Post by: gypsyOtoko on July 08, 2009, 12:58:40 AM
So, I moved in with one of my friends the other day. Naturally the first thing I did after getting my bed set up was hook up the Wii to his awesome Sony Bravia (TM) television.
Having it hooked up and ready to go, I was thinking about putting some more time into Wii Sports Resort and putting out some more impressions for our readers. However, I soon found out that my roommate used to play a lot of Mario Kart back in the day, so in no time we had that familiar Mario Kart music blasting from the TV speakers.
Well, I expect you guys all know how it goes - you put Mario Kart in, and the next thing you know you've been racing against your friends and the computer for five hours and haven't moved from the spot you settled in to after selecting the Wii Disc Channel.
While I was playing the game, I thought to myself, "The track designs for Mario Kart Wii are pretty solid. Definitely up there with some of the best." Personally, my favorite Mario Kart tracks are found in Mario Kart DS. What really makes me enjoy the DS tracks in Mario Kart DS is the fact that its clear their designers *actually played Mario at some point*. What I'm getting at is that a lot of those tracks have good, solid references to past Mario games.
My favorite track, hands down, is the one on Bowser's Airship. First and foremost, IT'S ON BOWSER'S FREAKIN' AIRSHIP. I've beaten SMB3 more times than most games I've owned, so having that imagery pop up in Mario Kart DS really makes it feel authentic - like a Mario game.
On the other end of the spectrum is- Mario Kart Double Dash. Seriously, who in God's name thought it would be really Mario-like to throw in a 'Baby Theme Park' track? Where, in any of the Mario games, was there a Mario theme park? Was it Yoshi's Island? Was that some special level I never got to? (Pah - preposterous. I've seen every level there is to see in that series.)
And, while it may seem like sacrilege to some, by the logic I've stated above, I'm also not a big fan of the N64 tracks. Moo Moo Farm? Sure, if it was Zelda Kart maybe I could see them putting in a Lon Lon Ranch track, but I have yet to see a cow in a Mario platformer.
Anyhow, having thought of this, I just wanted to get opinions from everyone else. What order do you guys all rate the Mario Kart games in term of track design? What do base your opinions on? Is there anything in particular that you like about a certain track?
Finally - just for the heck of it, I'm posting a picture of a new drink that was recently released in Japan - Shiso Pepsi. I found this stuff at the convenience store and thought 'Wait... do what now?'. I thought you guys might enjoy seeing some of the zaniness that makes this country so magical.
OH, and to my fellow Americans - Happy Belated Independence Day. Since I was nowhere near a grill on the fourth, I hope you all had a burger and a dog for me.
M
Post by: Enner on July 08, 2009, 02:57:39 AM
Post by: Mop it up on July 08, 2009, 03:09:20 AM
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Kart Double Dash!!
Mario Kart 64
Mario Kart Advance
Super Mario Kart
Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart Double Dash!! have the most inspired tracks with unique elements like springy mushrooms, cannons, etc. Mario Kart 64 was alright, but it's obvious it was their first foray into the third dimension as a lot of tracks are still fairly flat. Mario Kart Advance and Super Mario Kart are both pretty dull and boring.
I've never played the DS Mario Kart so I have just the 4-track sample in Mario Kart Wii to judge it. Delfino Square is pretty fun, I enjoy that one. Desert Hills might be good if it didn't have so many places to take shortcuts with mushrooms. Peach Gardens is flat and uneventful, and Yoshi Falls is the absolute worst track I have ever seen.
In the case of Mario Kart Wii, most of the retro tracks are pretty bland and boring, especially because of the new physics.
Post by: broodwars on July 08, 2009, 03:11:22 AM
As for Mario Kart DS, easily my favorite levels are Bowser's Airship and Waluigi Pinball. I was very surprised when neither of those tracks (if I remember right) made it into Mario Kart Wii. Well, I guess Nintendo had to save some good levels for the next Mario Kart, because heaven forbid they actually make a Mario Kart game with 32 new and creative tracks.
