There will be "no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging" in the localized version.
Nintendo of America, in a statement to us, has revealed that a controversial "drugging"/"gay conversion" support conversation in the upcoming game Fire Emblem: Fates will not be present in the North American and European versions of the game.
“In the version of the game that ships in the U.S. and Europe, there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters.” a Nintendo representative e-mailed us this morning.
In the Japanese version of Fire Emblem: Fates, you can gain S-Support, the highest level of a bond between to characters when pairing them together in battle, with several characters in the game. Most of these supports end in a marriage proposal, after several conversations between the characters.
One of the female characters, Soleil, is attracted to women, and often gets flustered and weak in the knees when she's around them. She often fears that she can't be a "strong and cool woman" because of this. Later in the support conversations if you pair her up with the male protagonist, he spikes her drink with a "magic powder" that makes her see women as men and vice-versa to help her "practice" around women. This was done without her knowing, as she fails to recognize the protagonist at the start of the conversation. Once the magic wore off, she found herself attracted to the male protagonist, and ends up proposing to him, saying that she fell in love with the female version of him, but now loves him as a male.
This was interpreted by many as not only casually drugging someone in order to alter their state of mind, but as a means of "gay conversion therapy", a method used by many religious organizations to change one's sexual orientation from gay to straight. This method is often seen as scientifically unfounded, abusive, and heteronormative.
Nintendo did not elaborate on how exactly these scenes would be changed in localized versions
Here's the ""controversial"" conversation: http://pastebin.com/bgQC0yEa (http://pastebin.com/bgQC0yEa)
"I managed to get my hands on a kind of magic powder… I’m really sorry, but a little while ago, I poured some of it into your drink."
Laffo at gamergators registering just to post in this thread. Did you guys get mad when they took out the boob size slider for the 13-year-old character in the other game too?Good job mistaking Lin for the customisable player character. This is the sort of thing that fuels accusations of moral police who don't actually play games.
...His intentions with this intervention were pure, as a commander worried about his subordinate.
It is correct that Kamui/Corrin initially gives Soleil the powder in secret; however, once Kamui/Corrin confesses, Soleil is understanding of his intentions and agrees to more of this "special training". I felt it was a little disingenuous to not include this second part.
No it's not. Her consent after the fact doesn't justify his initial actions. The first time he drugged her without her consent and unless you're going for the "despicable shithead" character arc, it's out of character for someone who's supposed to be the hero of the game.
Laffo at gamergators registering just to post in this thread.
Did you guys get mad when they took out the boob size slider for the 13-year-old character in the other game too?
No it's not. Her consent after the fact doesn't justify his initial actions. The first time he drugged her without her consent and unless you're going for the "despicable shithead" character arc, it's out of character for someone who's supposed to be the hero of the game.
I think this is a very interesting take on the Support. As you pointed out, stuff like that is hard to do; especially in something like Fire Emblem, since Awakening and Fates so prominently feature biological children. Fates does apparently have same-sex relationships, though, so I guess that proves it's not impossible to include.
I find it disappointing that sexuality is apparently viewed a checkbox: gay or not. Seems like this could have been a chance to make it more of a spectrum, where falling in love isn't strictly about gender and depends more about the person and taking time to build a relationship than what specific bits and bobs they have. But that's pretty heavy for some people, and hard to pull off decently in a video game script.
The (very limited) stuff I've read online made me think that's what the scene was going for instead of the "conversion" idea - but people are calling it out very strongly. Assuming those people have done their homework instead of just believing half-baked media reports about what actually happens, maybe it's good the scene has been cut.
...You know what, I'm fine with this one.
I can't believe how uch this franchise has become a combat dating sim.
Good job mistaking Lin for the customisable player character. This is the sort of thing that fuels accusations of moral police who don't actually play games.
Actually the criticism has already happened, has been judged to be valid, and has led to a positive change.[/size]Things went right, here.
Actually the criticism has already happened, has been judged to be valid, and has led to a positive change.That's not quite what I meant. I mean the game is already completed. Such criticism should be used in the production of later works, not the changing of current pre-existing works that have already been released in my personal opinion. And I feel that the criticism should be taken and judged by the original creators, not by a localization company such as NoA. In this case, the criticism is being taken and used by the wrong people. If one considers such content to be a fault, the original creators should be the one to change it in response to it since its criticism of their own game.
Things went right, here.
Maybe I'm just getting too old or have been too sheltered, but spiking someone else's drink just never stroke me as an "okay" thing to do.
As for the larger conversation on the philosophies of localization, I'm finding myself being more open to less-literal adaptations. Perhaps I'm being too complacent in thinking that something as radical as Robotech won't happen again.
As for the larger conversation on the philosophies of localization, I'm finding myself being more open to less-literal adaptations. Perhaps I'm being too complacent in thinking that something as radical as Robotech won't happen again.
Hey now...Robotech's one of the greatest strokes of creative adaptation ever made! ;)
(Yes, I know what you meant by that, but I do really like Robotech in its American form)
How very upsetting. This is happening so frequently of late that I find it difficult to support Nintendo of America at times. This removal of content is particularly troubling because it is actively changing some form of character development such as that of Soleil.Because we all know that having her drink spiked by a potential suitor is one of those truly irreplaceable life changing experiences for young women everywhere.
