a slight feel of being in "scene to scene" shootouts instead of a free-roaming FPS, perhaps a design choice to mitigate the limited camera movement offered by the controller, but we'll have to see more levels to know for sure.[/l][/l]
[/list]
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 12:35:27 PM
The Shoot = The Lag
we might be feeling less of that Wiimote fatigue = Weak Man Children
perhaps a design choice to mitigate the limited camera movement offered by the controller = HD gaming, prepare to get Casualized
Give my Conduit control scheme a try.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 12:46:20 PM
Regarding third party support I think the hardware difference has always been the main concern. I think for example that Capcom had every intention of porting Dead Rising to the Wii but ran into a wall regarding the hardware and realized they couldn't get the amount of zombies on screen that they wanted so they busted out this Chop 'Til You Drop nonsense. It isn't just HD support making the difference. The more powerful hardware allows for more objects on screen, better framerate, more complicated AI, larger open spaces. It's not as simple as making the graphics look less nice. The secondary reason was the core vs. casual stuff. The controller wasn't really the issue so I don't things will change unless Nintendo matches the PS3 hardware. Multiplatform development should be as effortless as possible. Nintendo fails regarding it because there are too many hurdles. "Well if you just put in the extra effort..." **** that. That's a lame excuse. Nintendo always has excuses.
The price for this seems high but I think we really should see this as like a new console. I really doubt Sony has the PS4 on the doorstep. It took them years to get the price down to something reasonable. If they upped the hardware again they would just create the same problem again. This is all Sony can do to create a next gen of games. So on that note it's like a new console at $400, but if you already have the regular PS3 you can upgrade for $100. That ain't Wii cheap but it's not PS3 launch bad. Going from a Wii to this is pricey but don't look at it as buying a second console. This would be like buying a successor, a new console to go with a new gen. If/when Nintendo releases a successor for the Wii THIS is what it will compete with. Sony and MS are showing this instead of new consoles. Nintendo is the only one that has to release a brand new console because their hardware is too out-of-date.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 12:59:49 PM
Correction from an earlier post
Quote
A smarter controller: I played SOCOM 4, a third person-shooter, with the Move pointed at the TV like a gun and the sub-controller in my left hand to command character movement. Wii games that were controlled with Remote and Nunchuk could be befuddled if the player pointed the Remote away from the screen. If you were playing a shooter and aimed just off the screen, the game's camera might start spinning or the game would pause and ask for the player to point at the TV again.
The guys from Ubisoft said this problem was solved with the inclusion of M+ and that you could technically even shoot at enemies that were off screen. They were playing around with it for Red Steel 2(I'm sure ShyGuy could find the interview). Still not as accurate as PSEye/Move(for off screen tracking), but it works exactly the same as if someone where blocking the camera like the Kotaku person said.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 01:13:09 PM
"Capcom had every intention of porting Dead Rising to the Wii but ran into a wall regarding the hardware"
Boy, they sure did. Their 5th-rate port dev had tons of trouble getting simple things right.
"It's not as simple as making the graphics look less nice."
Yes, it's that simple. Oneechanbara has streets, hospitals, whatever, full of zombies, runs at a solid 60fps, and presents itself much better than Flop Till You Port.
"Well if you just put in the extra effort..."
Then you might make good games. Nintendo puts in extra effort on things that count.
"Going from a Wii to this is pricey but don't look at it as buying a second console."
Another console is a second console, especially if it launches with knock-offs of games that came out 4 years ago. You say these things, but do YOU even want this? What are you on?
I don't even think you've sank your teeth into Wii Sports Resort, so just get out.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 01:17:10 PM
Regarding third party support I think the hardware difference has always been the main concern. I think for example that Capcom had every intention of porting Dead Rising to the Wii but ran into a wall regarding the hardware and realized they couldn't get the amount of zombies on screen that they wanted so they busted out this Chop 'Til You Drop nonsense. It isn't just HD support making the difference. The more powerful hardware allows for more objects on screen, better framerate, more complicated AI, larger open spaces. It's not as simple as making the graphics look less nice. The secondary reason was the core vs. casual stuff. The controller wasn't really the issue so I don't things will change unless Nintendo matches the PS3 hardware. Multiplatform development should be as effortless as possible. Nintendo fails regarding it because there are too many hurdles. "Well if you just put in the extra effort..." **** that. That's a lame excuse. Nintendo always has excuses.
Capcom didn't even make Chop Till You Drop, CTYD didn't come out till like a year after the original and obviously you haven't seen Samurai Warrior 3. dozens upon dozens of individual enemies on screen at the same time with a solid frame rate. Capcom didn't even try and there is no reason to make excuses for them. You need hardware like PS3 to do the same game in HD, but the games can be scaled down to SD. They were making the same exact games that they are making now in HD for the PS2 & Xbox last gen in SD and the Wii is more powerful than either of those. Lets stop being the enabler by making excuses for them
The price for this seems high but I think we really should see this as like a new console. I really doubt Sony has the PS4 on the doorstep. It took them years to get the price down to something reasonable. If they upped the hardware again they would just create the same problem again. This is all Sony can do to create a next gen of games. So on that note it's like a new console at $400, but if you already have the regular PS3 you can upgrade for $100. That ain't Wii cheap but it's not PS3 launch bad. Going from a Wii to this is pricey but don't look at it as buying a second console. This would be like buying a successor, a new console to go with a new gen. If/when Nintendo releases a successor for the Wii THIS is what it will compete with. Sony and MS are showing this instead of new consoles. Nintendo is the only one that has to release a brand new console because their hardware is too out-of-date.
Your right. Sony has just revealed WiiHD, but what I'm actually waiting for is Wii2. We don't want more of the same, we want something new.
What Sony has done (going by that conference) is taken all our favorite hand drawn animated cartoons and bastardized them with 3D computer animation instead of doing something original.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 01:24:59 PM
A smarter controller: I played SOCOM 4, a third person-shooter, with the Move pointed at the TV like a gun and the sub-controller in my left hand to command character movement. Wii games that were controlled with Remote and Nunchuk could be befuddled if the player pointed the Remote away from the screen. If you were playing a shooter and aimed just off the screen, the game's camera might start spinning or the game would pause and ask for the player to point at the TV again.
The guys from Ubisoft said this problem was solved with the inclusion of M+ and that you could technically even shoot at enemies that were off screen. They were playing around with it for Red Steel 2(I'm sure ShyGuy could find the interview). Still not as accurate as PSEye/Move(for off screen tracking), but it works exactly the same as if someone where blocking the camera like the Kotaku person said.
In other words, there hasn't been anything to cry about since Metroid Prime 3 provided the re-centering Stand-By function for the cursor (and Conduit can wait where your cursor last left the screen). For these shooty games, your TV screen is basically the available range of an Analog Stick, or better yet, a mousepad. The camera will spin fastest when the cursor approaches the edges of the screen, so please, learn to not fly off your freakin' mousepad, last-generation gamers. There was a time gamers were thought of as intelligent, adaptive, and dependable -- all myths?
If you can't positively see and interact with something on your screen, then the controls are not the issue, tell whoever it is to get the **** out of the way of your Casual Gaming.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 01:42:37 PM
Quote
You say these things, but do YOU even want this? What are you on?
Well I already have a PS3 and right now that plus the Wii is sufficient. It's all about the games. I'm pretty cynical about motion control. I think, frankly, that it's a lame gimmick. No one has sold me on it yet. So we'll see if anyone can. I'm not interested in Move until it shows me something that I just have to play. Same with M+ (Zelda will probably do it). I would see it more like a new console generation though. I actually would probably wait until the Wii2 was revealed and factor that into my decision.
One thing to note is that no one really though a game were you have to pay $100 for a guitar controller would take off and even after it did people were skeptical about whether there was a market for a game that required you to buy several instrument controllers and yet it took off. Now I know the music genre is fading out but if you make that game that people just HAVE to have, they'll spend the money. No one but Nintendo thought that non-gamers would buy a videogame console but they did once they saw Wii Sports. There could always be a game released for the Move that people are so interested in that they'll buy all the stuff they need for it without batting an eye.
What excites me about this is that it will put pressure on Nintendo to get their act together. I feel they're coasting. This eliminates the whole uniqueness of the Wii. Hell, the Wii is, on paper, now disadvantaged. The Move may never have a worthwhile game on it but the threat of that will keep Nintendo on their toes, at least at first.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 02:05:32 PM
Wii is an idea, not a controller. The full spectrum encompasses:
- "Sports" - "Fitness" - "Racing" - Lightgun & Classic "Arcadey" Gaming - Nintendo's meaty adventures (which don't have as much pull as the top 3, believe it)
The music genre, platform agnostic, had an explosive period, but it's been steered to be unsustainable. Wii's spectrum continues to keep it advantaged. Sony's limited scope and experience is keeping them disadvantaged. "SMove" has to demonstrate that copying one aspect of the Wii (and copying the fail'd knockoff software that flooded Wii) is sustainable, and not a fad.
Sony is 4 years late to Nintendo's game and almost halfway done with their PS3 "10-yr plan." Will they spend the next 6 years copying more of their competitor's products? Is this how it's supposed to move forward?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
Quote
Sony is 4 years late to Nintendo's game and almost halfway done with their PS3 "10-yr plan." Will they spend the next 6 years copying more of their competitor's products? Is this how it's supposed to move forward?
I think this moves the PS3 forward a lot more than just doing nothing. Times have changed and motion control is an expected feature. So Sony has adapted their console accordingly. Nintendo is behind the times as well, just in a different way than Sony and MS were. And Nintendo is still behind while Sony is not. The PS3 now has virtually no restrictions in regards to game design. It has motion control, normal controls, multiplayer, online play, a hard drive, HD support, and it's the most powerful console. If you want to make a game on the PS3 the sky is the limit. If you can't make your game on that console you can't make it on any console. But the Wii? From DAY ONE it was restricted. As a gamer I feel some admiration towards a company that provides options.
And copying the competition's idea is not always a bad thing. If anything this ensures compatibility between PS3 and Wii motion controls. Nintendo decided to be the oddball with the Wii and their third party support (or should I say OUR third party support since WE the Wii owners suffer for it) sucks because by being different they're incompatible. If Nintendo had such a good idea why SHOULDN'T Sony copy it? MS is probably shooting themselves in the foot because Natal is so different. If a good third party game is made for the Wii (that's a big IF) porting the controls to the PS3 would not be that difficult. But porting it to Natal might be a huge challenge. Today the Wii just lost an exclusive with Aragorn's Quest. It's not a big title but Sony just gained a multiplatform release. That wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't do something fairly conventional.
It's not about being unique or different. That's the sort of dumbass attitude that lost Nintendo the top spot in the first place. It's about providing the best solution for your userbase. And that means introducing new ideas, improving flawed ideas and using existing ideas that are already the ideal solution as they are. Sony has noticed that their console lacks something that is pretty popular and now they've made that available to PS3 owners. How is that a bad thing? That's how the Playstation became successful in the first place. Sony was flexible while Nintendo told you what you liked.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: vudu on March 11, 2010, 03:26:13 PM
The PS3 now has virtually no restrictions in regards to game design. It has motion control, normal controls, multiplayer, online play, a hard drive, HD support, and it's the most powerful console. If you want to make a game on the PS3 the sky is the limit.
Unfortunately, no one will play your game because no one owns the damn console (and the few that do don't buy games for it).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 03:48:14 PM
BBC: PS Move... Wii's wand with a coloured ball at the top (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8556882.stm)
Quote
After the announcement, the audience were given a chance to play around with the Move, which resembles Wii's wand with a coloured ball at the top.
Initial reactions were muted.
CNet's Dan Ackerman was less than impressed by the PlayStation Move "I was disappointed with the amount of real innovation we saw. In terms of ideas, it is very similar to what we have seen with the Wii and if you are Sony, you can't help but want to ape that success," Guy Cocker, UK editor of gaming site GameSpot told BBC News.
The latest figures show that Sony has sold more than 33m of the PlayStation 3, PS3s, versus over 67.5m units for the Wii and more than 39m for Microsoft's Xbox 360.
Dan Ackerman, who is a senior editor with the review site CNet.com, said it is unlikely that the Move will present much of a challenge to Nintendo initially.
"Nintendo has such a lead in this market that both Sony and Microsoft are competing to be the number two choice in the living room.
"PlayStation Move isn't that innovative. It doesn't do anything that differently than the Wii but everyone feels they need to get into this space," said Mr Ackerman.
Microsoft plans to introduce a controller-free system known as Natal. It will let players operate Xbox games using gestures and body motions instead of pressing buttons or waving a device.
I can't wait for E3, good or bad, it's gonna be so entertaining!! :D
And copying the competition's idea is not always a bad thing. If anything this ensures compatibility between PS3 and Wii motion controls. Nintendo decided to be the oddball with the Wii and their third party support (or should I say OUR third party support since WE the Wii owners suffer for it) sucks because by being different they're incompatible. If Nintendo had such a good idea why SHOULDN'T Sony copy it? MS is probably shooting themselves in the foot because Natal is so different. If a good third party game is made for the Wii (that's a big IF) porting the controls to the PS3 would not be that difficult. But porting it to Natal might be a huge challenge. Today the Wii just lost an exclusive with Aragorn's Quest. It's not a big title but Sony just gained a multiplatform release. That wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't do something fairly conventional.
Move over Wii, Sony wants to Play (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30835.msg592336#msg592336)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 11, 2010, 05:50:12 PM
Nintendo is the only one that has to release a brand new console because their hardware is too out-of-date.
You sound like one of those analysts who are consistently proven wrong about the Wii, but keep making the same prediction over and over again as if waiting long enough will make it true. From what you're suggesting, it seems like you think the Wii is just a fad and will fade away, but that's what analysts have said about it from the beginning, and its still going strong.
Whether you think the hardware is out of date or not, the fact is its still highly profitable. That's all that matters to a business like Nintendo. Only fans like us care about graphics or A.I. Nintendo only cares about making money, and the Wii excels for that. Sure, the Wii 2 is in development and will come out whenever its supposed to, but don't count on Nintendo rushing it out just because Sony released a new $100 peripheral that may end up with a poor adoption rate. As you probably already know, peripherals seldom perform very well compared to bundled hardware. Just ask the 32x, Sega CD, or the 64DD if you don't believe me.
The Wii still has a lot of room yet for price drops and bundle deals to keep it going for a few more years. I believe by this point in the GC's life it was down to $99, but the Wii has only seen one price drop in its whole life. If the PS3 really starts to take off Nintendo could start doing that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 11, 2010, 06:02:49 PM
From everything I've seen of this, it doesn't seem appreciably better than what's currently available on the Wii. It's yet another example of Sony blatantly copying something from Nintendo, which is annoying, but they've had a lot of success by doing that in the past. And in the end, if the software is there, I'll buy it. The Wii control scheme is capable of a lot of cool games that I'm very interested in seeing happening, and I'd prefer to see them realized on the Wii, but if this is the way they come then I'll play them that way.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 11, 2010, 06:06:05 PM
The Wii still has a lot of room yet for price drops and bundle deals to keep it going for a few more years. I believe by this point in the GC's life it was down to $99, but the Wii has only seen one price drop in its whole life. If the PS3 really starts to take off Nintendo could start doing that.
One price drop and One color....
/cry
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 06:13:14 PM
Quote
Whether you think the hardware is out of date or not, the fact is its still highly profitable. That's all that matters to a business like Nintendo. Only fans like us care about graphics or A.I. Nintendo only cares about making money, and the Wii excels for that.
I don't work for Nintendo. All I give a damn about is what they do for me. I want them to be profitable but only in a way that benefits me. I had to buy a PS3 to get access to good third party support because Nintendo practically repackaged a Gamecube and called it "next gen". They fucked up OUR third party support so they could make their console as cheap as possible and still make a profit on the hardware off of us. They compromised the quality of their console and the quality of being a Wii owner to make an extra buck off of you and me. You say Nintendo only cares about money as if it's a good thing. Why does ANYONE on this forum act like that? Are the Jonas Brothers the best band in the world because they make so much money? I would assume that for anyone who truly has a love of videogames that money, sales, etc are irrelevent unless we're specifically talking about the business of games. And even then it should entirely be related to how it benefits us gamers such as how it affects third party support, prices, the creation of sequels, localizations, ports to consoles we own, availablility of games in stores, and the continued viability of developers we like.
The Wii is out-of-date because it doesn't support features that ALL the competing consoles do. The Wii is out-of-date because it misses out on almost every multiplatform game worth a **** because of it's glorified last-gen hardware. It fails to suit my needs as a gamer because of it's inferior hardware. Not because I just have a hard-on for specs but because of the real effect that the inferior hardware has had on the console's selection of games. To properly serve my needs as a gamer, Nintendo needs to release a Wii successor by about late 2011 or so. We're not Nintendo stockholders so we shouldn't care about how much money they make. A company manipulating us for profit should be vilified, not praised.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 06:21:52 PM
I don't work for Nintendo. All I give a damn about is what they do for me. I want them to be profitable but only in a way that benefits me. I had to buy a PS3 to get access to good third party support because Nintendo practically repackaged a Gamecube and called it "next gen". They fucked up OUR third party support so they could make their console as cheap as possible and still make a profit on the hardware off of us.
Like 3rd party support was all that good on the GC and the N64?
The Wii is out-of-date [and] needs to release a Wii successor by about late 2011 or so.
That's how I've scheduled it my head.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on March 11, 2010, 06:24:22 PM
As an aside, I believe the magnetic field sensory technology is also being used for Razer's PC motion controller. The company providing the technology, Sixense, was in talks with all three console makers about licensing the technology in early 2009. Does anyone know for sure if Sony licensed it from Sixense after all?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 11, 2010, 06:29:07 PM
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 11, 2010, 06:41:02 PM
Quote
Like 3rd party support was all that good on the GC and the N64?
It wasn't and that was something I wanted Nintendo to address. We've now had 14 years of this crap. But at least those consoles weren't the market leader so there was some justification. Now Nintendo has become the market leader but this position only benefits THEM and not US. With all other console generations the market leading console benefitted that console's userbase with the best third party support.
Regardless of who we all support, competition inspires quality. Nintendo talks about how they have their own market seperate from Sony and MS and thus don't compete with them. The hell with that! All the console makers being in the same market and competing directly with each other results in better consoles for all of us. If Sony can compete in Nintendo's market it will light a fire under Nintendo's ass. Sony doesn't have to usurp Nintendo but merely threaten them. It's in our best interest that no console maker have enough power and security to slack off or take advantage of us. They should all be checking over their shoulder. So we should hope to some extent that Sony acheives some success with this, at least enough to keep Nintendo on their toes.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 11, 2010, 06:44:15 PM
Whether you think the hardware is out of date or not, the fact is its still highly profitable. That's all that matters to a business like Nintendo. Only fans like us care about graphics or A.I. Nintendo only cares about making money, and the Wii excels for that.
I don't work for Nintendo. All I give a damn about is what they do for me. I want them to be profitable but only in a way that benefits me. I had to buy a PS3 to get access to good third party support because Nintendo practically repackaged a Gamecube and called it "next gen". They fucked up OUR third party support so they could make their console as cheap as possible and still make a profit on the hardware off of us. They compromised the quality of their console and the quality of being a Wii owner to make an extra buck off of you and me. You say Nintendo only cares about money as if it's a good thing. Why does ANYONE on this forum act like that? Are the Jonas Brothers the best band in the world because they make so much money? I would assume that for anyone who truly has a love of videogames that money, sales, etc are irrelevent unless we're specifically talking about the business of games. And even then it should entirely be related to how it benefits us gamers such as how it affects third party support, prices, the creation of sequels, localizations, ports to consoles we own, availablility of games in stores, and the continued viability of developers we like.
The Wii is out-of-date because it doesn't support features that ALL the competing consoles do. The Wii is out-of-date because it misses out on almost every multiplatform game worth a **** because of it's glorified last-gen hardware. It fails to suit my needs as a gamer because of it's inferior hardware. Not because I just have a hard-on for specs but because of the real effect that the inferior hardware has had on the console's selection of games. To properly serve my needs as a gamer, Nintendo needs to release a Wii successor by about late 2011 or so. We're not Nintendo stockholders so we shouldn't care about how much money they make. A company manipulating us for profit should be vilified, not praised.
The flaw in that argument is that it acts like Nintendo had good third party support to begin with. Nintendo hasn't had great third party support since the SNES days. 3rd parties treat Nintendo like they make kiddie peace of **** consoles. They have a dumb as **** sense of what is cool, and they think that is what they should support. The Ps3 is the titanic and if they want to support a system that is a sinking ship than they can join all the dumbassed companies in the industry death thread. Here is what I know. The Wii controller is a genius and wonderful input device, it is better than a regular controller and is not a gimmick, unless you want to go by the positive gimmick definition. I have played games that use the device properly and some that haven't. 3rd parties don't get it, and that is the problem. The Wii is the number one console because it has a couple of games that use the device correctly. Third parties hate Nintendo, and no matter what ingenious things they do, they will continue to treat the company like ****. The only thing i could wish Nintendo to do is make as much money as they can and buy all the damn third parties and get them to shut the **** up and get their **** together, and even then that isn't that great of an investment.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 11, 2010, 07:03:27 PM
It's in our best interest that no console maker have enough power and security to slack off or take advantage of us. They should all be checking over their shoulder. So we should hope to some extent that Sony acheives some success with this, at least enough to keep Nintendo on their toes.
I think I said this exact sentiment a page ago but in a more positive manner and with less words.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 07:06:15 PM
How am I supposed to play Gran Turismo 5 with this control scheme? Is there a Car Cockpit controller shell I can activate with the Orb?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 11, 2010, 07:19:21 PM
How am I supposed to play Gran Turismo 5 with this control scheme? Is there a Car Cockpit controller shell I can activate with the Orb?
I don't want to be Sony's spokesman here, but pretty much anything that could be done with a NES style Wii remote, including Mario Kart style tilt-steering controls, could already be done with Sony's original half-assed Nintendo ripoff, the Sixaxis.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 07:43:31 PM
bulb gets in the way of reaching any buttons. Unless you have freakishly long thumbs.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2010, 07:46:05 PM
How am I supposed to play Gran Turismo 5 with this control scheme? Is there a Car Cockpit controller shell I can activate with the Orb?
I don't want to be Sony's spokesman here, but pretty much anything that could be done with a NES style Wii remote, including Mario Kart style tilt-steering controls, could already be done with Sony's original half-assed Nintendo ripoff, the Sixaxis.
But SicksAxes is the past, we're talking about... Sony and The Future.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2010, 07:51:34 PM
The Wii still has a lot of room yet for price drops and bundle deals to keep it going for a few more years. I believe by this point in the GC's life it was down to $99, but the Wii has only seen one price drop in its whole life. If the PS3 really starts to take off Nintendo could start doing that.
One price drop and One color....
/cry
Nintendo's huge success this gen has been both a blessing and a curse for Nintendo fans. If the Wii had been struggling then we would have seen more colors and price drops by now for sure. We might also have seen more games and bundled deals.
The GC era sucked for Nintendo as a business, but it was a swell time to be a Nintendo fan. We got plenty of new core IPs (Luigi's manson, Geist, Pikmin, etc.) which generally failed in a commercial sense, but they were great games in a critical sense.
The Wii isn't bad either if you're a casual gamer, but we're missing out on "hardcore" material.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 12, 2010, 07:17:33 AM
The Wii is out-of-date because it misses out on almost every multiplatform game worth a ****
If that is the reason the Wii is out of date, then by that same logic wouldn't you say the GC and N64 were out-of-date as well? The GC was fairly decent hardware in its day, second only to the Xbox, yet it was in last place in terms of multi-platform support. The same is true with the N64. The N64 was actually the most powerful system of its time, but it lacked 3rd party support.
So I just don't understand how you can say that Nintendo forfeited multiplatform support by "repackaging the GC". The Wii may be inferior hardware, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the 3rd party support situation. Even when Nintendo had hardware on par or even superior to its competitors they still got shat on by 3rd parties. So what is your excuse for then?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on March 12, 2010, 07:55:42 AM
The one game I have some real interest in is the sword fighting game. I love the Resort sword and this actually looks a bit different since it has a shield. If you have two ice cream cones it could make some awesome sword and shield combat. Why did they have to make everybody some kind of NFL reject though? The fighters even have the black stuff under their eyes.
Nintendo's huge success this gen has been both a blessing and a curse for Nintendo fans. If the Wii had been struggling then we would have seen more colors and price drops by now for sure. We might also have seen more games and bundled deals.
I agree with you here, the GC was getting rocked so they slashed the prices hard. I picked up the GC way late in the game and it was dirt cheap.
The GC era sucked for Nintendo as a business, but it was a swell time to be a Nintendo fan. We got plenty of new core IPs (Luigi's manson, Geist, Pikmin, etc.) which generally failed in a commercial sense, but they were great games in a critical sense.
The Wii isn't bad either if you're a casual gamer, but we're missing out on "hardcore" material.
While I agree that Nintendo has not made a lot of new IPs outside of the Wii line (Disaster, the new RPGs, etc) they have done an excellent job of reviving games that their fans have typically loved (Excite____, Punch Out, 2d Mario, Sin and Punishment 2).