Anyone else notice a distinct lack of true shortcuts in these latest Mario Karts, though? I remember in Mario Kart 64 that it was a pretty damn big deal if you got a mushroom when you were on that first Koopa Beach stage, because you could just shoot yourself into a huge shortcut off that big ramp with it. You don't see that anymore, as it's instead a lot of little shortcuts for shaving off a few seconds here and there.
Post by: Mop it up on July 08, 2009, 03:16:31 AM
Anyone else notice a distinct lack of true shortcuts in these latest Mario Karts, though? I remember in Mario Kart 64 that it was a pretty damn big deal if you got a mushroom when you were on that first Koopa Beach stage, because you could just shoot yourself into a huge shortcut off that big ramp with it. You don't see that anymore, as it's instead a lot of little shortcuts for shaving off a few seconds here and there.Perhaps they wanted to make it a bit more fair?
Post by: broodwars on July 08, 2009, 03:26:44 AM
Anyone else notice a distinct lack of true shortcuts in these latest Mario Karts, though? I remember in Mario Kart 64 that it was a pretty damn big deal if you got a mushroom when you were on that first Koopa Beach stage, because you could just shoot yourself into a huge shortcut off that big ramp with it. You don't see that anymore, as it's instead a lot of little shortcuts for shaving off a few seconds here and there.Perhaps they wanted to make it a bit more fair?
Considering the old-style shortcuts could even better allow people in the back of the pack to catch up to those ahead of them, I don't really buy that. That may justify the horror that is the Blue Shell, but shortcuts? No, that just doesn't sound right.
Post by: Mop it up on July 08, 2009, 03:32:11 AM
Post by: broodwars on July 08, 2009, 03:33:47 AM
Being able to skip half the track with a mushroom is way more cheap than the blue shell or bullet ever will be. Mushrooms are far more common and appear in the top ranks, that's too much ground to allow the second-place person to gain.
Hmm...perhaps. It just makes it feel in the modern Mario Kart games that there's no point to exploring the tracks because there's little to nothing to actually find. I miss that aspect of Mario Kart.
Besides, those shortcuts often had a huge risk/reward aspect to them. If you pulled them off, they helped you a lot but if you screwed them up they really hurt you. That's what I thought balanced it out.
Post by: gypsyOtoko on July 08, 2009, 06:28:23 AM
@Enner, Broodwar: I will concede that the Baby Park track is indeed pretty fun since it's simple and allows for some pretty crazy fighting with items. And, as Broodwar pointed out, there was indeed a theme park in Mario Sunshine! I totally forgot about that. For some reason I've kinda blocked out memories of that game. I guess since I'm an old fart it's the retro style stages with the scat-flavored SMB theme that I remember the best.
@Broodwarss, Mop_It_Up: Everyone is certain allowed to have their own opinion regarding short cuts. I myself enjoy the idea of short cuts because it's one of those things where if you know the game really well, you can take advantage of it. I, myself, wouldn't consider that cheap because you have to know what you're doing to pull that off. But again, everyone's allowed to think differently. ^^
Blue shells on the other hand are the bane of my existence. Little bastards. >_<; Though, to be fair, they really mix it up. It's just the biggest pain when you're near the finish line and then BOOM, you're dropped to last place because of a last minute blue shell.
Post by: RABicle on July 08, 2009, 07:04:19 AM
FAR AND AWAY the most bizarre Mario Kart tracks with nothing to do with the games were produced from Super Circuit. I mean let's see. Cloud Garden? Ribbon Road? I'm naming these off my head here. I recall one track was set ina land full of cheese.
Post by: GK on July 08, 2009, 07:17:44 AM
My second if we're going solely by track design has to be Mario Kart DS. Although most of my favorite tracks aren't available on wi-fi(was really hoping MKWii would bring THOSE back to fix this), Delfino Square's tight turns between those houses rock & they were a snaker's kryptonite on DS. Same could be said about Peach Garden's turns.
Bronze goes out to Mario Kart Wii. Anyone here that's raced with me on wi-fi probably already have an idea on what are my favorites.
Then there's Mario Kart: Double Dash!! As poorly as I race on Mushroom City, I always want to go back. Odd eh?
After that it's Mario Kart 64. I mean come on, Yoshi Valley had you racing through a maze. Win points.
