Author Topic: Mario Kart 8 Review  (Read 95614 times)

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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #100 on: May 16, 2014, 05:02:00 PM »
I've watched a movie with my friends that I thought was terrible and when I started complaining about it, I found out they all liked it. They'd agree with some of my points but it worked for them they said. It boggles my mind how they could like it despite very clear reasons and examples of stupidity. Now, if we were to write reviews of the movie, my score would be much lower than theirs. However, according to you, I should recognize that other people will rate it higher and I need to adjust my score to be a bit higher otherwise I'm being disingenious and not following the crowd for the sake of trying to display "independent" thought. And heaven help me if I bring down the Metacritic score! Moreover, if I had seen the movie on my own and not with my friends, I'd have assumed that everyone felt like me and would be ranking the movie the same way. How am I supposed to figure out they liked it? Knowing they liked it, however, doesn't change how I felt about the movie or what I think are legitamate complaints against it and I feel like there are other people who would feel the same as me so I'm going to write a review and score it based on my own experience with it. If people disagree with it, so be it, but it's just my honest assessment of it.

What movie are you referring to?  I'm asking both because I'm genuinely curiuos AND it'll spawn more interesting discussion than the bickering over a review score.

Transformers. The first one. I've never watched any of the others after it.
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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #101 on: May 16, 2014, 05:04:18 PM »
Those Transformers movies were really popular and made a lot of money. You're just saying you don't like it as clickbait.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #102 on: May 16, 2014, 05:06:36 PM »
You're just saying that since I covered my house in advertising banners and billboards and give my people my home address to come over and complain if they don't like my low-scoring reviews.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #103 on: May 16, 2014, 05:49:16 PM »
pokepal, I didn't say the low score was to bring down Metacritic. I said, here's the expected window of scores. NWR is an outlier. Outliers are often done as clickbate.

Or it could be a person who legitimately didn't enjoy the game. Considering how you have failed to prove your 'clickbate' (it's spelled clickbait btw) theory and almost everyone seems to agree with the whole 'didn't enjoy the game sentiment' I feel you are at the losing end of that debate

Quote
I saw the review, disagreed with the methods used to dock points down to what I consider clickbate level
so in your opinion it's clickbait, well I'm pretty sure opinion /= fact.

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My issue is more the integrity of the review than the score. If the game played like crap, or if it played at a level just much lower than what we've come to expect, then fine. Take away points as needed.
so you say that your issue is not with the score but with the "integrity of the review"(what the hell does that even mean) and are now trying to tell us what is apparently ok or not ok to take points off for.
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Instead, points were taken away for not including things that didn't need to be included.
you mean as in features, content, those things? You know that add value to a game?

Quote
and for Mario Kart TV (a bell and/or whistle at most) not being anything special.
MKTV has been heavily hyped by Nintendo, it better be good.

Offline Oblivion

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #104 on: May 16, 2014, 08:22:12 PM »
Outliers are often done as clickbate


 :Q :Q :Q :Q :Q :Q :Q :Q :Q


So, no one can never not dislike a game? You've never seen a work of entertainment that someone, anyone, didn't like? Why should they up their score .5 just to make it more in line with the average of other websites?

Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #105 on: May 16, 2014, 08:29:57 PM »
Updated video review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_TIxmicilg&feature=youtu.be


As Jared said, we tried something different with the original video review (more stream of conscious following an outline) and as those who saw it can attest, it didn't really work. The new video review is a slightly modified version of the written review.


In general, we'll be experimenting with video reviews (and other video content, like Curt's weekly news show) over the coming months. In retrospect, maybe this review wasn't the best one to mess around with. But honestly, despite allegations otherwise, I didn't think this review would be as much of an outlier as it was.


As I've said before in this thread and other places, I'm sorry if you are upset by the review. It wasn't done maliciously. It wasn't done to be different.


I wrote and scored the review this way because Mario Kart 8 felt formulaic to me in a way no other Mario Kart has felt like before, even with the zero-g stuff, MKTV, online, etc. I enjoyed it, and likely, if all you want is more Mario Kart, you'll enjoy it even more than I did.


The single-player is a major component to me, and I even played some of Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed and Crash Team Racing this week to reaffirm how I felt. Those single-player modes are engaging to me. MK8's isn't. Multiplayer is fun and all, but to me, that's not the entire game.