This Wii linup is very retro except for Retro
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 12, 2010, 12:05:56 PM
Quote
The Wii may be inferior hardware, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the 3rd party support situation. Even when Nintendo had hardware on par or even superior to its competitors they still got shat on by 3rd parties. So what is your excuse for then?
The N64 and Cube had poor third party support because they were unpopular. Actually the N64 did largely suffer from being too different because of the cartridge vs. cd thing. But the Cube lost out because it was the lowest selling console.
But the best selling console ALWAYS has the best support. Previous Nintendo consoles that were the market leader had this. So has every market leading Nintendo portable. So why does the Wii have the WORST? I think the fact that the Wii's hardware is so vastly underpowered compared to the PS3, X360 and PC is the most likely reason. It comes down to either making a game that one can easily port between three plaforms or an exclusive that's only on one. You can't make a game for the PS3 and just port it to the Wii. It isn't simple to just down-port like that. By being too different Nintendo seperated the Wii so instead of it being Wii vs. PS3 vs. X360 vs. PC it became Wii vs. PS3 & X360 & PC. The Wii has to provide a better potential market than ALL THREE COMBINED.
What's more likely? That third parties neglect the market leading console because the hardware is vastly underpowered compared to all the other formats or that every single third party has some grudge against Nintendo and intentionally avoids the market leading console entirely to stick it to them. I know that sometimes it feels that way but it's far too fantastic. EVERY third party feels this way? Every single one is willing to allow personal feelings to interfere with business? Bullshit.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 12, 2010, 12:55:07 PM
yes, yes. Third parties never see logic, they look at focus groups and listen to market analyst. Who are all wrong and fail to adapt. Most developers shot themselves in the foot this generation by not supporting Nintendo last generation. Your right companies can't make a game on Ps3 and xbox 360 and port them to the Wii, but you see thats the problem. Thats not a good business approach. Ps2 was the weakest console last generation, and if anything console makers would make something on ps2 and at least port it to xbox. Developers should get off their asses and make something decent for Wii. It should be of the same quality as Resident Evil 4 for gamecube. Only Capcom and Nintendo have decent engines running on the Wii, if factor 5 were still around they could just build off of Rogue leader. Unfortunately, Capcom has gotten lazy and only makes rail shooter games and gimped ports. Dead Rising would be a perfectly fine port if they didn't take away goddamn JUMPING.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on March 12, 2010, 01:44:30 PM
Quote
Unfortunately, Capcom has gotten lazy and only makes rail shooter games and gimped ports.
Millage may vary with Okami. RE4 Wii was amazing. The rest can go to hell.
I hope Capcom suffers another bankrupty scare. =D
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on March 12, 2010, 04:45:12 PM
I don't know if the terra sensor is anything like it but the EM tech on my Wacom pad spazzes out if there are any EM fields nearby (which happens easily in the modern electronics-everywhere household).
If HD was really enough to lift Move above the Wii Nintendo wouldn't have ignored it four years ago. The Wii is based on graphics being good enough that people aren't willing to pay more for better graphics. While hardcore gamers will of course care the majority won't, especially the "casual" gamers. Sony is already seeing that problem with the PS2 and games like Buzz and SingStar, those games don't need HD at all and owners of a PS2 have no reason to buy a PS3 for games like that. Would games like Wii Fit or Mario Kart Wii really be much better in HD? You'll see hardcore games make good use of the HD on the PS3 but those aren't the games that will increase the market for the PS3.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 12, 2010, 05:06:08 PM
Quote
If HD was really enough to lift Move above the Wii Nintendo wouldn't have ignored it four years ago.
I think it's giving Nintendo far more credit than any company deserves to assume that if they didn't do it that it must not be that important. Nintendo isn't perfect. Neither is Sony or MS. All three companies have made mistakes.
The PS2 required a multitap to accomodate four players during a time where all other consoles had four controller slots as standard. Did this relate at all to the PS2's success? Obviously it wasn't a big enough issue to damn the machine but I wouldn't assume that since Sony did that and won that that was the right decision to make.
I'm quite certain that the Wii was as successful as it was because of Wii Sports. People saw this game where you swing the controller and the character on screen does the exact same thing and it blew their minds. They had to have it and they bought the Wii for that. I don't think the price had anything to do with that. People paid out of the ass for Rock Band because, again, they saw a concept that was so appealing to them that they just had to have it. Without this killer app the price and accessability and all of that would have meant squat. The whole music game craze had the same level of mainstream appeal and it was almost the opposite of the Wii as it involved games that cost way more than the average game costs. Hell the Wii was sold out for YEARS. With that kind of demand I'm certain Nintendo would have charged at least $100 more than they did.
Plus we haven't seen a direct comparison. Before it was motion control vs. HD. Nothing offered both and I would say that motion control appeared to be more important to consumers. But now it's not an either/or situation. The differences are gone. It's basically the Wii vs. the Wii plus MORE.
The game of course will make the difference as they always do. The Wii won because it had the killer app that the other consoles could not have. And Sony needs a similar killer app to truly gain any steam against Nintendo. People will pay what it takes to get that game they have to have, unless you're like charging $10000 or something.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 12, 2010, 05:13:48 PM
price point is very important too, the Wii until the xbox 360 price drop was the only console with a reasonable price point. Hopefully, Nintendo should lower their price around e3. Now the Question is how much should they lower the price to? 179, 159, 129, or the very low price of 99.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 12, 2010, 05:20:57 PM
The Wii was sold out in January. I don't expect any significant price cuts this until the holiday season.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 12, 2010, 05:23:08 PM
The thing is, I highly doubt Nintendo would be the market leader if they'd gone with hardware on par with the 360, as they wouldn't have been able to get the price low enough that the blue ocean crowd would be willing to pay it. Remember, the cheapest 360 at the time of the Wii launch was already $50 more, and Microsoft was taking a huge loss on it. Popular and underpowered or unpopular and on the same technical level, either way you get crap third party support.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 12, 2010, 05:34:24 PM
The Wii was sold out in January. I don't expect any significant price cuts this until the holiday season.
The unrivaled market leader.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 12, 2010, 05:46:02 PM
Exactly, the Wii only dropped from $250 to $200 (after 34 months) because Wii sales finally started to sag. Nintendo will not drop the Wii's price again until that happens again.
As for PlayStation Move, it will not be even a minor threat to Wii. For one, it will just be a peripheral (and not a standard controller like Wii Remote it). Second, it will be $100. Also (and this is not major) is that it just looks idiotic. If Nintendo had released a controller like that, you would have Sony fanboys laughing at the stupid glowing ball on top of it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 12, 2010, 05:59:27 PM
What's more likely? That third parties neglect the market leading console because the hardware is vastly underpowered compared to all the other formats or that every single third party has some grudge against Nintendo and intentionally avoids the market leading console entirely to stick it to them. I know that sometimes it feels that way but it's far too fantastic. EVERY third party feels this way? Every single one is willing to allow personal feelings to interfere with business? Bull****.
I think its because they're trapped in a vicious cycle where they believe only Nintendo games can sell on Nintendo platforms, so they either don't make any games or they just make crap, and then it ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, because if they don't make games or only make crap then no one is buying it and therefore people are only buying Nintendo games on that platform.
Some 3rd parties have seen success on Nintendo consoles, but the only way it happens is if they treat the console with respect and give a serious effort and then actually advertise the games once they're made. Very few 3rd parties actually do these things, so their **** ends up being a huge failure, but they blame Nintendo for that and don't acknowledge the real reason for why that is.
Ian, you say games can't be ported to the Wii because of the inferior hardware, but I think that's bullcrap. What do you have to say about games like Street Fighter IV making its way to the Iphone? The Iphone does not have cell-processors and gigs of RAM. If that game could be done on that device then I'm sure it could be done on the Wii as well. It just makes no sense at all. Many 3rd parties do have an irrational grudge against Nintendo hardware. Its either for the reason I pointed out, or because they still hold a grudge from the days when Yamauchi ran the company and bullied them around, or it may be because they see the consoles as "kiddie", or because they are jealous of the popularity and success of Nintendo first party games and would rather not compete with them directly because it makes their own efforts look that much worse.
These are the real reasons 3rd parties hate and avoid the Wii. If it isn't all of those reasons then its some of them, or some combination of them.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 12, 2010, 06:05:41 PM
The thing is, I highly doubt Nintendo would be the market leader if they'd gone with hardware on par with the 360, as they wouldn't have been able to get the price low enough that the blue ocean crowd would be willing to pay it. Remember, the cheapest 360 at the time of the Wii launch was already $50 more, and Microsoft was taking a huge loss on it. Popular and underpowered or unpopular and on the same technical level, either way you get crap third party support.
I agree completely. If Nintendo had done what Ian says they should have done and released hardware on par with its competitors then it would have just been a rehash of the last generation, except that the 360 would have been in the PS2's shoes. Releasing cheap (inferior) hardware was the only way Nintendo could keep their console affordable enough for them to sell as many of them as they did. This is how they were able to overcome the 360's install base despite its early start and grab the title of market leader.
It couldn't have happened any other way. With Ian's advice Nintendo would have faced another grueling GCish generation and who knows? They might have went bankrupt or something. Good thing they followed the wise course of affordability and simplicity. This means they will still be around and in great shape for the next generation when they can catch up with graphics.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 12, 2010, 06:34:51 PM
chozo ghosts puts it pretty good. Like Acclaim with the Turok series as an N64 exclusive vs acclaim with the Turok series on multiple consoles. They put a great effort out on n64 and sold millions of copies of that series, but when they went multi-platform they half assed the series. It really comes to team management. I gave Capcom a jab earlier, but really they still doing better by support for Nintendo than many other 3rd parties.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 12, 2010, 06:36:53 PM
Quote
price point is very important too, the Wii until the xbox 360 price drop was the only console with a reasonable price point.
But Rock Band is probably the most expensive game ever, aside from Steel Battalion, and it was huge with all audiences. I've noticed that most people are irresponsible with money. I know tons of people who make less money than me but are always broke because they don't really take into account how much things cost. They buy things on credit that they can't afford and live from paycheque to paycheque. The decision to buy something is based entirely on whether they want it and have the means to legally walk out of the store with it at that particular time (ie: enough credit or cash). A lot of the mainstream acts this way. That's why marketing works. That's how places like Starbucks are successful. That's why fads exist. That's why we get these weird frenzies over a specific hot item every Christmas. Frugal people don't fall for this stuff.
The Wii sparked a buying frenzy. Everyone had to have it. That creates the sort of scenario where price is not that important. It just had to be at a price point where the general public could scrounge up enough cash or credit to walk out of the store with one.
Price certainly did not hurt. But I don't think it was the deciding factor. Remove Wii Sports and try to sell the Wii on the strength of NPC Twilight Princess and the whole thing would have bombed. Wii Sports is so important to the Wii's success that I say that everything else is a potential red herring. The price, the controller, the name - I don't think we can give any of those credit. Having that killer app everyone needed to have is such a major factor that attempting to do that again should be Nintendo's primary goal next gen.
And since Nintendo made a profit off the hardware, could they not have kept the price point the same, increased the power, and planned to break even on the hardware while making profit from the games? Knowing Nintendo I think the most likely reason they borked the hardware was to squeeze every last cent out of us. I think the goal was more "what's the cheapest hardware we can make with the maximum profit margin that we think we can get away with." Do you think Wii Sports looks like a glorified N64 game because it's more marketable or because it involves less effort from Nintendo? Do you think Wii Sports would have bombed if it graphically resembled Virtua Tennis? Or if it was actually deep enough to allow for a full 9 innings of baseball? What's the true hook? The fact that it's dumbed down or the fact that you swing the controller and the guy on the screen swings it the same way?
All this emphasis on a killer app though means that for the present time, Move isn't going to be all that successful. They have not shown anything that has that "must have" appeal. If it ever does though it will take off.
Quote
What do you have to say about games like Street Fighter IV making its way to the Iphone? The Iphone does not have cell-processors and gigs of RAM. If that game could be done on that device then I'm sure it could be done on the Wii as well.
This initially annoyed me a lot. But then I realize that iPhone games don't have to be good to suceed. At Comic-Con a few years ago I tried out Street Fighter II for the cellphone. It SUCKED. But I realized that I wasn't the target demo. The iPhone is a shitty gaming platform. But the fact that some games still sell well enough on it to make a profit suggests that the people who buy iPhone games have much lower standards of quality. So a half-assed SFIV port will be well received with the iPhone gaming market. The Wii may be popular with non-gamers but it is still a videogame system and thus there are certain standards. We know that the best selling games on the Wii are good games like NSMB. A Wii port would be compromised and inferior. But on the Wii quality actually does matter. A crap port on the iPhone can therefore stand to be more successful than a crap port on the Wii, due to the lowered expectations of the audience. We know that the Wii audience isn't so embracing of junk as third parties initially thought. But porting a PS360 game to the Wii means an expected drop in quality. Street Fighter IV: Inferior Wii Edition isn't going to sell. Only a proper port of Street Fighter IV would sell but that isn't possible.
Now maybe third parties should have made the Wii their priority to begin with. Okay, but why would they have when the Cube was last place last gen? It was a given that at least at first their big games were going to be made with the other consoles in mind. But they weren't able to port those games over. They would have to start over so they released half-assed stuff to get games out ASAP and then those didn't do well. But now they're already working on new PS360 projects and they're iffy about a Wii project because they don't get why their existing Wii product bombed. There's some screwing up involved here but Nintendo did not make it easy to just switch plans.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 12, 2010, 07:05:07 PM
I'd complain about you calling the iPhone a shitty game platform when it's not and you clearly haven't played anything on it to come to that conclusion, but you say that there aren't good third party games on the Wii despite not actually playing any of them, so I figure what's the point.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on March 13, 2010, 10:33:01 AM
The PS2 required a multitap to accomodate four players during a time where all other consoles had four controller slots as standard. Did this relate at all to the PS2's success? Obviously it wasn't a big enough issue to damn the machine but I wouldn't assume that since Sony did that and won that that was the right decision to make.
It didn't damn the console, that's my point. When Nintendo and MS came out with consoles that had four controllers people didn't go "hey, that's better than my PS2, I'll buy it!" Move could only really succeed against the Wii if HD was something that many people were REALLY missing. Again it's about dealbreakers, not just inconveniences.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on March 13, 2010, 11:03:16 AM
The irony of Playstation Move is that it looks more like a toy than the Wii ever will.
PSM gets a few things right, namely the round edges and analog triggers, while other things (i.e. the more important ones) are ultimately muddled by poor design choices. I like that there are more face buttons on the wand and a d-pad on the subcontroller. Unfortunately, Sony completely missed the point by putting the buttons around the large Move button. The d-pad (I use that term loosely considering Sony still can't figure out how to make one correctly) on the subcontroller looks too close to the analog stick to be used comfortably in most gameplay situations, unless it's meant as a substitute to the analog stick and I can't think of a situation where that would be a better idea. And just what the hell was Sony thinking putting the start/select buttons on the side of the wand? Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 13, 2010, 02:19:03 PM
More face buttons on the wand? If you include the D-pad, the wiimote has just as many.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 13, 2010, 02:53:55 PM
Wiimote = 11 buttons (12 w/ Power Button) A, B, +, Home, -, 1, 2, up, down, left, right, (power)
Move = 9 buttons Move, T, square, triangle, X, O, Start, Select, Home
Nunchuck = 2 buttons C, Z
SubCon = 9 up, down, left, right, L1, L2, X, O, Home
WiiChuck = 13 buttons (14 if you count the Power Button) MoveCon = 18 buttons
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 13, 2010, 03:23:44 PM
The Wii Remote plays most games in the Wii library, including retro games.
SMove, doesn't.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 13, 2010, 04:21:50 PM
im pretty sure the d-pad on the Move controller is so that people can play fighters, its not a bad idea really, the comfortable nunchuck doesn't have its own d-pad, but the nice thing about remote controls are you can adjust your hand location, its slightly less comfortable, but more functional.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 13, 2010, 04:33:09 PM
The D-pad on the DS3 has its uses. I prefer using it in FF XIII for making quick menu decisions and choosing Crystarium path choices, and games like God of War use it to execute equipment switching (much like some games on the Wii use the Wiimote's D-pad). You also pretty much have to have it for some PS1 titles since not all of them support the analog stick. I'm not quite sure what use the D-pad will have with PS3 motion-controlled games when you have both pointer functionality and the analog stick available, but I suppose it's always nice just to have it there.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Urkel on March 13, 2010, 06:17:23 PM
Reggie comments on Move. (http://wii.ign.com/articles/107/1077356p1.html)
Some choice quotes:
Quote
IGN: So -- you got anything that can compete against Sony's revolutionary Move controller and sub-controller?
[Reggie leans back in his chair and laughs for several moments.]
Quote
[Reggie laughs]
Quote
[he snaps]
Quote
Reggie Fils-Aime: [Laughs]
Quote
Reggie Fils-Aime: [Laughs]
Quote
Reggie Fils-Aime: [Laughs] I'm not going to give you anything.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 13, 2010, 07:18:48 PM
LMAO
but seriously, EyePet (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-10-eyepet/63064?type=flv)
If this game was Nintendogs Wii there would be another evergreen Nintendo 10+Million seller that never leaves the NPD Top 20.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on March 13, 2010, 07:29:11 PM
im pretty sure the d-pad on the Move controller is so that people can play fighters...
That crossed my mind but I would think most people who play fighting games would have a DS3/Sixaxis, if not an arcade stick. I wonder how many PS3 owners would have Move and not a regular controller. Move is the add-on after all. Also, the button placement on the wand kind of makes playing fighting games a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 13, 2010, 08:03:48 PM
That crossed my mind but I would think most people who play fighting games would have a DS3/Sixaxis, if not an arcade stick. I wonder how many PS3 owners would have Move and not a regular controller. Move is the add-on after all. Also, the button placement on the wand kind of makes playing fighting games a pain in the ass.
Considering that the PS3 comes with a Dualshock 3, I'd say we can safely assume the answer to your question is "Zero." ;) And fighting game fans won't use the Move even if the button placement and whatnot are good. If Street Fighter 4 is any indication, they'll just get a specialty controller built for fighting games, because that's what "real" players use.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 13, 2010, 09:07:22 PM
lol imagine if Sony copies the motion controller only to find out Nintendo's next motion controller is some sort of ridiculous alien technology
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 13, 2010, 09:19:07 PM
Sony will have 9 months of Move before Nintendo reveals whatever it has cooked up for Wii2HD. So Sony better use that time wisely.
If Nintendo actually takes more than the baby step that Sony did with Move past the capabilities of the Wiimote+ then, Sony is kinda stuck with the inferior tech going into the latter half of their 10 year generation.
And I'm not even gonna mention how dated MS might look with their controller-less interpretation of motion controls.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on March 13, 2010, 09:32:05 PM
Sony has until the end of the year before Zelda Wii is unleashed and blows everything they have out of the water.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: MegaByte on March 13, 2010, 09:46:31 PM
I played it. While the specs seems solid (even overkill), it's obviously not a finished package. Nobody seems to be integrating all of the features at once, so it still isn't perfect. For instance, in their basic augmented reality demo, the automatic color changing wasn't implemented, so it would sometimes start tracking things other than the glowing ball (even though the rotational movements were still accounted for properly). This resulted in a baseball bat tracking some guy's crotch in an unfortunate manner. For sure, it works much better than Wii, but it's clearly not ready for prime time.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 13, 2010, 10:14:30 PM
This resulted in a baseball bat tracking some guy's crotch in an unfortunate manner.
He must've been packin'. Black guy?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 13, 2010, 10:51:44 PM
Reggie comments on Move and Natal.
The Next Wii Will Innovate, Nintendo Would Be "Embarrassed" If It Was Sony, Microsoft (http://kotaku.com/5492102/the-next-wii-will-innovate-nintendo-would-be-embarrassed-if-it-was-sony-microsoft)
Quote
"I think a hallmark of Nintendo is that we are constantly trying to innovate," he said. "I think we would have been embarrassed to do what our competitors are currently doing."
"So, all I can tell you is that we will innovate. We will provide something new. Something that the consumer and the industry will look at and say 'Wow, I didn't see that coming.'"
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on March 14, 2010, 12:38:38 AM
The Next Wii Will Innovate, Nintendo Would Be "Embarrassed" If It Was Sony, Microsoft (http://kotaku.com/5492102/the-next-wii-will-innovate-nintendo-would-be-embarrassed-if-it-was-sony-microsoft)
Quote
"I think a hallmark of Nintendo is that we are constantly trying to innovate," he said. "I think we would have been embarrassed to do what our competitors are currently doing."
"So, all I can tell you is that we will innovate. We will provide something new. Something that the consumer and the industry will look at and say 'Wow, I didn't see that coming.'"
It's a damn good thing somebody in this game has a bit of pride in their work...
Tho in all fairness to Sony, I suppose they're probably in "hunker down and do whatever it takes to not go out of business" mode right now.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 14, 2010, 01:45:11 AM
Nice to see Reggie kicking more ass using only his words. He's absolutely right, too. There's nothing whatsoever to be proud of in being a copycat. By copying Nintendo the competition is admitting Nintendo was right, despite what they may have said back in the Wii's early days.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 14, 2010, 03:40:52 AM
This resulted in a baseball bat tracking some guy's crotch in an unfortunate manner.
He must've been packin'. Black guy?
Here I thought you were the only one with a PhD in Penis Fencing!
I know, but I wasn't at the event, so it couldn't have been me.
Maybe it was Reggie?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Invincible Donkey Kong on March 15, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
Nope, was too busy laughing at Move from the background. :reggie:
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 17, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
Reggie comments on Move and other stuff (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/nintendos-reggie-on-wii-core-games-wii-hd-shortages--more/3/)
Quote
IG: I was going to ask you about PlayStation Move, because it's sort of like Wii in HD. The controls are pretty similar but the graphics are much better. And I guess Sony is hoping that people will upgrade from Wii because of those motion controls. Sony wants Wii consumers to say now, 'Hey let's go get a PS3.'
Reggie: And why would they say that? That's the piece that to me is very interesting. So I'm a consumer and I'm having a great experience with my Wii. And we know that's the case – we look at the software that's being purchased. Consumers love the Wii. What's going to motivate them to spend minimally $300 for a new [PS3] system, plus minimally $100 for the Move motion bundle? So [as a consumer] now I'm into this for $400 and I still have to spend money on software. What's going to motivate me to do that?
Reggie sure has been quite vocal about Move. I guess Nintendo is feeling a little bit of pressure from Move as it moves into Wii territory. I hope that translate into some pro-active behavior from Nintendo which results in more games with bigger budgets from more developers that matter.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 17, 2010, 01:46:45 PM
Reggie isn't vocal about Move. I'm vocal about move, hell, the "new $400 game system" idea puts us on the same wavelength of justice. It's the interviewers and interviews that are just terrible, discussing the same questions/topics over and over again.
Will SMove (new pricey peripheral combo) attract the existing nicheStation3 customers? Will SMove (whole new platform package) attract existing "pointed there, waggled that" Wii customers? Will SMove attract the unknown NON-CUSTOMERS? Why isn't Kaz around to answer these questions? Why aren't the press asking these?
If the press can only ask the constantly pathetic "I hope I win against teh Reggie" type questions, and Reggie's the only big industry guy available to answer this stuff, who's playing who?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 17, 2010, 02:17:28 PM
NinGurl is right, how is it being vocal about something when he is just answering the question the reporter asked him? Especially when it's one that he has probably been asked many times already. It's like when movie actors do the standard round of interviews to promote it, they get sick of answering the same question 15, 20 times.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 17, 2010, 02:18:03 PM
He is being vocal because he could keep recycling the same answers over and over again, but he is expressing some of the same concerns that lots of us have had. I've made a post already detailing what it would cost to play PS3 w/ Move vs Wii, and he doesn't seem to be holding back and deflecting questions like most PR heads would do.
would you guys really prefer the ususal "I have not seen Move, but I think what we offer on Wii is blah blah blah blah" or "We don't see ourselves in the same competitive space as blah blah blah" response over and over again.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on March 17, 2010, 02:28:07 PM
I think Reggie has been pretty fair regarding Move. He isn't being as hostile as he could be. He's bringing up very legitimate concerns.
In the IGN interview he pointed out that if Sony's goal was to provide something new for existing PS3 owners that $100 for Move is a perfectly acceptable price. That's something that no one really has talked about. But he also mentioned that if it's $400 for a new customer and that's what Sony is focusing on there needs to be an incentive. And that's dead-on. Reggie could be all politician and just crap on Sony's negatives in a biased manner. But he isn't. I think he might do that to look more credible, but that's working.
It's a hot topic and he's answering questions. If he was bringing it up in conversation then I would say that maybe Nintendo is worried about it but that's not the case.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 17, 2010, 06:36:19 PM
They really have nothing to worry about, as long as the paychecks from the Wii and Ds are still coming in. Actually, if they made no money from this point, they could operate for another 6 years.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 17, 2010, 08:42:28 PM
LOLx2
Sony Mocks Natal and Insults the Wii (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/03/playstation-move-ad-mocks-natal-attacks-nintendo-wii.ars)
Quote
The PlayStation Move was just announced, but Sony is wasting no time before going on the attack. The newest—not to mention first—advertisement for the peripheral makes fun of the Nintendo Wii, attacks Microsoft's Project Natal, and basically buries the entire message under a thick layer of smarm with a side order of smug.
