Author Topic: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread  (Read 29846 times)

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Offline Yoshidious

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Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« on: July 11, 2010, 05:16:19 PM »
Please use this thread to discuss our next RetroActive game, Mother 3 for Game Boy Advance. Note that we'll be pulling quotes out of this thread to be read on an upcoming episode of Radio Free Nintendo during our discussion of the game. Comments made here are to be limited solely to the game's contents, and will help to direct the podcast coversation.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 06:04:03 PM »
Comments made here are to be limited solely to the game's contents

*cough cough*  ;)

Mother 3 teeters between heartbreaking and ridiculous--a feat I didn't know was possible until recently.  The end of chapter 1, when Flint attacks his friends in a fit of rage after learning of his wife's death, is probably the saddest thing I've ever seen rendered in 16-bit technology.  On the other end of the spectrum, in chapter 2, Wess' dance to open the secret passage had me laughing out loud several minutes after it was done.  Some scenes--such as at the beginning of chapter 3 when the pig-men torture the monkey and threaten the life of his primate girlfriend somehow manage to combine the two extremes in a way that surprisingly doesn't come off as forced but seems completely natural.

The production values are superb.  The sprite work is among the best I've ever seen--rivaling that of Mario & Luigi 3.  In particular, the previously-mentioned dance & the ghost party in chapter 2--which contained multiple specters consuming food & drink that immediately passed through there "bodies"--is absolutely wonderful.  Brownie Brown did an amazing job on this game and it's a shame that more people in America & Europe won't get to play it.  The fan-made English translation is also outstanding, although I suspect that a good portion of that can be attributed to the original script.

Gameplay is a mixed bag.  I'm not a huge fan of the battle mechanics in EarthBound, and they haven't changed much in Mother 3.  They're serviceable, but they're the most uninteresting aspect of the game.  The first couple hours in particular suffer from extremely slow-paced and rudimentary battles.  Luckily, they seem to be getting a bit more complex later in the game and can no longer be won simply by spamming regular attacks.

The good news is that fighting doesn't have a huge role in the game.  Exploration and simple-puzzle solving plays a key part.  Again, the English translation is top-notch--I'd say it rivals the work of Treehouse--so I never dread talking to villagers or exploring every square inch of the "dungeons" because there's always humerus secrets to discover.

In short, I love this game.  More people need to play it.  If you're on the fence about it because of the grayish nature of legally playing it in English all I can say is if you skip this game you're doing yourself a disservice.  You can buy a copy of the Japanese cartridge on eBay for around $50 if it eases your conscience.

Aside:  Has anyone been able to figure out the combo system?  I know it has to do with the battle music--particularly, how it lines up with enemies' heartbeats--but I can't get it to work.  I've had multiple two-hit combos by pure accident but I've heard you can get up to a 16-hit combo.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 06:14:59 PM »
Yes, if you have comments regarding the game's release, or lack thereof, or the legitimacy of playing it one way or another, please feel free to create your own thread elsewhere in the forums. I would like this one to stay on-topic with the game itself, because it could easily be derailed and overwhelmed by meta-controversies.

I just started playing Mother 3 myself, and it may be a few more days before I've seen enough to organize my thoughts. First impressions are very good, though!
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 09:33:29 PM »
I haven't started my second playthrough yet, but I really loved this game when I first played it. I was honestly surprised at how good it is. If we're just focusing on the first section, I can say that the first chapter features some of the saddest moments I've ever seen in a video game. It's just totally unexpected for that to happen. It makes me think of the quote associated with the game: "funny, strange, and heart-wrenching."
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 11:03:55 AM »
I haven't played the game before but I was a big fan of Earthbound back in the day, so I'm looking forward to starting up a playthrough now that I'm all setup and ready to go.  Horrible timing, though, for an RPG of this caliber.  I just started really getting into Mass Effect, and I can feel Tales of Vesperia's icey glare over from my bookcase (since I already put that down to play Mass Effect)!   :'(
 
Just out of curiosity, roughly how long would you guys who have played this game before say this is?
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 02:09:01 PM »
Umm...I don't remember exactly. I wanna say 15-20 hours, but I could be way off. It might be more than that...or a little less.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 10:02:47 PM »
If it's similar in length to Earthbound, then I'd say around 20 hours. Though I tend to be a bit overleveled since I fight everything that moves, so perhaps it's less if you're brave...

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2010, 12:36:59 AM »
I am a big Earthbound fan, but have never played Mother 3 before. I decided to use this retroactive as motivation to play through it now. I just finished the first chapter and I am really enjoying it so far. I miss the whimsical nature of Earthbound though. I always wondered if the whole adventure in Earthbound was just something that was just imagined by the children. Obviously it wasn't really presented that way, but it just had this feel to it that was innocent. I feel like mother has stripped this innocence. Not necessarily in a bad way, but in the same way that it is sad to think of how children eventually grow up.

Just thought I would say I am enjoying it so far, and intend to play it all the way through, hopefully before the podcast airs. I'll drop my comments as I go along. Do we really need spoiler tags btw?
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Offline Sundoulos

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2010, 09:54:29 AM »
Okay, I started playing this in small chunks the other night.  I finally got to the part where Flint is reunited with Claus and Lucas, and he discovers that Hinawa died defending her children. 

Part of me was surprised that they showed Flint losing control due to   his grief...and then one of the characters talked about how Lucas had not left his mother's grave.  This is going to sound completely ridiculous, but this part of the game   actually moved me to tears.   To my recollection, that's the first time a   game has managed to elicit that response from me.  (Thankfully, no one   was watching me play.) :D

I'm sure it's because I'm sensitive towards story conceits such as this one; I have a young son (and another coming soon), and I can imagine how traumatized and lost he'd feel without his mother.  I can imagine how lost I'd feel.  I was also sympathetic towards Flint; I know how I'd feel if I lost my wife and felt powerless to stop it.  So it's sort of difficult not to project those characters' feelings onto myself, and that speaks well of the game.  Instead of smirking at the melodrama (as I usually do when playing games), I was moved. 


I had only briefly played the first few hours Earthbound in the past.  I can only based this in the first hour or so, but so far, this game seems little less off-the-wall, though it maintains some of the quirky charm. 

There is one thing I really noticed and appreciate about it, though.  Each character, including the NPCs, have unique names and character designs.  That is extremely rare for an RPG; and it gives me the impression that this game was lovingly and carefully crafted.   That's something I really appreciate about it, because it makes you feel as if you are in a truly realized world. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 10:05:07 AM by Sundoulos »
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Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2010, 02:40:20 PM »
Do we really need spoiler tags btw?

I think it works best this way.  It encourages people to participate throughout the playthough rather than just at the end.  The story and quirky side stuff is the best part of the game--you don't want it ruined for you.  Just say (Chapter 2 spoilers) and then the spoiler out the text.

