Topic: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?

[NWR_pap64]

That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.

First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.

Second, what I mean is that some of the FS are a little too over the top and powerful, even for the character. Luigi is an example of this.

Plus, it does feel weird that some of the weaker character have insanely strong attacks while the strong ones get average ones (save for Bowser which is fitting).

And Mikintosh, telling hardcore SSB fans to not take the game seriously is like telling the Pope that God doesn't exist...

Seriously, saying that we shouldn't take SSB seriously because we use Pokeballs is silly. The game may have a sense of humor about the madness going on, but its deep enough that it can be taken seriously as a fighter.

[Dasmos]

I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.

Everyone should have had landmasters.

[DAaaMan64]

Right, and that's exactly the problem. Someone probably did say that it unbalances it, and someone probably just blew it off because they didn't care. I'm convinced that the top priority for a Final Smash move was for it to look cool.

Don't you think it just adds to the random unfairness that items already provide?  I mean, they can be shut off, and for those who want them shut off, they should.  Doesn't this just seen to be a matter of not liking items in serious battles?

[Mikintosh]

That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.

First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.

Second, what I mean is that some of the FS are a little too over the top and powerful, even for the character. Luigi is an example of this.

Plus, it does feel weird that some of the weaker character have insanely strong attacks while the strong ones get average ones (save for Bowser which is fitting).

And Mikintosh, telling hardcore SSB fans to not take the game seriously is like telling the Pope that God doesn't exist...

Seriously, saying that we shouldn't take SSB seriously because we use Pokeballs is silly. The game may have a sense of humor about the madness going on, but its deep enough that it can be taken seriously as a fighter.

I'm still amazed after spending months on Brawl boards that there *are* hardcore Smash Bros. players. Maybe it's because I first picked up the original game when I was only twelve, but I view the whole thing as just fun; anything that reeks of "tourney play" runs counter to that for me. I play the game all the time but no I don't take it seriously; the whole point is fun, and whining about how some character might have a slight advantage over the other is not fun and a waste of energy.

And honestly, I think Luigi's Final Smash is barely as good as Peach's, unless there's an automatic KO side-effect I'm not aware of. Pit's actually causes damage, and crosses the entire stage.

[Svevan]

That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.

First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.

yeah don't take me so seriously bud; the conversation can be retarded and I can respect other people's "tastes" at the same time. not mutually exclusive

[Nick DiMola]

I'm still amazed after spending months on Brawl boards that there *are* hardcore Smash Bros. players. Maybe it's because I first picked up the original game when I was only twelve, but I view the whole thing as just fun; anything that reeks of "tourney play" runs counter to that for me. I play the game all the time but no I don't take it seriously; the whole point is fun, and whining about how some character might have a slight advantage over the other is not fun and a waste of energy.

Well, understand that the game is so open that it allows for many different play types. Some people prefer to play a certain way, and the fun of the game is mastering a player under a certain rule set. Playing the game as a party game is just fine, but not everyone does that, and not everyone finds that way of playing fun.

I think the reason you seem to like Brawl more (than Melee) is because of that attitude towards the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. My play style (which is more "serious" as you put it) seems to not really agree with Brawl. Melee just feels like a better fit because it better caters to that play style. But trust me, through all the bitching, I still think Brawl is phenomenal and I have been up playing it non stop.

I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.

Everyone should have had landmasters.

EXACTLY!

[Ceric]

I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.

Three Land Masters.

I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.


This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.

Not sure if I buy that. Just because a game has been in dev for a long time doesn't mean they really balanced everything out very well. Especially with the FSs. The Smash Ball can be turned off, so balance isn't a huge issue with the Final Smashes; balance goes right out the window anyway when you turn any item on. I would agree with your sentiment if it was a core move that didn't require an item to perform it.

I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.

There is no way it went through all of that development and no one said "hey Smash Balls are way out of balance!", I'm sure they did it on purpose, whether they cared if it unbalances the roster or not.

[DAaaMan64]

I think the reason you seem to like Brawl more (than Melee) is because of that attitude towards the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. My play style (which is more "serious" as you put it) seems to not really agree with Brawl. Melee just feels like a better fit because it better caters to that play style. But trust me, through all the bitching, I still think Brawl is phenomenal and I have been up playing it non stop.

Serious battles?  Oh trust me, Melee was all serious battles after I unlocked everything.  Once I unlocked everything it was all Final Destination and The Temple of Time with no items for everything. LOL

[Mashiro]

Just to echo Mr. Jacks statements, I know I have been very harsh on the game.