Mario Kart Super Circuit's tracks were eh ok I guess. Not all that memorable though.
Post by: AV on July 08, 2009, 12:43:29 PM
and those odd pictures of family guy and girls that have nothing in common with the topic ?
Post by: King of Twitch on July 08, 2009, 02:02:28 PM
Post by: Mop it up on July 08, 2009, 08:21:26 PM
Blue shells on the other hand are the bane of my existence. Little bastards. >_<; Though, to be fair, they really mix it up. It's just the biggest pain when you're near the finish line and then BOOM, you're dropped to last place because of a last minute blue shell.Unfortunately the blue shell is a necessary evil. With the amount of items flying around it isn't so difficult for someone to escape from the pack and zoom so far ahead as to be uncatchable. The blue shell prevents that from happening.
I'm more annoyed when I get a blue shell than I am when I get hit by one, because it doesn't often help the person who used it. Mario Kart 64 has the best blue shell because it has a chance of hitting others on its way to first, and it can also be dragged along to block an unlimited number of shells.
Post by: yoshi1001 on July 08, 2009, 08:50:24 PM
Unfortunately the blue shell is a necessary evil. With the amount of items flying around it isn't so difficult for someone to escape from the pack and zoom so far ahead as to be uncatchable. The blue shell prevents that from happening.
That is one failing of Diddy Kong Racing. If the CPUs don't do a good job competing, you can be left in an unwinnable position for those Silver Coin Challenges.
The "2-D" Mario Karts never had the greatest track designs, even when translated to 3-D in DS and Wii, though they seemed great backin the day.
Post by: broodwars on July 08, 2009, 11:52:52 PM
Blue shells on the other hand are the bane of my existence. Little bastards. >_<; Though, to be fair, they really mix it up. It's just the biggest pain when you're near the finish line and then BOOM, you're dropped to last place because of a last minute blue shell.Unfortunately the blue shell is a necessary evil. With the amount of items flying around it isn't so difficult for someone to escape from the pack and zoom so far ahead as to be uncatchable. The blue shell prevents that from happening.
I'm more annoyed when I get a blue shell than I am when I get hit by one, because it doesn't often help the person who used it. Mario Kart 64 has the best blue shell because it has a chance of hitting others on its way to first, and it can also be dragged along to block an unlimited number of shells.
Indeed, I didn't mind the Blue Shell all that much until they decided to make it hover over the track until it reached the leader and then drop and explode with a pretty massive blast radius. You could at least theoretically defend against the Blue Shell in MK64 with a properly timed Green or Red Shell release.
Post by: UncleBob on July 09, 2009, 01:16:57 AM
Post by: BwrJim! on July 09, 2009, 01:43:53 AM
Mario Kart Wii and DS are tied in the same place for me. I do miss the bowser ship the most and the ship cruiser too, and the pinball..
Then Mario Kart 64, loved that game.. (also my first becuase frankly, the flat levels suck a$$ in my opinion. they are easy and so on and just plain)
Then Mario Kart DD, my wife and me on the same kart.. better watch it... DD had great levels too ya know.. like DK mountain.
Levels I miss.. Cocoa from MK64.. any stage where giant cereal falls down to destroy.. oh so schweet.
sooooo, if ya wanna race.. better watch it on the curves.. i can rip em up.
Favorite Shortcut thats not a glitch in MK Wii? i cant rememebr the level, but its full of dirt and you can blast over the lake or whatever and then blast again off of an island to cut off a bunch of space.. very risky though for me. but i agree, the risk is balanced. rememeber the RR in 64 right at the start.. hit it, great miss it.. not so great.
Post by: TheBlackCat on July 09, 2009, 04:00:34 PM
My ranking would probably be:
Wii
GC
SNES
N64
As for levels that are re-made for each game, may favorites are:
Bowser's castle: Wii
Peach's castle/mario raceway: N64
Luigi circuit: GC
Rainbow road: GC
Beach: SNES
Highway: Wii
I do think the original still had the best battle mode courses, though. Although the Wii's new battle mode courses are probably the second best.