I finished chapter 3 last night.  I felt like this chapter moved a lot slower the ones before it.  Mainly because the character you're controlling is physically weak so you have to rely on special skills and your helper partner to do most of the damage.

But the end of chapter 3 was completely awesome.  Lucas shows up with a Drago and kicks some serious Pigmask ass!  It's nice to see the character grow throughout the course of the game.  I really look forward to playing as him later.

Has anyone been able to figure out the combo system?  I know it has to do with the battle music--particularly, how it lines up with enemies' heartbeats--but I can't get it to work.  I've had multiple two-hit combos by pure accident but I've heard you can get up to a 16-hit combo.

I still haven't gotten the combo system to work yet.  Any else?
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2010, 02:54:03 PM »
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Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2010, 08:00:33 PM »
HOLY CRAP I JUST STARTED CHAPTER FOUR

What have those monsters done to my small village!?
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2010, 08:23:21 PM »
I've never really been a fan of RPGs, though there have been exceptions when they do something special, like Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, and Chrono Trigger. Though as time has gone by, the interest I did have has shrunken even further. I think that the time has passed where I would have been able to enjoy this game. It's okay, but I can't really get into it. I first played Earthbound in 2002, and if I had played this shortly thereafter, I would have loved it.

This game doesn't have the same whimsy, and has a more serious tone to it. It isn't about a kid who sets out to battle an evil, annoying neighbor, which may or may not have been just his imagination. I loved that. It's been segmented between several characters who don't really seem to show a connection (yet, I would suppose), and because there's no real "main" character, it is difficult to get into. I find myself wanting to get through certain parts as soon as I can, until I get to the point with Lucas, because I think that once there, he's used for the rest of the game. The battle system is a bit more fast-paced than Earthbound, though it is still the least interesting aspect. Even the quirky monsters and trippy backgrounds don't save it.

I think there may be a message in Itoi's games. No matter what happens in life, it's important to enjoy yourself any way you can, and never lose a sense of humour.

Maybe this will help: http://cruiseelroy.net/2009/01/mother-3-battle-music/
I still don't get it, but at least I now know it has something to do with pressing a button (the in-game explanation doesn't say that). I'll have to study that later and see if I can figure it out. And turn up the game's volume.

Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 12:07:46 AM »
There is a main character. It's Lucas. You just don't start off as playing as him. Personally, I think this is a far better game than Earthbound. I'll admit, it's got a higher barrier of entry because of the story focus (and the whole "it only came out in Japan" thing), but the gameplay is much better than its predecessor and the story is entertaining and gripping. There's also a parallel to a certain sci-fi series that amused me greatly once it hit me, but I won't spell it out for anyone.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2010, 12:18:11 AM »
I know, that's why I put "main" in quotes, since you don't use that character the entire game like in most RPGs. You don't get there until almost halfway through the game, if what little I've read is correct.

Offline Sundoulos

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2010, 01:10:02 AM »
Sounds a lot like Dragon Quest IV.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2010, 01:16:10 AM »
It's funny you say that, because to me Earthbound has always felt as a sort of parody of Dragon Warrior. Or maybe "homage" would be a better word. Mother 3 feels less so and more of its own game, but there's still a touch of that in it.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 06:38:38 PM by Mop it up »

Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2010, 08:16:54 AM »
This game doesn't have the same whimsy, and has a more serious tone to it.

The whimsy and humor are still a big part of Mother 3.  But there's also this layer of emotion that wasn't present in EarthBound.  The game does a wonderful job of weaving the two together (see my prior examples) and they both take turns sharing the spotlight.
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2010, 03:02:19 PM »
Sounds a lot like Dragon Quest IV.

It definitely is, at least from what I've heard of DQIV.
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2010, 03:02:42 PM »
It's funny you say that, because to me Earthbound has also felt as a sort of parody of Dragon Warrior. Or maybe "homage" would be a better word. Mother 3 feels less so and more of its own game, but there's still a touch of that in it.

Have you played it?
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2010, 06:43:24 PM »
Which one? I mentioned three games.
I bought Earthbound back in 2002 not long after the whole craze started due to Super Smash Brothers Melee.
I have Dragon Warrior I, II, and III, though I beat only I. I found them tedious and lost interest in them quickly.
I'm playing Mother 3 now, I just finished the 4th chapter.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2010, 09:09:23 PM »
I meant Mother 3. I couldn't tell if you were reading about the game or playing it. Good to hear you're playing it. Sad to hear that you don't seem to be taken by it yet.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2010, 11:56:22 AM »
Wow.  Just wow.

Was anyone else completely weirded out by the scene in chapter 4 when Lucas is walking down the train tracks and stops to rest at the hot water spring?  I'm left wondering how much of this was in the original script and how much was tweaked by the fan-translation team.

In the scene, Lucas runs into Ionia, who we met briefly earlier in the game with a different character.  Ionia is a Magypsie, a type of fairy that appear to be very effeminate men dressed in women's clothing.  Here's the script:

Ionia:

  Aiiieee!  :heart;
  You caught me stark naked!
  ...
  I'm Ionia, one of the Magypsies.  :heart;
  This is a Magic Butterfly colony.
  I often come here to be revitalized after I've worn myself out by overusing my PSI.  :heart;
  Are you here because you overused your PSI, too?  :heart;
  ...Oh?
  You've never heard of PSI?
  ...That's odd.
  I sense loads of magical power coming from you.  :heart;

(Ionia approaches Lucas.  Lucas turns around to face away from him.)

Ionia:
  ...Wait.
  Just endure it for a little bit.

(The screen fades to black.)

Ionia:
  Don't struggle!
  Just endure it for a little bit!
  Yeesh!
  Just a little more!
  OK!!

(Screen fades in.  Lucas is underwater.  He jumps up and splashes.)

Something awoke inside Lucas!
...
Lastly, power welled up from deep within his heart!
Lucas learned the power of PK Love!
Lucas learned how to use PSI!

Ionia:
  Oh!  My goodness!  :heart;
  I can't believe it!
  You can use PK Love!
  Not even we Magypsies are able to use it!
  You sly devil, you!  :heart;
  I don't know where you come from or where you're going,
  but we might meet again.  :heart;
  So at least tell me your name.
  ......Lucas.
  Thanks.  I'll remember that.  :heart;
  Now go.
  I want to boil up, too.  :heart;


I feel dirty.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2010, 03:44:50 PM »
Yeah, that was disturbing. I don't think the translation crew would've altered that scene in any way, but the original text for it may not have been suggestive. I guess there's no way to know.

I'm starting to wonder if there is more of a reason this game wasn't released in North America than simply it being unpopular...

Offline Sundoulos

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2010, 08:28:17 PM »
I had my first run-in with Magypsies today.  Yes...creeeeeeepy in that Tingle sort of way.