Also, for real, new battle mode is rough. I tried so hard to try to get into it, but like 1 out of every 10 matches was fun.
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Offline Halbred

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #106 on: May 16, 2014, 09:33:58 PM »
Every write a giant post because you're super angry but then you don't post it because it'll just be bad for everybody involved?


I just did that. Then deleted it.


I'll say this:


Expecting a review to read and be scored to a certain level before playing the game (No, listen, you didn't play the game), seeing a score and text that doesn't fulfill your personal expectations, then getting angry at the reviewer for not writing to those expectations, is revolving. This is exactly why I hate the review process.


Buy the game, play the game, enjoy the game. Neal and Daan's reviews DON'T. MATTER. They are OPINIONS. If you are letting THEIR opinions influence YOUR emotional state, THAT IS ON YOU. NOBODY is responsible for YOUR reaction to ANYTHING except for YOURSELF.


JESUS.
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Offline ResettisCousin

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2014, 09:39:07 PM »
So Zach, why should this site have reviews if they don't matter, and why should the reviews have a talkback feature if the comments shouldn't reply directly to the review? I mean, I know you're still working through your anger at the n-Space guy, but looking past that…?

Offline Halbred

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #108 on: May 16, 2014, 09:47:30 PM »
Look. This is exactly why I don't like the review process. People question your OPINION.


This has nothing to do with n-Space (that was specific to them--I won't go into the inside baseball with that).


This has to do with any review, not just on our website. If reviewer X from site Y gives Halo 4 a review and scores it anything below an 8, people will go apeshit. That particular reviewer just didn't like the game as much as other people. That's it. No conspiracy.


People have unfair expectations. Bottom line. It's not my job to meet your expectations which I don't know ahead of time, and even if I did, I don't really care. So I get angry when people get angry when their personal expectations are not being met. It's so useless.


In a perfect world, game reviews would not exist. If people can't have a civil discussion, then they don't get to HAVE a discussion.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #109 on: May 16, 2014, 10:33:29 PM »
Zach is absolutely right. Talkback still serves a purpose, and I think we all welcome constructive criticism, fact-checking, and especially further discussion from those readers who have played the game. This is an unusual situation in which Nintendo facilitated reviews being published well before the game'a release. People who don't like the outcome here have come armed with the phantom sword of other people's opinions to fight in a proxy war of words. We can only defend our editorial integrity, and most of you can only assume that you won't agree with every word of Neal and Daan's reviews once you play it yourselves. Rather than ask questions of those who do have the game, you arrive with attacks predicated upon your own ignorance. Get bent.
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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #110 on: May 16, 2014, 10:52:12 PM »
Maybe we should tell Nintendo to make sure not to give us any kind of advance copies in the future to prevent this from happening again.
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Offline Phil

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #111 on: May 16, 2014, 10:53:55 PM »
I find reviews like these helpful because when I finally get to play the game, I can watch for the things mentioned and see if they bother me as much as the reviewer. These are things that I might not have otherwise thought about, so it's awesome to read about them and think about them while playing.

tl;dr: This is a sorry excuse for a review. J/K hehe
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #112 on: May 16, 2014, 11:22:42 PM »
Maybe we should tell Nintendo to make sure not to give us any kind of advance copies in the future to prevent this from happening again.
Are you even on an embargo like are there things like unrevealed characters who you can't talk about?

Offline latterdayrasta

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #113 on: May 16, 2014, 11:40:35 PM »
Zach is absolutely right. Talkback still serves a purpose, and I think we all welcome constructive criticism, fact-checking, and especially further discussion from those readers who have played the game. This is an unusual situation in which Nintendo facilitated reviews being published well before the game'a release. People who don't like the outcome here have come armed with the phantom sword of other people's opinions to fight in a proxy war of words. We can only defend our editorial integrity, and most of you can only assume that you won't agree with every word of Neal and Daan's reviews once you play it yourselves. Rather than ask questions of those who do have the game, you arrive with attacks predicated upon your own ignorance. Get bent.


I'm honestly shocked by the thin skin demonstrated by the staff of this site. Outside of a few mean spirited comments, most of what has been said has started as constructive criticism of the review. Instead of engaging in an intelligent discussion of the review process and acknowledging some flaws in this review, the staffers have spoke with a single voice in protecting their friend from the "bullies" attacking Neal. I hoped for a more mature response.


Most people who commented here did not come to burn Neal in effigy. I have respect for Neal, but I have issues with the approach of this review. I couldn't care less if he gave the game a 2 or a 20. I wanted to discuss the optimal way that games should be evaluated. It's not too late to take this discussion in a more constructive direction.


