Topic: Who Turned Out the Lights?

[NWR_Lindy]

Are there some good YouTube videos we can look at for comparison?  That would be helpful.

[MegaByte]

Once you've discovered which surfaces light up a little, you *might* get them to make the tiniest flash by using your gun (or if they're too big, you might not).

By reigning in the lighting so tightly, they prevent any vertex lighting artifacts and they keep the frame rate high.

Given the former sentence, the framerate conclusion doesn't make a lot of sense.  It sounds more like a stylistic choice, but I have not played Prime 3, so I can't comment further.

[Jonnyboy117]

High-five, guys!

This isn't a competition.  Grow up.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"Corruption has virtually no dynamic lighting."

There's a virtually absolute statement.  And it doesn't hold up.

"I also tested bombs and morph ball mode.  Bombs make a big pretty explosion with a giant glowing halo effect, but that's not dynamic lighting that's just a glowing texture."

The "dynamic lighting" in the previous Prime games were just glowing triangles, that lit up and travelled along with some source, whether it's a standard Power Beam pellet or a rolling Morph Ball.  They lit up per triangle, not exclusively the texture.  The different speeds produce different impressions, but it's the same principle effect among all 3 games.  We're dealing with the same GameCube tech in all 3 games, afterall.  The same technique is emphasized for flashlight lighting in Resident Evil 4 and Eternal Darkness.  The lighting appearance looks more appealing and gradual when there's an abundance of triangles, traditionally on main characters (Prime 2, REmake, RE4).

Prime3 just has clearly different aesthetic priorities.  Beam Weapon lighting may have been a big deal in the first Prime in the first year of GameCube's life, but it's old news.  Bloom is the new baby, and dynamic triangle gimmicks have been de-emphasized.  Sanctuary Fortress in Prime2 comprised a good 1/3 of the game, and the majority of Prime3 became a techno-wonderland (as opposed to earthy-organic), with many surfaces blooming just for the sake of blooming.  Additionally, Prime3 surfaces don't light up unless the "source" is close enough -- in Prime1&2, everything seemed to want to light up anyway, otherwise you just didn't see other eye candy alternatives applied, just reliable dull surfaces.

I'm also under the suspicion that bloom lighting isn't "compatible" with the glowing triangle method, and bloom will have priority.  The bloom on a surface can be sufficiently bright, and I won't see them lit by Beam Weapons at all -- no superposition, no combined color values to produce greater brightness intensity.

Prime3 has no depth-of-field blurring.
StarFox Adventures > Metroid Prime 3

What's missing in Prime3 isn't the dynamic lighting, it's those dark earthy/organic environments that we spent so much time in the previous games that helped highlight the lighting.  WE ALSO DON'T HAVE A WATER STAGE.



"Are there some good YouTube videos we can look at for comparison?  That would be helpful."

No.

[KDR_11k]

Meh, this thread was tl;dr

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Wise choice.

[vudu]

Are there some good SSV videos we can look at for comparison?  That would be helpful.

Fixed for Pro.

[Rize]

"Corruption has virtually no dynamic lighting."

There's a virtually absolute statement.  And it doesn't hold up.

I realize that now don't I. 

Unfortunately the site is set up currently so that I can't edit my own blog post once it's posted.  So I'll either have to request an update to the blog post which will take some time.  I'll happily admit that I was slightly wrong and that you were the one that set me straight.  Instead, of Prime 3 having "virtually no dynamic lighting", it should be "...practically no dynamic lighting, excepting morph ball bombs and a few other odds and ends.  In particular, beams do pretty much nothing now..."  Or whatever.

The "dynamic lighting" in the previous Prime games were just glowing triangles, that lit up and travelled along with some source, whether it's a standard Power Beam pellet or a rolling Morph Ball.  They lit up per triangle, not exclusively the texture.  The different speeds produce different impressions, but it's the same principle effect among all 3 games.  We're dealing with the same GameCube tech in all 3 games, afterall.  The same technique is emphasized for flashlight lighting in Resident Evil 4 and Eternal Darkness.  The lighting appearance looks more appealing and gradual when there's an abundance of triangles, traditionally on main characters (Prime 2, REmake, RE4).

And that's all the dynamic lighting is in Prime 3, except there's a lot less of it.  By the way, bloom lighting isn't dynamic lighting, it's just an overly saturated texture that pulses a little bit.  It doesn't cast light on its surrounding (barring additional programming which Prime 3 doesn't have).

Prime3 just has clearly different aesthetic priorities.  Beam Weapon lighting may have been a big deal in the first Prime in the first year of GameCube's life, but it's old news.  Bloom is the new baby, and dynamic triangle gimmicks have been de-emphasized.  Sanctuary Fortress in Prime2 comprised a good 1/3 of the game, and the majority of Prime3 became a techno-wonderland (as opposed to earthy-organic), with many surfaces blooming just for the sake of blooming.  Additionally, Prime3 surfaces don't light up unless the "source" is close enough -- in Prime1&2, everything seemed to want to light up anyway, otherwise you just didn't see other eye candy alternatives applied, just reliable dull surfaces.

Clearly it does.  Another possible reason for practically eliminating dynamic lights from beam weapons is that it might have made the visuals too "busy" making aiming more difficult (particularly now that free aiming is an option).  That doesn't mean I have to like the new aesthetic priority.

I'm also under the suspicion that bloom lighting isn't "compatible" with the glowing triangle method, and bloom will have priority.  The bloom on a surface can be sufficiently bright, and I won't see them lit by Beam Weapons at all -- no superposition, no combined color values to produce greater brightness intensity.

This is not true at all.  They're perfectly compatible with one another, except Retro may have chosen to deliberately eliminate dynamic vertex lighting in certain areas for aesthetic or performance reasons.

By the way, this isn't a competition.  It's a blog post.

[Mario]

Great thread.

High-five, guys!

This isn't a competition.  Grow up.

It's a parody.

When you do a ****, you can't just change your mind and eat it back.

[Stogi]

God, I love reading a serious Pro post. They are always so insightful.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Hey gang, I just thought I'd remind everyone that anything offensive (in the eyes of the moderators)--such as acting like a troll--is subject to the rules.

Pro, Rize, and a few other people are having a serious discussion with valid points that add to the conversation. Rize isn't out to "get" anyone, and there's no need for personal attacks, gloating, or any other similar behavior. You can agree with Pro without talking trash. Also, with few exceptions, people are allowed to be mistaken, mislead, or otherwise wrong without it being held against them indefinitely.