Eww. I haven't reached the part that vudu is describing yet, but that seems very disturbing.  Again, since I have a young kid, even the thought ohttp://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=625012;topic=31911.0f something that inappropriate involving a child (in real life) is enough to make me feel murderously angry; I don't really have any sort of sense of humor about it at all even if it's presented as an innocuous joke within a game. 

I know that you could chalk it up to cultural differences; you don't have to watch that much anime to find something that wouldn't go over well in other countries. 

With regard to this scene, I could imagine that the translation dialogue is probably very similar to the source material, as are a number of the word choices (e.g. swearing); I can't imagine a scenario that the people responsible for the translation would have intentionally made it more icky...considering that they probably would have wanted to leave the translation as close to it's original state as possible.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 07:42:50 AM by Sundoulos »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2010, 11:56:15 PM »
I'm starting to wonder if there is more of a reason this game wasn't released in North America than simply it being unpopular...

No, the reason is to spite the pseudo-terrorist Starmen.net and all the other psychotic Earthbound fans out there.  Maybe if they chilled out then you'd have it.  Or maybe not.  Yeah, most likely not.  :reggie:
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2010, 01:17:02 AM »
One thing that I noticed almost immediately was that the game had some cursing in it. There was never any swearing in Earthbound, and I doubt any Nintendo overseen translation would allow swearing in Mother 3 so I'm sure this fan translation would differ from an official one in other ways that are similar to that.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2010, 02:01:16 PM »
I can only assume that the original Japanese text has (their version of) cursing, and the localization group tried to translate those parts literally. Based on what I've read about the localization effort, it seems unlikely they would add disparate elements like that. But I do agree that a Treehouse localization would probably omit or reduce the strength of any such language.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2010, 02:06:38 PM »
Will this game ever come out on virtual console?
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2010, 02:08:05 PM »
Will this game ever come out on virtual console?

On the Japanese 3DS store (assuming there is one)?  Sure.  Sadly, Nintendo has shown in the past that there isn't a chance in hell of this game hitting any form of US Virtual Console.  See: Earthbound.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2010, 01:16:16 AM »
It's definitely obvious that it's a fan translation, in both content and style. I've noticed quite a few grammatical errors that probably wouldn't be present in a professional translation. And yeah, there's absolutely no way any trace of the casual swearing or that scene Vudu transcribed would be in an official release. I mean, things that Nintendo changed in the previous two games include removing the cigarette from Smokey the Crow, attaching a ball on the conical hoods of the insane cultists so they appear less like the KKK, and putting pajamas on a naked Ness. Okay, so that last one makes sense, but still, they've changed some very minor stuff.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2010, 01:21:06 AM »
Funny thing is, the US censoring actually found its way back into the GBA version, even though the first game was ultimately never released,  meaning that the localization was being handled at least partly by the Japanese team.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2010, 11:46:38 AM »
Just finished chapter 1 last night and was wondering/hoping, do the Magypsies play a large role in the story? They seem funny and they appeal on a purely geek level since they're named after the musical modes.

Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2010, 12:45:03 PM »
Just finished chapter 1 last night and was wondering/hoping, do the Magypsies play a large role in the story? They seem funny and they appeal on a purely geek level since they're named after the musical modes.

They pop up once more before the end of chapter 4.  I can't say anything about the later chapters because I haven't reached that point yet.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2010, 07:52:56 PM »
Just finished chapter 1 last night and was wondering/hoping, do the Magypsies play a large role in the story? They seem funny and they appeal on a purely geek level since they're named after the musical modes.

Yes, they play a very big role.   They also creep me out, although I'm strangely fond of the seventh one.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2010, 12:31:27 AM »
I'm currently in the middle of chapter 2. One of the biggest things that has jumped out at me while I have been playing it is that the humor is a lot less subtle than I remember it being in Earthbound. It seems like Mother 3 delivers a lot of it through dialog instead of the world itself, which I guess makes sense considering the increased role of the story in this game.

I think that most of the impact of the mother's death came from the way that it was delivered. The title of the chapter foreshadowed someone's death, and when they only found Lucas and Claus it was basically a done deal. But the way you got the news was shocking. It's like:


"well the good news is that I found this awesome new weapon you can use."
"alright."
"Oh, and it was sticking out of your wife's bleeding chest"
"WTF"



Also, so far I am not terribly fond of the battle system, just because it is lacking a lot of complexity up to this point. It seems to just be boiling down to attack, attack, eat beef jerky, and attack. The whole rhythm thing is not explained well at all either and so far I have only been able to do 2 hit combos out of luck. I am sure this aspect will get better, seeing how chapter 2 starts making special moves necessary to beat certain enemies and it is also pretty early in the game.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2010, 08:22:40 AM »
Funny thing is, the US censoring actually found its way back into the GBA version, even though the first game was ultimately never released,  meaning that the localization was being handled at least partly by the Japanese team.

I recall reading that Nintendo requires the original team to have a hand in the localization process. They do a lot more than translating including adding extra bonuses and tweaks. It's one of the reasons games can take a long time coming from Japan to the West. In some cases it's almost like the English version is the "director's cut" edition. I wouldn't be surprised if that was why there was such a clash about Fatal Frame 4. Tecmo had already reassigned the team to a new project so they wouldn't let them go back to help localize it.

I believe someone here linked to this originally, but here is an interesting article about Earthbound Zero on the NES and why it never saw release along with some interesting insight into Nintendo's localization process.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2010, 10:48:36 AM »
Also, so far I am not terribly fond of the battle system, just because it is lacking a lot of complexity up to this point.

The battle system gets better later in the game once you add more members to your party and they begin to learn unique abilities.  However, I don't think it ever gets good enough that I'll ever hear anyone say they played the game for the fights.  ;)

The whole rhythm thing is not explained well at all either and so far I have only been able to do 2 hit combos out of luck. I am sure this aspect will get better

I wouldn't be so certain if I were you.  I'm in Chapter 5 and I've still never gotten more than a 2 hit combo.  Despite that, there was only one boss battle that I had much trouble with and it was because I had done a quick save during a cut scene that flowed directly into the fight and a couple of my characters were weakened and had status ailments that made the beginning of the battle a pain.

The combo system isn't necessary to beat the game unless you're going for a low-level run.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2010, 11:37:09 AM »
I read that the rhythm of the combo system is thrown off by the emulator. Not sure how true that is, but I've put enemies to sleep and have still been unable to get more than 2 hits.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2010, 05:04:17 PM »
For those having difficulty with the combo system, I'll repost MegaByte's link: http://cruiseelroy.net/2009/01/mother-3-battle-music.

In that link are various battle musics featured throughout the game, along with the "heartbeat" track for each one. Your goal is to press the A button on each "beat," and not a moment sooner or later. Unfortunately, the timing could be thrown off by your software's fluctuation in running the program, or if the audio isn't synced up with the game. If it seems de-synced, try fiddling with the sound settings. Getting a 16-hit combo is the luck of software stability.

