Topic: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread

[Invincible Donkey Kong]

I'm starting to wonder if there is more of a reason this game wasn't released in North America than simply it being unpopular...

No, the reason is to spite the pseudo-terrorist Starmen.net and all the other psychotic Earthbound fans out there.  Maybe if they chilled out then you'd have it.  Or maybe not.  Yeah, most likely not. 

[Armak88]

One thing that I noticed almost immediately was that the game had some cursing in it. There was never any swearing in Earthbound, and I doubt any Nintendo overseen translation would allow swearing in Mother 3 so I'm sure this fan translation would differ from an official one in other ways that are similar to that.

[Jonnyboy117]

I can only assume that the original Japanese text has (their version of) cursing, and the localization group tried to translate those parts literally. Based on what I've read about the localization effort, it seems unlikely they would add disparate elements like that. But I do agree that a Treehouse localization would probably omit or reduce the strength of any such language.

[Kytim89]

Will this game ever come out on virtual console?

[broodwars]

Will this game ever come out on virtual console?

On the Japanese 3DS store (assuming there is one)?  Sure.  Sadly, Nintendo has shown in the past that there isn't a chance in hell of this game hitting any form of US Virtual Console.  See: Earthbound.

[Mop it up]

It's definitely obvious that it's a fan translation, in both content and style. I've noticed quite a few grammatical errors that probably wouldn't be present in a professional translation. And yeah, there's absolutely no way any trace of the casual swearing or that scene Vudu transcribed would be in an official release. I mean, things that Nintendo changed in the previous two games include removing the cigarette from Smokey the Crow, attaching a ball on the conical hoods of the insane cultists so they appear less like the KKK, and putting pajamas on a naked Ness. Okay, so that last one makes sense, but still, they've changed some very minor stuff.

[MegaByte]

Funny thing is, the US censoring actually found its way back into the GBA version, even though the first game was ultimately never released,  meaning that the localization was being handled at least partly by the Japanese team.

[adadad]

Just finished chapter 1 last night and was wondering/hoping, do the Magypsies play a large role in the story? They seem funny and they appeal on a purely geek level since they're named after the musical modes.

[vudu]

Just finished chapter 1 last night and was wondering/hoping, do the Magypsies play a large role in the story? They seem funny and they appeal on a purely geek level since they're named after the musical modes.

They pop up once more before the end of chapter 4.  I can't say anything about the later chapters because I haven't reached that point yet.

[noname2200]

Just finished chapter 1 last night and was wondering/hoping, do the Magypsies play a large role in the story? They seem funny and they appeal on a purely geek level since they're named after the musical modes.

Yes, they play a very big role.   They also creep me out, although I'm strangely fond of the seventh one.

[Yankee]

I'm currently in the middle of chapter 2. One of the biggest things that has jumped out at me while I have been playing it is that the humor is a lot less subtle than I remember it being in Earthbound. It seems like Mother 3 delivers a lot of it through dialog instead of the world itself, which I guess makes sense considering the increased role of the story in this game.

I think that most of the impact of the mother's death came from the way that it was delivered. The title of the chapter foreshadowed someone's death, and when they only found Lucas and Claus it was basically a done deal. But the way you got the news was shocking. It's like:


"well the good news is that I found this awesome new weapon you can use."
"alright."
"Oh, and it was sticking out of your wife's bleeding chest"
"WTF"


Also, so far I am not terribly fond of the battle system, just because it is lacking a lot of complexity up to this point. It seems to just be boiling down to attack, attack, eat beef jerky, and attack. The whole rhythm thing is not explained well at all either and so far I have only been able to do 2 hit combos out of luck. I am sure this aspect will get better, seeing how chapter 2 starts making special moves necessary to beat certain enemies and it is also pretty early in the game.

[Stratos]

Funny thing is, the US censoring actually found its way back into the GBA version, even though the first game was ultimately never released,  meaning that the localization was being handled at least partly by the Japanese team.

