Poll

Who Should Be Added in the Second DLC Wave?

Shrek
1 (2.5%)
Godzilla
1 (2.5%)
James Bond
1 (2.5%)
James Jones
1 (2.5%)
Super Kong
1 (2.5%)
Tutorial Pig
1 (2.5%)
Who cares? Fox Only, No Items, Final Destination
1 (2.5%)
Your Mom
2 (5%)
Malon
3 (7.5%)
Geno
2 (5%)
Funky Kong
4 (10%)
Reggie
2 (5%)
Iwata
1 (2.5%)
The Playstation All-Stars
1 (2.5%)
Goku
1 (2.5%)
The volleyball from Dead or Alive Xtreme Volleyball
2 (5%)
Nintendo Characters!
6 (15%)
The Mon-Stars from Space Jam
2 (5%)
More 3rd Party Characters!
5 (12.5%)
Sakurai
2 (5%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 21, 2020, 02:36:44 PM

Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC  (Read 127041 times)

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Offline lolmonade

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #125 on: March 28, 2018, 08:32:23 AM »
But if the new game allows you to play as EVEN MORE POKEMON, how could you possibly resist...?

I mean...I get the feeling Pokken may be in our future if THATS the metric.

I do wish we’d get a weird curveball character announcement like ABRAHAM LINCOLN FROM CODE NAME S.T.E.A.M. for the new one though.

There fixed that for you.
Do you guys even curveball?

Also, Phoenix was in Ultimate MvC3. He was pretty terrible.


Sadly, I think i trust Nintendo to make a character like Phoenix Wright viable in Smash Bros more than I trust Capcom to make a fun/interesting moveset for a semi-serious fighting game.


A lot of why I want him in it is cause my wife & I have been slowly playing through the original Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney on Wii, and it's been fun seeing her reactions to stuff.

Offline lolmonade

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #126 on: March 28, 2018, 08:33:25 AM »
I actually think Bomberman is a very possible candidate for new challenger, BUT I could see it being a challenge coming up with a moveset.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #127 on: March 28, 2018, 08:56:57 AM »
Lolmonade:  I think the move set would be simplistic like Sonic.

His special moves would focus around his bombs.  Different directions and special allow him to place different bombs. 
Bomb, Rubber Bomb, Detonator Bomb. 

Picking up a bomb allows him to charge up the bombs, and the biast grows in size.  Bombs can either change in size or color to indicate charge. 

Detonator bombs can be blown up by doing a taunt. or another move.  I like the idea of having someone placing bombs, and causing a lot of random havoc on the screen.
 

Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #128 on: March 28, 2018, 09:07:59 AM »
I actually think Bomberman is a very possible candidate for new challenger, BUT I could see it being a challenge coming up with a moveset.
I don’t. Sakurai bases what he can on the actual games then makes up the rest. Looking at some existing characters, you can see how he uses their design to create certain moves. Take Ness, for example. He has a fairly large head so he got two separate headbutt moves.

There’s enough in Bomberman games to create several moves. Konami as a company just sucks now so, you know, I don’t want to see Bomberman in Super Smash Bros.

Offline lolmonade

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #129 on: March 28, 2018, 10:24:33 AM »
I actually think Bomberman is a very possible candidate for new challenger, BUT I could see it being a challenge coming up with a moveset.
I don’t. Sakurai bases what he can on the actual games then makes up the rest. Looking at some existing characters, you can see how he uses their design to create certain moves. Take Ness, for example. He has a fairly large head so he got two separate headbutt moves.

There’s enough in Bomberman games to create several moves. Konami as a company just sucks now so, you know, I don’t want to see Bomberman in Super Smash Bros.


I guess I'm just not sure if Konami REALLY gains much by Bomberman being included in smash, as much as Nintendo gains by having him as part of the roster.  Sure, it's propping up a character they own and maybe helps elevate him along with the other platforms Bomberman r releases.


I don't like a lot of what Konami has done as of late either, but we're also beholden to them if we want to see some of their franchises exist in any capacity moving forward. 




Offline segagamersteph

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #130 on: March 28, 2018, 10:38:44 AM »
Bring back the Ice Climbers, keep Pac-Man, introduce Ms. Pac-Man (if they haven't already), maybe grab Laura Croft or Duke Nukem as possible 3rd party, and Crash if they can't get Crash it's time to give up.

