Author Topic: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'  (Read 216599 times)

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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #575 on: August 27, 2009, 04:54:45 AM »
Well, if the games are less popular, then they have to decide if covering the game is worth it for their budget.  Can't expect them to buy every game that comes out.

If you're going to argue that they don't regard any 3rd party Wii title as relevant enough to purchase for review, well then I'll concede that point; that is often the case.

I mean minor games like Little King's Story.

Offline mac<censored>

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #576 on: August 27, 2009, 05:25:25 AM »
I mean minor games like Little King's Story.

Speaking of which, what's the consensus on this?

I've been looking forward to this game for ages, and it's coming out here soon...

Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #577 on: August 27, 2009, 07:28:34 AM »
I mean minor games like Little King's Story.

Speaking of which, what's the consensus on this?

I've been looking forward to this game for ages, and it's coming out here soon...


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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #578 on: August 27, 2009, 08:18:40 AM »
Let's just dump third parties and move on to the next best thing: FOURTH PARTIES.

Folks, these parties can move through space AND time.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #579 on: August 27, 2009, 11:47:15 AM »
Let's just dump third parties and move on to the next best thing: FOURTH PARTIES.

Folks, these parties can move through space AND time.

Is Actiblizzion considered a 4th party? they did travel back in time to bring us the Wii port of CoD:MW and that will be taking up space on the store shelves.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 03:04:18 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #580 on: August 27, 2009, 12:11:03 PM »
Aren't those just 3rd parties that come-n-go/close up shop?

time:  they do some work for a while, then, not

space:  one month there's a building full of employees, the next, it's space for lease
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #581 on: August 27, 2009, 12:27:22 PM »
Aren't those just 3rd parties that come-n-go/close up shop?

time:  they do some work for a while, then, not

space:  one month there's a building full of employees, the next, it's space for lease

:GRIN;

Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #582 on: August 27, 2009, 01:13:10 PM »
Third parties will never see straight towards Nintendo thanks to Sony and their hate. Yet for all the love third parties gave the PSX/2, I really doubt alot of the games made for the system (sans Resi and FF) sold well. This is basically happening with the PS3/360. They show alot of unbiased love towards HD, tout big budgets, and the game bombs, hard.

If Wii was HD (which is isn't due to Nintendo not wanting to sink money into a ship that may have sunk), it wouldn't get the amount of half-assed flak it gets from third parties losing money. Only difference is we would get games in colors other then BROWN. And the game budgets would've increased for Nintendo's studios.

Also, let's look at Hideo Kojima, my favorite game person. Nothing says "troll" like the fact he's still being forced to make MGS games.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #583 on: August 27, 2009, 03:02:19 PM »
Also, let's look at Hideo Kojima, my favorite game person. Nothing says "troll" like the fact he's still being forced to make MGS games.

Even worse, he's butchering Castlevania as we speak.

Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #584 on: August 27, 2009, 07:18:33 PM »
That, and despite all his love for the original Mario, Shiggy and Smash Bros, he treats us Nintendo fans like devils spawn.

I wonder when those Konami shackles will be undone.
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Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #585 on: August 27, 2009, 07:30:06 PM »
Third parties will never see straight towards Nintendo thanks to Sony and their hate. Yet for all the love third parties gave the PSX/2, I really doubt alot of the games made for the system (sans Resi and FF) sold well. This is basically happening with the PS3/360. They show alot of unbiased love towards HD, tout big budgets, and the game bombs, hard.

If Wii was HD (which is isn't due to Nintendo not wanting to sink money into a ship that may have sunk), it wouldn't get the amount of half-assed flak it gets from third parties losing money. Only difference is we would get games in colors other then BROWN. And the game budgets would've increased for Nintendo's studios.

Also, let's look at Hideo Kojima, my favorite game person. Nothing says "troll" like the fact he's still being forced to make MGS games.

Are you really saying that third parties choose not to publish games on the Wii because Sony badmouths Nintendo?  You know, as opposed to reviewing data and sales from other 3rd party Wii sales.....
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #586 on: August 27, 2009, 07:57:17 PM »
If reviewing data and sales means depending on game industry "analysts," then Sony playing Spin the Bottle to decide what 3rd parties should do with Wii is just as plausible.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #587 on: August 27, 2009, 09:08:48 PM »
If reviewing data and sales means depending on game industry "analysts," then Sony playing Spin the Bottle to decide what 3rd parties should do with Wii is just as plausible.
Pro just answered your question, D.

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Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #588 on: August 27, 2009, 09:47:04 PM »
If reviewing data and sales means depending on game industry "analysts," then Sony playing Spin the Bottle to decide what 3rd parties should do with Wii is just as plausible.

Who the hell needs analysts?  Just look at the numbers for mature titles in the last 18 months. 
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #589 on: August 28, 2009, 12:34:40 AM »
COMPANIES NEED ANALYSTS.  Who the hell do you think they hire to look at those numbers?  Famous Game Designers like Shigeru Miyamoto?  They pay analysts $$$$$ to provide "questionable" "advice" to support/confirm the "questionable" "ideas" they flutter in their little bird brains to achieve the terrible performance we've seen already.