Yeah, this commercial is pretty much awesome.
direct link: Kevin Butler "Moves" from the Future (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0puP8nrIU8&feature=player_embedded)
I lol'd twice.
"Total control over your gaming experience.....because real boxers don't hit like this..." (http://i43.tinypic.com/e6c9ao.jpg)
"It also has what we in the future call buttons...Which are pretty important..... for doing anything that doesn't involve catching a big red ball"
"C'mon, Who wants to use their hand is a gun.... what is this third grade!? (http://i39.tinypic.com/1687wh5.jpg) Pew...Pew....Pew...Pew (laughs)"
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 17, 2010, 09:28:36 PM
So if I'm following this commercial correctly, Move has as much chance at being successful as the KC Royals?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 17, 2010, 09:39:20 PM
I have to give it to Sony: that commercial's hilarious. ;D
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 17, 2010, 09:46:43 PM
So if I'm following this commercial correctly, Move has as much chance at being successful as the KC Royals?
more like, get ready for the unexpected.
Since I assume you meant that the KC Royals have a very low chance of making to the World Series.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on March 17, 2010, 09:49:52 PM
I'm not sure mocking the opponent as childish is the best choice, given the Move's Nerf-controller / clown-nose appearance...
[Actually it looks even more silly in his video than the previous shots I've seen... man, that really is a giant glowing yellow ball on the end of it...]
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 17, 2010, 09:53:35 PM
You also would think that they would have used a color other than pink during the fighting scene.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 17, 2010, 10:15:10 PM
So if I'm following this commercial correctly, Move has as much chance at being successful as the KC Royals?
more like, get ready for the unexpected.
Since I assume you meant that the KC Royals have a very low chance of making to the World Series.
I'm just saying he claims to be from the future, and says that Move is incredibly successful and that the Royals win the World Series. Given that both events have occurred (according to him) that means they both have a probability of 100%. So it's possible to say that both events are equally as likely, at least in the 'sony-make-believe' paradigm. And I find this funny.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Stogi on March 17, 2010, 10:15:38 PM
You would think they would use two people that don't look like dueche bags demonstrating their games.
Funny vid though
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 17, 2010, 10:20:26 PM
They do look very uncomfortable playing those games. Get them a chair.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 17, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
I thought HD players have trouble standing up and lifting controllers.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 17, 2010, 10:32:05 PM
Did no one notice that the on-screen character is punching with the wrong hand? (http://i43.tinypic.com/e6c9ao.jpg) Guy with the 3iimote is punching with his left, onscreen character is punching with his right.
Not something you would notice on the 1st or 2nd time seeing the commercial, but I've seen it about 4 times already, and it really sticks out now that I noticed it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on March 17, 2010, 10:46:38 PM
Did no one notice that the on-screen character is punching with the wrong hand?
My guess is that this is something that was intentionally done by the director of the commercial to avoid confusing the viewer just casually watching by having a character punching with his right=a character on the TV (from our perspective) punching from the left. That you (and I) didn't notice this up till now seems to indicate this. Of course, they could have avoided the issue entirely by just not having the video footage show a character attacking from the front. ::)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: mac<censored> on March 17, 2010, 11:35:11 PM
Jack Tretton is talking(?)/demonstrating(?) Move tonite on GTTV (SpikeTV 12:30am) http://www.gametrailers.com/images/skyscaper_GTT
What color ball will he use?!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on March 20, 2010, 04:27:19 PM
I actually don't find the commercial itself funny, but the concept could've been. This isn't a TV advert is it? Perhaps redone and shown as 2 or 3 different ads it would actually work. I'd hate to admit it, but as annoying as these kevin butler ads are they are pretty humerous; just not this one. This just just doesn't seem to have the same asshole persona as the other ads do, which IMO makes the ad less effective.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 20, 2010, 05:14:46 PM
Well if Sony's trying to lure Nintendo's customers, I don't know that an asshole telling them why PS3 is better is the most effective way.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 20, 2010, 08:31:16 PM
I though it was pretty funny (but you already know that). but it wasn't made as a TV commercial, it was made for a retailer conference or something like that. I have no doubts that it would make a good commercial though, like you said, if they cut it down into 2-3 much shorter 30 second ads.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 20, 2010, 11:54:14 PM
We all ask how is Move different from the Wiimote (in how Sony presented it), we also ask how is Natal gonna do anything for gaming(seriously, we need buttons... right?), well Sony shows why it's good be the tech in the middle of both.
Move presentation with Dr. Marks on Engadget today: bittorrent download link: http://www.btghost.com/link/90255599/ (http://www.btghost.com/link/90255599/)
3D camera. Technically the Wii should be able to do something like this (in game scenarios), but this has the most gameplay potential of everything I just seen in these gifs. (http://i44.tinypic.com/24q8r52.gifhttp://i39.tinypic.com/wjc7jn.gif[/gif]http://i41.tinypic.com/20i9kk2.gif)
Youtube version of all the gifs above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz--coTb8h0
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on March 23, 2010, 10:00:45 PM
http://www.nintendoeverything.com/35543/
jeez Sony pulling their 10 year old Nintendo is teh kiddie song and dance
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 23, 2010, 11:30:00 PM
jeez Sony pulling their 10 year old Nintendo is teh kiddie song and dance
Sony's just mad that Nintendo is gonna get all the credit for making 3D gaming mainstream when 95% of HDTV owners are not gonna upgrade their TV's just to play 3D PS3 games.
Nintendo's response to Sony.... (http://i41.tinypic.com/xc9e8o.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 24, 2010, 12:35:14 AM
To put this in perspective, Michael Pachter, a known idiot who routinely pulls predictions out of his ass, says he wants more information before making a prediction regarding the 3DS. This reeks of desperation on Sony's part, though what are they supposed to say? That they have no hope of ever getting the kind of install base this thing will have in the first year for 3D gaming in the whole life of the PS3? I guess I can't blame them for throwing stones rather than admitting they've lost before the game even started.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on March 24, 2010, 03:21:13 AM
Funnily third parties are happy with the announcement (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/nintendo-has-incredible-hardware-track-record_2).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 24, 2010, 04:59:52 AM
jeez Sony pulling their 10 year old Nintendo is teh kiddie song and dance
Sony's just mad that Nintendo is gonna get all the credit for making 3D gaming mainstream when 95% of HDTV owners are not gonna upgrade their TV's just to play 3D PS3 games.
Nintendo's response to Sony.... (http://i41.tinypic.com/xc9e8o.jpg)
Getting people to upgrade from SD to HD has been very slow. I'm sure those who've just made the leap to HD are in no immediate hurry to upgrade to something new.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 24, 2010, 10:55:32 AM
^ That's my point. If I just spent 1-3k on a new big screen HDTV, there is no way that I'm gonna scrap(sell, move or whatever) that TV that works perfectly fine just to go buy an even more expensive TV of the same size (to replace my other relatively new one) just to watch and play 3D movies and video games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 24, 2010, 02:31:03 PM
jeez Sony pulling their 10 year old Nintendo is teh kiddie song and dance
It will be funny to look back at quotes like this a few years from now when the 3DS is outselling the PSP2 3:1.
Quote
8 and 9 year olds playing 3D is a little bit of a stretch given where some of our research is right now.”
I have no idea where Sony's research is at right now, but its obviously lost somewhere in la-la land. It is obvious they still have the same dumbasses working there as they did in 2006 when their "research" told them consumers would gladly shell out $600.
But I'm glad they haven't learned from their mistakes, because that means they've sealed their fate in the next generation just as they have in this one, and that's a great thing for the perspective of Nintendo and its fans.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 12, 2010, 12:37:53 AM
Sub Controller (aka SubCon) get a new and official name.... Navigation Controller (to now be known as the NavCon) (http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/12/playstation-move-sub-controller-hits-fcc-will-be-named-navigati/)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on April 12, 2010, 01:24:07 AM
Didn't Super Mario Bros. 2 take place in Subcon? Subcon...scious.... subconscious... OH MY GAH! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqH1Pl_m7yo)
After all these years, Nintendo still has a hard-on for not-so-clever wordplay when naming characters/places in their games. Spirit Tracks was full of that bullsh*t. Facepalm @ Anjean, Lokomo, Steem, etc. It's like Nintendo isn't even trying anymore. Still, I admit that it took me years to figure out Navi = navigator and that's like the most obvious one. /perception fail
But I digress. It doesn't really matter what Sony calls these controllers. It's a parody of Nintendo's innovation and Sony smugly refuses to admit that Nintendo came up with it and that Motion Plus exists so I'm going to keep referring to their motion controller as the Sony dildos or Wii Remote and Nunchuck.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: IceCold on April 18, 2010, 03:03:54 AM
I browsed through the last few pages of this thread and holy ****. Especially considering the third party support and Wii being underpowered and blah blah blah. I actually think you could find a thread from 2006 with the EXACT SAME posters, arguments and even wording.
Don't you guys ever get bored? Or at the very least deja vu?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: D_Average on April 18, 2010, 01:22:18 PM
Personally, I find repeating history to be very exciting.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ShyGuy on April 19, 2010, 04:06:11 PM
What has Sony ever done for the video game industry?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 19, 2010, 04:14:47 PM
What has Sony ever done for the video game industry?
Expanded the industry beyond the hardest of the core gamer and strongly encouraged the growth of new IPs in the Playstation/Playstation 2 (and even now with the PS3) era. But we've done this little dance before.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 19, 2010, 06:03:48 PM
That's a good point; most people don't realize that the NES, SNES, and Genesis were only for the hardcore.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 19, 2010, 06:13:34 PM
What has Sony ever done for the video game industry?
Expanded the industry beyond the hardest of the core gamer and strongly encouraged the growth of new IPs in the Playstation/Playstation 2 (and even now with the PS3) era. But we've done this little dance before.
There wouldn't even be a industry without Nintendo, they revived the industry when it was almost dead. The PlayStation may have helped the continuing expansion, but the NES and SNES were played by plenty of casual people and grew the industry larger than it ever had been.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on April 19, 2010, 06:15:20 PM
Tetris was the Wii Sports of the NES and Game Boy.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 19, 2010, 06:24:14 PM
What has Sony ever done for the video game industry?
Expanded the industry beyond the hardest of the core gamer and strongly encouraged the growth of new IPs in the Playstation/Playstation 2 (and even now with the PS3) era. But we've done this little dance before.
There wouldn't even be a industry without Nintendo, they revived the industry when it was almost dead. The PlayStation may have helped the continuing expansion, but the NES and SNES were played by plenty of casual people and grew the industry larger than it ever had been.
When did I ever take away the achievements of Nintendo in reviving the industry? The question was "what has Sony done for the industry", not "what has Nintendo not done for the industry."
And insanolord, before the PS1 came along gaming was pretty much considered the realm of the ultra-hardcore nerds, if not in reality than in perception. Sony, though, pushed to market the PS1 beyond that niche with slick marketing; the CD-ROM format (yes, with FMV movies); and low-cost. Mind you, the PS1 was a technical POS IMO (and was always playing catch-up to the N64 in technical innovations), but you can't deny the mark it made (for the better, IMO).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on April 19, 2010, 06:30:28 PM
I think the move to 3D gaming was what really drew people in, anyone could have done it, really. Sony just so happens to be the company to do it because they didn't screw things up, and copying and refining the ideas of a company who was busy shooting themselves in the foot.
But hey, that's business I s'pose.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 19, 2010, 06:34:48 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with you,Broodwars, on Sony making this industry better. From a consumer base I think that the playstation brought in the wrong kind of people. I think because of the playstation it is why we have people fighting amongst themselves and dividing people into different groups. Before the playstation everybody was a gamer. Now there is 2 groups "casual" and "hardcore".
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 19, 2010, 06:41:54 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with you,Broodwars, on Sony making this industry better. From a consumer base I think that the playstation brought in the wrong kind of people. I think because of the playstation it is why we have people fighting amongst themselves and dividing people into different groups. Before the playstation everybody was a gamer. Now there is 2 groups "casual" and "hardcore".
Funny, but I don't remember ever seeing either the terms "casual" or "hardcore" used in reference to gamer subcultures until the Wii released. The PS1 era was the first time I can remember seeing games specifically labled for different types of gamers, though (the RPG fans, the Sports fans, the shooter fans, etc.).
I'll also have to ask you just what the "right kind of people" to be gamers are, as I have a slight feeling that everyone has their own opinion on the matter and none of us are right.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on April 19, 2010, 06:45:08 PM
Nintendo Power has been separating gamers into genre fans since 1989.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 19, 2010, 06:49:02 PM
Well I guess it has to do with the additude of people than the names casual and hardcore. Remember "kiddy" back in the N64 era. Same type of thing as far as casual. Something to divide games into different groups.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 19, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Well I guess it has to do with the additude of people than the names casual and hardcore. Remember "kiddy" back in the N64 era. Same type of thing as far as casual. Something to divide games into different groups.
Alright, now that's a fair assessment of the era. We all remember the "kiddie" stigma, though I wouldn't blame the new gamers themselves for that stereotype when there were other factors in play at the time (see Mop's comment about Nintendo repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on April 19, 2010, 06:58:23 PM
Quote
What has Sony ever done for the video game industry?
Sony is a pretty derivative company but you can't have had two of the most successful consoles of all time and not have had some influence on the industry as a whole.
Sony made videogames cool for teenagers and young adults. Before the Playstation, console videogames were largely played by children. Those who weren't children were largely considered geeks. You didn't play videogames if you here in high school. If you did you were considered a huge dork. But the Playstation attracted a wider audience by offering more "mature" games. Games were cool, provided you played the right ones. Those that thought videogames were childish were now buying games like Tekken, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil and Final Fantasy VII.
The Wii and DS are largely credited for expanding the market, mostly to include middle-aged people and females. The Playstation did a similar expanding of the market but with young males.
It appears that the way to expand the videogame market is to "trick" those outside the market into entering it. Sony did it with FMV, more mature content and some outright exploitation like blood and boobs. Nintendo did it with simplifying gameplay. I'd argue that since Sony's trick was superficial and presentation-based it was less offensive in the eyes of the existing market. Nintendo's approach has been controversially entirely because they touched the gameplay which was the one big no-no. Everyone is welcomed provided that the gameplay is not compromised to accomodate them.
Microsoft's major comtribution to console gaming is that the Xbox more-or-less merged PC and console gaming together. These days PC exclusives are rare and console versions of PC games are considered to be on par quality-wise. In the past PC-to-console ports were always inferior. Now it's pretty much just the personal preference of the player.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 19, 2010, 06:59:42 PM
Sony made videogames cool outside the usual circles of traditional and stereotypical gamers. Sony roped in the jocks and the bullies and the cheerleaders too. Some older gamers, where Nintendo systems and games where looked at as toys, were now free to play madden and metal gear solid on a machine that was viewed as "more mature".
Sony brought the videogames out of the bedrooms and permanently set them up in the livingroom (connected to the bigscreen TV and the stereo system).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ShyGuy on April 19, 2010, 07:48:11 PM
Sony brought us the frat boy gamers? I agree to a certain point, but I think the aging demographic and 3D were factors as well.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on April 19, 2010, 08:03:14 PM
Quote
Sony brought us the frat boy gamers? I agree to a certain point, but I think the aging demographic and 3D were factors as well.
It is somewhat hard to prove one way or another. Sony might have just happened to have the most successful console at a time where gamers from the previous two generations had now grown up.
But Nintendo, the then former market leader, was not releasing games for this demographic. While the Playstation was embracing mature content, Nintendo introduced Mario's voice. ;) I think it's clear Nintendo just wanted to continue to target kids and families because aside from two FPS shooters from Rare (that NCL was probably unaware of the existence of anyway) Nintendo stuck to family-friendly titles. Meanwhile Sega originally was going to make the Saturn 2D and only added 3D capabilities at the last minute. Sony was the only one that embraced both 3D and mature games. So who knows where the fratboy gamers would have gone if the Playstation didn't exist? I suspect it's a market that would have just given up gaming.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ShyGuy on April 19, 2010, 08:14:23 PM
PSOne was right in the heyday of the Image Comics BloodDeath DeathBlood levels of maturity, so I can see where "teh matchoor" really scratched that insecure macho itch. Oh the 90s...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 19, 2010, 08:19:57 PM
They did bring us those gamers.... well we always kinda had them, but it was more open now. Frat boy gamers are the older demo, the college kids that were quietly playing Nintendo/Sega games before hand, but now had Madden set up in the dorms on the PS. Sony brought gaming out of the closet and made it cool and popular.
that was 15 years ago, the aging demo of then is pushing 40 years old now
as far as 3D, weren't almost all if not every PS game in 2D(or at the very best some half assed <fixed perspective?> 3D) before Mario64 was released and showed everyone how 3D was done on the consoles?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ShyGuy on April 19, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
Good point BnM2k1
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on April 19, 2010, 08:35:26 PM
So who knows where the fratboy gamers would have gone if the Playstation didn't exist? I suspect it's a market that would have just given up gaming.
I suspect the third-parties who provided "mature" games for the PlayStation would have developed for the Nintendo 64, thereby making it the console of choice for "frat boy gamers."
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 20, 2010, 12:17:29 AM
It appears that the way to expand the videogame market is to "trick" those outside the market into entering it.
The word is "appeal".
No need to be condescending to those who were previously uninterested in video games.
I think what Ian meant by that is that people tend to form preconceptions about things outside their interests, which deter them from every really diving into them and seeing if it could appeal to them. What happened in the PS1 (and to some extent the PS2 era) was that Sony was able to bring in people who weren't interested in gaming by focusing on aspects of gaming that weren't especially gaming-centric. For instance, we have the famous example of Square hyping Final Fantasy 7 as an interactive movie with a heavy focus on the FMVs in the commercials. People who were interested in movies but never really gave games a second thought took interest, and in the end found they liked gaming after all and stuck with it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on April 20, 2010, 03:10:51 AM
Expanded the industry beyond the hardest of the core gamer and strongly encouraged the growth of new IPs in the Playstation/Playstation 2 (and even now with the PS3) era. But we've done this little dance before.
But what has Sony done for video games that was positive and beneficial? We can't say Hitler never did anything for the world either, but that doesn't mean it was good.
I mean, thanks to Sony shoddy consoles that break down constantly are now the norm. It started with the PS2, and now it is a common event with the PS3 and 360. It never used to be like that. Did Sega Genesis or Super Nintendo/NES systems break down regularly? No. Does the Wii regularly fail to read discs? Did the GC or N64?
Sony has been influential to video games by forcing first 3D gaming and now HD down our throats. They've jacked up the price of gaming in general, and now games are shorter and often ****tier in quality than they used to be.
One can say what they will about the pre-Playstation era, but it was probably the golden age of video games. Back then it was more about the gameplay, and not about FMV HD bull**** like it is today. I miss those days.
Did you ever stop and wonder why VC gaming is as popular as it is? People actually loved those games and still choose to play them even though more graphically impressive FMV content is shoveled out daily. Those games stand the test of time, but the **** Sony gave us is quickly forgotten. Its like the Pre-Playstation era stuff was built on foundations of granite, but the Sony **** was built out of reeds or something. Here today, forgotten tomorrow.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on April 20, 2010, 07:29:41 AM
i wouldn't say Sony so much introduced system shoddiness as much as its an inevitable feature of a disc drive system. I await a future of a return to cartridge like tech.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 20, 2010, 07:33:01 AM
Holographic Media might make it's debut in the 3DS.... probably not initially, but the patent for the carts have been made.
Maybe there's a chance for Wii2HD to use the tech in some fashion, but I'm not getting my hopes up at this point. ::It's way too early to start that HYPE TRAIN.....::
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 20, 2010, 09:43:54 AM
i wouldn't say Sony so much introduced system shoddiness as much as its an inevitable feature of a disc drive system. I await a future of a return to cartridge like tech.
But Nintendo has been using optical drives these last two generations with fair less hardware failures. I know it happens, just as it will happen with anything, but with the Nintendo systems it seems to be happening far less than the RROD 360 or the disc drive failure PS3. Now, why is that?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on April 20, 2010, 01:56:33 PM
Quote
The word is "appeal".
No need to be condescending to those who were previously uninterested in video games.
No "trick" is the right word. Usually gaming isn't rejected on its own merits but rather by bias. Young males assumed games were for kids without trying them. Non-gamers assumed games were too complicated without trying them. They weren't willing to put any effort into looking about what videogames had to offer. So you have to trick them into trying videogames. You have to make them think that THESE games are different and that it's okay for them to be playing them.
While trying to think of something positive Sony contributed, they were better to third parties that Nintendo was. Sega did some of this too but the Playstation era was largely the end of videogame censorship. We also got better translations. Final Fantasy VII was not renamed "Final Fantasy IV" when it logically should have. Later Final Fantasy II and V were released here for the first time and what II & III were re-released as IV & VI. I think before there was a somewhat dumbing down in localizations. Like, we, the dumb little kids who play videogames, would be all confused about our games being from another country. Now it's all open. They'll localize a Japanese game that is entirely for a niche audience here when they wouldn't have in the past. They don't try to Americanize these games too much anymore. They'll keep foreign names and anime artwork and will keep alcohol references and such.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 20, 2010, 02:55:20 PM
*laughs at the age-old favorite line "But back then it was all about the gameplay, man! We never cared about production values till the Playstation came along.*
Ah, so nice to see nostalgia alive and well, along with the blind fanboyism and delusion that comes with it. Sorry, but I've owned every Nintendo console except the Virtual Boy, and game design has advanced so far from those early days it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. We have more choices and more variety in gaming coming from more sources than probably in the history of the industry, catering to a wide range of tastes and interests.
People like to delude themselves with gaming (as with everything else from their childhood) that it was always "better back then" and "more pure", but that doesn't make it so. I certainly remember graphics playing a large role in the SNES vs. Genesis fanboy wars, so I don't know what universe you think it didn't. And you know what the VC is for me? It's a library of games I buy but ironically never get around to playing. I highly doubt I'm the only one with a massive VC backlog, either. The service is "popular" (and if the data we've seen hinted at about the sales on the service is any indication, I'm not sure we can even call it that) because people like the idea of playing old games as comfort food that reminds them of "better days". I'm curious how many people actually play them and still enjoy them the same amount or more now.
As for your comments about Sony "introducing" "shoddy consoles", first off let's be clear on one thing: if it started anywhere, it started with the PS1 (which was notoriously unreliable) not the PS2. ;) I work as a tester, and I can tell you that Hardware failure is a consequence of new technology: the more complicated the system, the more things that can go wrong with it. Nintendo has avoided this through extremely conservative hardware specs and less complicated systems. They prefer instead to release inferior versions of their hardware right out of the gate so they can re-release them with minor tweaks for several years. Whatever. I barely play my Wii, and the thing still broke on me in its first year of use (disc drive failure), so it's not like Nintendo's completely immune to this.
As for your comments about Sony "forcing" various standards on us, guess what: that's how you spur progress in an industry that delights in being sedentary, and it's not like Nintendo is any different. I seem to remember Nintendo "forcing" touch/motion control on us (neither of which I wanted), and they were just as insistent on 3D in the N64 era as any other company (or did you forget their big N64 launch title was a 3D Mario title?). I think overall we turned out just fine.
I could write more, but I'm just about to come off my break so I'll leave it at this: Sony did what Ninten-didn't. They didn't go out of their way to piss of 3rd party developers or the genres they worked in (Yamauchi's infamous comment about RPG gamers being losers comes to mind, given the rising popularity of RPGs at the time), they popularized a storage media (CDs) that lowered development costs across the board, localizations were significantly improved with less censorship, and they pushed for the development of New IPs (and still do) while Nintendo was quite content to stick with the tried and true. We also saw more games make the crossing over to NA from Japan than ever before, though that may or may not have been coincidental alongside the rise of anime in the States.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 20, 2010, 05:20:41 PM
No need to be condescending to those who were previously uninterested in video games.
No "trick" is the right word. Usually gaming isn't rejected on its own merits but rather by bias.
Is there any evidence of this, or is this just your opinion?
Quote
Young males assumed games were for kids without trying them.
Or maybe the games that existed didn't appeal to them, so they didn't play.
Quote
Non-gamers assumed games were too complicated without trying them.
Or maybe the games that existed didn't appeal to them, so they didn't play.
Quote
They weren't willing to put any effort into looking about what videogames had to offer.
Or maybe existing video games didn't offer anything appealing to them.
Quote
So you have to trick them into trying videogames. You have to make them think that THESE games are different and that it's okay for them to be playing them.
Or maybe these games are different, which is why they continue to maintain solid sales. If it was just a trick, the illusion would've faded quickly and we wouldn't be seeing Madden/GTA/WiiFit continuing to be successes. Of course this argument assumes that consumers aren't complete idiots.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on April 20, 2010, 05:44:00 PM
Quote
Or maybe these games are different, which is why they continue to maintain solid sales. If it was just a trick, the illusion would've faded quickly and we wouldn't be seeing Madden/GTA/WiiFit continuing to be successes.
I see videogames as something that once you try it you will typically like it and continue to enjoy it. So it's still a trick because I believe if most of those people tried gaming they would enjoy it. If they were open-minded no one had to make Final Fantasy VII or Wii Sports to get them to play videogames. Maybe "trick" should be swapped with "marketting"? I'm arguing that games already do exist that would appeal to these people if they were willing to try them but they don't so you have to trick them.