I think that is all I'd ask for, port, remake, new game it's all good to me just excited it's coming this year. I haven't turned my Wii U version on in a long time so I have no idea who the newest characters are. But I get excited for new things.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #131 on: March 28, 2018, 11:39:12 AM »
I guess I'm too selfish to care if Konami benefits from having Bomberman in Smash.  My personal delight at the idea is enough for me to justify.
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Offline lolmonade

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #132 on: March 28, 2018, 11:51:54 AM »
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #133 on: March 28, 2018, 11:56:56 AM »
I guess I'm too selfish to care if Konami benefits from having Bomberman in Smash.  My personal delight at the idea is enough for me to justify.
That’s fair. I think it sends a bad message. Konami treats the people who created and/or made these IP what they are today like garbage then still benefits from their work later. Appearing in Super Smash Bros. is continuous marketing for providing a license for a character and very little to no other actual work on the game. It just doesn’t sit well with me. There are ways of running a business without being a dick about it.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #134 on: March 28, 2018, 11:59:17 AM »
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.

No reason we can't have both.

I guess I'm too selfish to care if Konami benefits from having Bomberman in Smash.  My personal delight at the idea is enough for me to justify.
That’s fair. I think it sends a bad message. Konami treats the people who created and/or made these IP what they are today like garbage then still benefits from their work later. Appearing in Super Smash Bros. is continuous marketing for providing a license for a character and very little to no other actual work on the game. It just doesn’t sit well with me. There are ways of running a business without being a dick about it.

Your feelings are very much justified.  I wish they could be a better company or just sell off the IP, but who knows when we'll get another Smash Bros.
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #135 on: March 28, 2018, 01:12:53 PM »
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.

No reason we can't have both.

I can think of one: Square Enix has basically locked all the old Taito stuff in a vault and isn't letting it out.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #136 on: March 28, 2018, 01:26:14 PM »
Ice Climbers it is!
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #137 on: March 28, 2018, 07:48:04 PM »
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.

I can support this.  Though I like Ice Climbers.  I really want Pokemon Trainer back.  I liked characters with multiple move sets.  Samus/Zero Suit  Zelda/Shiek  Pokemon Trainer. 

I would really like to see Mario get Cappy to differentiate himself from previous games, and Luigi to get his vacuum.  But I never really liked Luigi in the game.  I would also retire Jigglypuff, and all the Pokemon but Pikachu and give us 3 completely new Pokemon combatants. 

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #138 on: March 28, 2018, 08:08:35 PM »
Puff is never going away. She's too popular in Japan.

Luigi should get a new moveset, but he's different enough from Mario as-is that there's no dire need for a change.

Charizard, Mewtwo, and Lucario are all fine. Keep them in. As much as I love Greninja, he occupies a weird space as a character with extremely fast moves and jumps but very low damage and very hard to execute kill-confirms (aka nothing that launches). He's like a worse Sheik, and when he had higher damage output in the early days of the 3DS, he was truly something to be reckoned with. Those days are gone...
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #139 on: March 28, 2018, 11:21:32 PM »
Puff is never going away. She's too popular in Japan.

Not to mention having been in every Smash game. Jig's a legacy / OG smasher who's sleep move is a favorite out of all the characters and various moves they perform. Like a Falcon Punch!
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Offline Order.RSS

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #140 on: March 29, 2018, 01:04:41 PM »
Can't believe this heresy, "retire Jigglypuff"?! "Retire the Ice Climbers"?!
Mad lunacy, those are such fun characters!  :(  Smash needs as much weirdness as possible, getting stomped by Jiggly is hilarious and the Ice Climbers are a great excuse for an annoying auto-scroller stage.

I would agree that giving Mario more distinct moves would be cool, but at the same time he's kinda meant to be the 'easy, average' character to learn with right? So I don't think his entire moveset can be overhauled, maybe just the side-B attacks.

Saw Lara Croft being mentioned above, that'd be cool. She's iconic enough, Smash could use some more ladies, and she had several outings on Nintendo systems (GBA/GC/DS/Wii). Isn't the franchise currently exclusive to Xbox though?

Bomberman's moveset could be a lot like Snake's from Brawl right, plant bombs/throw bombs, then one rush attack on one of those mounts he can ride on. Just needs a good recovery move, maybe a steerable projectile like Ness/Lucas.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #141 on: March 29, 2018, 01:35:44 PM »
1. I never really used Ice Climbers or Jigglypuff for anything but a lark. I’d never advocate getting rid of them. They have unique full movesets. No reason to retire them. I only suggested retiring regular Link in favor of Hylian Champion Link because we’d still have Toon Link. Characters with unique movesets should stay.