In fact I really haven't even posted on these forums this much in well, a very long time and all I have been doing is knocking the game.

Don't get me wrong, Brawl is still a lot of fun but I think that's because well . . . it's Smash Bros. The formula of fun for the multiplayer battles has always been there in one way shape or form.

It's the added stuff (or lack there for of) that makes me upset.

This isn't to say I don't enjoy playing the game it just feels like a lot of missed opportunities are glaring me right in the face as I play over Melee.

I just hope Nintendo releases another Smash! either by the time their next system comes out or i the same life span of the Wii but I doub't that'll happen.

[vudu]

I'm going to start by saying so far, Melee was far more fun for me. I found myself playing it every waking minute when it was first released and that enjoyment of playing lasted long after I had fully cleared the game.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe you were just in a different place when Melee came out?  You were probably 17 when Melee came out.  Chances are you were still living at home, going to high school, and had plenty of access to friends who wanted to play multiplayer.  Now you're 23, you have a job, and likely don't have nearly as many opportunities to get together with friends to play video games.  You can't blame Nintendo for changes in your lifestyle.

I was 21 when Melee came out. I logged over 300 hours into the game within the first 2 years (mostly multiplayer).  Since then, I've maybe put 20 hours into it.  Tops.  **** happened, I grew up, and I don't have time to play games as much.  Multiplayer is even more rare, because we need to work it around all our schedules, which isn't easy, especially because we don't live in the same city anymore.  I'll be lucky to sink 50 hours into Brawl in the next five years.

You prefer Melee because you got to play it a lot more the way it was meant to be played (i.e. with friends).  Perhaps I'm way off here, but I'm guessing you haven't had the chance to play much multiplayer in the past five days.  Keep an open mind and try to get your buddies over for a Saturday night and play the game the right way.

[Mashiro]

Actually I picked up Brawl at the midnight launch, played a little before I had to sleep for work the next morning. That night a group of my friends from work and I got together and played multiplayer for about 4 hours or so. Most of the SSE I played through with a friend and the other night I played multiplayer with a friend once again.

So the vast majority of my time was played in multiplayer at this point. And as I've said before it's fun, I don't enjoy it as much as Melee but it is fun none the less.

[Mikintosh]

I'm still amazed after spending months on Brawl boards that there *are* hardcore Smash Bros. players. Maybe it's because I first picked up the original game when I was only twelve, but I view the whole thing as just fun; anything that reeks of "tourney play" runs counter to that for me. I play the game all the time but no I don't take it seriously; the whole point is fun, and whining about how some character might have a slight advantage over the other is not fun and a waste of energy.

Well, understand that the game is so open that it allows for many different play types. Some people prefer to play a certain way, and the fun of the game is mastering a player under a certain rule set. Playing the game as a party game is just fine, but not everyone does that, and not everyone finds that way of playing fun.

I think the reason you seem to like Brawl more (than Melee) is because of that attitude towards the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. My play style (which is more "serious" as you put it) seems to not really agree with Brawl. Melee just feels like a better fit because it better caters to that play style. But trust me, through all the bitching, I still think Brawl is phenomenal and I have been up playing it non stop.

Well, I'm not entirely unserious (I just happen to play mostly against those "party"-type players), and I still don't see why Brawl doesn't match up to Melee in that respect. I think the roster's way more balanced and again, I don't see any one Final Smash outweighing the others in effectiveness.

[Dirk Temporo]

I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!

I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?

Seconded. Dedede's final smash is almost useless. It's very rare that I ever KO anybody with it or even inflict a significant amount of damage with it. And Lucario's final smash is awesome for heavy characters, but literally useless for anyone that can jump high enough to get over him, because it moves so slow. Can't complain about Ganondorf or Marth though.

[darknight06]

Brawl by far.   I hated the speed of Melee and missed the more tactical pacing of the original.  This one is a solid enough compromise.  The story mode is way better.  The balance is better.  I can't even play Melee anymore without it feeling just plain wrong.

[NWR_pap64]

That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.

First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.

yeah don't take me so seriously bud; the conversation can be retarded and I can respect other people's "tastes" at the same time. not mutually exclusive

OK, you are retarded...But don't take me so seriously. I can respect you as a person and STILL think you are a retard. Why do you think I get along with so many people?

[Spak-Spang]

I have really enjoyed my time with Brawl.  Everything feels much more balanced, and much better thought out.  I enjoy Brawl better than Melee...even though I think I enjoyed Melee's Adventure and Classic Mode much more.