I argue that if games had to be made to "appeal" to these people then gaming in fact was kiddy and later on was too complicated and I disagree with both of those.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 20, 2010, 06:04:18 PM
and "marketing" should be switched with "appeal".
see now we've come full circle.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on April 26, 2010, 04:48:40 PM
Ok so I just got cast for one of Sony's Move ads. I was some axe wielding barbarian or something. It was shot this morning, and that guy who I have seen at E3 (don't remember his name but great guy) told me I should see the photos up as early as tomorrow all the way through september! There will be a commercial too, but don't know anything about when it airs.
Anyway, I was holding an axe and shield while they had me pose and flail around. Then they replaced both props with real Move remotes. It felt pretty comfortable, didn't look nearly as goofy in person and really it was like holding the wiimote. Every click of the trigger made the ice cream flash a different color. It's supposed to be as good as wii motion plus and in some cases a bit better right? What ever the case it was heavily geared toward 2 remotes in each hand, which for the game I was pretending to play would be impossible to do unless it were on rails or some kind of fighting game. What I did was exactly like Nintendo's ads before it, should be interesting to see if they deliver.
With that, I really have no insight on the Move, just wanted to say I worked for Sony.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 26, 2010, 04:52:43 PM
So you're that blond middle-aged guy in all the recent Sony Commercials? Hmm....
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on April 26, 2010, 04:59:09 PM
So you're that blond middle-aged guy in all the recent Sony Commercials? Hmm....
Hahaha, that's me!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 26, 2010, 06:03:44 PM
Don't forget to update your IMDB ;)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/a1ti1e.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on April 26, 2010, 06:20:27 PM
Crap... I'll do it tonight...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: EasyCure on May 04, 2010, 11:15:17 PM
congrats Cat! I'll keep a lookout for that spot to air and tell all my friends i sorta know you!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on May 05, 2010, 03:15:04 AM
he still hasn't updated his imdb
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caterkiller on May 06, 2010, 07:09:52 PM
I'll do it today for sure! For sure!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 06, 2010, 07:26:56 PM
That's what you've been saying about the "Stop.... Camera Time!" thread too.
tonite @ midnight, stop what your doing and pull out a camera and take a pic of whatever is happening right infront of you.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on May 07, 2010, 06:15:17 AM
Why do you want a thread of pictures of computer screens showing porn?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 07, 2010, 10:58:26 AM
I figure some of us lead a more interesting life filled with actual events and real people. If someone wants to expose their masturbatory habits, then that is up to them.
But those of us that do (live life outside the internet) can post pics those of us that don't (at least on that particular day and at that particular time) can look at pics.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2010, 03:52:16 PM
Playstation Move Controller $59.99 (http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/11/playstation-move-controller-priced-at-60-in-canada/)
Quote
Sony's been pretty fuzzy on pricing for the PlayStation Move -- we've only really heard "under $100" for the full package with controller and camera -- but it looks like the numbers are starting to solidify, as Gamestop Canada has the controller itself now listed for $59.99. How that number will translate into a US price is obviously up in the air, but Sony's MSRPs tend to be the same or similar across the US and Canada, so we'd say we've at least got a reasonable estimate of how much this thing is going to cost. We'd also guess that this points to a full package price of $99, but we'll see -- Sony's got months before the Move's planned holiday launch to tweak all these numbers.
There is no way just the controller is gonna cost that much though. That must be for the controller and the camera and would look more like this in pricing
Move Controller and Camera - $59.99 Additional Move Controller - $29.99 Move Navigation Controller - $19.99 -------------------------------------- Complete 1 player Move Experience - $109.97
It's not less than the $100 they said before, but it's pretty close, until you include tax.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 11, 2010, 03:56:24 PM
KICK ME
IN THE NUTS
Consumers, if you weren't savvy before, get savvy now.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on May 11, 2010, 04:02:24 PM
There is no way just the controller is gonna cost that much though. That must be for the controller and the camera and would look more like this in pricing
Move Controller and Camera - $59.99 Additional Move Controller - $29.99 Move Navigation Controller - $19.99 -------------------------------------- Complete 1 player Move Experience - $109.97
It's not less than the $100 they said before, but it's pretty close, until you include tax.
All things considered, that wouldn't be as horrible a price as it looked a few months ago. It's actually not all that far off the price for a Wiimote ($40) + nunchuck ($20) + Motion+ ($25), and supposedly the motion control is a little bit better. Of course, the Wii remote and accessories are severely overpriced as well IMO, so that's not saying a lot. A pity I can't say the same for the Move games announced so far.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2010, 04:21:33 PM
Yeah, I used GS numbers just to use a base number, considering it's second only to Walmart in retail game sales. Special bundles and whatnot like your Wiimote w/ M+ bundle are naturally going to lower prices, but there's no reason to believe the Move won't have similar ones as well. But we'll see what happens when we get North American prices.
Of course, as I said before the real problem with this controller isn't the price but the selection of games that will use it. So far, the lineup's pretty pitiful.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 11, 2010, 04:27:32 PM
So the PS3 move thing costs almost as much as buying a Wii console?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on May 11, 2010, 04:46:24 PM
So the PS3 move thing costs almost as much as buying a Wii console?
Only if those numbers turn out to be accurate for the North American release, and only if you're (for some bizarre reason) buying 2 Move controllers despite only playing 1 Player games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2010, 04:47:41 PM
So the PS3 move thing costs almost as much as buying a Wii console?
Only if those numbers turn out to be accurate for the North American release, and only if you're (for some bizarre reason) buying 2 Move controllers despite only playing 1 Player games.
I guess you didn't see the 1 player games that required 2 move controllers, like boxing and air traffic control ;).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on May 11, 2010, 04:52:51 PM
So the PS3 move thing costs almost as much as buying a Wii console?
Only if those numbers turn out to be accurate for the North American release, and only if you're (for some bizarre reason) buying 2 Move controllers despite only playing 1 Player games.
I guess you didn't see the 1 player games that required 2 move controllers, like boxing and air traffic control ;) .
The Nav Controller doesn't have motion control capability ala the Wiimote Nunchuck?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2010, 05:01:50 PM
2 different souces say 2 different things, but that doesn't change the fact that the boxing game uses two disco sticks to track both hands. (http://i43.tinypic.com/e6c9ao.jpg)
and to do things like this: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=29445.msg594635#msg594635 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=29445.msg594635#msg594635)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 12, 2010, 01:38:23 PM
Pachter Sez: Playstation Move is the WiiHD I've been referring to all along!!!! (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/being-michael-pachter-interview?page=1)
Quote
Eurogamer: Let's talk about E3. Who would you rather be: Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony?
Michael Pachter: It really depends on this 3DS and how good it is, because I don't think Nintendo has anything else. Nintendo is on the verge of - certainly not dropping into third place or anything - losing its dominance, because I really truly believe that Sony Move is the Wii HD. I really believe it. That's been my quote: I told everyone a Wii HD was coming this year, it just happens to say PS3 on the box. It is the Wii HD.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 12, 2010, 01:40:12 PM
Can we censor the name "pachter" now?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on May 12, 2010, 01:40:25 PM
Pachter Sez: Playstation Move is the WiiHD I've been referring to all along!!!! (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/being-michael-pachter-interview?page=1)
Quote
Eurogamer: Let's talk about E3. Who would you rather be: Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony?
Michael Pachter: It really depends on this 3DS and how good it is, because I don't think Nintendo has anything else. Nintendo is on the verge of - certainly not dropping into third place or anything - losing its dominance, because I really truly believe that Sony Move is the Wii HD. I really believe it. That's been my quote: I told everyone a Wii HD was coming this year, it just happens to say PS3 on the box. It is the Wii HD.
Yeah, right. Suuuuuuure you meant a Sony motion controller all along. That totally matches up with everything you've been saying over the last several years, Pacter. ::)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 12, 2010, 02:14:16 PM
I forgot to bold a very important part of that quote
Quote from: Michael Pachter
Nintendo is on the verge of - certainly not dropping into third place or anything - losing its dominance, because I really truly believe that Sony Move is the Wii HD.
But that doesn't really help Pachter out.
and apparently, neither does this:
The Pachter Prediction Tally: http://ramraider.blogspot.com/
Wrong x12 - Right x4
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: vudu on May 12, 2010, 02:21:36 PM
LOL, so because he had the most concise quote his opinion matters least? But you listed him first!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 12, 2010, 02:38:29 PM
The more quickly it is to get it out of the way.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 12, 2010, 02:39:31 PM
You are getting off topic. Pachter was 1 of 3 analyst quoted that made sense in explaining the topic I was discussing and his quote came first because he was listed first in the article that quote came from.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 12, 2010, 02:49:53 PM
Pack Turd's predictions are as unreliable as those of Sylvia Browne.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2010, 04:51:47 PM
Sony has their E3 site up http://www.sceainvites.com/
It mentions GT5, Mod Nation Racers and a few Move games are up on the site.
p.s. It's a flash site (sorry iPad users :P)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on May 15, 2010, 07:23:19 AM
Better article about the Online Pass: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/toll-booth (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/toll-booth)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 15, 2010, 11:51:14 AM
Better article about the Online Pass: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/toll-booth (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/toll-booth)
They argue the concerns pretty well, but barely touch on the reasonings of this. I know they are speaking solely from a gamer perspective, which is fine, but they didn't really go into why this happening.
Also reading a bunch of the comment, quite a few of the reader all take this as a personal attack on them when its more a shove at the 2nd hand retailer(who buy back cheap and then charge $5 less than new) and online pirates(who pay nothing to anyone but play with everyone).
Also I agree that it is a slippery slope and have said so in the other thread, and if EA or any company that partakes in this still cuts off the old server shortly after the new release, then consumers, especially those that paid for their online pass separately, have every right to pick a fight and demand server extension since that is what they paid for.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 15, 2010, 12:11:16 PM
Please don't bring your pro-EA, anti-consumer argument into this thread too. The Online Pass is pure BS and EA is just asking for a lawsuit. It punishes people who buy a used copy (which is just as legal, moral, and ethical as buying a new copy), those who rent the game (which is a big thing for those who can't really afford to buy many games), and those who borrow a friends copy (to see if they might like the game). EA is not doing it for any reason other than greed, they want to make sure that they make money from anyone who wants to play online (one of the biggest features of sports games), either by buying the game new or paying a fee for the feature.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 15, 2010, 12:50:40 PM
Excuse me, but I was commenting on the article not trying to engage in yet another pointless argument with you. so unless you have something to say about this article, then take it back to the other thread. We don't need another thread of your poor analogies and horrible debating of facts and reasons.
p.s.(there is a 7 day free pass for every account that can be used by 2nd hand purchasers, friends that borrow and renters, so atleast get your facts straight.)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 15, 2010, 01:09:55 PM
I found 2 comments in the comment section that I thought was pretty good and I pretty much agree with.
Quote from: Kami
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/toll-booth#comment1649441 (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/toll-booth#comment1649441) The problem here is the consumer gets screwed every single way here. The retailers with second-hand mark-ups that shouldn't even be legal, Project Ten Dollar now giving access to online content if you buy second hand (which for a reasonably new game still falls into the "Better buy it new" thing). The loser, in the end, is the consumer - who gets shafted from every angle with varying degrees of force.
I don't particularly see what EA is doing as inherently bad - I see their case and argument, and as long as online components are still more on the optional side, I'm not seeing the slippery slope just yet. If we visibly see them chopping up perfectly good games and charging us extra for them - then by all means, let us be outraged and burn the witches. EA, like other devs, are tackling this horrid business practice of Gamestop et al charging near enough the RRP for a second-hand title - and it is a horrid practice, and the retailers who participate will burn in a very special corner of hell I am sure.
The reality is, as a PC user we've had CD-Keys being one-time use for years. You use a CD-Key, that's it, the game is yours end of. PC Games are, admittedly, often £5-£10 cheaper (though the price gap is narrowing, much to my annoyance!) but we only get the one key. We can't sell on PC games. And yet oddly, for some bizarre reason, we have no qualms about the PC market and how that is run - just on the DRM (which is a separate argument).
Project $10 should be jeered only if it becomes abundantly clear that the games are being stripped out for the sole intention of making money from us. Free but optional DLC? Nice perk. Online modes? Nice, but hardly necessary. This is a fight, a war between Devs and Publishers against The Retailers, each side trying to outmanoeuvre the other, trying to make their prices or perks sound sweeter. We, the consumers, are the casualties, and we're going to suffer for a while sadly whilst this battle takes place.
Older games won't be affected I am sure - but any future game after this fight will need to prove it's worth the cash, and if not... well... devs and publishers can go the way of the dodo, along with retailers who refuse to go along with the fact there's more than one way to skin a cat - or in this sense, buy rent and stream games.
We must wait and see, because what happens will probably set the tone for the industry for many years... hmm... what was it Harry Hill says?
Oh yeah.
FIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGHHHHHHTTTTT!
Quote from: rock27gr
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/toll-booth#comment1649567 If you are a first buyer, this doesn't hurt you.
If you aren't, you are not their customer anyway.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Shaymin on May 15, 2010, 07:21:02 PM
Please don't bring your pro-EA, anti-consumer argument into this thread too. The Online Pass is pure BS and EA is just asking for a lawsuit. It punishes people who buy a used copy (which is just as legal, moral, and ethical as buying a new copy), those who rent the game (which is a big thing for those who can't really afford to buy many games), and those who borrow a friends copy (to see if they might like the game). EA is not doing it for any reason other than greed, they want to make sure that they make money from anyone who wants to play online (one of the biggest features of sports games), either by buying the game new or paying a fee for the feature.
I see the point with used games, but they're apparently doing a 7 day free trial which will cover most rentals (unless you keep it out from Gamefly for a month) and lending.
Of course, if this isn't per EA ID, heads will roll.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 28, 2010, 04:26:07 PM
Sony: Move is not Wii on PS3 (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/39200/Sony-Move-is-not-Wii-on-PS3)
Quote
Platform holder draws the dividing line between itself and its competitors ahead of E3
Anyone who thinks PlayStation move is simply Wii on PS3 has got it wrong – that’s the message Sony wants to put out ahead of its more detailed reveal of Move at E3 next month.
Several high-profile commentators, including the likes of Nintendo boss Reggie Fils-Aime and analyst Michael Pachter, have dismissed Move as simply a clone of the existing machine.
However, much like Sega boss Mike Hayes, Sony thinks the comparison is wide of the mark.
“It’s inevitable that people would say this is Wii on PS3,” UK PR boss David Wilson told MCV. “But we see it as a complimentary product. It’s a different proposition.
“And let’s not forget, we’ve been in this space before with EyeToy and all the rest of it. There are learnings there. It’s not alien territory for us but we need to educate people about the potential that it has.”
Sales director Mark Howsen added: “Wii was deliberately pick up and play. We completely understand that and, let’s be honest, they’ve done a superb job.
“I think with Move it’s all about appealing to skill. It’s about the learning curve that’s built into the experience. It provides that satisfaction you’re talking about. The more you play the better you get. That’s part and parcel of the traditional gaming experience.”
So Move is like PS2 & PS3 development. It's difficult at first, but if you stick it out, put in the time and learn the process, there is a lot of potential that you can get out of the machine....
That may have worked with developers, but do you really see that working with casual and/or regular gamers? Hardcores may work it out, but everyone else will just put it down and never pick it up again.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 28, 2010, 04:35:50 PM
But Pachter says it's supposed to be WiiHD.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on May 28, 2010, 04:57:24 PM
I think the Sony guy is implying that Wii games aren't challenging and don't require skill. Videogames requiring skill and improving with experience is pretty normal and doesn't seem like something to normally mention as a pro. He also specifically mentions "traditional gaming" and how the Wii is "pick up and play". I think he's suggesting that the Wii is for casuals and Move is not the same thing because it isn't. I think this is a casual vs. core gamer thing.
Though that seems inconsistent with Sony's previous attitude about the Move where they seem to want to pigeonhole it as a casual thing aimed at the Wii blue ocean.
You know, admitting this is similar to the Wii wouldn't be that bad. If Nintendo did a good job what's wrong with refining their idea? Move looks to have much more potential than Natal will. MS is doing this weird-ass thing to stand out, but it reeks of innovation for the sake of innovation and we all question if it's even going to work worth a damn. By being more conventional Sony is suggesting that their goal is to have something that works well, not necessarily something that is unique. What's wrong with stealing over people's good ideas while coming up with good ideas of your own? What's better? Being unique or being the best?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 07, 2010, 12:31:31 PM
This likely has absolutely nothing to do with motion control directly(and may not even be real), but 3D is mainstream and mainstream is blue ocean.
Viral Video Apparently Teases 3D PS3 (http://kotaku.com/5557132/viral-video-teases-ps4-v31) or man gets brain fried using PS hardware?
Quote
A viral video apparently plugging some new sort of Playstation technology surfaced over the weekend. Is it for 3D gaming (likely) or the Playstation 4 (seriously doubt it)?
The clip opens up with a night vision shoot of some sort of complex. The text reads S.C.E. Principal Scientific Research Laboratory, Minami-Aoyama, Tokyo, Japan. (Sony Computer Entertainment has offices in Minami-Aoyama.)
A woman answers the door and tells the guy with the camera to cooperate. They then race through the hallways of the structure, telling each other to hurry. They throw open a door, and the woman asks what the guy in the lab coat is doing.
In the next room, there is a guy on the floor. They take off his glasses and remove the controller from his hand. As they try to take the controller from his hands, the man on the ground begins squealing.
The video then cuts out to a title card that reads: "PS4 V3.1 - Please Wait A Moment".
The end appears to be related more with the PS3's 3D feature than with brand new hardware. As promotion for the PS3's 3D capabilities kick into high gear, obviously we could expect to see television ads promoting this feature. From the blurred glimpses in the commercial, the television in the clips seems as though it could be 3D.
The bit at the end that mentions "PS4 V3.1" could have been added in post production by someone besides the makers of this clip. It is possible.
This video has not been confirmed to be connected with Sony or the PlayStation. It is slick and professional, yes, but is it from Sony? And what parts of it are from Sony? Kotaku is following up.
I'm not sure what to think about the video, but it was extremely choppy on this POS laptop. Did anyone see the controller they were trying to pry from that guys hands?
I'm sure that if this is real, E3 just got that much more interesting. E3 2010 is already gonna be the best e3 in a really long time.]
edit: youtube link to video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoIPdRbPOmU
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 07, 2010, 01:47:16 PM
That video is awful. It wasn't in 3D, and it didn't make me want to Move.
What's even worse are the new 3D TV commercials with families entering warp drive by putting on lame 3D glasses. I hope the industry goes the glasses route and dies.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 07, 2010, 07:46:24 PM
3D movies may be mainstream, but not 3D TVs. First, they are way too expensive for the average house. Second, it appears that each brand of 3D TV requires their own glasses (i.e. if you buy a Sony 3D TV you have to have glasses designed specifically for that model), this would hurt it since you can't invite people over unless you have extra glasses or hope they happen to have the same brand.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 07, 2010, 09:51:28 PM
You're supposed to be the "cool" friend and buy as many glasses as needed for everyone else who visits.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2010, 11:33:29 AM
Miyamoto: MS and Sony motion devices are “threatening” (http://www.vg247.com/2010/06/03/miyamoto-ms-and-sony-motion-devices-are-threatening/)
Quote
Nintendo’s Shigeru Miyamoto’s told Edge that Microsoft and Sony’s rush to motion with Natal and Move is “threatening” behaviour.
“Whenever something we have created and presented is followed by copies, we always feel it is threatening,” said the dev legend.
“More than that, we’re concerned that others are trying to do something similar for the sake of it. It’s not encouraging to Nintendo.”
The exec was answering a question on whether or not he saw parallels between the uptake of motion controllers and the “borrowing” of analog sticks in the PlayStation generation.
Both Natal and Move will release towards the end of this year, and both will feature heavily at E3 later this month.
Nintendo will show its latest hardware, 3DS, at the LA event.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2010, 12:35:21 PM
I'm beginning to see double. Is this Nintendo's new 3D at work?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 08, 2010, 03:13:02 PM
I still don't understand why Nintendo doesn't ever sue Sony (and others) for stealing their innovations. They didn't sue Sony for ripping off analog sticks, and apparently it doesn't look like they're doing anything to stop this Move thing. WTF??
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2010, 03:34:18 PM
What Nintendo needs to do next time they invent something is to not only patent how they did it, but patent any other way they can think of doing it too.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 08, 2010, 03:55:43 PM
It doesn't make sense, because Nintendo had no problem going after people who were making and selling NES clones (before the patents expired), yet for some reason they let Sony get away with patent violations.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2010, 04:32:33 PM
They are executing certain things in certain ways or implementation of how Nintendo implemented it was the only thing Nintendo had patented.
Like the D-Pad.
they couldn't stop others from using d-pads, but they couldn't be shaped like Nintendo's. you will notice Sony has the separated d-pad and MS has the rounded one.
with the joystick, Nintendo has the octagonal ring around it. Sony's is smooth and loose and I don't remember the difference for MS's, but I'm sure it's not identical to Sony's or Nintendo's.
BUt I think Nitnendo's problem was only patenting specific implementation instead of blanket patenting an idea, but that may be because they weren't the first ones to come up with the tech, just the first one to use it in the way that they are.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2010, 05:25:54 PM
Nintendo's problem is it's taking so long to destroy the industry. Wish they'd hurry up and quit being generous to 3rd Parties and competitors.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on June 09, 2010, 03:41:55 AM
I'm glad as hell Nintendo didn't or can't patent more than the technology they are actually using.
Other patents are just anti-competitive and have no place. I want other companies to be able to compete with Nintendo in their own way instead of being forced out because everything under the sun has been patented, including technology that isn't even being used. Patents aren't supposed to lock out the competition. There's more than one way to break an egg.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 09, 2010, 09:08:44 AM
they couldn't stop others from using d-pads, but they couldn't be shaped like Nintendo's. you will notice Sony has the separated d-pad and MS has the rounded one.
More likely because Nintendo didn't invent the d-pad.
SixthAngel, patents are supposed to give companies exclusive rights to something they created. If Nintendo creates something unique, they can (and should) patent it. Other companies then can either try to create their own version, license it, or wait 20 years for the patent to expire.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 09, 2010, 05:32:09 PM
they couldn't stop others from using d-pads, but they couldn't be shaped like Nintendo's. you will notice Sony has the separated d-pad and MS has the rounded one.
More likely because Nintendo didn't invent the d-pad.
yeah. I kinda mentioned that in my post.
But anyway, what I actually came in here to post.
Sony either has more to talk about at E3 than they have time for or they just really wanted to get it out that they are doing 3D first and are afraid that Nintendo is gonna drown everyone else(MS & Sony) out.
3D Gaming Arrives On PlayStation 3 (http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/06/09/3d-gaming-arrives-on-playstation-3/)
Quote
Tomorrow, there will be a special PlayStation Store update, which will usher in a new era of videogames where you can truly feel part of the action. By downloading the 3D Collection you can play WipEout HD, SuperStardust HD, PAIN and a MotorStorm Pacific Rift demo in amazing stereoscopic 3D.
You can download all four for the bargain price of €29.99 or pick them up for free when you buy a Sony Bravia 3D TV package. Of course, if you already own WipEout HD, SuperStardust HD or PAIN, there will be a free software update, so that you can play them in 3D
Apparently there will be 20 3D enabled titles this fiscal year for Sony and their Move Boxing game will be one of them.
I think it's kinda smart for Sony to get out ahead of E3 and announce some things they don't want lost in the flood of information, but this really seems like they wanted to get this out before Nintendo made a big stink about the 3DS and shat all over Sony's parade.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 09, 2010, 05:37:13 PM
Are the shutter glasses free to download?
Will upgrading my PS3 upgrade my TV and smartphone to 3D?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 09, 2010, 05:45:52 PM
They just needed to plant that flag before anyone else could say they did it first.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 09, 2010, 06:46:19 PM
Do what? First to come second to the Virtual Boy?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 09, 2010, 06:48:55 PM
Not to mention that there have already been several 3D games this gen, both on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 09, 2010, 08:12:55 PM
The first system to fully support FULL color stereoscopic 3D (without the need for red/blue glasses).
REAL 3D gaming.... not affordable 3D gaming, but break the bank just to play single player and BYO3DG if you wanna see what I see or try out the multi-player gaming.
That flag needed to be planted since Nintendo is about to drop a heavy boot on it with REAL 3D gaming... Affordable 3D gaming where everyone can afford to own their own screen (for close to the price of a pair of 3D glasses).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 10, 2010, 12:53:51 AM
Consumers who've recently upgraded their TVs and consoles to HD now experience the joy of having to upgrade once again to 3D!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on June 10, 2010, 02:44:24 AM
Nintendo had the patent for the d-pad for years, but hardware patents run out after 20 years. Around the year 2000 it expired. I remember there was talk of it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2010, 02:53:39 AM
Nintendo had the patent for the d-pad for years, but hardware patents run out after 20 years. Around the year 2000 it expired. I remember there was talk of it.
If it's true that Nintendo's D-pad design is no longer protected by patent, I'm surprised Microsoft and Sony haven't changed their designs to bring them closer to the D-Pad's (especially in Microsoft's case since that D-Pad is so shoddy. Sony's is just a little weird since it's segmented).