I recall reading that Nintendo requires the original team to have a hand in the localization process. They do a lot more than translating including adding extra bonuses and tweaks. It's one of the reasons games can take a long time coming from Japan to the West. In some cases it's almost like the English version is the "director's cut" edition. I wouldn't be surprised if that was why there was such a clash about Fatal Frame 4. Tecmo had already reassigned the team to a new project so they wouldn't let them go back to help localize it.

I believe someone here linked to this originally, but here is an interesting article about Earthbound Zero on the NES and why it never saw release along with some interesting insight into Nintendo's localization process.

[vudu]

Also, so far I am not terribly fond of the battle system, just because it is lacking a lot of complexity up to this point.

The battle system gets better later in the game once you add more members to your party and they begin to learn unique abilities.  However, I don't think it ever gets good enough that I'll ever hear anyone say they played the game for the fights. 

The whole rhythm thing is not explained well at all either and so far I have only been able to do 2 hit combos out of luck. I am sure this aspect will get better

I wouldn't be so certain if I were you.  I'm in Chapter 5 and I've still never gotten more than a 2 hit combo.  Despite that, there was only one boss battle that I had much trouble with and it was because I had done a quick save during a cut scene that flowed directly into the fight and a couple of my characters were weakened and had status ailments that made the beginning of the battle a pain.

The combo system isn't necessary to beat the game unless you're going for a low-level run.

[Armak88]

I read that the rhythm of the combo system is thrown off by the emulator. Not sure how true that is, but I've put enemies to sleep and have still been unable to get more than 2 hits.

[Mop it up]

For those having difficulty with the combo system, I'll repost MegaByte's link: http://cruiseelroy.net/2009/01/mother-3-battle-music.

In that link are various battle musics featured throughout the game, along with the "heartbeat" track for each one. Your goal is to press the A button on each "beat," and not a moment sooner or later. Unfortunately, the timing could be thrown off by your software's fluctuation in running the program, or if the audio isn't synced up with the game. If it seems de-synced, try fiddling with the sound settings. Getting a 16-hit combo is the luck of software stability.

Most tunes are pretty basic rhythm, so attempting that to the tempo of the music is usually successful. The boss tunes are generally the ones that are more complex; even with tunes that have variances, it it still possible to get 3-7 hits attempting the basic rhythm. It also seems like some characters have more success than others, but that may just be me. Learning the system is certainly never necessary, but hey, what else to do you have to do during a battle?

Press
...
Press
...
Press
...
Press
...
Press

[Yankee]

I'm towards the end of chapter 4 in the attic. Did anyone else have major issues with the Jealous Bass? I think I might have to grind a level or two, because I am around level 15 and he is just wiping the floor with me. I have searched for strategies online and it seems like he is known to be particularly hard. With the combination of Pk Love and 1 Pencil/3 Sprinting Bombs it takes me two turns to get rid of the bass' cohorts and by the time Lucas is out of PP I'm dead. It seems like grinding a couple of levels is my only choice, although I really don't want to.

The battle system gets better later in the game once you add more members to your party and they begin to learn unique abilities.  However, I don't think it ever gets good enough that I'll ever hear anyone say they played the game for the fights. 

Yea, makes sense, Mother 2 was very much the same way.

[vudu]

I didn't have many problems with the boss you mentioned.  There's a room a couple door from where the battle begins that will refill your HP/PP--hopefully you're going into the battle maxed out.

[Yankee]

Yea I did that and I was maxed out. Maybe I'm missing equipment or something, I am getting 40-60 damage a turn from it. Not to mention that I can't take out the cohorts in one turn, so I get massacred by the group attack.

Edit: Wound up grinding to level 19 while listening to the new RFN. It didn't take too long. I managed to beat him mainly because of the extra health. Also wound up getting defense up alpha and life up beta by that level, which is a plus. As a tip for anyone else who has trouble in this spot like I did, make sure your level is between 17 and 19 as opposed to 14 like I was.

[Mop it up]

Are you running from monsters or something like that? Other than a few times in the opening chapters before you get control of Lucas, I never once had to stop to grind. I just made sure to fight every enemy I came across and never ran/avoided any, and I got through the game just fine. I also never once used PK Love/Floors/Whatever you named it, because I saved Lucas's PP for healing.