Look at what mature titles were released AT ALL in the last 18 months.  Look at which of those mature titles looked like successful regular any-platform mature titles you'd see in the past 18 years.  Look at who DIDN'T BOTHER to release regular mature titles.  Without the regular streams of mature titles competing in that same casual platform, how the hell can valid comparisons be made?

BUT WAIT, you don't have to answer ANY OF THAT, cuz the companies aren't going to pay attention to interwebbers like you.  Or I.

They're going to hire analysts for that.

Remember, analysts said "PS3 will be the real winner by a long way by end of 2007, 2008, 20XX, etc.  Bet BIG on the PS3, game publishers!"
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 12:36:38 AM by NinGurl69 *huggles »
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #590 on: August 28, 2009, 01:13:09 AM »
Quote
Are you really saying that third parties choose not to publish games on the Wii because Sony badmouths Nintendo?  You know, as opposed to reviewing data and sales from other 3rd party Wii sales.....

If that were true, I expect all Japanese third parties to make 100% Wii games starting yesterday, as Wii is home to the most successful third party game in Japan.

Or they'll just keep dipping into the data until they get the results they want, despite all this "objective" study.
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Offline Djunknown

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #591 on: August 28, 2009, 02:58:10 AM »
An addendum to the editorial I put up a little while ago. Basically, its not a attack at Nintendo directly, but on NoA. As the author notes in the beginning:

Quote
Although I wasn't totally sold on the Wii at first, at this point in its life cycle, all of my initial gripes with the system (weak online, storage space issues, limited 3rd-party line up) have more or less been fixed. Even if they weren't, the console's library would still be a better fit for me than what the other home consoles have going on right now. The PS3/360's focus on 3D "realistic" graphics, Hollywood action movie-style scenarios, and online competition just isn't for me. Sure, the 360 and the PS3 each have seven or eight exclusives that I truly love, but that's nothing compared to the over thirty Wii games that I consider "must-own" titles.

Then we get to the nitty gritty:

Quote
Now, I don't want to duplicate too much of what Jim said in his article, but I do need to start off by restating the most obvious problem with NoA: they lie, and badly. Of all the "in defense of Nintendo" blogs and comments I've read over the years, I've never heard this point disputed. NoA figureheads like Reggie, Cammie, and Denise come off as untrustworthy car salespeople at best, and underhanded politicians at worst. They are liars, and we know it.

A few more choice quotes:

Quote
NoA won't publish risky, potentially unprofitable games like Fatal Frame IV, Captain Rainbow, Trace Memory 2, Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, Mother 3, Disaster: Day of Crisis, and many others, because they care more about the bottom line than they care about distributing art. Where NoJ tries to make enough money so they can make more games, NoA only publishes games so they can make more money. That's the fundamental difference between an artist and businessman, or in this case, an art dealer.

Quote
What do you think Nintendo of Europe thought when Reggie publicly dissed Disaster: Day of Crisis just after it launched in the UK? If someone who worked for NoE had said that, you can bet your ass they would have been fired that day. Not so with Reggie and the gang. The phenomenon smacks of something I call "the Michael Jackson effect." Really, who's going to tell Reggie that he comes off like a phony who could give a rat's ass about what Nintendo really stands for? Not someone who wants to keep their job, that's who.

Quote
I write this article not out of malice, but out of genuine nerd-concern. As you've probably figured out, I love Nintendo of Japan. Although a lot of people in America seem worried about the direction they're headed in, I'm not concerned at all, because they are still focused on putting games and gamers first. The problem with Nintendo and their public face all falls on Nintendo of America, who seem determined to put up barriers between Americans and the products of Nintendo of Japan.

So what do you think? Is NoA part of the problem? Did NoA make the right call by not releasing Captain Rainbow, Disaster: Day of Crisis and so on?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #592 on: August 28, 2009, 04:08:05 AM »
So what do you think? Is NoA part of the problem? Did NoA make the right call by not releasing Captain Rainbow, Disaster: Day of Crisis and so on?

Yeah, I saw that article pop up earlier in the day and overall I can find little to argue with.  Nintendo of America just seems extremely unwilling to experiment with localizing Wii games, and I find it hard to believe that all of that is under Nintendo Corporate's orders.  As the writer notes, if Nintendo Corporate just dictates to Reggie what it wants brought over, why do we need Reggie in the first place?  Even as recent as the GameCube era Nintendo of America was willing to do a little experimentation (after all, this is the company that brought over Baten Kaitos Origins and ensured it got a fantastic localization when there wasn't a chance in hell of that game selling well), but ever since the Wii became this mass-market sensation they've just been rather meh.  I have no problem with their work (Nintendo's localizations are better than ever), just that there doesn't seem to be any ambition or passion into the customer service side of the business.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #593 on: August 28, 2009, 12:41:51 PM »
Disaster: DOC has no problem coming over here, it's action with a healthy amount of cheese.

Captain Rainbow, from what I read, has some questionable content that makes me think Treehouse would have a hellish time trying to translate. Figuring out Birdo's gender would be funny... to the long time Nintendo fan, but some people might find that offensive.