As for the blue shell, I don't like weapons where there is no possibility of escape. Every weapon should have some slim chance of being avoiding or minimized. For instance if you hit the breaks at the exact right moment the blue shell might miss you. The blue shell is just too powerful of a weapon as it is currently set up. That is why I like the new POW weapon, if you are good enough and careful you can largely dodge it (although you still lose your items), but doing so is risky.
I do like long shortcuts, but only if they are difficult and/or risky to carry out. For instance if they require perfectly timing a jump or power slide to avoid a pit like in the Wii/SNES ghost house or the GC bowser's castle, require a particular item to get through like a mushroom to boost over dirt or a pit, or are just risky like the other SNES ghost house (which had a one tile-wide path bypassing half the level but had a pit on either side the entire way) or the Wii DK skiing level (where you can power slide over a pit to skip a turn). It can't be too cheap, it should require skill and/or luck to pull it off.
Post by: GK on July 09, 2009, 04:37:39 PM
Post by: RABicle on July 12, 2009, 02:47:37 AM
Post by: GK on July 12, 2009, 08:31:09 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on July 12, 2009, 01:54:51 PM
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 12, 2009, 01:59:09 PM
who is gypsyOtoko?He is the Japan Corespondent.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 12, 2009, 02:43:27 PM
I miss how powerful the Mushroom boost used to be. I swear, the boost becomes less & less noticeable with every new game. When combined with the bumpers you went soaring, sometimes off course completely in SMK
I feel like the green shells have been pretty shitty since the N64 game. Back when it was much more possible to strategically aim them. Maybe thats just me.
Post by: broodwars on July 12, 2009, 02:56:08 PM
I miss how powerful the Mushroom boost used to be. I swear, the boost becomes less & less noticeable with every new game. When combined with the bumpers you went soaring, sometimes off course completely in SMK
I feel like the green shells have been pretty ****ty since the N64 game. Back when it was much more possible to strategically aim them. Maybe thats just me.
Yeah, do you guys remember when you could actually fire a green/red shell behind you as well as in front of you? I forget how it worked in Mario Kart Wii, but they suddenly switched to "planting" those shells as mines on the track rather than firing them straight behind you. That always struck me as lame, because you'd have to be pretty dense to run over one of those things most of the time unless your opponent really did just time and place it that well.
Post by: GK on July 13, 2009, 12:38:13 AM
I miss how powerful the Mushroom boost used to be. I swear, the boost becomes less & less noticeable with every new game. When combined with the bumpers you went soaring, sometimes off course completely in SMK
I feel like the green shells have been pretty shitty since the N64 game. Back when it was much more possible to strategically aim them. Maybe thats just me.
I totally agree. They're more useful for red shell defense than anything else in Wii. Back on SNES not only I could actually hit them directly, in battle mode I could nail shots off the walls intentionally. In Wii I think I've hit myself with my own green shells more times than I've hit any other driver.
Post by: broodwars on July 13, 2009, 12:50:14 AM
Post by: Dasmos on July 13, 2009, 10:06:32 AM
(MK Wii's arenas are way too big, plus you have to play in teams).
What? How can you say that about the Wii courses then praise the 64 ones. The 64 courses were massive, and they were boring. I have said it time and time again, Mario Kart 64 was a horrible game that was a merely showcase for the 64's horsepower. It failed though, sure the course were big, but they were all just boring and empty stretches of track.
The battle mode just made this shortcoming even more obvious. It took a good half an hour to see another opponent in the battle.
Quote
Back in Mario Kart 64, my friends and I would game for hours just in the Block Fort arena.
So you only managed to finish three rounds then?
Post by: GK on July 13, 2009, 01:45:55 PM
Hmm I didn't think the N64 battle courses were all that bad but then again at the time I also had Diddy Kong Racing...
Post by: Peachylala on July 17, 2009, 01:26:02 AM
(MK Wii's arenas are way too big, plus you have to play in teams).Multiplayer options say hi.
I faced off with my brother, one vs. one, a week or so ago.