Most tunes are pretty basic rhythm, so attempting that to the tempo of the music is usually successful. The boss tunes are generally the ones that are more complex; even with tunes that have variances, it it still possible to get 3-7 hits attempting the basic rhythm. It also seems like some characters have more success than others, but that may just be me. Learning the system is certainly never necessary, but hey, what else to do you have to do during a battle?

Press
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Press
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Press
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Press
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Press
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 05:13:26 PM by Mop it up »

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2010, 04:18:19 PM »
I'm towards the end of chapter 4 in the attic. Did anyone else have major issues with the Jealous Bass? I think I might have to grind a level or two, because I am around level 15 and he is just wiping the floor with me. I have searched for strategies online and it seems like he is known to be particularly hard. With the combination of Pk Love and 1 Pencil/3 Sprinting Bombs it takes me two turns to get rid of the bass' cohorts and by the time Lucas is out of PP I'm dead. It seems like grinding a couple of levels is my only choice, although I really don't want to.


Quote from: vudu
The battle system gets better later in the game once you add more members to your party and they begin to learn unique abilities.  However, I don't think it ever gets good enough that I'll ever hear anyone say they played the game for the fights.  ;)


Yea, makes sense, Mother 2 was very much the same way.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2010, 04:40:34 PM »
I didn't have many problems with the boss you mentioned.  There's a room a couple door from where the battle begins that will refill your HP/PP--hopefully you're going into the battle maxed out.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2010, 04:58:12 PM »
Yea I did that and I was maxed out. Maybe I'm missing equipment or something, I am getting 40-60 damage a turn from it. Not to mention that I can't take out the cohorts in one turn, so I get massacred by the group attack.

Edit: Wound up grinding to level 19 while listening to the new RFN. It didn't take too long. I managed to beat him mainly because of the extra health. Also wound up getting defense up alpha and life up beta by that level, which is a plus. As a tip for anyone else who has trouble in this spot like I did, make sure your level is between 17 and 19 as opposed to 14 like I was.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 11:28:46 PM by Yankee »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2010, 06:48:48 PM »
Are you running from monsters or something like that? Other than a few times in the opening chapters before you get control of Lucas, I never once had to stop to grind. I just made sure to fight every enemy I came across and never ran/avoided any, and I got through the game just fine. I also never once used PK Love/Floors/Whatever you named it, because I saved Lucas's PP for healing.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2010, 11:54:57 PM »
I don't know, I am a lot deeper into the game now (middle/end of chapter 7) and it seems like every couple of bosses I wind up being pretty under leveled. For example, to beat the mecha-gorilla in the snow area I had to grind my characters up 10-15 levels and still had two party members die. I'm not avoiding enemies much either. It kind of caught me off guard because I didn't remember grinding at all in Mother 2 and the beginning of this game is such a breeze.


Overall, I am really liking the game so far though. This past chapter has had some pretty creepy/funny/weird moments. I don't think I have played another game where my character eats some mushrooms, hallucinates, and checks questionably real mailboxes with strange dialog. Then there is also the depressed rope snake and Magypsies, who keep referring to each other as either male or female... unless I'm going crazy. I didn't think they could get any more disturbing but every time one pops up you still find yourself questioning what the hell that thing really is. Oh, and then there are the mermen who had the pig soldiers questioning their sexual preferences while refilling oxygen. Seriously, explaining this to anyone without any context from the rest of the game sounds extremely disturbing. So obviously Mother 3 is living up to the reputation set by the past two games in this regard.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 12:20:20 AM by Yankee »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2010, 01:12:35 AM »
A couple of questions for those of you playing along:

How do you think Mother 3 compares to Earthbound?

How do you think Mother 3 compares to (or parodies) other Japanese RPGs?
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2010, 06:32:24 PM »
I don't know, I am a lot deeper into the game now (middle/end of chapter 7) and it seems like every couple of bosses I wind up being pretty under leveled.
Are you being really aggressive? I always have at least one member perform a healing act each turn. What I think makes this game relatively easy is the rolling HP meter, it can be stopped from reaching zero by constantly healing. Sometimes I'll even try to anticipate who's going to be attacked, and since Lucas often takes his turn last, I can heal right after an enemy attack.

1. How do you think Mother 3 compares to Earthbound?

2. How do you think Mother 3 compares to (or parodies) other Japanese RPGs?
1. I'll touch up on this when I post my final thoughts.

2. I don't think I can offer anything for this since I'm not much of an RPG gamer, unless old Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy games count. Even then, probably not much to say.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2010, 02:24:44 PM »
I don't know, I am a lot deeper into the game now (middle/end of chapter 7) and it seems like every couple of bosses I wind up being pretty under leveled.
Are you being really aggressive? I always have at least one member perform a healing act each turn. What I think makes this game relatively easy is the rolling HP meter, it can be stopped from reaching zero by constantly healing. Sometimes I'll even try to anticipate who's going to be attacked, and since Lucas often takes his turn last, I can heal right after an enemy attack.

In chapter 5 you find a sweater that will heal you every time you take a turn.  It's only a couple HP, but it's really handy for coming back from mortal wounds.  If you currently have 50 HP and you get damaged for 100 HP, as long as you can make that character take his/her turn before they die they'll survive with a couple HP, giving you time to heal they properly.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2010, 12:50:27 PM »
EDIT: Sigh, never mind.  Shame on me for not reading all of the posts upthread...

I found an interesting writeup on the rhythm-based combo system:
http://cruiseelroy.net/2009/01/mother-3-battle-music/

The link contains some great information  about it, and has links to some of the battle tracks contained within the game.  It also shares this important tip:

Quote
To learn the rhythm for a combo you must use the Hypno-Pendulum, an item obtained early in the game that allows you put most enemies to sleep. Sleeping enemies emit a “heartbeat,†which manifests as an audio track layered on top of the background music that reveals the rhythm you need to tap.

I've managed to get a 5 or 6 hit combo just by experimenting with the timed hits, as some songs seem to be much easier than others; I'll have to give this item a try to see if my success rate improves. Needless to say, it's an interesting twist on the battle system, and particularly interesting since a lot of the songs in Mother 3 have a weird, staggered rhythm.  (I'm not really a music guy, so I don't know how to describe it in technical terms.)

If  do really enjoy the variety of battle themes in this game, and I've often wondered why more RPGs don't vary up the music a bit more.  It's always tedious to listen to the same battle theme ad nauseum.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 11:10:31 PM by Sundoulos »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2010, 05:17:42 PM »
I found an interesting writeup on the rhythm-based combo system:
http://cruiseelroy.net/2009/01/mother-3-battle-music/
Didn't read any of the rest of the thread I take it?
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2010, 05:35:21 PM »
 :-[ Oops, obviously not, in this case.  At least not that part of it.  My apologies. 