[Ceric]

I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!

I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?

Seconded. Dedede's final smash is almost useless. It's very rare that I ever KO anybody with it or even inflict a significant amount of damage with it. And Lucario's final smash is awesome for heavy characters, but literally useless for anyone that can jump high enough to get over him, because it moves so slow. Can't complain about Ganondorf or Marth though.

Seriously?  I've had pretty good luck with Dedede's final smash.  Also Lucario you have to pick someone to initially go for and then try to sweep for other.   I do well with his.  So far my worst final smash is the Landmaster and the Ice Climbers.

[Spak-Spang]

I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!

I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?

Seconded. Dedede's final smash is almost useless. It's very rare that I ever KO anybody with it or even inflict a significant amount of damage with it. And Lucario's final smash is awesome for heavy characters, but literally useless for anyone that can jump high enough to get over him, because it moves so slow. Can't complain about Ganondorf or Marth though.

Seriously?  I've had pretty good luck with Dedede's final smash.  Also Lucario you have to pick someone to initially go for and then try to sweep for other.   I do well with his.  So far my worst final smash is the Landmaster and the Ice Climbers.

I have had very poor luck with Luigi's Final Smash, so I guess to each his own.  There are some final smashes that seem less than useful and some that seem over powering...but usually taken into the context of the character you are playing as it seems to balance out. 

[Mashiro]

The worst  final smash award goes to jigglypuff unless I am missing something to her final smash . . .

[NWR_insanolord]

The worst  final smash award goes to jigglypuff unless I am missing something to her final smash . . .

It's very effective on small stages. I've been KOed several times on Smashville by it. Otherwise it sucks.

[Gylldas]

The worst  final smash award goes to jigglypuff unless I am missing something to her final smash . . .

It's very effective on small stages. I've been KOed several times on Smashville by it. Otherwise it sucks.

Part of the strategy is positioning too on larger stages.  It also works well on the Ice Climbers stage as I pulled an upset victory when I KO'ed everyone with it last second.   But I digress.

I think each version has it's own quirks but overall I've enjoyed brawl much more.  Not expecting much out of the Subspace Emissary I found myself having fun with it.  IMO it's leaps and bounds better then the Adventure mode in Melee.  One thing I miss in Classic mode though is the Race to the Finish stage.

[Nick DiMola]

I wanted to add a bit more to this thread after going back and playing some Melee after playing a couple solid weeks of Brawl. Brawl presentation wise, and graphically is infinitely better looking. The Melee roster feels REALLY small now after playing Brawl which is disheartening, and the speed of Melee is very clearly about 1.5 to twice that of Brawl.

I also feel even more strongly now than I did before, Melee's core gameplay just feels better. Moving and attacking is so much more fluid, probably as a result of the speed and the gravity increases. Doing fluid quick combos is much more satisfying to me than having to plod around to catch my enemy and attack after each time I smash them.

I know the consensus is that Brawl is better, and I agree on just about all accounts, except for the feel of the game. If Brawl would've kept the same gravity and speed as Melee, Brawl would've easily surpassed Melee in every imaginable way. I will hold out hope that an Action Replay comes out for the Wii with some hacks to alter these attributes of the game, because I would be much happier with the total package if this was the case.

[Spak-Spang]

Mr. Jack, I find your comments interesting.  Mostly, because many people have praised the slower feel of Brawl over Melee.

I have been playing Brawl with a classic controller, and I can tell you that control is just not as good as the Gamecube controller...either that or Brawl just isn't as tight as Melee.  I have found Brawl I have accidentally done special attacks I didn't want to...and dodging is much more difficult than I remember in Melee, which seemed to allow you to much easier perform dodges, and shielding in general.  The same is true with throws in Brawl.  I find performing throws much more difficult than in Melee.  And this might be because of the controller I am using, but if it is not, then that is the only complaint I have with Brawl. 

The controls in general are not as tight as Melee.  But I love the speed slow down...even if it makes some characters harder to use, it brings I think a balance better.

[Ceric]

I don't know if anyone else has notice this yet but in Brawl each character has a different level of difficulty in regards to Dodging, Smashes, Charged Smashes, and a few other miscellaneous things of that nature.  It could just be me though.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

No, Brawl contains too many useless animation frames which delay the effects of our intended actions, while Melee had cut-to-chase no-nonsense action timing (having to click L/R buttons all the way down on GCN controllers -- that's a serious delay).

This is the result of letting RPG makers pack their useless fluff into a Nintendo action game.