Now, back on topic... before anymore derailing, the best Mario Kart tracks are in my opinion:
Tied: Mario Kart: Double Dash/Wii
2nd: Mario Kart DS
I couldn’t give two shits about the rest of the other MK games because, to me, they haven’t aged well a single bit. Mario Kart 64 was awesome… when I was ten, but after experiencing the greatness of Double Dash, I wouldn’t go back. And the battle grounds are too large? I thought they were a nice size, and playing chicken while throwing multiple Bom-Ombs is the greatest “HOLY **** NO” moment Nintendo has ever given me in a multiplayer game.
Second to Melee.
Post by: Stratos on July 18, 2009, 02:34:15 PM
You're having a go at Daisy Cruiser and Baby Theme Park?
FAR AND AWAY the most bizarre Mario Kart tracks with nothing to do with the games were produced from Super Circuit. I mean let's see. Cloud Garden? Ribbon Road? I'm naming these off my head here. I recall one track was set ina land full of cheese.
What about Super Mario Brothers 3 with the sky world? And don't forget the cloud kingdom in Super Mario RPG. How's that for MK track references?
@True Blue
You mean you can turn teams off in Wii multiplayer? What about in the online arena?
Post by: Mop it up on July 18, 2009, 02:57:18 PM
@True BlueYou can't turn off the teams, I'm sure what True Blue meant is that you can disable the CPU opponents so that you can still have a 1-vs.-1.
You mean you can turn teams off in Wii multiplayer? What about in the online arena?
Post by: Stratos on July 18, 2009, 02:58:47 PM
Post by: Halbred on August 18, 2009, 09:22:38 PM
Post by: Mop it up on August 18, 2009, 09:31:19 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on August 18, 2009, 09:47:58 PM
Anyways, I liked the N64 battle modes, partly because of the ability for the third and fourth player to become bombs once they lose. I loved the block fort, and the reason why I like Double Decker over, say, Luigi's mansion, is that there were more pathways to take, more ways to hide, and more ways to scheme. Anyways, to me, Mario Kart 64's tracks all seemed characteristic of their environment, when you drove on the beach, it felt like you were driving on a beach, not a racetrack. Double Dash lost that, and then Mario Kart DS brought it back. The Wii version is in the middle, there, not really good or bad.
That's my two cents, at least.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 18, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
Post by: Mop it up on August 18, 2009, 10:02:26 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 18, 2009, 10:11:10 PM
Sorry.
Edit: More:
Night time city level DD to Night time city level Wii. Wii version wins.
Desert Level DD to Desert Level Wii. Wii version wins.
Daisy Cruiser to Coconut Mall (similar layouts). Wii version wins.
Post by: Mop it up on August 18, 2009, 10:15:30 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 18, 2009, 10:21:34 PM
But as it stands, the DD tracks are EMPTY and DEPRESSING compared to Wii's.
Post by: Mop it up on August 18, 2009, 10:24:22 PM
And the Wii models are simply the DD models with the shine added.That isn't true, they are smaller and have less polygons.
It doesn't really matter though, I disagree with you and that's that.
Post by: BwrJim! on August 20, 2009, 10:02:34 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 21, 2009, 02:00:37 AM
Post by: D_Average on September 23, 2009, 10:28:58 PM
My fav is probably Wario Stadium.
Post by: King of Twitch on September 23, 2009, 10:35:16 PM
Post by: Mop it up on September 23, 2009, 10:57:23 PM
I can't stand the Wii volcano one.I think that is a pretty neat track, I like how pieces break away every lap. I just hate it whenever somebody cheats and uses the 10-second lap glitch.
Worst track has got to be Yoshi Fails from DS/Wii. It's short, large, and hazardous, a recipe for disaster. All of the ones in Mario Kart Wii from the SNES and GBA games are flat, dull, and boring as well.
Post by: vudu on September 24, 2009, 01:45:18 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 24, 2009, 02:52:55 PM
Post by: D_Average on September 25, 2009, 01:59:08 AM
Post by: broodwars on September 25, 2009, 03:20:12 PM
Hate: Baby Mario & Luigi's incredibly boring track in Doubledash.
Post by: Mop it up on September 25, 2009, 07:36:22 PM
Hate: Baby Mario & Luigi's incredibly boring track in Doubledash.I agree, I think that is the worst track in Mario Kart history.