[Yankee]

I don't know, I am a lot deeper into the game now (middle/end of chapter 7) and it seems like every couple of bosses I wind up being pretty under leveled. For example, to beat the mecha-gorilla in the snow area I had to grind my characters up 10-15 levels and still had two party members die. I'm not avoiding enemies much either. It kind of caught me off guard because I didn't remember grinding at all in Mother 2 and the beginning of this game is such a breeze.


Overall, I am really liking the game so far though. This past chapter has had some pretty creepy/funny/weird moments. I don't think I have played another game where my character eats some mushrooms, hallucinates, and checks questionably real mailboxes with strange dialog. Then there is also the depressed rope snake and Magypsies, who keep referring to each other as either male or female... unless I'm going crazy. I didn't think they could get any more disturbing but every time one pops up you still find yourself questioning what the hell that thing really is. Oh, and then there are the mermen who had the pig soldiers questioning their sexual preferences while refilling oxygen. Seriously, explaining this to anyone without any context from the rest of the game sounds extremely disturbing. So obviously Mother 3 is living up to the reputation set by the past two games in this regard.

[Jonnyboy117]

A couple of questions for those of you playing along:

How do you think Mother 3 compares to Earthbound?

How do you think Mother 3 compares to (or parodies) other Japanese RPGs?

[Mop it up]

I don't know, I am a lot deeper into the game now (middle/end of chapter 7) and it seems like every couple of bosses I wind up being pretty under leveled.

Are you being really aggressive? I always have at least one member perform a healing act each turn. What I think makes this game relatively easy is the rolling HP meter, it can be stopped from reaching zero by constantly healing. Sometimes I'll even try to anticipate who's going to be attacked, and since Lucas often takes his turn last, I can heal right after an enemy attack.

1. How do you think Mother 3 compares to Earthbound?

2. How do you think Mother 3 compares to (or parodies) other Japanese RPGs?

1. I'll touch up on this when I post my final thoughts.

2. I don't think I can offer anything for this since I'm not much of an RPG gamer, unless old Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy games count. Even then, probably not much to say.

[vudu]

I don't know, I am a lot deeper into the game now (middle/end of chapter 7) and it seems like every couple of bosses I wind up being pretty under leveled.

Are you being really aggressive? I always have at least one member perform a healing act each turn. What I think makes this game relatively easy is the rolling HP meter, it can be stopped from reaching zero by constantly healing. Sometimes I'll even try to anticipate who's going to be attacked, and since Lucas often takes his turn last, I can heal right after an enemy attack.

In chapter 5 you find a sweater that will heal you every time you take a turn.  It's only a couple HP, but it's really handy for coming back from mortal wounds.  If you currently have 50 HP and you get damaged for 100 HP, as long as you can make that character take his/her turn before they die they'll survive with a couple HP, giving you time to heal they properly.

[Sundoulos]

EDIT: Sigh, never mind.  Shame on me for not reading all of the posts upthread...

I found an interesting writeup on the rhythm-based combo system:
http://cruiseelroy.net/2009/01/mother-3-battle-music/

The link contains some great information  about it, and has links to some of the battle tracks contained within the game.  It also shares this important tip:

To learn the rhythm for a combo you must use the Hypno-Pendulum, an item obtained early in the game that allows you put most enemies to sleep. Sleeping enemies emit a “heartbeat,” which manifests as an audio track layered on top of the background music that reveals the rhythm you need to tap.

I've managed to get a 5 or 6 hit combo just by experimenting with the timed hits, as some songs seem to be much easier than others; I'll have to give this item a try to see if my success rate improves. Needless to say, it's an interesting twist on the battle system, and particularly interesting since a lot of the songs in Mother 3 have a weird, staggered rhythm.  (I'm not really a music guy, so I don't know how to describe it in technical terms.)

If  do really enjoy the variety of battle themes in this game, and I've often wondered why more RPGs don't vary up the music a bit more.  It's always tedious to listen to the same battle theme ad nauseum.

[MegaByte]

I found an interesting writeup on the rhythm-based combo system:
http://cruiseelroy.net/2009/01/mother-3-battle-music/

Didn't read any of the rest of the thread I take it?