And Nintendo skipping over games isn't new. It took NoA an entire GBA generation to bring Starfy over, it took them TWO to get Sin and Punishment. They can bring out the games, they just take their sweet time...

And lose alot of their fans in the process.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #594 on: August 28, 2009, 12:46:27 PM »
Nintendo is going about this "OK" from a business standpoint.  From my customer standpoint, I simply want access to local versions of these games.  But if these games have shown to be niche-niche-flop-bomb-tanks, Nintendo's not going to serve just a handful of interested interwebbers.

I bet it's related to why they historically didn't bring over Japan's customer reward goodies, and why we see less (and weaker) pre-order goodies for localized Japanese games across the board:  the logistics aren't favorable.  USA is much larger geographically, larger in market, yet less dense in gamer population than Japan, so it's not unreasonable to say it'll cost much more to send these freebies out (and how much should be produced in the first place?).  So in the case of the games, why commit resources to send them out to meet a severely niche percentage of the audience?  Maybe 2 copies to every GameStop?  More like the GameStops and retailers at large aren't budging to request stock for them or have shown initial interest in the first place; probably not worthy of etailer-exclusive or Wal-Mart exclusive either.  Electroplankton, lucky you, you're certainly special.

More later...
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #595 on: August 28, 2009, 01:04:56 PM »
What's funny about that editorial is he acts like Nintendo Co. Ltd. ("Nintendo of Japan" doesn't exist) is somehow tied down by NoA's decisions, as if NoA is the parent company.

Like Rorschach says, "God saw everything that went on that night, and he didn't seem to have a problem with it."

And Nintendo not localizing high quality video games is probably a strategy to get third parties to not be scared off by Nintendo's dominance of their own platform, due to high quality video games that sell well made by Nintendo.  Of course, that was just a ruse by third parties to get Nintendo to stop publishing some games so they can continue to ignore the Wii and hopefully drive down demand for the Wii, because they hate it (and this accusation is supported by the facts and will stand until major movement turns in Nintendo's favor from third parties.)

And there's also the "grass is greener" factor, where some of these games are only loved because they "AREN'T" over here.  I mean Trace Memory 2?  The first game was a poster child for Nintendo being "casual" now it's some kind of necessary bone to throw hardcores?  Puh-leeze.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #596 on: August 28, 2009, 02:03:05 PM »
...later is NOW.

Another Code Revolution - do want.  no questions asked.  These advenchuure games shouldn't but limited to just DS and people's fond memories of old distant years of innocent gaming.

Disaster: Disaster in Localization - do want.  I hear it's a neat, likable game, according to some Aussies.  But it's more like a game you'd expect from some other Japanese publisher like Namco and not a robust, thoroughly QA/QC'd Nintendo product, a quirky instance that makes you question why Nintendo bothered to authorize this one real-world-setting action game while having no hint of plans to make any other action games.

Fatal Frame - do want, in theory.  I heard it's broken.  Grasshopper was hired to make the game, Tecmo had oversight over Grasshopper, Nintendo published the game for Tecmo.  Nintendo deemed the game was broken, Tecmo didn't care to fix anything, and Grasshopper is spending their time wisely not dealing with Tecmo anymore.  Nintendo is the big loser once again, having to deal with Tecmo for Other Mush.  I don't want a broken horror game; I've played and completed Obscure: The Aftermath.

==GAMECUBE==

Baten Kaitos and Tales of Symphonia, from my understanding, were lucky to exist outside of Japan because Nintendo was desperate for meaty 3rd Party games and Namco wanted a bigger RPG presence in the West and take advantage of a platform with little competition, so Nintendo went ahead and paid the bill for localization and helped promote the titles.  That was nice of them, bringing decent new product to new audiences in a substantial way.

==Wii==

Fast forward to Wuu, and I'm sure Nintendo expected 3rd Party support by simply being the market leader, without the necessity of moneyhats.  Localization?  3rd Parties shouldn't need help with localization!  They're big grand ol' 3rd Parties!  They shouldn't have trouble funding projects they're committed to!  If they care, they'll do what they need to do.  To compete, they have to... COMPETE.  But since they don't make the kinds of games Nintendo does, then they don't really have competition to worry about!  Just release those 3rd Party games as 3rd Party game makers do.  Nintendo shouldn't have to lift a finger for them, cuz 3rd Parties are so smart and powerful together and way more important to the industry than Nintendo.

Nintendo is doing the righteous thing, saying "those guys can figure it out for themselves."

Can they?

=D
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #597 on: August 28, 2009, 10:20:27 PM »
I can let you know how I feel about Disaster. I'm partially through it. I'll get back to you once I'm further.
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Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #598 on: August 28, 2009, 11:46:48 PM »
Wow.  Its so strange that 3rd parties refuse to make mature titles for the Wii when clearly, they would sell millions.  Strange business decision.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #599 on: August 29, 2009, 12:28:42 AM »
Wow.  Its so strange that 3rd parties refuse to make high-quality titles for the Wii when clearly, they would sell millions, should they be high-quality, competitive to Nintendo products, and marketed as if they were proud of their effort.  Strange business decision.

Fixed.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 12:30:36 AM by Deguello »
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