The first system to fully support FULL color stereoscopic 3D (without the need for red/blue glasses).
REAL 3D gaming.... not affordable 3D gaming, but break the bank just to play single player and BYO3DG if you wanna see what I see or try out the multi-player gaming.
That flag needed to be planted since Nintendo is about to drop a heavy boot on it with REAL 3D gaming... Affordable 3D gaming where everyone can afford to own their own screen (for close to the price of a pair of 3D glasses).
Now in all fairness, Black, Nintendo's incorporating 3D technology with a handheld. That's an entirely different application of the tech, so I wouldn't be praising Nintendo as you did right there. It's not like they announced a 3D Wii HD. Of course, I wish all these companies throwing their hat into the folly that is 3D would knock it off since it's even more of a gimmick than motion control has shown to be thus far.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2010, 09:24:11 AM
What I said is true though.
1 is affordable 3D and the other is not.
1 I have to buy a new TV, 3D glasses for everyone that wants to watch and a PS3. the other I have to buy a 3DS, which is speculated to cost about $50 more than a pair of 3D glasses.
There is no denying the facts. They are both bringing REAL 3D gaming to the home, but for one I could afford it for the whole family to experience, and the other I couldn't afford it just for myself and much less for the whole family.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on June 10, 2010, 10:32:17 AM
The first system to fully support FULL color stereoscopic 3D (without the need for red/blue glasses).
REAL 3D gaming.... not affordable 3D gaming, but break the bank just to play single player and BYO3DG if you wanna see what I see or try out the multi-player gaming.
That flag needed to be planted since Nintendo is about to drop a heavy boot on it with REAL 3D gaming... Affordable 3D gaming where everyone can afford to own their own screen (for close to the price of a pair of 3D glasses).
I remember shutter glasses coming with PC graphics cards in the late 90s.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 10, 2010, 11:38:01 AM
If it's true that Nintendo's D-pad design is no longer protected by patent, I'm surprised Microsoft and Sony haven't changed their designs to bring them closer to the D-Pad's (especially in Microsoft's case since that D-Pad is so shoddy. Sony's is just a little weird since it's segmented).
Sony hasn't changed the design of their controller in any respect since the original Dual Shock 15 or so years ago. At this point with it being so entrenched and with such a long history behind it it becomes less and less likely they will ever step in and fix its various quirks and annoyances. Maybe Sony is afraid that if they did revolutionize their controller their would be a backlash from their fans like what happened to Coca-Cola when they introduced New Coke in the 80s. That's probably why Sony backed down from that Batarang controller thing that they had unveiled prior to the launch of the PS3. It was just too different from the old dual shock design that fans know and "love".
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ShyGuy on June 10, 2010, 01:22:38 PM
The first system to fully support FULL color stereoscopic 3D (without the need for red/blue glasses).
REAL 3D gaming.... not affordable 3D gaming, but break the bank just to play single player and BYO3DG if you wanna see what I see or try out the multi-player gaming.
That flag needed to be planted since Nintendo is about to drop a heavy boot on it with REAL 3D gaming... Affordable 3D gaming where everyone can afford to own their own screen (for close to the price of a pair of 3D glasses).
I remember shutter glasses coming with PC graphics cards in the late 90s.
Those things gave me a headache
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on June 10, 2010, 05:08:05 PM
i bet Sony's batarang was probably not half bad either.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2010, 06:01:35 PM
Eurogamer Interviews Sony... (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sonys-ray-maguire-interview) and Sony says something silly
Quote
Eurogamer: Have you seen much of the Nintendo 3DS?
Ray Maguire: No.
Eurogamer: How concerned are you about the 3DS as a rival 3D technology?
Ray Maguire: You might think this is just a stock answer, but I firmly believe the PS3 was way over-specced when it came out at launch, as people thought then. We're now finding the vision of putting all that into the box in the first place is coming to fruition. The ability to do decent 3D, for instance, is only because of the processing power within it.
You've seen the device transition from being games-focused into something broader, with the firmware updates and the additions to the cross-media bar. It's transitioned massively over the last three years and you can see why we put the tech in there in the first place.
Obviously, the Slim has helped us get the price down a bit, and that's helped to get it into more of a mass market. But fundamentally, you are getting a lot of stuff in the PS3 for the money - and we haven't seen all of it yet.
Eurogamer:But do people want over-specced technology? The Wii and the DS have been winning the sales war hands-down, and they're the least high-tech of all the machines on the market.
Ray Maguire: When you do the analysis, yes, some of our competitors have been really successful. Appealing to a potentially smaller market at a lower price is a great strategy, and it's worked particularly well for one of our competitors.
However, when you then look at two years of massive decline, you wonder whether saturation in one part of the marketplace is as good as having a slower burn to enable a device to appeal to everyone in a mass market. That's the position we took with PSone and PS2 and the strategy worked with those two. We've already sold way over three-and-a-half million PS3 units now and we have yet to reach a mass-market price point.
So I think our strategy is correct. It gives developers the ability to create without being limited. And now we can switch on 3D without having to create a new machine.
Eurogamer:But is there a market for 3D? I don't know anyone who's got a 3D telly. I know plenty of people who are quite happy with their HD flat-screens and don't have any plans to upgrade, let alone enough cash. Who's going to buy all these 3D games?
Ray Maguire: The same argument would have been levelled at introducing a £425 PS3. The answer is, people do want new technology. There are always early adopters of technology; the same people who bought iPads are the same people who will buy 3D TVs. People crave the next experience. That's how we're programmed - we want bigger, better, deeper experiences. One of the ways to get those is by relying on companies like Sony to put R&D into technology and innovation.
Oh Sony... Nintendo has appealed to a potentially smaller market? Is that why you are rushing out with Move and Ms doing the same with Natal? Is that why Nintendo has nearly the same amount of Wii's sold as you and MS combined? Is that why the DS has taken the title of #1 & fastest selling machine from the PS2 and still growing?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on June 10, 2010, 06:40:24 PM
so Sony is trying to say that a ps3 is such a long burn product that it will eventually eat Wii sales and have an even bigger market? That they released a product so powerful and over-specced that they didn't expect it to do well until they could get prices down, and then it could sell really well? Sony is getting fucking dumb. They forget they are competing with Microsoft? The biggest flaw with their "slow burn" plan is that in 5 years Nintendo has made several billion dollars, while Sony has done nothing but lose money. Not to mention 5 years after the Wii Nintendo can just release a more powerful than ps3 console and kill any advantage ps3 would have. Not to mention Microsoft would do the same thing.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 10, 2010, 07:10:35 PM
It's typical Sony spin. What else can they say when the Wii typically outsells all 3 of Sony's systems combined?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2010, 07:54:22 PM
It's much better for marketing and more comforting to shareholders to say "Hey, it's sort of possible that we could come back and win in the long term" than to say "Nintendo beat the crap out of us in sales, so now we're blatantly copying them, and they've already beaten us at 3D before it even started," even when the latter is the truth.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on June 11, 2010, 01:42:29 AM
the only spin sony should be making is "we make better stuff", which isn't the case. That is what Nintendo used to do when Sony was hammering them...but it was true
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 12, 2010, 05:01:38 PM
the reason why the don't include prices for the Subcon is because they found out it gives you Warts.
That might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen you type.
What is really creepy was that you were watching me type.
there is a place for lame Super Mario bros 2. jokes, and it would be on a Nintendo forum. Now, either you just didn't find it funny, or the joke went over your head. I shouldn't have to explain a complex joke about hygiene, ergonomics, and homophones.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ymeegod on July 16, 2010, 07:21:10 AM
"Camera, Move, Sports Champion - $99.99"
Bleh, rather pick my own game than be stuck with Chumpion. Socom 4 is one of the few that I actually care about, that and the Fighter one--the one where you can use dual-wands :).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 21, 2010, 05:42:38 PM
Why is Sony Move better than MS Kinect and Nintendo Wii?
Lets check the Comparison Chart
(http://imgur.com/85UcY.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 21, 2010, 06:11:54 PM
An obvious omission from the Sony Chart is that the Wii's secondary controller doesn't need an internal rechargeable battery because it's tethered to the Wiimote, which can have a rechargeable battery put in that you don't need to remove.
Also a major plus to their list would have been a games comparison to Kinect. The only drawback to that would have been that they would have to compare it to almost every single Wii game ever made, including WiiWare(and possibly VC).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on July 21, 2010, 10:38:52 PM
I'm guessing the next 3 pages of the flier are dedicated to Wii's motion-enabled games available this holiday season. Because this is a comparative report, correct?
Also, "Blu-ray powered HD"??? I'm going to have to get my favourite tv station to start broadcasting in blu-ray.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 22, 2010, 11:32:44 AM
An obvious omission from the Sony Chart is that the Wii's secondary controller doesn't need an internal rechargeable battery because it's tethered to the Wiimote, which can have a rechargeable battery put in that you don't need to remove.
Not to mention it'd be pretty damn odd for Kinect to have an internal rechargeable battery with no controller at all.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Louieturkey on July 22, 2010, 02:58:31 PM
An obvious omission from the Sony Chart is that the Wii's secondary controller doesn't need an internal rechargeable battery because it's tethered to the Wiimote, which can have a rechargeable battery put in that you don't need to remove.
Not to mention it'd be pretty damn odd for Kinect to have an internal rechargeable battery with no controller at all.
Especially when it's already plugged into the 360.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 22, 2010, 04:35:54 PM
A built-in rechargeable battery isn't a good feature, imho. One thing I like about the Wii remote is that it uses standard AA batteries which CAN BE REMOVED AND REPLACED. Batteries don't last forever, so a device with a built-in battery that no longer works is useless. Is it really that much of a hassle to pop in a few freshly charged batteries every 2-3 days? I recall the same thing happened with Sony's Sixaxis controller, but apparently they just don't care. In fact, maybe they want the batteries to die out so that consumers will be FORCED to buy new controllers when they otherwise might not have.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: MegaByte on July 22, 2010, 05:48:25 PM
An obvious omission from the Sony Chart is that the Wii's secondary controller doesn't need an internal rechargeable battery because it's tethered to the Wiimote, which can have a rechargeable battery put in that you don't need to remove.
Not to mention it'd be pretty damn odd for Kinect to have an internal rechargeable battery with no controller at all.
Especially when it's already plugged into the 360.
AND an electrical outlet (unless you have the 360 Slim).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 25, 2010, 08:54:20 AM
the worst invention ever is a battery powered battery charger....
But it would be kinda useful if you were lost in the woods and your cell phone was dead and this way you could charge your cell phone using the batteries in your CD player, or something.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 07, 2010, 01:32:29 PM
Move has a website and it's hosted by Kevin Butler http://www.movemadeabsurdlyeasy.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/# (http://www.movemadeabsurdlyeasy.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/#)
Here they even take a direct shot at Kinect: LOL http://www.yaybuttons.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/ (http://www.yaybuttons.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/)
there is even a page that compares Move to Stuff http://www.movevsstuff.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/ (http://www.movevsstuff.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/)
and it a fair comparison too.... (http://i55.tinypic.com/aome77.png) imagine that :P:
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on September 07, 2010, 01:53:45 PM
How does the Wii not fall into the "Controller you can feel and see"? It has force feedback and a physical controller and I can, you know, SEE it. It's not invisible.
The Move apparently comes out in less than two weeks. Did you know that? I sure didn't. There doesn't seem to be any buzz about it or promotion.
I figured in theory that Move and Kinect would be like a new generation for Sony and MS so they don't have to release a new console. I still think it would be dumb for them to do so since the hardware jump will be too expensive (and I personally don't want them to do because then Nintendo will be behind AGAIN) but this stuff is going to BOMB. Move isn't Kinect bad but the whole thing sounds like a complete disaster. In fact I think Nintendo should be worried because this might sour the general public on motion control altogether. Motion control has some major kinks in it that even Nintendo can't quite hide. These guys are going to make those flaws out in the open.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: King of Twitch on September 07, 2010, 02:09:29 PM
Move and Kinect are going to bomb, therefore Nintendo is doomed and Wii's motion controls are majorly flawed, that's an amazing trick.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 07, 2010, 02:12:43 PM
It's ok, because in a year (or 2) Nintendo will be on to the next one.
Let's hope Nintendo stays 1 step ahead of whatever MS & Sony have planned.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Morari on September 07, 2010, 04:17:41 PM
Move isn't Kinect bad but the whole thing sounds like a complete disaster. In fact I think Nintendo should be worried because this might sour the general public on motion control altogether. Motion control has some major kinks in it that even Nintendo can't quite hide. These guys are going to make those flaws out in the open.
I've thought from early on that this would be my main concern if I were Nintendo. Sony already failed when they tried to outdo the Wii with their Six-Axis junk. Now they're embarrassing themselves with a bunch of junk launch titles for Move. It's too late in the game to not come out of the gate with great software. Nintendo's already done all of the work for them, figuring out a lot of what does and doesn't get by in terms of game design.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on September 07, 2010, 07:30:09 PM
In fact I think Nintendo should be worried because this might sour the general public on motion control altogether. Motion control has some major kinks in it that even Nintendo can't quite hide. These guys are going to make those flaws out in the open.
Considering that some early impressions of Move say it doesn't work very well, that may be Sony's goal all along.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 07, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
In fact I think Nintendo should be worried because this might sour the general public on motion control altogether. Motion control has some major kinks in it that even Nintendo can't quite hide. These guys are going to make those flaws out in the open.
Considering that some early impressions of Move say it doesn't work very well, that may be Sony's goal all along.
Sony's not smart enough to come up with a plan like that. They are, however, pretty arrogant, which is why I think they truly believe Move will be a big success.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Morari on September 07, 2010, 08:06:20 PM
I suppose we'll see. I have a hard time imagining anyone buying Move though. The started set (which is only one controller and a crappy Wii Sports knock-off) retails for $100. That's on top of an already ridiculously priced console. The casual players that are supposedly into stuff like Move aren't going to shell out $100 just to get a taste, let alone buy the console if their pimple-faced kid doesn't already have it. :P
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on September 07, 2010, 08:18:44 PM
I suppose we'll see. I have a hard time imagining anyone buying Move though. The started set (which is only one controller and a crappy Wii Sports knock-off) retails for $100. That's on top of an already ridiculously priced console. The casual players that are supposedly into stuff like Move aren't going to shell out $100 just to get a taste, let alone buy the console if their pimple-faced kid doesn't already have it. :P: :
I wouldn't mind buying it for a drastically reduced price just to play RE5 with it, or perhaps Heavy Rain. Dead Space 2 Move support would be nice, too.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 07, 2010, 09:03:13 PM
Wow, I definitely wish I knew about that site and those links that BNM mentioned about 20 minutes ago. I just finished recording a podcast almost all about Move.
Short story? Not so good at launch. Maybe get it later. A lot of the advertised features aren't noticeable or taken advantage of well or at all in launch titles.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Morari on September 07, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
I suppose we'll see. I have a hard time imagining anyone buying Move though. The started set (which is only one controller and a crappy Wii Sports knock-off) retails for $100. That's on top of an already ridiculously priced console. The casual players that are supposedly into stuff like Move aren't going to shell out $100 just to get a taste, let alone buy the console if their pimple-faced kid doesn't already have it. :P: :
I wouldn't mind buying it for a drastically reduced price just to play RE5 with it, or perhaps Heavy Rain. Dead Space 2 Move support would be nice, too.
RE5 and Dead Space would work about as well as RE4: Wii, I suppose. What I've hear of Heavy Rain's implementation has not been very compelling however.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 09, 2010, 10:17:07 PM
2 more KB PS Move commercials http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/09/09/playstation-moving-into-your-home-soon/
It's impossible to watch these and not think "WiiHD!?"
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BeautifulShy on September 09, 2010, 10:23:27 PM
Videos are down.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: King of Twitch on September 09, 2010, 10:27:20 PM
Great tribute videos! I really felt like I was back in 2006.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 09, 2010, 10:28:35 PM
There was a Kevin Butler Move ad during the NFL opener. I hate what Sony's doing with the Move for a lot of reasons, but Kevin Butler is an awesome spokesman for the company and always makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on September 09, 2010, 11:35:23 PM
I'd have to agree, I think that Kevin Butler appeals well to the audience Sony is targeting.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 10, 2010, 04:53:34 AM
There was a Kevin Butler Move ad during the NFL opener. I hate what Sony's doing with the Move for a lot of reasons, but Kevin Butler is an awesome spokesman for the company and always makes me laugh.
You know, he's really just an actor who is paid to say whatever he is told to say. He's not a real person, and I doubt Kevin Butler is even the actor's real name. I think I've seen that same actor do commercials for Geico or something a few years back.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 10, 2010, 04:54:42 AM
Move has a website and it's hosted by Kevin Butler http://www.movemadeabsurdlyeasy.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/# (http://www.movemadeabsurdlyeasy.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/#)
Here they even take a direct shot at Kinect: LOL http://www.yaybuttons.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/ (http://www.yaybuttons.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/)
there is even a page that compares Move to Stuff http://www.movevsstuff.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/ (http://www.movevsstuff.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/)
and it a fair comparison too.... (http://i55.tinypic.com/aome77.png) imagine that :P: : : :
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on September 11, 2010, 03:36:09 AM
Sony: "We do what Nintendo did 5 years ago!"
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 11, 2010, 05:25:49 AM
How does the Wii not fall into the "Controller you can feel and see"? It has force feedback and a physical controller and I can, you know, SEE it. It's not invisible.
I think the way Sony weaseled through that is that if you look at that comparison chart you will notice that the Wii remote is not actually there. You see, its Move versus Kinect Versus the Wii, but not the Wii's controller... just the Wii system. So it was a pretty sneaky move that allows them to say something like that without actually technically lying, because the Wii console really doesn't have force feedback and all that. Of course the Wii's controller does, but that's not what Sony is comparisoning here.
And another really good reason why the Wii controller isn't depicted or even mentioned in that is because it would be very embarrassing to Sony to do so, seeing as how Move is such a blatant ripoff of what Nintendo invented 5 years ago. Why would they want to compare Move to it? So comparing Move to the Wii console (not the controller) was probably the wisest thing to do, from their perspective. Of course, the Wii console does come with its power cord, so it earned a checkmark for that.
Did anyone else notice that in the pictures you see a PS3 with Move and a 360 with Kinect, but the poor Wii is all alone with no wiimote? This wasn't an accident. If Sony were ever sued for fraud this is something they could fall back on to "prove" they weren't really lying.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 11, 2010, 10:46:08 AM
The "feel and see" category is a reference to the fact that the PSEye picks up and displays where the controller is in video form back on screen, probably. Games like Eyepet and the block-stacking puzzler, Tumble, utilize this to an extent.
The Wii-remote, conversely, isn't picked up by a camera, and therefore, can't be directly pictured on screen in it's real, physical location. Thus, you can't see it, by Sony's marketing logic.
Not that I'm arguing it isn't faulty logic, I'm just posing why I think they would say that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 12, 2010, 04:03:39 PM
Playstation Move bundle..... $699.00 $599.99 @ QVC
(http://imgur.com/NXdQi.jpg)
Quote
Includes: PlayStation 3 320GB slim gaming bundle Rachet and Clank Tools of Destruction video game Sports Champion game Surf's Up movie PlayStation Move starter pack with motion controller and eye camera Deluxe vertical stand Warrior pack with a shield and sword Table tennis two pack Archery bow Disc golf/bocce ball/volleyball accessory Four silicone controller skins PlayStation 3 Blu-ray remote System case HDMI cable Console measures approximately 11-1/2"W x 11-1/2"D x 2-3/4"H 1-year Limited Manufacturer's Warranty Made in China
http://twitter.com/PlayStation
Unbelievable deal people, better get yours while supplies last :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BeautifulShy on September 12, 2010, 04:10:26 PM
That shield looks like it has a emblem from The Legend of Zelda.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 12, 2010, 04:16:31 PM
Also note: it only includes one Move controller, and no Subcon, so that's another $80 you need to spend if you want full compatibility.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 12, 2010, 05:37:18 PM
That shield looks like it has a emblem from The Legend of Zelda.
The Legion of Zeldar
c'mon man get it right ;)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 12, 2010, 05:51:29 PM
Most likely these cheap plastic shells were made by the same company or companies that made them for the Wiimotes, so they probably had a ton of molds or leftover materials from the Wii Zelda sword and shield shells so they just carried them over to the Move but didn't bother taking the emblem off.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on September 13, 2010, 01:53:30 PM
On Saturday I was killing time in a store and I go into the electronics section to look at the games and there's Move. It's just there with all the other PS3 stuff. No posters or cardboard cut-outs or "it's here!" type fanfare. It's just there in the store and if you didn't pay attention to this stuff you would never think it was a new product. It might as well have been some PS3 accessory that had been around for years.
How does Sony plan on Move being this big success when its launch is a complete non-event?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 13, 2010, 01:59:25 PM
Maybe they are waiting for its release on Friday. Still, you would think Sony would try harder. They don't seem to be taking PlayStation Move seriously.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on September 13, 2010, 02:07:06 PM
How does Sony plan on Move being this big success when its launch is a complete non-event?
I wonder how long it'll take Sony before they write off Move as yet another "experiment" just like the PSP GO. There are no games worth buying with the thing at launch (c'mon, even the Wii launched with Twilight Princess), there's no real marketing beyond viral marketing, the thing's way too expensive, and if the reviews are any indication few of the games at launch even use the Move well. How can this accessory possibly be a success?
The only good I take from all this is that if the accessory fails hard, it'll probably be dirt cheap to pick it up a few months down the line to play the few games I want to play Move with (RE5, Heavy Rain, and Dead Space 2).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 13, 2010, 04:33:05 PM
On Saturday I was killing time in a store and I go into the electronics section to look at the games and there's Move. It's just there with all the other PS3 stuff. No posters or cardboard cut-outs or "it's here!" type fanfare. It's just there in the store and if you didn't pay attention to this stuff you would never think it was a new product. It might as well have been some PS3 accessory that had been around for years.
How does Sony plan on Move being this big success when its launch is a complete non-event?
I'm sure when it officially launches we will be hearing more about it. We'll probably see some commercials of that obnoxious Kevin Butler being the asshole he usually is. I would almost bet money on him bad mouthing the Wii and claiming it is "kiddie" and how Move is so much "cooler", or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 13, 2010, 04:55:21 PM
This is only slightly related, but the PS3 has experienced "Year-on-year" sales growth, and it's been about a year since Kevin Butler was introduced in an MLB 09: The Show commercial.
While I'm not saying correlation yields causation, I would venture to say that we'll be seeing Kevin Butler for some time now, since a lot of the more vocal fans seem to love him, the commercials seem cheap to produce, as they lack fantastical special effects, and they do get the point across: The PS3 has games people want to play. It's leagues better than a lot of what was there before.
That said, I don't think he should be used to market Move, at least not this initial batch of Move games, at all. It's a mis-match. I've looked at several of them, just for the sake of my podcast, and they don't line up with the desires of "core" gamers, the folks who seem to love Kevin Butler so much. I'd bring him in once they release the Ratchet and Clank multiplayer title, have Socom 4 move controls patched in, or bring out the Resident Evil 5 patch, instead. Seems like that might be a better fit for him than, say, Tumble or Sports Champions.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: vudu on September 13, 2010, 05:02:05 PM
For what it's worth, it's also been about a year since the PS3 slim was released and the price drop to $300 for the low-end unit. I would think that has more of an effect the sales growth than Kevin Butler.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 13, 2010, 05:23:10 PM
Oh, not that I disagree. I'm saying for Sony's marketing department, that little bit of evidence may be all they need. I would attribute the growth mostly to the price drop and Uncharted 2, myself, with a few other games along the way, like ModNation Racers, a game that seems like it would appeal relatively massively.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on September 13, 2010, 05:39:32 PM
So did I end up seeing a store breaking the release date? Was Move not supposed to be on sale yet? What do you guys mean by "official" launch?
Move's biggest obstacle is that is is utterly unappealing to the PS3 target demographic. Everything that core gamers dislike about the Wii is present in the Move. There is no attempt to make anything beyond the same half-baked bullshit the Wii is infamous for, only Nintendo isn't involved so it's like just the third party crap. Both Move and Kinect focus on casual stuff, which just continues the current motion control image of it being a novelty that impresses your mom while "real" games use normal controllers. I think there was a chance to make Move the anti-Wii where it takes advantage of the Wii's casual focused image in the eyes of core gamers. The goal should have been to do motion control the "right way" and demonstrate its full potential. Instead it's like a lame Wii knock-off and who wants that?
Hell, I bought a PS3 because I was tired of the Wii's library being full of this kind of junk.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Sarail on September 13, 2010, 07:12:01 PM
The one thing I do notice about Sony's new advertising campaign is that they ARE pushing Move in the direction of core gamers by showcasing a few games that are directly aimed at that audience. All the while also pushing Move towards the casual crowd, too. The Fight: Lights Out and Time Crisis aren't games I believe your grandma would want to play. :P And that's what I think is great, they're marketing each individual game towards the correct audience.