In contrast to his defenders on staff, Neal has taken the criticism very humbly. He has responded by answering a few questions and has resisted the urge to fire back. Kudos to you, Neal. I already had respect for you, and that has only increased.

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #114 on: May 16, 2014, 11:45:36 PM »
I wasn't trying to defend Neal from constructive criticism. We welcome that. I was more going after people insisting he had some ulterior motive for the score he posted and misspelled accusations of clickbait.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #115 on: May 16, 2014, 11:46:19 PM »
None of you know anything about Kart racing otherwise we'd all be talking about M&M's Kart Racing and how it has set the bar which no game has been able to surpass yet.

Unfortunately, Gamezone and IGN decided to clikbate up the whole metacritic score with a 20 and 25 ranking respectively. Didn't they take into account what other critics were going to score it at and adjust their scores accordingly? DewritosPope gave it a 10 out of 10 and said: "Truly one of the best games i've ever played in my life, definitely the citizen kane moment in video game history, i really wish we would have gotten a sequel." However, despite this positive response, Gamezone and IGN clearly conspired to give this game a negative review to score more advertising green and hurt the sales of another Wii game thereby making sure the Wii would fail.

IGN's review mentions "There's no four-player mode, and no battle mode." I'm sick of reviewers criticising a game for what they think it should offer and deducting it points for not being something it's not. They wanted to see it do something like Cranky's Flight School in Donkey Kong Barrel Blast. That's not M&M's Kart Racing so it seems unfair to penalize it for asking M&M's Kart Racing to not be M&M's Kart Racing.

Even worse, the reviewer then tells you "to become a Reese's Pieces fan instead." Not only does the reviewer drone on about how he hates how much an M&M's Kart Racing game feels like an M&M's Kart Racing game he goes out of his way to insult the fine people at the Mars Chocolate company and the wonderful products they put out and with that ruined all respectability that site had gained over the years. Never have I been so disgusted by an opinion... is this what modern journalism has come to? Comparing a fantastic game to some old candy this shallow journalist experimented with once in College because everyone was doing it with Reese's back then? The analogy is nothing short of embarrassing.

You'd think I was done burying this reviewer but I'm not stopping at 6 feet. I'm taking this son-of-a-gun straight to hell. He had the gall to say that the game "offers about as much fun as a half-eaten bag of Peanut style." How could you not enjoy half a bag of peanut M&M'S?!? That reviewer should realize that this product doesn't match his personal tastes anymore and find someone who can look at it from a less jaded perspective. And why no mention of regular, pretzel or almond M&M'S? Would the game be as fun as those? The review is seriously lacking in details and leaves out all kinds of important factors like that.

That is by far the most unprofessional review of any type of media I have ever had the displeasure to read/watch. And because of it, now we are all stuck having to play the lousy Mario Kart series because there's nothing else in the Kart genre to play. And I know it's lousy because NWR gave it a 75%. Even though Metacritic calls that a POSITIVE score and lists Mario Kart 8 as having a 100% positive reviews, I can read between the lines and realize that the series is clearly not liked very much.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #116 on: May 17, 2014, 12:01:01 AM »
Zach is absolutely right. Talkback still serves a purpose, and I think we all welcome constructive criticism, fact-checking, and especially further discussion from those readers who have played the game. This is an unusual situation in which Nintendo facilitated reviews being published well before the game'a release. People who don't like the outcome here have come armed with the phantom sword of other people's opinions to fight in a proxy war of words. We can only defend our editorial integrity, and most of you can only assume that you won't agree with every word of Neal and Daan's reviews once you play it yourselves. Rather than ask questions of those who do have the game, you arrive with attacks predicated upon your own ignorance. Get bent.


I'm honestly shocked by the thin skin demonstrated by the staff of this site. Outside of a few mean spirited comments, most of what has been said has started as constructive criticism of the review. Instead of engaging in an intelligent discussion of the review process and acknowledging some flaws in this review, the staffers have spoke with a single voice in protecting their friend from the "bullies" attacking Neal. I hoped for a more mature response.

There may be some people that are trying to leave constructive criticism but there were also a few people that came on here just to judge and be flippant about the review and reviewer. Then it just makes all criticism seem as complaining for the sake of complaining and seem like a witch hunt for someone having the gall to have a different opinion. I also question how many people actually come here for reviews all the time and are making a complaint because the review didn't do enough to explain different game elements. I notice that most of the regulars here have very few complaints about the review but it is a lot of the sudden new population who are asking or criticising things about it.