Well, I've only made it to the end of chapter 3, but I'll give my 2 cents on to the questions Jonny posed:

Mother 3s battle system does remind me a lot of Dragon Quest, as has been mentioned a few times.   In a lot of ways, I have found it to be more difficult than other RPGSs because it takes so long to get healing PSI abilities in the game, and, even at halfway through the game, I have yet to encounter an item or a "spell" that allows me to resurrect party members.  It's possible that I probably just missed one.  Like Yankee, I had to spend a good deal of time grinding at the beginning of chapters 2, 3, and 4...especially since the story hits the reset button, and you start over with a new character.   Chapter 2 probably took me the longest of any of them because Duster didn't have any support characters for a while, and I found many of his "thief" abilities to be kind of useless without another character to deliver offensive damage during each turn.

The narrative structure, is a lot like Dragon Quest 4.  While this makes the storytelling a little more interesting, it also means, of course, that Mother 3 shares one of DQ4s greatest weakness: it slows the player's momentum each time you start one of the early chapters.  I don't necessarily enjoy starting over from level 1 each time I progress to a new area of the game, and I found it frustrating to gain some abilities near the end of some chapters that I would miss in later chapters.   

I've never played Earthbound at length, so I can't draw much of a comparison between it and it's successor.  The battle system and graphical style seem very similar, as does some of the 4th-wall breaking humor.  I do enjoy some of the little jabs the game series makes at Japanese (and perhaps, western) culture. Earthbound did do this to some extent as well; I remember that in Earthbound, Ness only communicated to his father through the telephone.  If I recall, you never actually see him in the game.  I have some Japanese friend at college who was an exchange student


Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that seemed more innocent than Mother 3, but I think that is a major point of the game: a lot of the theme seems to deal with the loss of innocence.  You obviously have the loss of innocence of a family (particularly the children) when tragedy strikes.  Also, the game clearly takes a jab at the affects of industrialization and capitalism on a society: Tazmily village loses it's culture and innocence due to the influence of outside forces.  This is common theme I've seen in a number of Japanese movies, anime.  Also, the "happy boxes" are obviously a thinly veiled jab at television or computers.  While mileage may vary on how creative this is, somehow the delivery avoids being overly preachy or hamfisted.

Anyway, this post is going on too long already.  I will say that, overall, I've really enjoyed the game aside from some of the weirder moments with the Magypsies. *shudder*  I appreciate that most of the characters, including the NPCs are uniquely designed, even if I'm not a huge fan of the art style, and I really like variety and uniqueness of the music in the game as well. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 10:41:49 PM by Sundoulos »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2010, 08:02:56 PM »
Quote from: Sundoulos
I have yet to encounter an item or a "spell" that allows me to resurrect foes (meaning allies?).
You actually get one for lucas at level 39. http://walkthrough.starmen.net/mother3/psilist.php I found this pretty useful while playing through. There is also an item you get pretty often called life noodles that resurrects allies.


Anyway, I finished the game a few days ago and have had a while to collect my thoughts. So here we go:


At first I struggled to decide if I liked Mother 2 or Mother 3 more. Actually up to about halfway through the game I was leaning towards the former. However, as the game progressed I found that I liked the sequel more. This decision mainly had to do with the story. I love the lighthearted feel and the charm of Earthbound, but it never really progresses any further than that. Before I played Mother 3 I actually though that a serious story would be detrimental to that lighthearted feel that I loved so much. I actually found it to be the exact opposite. I believe that they complement each other very well in the way they are handled in Mother 3 and that it made the overall game more enjoyable. Mother 3 also throws in some nice ties to Earthbound at the end although for most of the game they seem unrelated. Mother 3 also has a very creative end sequence before the credits which I thought was really interesting.


Another thought I have had is how in many ways the design of Mother 3 is similar to that of Final Fantasy 13. I, like Lindy and Jonny on RFN, have been playing through that game recently. I started to notice after I went through Mother 3 that the game is very linear, like FF13. But Mother 3 does a much better job of hiding this fact and makes you feel like you are able to explore more openly. If you ever do go too far off course, text pops up in Mother 3 saying “there are ants by your feet, don’t step on them†or something to that effect. Mother 3 feels much more open because they guide you from area to area without showing you that you are going in a straight line like FF13 does. The setup is the same for both games, really. Chapter starts, then a cutscene, then you play though an area. Rinse and repeat. The design of the two games eventually splits because it seems like at some point the developers felt a need to open 13 up, which is very disorienting when it happens and has turned me off from going back into it for now (I would have actually been fine with the game sticking to its prior format). Mother 3 doesn’t do this and really doesn’t suffer from it at all. I never once thought of the game’s underlying linearity while I was playing it.


And one more note, I found it hilarious that at one point in chapter 8 text from Leder popped up in my game and said “you have been playing for a long time, why don’t you take a rest†or something like that. It seems like Nintendo has been up to this kind of stuff much longer than recently.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 08:04:45 PM by Yankee »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2010, 08:59:06 PM »
Here are my final thoughts on the game. I guess I should spoiler this... and if you haven't completed the game, you very likely don't want to read this.

As soon as I saw the "Happy Box" things, I was like "oh great, this is going to be some preachy thing about how capitalism is evil or something." And I was mostly right, it's about how greed and technology destroyed the world... which is so preachy it's boring and uninteresting. Though, I can't say I cared about most of the people in the world, since a lot of them came off as shallow and unintelligent.

Some other characters have a problem with believability, too. Like Flint, for example. He completely and totally neglects Lucas throughout this entire game. I know he's been through a lot, but I'm not so sure anyone would obsessively look for their missing child for three straight years, spending every waking moment searching for his son or visiting his wife's grave, all the while ignoring his other son who's right there. Right there!

This game was still decent though, up until the eighth chapter, at which point it fell apart. The biggest issue? Leder's speech. Not only is this little backstory almost completely irrelevant, but it also makes the whole game feel pointless. I think it was outrageous to state that the rest of the world was destroyed, and that the people of this little island are the only ones left. It would have had more of an impact if this island were somewhere in the modern world, and were discovered by some outsider who sought to take advantage of the people. And it is delivered through nothing but text, rather than showing scenes from the past, so it was boring.

Though, Porky showing up right at the end was also a terrible inclusion for this storyline. His loose connection felt very forced, like they had to include him because of how Mother 2 ended. I think it would have been quite a tragedy if it were in fact Claus who built the empire and wanted to control/destroy/whatever Porky's intentions were for the world. And it still doesn't explain a few things... like why the needles had to be pulled, and how Porky got there, among others. And the whole world was ambiguously destroyed in the end, which made everything feel pointless. Everyone now just exists in blackness? Hooray?

The final "battle" was so slow. We know the Masked Man is Claus, this was obvious since the first time we saw him. We shouldn't have to sit through a lengthy battle sequence constantly healing Lucas whilst their mother says the same basic lines over and over and over again. Plus, Flint's act of heroism is simply described in the text instead of in a cutscene. The whole scene was poorly done, and would've had a lot more power if it were played out in some other fashion.