Its also removing some content that might've been enjoyable for gay and bisexual fans of Fire Emblem, all for the sake of not being offensive or uncomfortable for some players.I highly doubt anyone who is familiar with gay conversion therapy is going to be particularly thrilled about this one. Especially people who are in the LGBT community.
So I've been reading some more takes on this whole thing, including some of Soleil's other supports, and it seems that people have misinterpreted the script when it comes to Soleil's sexuality; while she gets excited around "cute girls", flirts like crazy with them and likes their company enough to get a stat boost when fighting with them (http://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Girl_Lover), she's not actually interested in a romantic relationship with them, which is supported by all of her options for S Supports/marriage being male.
With this known, I think it's important to ask how the situation in any way resembles gay conversion therapy. Soleil's not gay in the first place, and the intention of the powder was an attempt to help her not faint around women, not to make her stop liking them entirely. I also noticed that the article still says it's Soleil who proposes to the male Kamui when it's the other way around; are you going to fix that?
Kamui: Uh. Since the day you saw me as a girl? You couldn’t possibly mean… that you fell in love with the female me!?
Soleil: Yep!
Kamui: Oh God…
Soleil: But it’s okay. Right now, I also love the male Kamui. (...)
I've read all the lines now.
The writing is bad. The whole "I slipped you some magic power when you weren't looking" idea is straight out bad. Things being changed makes sense and isn't offensive at all.
However, I find the discussion going on around this whole event really distasteful. People are throwing around "date rape" and "gay conversion" in ways that aren't fully deserved. (I see the parallels, but what happens in game here is not equivalent. And that's significant.) In both cases, I strongly believe that using this language trivializing some truly horrible and disgusting real life events.
I also find it really distasteful how many people talk about sexuality as a switch instead of a spectrum. Is she a lesbian? Is she straight? Shame there aren't any other options... (?!) As long as she's making her own choices, with a clear and sober mind, and not hurting anyone in the process then I don't see why it's such a big deal who she does or doesn't like.
But hey: what do I know. Honestly, not much.
I've read all the lines now.But hey that's just a theory...
The writing is bad. The whole "I slipped you some magic power when you weren't looking" idea is straight out bad. Things being changed makes sense and isn't offensive at all.
However, I find the discussion going on around this whole event really distasteful. People are throwing around "date rape" and "gay conversion" in ways that aren't fully deserved. (I see the parallels, but what happens in game here is not equivalent. And that's significant.) In both cases, I strongly believe that using this language trivializing some truly horrible and disgusting real life events.
I also find it really distasteful how many people talk about sexuality as a switch instead of a spectrum. Is she a lesbian? Is she straight? Shame there aren't any other options... (?!) As long as she's making her own choices, with a clear and sober mind, and not hurting anyone in the process then I don't see why it's such a big deal who she does or doesn't like.
But hey: what do I know. Honestly, not much.
First, it happens in everyday life all the time. How many times have you bought your wife flowers or your girlfriend chocolate in order to influence their mood (okay a bit less shady). Is it just because its a 'magical potion'...some chemical reaction that we make such a big deal over it?Well yeah, that's kinda how drugs work.
Let's be serious, this is a lukewarm hallucinogen at best
What I say to these people is this, get a grip on reality and learn to take a story for what it is.
Chocolate produces chemical reactions as an aphrodisiac. Should we ban every boy from giving girls chocolate on Valentine's because it affects girls' emotional states and could therefore be considering drugging... or conversion(converting a girl to a singular love-interest over another)?
Congratulations, you have a 'Lesbian' girl(I hate labels) who happens to be interested in one guy in the entire universe. I really don't think we can call this conversion of her entire sexual preference because now she happens to like one guy in the universe...You do know that Soleli actually has your standard set of second generation marriages with male characters right? She isn't even the character who can enter a same sex relationship with a female Corrin. For someone who hates labels so much you sure seem eager to be the one doing the labeling.
...Here's a strange variation of the same exact story, an ugly toad an a princess meet. The ugly toad starts to like her but can't say anything because he's a toad and he's ugly...so she'll never approach him (basically the same idea as strapping on a Lesbian label). He decides to trick into her drink a magical potion to turn her into a toad for a few days so that they can talk and in the end the princess realizes she likes the toad regardless if he's ugly. (Forgive such a ludicrous analogy.) But does this story sound as creepy. Is this conversion? No! Now its about an innocent frog and a princess and we've completely removed the notion of labels on sexual orientation. It is simply one person creating for themself an opportunity they may have otherwise not had.
The fact that she's Lesbian in this particular story has nothing to do with the literal meaning. In the end it boils down to the simple paradigm."
"Person A likes person B. Person B has no initial interest in Person A. Person A tries to do something to create an opportunity for himself with Person B. Person B either rejects A still or realizes that she really can like person B and starts paying more attention to B.
Some how doesn't surprise me due to damage controllers.