It's funny. This hullaballo about the review has made me realize that I hardly use reviews for my gaming purchases anymore. When it comes to established series, I know ahead of time whether I'll buy it or not. In fact, I'll skip reviews to avoid spoilers. Generally, it's only if a game is an unknown or new IP that I'll check them out a bit more. However, I still do check out various reviews from this site and I've never had a problem understanding the reviewers viewpoint and I can't recall any instance where I didn't think the person reviewing the game was being unfair to it. The latest review I checked out somewhere else was IGN's Kirby: Triple Deluxe review. I wonder if after reading that people would still think this Mario Kart 8 review was being unfair.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2014, 12:22:39 AM »
Quote from: Khushrenada the greatest poster of all time and the only person worth quoting
I can't recall any instance where I didn't think the person reviewing the game was being unfair to it.

Ha ha ha. Whoops. That should just be fair not unfair. Gotta love Talkback errors.
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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2014, 12:25:39 AM »
Quote from: Khushrenada the greatest poster of all time and the only person worth quoting
I can't recall any instance where I didn't think the person reviewing the game was being unfair to it.

Ha ha ha. Whoops. That should just be fair not unfair. Gotta love Talkback errors.

Freudian slip.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #119 on: May 17, 2014, 12:29:15 AM »
Yeah, I don't think it's "constructive" to accuse the staff on the site of lying and creating clickbait articles.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #120 on: May 17, 2014, 12:33:19 AM »
Quote from: Khushrenada the greatest poster of all time and the only person worth quoting
I can't recall any instance where I didn't think the person reviewing the game was being unfair to it.

Ha ha ha. Whoops. That should just be fair not unfair. Gotta love Talkback errors.

Freudian slip.

No, just an error in speech that occurred due to the interference of an unconscious train of thought guided by the ego and the rules of correct behaviour. I don't know what you'd call that.
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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #121 on: May 17, 2014, 12:34:16 AM »

Yeah, I don't think it's "constructive" to accuse the staff on the site of lying and creating clickbait articles.

Unless what you're trying to "construct" is hostility and your own inevitable downfall.
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Offline Sundoulos

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #122 on: May 17, 2014, 08:35:06 AM »
Clearly this thread demonstrates why game reviewers are among history's greatest monsters.

Seriously, though, I've never really understood why people get emotionally invested in a review to the point where they feel it necessary to attack the integrity of the reviewer.   Given that a good bit of the criticism of the review has gone in this direction, I don't blame the staff for defending Daan and Neal.   I love games as much as the next person, but among the myriad of things that I could choose to get upset about in this world, game reviews are pretty much at the bottom of the list. 

For the record, I think I'm probably going to really enjoy this game in spite of its shortcomings.  I'm not in love with their decisions about the Battle Mode.   I haven't enjoyed the battles in any of the games since the N64 days;  I don't think that it's been well-executed since that time, sadly.   If this is the direction that they are going with it, at this point I probably wouldn't miss it if they eschewed the mode all together.   What does appeal to me about MK8 is the design of the race tracks; the themes are largely the same, but the tracks just seem very creative this time around.   I thought the track design in MK Wii was okay, and I'm probably in the minority in thinking that the tracks in Double Dash were just boring, but something about the design of the MK8 tracks appeals to me.  Maybe I'll feel differently when I experience the game, but I'm still pretty hyped about it right now.
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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2014, 10:22:54 AM »
Qbert's suggestion of "click bait" has drawn a lot of feedback from the NWR establishment. I'm sure the ad revenue from additional metacritic clicks is minimal at best- although I'm also sure having the lowest score on metacritic does generate additional traffic. I believe Neal that that wasn't his goal, and I appreciate that he's been mostly even in his replies to the feedback. Also, the redone video review is an improvement. But is the idea that the site might use a big game to provoke interest and maybe "stick it" to a Nintendo perceived as dangerously conservative so outrageous, given that last month the site published "Three Reasons Why I'm Not Excited For MK8" and "MK8's Use of the Gamepad is Disappointing?"

Offline Oblivion

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Re: Mario Kart 8 Review
« Reply #124 on: May 17, 2014, 11:35:17 AM »
Oh no, they released two articles that gave their opinion again. In an editorial. Which, by definition, is an opinion piece.