I also think there are quite a few distasteful attempts at humour. The aforementioned scene where Lucas learns PSI is a prime example, where the text implies Lucas is raped. I don't think that's actually what happened, it's just supposed to sound like it.

On its own merits, Mother 3 is a competent game, but as a follow up to Earthbound, it was quite a letdown. Only the battle mechanics and graphics were improved, everything else ranged from slightly below to far worse. It has left me with the feeling that perhaps it is better if Earthbound is a one-off thing, nothing but a happy memory from my youth. I'm okay with that.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2010, 12:31:07 PM »
Wow, just had stupid realisation. I, like Yankee, was really struggling on certain bosses (I'm well into chapter 5 currently), and I was wondering why all the new equipment from vending machines was so expensive when there didn't seem to be any source of DP. Of course what I didn't realise was that you do receive money for fighting enemies that you can withdraw from frogs! I had to check an FAQ to find this out, and I don't think the game does a good enough job of informing the player about this. Now I know and the stats of the characters have just jumped up considerably so I think things are about to get a whole lot easier.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2010, 01:11:39 PM »
Quote from: Mop it up
Though, I can't say I cared about most of the people in the world, since a lot of them came off as shallow and unintelligent.

I disagree, I think that is used to fuel the humor and charm of the game though. Earthbound was the same way. The whole world of arguably both games is shallow and unintelligent, which mirrors the element of innocence in the story as well. I also agree that the scene in which Leder explains the back story could be made better with some cut scenes or something, but I feel like the information he provided was interesting and gave more context to what you experienced earlier in the game. Like you said, it was a little shoehorned in though. I also like that the ending was left up in the air a bit for the player to think about.

And adadad, I agree the game does a bad job at explaining this. I found it out basically right after they introduced the system by just asking the frog out of curiosity to see how the banking system worked. Then I saw the money from the enemies I killed in there. It probably would have been better if they just told you how much you earned after every battle, like I think they did in Earthbound.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 01:17:02 PM by Yankee »
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Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2010, 01:45:51 PM »
what I didn't realise was that you do receive money for fighting enemies that you can withdraw from frogs!

I don't understand why Nintendo chose to even have the frogs act as ATMs.  There's no gameplay-mechanic that makes it beneficial to not carry all your DP with you at all times.  And it doesn't fit into the story like it did in EarthBound.  It makes no sense.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2010, 02:30:16 PM »
what I didn't realise was that you do receive money for fighting enemies that you can withdraw from frogs!

I don't understand why Nintendo chose to even have the frogs act as ATMs.  There's no gameplay-mechanic that makes it beneficial to not carry all your DP with you at all times.  And it doesn't fit into the story like it did in EarthBound.  It makes no sense.

Yes, I was wondering if there was some sort of penalty for dying, such as losing DP you haven't deposited.  If there is, I haven't noticed it so far.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2010, 03:14:38 PM »
what I didn't realise was that you do receive money for fighting enemies that you can withdraw from frogs!

I don't understand why Nintendo chose to even have the frogs act as ATMs.  There's no gameplay-mechanic that makes it beneficial to not carry all your DP with you at all times.  And it doesn't fit into the story like it did in EarthBound.  It makes no sense.

Yes, I was wondering if there was some sort of penalty for dying, such as losing DP you haven't deposited.  If there is, I haven't noticed it so far.

There is, if you die you lose half the DP you have on your person.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2010, 06:40:17 PM »
I disagree, I think that is used to fuel the humor and charm of the game though. Earthbound was the same way.
There's one major difference: The people of Earthbound didn't lead themselves into destruction. Twice. That's the difference between the people of Earthbound seeming charming and whimsical, and the people of Mother 3 seeming idiotic and foolhardy.

Also, due to the scene where you walk around in blackness talking to people, I don't think it leaves anything up to the imagination. Without that, it might. With few exceptions, I think that a story with an ending that leaves things up to the reader's imagination is lazy storytelling. And Mother 3 definitely feels rather lazy.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2010, 08:06:59 PM »

Quote from: Mop it up
There's one major difference: The people of Earthbound didn't lead themselves into destruction. Twice. That's the difference between the people of Earthbound seeming charming and whimsical, and the people of Mother 3 seeming idiotic and foolhardy.

I don't see them as being idiotic or foolhardy. I see them as being more human. In Earthbound the characters are stuck in a fantasy world. They are never subjected to any sort of reality. Mother 3 has characters that behave very much in the same way as Earthbound, but these characters at times are forced to cope with death and loss. Through this outside influence on their once perfect world the characters make decisions that eventually destroy their utopia. This never happens in Earthbound. The characters in both games are lighthearted and innocent to provide some charm, but Mother 3 takes advantage of that to enhance the message of the human condition in the story. Compared to Mother 3, the behavior of the characters in Earthbound is about charm and novelty alone.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2010, 08:28:57 PM »
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't get that feeling from it, and I think it's largely due to the weak storytelling and presentation, from all the reasons I mentioned, plus some I didn't. It just doesn't fit together.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2010, 08:57:40 PM »
Yea, a person's opinion of the story is really vital to how they perceive the rest of the game.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2010, 09:00:48 PM »
Are you mocking me?

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2010, 10:21:01 PM »
I don't understand, how would I be mocking you? I am agreeing with you. I seemed to like the story elements of the game more than you have expressed, and as a result like the other elements of the game that you have taken issue with more. I am sorry if you took my post another way somehow.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 10:23:10 PM by Yankee »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2010, 10:36:16 PM »
My apologies. I happened to read the comment as sarcasm, it might be because sarcasm tends to start with "Yea."

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2010, 10:40:21 PM »
Ah ok it's alright. I blame the internet.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2010, 11:10:12 PM »
Here's some end-game spoilers and my impressions.

So, my impressions?  Not nearly as good as Earthbound.  The entire last chapter of the game says "Screw You" to Mother 3's plot, and turns the game into an Earthbound spin-off, rather than a sequel.  Everything in the game becomes about Mother 2, with the exception of one hallway and a few speeches by some characters, all cobbled together.

Leder's speech, in particular, was incredibly annoying.  What's the point of what he tells you?  What's the point of the egg?  What's the point of the castle.  Everything in the game that pertains to Lucas, Claus, Duster, and Kumatora is basically summed up as irrelevant, since Itoi and the plot's developers decided to really reveal things all in one go, by a person that didn't make sense, in order to try to tie up all the loose ends of the plot.