This is something Nintendo can't really do, because frankly, they don't make games for everyone. They make a game that can be played by everyone. And sometimes, that's just not what a core gamer is looking for. You've got to expand... wait, I'm gonna stop myself right there, or else I'll start ranting. :P
Anyway, I think they're doing an okay job at marketing Move. Just need to start seeing more commercials for it on TV. That'd help a lot.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 14, 2010, 12:37:22 AM
The only ads i've seen even mentioning "core" games is a ad showing different games (hardcore and casual) that support PlayStation Move. The majority of the adds focus on casual games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 14, 2010, 01:24:42 AM
This is only slightly related, but the PS3 has experienced "Year-on-year" sales growth, and it's been about a year since Kevin Butler was introduced in an MLB 09: The Show commercial.
Hasn't it also been about a year since the PS3 dropped in price to $299? I would say that has a lot more to do with its sales growth than some rude jerk named Kevin Butler.
I think its time Reggie paid him a visit and gave him a little attitude adjustment. :reggie:
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BeautifulShy on September 18, 2010, 06:14:40 AM
So apparently Move came out yesterday for a midnight launch.Apparently the midnight launch wasn't spread around as far as it happening and I read on some sites that it was only known about 7 hours or so before the midnight launch.
Did anybody here know about the midnight launch?
Are you planning on getting Move?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 18, 2010, 10:35:11 AM
This is the first mention i've seen of any midnight launch for it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 18, 2010, 12:34:53 PM
I got a press release about it in my email the day it happened. I hadn't heard of it before then, but I was planning on going, just to cover the event and have some information about how it went, how many people, etc.
Then I realized this was a Thursday night/Friday morning, and decided it had a relatively idiotic launch date, and I wouldn't get nearly enough sleep for school the next day.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 18, 2010, 01:25:35 PM
I think I might actually get this.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 18, 2010, 01:34:13 PM
Move is out already?
I gotta admit that I haven't watched a whole lot of TV over the last week or so, but I don't remember seeing an actual commercial for Move on TV. Stealth Launch or have I just been out of the loop?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 18, 2010, 01:39:56 PM
I gotta admit that I haven't watched a whole lot of TV over the last week or so, but I don't remember seeing an actual commercial for Move on TV. Stealth Launch or have I just been out of the loop?
As far as the net goes, I haven't seen much aside from Sony's own websites. In fact, I'd say that the NDAs being lifted around the first of the month made it stealthier, in a sense. Then, there's the whole "Friday Release" thing, which is pretty non-traditional.
Anyway, point is, online, I haven't seen that many commercials. I haven't watched much TV, either though, but I've seen nothing on Saturdays, during college football, at least.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 18, 2010, 01:49:50 PM
I saw a few PlayStation Move commercials yesterday. They all focused on casual games like EyePet though.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 19, 2010, 01:50:29 AM
One day I may buy a PS3, but I doubt I will ever get Move (unless it happened to be bundled with the system at not extra cost or something, which may happen one day).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on September 19, 2010, 03:25:26 AM
yeah, because additional hardware has always been successful.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 19, 2010, 02:02:46 PM
I've seen another PSM commercial this weekend, Sony paid Warner Bros. Interactive to focus on the PlayStation 3 version of The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest (which supports PSM). It still seems like they could be doing more to support it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on September 19, 2010, 07:06:25 PM
I've seen another PSM commercial this weekend, Sony paid Warner Bros. Interactive to focus on the PlayStation 3 version of The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest (which supports PSM). It still seems like they could be doing more to support it.
Let's face reality, are the same people who denonuce the Wii so many times over going to really buy an obvious knock off?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 20, 2010, 09:59:54 AM
Yes. From what I've read, everyone who's bought a Move everywhere have loved it. Every single one.
My guess is they've never played Wii Sports Resort or used a video camera. It's very possible, even if somewhat sad.
Edit: Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it's basically the whole Hi-def TV syndrome: Regardless of the actual quality of the HD TV you own, studies show that for at least those who are proficiently educated in HD TV differences rate their own TV higher than they'd rate some better quality screens. It's kind of like the whole placebo effect, but people tend to be optimistic when it comes to their own decisions, even if they don't make sense through standard logic and reason.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on September 20, 2010, 10:25:46 AM
Let's face reality, are the same people who denonuce the Wii so many times over going to really buy an obvious knock off?
It depends on why they "denounced the Wii so many times." If it was because technologically the Wii Remote was a P.o.S. whose motion controls only kind of worked until the MotionPlus released, I don't see why they wouldn't get the Move. If it was because of the type or style of games available on the Wii (specifically casual Shovelware, then the Move is just as bad (and, at the moment, probably worse). If it was because they hate Motion gaming in general, obviously the Move isn't any different.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 20, 2010, 10:39:27 AM
Let's face reality, are the same people who denonuce the Wii so many times over going to really buy an obvious knock off?
It depends on why they "denounced the Wii so many times." If it was because technologically the Wii Remote was a P.o.S. whose motion controls only kind of worked until the MotionPlus released, I don't see why they wouldn't get the Move. If it was because of the type or style of games available on the Wii (specifically casual Shovelware, then the Move is just as bad (and, at the moment, probably worse). If it was because they hate Motion gaming in general, obviously the Move isn't any different.
Software examples for the Move, so far, demonstrate the Move only kind of works. In fact, since there's not such great pointing functionality, any game that utilizes a directional aiming mechanic really doesn't work all that swell right now. To be fair, I haven't played or talked to anyone who's played RUSE, which is probably the title most people will wind up talking about in relation to the Move, so I need to check out that before I render too many more opinions.
Watch Move in action, though. The device currently operates only marginally better than the initial Wii Remote in most cases. The main title where it doesn't is Tumble, which is probably the one title I'd recommend based on my research. In some cases, the Wii Remote actually functions better than move, since pointing direction is more accurately picked up via the Wii Remote's sensor bar and built-in camera compared to Move's camera, which doesn't seem to utilize a second point of reference for direction nearly as well.
So all-in-all, I still think the flaws with Move match up with the flaws of the basic Wii Remote pretty evenly, with pluses and minuses on both sides. The Wii Remote with the Motion Plus still beats Move hands down so far, even if it's rarely utilized, except in the EyeToy styled games, which have been around for half a decade.
Figures, as soon as I mention RUSE, I find out I can get a review copy. Too bad Sony won't send a review Move, too. -_-
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 20, 2010, 12:50:37 PM
All of the reviews for PSM games that I have seen tend to basically say "it's a decent/good game, but quickly loses its appeal". For example, reviwes for EyePet mention that it's length is incredibly short and that the activites quickly become tedious. The controls don't seem to be as accurate as the Wii Remote either.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on September 20, 2010, 12:59:09 PM
Software examples for the Move, so far, demonstrate the Move only kind of works. In fact, since there's not such great pointing functionality, any game that utilizes a directional aiming mechanic really doesn't work all that swell right now. To be fair, I haven't played or talked to anyone who's played RUSE, which is probably the title most people will wind up talking about in relation to the Move, so I need to check out that before I render too many more opinions.
Yeah, I've heard bad things about the control in the launch games, though I've heard the Move controls in RE5 Gold Edition work just fine. IGN's only problem with it was using the Move button to shoot instead of the trigger.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on September 20, 2010, 01:27:55 PM
So I actually saw a Move ad last night while watching football. My brother was watching with me and he doesn't really follow games so he doesn't really know anything about Move, just that Sony and MS are attempting motion control and that it be released at some point. The second the ad started to show footage of the family playing he immediately says "Gee, what does this remind you of?"
He's not a cynical hardcore gamer who frequents forums. He's just an average consumer and he immediately thought that Move looked like a Wii rip-off right down to the fact that that sports game looks like a Wii Sports knock-off. Does Sony not expect the rest of the world to notice the same thing? How do they expect this to be a big deal when it looks like the same thing the Wii was doing YEARS ago?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on September 20, 2010, 02:14:10 PM
Software examples for the Move, so far, demonstrate the Move only kind of works. In fact, since there's not such great pointing functionality, any game that utilizes a directional aiming mechanic really doesn't work all that swell right now. To be fair, I haven't played or talked to anyone who's played RUSE, which is probably the title most people will wind up talking about in relation to the Move, so I need to check out that before I render too many more opinions.
Yeah, I've heard bad things about the control in the launch games, though I've heard the Move controls in RE5 Gold Edition work just fine. IGN's only problem with it was using the Move button to shoot instead of the trigger.
I haven't seen much about Resident Evil 5's performance, either. I'll put that on my list to check out.
With other titles, namely Time Crisis: Razing Storm and whatever version of Socom that was already released but is planned to have Move controls patched in, we had trouble and are a bit more skeptical of the Move as a potential 'core' gaming device. Why?
Well, in Time Crisis, the thing lost calibration FAST. Two minutes, at the most, was how long I played before I faced some difficulty manipulating the reticule on screen. In Socom, the problem, from what I understand, wasn't as bad, but there were callibration issues and lag issues inherent with it, as well.
I'm very hesitant, though, because of Move's design. The bulb is a spherical thing. The camera, alone can't tell the direction of the bulb because of that design. While it can easily detect positioning of the Move controller, the direction seems to be based on whatever gyroscopes are inside the Move. For a third-person game, like Resident Evil 5, this shouldn't create much of a problem. For a first-person shooter, however, like the two games I mentioned above, it probably won't work well. While this isn't fact and is just my speculation, I'd consider this a possible inherent design flaw, so long as my understanding of how the controller works is true.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 20, 2010, 03:19:08 PM
Tumble is pretty awesome. It gets a little boring, but for 10 bucks its absolutely worth it. I'd say over all though, the Move really isn't all that different than Wii Motion Plus. I've played several hours of it now, many in Sports Champions and in Tumble if you have an questions.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on September 20, 2010, 08:22:52 PM
I can't shake the feeling that Sony spent an extra 4 years figuring out how to do something Nintendo did last year, except less convenient and more expensive.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Halbred on September 20, 2010, 08:35:26 PM
I wonder how the Move sold on opening weekend. There was a funny picture on Kotaku of a Gamestop midnight launch with one person in line.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: DAaaMan64 on September 21, 2010, 04:05:41 AM
Sports Champions has a decent amount of 1-player depth that isn't there in Wii Sports Resort, kinda nice in its case. Sure its all in tournaments but at least its there. Gladiator Duel is definitely deeper and better than Wii Sports sword play.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on September 21, 2010, 11:33:24 AM
Playstation Move bundle..... $699.00 $599.99 @ QVC
(http://imgur.com/NXdQi.jpg)
Quote
Includes: PlayStation 3 320GB slim gaming bundle Rachet and Clank Tools of Destruction video game Sports Champion game Surf's Up movie PlayStation Move starter pack with motion controller and eye camera Deluxe vertical stand Warrior pack with a shield and sword Table tennis two pack Archery bow Disc golf/bocce ball/volleyball accessory Four silicone controller skins PlayStation 3 Blu-ray remote System case HDMI cable Console measures approximately 11-1/2"W x 11-1/2"D x 2-3/4"H 1-year Limited Manufacturer's Warranty Made in China
http://twitter.com/PlayStation
Unbelievable deal people, better get yours while supplies last :rolleyes:
Note how it has each move shell in pairs and FOUR dualshock shells but includes only one move controller and one dualshock.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 14, 2010, 06:05:12 PM
Move makes its mark in Europe http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-14/sony-sees-strong-europe-christmas-sales-says-ps3-may-beat-its-targets.html
Quote
Sony Corp., the maker of the PlayStation 3, sees “very, very strong” Christmas holiday sales for its video-game consoles in Europe, said Andrew House, head of Sony Computer Entertainment in the region.
The company expects to exceed its target of sales of 15 million PS3s in its fiscal year, aided by “strong demand” in Europe and North America, House said in a Bloomberg Television interview in Rome.
“Sales have been significantly up year-on-year in a market that has been overall slightly down,” he said. ... Move has had “very significant sales in the first month since launch, somewhere in the region of 1.5 million units for the new controller across just Europe,” House said. “The initial sales response has been so far in excess of our initial plan that we’ll probably be looking at accelerating production.”
there some bits about GT5 in that link too if you're interested.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 15, 2010, 12:39:38 AM
What does Nintendo have to counter this and get consumer's attention this holiday season? It seems to me that Nintendo has been resting on the laurels of its existing game library for too long. It worked well for them in previous years because the competition was pretty weak, but this year Sony's picked up a lot of steam.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on October 16, 2010, 03:20:35 AM
DKCR
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Peachylala on October 18, 2010, 02:48:47 PM
I was going to say that, Goldeneye and the Wii Remote Plus.
Quote
It worked well for them in previous years because the competition was pretty weak, but this year Sony's picked up a lot of steam.
Steam can burn you if hot enough.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 18, 2010, 03:06:31 PM
I dont see no reason why sony had to go nintendo's way, i mean come on they have millions to spend on research for new products and they went the easy route, well thats too bad, because am pretty sure even with the success nintendo has had with motion controls, the market is a bit saturated, so am betting nintendo wont even market motion controls on their next console cause motions has become old fad.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 18, 2010, 06:53:48 PM
I dont see no reason why sony had to go nintendo's way, i mean come on they have millions to spend on research for new products and they went the easy route, well thats too bad, because am pretty sure even with the success nintendo has had with motion controls, the market is a bit saturated, so am betting nintendo wont even market motion controls on their next console cause motions has become old fad.
:confused; Sony's Move isn't really that new. They've been doing Eyetoy demos based on motion tracking of different colors for years now. they just took that concept and added it to the wiimote because the wiimote was a proven product that makes sense. You need buttons and something to hold, and Kinect is likely to reinforce that idea very shortly.
Besides, Sony did exactly what we all knew they would do, and that is copy what Nintendo did but turn it up to 11 or multiply it times 2.
I would have preferred they just do what we all know they intended to do (http://i35.tinypic.com/eqw31l.jpg)
It's not quite that but almost. Probably as close as they could get without violating any patents.
that post if from over a year ago and the pic is from atleast a year(or 2) before that.
Sony's choice was to either buy into the Kinect tech (before MS bought it) which was already very similar to Eyetoy R&D, or find a way to piggy back on Nintendo's success by using Eyetoy R&D and incorporating the Wiimote. I personally think they made the right choice because now they can do what the Wii and MS Kinect can do at the same time. They could have made the wand look a little less like a sex toy, but I think they technically have the best middleground device they could have without stepping on any patents. It may not pointer track as smooth as the Wii or full body detect as "good" as Kinect, but it can do both, and that's what likely make it the superior piece of tech at the moment.
p.s. Did you know that if you google image search Sonymote (http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1C1DVCP_enUS383US383&q=sonymote&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=BM68TI7aPM-fOqGTmPQD&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CCYQsAQwAQ&biw=1428&bih=924), my 1st 2 post in this thread pop up 3 times in the 1st row :D
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 19, 2010, 04:31:14 PM
nice signature!!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 21, 2010, 05:15:03 PM
Sony ships 1 Million Move units in NA http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1129631p1.html
N.A. + EUR = 2.5million units shipped so far.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Caliban on October 21, 2010, 08:17:05 PM
Now let's see how that translates into software sales.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 21, 2010, 09:26:08 PM
TBH, I'm still waiting to see how that translates into hardware sales.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 21, 2010, 10:54:19 PM
TBH, I'm still waiting to see how that translates into hardware sales.
am sure you r gonna see alot of exaggerated numbers through out the holydays season, like shipped units instead of purchased ones.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Kytim89 on October 21, 2010, 11:15:05 PM
I spoke to a guy at Gamestop and he said that the Move controller is selling off he shelves and that the quality is way better than the motion controls found on the Wii. If this is the case, I hope to see what Nintendo has in store for the Wii 2.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on October 21, 2010, 11:26:56 PM
I spoke to a guy at Gamestop and he said that the Move controller is selling off he shelves and that the quality is way better than the motion controls found on the Wii. If this is the case, I hope to see what Nintendo has in store for the Wii 2.
Maybe Nintendo will make it where the Move can work on the Wii, since they've been so outdone. I don't see why not.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 22, 2010, 01:37:34 AM
I spoke to a guy at Gamestop and he said that the Move controller is selling off he shelves and that the quality is way better than the motion controls found on the Wii. If this is the case, I hope to see what Nintendo has in store for the Wii 2.
I hope that whatever nintendo has up their sleeves have nothing to do with motion controls, cause with the recent imitations from microsoft and sonys take on motion controls have become played out. But am sure nintendo has it all figured out cause now they know that they are not the only ones.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 22, 2010, 01:45:18 AM
I spoke to a guy at Gamestop and he said that the Move controller is selling off he shelves and that the quality is way better than the motion controls found on the Wii. If this is the case, I hope to see what Nintendo has in store for the Wii 2.
I bet he was basing his "better than" on the original Wii controller, and not the one with M+ which is a huge improvement.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 22, 2010, 01:51:28 AM
^for sure, people at gamestop dont even try to sell the accessory, i dont blame them, but now they got their work cut off short since now nintendo is doing what they should have done since the beginning the normal wiimote with motion plus included.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ymeegod on October 22, 2010, 02:13:10 AM
"wiimote with motion plus included." Kinda pointless if the software doesn't support M+. Nintendo has to make games that actually uses it. It's been out for awhile now and I bet there isn't even a dozen titles yet and out of those there's only two that I wanted to play--Sports and Red Steel.
I kept wanting for EA Bloom Box M+ edition but sadly it's never going to happen. And it's not just Nintendo's lagging behind in the software front neither, both MS and Sony's lineup falls to impress. Need more traditional games vrs all this party crap.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 22, 2010, 03:20:32 AM
"wiimote with motion plus included." Kinda pointless if the software doesn't support M+. Nintendo has to make games that actually uses it. It's been out for awhile now and I bet there isn't even a dozen titles yet and out of those there's only two that I wanted to play--Sports and Red Steel.
I kept wanting for EA Bloom Box M+ edition but sadly it's never going to happen. And it's not just Nintendo's lagging behind in the software front neither, both MS and Sony's lineup falls to impress. Need more traditional games vrs all this party crap.
Well at least one we know its coming from Nintendo... Legend of Zelda Skyward Swords!!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 22, 2010, 03:45:51 AM
Any Zelda game is worth as much as a dozen generic forgettable titles, and Skyward Swords will support M+. That's basically the equivalent of having Chuck Norris in your corner.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 22, 2010, 04:43:22 PM
this is what i was talking about, http://www.pcworld.com/article/208558/is_that_25_million_playstation_moves_shipped_or_sold.html?tk=hp_new (http://www.pcworld.com/article/208558/is_that_25_million_playstation_moves_shipped_or_sold.html?tk=hp_new)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 22, 2010, 05:18:13 PM
this is what i was talking about, http://www.pcworld.com/article/208558/is_that_25_million_playstation_moves_shipped_or_sold.html?tk=hp_new (http://www.pcworld.com/article/208558/is_that_25_million_playstation_moves_shipped_or_sold.html?tk=hp_new)
But I said that it was shipped in the post I made about this already.
this is what i was talking about, http://www.pcworld.com/article/208558/is_that_25_million_playstation_moves_shipped_or_sold.html?tk=hp_new (http://www.pcworld.com/article/208558/is_that_25_million_playstation_moves_shipped_or_sold.html?tk=hp_new)
But I said that it was shipped in the post I made about this already.
Sony ships 1 Million Move units in NA http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1129631p1.html (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1129631p1.html)
N.A. + EUR = 2.5million units shipped so far.
and for future reference, Sony always reports "Shipped" numbers in their PR statements.
I just wanted out there cause i had made a comment earlier about this, and today i went to pc world and saw and article about it, i though it what curious, thats why i posted the link.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Shorty McNostril on October 22, 2010, 09:56:16 PM
I have seen absolutely no fanfare for this at all around here. If I didn't frequent forums I wouldn't even know that this thing exists.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 22, 2010, 10:05:17 PM
I seen some commercials with that obnoxious Kevin Butler who moved into some family's home against their consent and he was dressed up as a Viking and eating children. He said "some people think motion gaming is just for little kids" and he laughed. All I could do in response was a facepalm.
I knew it would happen. I just KNEW IT. The jerk just had to imply the Wii is "kiddie" and that his waggle dingaling is more suited for the big boys. I hope no one who viewed that commercial bought into that rubbish.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Shorty McNostril on October 22, 2010, 10:14:51 PM
I seen some commercials with that obnoxious Kevin Butler who moved into some family's home against their consent and he was dressed up as a Viking and eating children. He said "some people think motion gaming is just for little kids" and he laughed.
Tell that to all the grannies that have one.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 23, 2010, 09:58:33 AM
I think Nintendo is trying to push Motion plus as the new standard...and it is kinda hard. Nintendo wants to make sure every Wii user has it first.
Personally, I think the next system should still be motion based, as I believe motion based is STILL the future of games. But, I think the Wii controller has taught Nintendo a lot about motion controls.
I see the next Nintendo system basically being like the Super Wii. Think Super Nintendo but with motion controls. I think Nintendo will perfect the controller.
I am thinking a new kind of sensor bar that uses more than one detection sensor, perhaps another gyroscope to make a more accurate Wii Motion + + and finally, a better more functioning Nunchuk with analog better buttons, and motion capabilities closer to the original Wiimote.
All of this with a nice HD system would be nice...and Nintendo could launch it with Wii Sports 2 that features more full featured games and new Zelda with amazing motion control that takes what Skyward Sword is doing and blows it away.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 23, 2010, 11:06:45 AM
I'm hoping Nintendo does what Sony should have with the Move, and that is make the nunchuck into another wiimote.
Sony should have put a lollipop on the end of the nunchcuk too so that both hands are being tracked by the Eyetoy.
So I'm hoping Nintendo not only includes a motion tracking camera with the Wii2, but puts some sort of LED around the top edges of the Wiimote/Nunchuck 2.0 so that both can be tracked by the camera and both would have an equal amount of motion sensors for extreme accuracy whether they are in view of the camera or not.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Kytim89 on October 23, 2010, 12:37:36 PM
I am curious to see how Nintendo reacts to what ever success the Move and Kinect systems have this year. I ask this because I am getting very anxious to see the Wii 2 now that the 3DS has been revealed.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: MaryJane on October 23, 2010, 01:10:12 PM
All three systems have reached their plateaus and sales are pretty much in neutral. With Sony and MS offering motion add-ons, Nintendo HAS to give us something new. The question is, are they going to be content with the 3DS, or are they going to preview the Wii2 at E3 2011?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 23, 2010, 04:08:05 PM
I seen some commercials with that obnoxious Kevin Butler who moved into some family's home against their consent and he was dressed up as a Viking and eating children. He said "some people think motion gaming is just for little kids" and he laughed. All I could do in response was a facepalm.
I knew it would happen. I just KNEW IT. The jerk just had to imply the Wii is "kiddie" and that his waggle dingaling is more suited for the big boys. I hope no one who viewed that commercial bought into that rubbish.
Personally i think the guy is an idiot, but it goes well with sony's double standard.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Kytim89 on October 23, 2010, 05:43:07 PM
All three systems have reached their plateaus and sales are pretty much in neutral. With Sony and MS offering motion add-ons, Nintendo HAS to give us something new. The question is, are they going to be content with the 3DS, or are they going to preview the Wii2 at E3 2011?
I am almost one-hundred percent certain that we will get a Wii 2 reveal at E3 2011 and a early 2012 release for Japan and a late 2012 for the US and Europe.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on October 23, 2010, 10:12:23 PM
I gave Move a try over at Armageddon in NZ, a annual pop expo here. It was for Time Crisis and wow, the internet had failed to prepare me for this.
There is a real crisis going on alright, and it's Move. I doesn't fucking work. I don't give a flying **** that it's a preview demo, no excuses. The pointer function simply doesn't work. Calibrate all I want, it loses it in single digit seconds.
Navigating the menu is a nightmare in itself. The Wiimote provides a D-pad for such purposes should you not want to use it's fully functional pointer abilities. Move was unintuitive, requiring you to point down and use the trigger in an inaccurate and slow fashion to select menu items since the F-ing pointer doesn't work and can't be used for the menu anyway. About 75% of the time, it wouldn't respond, so god knows how the game actually plays.
I just bet if I play this game exactly like a light gun game, Move would throw a complete **** fit, given how fast you can move in those games.
There is a reason why Nintendo did what they did and now I truly understand. Sony should have just ripped off Nintendo wholesale just like they have done in the past. Sure they would be called rip-offs, but ****, it would work.
I will give some of the other games a try tomorrow, but I will prepare myself for the worse.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on October 23, 2010, 11:15:55 PM
I gave Move a try over at Armageddon in NZ, a annual pop expo here. It was for Time Crisis and wow, the internet had failed to prepare me for this.
There is a real crisis going on alright, and it's Move. I doesn't fucking work. I don't give a flying **** that it's a preview demo, no excuses. The pointer function simply doesn't work. Calibrate all I want, it loses it in single digit seconds.
Navigating the menu is a nightmare in itself. The Wiimote provides a D-pad for such purposes should you not want to use it's fully functional pointer abilities. Move was unintuitive, requiring you to point down and use the trigger in an inaccurate and slow fashion to select menu items since the F-ing pointer doesn't work and can't be used for the menu anyway. About 75% of the time, it wouldn't respond, so god knows how the game actually plays.
I just bet if I play this game exactly like a light gun game, Move would throw a complete **** fit, given how fast you can move in those games.
There is a reason why Nintendo did what they did and now I truly understand. Sony should have just ripped off Nintendo wholesale just like they have done in the past. Sure they would be called rip-offs, but ****, it would work.
I will give some of the other games a try tomorrow, but I will prepare myself for the worse.