2. Yeah, Mario is meant to be the basic, easier-for-beginners Shoto character like Ryu in Street Fighter (Up+B is basically a Shoryuken). Then, Sakurai actually added Ryu who is weirdly this more technical, harder to master character in Super Smash Bros. Due to the nature of the series, I don’t think Mario ever really needed to be the Shotokan fighter because the gameplay is so inviting. There are no complicated button combinations. Sure, Mario could use some new moves though if given the choice, I’d rather Luigi get more Luigi’s Mansion inspired moves.

3. Rise of the Tomb Raider was timed exclusive on Xbox 360/One. Anyway, I’d argue that original Lara Croft is the iconic version. Second reboot Lara Croft hasn’t appeared on Nintendo consoles yet even if it’d be easier to fit her into the series since her main weapon is the bow rather than dual handguns. I know Bayonetta has guns, but they’re like magic guns. Sakurai specifically didn’t give Snake real guns.

4. Maybe have the kangaroo-like creature appear and have Bomberman jettison the animal like Mario does with Yoshi in Super Mario World.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #142 on: March 29, 2018, 03:45:41 PM »
I think the issue with trying to change existing character movesets is that there are people like me who already like Mario and Luigi the way they are (though I didn't like the changes to Luigi in Brawl and after). I guess if they changed Mario, it would give more reason to keep Dr. Mario who would have Mario's old moveset. It probably makes less sense to have more than one Mario on the roster than it does with Link, since those Links are actually different people. But I feel like if they wanted a new moveset for Mario and Luigi, they'd need to find a way to keep the old movesets. I guess they could have both Dr. Mario and Dr. Luigi have the old ones?

I feel like this might be part of the reason they didn't change Ganondorf very much in Brawl and 4, aside from making new animations that better fit the character. They may have felt there were people who already liked the moves in Melee.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #143 on: March 29, 2018, 08:15:31 PM »
Mop’s got it. With any fighting game, you run the risk of changing something too drastically that people will feel alienated. Add Nintendo fanboys/girls into that mix and you can imagine the consequences.

The risk of changing Mario is, with the exception of his Down Special, all of his moves are seeped in tradition and execute wel. He was one of the top tier characters in Smash 4. The only move I could see Cappy replacing would be FLUDD, because the latter has worn out his welcome/everyone apparently hates Sunshine.

I could imagine a drastic rehaul of Link’s moveset, IF the BotW Gear was a full-on replacement costume and the classic look was not an alt. There’s no logical reason BotW Link would have a boomarang or clawshot like classic Link. On the other hand, I think Nintendo risks a lot by disregarding the classic hero’s tunic. While some might say “leave that to Toon Link,” we all know that cat-person hybrid is an abomination and shouldn’t exist.

There’s a lot that COULD happen with this new Smash Bros.. it boggles my mind that, if they chose to announce two characters a week after E3 as it stands with the current roster, they could reach the end of the year without running out. I really wonder how they are going to create the hype train this time.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #144 on: March 29, 2018, 08:40:17 PM »
I just hate clones, and I know an argument can be made for the variations to make them truly not clones, but Luigi's moves just never felt like Luigi.  I would like to see him get 1 or 2 moves that are truly uniquely Luigi.

Mario doesn't need to change.  I guess we could add a cappy powerup. 

I hear you loud and clear about Jigglypuff, though. 

As for Bomberman.  I think I would give him a recovery that is like NES.  A bomb that is dropped and immediately blows up.  This would cause him damage, but allow him to fly.  Since it causes damage you could allow him to do it multiple times in the air.  The riding his animal would be a nice dash attack that he could jump outta mid move and the animal continue on.  Kinda like Wario's motorcycle move.  Which I personally never liked. 

Bomberman needs to be a heavy character that doesn't have good close ranged attacks mostly bomb attacks.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #145 on: March 29, 2018, 10:10:43 PM »
As someone who's mained Luigi in every Smash Bros and the reason I even called myself Luigi Dude in the first place, there's no reason to change Luig's moveset.  Unless you're someone who just spams fire balls all day, Mario and Luigi play completely different.  I'm not just talking about the moves that are entirely different like Mario's Cape and Luigi's Rocket, but even the ones that are similar have major changes.  Take the Up B, both have an uppercut but Mario's is a multi-hit that doesn't punish him as much if you miss, while Luig's is terrible for the most part unless you can get up close where it becomes a great KO move.  A Mario player can use Up B regularly as part of his skill set, while a Luigi player has to save it for when they have an opening.