Wow. I love Yoshi's falls! Its scenery makes me happy on the inside, and its basically the mario kart version of Nascar. Who can make the best line.No, it is more like "Who can get a Starman and plow through everyone at the finish line?"
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 25, 2009, 07:40:35 PM
Post by: broodwars on September 25, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
Baby Park was designed for 5 or more laps and a high frequency of Bowser Shells. For gamers to not know that is just a general failure in imagination among so-called Nintendo fans.
When the players have to make a track interesting, it's just not well-designed.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 25, 2009, 07:51:47 PM
Baby Park was designed for 5 or more laps and a high frequency of Bowser Shells. For gamers to not know that is just a general failure in imagination among so-called Nintendo fans.
When the players have to make a track interesting, it's just not well-designed.
I agree with this. One of my favorite tracks in MK: Wii is the one where you go underwater (forgot the name).
Post by: Mop it up on September 25, 2009, 07:53:15 PM
I agree with this. One of my favorite tracks in MK: Wii is the one where you go underwater (forgot the name).Koopa Cape. I love that track, I choose it all of the time on Wi-Fi.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 25, 2009, 08:38:35 PM
Baby Park was designed for 5 or more laps and a high frequency of Bowser Shells. For gamers to not know that is just a general failure in imagination among so-called Nintendo fans.
When the players have to make a track interesting, it's just not well-designed.
Excuse me for exercising OPTIONS. It's some kind of polar opposite to Smash players turning off items.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 25, 2009, 08:49:50 PM
Post by: broodwars on September 25, 2009, 10:06:15 PM
Baby Park was designed for 5 or more laps and a high frequency of Bowser Shells. For gamers to not know that is just a general failure in imagination among so-called Nintendo fans.
When the players have to make a track interesting, it's just not well-designed.
Excuse me for exercising OPTIONS. It's some kind of polar opposite to Smash players turning off items.
Hey, if you get a kick out of that track using those settings, more power to you. Just don't deride other players for pointing out that it's not the player's job to do the game designer's job for them.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 25, 2009, 10:25:31 PM
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 25, 2009, 11:25:11 PM
Post by: GK on September 26, 2009, 12:55:41 AM
I actually like Baby Park. Zero shortcuts to take advantage of. It's all about avoiding the liter of items everywhere while trying to maintain top speed.
Post by: Halbred on October 01, 2009, 02:44:46 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 01, 2009, 02:48:23 PM
Post by: Mop it up on October 01, 2009, 05:03:29 PM
I'm actually seriously considering re-purchasing the game. I remember it fondly. Prehistoric Park, of course. Prehistoric Park.If you mean Mario Kart: Double Dash!! then I'd say go for it. It still holds up today.
Post by: Halbred on October 01, 2009, 07:15:31 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 01, 2009, 07:28:51 PM
Post by: Halbred on October 01, 2009, 07:41:21 PM
Post by: Mop it up on October 01, 2009, 11:12:59 PM
Yes, the first two Turoks were pretty awesome. Hard as hell, but awesome.No love for Turok: Rage Wars? I've always thought that was a pretty good multiplayer-focused shooter. The weapons were varied but still balanced, and although the stages were kind of small they had some interesting and well thought-out designs.
Post by: ThomasO on October 02, 2009, 10:06:02 AM
And the Wii models are simply the DD models with the shine added.That was the first thing I noticed when I saw the character select screen. All the characters that were present in DD sported the same exact "I've been chosen" pose. I suppose the graphics were compromised in favor of lag-less online play. The only thing disappointing compared to DD is that MKWii's game framefate is so much lower when three or more players are involved in local play (even when all the computer players are removed), or when two players go online together.
Post by: Mop it up on October 02, 2009, 12:43:29 PM
The only thing disappointing compared to DD is that MKWii's game framefate is so much lower when three or more players are involved in local play (even when all the computer players are removed), or when two players go online together.Tell me about it, I really hate that. I thought choppy framerates died off with the Nintendo 64. I think Mario Kart Wii is just a low-budget game, probably because it includes the "free" Wii Wheel accessory.