Yes! Validation of the pointer problems I had and talked about around E3!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on October 24, 2010, 01:09:28 AM
I gave Move a try over at Armageddon in NZ, a annual pop expo here. It was for Time Crisis and wow, the internet had failed to prepare me for this.
There is a real crisis going on alright, and it's Move. I doesn't fucking work. I don't give a flying **** that it's a preview demo, no excuses. The pointer function simply doesn't work. Calibrate all I want, it loses it in single digit seconds.
Navigating the menu is a nightmare in itself. The Wiimote provides a D-pad for such purposes should you not want to use it's fully functional pointer abilities. Move was unintuitive, requiring you to point down and use the trigger in an inaccurate and slow fashion to select menu items since the F-ing pointer doesn't work and can't be used for the menu anyway. About 75% of the time, it wouldn't respond, so god knows how the game actually plays.
I just bet if I play this game exactly like a light gun game, Move would throw a complete **** fit, given how fast you can move in those games.
There is a reason why Nintendo did what they did and now I truly understand. Sony should have just ripped off Nintendo wholesale just like they have done in the past. Sure they would be called rip-offs, but ****, it would work.
I will give some of the other games a try tomorrow, but I will prepare myself for the worse.
Hmm...I wonder if there was something wrong with the unit you used. I haven't heard similar issues from sites I trust like Giant Bomb or whatnot. I have heard that the unit has severe trouble dealing with certain lighting. Maybe the lighting there was incompatible?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on October 24, 2010, 02:10:58 AM
Given the way the Move works it's no surprise that pointing doesn't work. Since the thing the camera tracks is the glowing ball it cannot determine rotation and when a human points at something rotation is the main action. That means it has to rely on the gyroscope and lacks a way to re-calibrate it automatically. I've been playing Zangeki no Reginleiv on the Wii and that uses the motion plus as a fallback for pointing (because you'll be moving the remote so much it'll often lose track of the sensor bar), there's a noticeable drift in the aim from rapid movement until the remote finds the sensor bar again and recalibrates. The camera in the Wiimote means it's easier to track where you are pointing as opposed to where you are holding it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on October 24, 2010, 02:32:26 AM
There are no excuses for this. The lighting was well away and above. Another unit playing another game using the pointer right next to the unit I was playing appeared ok, although the game itself seemed questionable. It looked like they were playing Lethal Enforcers, but with cowboys. It looked that bad.
I calibrated, made sure that I was still pointed in the right direction, exited the menu. Had to reload, shot off screen, ok, didn't work, so shook the gun. Starts screaming to calibrate again. This is inside of ten seconds from the last calibration. Tired of using the menu for the third time I gave up. The first 2 times I didn't make it out of the menu before it bitched at me again. 2 meters away from the camera.
Given that even the menu doesn't function in a reasonable fashion, Bullshit is in the air.
Seriously, fucking Namco, what stopped you bring Time Crisis to Wii? Easy money. Near free money.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Shorty McNostril on October 24, 2010, 04:38:18 AM
I gave Move a try over at Armageddon in NZ, a annual pop expo here. It was for Time Crisis and wow, the internet had failed to prepare me for this.
There is a real crisis going on alright, and it's Move. I doesn't fucking work. I don't give a flying **** that it's a preview demo, no excuses. The pointer function simply doesn't work. Calibrate all I want, it loses it in single digit seconds.
Navigating the menu is a nightmare in itself. The Wiimote provides a D-pad for such purposes should you not want to use it's fully functional pointer abilities. Move was unintuitive, requiring you to point down and use the trigger in an inaccurate and slow fashion to select menu items since the F-ing pointer doesn't work and can't be used for the menu anyway. About 75% of the time, it wouldn't respond, so god knows how the game actually plays.
I just bet if I play this game exactly like a light gun game, Move would throw a complete **** fit, given how fast you can move in those games.
There is a reason why Nintendo did what they did and now I truly understand. Sony should have just ripped off Nintendo wholesale just like they have done in the past. Sure they would be called rip-offs, but ****, it would work.
I will give some of the other games a try tomorrow, but I will prepare myself for the worse.
Amen.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: DAaaMan64 on October 24, 2010, 02:50:14 PM
My house has a Move, the pointer controls are fine but just a bit delayed. Don't navigate the Playstation Menu with the controller its to hard, but it is pointerless. Sports Champions is their casual title, and something I like a lot better about it is that each sport has a lot more depth then it's Wii equivalent.
As far as quality of motion controls, I'd say its as good as WM+ but not much if any better.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 24, 2010, 03:32:24 PM
^of course dude, its just sony being stupid saying that move is better then wii, yeah the original wiimote without motion plus which is four years old, i enjoy my ps3, but come on move is clearly a rip off, shameless sony.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 24, 2010, 05:07:02 PM
The Playstation brand has been a ripoff since day one. The PS controller was originally a ripoff of the SNES controller, but with magical shapes instead of letters. Then the N64 came out and revolutionized everything and Sony ripped off the N64's analog stick idea and tacked that onto its already ripped off controller to create the super ripoff that we all know and love.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on October 24, 2010, 05:23:48 PM
My house has a Move, the pointer controls are fine but just a bit delayed. Don't navigate the Playstation Menu with the controller its to hard, but it is pointerless. Sports Champions is their casual title, and something I like a lot better about it is that each sport has a lot more depth then it's Wii equivalent.
As far as quality of motion controls, I'd say its as good as WM+ but not much if any better.
I didn't have a choice other than to use Move to navigate the menu. I am giving this another shot today. I will be back with a longer trip report.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on October 24, 2010, 05:31:43 PM
My house has a Move, the pointer controls are fine but just a bit delayed. Don't navigate the Playstation Menu with the controller its to hard, but it is pointerless. Sports Champions is their casual title, and something I like a lot better about it is that each sport has a lot more depth then it's Wii equivalent.
As far as quality of motion controls, I'd say its as good as WM+ but not much if any better.
Do they really have more depth, though? I mean, does Disc Golf have anything more to offer than what's on Wii Sports Resort? While the gladiator mode has a shield, does it have the parrying ability that the WSR mode offers, to give patient players an advantage? Even though there's more and varying archery targets in archery, does it match the tactile feel and true, not cheap, difficulty of the WSR version? Does Table Tennis even work on the Move? I suppose I can't criticize everyone's favorite game: Bocce Ball. You got me there. Of course, WSR has golf. And bowling. A competitive Disc Golf mode with targets and such. Also, basketball and more. They might appear shallow, but they have a certain depth to them that I didn't experience or observe whenever I've dealt with Sports Champion's offerings.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on October 25, 2010, 03:12:52 AM
Now back with an extended trip report.
Went back to Time Crisis first. Having played TC4, I have something to compare to and it does not compare, at all. The real thing is superior to the point of making move obsolete. There is a very good reason why the gun shell has no sights and is as thick as a baseball bat. Line of sight shooting to broken, forget it, it DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. So you have to use the pointer and this sucker shakes more than Heroin addict in withdraw.
Using the cover/reload system is awkward. Since it isn't assigned to a dipping motion like another game which I will get to, you have to hit X. It means you have to hold the gun in an unnatural fashion, not that it matters anymore. Given that it bitches about calibration if you look at it funny, let alone snap shooting, the decision to use the X to cover/reload is putting a band aid on a head wound.
**** like this will KILL the light gun genre for good. Way to go Namco.
The game next to it is called Shoot. It is based on you staring in an action movie basically by shooting animation wooden cutouts. It gives new meaning to expendable henchmen and wooden acting. Once again, no line of sight shooting. The sight will happily wander around so any attempt to calibrate is an exercise in insanity. There appears to be some pointer smoothing going on, so the cursor isn't spastic like TC. Not that it makes it better since it just makes it a "Pointer" game, not a light gun game. The game is a lot more forgiving than TC , taking into account that it isn't a hardcore game and that the controls are just not good enough. There also isn't any reloading and there is a a rudimentary cover systemthat is functional if not as slow as everything else.
During the second stage there is some really pointless waggle work to move the game along. The difficulty goes up a fair bit during this second and last stage of the demo. The controller just isn't up to it. There is also some non-pointer action where you lean left or right to dodge bullets during a quick draw shootout, and as effective as trying to dodge real bullets after the fact.
These two games had the shortest lines for a bloody good reason, these are **** games. Shoot! is better than TC:RS, but it's a choice between choosing between a **** sandwich and piss shake. You can only win if you do not play.
The last "Pointer" game I played was SOCOM. I will say "Pointer" again as this game isn't really a "Pointer" game. It turns the Move into a giant analogue stick with a big dead zone. The buttons aren't as well placed as the Wii equivalent, so performing actions is slow and painful.
SOCOM itself has some strange gameplay design decisions. The character will happily fire into the very cover he is behind even if you have line of sight. When hiding behind cover, you can't pop out and just aim, to pop out, you have to shoot. This is a real issue as half the time the cursor disappears while behind cover, so you blow half the clip just to see where your shooting at. Zooming is a little weird where holding one button is to focus slightly, then to pull up the sight you have to hold that and the nade button.
I never thought I see that day where I would say that dual analogue is superior control method for a first/third person shooter.
To sum up the pointer portion of this trip, I have this to say. "THIS **** DOESN'T WORK".
We now move on to the Move portion of this trip proper.
I tried out Fight! It felt about the same as WiiBoxing. For the life of me, I couldn't get a jab or a gut shot in. The boxer would refuse to do them, resulting in him twitching his arm a little. It was like watch the David Tua VS Hollyfield fight. Some of the saddest display of boxing ever to be seen internationally. I finally got tired of trying to finesse the game, so I started to basically do swimming strokes. It resulted in an amazingly brutal and quick beat down of my opponent it was K.O before I could try anything else.
Yes, I effectively gave my computer opponent a concussion by windmilling him. Pitiful.
Lastly I played that gladiator game some of you have mentioned here. I didn't have a partner to play with me, so I had to play the attendant. Given the amount of extra time she had to play the game, the skill difference was pretty clear. I got some good hits in, but I was quickly dispatched. I had very little time to figure out whether move works, but if I was to base it on it his game, I would have to reserve my judgement, I just didn't have enough time to figure things out.
The one thing that didn't work at all was the jump attacks. I am not that tall, but every time I tried to execute one, nothing would happen.
However there was one thing I was surprised by, was that it measured the force of an attack pretty well. Soon a well placed, forceful attack did a lot of damage, compared to other players I saw who waggled and get hits worth 15 points compared to my 200+ points of damage.
Before I left for good, I noticed a kids game that had you paint inside the line. This was the only thing that worked 100% of the time. Considering it was a glorified eye toy game, I am not surprised.
Given how terrible Sony's gear is compared to Nintendo's, I can only imagine how horrifying Microsoft's controller-less efforts are. If the future of gaming on consoles are with Sony, I am out, done with console gaming for good. May heavens luck continue to bless the Nintendo handhelds and long live the Nintendo Handhelds.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on October 25, 2010, 03:32:45 AM
I'll be interested to see if places like GameStop/etc. ever get actual Move demo kiosks, because I'd like to try the technology myself before putting in the investment. When I finally go to do my Platinum run on Resident Evil 5 (during which I have to replay pretty much the entire game several times), I'd really like to do it with Resident Evil 4 Wii-type controls. And hey, maybe EA/Volition will see the sense in having Move controls for Dead Space 2. That said, the monetary investment is pretty obscene for just the former and the possibility of the later. What I saw of The Shoot on Giant Bomb looked kind of cool, and even Sports Champion looked like it could be fun (though the fact that you have to have 2 Move controllers to get the intended experience out of some of the more fun games like Archery is pitiful). The game's extremely overpriced at $40, though.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: that Baby guy on October 25, 2010, 03:44:33 AM
On a Saturday in the middle of October, GameStop had a "Move Day" or something like that. I'd imagine most stores probably have something set up from that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on October 25, 2010, 03:51:31 AM
You know, there's something else that's been bugging me about Move for a while now: considering its calibration process, is it possible to play Move games lying down? Due to it being an SD console, I have my Wii hooked up in my living room on my 40-in. SD TV. My PS3, however, is here in my bedroom hooked-up to my 25-in. LCD HD TV, so I often just play my games lying in bed with controller in hand and it works just fine. With Move always needing to see that damn ball, though, could I even use the Move in that setting? :-\ For all its problems, I could still play most Wii games like that, with probably the exception of the Wii Sports games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on October 25, 2010, 05:21:23 AM
I'll be interested to see if places like GameStop/etc. ever get actual Move demo kiosks, because I'd like to try the technology myself before putting in the investment. When I finally go to do my Platinum run on Resident Evil 5 (during which I have to replay pretty much the entire game several times), I'd really like to do it with Resident Evil 4 Wii-type controls.
You will not see RE4 Wii-type controls on RE5. Move doesn't work like that and cannot ever work like that. The "Pointer" controls are nowhere as responsive, as accurate, as usable as anything on the Wii.
What Move is, in regard to it's pointer controls, is in essence, a free floating analogue stick with no fixed point of reference. It works about as well as you think it does. No matter how much maths and processing power they throw in to this, it will never work. There are too many unaccounted for variables on too limited hardware meant to do something else. It all only one step away from kids playing wargames and going BANG BANG, your dead. NATAL is trying to do just that. There is a paintball game trying to do that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: DAaaMan64 on October 25, 2010, 05:42:34 AM
My house has a Move, the pointer controls are fine but just a bit delayed. Don't navigate the Playstation Menu with the controller its to hard, but it is pointerless. Sports Champions is their casual title, and something I like a lot better about it is that each sport has a lot more depth then it's Wii equivalent.
As far as quality of motion controls, I'd say its as good as WM+ but not much if any better.
Do they really have more depth, though? I mean, does Disc Golf have anything more to offer than what's on Wii Sports Resort? While the gladiator mode has a shield, does it have the parrying ability that the WSR mode offers, to give patient players an advantage? Even though there's more and varying archery targets in archery, does it match the tactile feel and true, not cheap, difficulty of the WSR version? Does Table Tennis even work on the Move? I suppose I can't criticize everyone's favorite game: Bocce Ball. You got me there. Of course, WSR has golf. And bowling. A competitive Disc Golf mode with targets and such. Also, basketball and more. They might appear shallow, but they have a certain depth to them that I didn't experience or observe whenever I've dealt with Sports Champion's offerings.
Gladiator offers a shield, different fighting styles from AI, actual tactics, a powered-up attack, a usable versus mode, jump attacks, ring outs, rolling get ups, and other additional moves.
I know WSR offers tons of sports, but I would have appreciated some real good depth in a few of them.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: didivin on October 25, 2010, 05:55:41 AM
Sony seems to be following handheld market leader Nintendo's revisionist approach. The real question is whether that path can lead Sony to success as well, and only time will tell.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 25, 2010, 01:22:15 PM
*fantasy speculation ahead* I'm sure Sony's Move will seem even more obsolete when Nintendo reveals the Wii 2 to have a motion Camera that also has a infra red camera like in the wiimote that tracks the infra red lights coming from the wiimote iteslf.
The Wiimote 2.0 will still track the sensor bar, but now the sensor bar (that has a motion/infra red camera attached to it) will also track the wimote. The perfect combination of Wii and Move(/kinect) with out stepping on any patents.
Why would Nintendo want to do that though? one flaw in the wiimote design is not knowing where it is at then not being pointed at the screen. This wiimote 2.0 would eliminate that problem while also solving the problem Move is apparently having with a pin point accurate pointer.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 25, 2010, 03:07:23 PM
Speaking of infrared, wouldn't it be cool if there was something like Kinect that worked by detecting a person's body heat? It would be like Predator. GET TO THE CHOPPA!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: alegoicoe on October 25, 2010, 03:27:58 PM
what about x ray vision!!
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 04, 2010, 08:41:45 PM
Sony makes a Move to disKinect consumers from rival product this holiday.
Sony Launches £14m Advert Campaign to Counteract Kinect Effect http://www.movemodo.com/news/2010/11/sony_launches_p14m_advert_campaign_to_counteract_kinect_effect
Quote
[Sony]Will have sold 500,000 Moves in UK by Christmas
With six days before Kinect for Xbox 360 lands in the UK, Sony has kicked off a high-profile advertising campaign for its own motion controller across the country. [Move launches Nov. 10th]
Sony's spending £14m to reach three major audiences: families, social players and core gamers. It's formed partnerships with Channel 4, Disney, Nickelodeon and more, and will sponsor Cineworld and Odeon kids clubs. Whilst it doesn't quite match the $500m spent marketing Kinect in the States, it should go a long way to keeping PlayStation Move in everyone's minds at Christmas.
Sony also claims 250,000 Move controllers have been sold across the UK, and expects that number to double before Christmas arrives. SCE UK's marketing director Alan Duncan said:
It is all about getting the device in people’s hands and we still need to keep doing that. It has been a real success for us, we’re pretty much through quarter of a million units and we expect to sell half a million before Christmas. And when you have half a million advocates showing it to their friends and family, you will soon learn if you have a success or not.
The company is also planning a series of shopping centre tours to get the controller in another half-million hands.
Nice Move Sony, but will it be enough to stop the deep pockets of MS from Kinecting with the consumer? I guess Wii will have to wait and see...
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: nickmitch on November 04, 2010, 10:52:58 PM
I have a firefox addon that measures puns. It just crashed my entire harddrive. Thanks.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 05, 2010, 04:46:47 PM
gotta keep things fresh around here. ;)
anyays...
Is Sony drinking Nintendo's Kool Aid too? maybe.... but it's definitely the sugar free version :D http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/04/peter-dille-talks-playstation-move-success-and-psp-plans/ (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/04/peter-dille-talks-playstation-move-success-and-psp-plans/)
Quote
Q: Sony has a 3D push in one direction and Nintendo is going in a smaller, portable direction. How do you feel about the Nintendo 3DS?
A: Our perspective is they are doing something different and that’s what Nintendo does. They’ve got their own view, Sony has their own view. Our hope is they do it well because we’re big advocates of 3D. We need consumers to have good 3D experiences.
I actually haven’t seen much of their technology. I know people are excited about it. I’ve heard a little bit that if you move your head a certain way you might lose the image. I just hope they do a great job, building a great 3D platform so people are interested in other 3D platforms. Because, collectively, we need to make sure a consumer has a good experience with 3D however they’re experiencing it so they have an interest in more 3D.
Funny you should say that Mr. Dille. I heard that if I refuse to wear those expensive shutter glasses, all I have is an expensive HDTV.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: nickmitch on November 05, 2010, 06:17:23 PM
It's also true if you refuse to pay for 3D content. But also your image is dimmer.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 30, 2010, 02:21:27 PM
Quote from: Sony PR
PLAYSTATION®MOVE MOTION CONTROLLER SALES REACH OVER 4.1 MILLION UNITS WORLDWIDE Remarkable Milestone Achieved in Just 2 Months since Its Release in September
Tokyo, November 30, 2010 - Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) today announced that the sales of PlayStation®Move motion controller for the PlayStation®3 (PS3®) computer entertainment system reached over 4.1 million units worldwide*1. The milestone was reached in just 2 months since its release in September for North America, Europe/PAL territories and Asia, and 1 month since the release in October for Japan. The number not only shows clear success of the launch of the new motion sensing controller but also indicates positive momentum going in to the holiday season and to the year 2011.
*1 Number as of November 2010. Cumulative number since its release date, September 15 for Europe/PAL territories and Asian countries/regions, September 19 for North America and October 21 for Japan. The number does not include sales of stand-alone PlayStation®Eye camera or stand-alone PlayStation®Move navigation controller.
That is shipped and NOT sold through to consumers BTW.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on November 30, 2010, 02:36:32 PM
Well, however many of those 4.1 million units were actually sold, I think we can say with a fair certainty that Move has sold well for an accessory. I've yet to buy a Move, but I do have high hopes for its application in more substantial games in the coming year(s), and that is more likely since it looks like Kinect didn't completely bury it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: SixthAngel on December 01, 2010, 03:48:06 AM
It looks like Move is doing just at well as Kinect but with less publicity.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 01, 2010, 04:02:32 AM
The Kevin Butler ad push behind Move seems to have ceased. Now he's moved on to hijacking race cars for the new Gran Turismo game. He might go back to Move at some future point, but it might be equally likely that it just ends up pushed to the side and forgotten about by Sony. I mean, it doesn't seem like they're throwing 100% support behind it like they could be doing.
I think that's a mistake on their part, because the holiday season is the time where they should be pushing that thing really hard. It just seems like they gave that baby bird a month of Butler support, but then threw it out of the nest to fend for itself during the cold of the holiday season. Is it going to pick itself up and fly, or is it just going to flop around for awhile before it dies of starvation and exposure? Either way, Kevin Butler seems too busy playing with his racing cars to give a damn. Shame on you, Mr. Butler
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 01, 2010, 10:03:32 AM
It looks like Move is doing just at well as Kinect but with less publicity.
It helps that PlayStation Move also costs $100 less than Kinect.
Unless you want to play a multiplayer game or a game that requires the subcon or a game that requires more than one controller.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: KDR_11k on December 05, 2010, 04:55:16 AM
But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 05, 2010, 02:23:36 PM
But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.
If that's true, then Sony really misunderstood what made the Wii so popular.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on December 05, 2010, 02:39:54 PM
But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.
However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2. That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time. That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer. That's just bad design.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Kytim89 on December 05, 2010, 05:38:21 PM
But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.
However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2. That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time. That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer. That's just bad design.
Do you remember when I made my list of things that the Wii 2 should have? I mentioned about how the Wii 2 should have five USB ports and this is why I mentioned having those many ports would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Adrock on December 05, 2010, 09:05:17 PM
However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2. That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time. That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer. That's just bad design.
Agreed. I only have 2 DS3s so I usually only use 1 USB port at a time anyway. If I bought Move, I'd almost certainly buy the Move charger which I suppose was Sony's intention all along. I doubt removing 2 USB ports in the Slim was really a difference maker. Seems like poor planning considering they knew Move was on the way. It's kind of one big F-U to their fans. "Support Move... we even made it more annoying for you." Fail.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 06, 2010, 10:11:33 AM
It was penny-pinching, plain and simple. Like why they removed PS2 BC, which saved them very little.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 06, 2010, 11:57:32 AM
very little x20million is actually quite alot, especially when you are already hopelessly in the red.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 06, 2010, 04:31:58 PM
It only saved them like $2 per system. I know why they did (they were losing over $100 on every PS3), but it they at least could have did something like the Xbox 360 where you could download patches for some PS2 games to make them BC.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 06, 2010, 06:21:15 PM
But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.
However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2. That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time. That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer. That's just bad design.
I agree. But you can solve the problem yourself fairly easily by getting a USB hub. I'm not sure, but I think pretty much any computer USB hub will work on the PS3, but you might want to do some research on that. With a Hub you can turn one USB slot into like 4 or 5 or whatever. The only potential issue here is for devices that draw a lot of power from USB, but something like a controller shouldn't be an issue at all.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 06, 2010, 09:09:34 PM
Except they are drawing a lot of power, because they're using the USB port to charge. You could get a powered hub, which in addition to costing money takes up a power outlet, but the point is you shouldn't have to.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 07, 2010, 02:48:17 AM
I honestly didn't think of that because I always use the controllers through the wire whenever I'm playing on my friend's PS3. He's got 9ft USB cables, so its not really an issue. But yeah, you can get powered hubs, and actually I think they have USB charger things now that plug into regular wall outlets and that provides powered USB ports for charging cell phones and things like that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 14, 2011, 02:55:50 PM
Kinect vs Move: Round 1 The Holiday Season has come and gone http://www.industrygamers.com/news/microsofts-xbox-360-kinect-bundles-outsold-move-bundles-by-51/ (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/microsofts-xbox-360-kinect-bundles-outsold-move-bundles-by-51/)
Quote
If you want to look at the recent holiday season as "Round 1" of the motion controls battle between Microsoft and Sony, it would appear that Microsoft's Kinect is winning handily (bad pun, considering that it's "hands free" gaming). Not only has Kinect quickly shipped 8 million units, but for the month of December, Xbox 360 Kinect bundles outsold PS3 Move bundles considerably. The software for the motion camera is faring far better too, according to Wedbush analyst Michael Pachter.
"About one fifth of PS3 sales included bundles with Sony’s Move controller, suggesting a modest third month (we have chosen not to subscribe to peripheral data). About half of Xbox 360 sales included bundles with Microsoft’s Kinect peripheral, as Xbox 360 Kinect console bundles outsold PS3 Move console bundles by 5:1," Pachter said.
"Microsoft announced that it has shipped 8 million Kinect units since launch (in November), which was raised from its earlier goal of 5 million. More significantly, in our view, the top two selling Kinect software titles outsold the top two Move titles by over 13:1."
Looks like this round went overwhelmingly to Kinect, but can Sony get some wind under Move's wings and raise this add-on to be something more than Wii for PS3 owners minus all the Nintendo software that Wii popular in the first place? What can Sony do at this point moving forward to see even similar success to Kinect? What have they been doing wrong?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2011, 05:52:57 PM
I don't think Sony really did anything wrong. It's just that Kinect's success was unexpected. Everyone figured Kinect was going to be an malfunctioning piece of crap. Sony figured the same thing so they went with something more conservative that is more or less a Wii knock-off. I don't blame them for that. The Wii concept is proven and established.