In truth, it became clear the game was about two things: Lucas's family and the end of Porky.  In both cases, I felt let down.  Since Flint was such a terrible father, I really felt like he had very little place just popping up at the end of the game to finally try to take a little bit of responsibility for Lucas, and only it was convenient to his discovery of Claus.  Then, Lucas, rather than growing up and having the guts to end his brother's misery, forces his mostly-brain-dead brother to commit suicide, instead.  Essentially, even though the game makes it a point to say Lucas is the coddled baby of the family, he doesn't do much to grow up, aside from set out on adventure, and continue adventuring.  He never makes a hard decision.  He doesn't fight to protect himself, his friends, or the world.  He does exactly the opposite.  When it comes time for Lucas to grow up and be a man, he chickens out, and the Deus ex Machina of his dead mother saves the day.

With Porky, we see all the twisted things he's done, but he never really seems to posses the power or greed we saw him growing towards in Mother 2.  Honestly, there wasn't a reason to have him in the game, and yet, he took over it.  It didn't fit.  It didn't fit the nature-based theme, it didn't fit Porky, and it didn't fit the Mother series.  Really, in the end, he took a bunch of crazy nutcases from the town of Tazmily and just made them slightly nuttier.  I know Earthbound and Mother are supposed to have quirky, weird characters, but the difference between Earthbound and Mother 3's characters is that in Earthbound, the characters know they're flawed, imperfect, and greedy.  In Mother 3, they're idiots portrayed as being the last, best people on the planet.  They're shallow and superficial from the very start, and unlike in Earthbound, the script isn't quite written as such.

Regardless, if there's one thing I know Mother 3 does too much of, it's carry out a joke for far too long.  The oxygen machines come to mind at this point.  They were slightly funny the first time.  Then jokes about them just kept popping up and kept popping up, and it just wore thin.  Likewise, the Magypsies got old pretty quickly, too.

It just felt too scatterbrained and too inconsistent of a game to be on par with Earthbound.  Like I said earlier, I think the straw that broke the camel's back was Leder and his speech for me, but there were quite a few things that contributed to what made me value the game much less than Earthbound.  Also, Boney should have been better.

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2010, 11:08:47 AM »
I'm now in Chapter 5. What percentage of the game would you say that I've played? I'm not going to complete it before we wrap up RetroActive, but I've tried hard to play as much as possible. (15+ hours now)
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2010, 01:17:06 PM »
I clocked in about 22 or 23 hours at the end of the game, so you are pretty far along. After 5 the only real significantly long chapter is 7. Chapter 6 honestly shouldn't even be called a chapter and chapter 8 isn't terribly long either.

Also, I don't know if anyone saw this, but last week Destructoid's game series debate to the death was the Mother series. Here are the results that the users there came up with. http://www.destructoid.com/game-series-debate-to-the-death-persona-series-180587.phtml
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 01:20:02 PM by Yankee »
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2010, 10:53:55 AM »
I will agree with thatguy and Mop it up with this: Mother 3 does seem to repeatedly commit the cardinal sin of writing: telling the audience about something rather than showing them.    As that guy mentioned, the story makes a point of telling us that Lucas is a crybaby and a little soft.  We see a little of this during the opening chapter, but by the time Lucas appears again, it seems that this problem has already been resolved.  When we see him again at the end of chapter 3, he comes to the rescue of your party rather heroically with the Dragos.  Once you take control of Lucas, I'm not sure you experience any character growth; it would have been more interesting to take the player along the journey to show how Lucas changed over time.   It would have been more interesting to experience that change with him in your party, even if it wasn't through his eyes.

Also, why not, at some point in the game show a flashback of how Hinawa saved Lucas and Claus?  The reveal of Hinawa's death worked for me...mostly because I know a little like what it felt like to be Flint.   Most anyone who has had a scary experience where you think you might lose your spouse or your child does know what that feels like.  Still, it would have been interesting at some point to see a flashback of Hinawa's heroism.  I have not reached the end of the game, so, to be fair, I don't know whether this is actually done.

I agree with the earlier comments about Flint's sacrifice in the final battle as well, and I watched part of a video that shows the final fight.  We're told that Flint sacrificed himself.  Why not show it?   Given that other RPGs like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI were doing this years ago, it seems strange that Mother 3 stays so rooted in the past in ways such as this one.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2010, 11:17:10 PM »
Well it's 4am here but I just finished Mother 3. Wow, I have to say overall it was a really enjoyable and ambitious experience, one that clearly had a ton of care and effort put into it. The writing is excellent and without it I have to admit there wouldn't be nearly as much to enthuse about. In some ways though I feel the experience was probably too ambitious for a portable product - the game is always good at providing regular savepoints but the endgame is very lengthy and as such not well equipped for portability. Perhaps it was partly for this reason that Mother 3 ended up reminding me a great deal of Ocarina of Time (the combination of the climb up the Empire Pork Building, the variety in the final battles and the final image of Osohe Castle being razed followed by the lengthy character credits - plus the latter had that nostalgia soaked feeling that certain Nintendo titles possess, and it was blatant about it too during the boat ride in the Empire Pork Building. An off-topic example of that incredible nostalgia in another game - Rainbow Road in Mario Kart 64 makes me well up every time). It really makes me wonder how things might've turned out differently had the game been realised in its prior conception as Earthbound 64.

Also I very much enjoyed the music battle system and after getting the hang of it it became quite satisfying, it definitely made enemies and bosses much easier and meant I was able to avoid grinding. The rolling counter is cool too and I like the way it's there to be exploited, it can force you to make decisions quickly or in the case of the final battle, very very slowly... In addition the music throughout the game is excellent. I especially love the song Snowman. I'm left wondering why the hell there isn't a single song on OCRemix...

Finally I have to say I'm slightly surprised to read comments about the game being unsatisfactory in comparison with Earthbound - I tried EB a few years ago and while I enjoyed aspects of it, such as the quirky humour and the battle system, I wasn't compelled to play it through to completion.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2010, 12:04:18 AM »
The music in both Mother 2 and Mother 3 is excellent. There was a remix project called Bound Together done for Earthbound. It can be found here: http://www.wushuplaya.com/boundtogether/
Although I do like the music in both games very much, I have to say that Earthbound has the slightly more memorable soundtrack. Duster's Theme, Snowman, Love Theme, and Mom's Hometown are my favorite tracks from this game though.

Also, while searching for Mother music just now I came across a fan music section on Starmen.net. http://starmen.net/fanmusic/
There may be some remixes of interest there.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 12:21:40 AM by Yankee »
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2010, 01:54:55 AM »
We didn't get a chance to talk about the music on RFN, but I have been underwhelmed by it overall.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2010, 10:41:45 PM »
We didn't get a chance to talk about the music on RFN, but I have been underwhelmed by it overall.

Really I think Mother 3 is the best OST Nintendo has produced outside of Brawl.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPf7F1Sljbc

This track in particular I think is really well done. And some of the later boss music is pretty amazing. The amount of varied battle music in this game is what makes the game so fun to play. I really think you should give the beat based battle system so more tries. It really takes a simplified battle system and turns into something really fun to play. Getting the timing right, especially for songs whose beats changes, is pretty fun.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2010, 01:21:43 PM »
I'm glad to see that my disappointment with Mother 3 isn't as unique as I'd thought.  It's still a solid game and a great RPG, but it just didn't measure up to Earthbound for me.  I think it's a combination of the things that have already been mentioned:  the tone of the game felt too inconsistent, the plot and characters never really gripped me (although I did like the final battle, and the game had several nice moments sprinkled throughout),  and the connection to Earthbound felt tacked on at best. 