A good Mario player and good Luigi player have 2 completely different playstyles and strategy's they need to use.  If Luigi's current moveset was to be replaced then I can't just start playing as Mario since the way he plays doesn't come close to what I was doing as Luigi.  This is why I'm always annoyed when people say so called clones need to be removed and replaced by 100% original characters.  Just because 2 characters might share some moves doesn't make them even remotely the same when even the slightest changes to a similar move can make a world of difference for people who actually take the time and master them.

There’s a lot that COULD happen with this new Smash Bros.. it boggles my mind that, if they chose to announce two characters a week after E3 as it stands with the current roster, they could reach the end of the year without running out. I really wonder how they are going to create the hype train this time.

Unlike the previous installments where we got a lot of filler with the Dojo updates, we'll probably have a higher ratio of major reveals.  Almost every night can be another stage and character reveal with gameplay and modes updates as well.  Hell, if we're looking at a game with significant more content then Smash Wii U had they could even have several updates on some nights with a character, stage and gameplay together and not run out.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #146 on: March 30, 2018, 09:41:33 AM »
I could imagine a drastic rehaul of Link’s moveset, IF the BotW Gear was a full-on replacement costume and the classic look was not an alt. There’s no logical reason BotW Link would have a boomarang or clawshot like classic Link. On the other hand, I think Nintendo risks a lot by disregarding the classic hero’s tunic. While some might say “leave that to Toon Link,” we all know that cat-person hybrid is an abomination and shouldn’t exist.

There are boomerangs in BoTW, but you have a point with the clawshot.  There really is no equivalent in that game.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #147 on: March 30, 2018, 10:13:03 AM »
I think the issue with trying to change existing character movesets is that there are people like me who already like Mario and Luigi the way they are (though I didn't like the changes to Luigi in Brawl and after).
I get what you’re saying, and I’d be more inclined to agree if each generation of Super Smash Bros. didn’t feel so different. Even if the moves look the same, they don’t always work the same way anymore. Once the attributes are changed, they’re almost different moves.

I don’t like the idea of changing moves for the hell of it. For a crossover fighting series that takes its roster from other IP, there should be some consideration in how these characters are adapted in subsequent installments as new games in each respective IP comes out. I can get behind replacing moves Sakurai invented for a previous Super Smash Bros. installment because there was no point of reference to one based on the actual games released since. In 1998, sure, Luigi was basically Player 2 Mario/Green Mario in most other games. Since then, Nintendo has really developed his character and given him more to do.

Additionally, these changes could be merely cosmetic. For example, Luigi’s Green Missile could conceivably be altered so he propels himself horizontally with the Poltergust 5000.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 01:24:53 PM by Adrock »

Offline Order.RSS

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #148 on: March 30, 2018, 01:26:24 PM »
Here's another, way less likely, third party curveball character I could see happen: Chase McCain from LEGO City.
Traveller's Tales were one of the few staple developers that continuinally supported the Wii U; Nintendo published Lego City Undercover; it was exclusive to the U for a while; they included it in its Selects budget line; allowed references to Nintendo properties to appear in it; there's a 3DS exclusive prequel; and presumably Nintendo again supported the main game enough for a Switch re-release.

Meanwhile, Lego has very few original characters outside of Lego City Undercover and some of the movies (of which Ninjago bombed, Bionicle is long irrelevant)... I could see them being allowed a character in Smash. In which case Chase McCain is probably the most obvious bet due to his strong connection to Nintendo (The Lego Movie Videogame was just a regular multi-plat).

What if Detective Pikachu is in the new Smash?


100% In favour of this. But then we also need Detective's Assistant Pichu to happen. The Watson to his Sherlock.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #149 on: March 30, 2018, 01:27:15 PM »
I think we can all agree that, if a move were have equal or greater utility than its pre-existing counterpart, we would gladly accept it. Thinks like Bowser’s forward Smash, for example, are not only better than their previous iteration, they also look cool as heck.

I’m all for modifying movesets as it has occurred in the past, but I don’t think Luigi’s moveset needs to be changed just because “it’s too similar,” as others have noted. It should change for greater utility and accuracy.

Luigi already uses the Poltergust in his most recent Final Smash. The only other way I could see it working is as a command grabor his literal grab- the former would be a bit too similar to Kirby and Dedede’s own, the latter would be a genuinely unique tool, as few characters can claim to have a safety net with a wiffed grab.

...I’m talking too much eSports.
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