MS was risking the possibility that their new controller-less idea was going to bomb and then where would they be? It's less like Sony screwed up but more that Microsoft's gamble paid off. You could have said the same thing about the Wii. Did Sony and MS necessarily do something wrong in not having motion control when their consoles launched? Not really. They didn't do everything perfect but their controller approach was a conservative and safe one. Nintendo did something really out there and it paid off. But if they hadn't the Wii would have bombed huge and Nintendo might very well be out of business right now. You can look back in hindsight and say that Sony or MS should have gone the same route but how do you anticipate something so out of left field and how do you know that this huge risk will pay off? You can't, so we can't hold either company responsible.
Sony played it safe and it just didn't really work out. But it would have taken clairvoyance to have known otherwise. Pretty much anyone who knows anything about games figured Kinect was a certain bomb.
And is Sony fucked? Did they lose a bunch of money with Move? Move can be profitable and successful without having higher sales than Kinect. All Sony should really care about is if the PS3 is selling well and they're making a profit from it. From a business perspective it isn't like "number one or bust". You can still be profitable in last place. I don't know if Sony is doing that but we know it can happen.
What Sony needs to do now is just make good games for Move. It isn't like they can change it now. They went with the Wii rip-off and that's what they've got and that's what they have to support.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 14, 2011, 10:32:53 PM
Move has been selling fine, it is far from a bomb. It offers a different experience then Kinect, nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 15, 2011, 01:43:47 AM
Sony figured the same thing so they went with something more conservative that is more or less a Wii knock-off. I don't blame them for that. The Wii concept is proven and established.
That niche was already filled. At least with Kinect, MS sorta made the niche big enough so they could fit in it too. Sony brought absolutely nothing new or different to the table, and why would they need to be clairvoyant to see that? Even if Kinect were completely disregarded and not in the equation at all its still obvious that Move wasn't offering anything new or original. You said yourself the Wii concept is "proven and established", so there was no reason for Sony to reinvent the wheel. Microsoft didn't reinvent the wheel, instead they invented a helicopter. Why can't Sony do something original for once in their miserable lives?
I just took advantage of the $50 promotional credit on amazon and finally got my own PS3, but I have zero interest in Move. The point of having a PS3 is to take advantage of the traditional 3rd party games that the Wii is missing out on. I already have a Wii for everything else. It would just be a waste for me to buy Move when I already have that with the Wii. Like you said, it was already "proven and established" with the Wii, so its like someone making a great discovery in science and then several years later someone else makes the same discovery. What the hell is the point? Its been done before.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ian Sane on January 17, 2011, 01:22:47 PM
Quote
That niche was already filled. At least with Kinect, MS sorta made the niche big enough so they could fit in it too. Sony brought absolutely nothing new or different to the table, and why would they need to be clairvoyant to see that? Even if Kinect were completely disregarded and not in the equation at all its still obvious that Move wasn't offering anything new or original. You said yourself the Wii concept is "proven and established", so there was no reason for Sony to reinvent the wheel. Microsoft didn't reinvent the wheel, instead they invented a helicopter. Why can't Sony do something original for once in their miserable lives?
Well copycat stuff sells well all the time. Sometimes you get something like Guitar Hero where the copycat becomes a huge success while the innovator remains obscure. Sony has found success with copycat stuff before so it still seems like a safer bet than going with a new idea that could bomb. Plus there is value in matching the competition. The Wii had something the PS3 did not. Now it doesn't. Now the PS3 can do everything the Wii can do plus more.
Copying the analog stick worked out fine for Sony. Do you think a PS3 owner gives a **** if the idea has been done by someone else before? All they give a damn about is that that feature is now available for the system that they own. It is totally the safer idea, particularly when we're dealing with different systems. It isn't like Sony is copying a game that is already on the PS3 and thus already available to PS3 users. Plus now if a third party is making a motion control game they likely will have to pick between the Wii method or the Kinect method. Sony's method is compatible with the market leading method. A third party Wii game can, in theory, be easy to port to the PS3. Sony does not have to compete with Nintendo for development. If they did a brand new thing then it would be Nintendo vs. Sony vs. MS. Third parties would have to pick and they might not pick Sony. But now it is Sony/Nintendo vs. MS. It's kind of like how despite Nintendo selling the most systems when it comes to third party support for everything but motion control it is Sony/MS vs. Nintendo. Despite being in last place Sony can provide much better third party support to their users than Nintendo does because they can get an easy multiplatform release on Xbox 360 games.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on January 30, 2011, 04:21:52 PM
Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games. I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction. I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging. Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV. Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that. I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern. For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 31, 2011, 02:23:21 AM
Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games. I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction. I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging. Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV. Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that. I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern. For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.
Yeah they are terribly placed. I've considered the nav controller for Heavy Rain (which utilizes the Move controller pretty well). I bought the sports champion bundle and one extra move controller (really enjoy the gladiator game)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on January 31, 2011, 02:36:16 AM
Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games. I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction. I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging. Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV. Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that. I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern. For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.
Yeah they are terribly placed. I've considered the nav controller for Heavy Rain (which utilizes the Move controller pretty well). I bought the sports champion bundle and one extra move controller (really enjoy the gladiator game)
I only played a little of Sports Champions, enough to play a little of every game, and it's surprisingly well-made. Nothing I'll play for very long, but not a bad game. I tried the demo for Heavy Rain with Move Support, and I just couldn't get the hang of it. Gestures that were pretty simple to do with an analog stick on the Dualshock were annoyingly tricky to do with the Move controller. Dead Space Extraction works really well with Move, though. For a device that is supposedly terrible as a pointing device, it works pretty well for me. I'm looking forward to replaying RE 5 with it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 31, 2011, 02:46:08 AM
Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games. I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction. I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging. Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV. Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that. I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern. For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.
Yeah they are terribly placed. I've considered the nav controller for Heavy Rain (which utilizes the Move controller pretty well). I bought the sports champion bundle and one extra move controller (really enjoy the gladiator game)
I only played a little of Sports Champions, enough to play a little of every game, and it's surprisingly well-made. Nothing I'll play for very long, but not a bad game. I tried the demo for Heavy Rain with Move Support, and I just couldn't get the hang of it. Gestures that were pretty simple to do with an analog stick on the Dualshock were annoyingly tricky to do with the Move controller. Dead Space Extraction works really well with Move, though. For a device that is supposedly terrible as a pointing device, it works pretty well for me. I'm looking forward to replaying RE 5 with it.
Heavy Rain does take getting used to, but once you do it pulls you into the game that much more.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 21, 2011, 01:05:48 PM
Top Spin 4 (2k Sports) Commercial for Move starring Serena Williams..... SFW? maybe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zTAKU-OrI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zTAKU-OrI)
Serena is looking pretty damn hot.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 22, 2011, 12:28:30 PM
Looks like PS3 has surpassed 50 million units shipped and Move has shipped over 8 million
Quote
PlayStation(R)3 Sales Reach 50 Million Units Worldwide / Sales of PlayStation(R)Move motion controller for PlayStation(R)3 (PS3(R)) surpass 8 million units worldwide, accelerating the expansion of the PS3 Platform.
TOKYO, April 15, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCE) today announced that the cumulative sales of the PlayStation(R)3 (PS3(R)) computer entertainment system reached a milestone of 50 million units(1) worldwide, as of March 29, 2011.
SCE also announced that PlayStation(R)Move sales surpassed 8 million units(1) worldwide as of April 3, demonstrating continued growth and momentum of the PS3 platform.
I hear E.T. the video game shipped a lot of copies to a landfill. Point is: shipped doesn't mean the same thing as sales.
No, but it is some indication of what the sales are. You don't make and ship more product if people aren't buying it. Otherwise, it's just stock that's doomed to be shipped back to you if retailers purchase it altogether. I'd say the actual Move sales are somewhere between 5-6 million units.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 22, 2011, 10:03:40 PM
Why does everyone feel the need to point out that shipped and sold aren't exactly the same thing as if "SHIPPED" isn't what was said in the first place?
I know what shipped vs sold means, and I can only assume everyone else does too unless they actually mix up the words, which I have not done. TO my understanding the big 3 report their numbers in 2 to 3 different ways.
Sony reports "Shipped" as shipped to warehouses (as I've been told, but it could be the same as MS) MS reports "Shipped" as sold to retailers (Retailers place an order, MS counts that as X units sold) Nintendo reports "Sold" as in sold through to customers (mostly using 3rd party trackers)
I typed this message @ 12:30pst this afternoon, just realized I never sent it.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: rmorrison100 on April 24, 2011, 09:16:23 PM
I think it's not bad at all.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Halbred on April 24, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Hey, I've got a question: does Trophy support go away when PSN's not working (like it's not now)? 'Cause I was playing lots of TR Underworld last night and I didn't get one stinkin' Trophy, which is very strange. Now, if Trophy support IS down, will the Trophies I should have gotten not "count" when PSN goes back up? Because if that's the case, I may as well just restart my game (I just cleared the first level).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 24, 2011, 11:47:05 PM
The only trophies that are effected are ones which you get through online play. I've been earning lots of trophies. The only thing you can't do is sync them with the server, so that might be an issue if you play over multiple systems. You can earn offline trophies in games as normal... and they will count once PSN is back up. The only thing PSN does is store them on a server so others can view them.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 25, 2011, 12:14:39 AM
The only trophies that are effected are ones which you get through online play. I've been earning lots of trophies. The only thing you can't do is sync them with the server, so that might be an issue if you play over multiple systems.
Yep. Any trophies you get offline can just be synched with the servers once they're back up. I would hope so, anyway. I've gotten 2 Platinums while PSN has been down. ;)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 25, 2011, 12:29:11 AM
I've only got one Platinum period since I got my PS3 in January. Although, I got up to 90% in Black Ops and by rights I should have that one, but I'm stuck on those stupid trophies which REQUIRE a competent co-op team in Zombies but that's impossible. I beat the game on Veteran so I deserve the Platinum, but because of 2-3 zombie trophies which I can't do by myself I'm screwed.
The zombie trophies should be optional. They shouldn't factor in towards getting the platinum. Or at the very least they should just be ones you can get on your own and don't have to depend on someone else shooting you with a pack a punch crossbow. How the hell can I do that trophy on my own? No matter how great a player you are, you have to someone else help you with these. Its not right.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 25, 2011, 02:10:37 AM
I've only got one Platinum period since I got my PS3 in January. Although, I got up to 90% in Black Ops and by rights I should have that one, but I'm stuck on those stupid trophies which REQUIRE a competent co-op team in Zombies but that's impossible. I beat the game on Veteran so I deserve the Platinum, but because of 2-3 zombie trophies which I can't do by myself I'm screwed.
The zombie trophies should be optional. They shouldn't factor in towards getting the platinum. Or at the very least they should just be ones you can get on your own and don't have to depend on someone else shooting you with a pack a punch crossbow. How the hell can I do that trophy on my own? No matter how great a player you are, you have to someone else help you with these. Its not right.
Yeah, I pretty much despise multiplayer trophies in general. For one thing, you usually have to have very specific circumstances to get them that are so far beyond your control that you pretty much have to cheat and boost them. For another, once the online servers go down, you're usually screwed these days since developers usually require that they be online multiplayer so you can't use local.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 25, 2011, 02:48:47 AM
Trophies are supposed to be for personal accomplishments, so the ones which require co-op with other players go against the point of what trophies are all about.
And I know what you mean about the online trophies. I remember not that long ago EA severed all support for a huge number of online games. Most of them were sports games like Madden from previous years. I'm sure most people weren't playing those older years anymore and may not care, but let's say there were some online trophies that someone had missed and they wanted to go back and complete those just for consistency's sake. Well, unfortunately that's impossible now because its no longer even possible to play those games online.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 25, 2011, 02:57:00 AM
And, at least on the 360, it seems like most of the achievements in EA's sports games are tied to the online multiplayer.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 25, 2011, 10:14:21 AM
PSN sucks. They should give everyone PS Plus for free for dealing with this bullshit, it's not like anyone actually pays for it anyway. Absolutely pathetic...5 days so far. It's so funny that this came on a free XBL Gold weekend too.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 25, 2011, 10:39:09 AM
Yeah, Microsoft has to be pretty happy right now. They've got an anser to anyone criticizing them for charging for Xbox Live when PSN is free.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 25, 2011, 01:53:30 PM
Yeah, Microsoft has to be pretty happy right now. They've got an anser to anyone criticizing them for charging for Xbox Live when PSN is free.
The irony, though, is that Microsoft would probably be doing the same thing as Sony if they were hacked. They can't say anything comparing to PSN's free status until Sony brings PSN back online and does or does not compensate gamers for the trouble.
It would really be in Sony's best interest to bleed a little and at least give their Plus members a credit or something on PSN to apologize for this. I don't expect we'll get anything, though (even though I'm a Plus member, there's very little that Plus does online).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 25, 2011, 05:07:36 PM
The irony, though, is that Microsoft would probably be doing the same thing as Sony if they were hacked.
Hard to say. I'm sure not everyone would overreact the way Sony did and shut the whole entire thing down for a week just because a handful of people were pirating. Then again, Xbox live might be more "robust" and this sort of thing might not have happened in the first place. Sometimes you get what you pay for.
I remember when Nintendo made the Opera browser on the Wii a free download they gave everyone who had paid for the browser in the past a 500 point credit which was the same amount that the browser had cost when they were charging for it. They didn't have to, but Nintendo is cool like that. Since Sony isn't cool like that no one will probably get anything, but they could give everyone a $5 PSN credit like Nintendo did.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ceric on April 25, 2011, 05:11:47 PM
The irony, though, is that Microsoft would probably be doing the same thing as Sony if they were hacked.
Hard to say. I'm sure not everyone would overreact the way Sony did and shut the whole entire thing down for a week just because a handful of people were pirating. Then again, Xbox live might be more "robust" and this sort of thing might not have happened in the first place. Sometimes you get what you pay for.
I remember when Nintendo made the Opera browser on the Wii a free download they gave everyone who had paid for the browser in the past a 500 point credit which was the same amount that the browser had cost when they were charging for it. They didn't have to, but Nintendo is cool like that. Since Sony isn't cool like that no one will probably get anything, but they could give everyone a $5 PSN credit like Nintendo did.
If anything it be a month of Plus or some Sony game where they take a minimal hit.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Mop it up on April 26, 2011, 08:34:50 PM
Looks like PS3 has surpassed 50 million units shipped and Move has shipped over 8 million
Something seems suspect about that number. From what I can find, worldwide sales of the PS3 are around 38 million. Could that really be so far off, or does Sony really have 12 million PS3s sitting on store shelves and in warehouses?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 26, 2011, 08:38:50 PM
How do replacements for broken systems factor into all this? I know the 360 failure rate was as high as 1 in 5 at one point. I don't think the PS3's failure rate was as bad as that, but it still has to be a significant factor. Even if its only 1 in 10 then out 50 million units that's 5 million that died and had to be replaced. Somehow, I think the failure rate is higher than that though, but I don't have the figures off hand.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ceric on April 26, 2011, 08:55:09 PM
Man My Big Old BC PS3 gets used at least 4 hours a day, if not all day, and its still going strong.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on April 26, 2011, 10:19:19 PM
Sony has been known to "Buy" their own product to inflate sales numbers so I would take anything from them without a pound of salt. It's wrong when you are more likely to believe what Microsoft might say than another company.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on April 26, 2011, 10:56:22 PM
Man My Big Old BC PS3 gets used at least 4 hours a day, if not all day, and its still going strong.
By comparison, though, my old BC PS3 was used probably 5-6 hours every day, and it died last year. Sony really did a piss-poor job designing the old model, as I was told by PS3 repairmen that all the original models will eventually die with the Yellow Light of Death (the newer ones use a different design that handles heat better, so they'll last much longer). And once it happens once, your PS3 is living on borrowed time no matter how many times it's "repaired". So enjoy your BC PS3 while it lasts, because from my own experience it probably has 1-2 years left in it at best.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 21, 2011, 12:40:52 PM
Sony has outdone themselves this time and might possibly beat Project Café to the punch...
NGP/PSP to get Move support!? http://playstationlifestyle.net/2011/05/20/ps-move-support-could-be-coming-to-ngp-psp/ http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2011/0118032.html
(http://k.min.us/iswzy.jpg)
(http://k.min.us/icCP3G.jpg)
(http://k.min.us/icCYam.jpg)
Quote
Mobile gaming platforms are designed for playing games without the need to be attached to a display or a power source. Examples mobile gaming platforms include Sony PlayStation Portable (PSP) and PSP Go. Additionally, other devices whose main function is other than playing games can also provide mobile gaming functionality, such as cell phones, Personal Digital Assistants (PDA), MP3 players, etc. Online gaming is also possible, wherein a user can interactively play against or with other users over the Internet.
As game complexity continues to intrigue players, gaming software and hardware manufacturers have continued to innovate to enable additional interactivity. In reality, however, the way in which users interact with a game has not changed dramatically over the years. Commonly, users still play computer games using hand held controllers or interact with programs using mouse pointing devices. Portable gaming devices that have gyro and position sensing capabilities are often twisted and turned during game play to accommodate a user interface for the game. However, it is uncomfortable for the user to visually track the screen unless the user moves his head in the same direction as the twisting and turning of the gaming device. This is not often possible, resulting in poor gaming experiences.
As game complexity continues to intrigue players, game and hardware manufacturers have continued to innovate to enable additional interactivity and computer programs. A growing trend in the computer gaming industry is to develop games that increase the interaction between user and the gaming system. One way of accomplishing a richer interactive experience is to use wireless game controllers whose movement is tracked by the gaming system in order to track the player’s movements and use these movements as inputs for the game. Generally speaking, gesture input refers to having an electronic device such as a computing system, video game console, smart appliance, etc., react to some gesture captured by a video camera that tracks an object.
Embodiments of the present invention provide methods, systems, and computer programs for methods, systems, and programs for wireless interaction with a portable device. In one embodiment, a method operation establishes a communications link between the portable device and the stand. The stand tracks the motion of an input device within an interactivity zone. In another method operation, the portable device interfaces with the input device to generate actions associated with game objects in the portable device, where the interface takes place when the input device is in or near the interactivity zone. Additionally, the stand moves when the tracking detects that the input device is outside predefined boundaries near an edge of the interactivity zone. The stand movement information is transferred via the communications link to update the location of the interactivity zone.
Now this idea looks retarded when you think about using it with an NGP or PSP, but this is what I had in mind for the Café controller to do in use with the TV. That is assuming the IR lights in the controller wasn't a mistranslation.
But also not how it says the thing may be 3D compatible with the 3D glasses. We know PSP ain't doin 3D without a special contraption, but do you think the NGP might be able to do glasses 3D?
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ceric on May 23, 2011, 10:33:42 AM
With a forward facing camera technically they would have everything you need to do Move support...
Title: HotD: Overkill [Extended Cut]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 27, 2011, 12:46:07 PM
Move gets House of the Dead: Overkill [Extended Cut] (http://i.imgur.com/rBQF4.jpg) http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2011/05/27/the-house-of-the-dead-overkill-extended-cut-announced/ (http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2011/05/27/the-house-of-the-dead-overkill-extended-cut-announced/)
Quote
When we released The House of the Dead: OVERKILL for Wii, one of the most common things we heard is the wish that it be on a next gen console. Your wishes have been heard and answered! That mutant massacring B-Movie blood fest, The House of the Dead: OVERKILL, is coming to the Playstation 3 with some great extras! The House of the Dead: OVERKILL Extended Cut is presented for the first time in spectacular high definition with 3D support and Playstation Move compatibility on the Playstation3. This gruesome shooter puts you in the middle of a mutant outbreak in Bayou County. The extended cut has all seven stages of the original re-mastered, and two brand new scenarios added, so the baddest just got bigger!
(http://i.imgur.com/7n172.jpg)
If you don't own the Wii Original, love B-movie horror, been looking for something to play on your PS Move and consider yourself a gamer, you should pick this up this Halloween.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on May 27, 2011, 12:52:30 PM
Cool. I'll probably pick that up, along with the PS3 version of No More Heroes assuming that both are dramatically better than their original incarnations. So far, my Move has pretty much exclusively been used for Dead Space Extraction HD, so it'll be good to have another game I want to use the peripheral on (I'm still mulling over whether I want to bother using it for Killzone 3. I would prefer using it on a good 3rd person shooter).
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on May 27, 2011, 03:53:53 PM
Does the pointer function even work? Last time I played it was broken. An old school NES gun was better.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 27, 2011, 05:00:44 PM
I've only played Move once (it was a store display) and it seemed kinda floaty to me. not very accurate, atleast not nearly as accurate as the wiimote.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on May 27, 2011, 05:16:36 PM
I've only played Move once (it was a store display) and it seemed kinda floaty to me. not very accurate, atleast not nearly as accurate as the wiimote.
TBH, I had issues playing Dead Space Extraction with it. I had problems hitting small boss weakpoints that I don't remember having trouble hitting on the Wii version. I haven't tried it with Resident Evil 5 yet, so I don't want to make a final judgement on the hardware yet, though.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ceric on May 27, 2011, 05:17:50 PM
I have a Move at home and it has all the problems that having the camera being fixed causes but, when its properly calibrated it can be very precise. I prefer the Wii approach. You lose some precision but the need to calibrate goes away so it tends to become a wash. Whats more annoying though is that none of the Move games I've played uses the pointer for menues and you don't use the pointer to navigate the XMB. Instead you hold the trigger and flick it in the direction you want to go.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ymeegod on May 28, 2011, 12:01:05 AM
House of the Dead Overkill HD, loved it on the WII--great ending :).
BTW: Why did you bother getting the PlayStation Move navigation controller? You should have gotten two wands instead.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ceric on May 28, 2011, 09:01:17 AM
House of the Dead Overkill HD, loved it on the WII--great ending :) .
BTW: Why did you bother getting the PlayStation Move navigation controller? You should have gotten two wands instead.
Was that to me? I don't have one.
I just got the Move. I already had the Camera from Eye of Judgement (Could have been a good game but it shot itself in the foot by not having a single player mode really and not having any place in the game with all the rules.)
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on November 03, 2011, 06:48:53 PM
I'd put this in Sony's getting hit hard lately, but its locked
but Sony sold its Spider-man merchandising rights, which could be worth more than the movie rights considering toys and **** sell pretty decently.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: broodwars on November 03, 2011, 06:57:34 PM
I'd put this in Sony's getting hit hard lately, but its locked
but Sony sold its Spider-man merchandising rights, which could be worth more than the movie rights considering toys and **** sell pretty decently.
I really wish Sony would just sell all its Spider-Man rights back to Disney. Sony owning the license was the primary reason why the excellent Spectacular Spider-Man animated series was canceled once Disney acquired Marvel and is now being replaced by almost the exact same series in Ultimate Spider-Man. Besides, I have a lot of doubts about the quality of this upcoming Spider-Man reboot, especially since it's an unnecessary origin story reboot in the first place.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ceric on November 04, 2011, 03:05:58 PM
I'd put this in Sony's getting hit hard lately, but its locked
but Sony sold its Spider-man merchandising rights, which could be worth more than the movie rights considering toys and **** sell pretty decently.
I really wish Sony would just sell all its Spider-Man rights back to Disney. Sony owning the license was the primary reason why the excellent Spectacular Spider-Man animated series was canceled once Disney acquired Marvel and is now being replaced by almost the exact same series in Ultimate Spider-Man. Besides, I have a lot of doubts about the quality of this upcoming Spider-Man reboot, especially since it's an unnecessary origin story reboot in the first place.
Thats what annoys me the most about it... My 3 year old could tell you how Spider-Man became Spider-man.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: nickmitch on November 04, 2011, 05:15:30 PM
It is pretty pointless, but they at least they're redoing the whole webshooters thing. It really didn't make sense for the webbing to just come out of wrists just because.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: oohhboy on November 07, 2011, 07:07:34 PM
SONY IS DOOOOOOMMMMED (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/38409/Sony_Put_On_Negative_Credit_Watch_Following_Projected_Losses.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+News%29).
Nah, just sort of kidding. Based on Sony's continued losses with the Playstation division, and the company as a whole projected to make an annual loss of $1.6 Billion dollars (¥90 billion), S&P has decided to place a negative credit watch on Sony's A- credit rating.
While this has no immediate impact on Sony, it implies there is a credit downgrade down the road should losses continue without signs of improvement. A credit downgrade would increase the cost of future borrowing for Sony and renewal of current debts. As of March 31 2011 (http://www.stock-analysis-on.net/NYSE/Company/Sony-Corp/Ratios/Long-term-Debt-and-Solvency), Sony as a whole owes $12 Billion dollars backed by $43 Billion dollars in capital paying $294 million dollars to service the interest.
Sony could maintain the status quo for atleast decade before potentially entering a bad earnings/debt downgrade/stock holder revolt death spiral. But well before that would happen, Sony would spin off division(s), sell more stock, fire workers, sell assest, so bankruptcy is not on the table even in the long term unless the company goes of a cliff.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2011, 11:08:03 AM
You know I wish my Credit was that Super Durable. I have a nice car, big house, and not working living off my loans.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: ThePerm on November 10, 2011, 05:08:57 AM
lol, i wish i could get political haha.
Title: Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean
Post by: King of Twitch on October 01, 2018, 09:10:12 PM
Pretty funny that our competitor has nothing to talk about this year.