RFN compared it to Chrono Cross, and I think that's appropriate:  you meet a character from the previous game early on, but until the end of the game there's little else to connect the two titles, and when the connection is made, it feels unsatisfying.  New Pork City really is a second Chronopolis.  Anyhow, I'm gald I played it, but it wasn't what I was expecting.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2010, 03:10:57 PM »
Pollyanna from Mother 1 is one of my favorite video game songs ever, but most of the Mother series tracks have too much dissonance and cacophony for my liking.  I do give Mother 3 major points for integrating the battle music into the gameplay, however.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2010, 06:54:21 PM »
I had to look up which tune was "Pollyanna" as I don't know them by name, and I totally agree that it is great. The rendition of it in Super Smash Brothers Melee (which is strangely titled "Mother 2" despite that it is more prominently featured in Mother 1) is quite possibly the single greatest piece of music ever composed. It's too bad the theme soon gets replaced when you get another party member, though fortunately I like that one as well (It's called Bein' Friends apparently). Though the music does seem a bit happy-go-lucky for a game where you get attacked by mob zombies and killer animals with every step.

As a whole, I don't think the Mother series soundtrack is anything spectacular, though Mother 1 has some pretty amazing compositions in it, it is by far the best of the three. There are some good tunes in the other two games but there's a lot of plain or atmospheric stuff too. Nothing really jumps out at me from Mother 3, and a couple I liked from 2 include the Onett and Fourside themes.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #77 on: August 12, 2010, 02:12:41 AM »
Hi. This is my first post here but I've been listening to RFN for years. Anyway, I just finished Mother 3 (though I feel like I'm missing out, I still need to play Earthbound). Here's what I thought of the game:
     I understand that I needed to pull the needles to save the world, but why did I need to pull the last needle? Didn't the one other person who could pull the needle just die? I'm also going to have to agree with most others that Leder's speech was boring and the worst way that the loose ends could have been tied in the story. I probably should have played Earthbound before playing this game, being that it is a sequel, but everything concerning Porky was somewhat confusing. Did he travel through time? Is this game supposed to be set in the same world as Earthbound? Having Claus as the final bad guy would have been satisfying for me. I don't think Porky was really necessary. Chapter 8 seems to be the main problem and the point where things went downhill. My brother, who has been watching me play the game, said what I had been thinking at the whole darkness scene at the end, "This is stupid."
     Though I had problems with the end of the game, I enjoyed most all of the rest . . . excluding Duster's chapter and the volcano portion where everything destroyed me until I saw that you could buy an item for fire protection. Some parts of the game were hilarious. Like when Boney walks on two legs and everyone comments how he smells like a dog. The Pigmasks were awesome, and enemy design in general was great. The battle music was better than most games (ugh, Golden Sun) and I found myself whisting along to some of it. On a side note, I read on Starmen.net that the soundtrack for one of the Mother games is on the US iTunes. I found that combos in battle became easier when I used a wired 360 gamepad to play. Anyway, I really enjoyed the 30 hours I spent playing Mother 3.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2010, 04:16:23 PM »
My goal is to finish Mother 3 in the next week. A friend is going to be in town visiting, so it will be a challenge finding the time. But with so many competing RPGs on my plate, I want to finish it now before it gets buried.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #80 on: August 19, 2010, 02:33:31 PM »
I finished Mother 3 last night and I have to agree with most everyone that the game starts to fall apart after Chapter 8.  Story-wise it isn't connected to the rest of the game at all.  It's also way too slow paced and much too much fighting, which has always been the weakest part of the series.

Also, nuts to Flint jumping in front of Lucas during the final battle--I was equipped with a PSI Shield, upped defense and a Counter.  Claus was toast!

Speaking of which, is it possible to defeat Claus in that battle?  You can't attack him directly, but you can use items and Counters to hurt him.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2010, 09:30:58 PM »
Speaking of which, is it possible to defeat Claus in that battle?  You can't attack him directly, but you can use items and Counters to hurt him.
A quick search brings up an answer: no. Although he does apparently have HP, it seems to work similar to Giygas in Earthbaound, in that the HP will replenish after every turn.

Also, I kept trying to attack him directly, but it rarely worked. It usually said things like "Lucas closed his eyes" *miss*, "Lucas doesn't know what to do anymore," etc. When it was successful, it said "Lucas felt heartbroken." Hinawa also said to stop attacking, I don't know if she says that normally.

By the way, did anyone else notice that "Claus" is an anagram of "Lucas"?

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #82 on: September 10, 2010, 02:14:02 AM »
I'm still playing Mother 3 and have put in quite a lot of time into it these past few days. I finally finished Chapter 7, which felt extremely long, and am now in New Pork City. No idea how much is left, but I have an open reservation with Neal to discuss the end-game stuff and bring in some of the spoiler comments from this thread on an upcoming RFN segment. The only obstacle right now is finishing the game!
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Offline vudu

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #83 on: September 10, 2010, 01:47:20 PM »
If you just got to chapter 8, you probably have another 2 to 3 hours left in the game.  Honestly, it was probably my least favorite chapter.  The end of the game is very battle-heavy which I feel makes it drag considerably.  Combined with the fact that the story suddenly gets a whole lot less interesting, I pretty much had to force myself to push through to the end.  It's not that there aren't funny parts in the last chapter--there are quite a few, in fact--but they're just spread so thin amongst the parts of the game that I never really liked all that much.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #84 on: September 10, 2010, 10:36:14 PM »
I liked parts of chapters 1, 3, 4, and 5. 2, 6, and 8 were tedious. 7 was just okay.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #85 on: September 10, 2010, 11:27:50 PM »
Which was the one with the monkey?  I liked that one.  Duster was pretty rad, too.
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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2010, 12:00:31 AM »
The monkey was 3. The battles in it were very tedious, but most everything else was good. 2 was the one with Duster, and aside from one particular scene with his father, it was a tedious grind.

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Re: Mother 3 - RetroActive #13 Discussion Thread
« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2010, 01:47:35 AM »
The monkey was 3. The battles in it were very tedious, but most everything else was good. 2 was the one with Duster, and aside from one particular scene with his father, it was a tedious grind.
I felt the same way about chapter 2.  I never saw the point in playing through most of a chapter using a single character whose special attacks consisted entirely of status effects that only lasted one or two turns.  If you don't have another character in your party that can take advantage of it, what's the point?  I really only found Duster's attacks to be useful with Mr. Passion.   Granted, I never made it past chapter 5.
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