Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread

[Soren]

I'll have to do some digging, but I read a really great post on NeoGaf a while back about how the smaller size of the game cases as well as further trimming the packaging would help offset the higher cost of cartridges.

There are also other ways Nintendo could further bridge the gap between cartridges and optical media such as lowering licensing fees and incentives for meeting sales goals.

I read that same post today. It's not just carts vs discs, or the cost of an optical drive. Smaller cases means you can fit more of them on boxes when you ship. You don't have to order two different kinds of boxes, print two different kinds of paper, etc. The savings would ultimately extend beyond the more cost difference of where you put the game.

[Evan_B]

Perhaps, though saying it's just to change item switching and wall-jumping is reductive. I'd argue that those things would make an already excellent game even better (excellenter?), something Nintendo has done quite successfully in the past such as the aforementioned Ocarina of Time 3D. I mean, Wind Waker HD only changed item switching and sailing (a precision-based move that demands mastery of the wind mechanic). I'm joking, of course. Obviously, there were other changes, point being, you can downplay anything if you try hard enough.

I think you're downplaying how great a game Super Metroid is.

[Adrock]

I think you're downplaying how great a game Super Metroid is.

I have stated on numerous occasions for nearly ten years on this forum that Super Metroid is my absolute favorite game, and it's not even really close. In the paragraph you didn't quote, I even call it "one of the best and most influential games of all time." So no, I don't think I'm downplaying how great a game it is.

I read that same post today. It's not just carts vs discs, or the cost of an optical drive. Smaller cases means you can fit more of them on boxes when you ship. You don't have to order two different kinds of boxes, print two different kinds of paper, etc. The savings would ultimately extend beyond the more cost difference of where you put the game.

[NWR_insanolord]

Super Metroid's a great game, but even the best games could stand to be improved. Fusion and Zero Mission have a lot of small tweaks that make them better experiences in many ways that I'd be very interested to see applied to Super. What would be really cool is a "Metroid All-Stars" kind of package, that includes Zero Mission, a Zero Mission-style reimagining of Metroid II, the tweaked version of Super Metroid we've talked about here, and Fusion.

[nickmitch]

Super Metroid's a great game, but even the best games could stand to be improved. Fusion and Zero Mission have a lot of small tweaks that make them better experiences in many ways that I'd be very interested to see applied to Super. What would be really cool is a "Metroid All-Stars" kind of package, that includes Zero Mission, a Zero Mission-style reimagining of Metroid II, the tweaked version of Super Metroid we've talked about here, and Fusion.

That would require Nintendo to care about Metroid.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think they care about Metroid, they just don't know where to go with it. It's a similar situation to where Star Fox was at. As we've said here, this kind of thing is something they could outsource, so it'd be a relatively cheap and easy way to show people the franchise isn't dead and give them a bit of time to figure out what they want to do with the next "real" Metroid game.

[nickmitch]

I think a new 2D would've been great.  Something to continue the main series.  The industry has been particularly starved for that kind of gameplay.

But I don't really like the excuse of them not having fresh ideas because if you wait long enough, "more of the same" feels fresh.  It's like with F-Zero.  They don't need to do anything "new" with it.  Just make one with shiny graphics.

[Evan_B]

LEAVE METROID ALONE

MAKE A KID ICARIS UPRISING SEQUEL

[Ian Sane]

How about a Kid Icarus game that's more in the style of the original?  What if they made a Kid Icarus on the SNES?  What would that have been like?  That would be cool to see.

Nintendo will say stuff like how they don't know where to go next with F-Zero or Metroid but then they'll gladly crank out another generic NSMB game.  The idea that they don't make sequels unless they have a new idea for it is marketing spin that they'll gladly abandon when they figure they can make an easy buck off of a cookie cutter sequel.  If Nintendo uses that excuse for a franchise it's because it isn't popular in almighty Japan, or just isn't that popular period.  They're not interested in Metroid because it isn't popular in Japan and their attempt to cater to that audience with Other M didn't work.

[KeyBilly]

Kid Icarus as a sequel to the original would be great.  I appreciate all the work that went into Uprising, but the original was more of an action-oriented adventure game than a shooter.  A very simplistic one with a lot of flaws, but the style, music, and general ideas were great.  An adventure game in 2D or 3D would make me want to buy whatever system it was on.

As for Super Metroid, it is so close to perfect that any changes would likely make it worse.  The way wall jumping works, for example, is important to the gameplay and flow of the difficulty.  If you change that, you'd need to change other things to rebalance it.  A new 2D Metroid is overdue, though.

[nickmitch]

One concern with a Super Metroid remake is that the studio might over do it.  Like a lot of people have said, the game is damn near perfect.  But, if given the chance for a remake, some studios might do more work than is necessary and end up making a far worse product.  I think MII is the safer bet, since there's so much to do, one wouldn't be tempted to overdo it.

[Ian Sane]

One thing they would probably do with a Super Metroid remake is add cutscenes in the modern style.  Super Metroid has some cutscenes but they're done using the same viewpoint as the game itself which I think is very effective and is a subtle way to do story which was quickly abandoned once we could do gaudy mini-movies with FMV and multiple camera angles.  Like in Zero Mission there is a little cutscene in a comic book style when Kraid shows in his giant form.  In Super Metroid he's just there and shows up.  No little pause where you think "oh here's a cutscene", just this big scary dudes appears in front of you.  Or Crocomire doing that last jumpscare as a skeleton.  That's great stuff and adds to the atmosphere.  A newer game would have this big pause while the cutscene loads up and you would know that some boss is going to make his introduction.  That's a method I thought was very cool when it was new in the N64/PS1 days but has lost most of it's impact today.  The fact that Super Metroid doesn't do that makes it stand out more and I think few devs would pick up on that and keep it as is.  Odds are the whole scene with the Metroid baby (AHHH, I said the forbidden word!!) would be done in a cinematic style under a mistaken belief that because it's more modern and is now technologically feasible that it would be the better way to do it.  Hell Sakamoto himself would probably have tried to play film maker if he could have back then.  We got something special that might have been by accident.

[NWR_insanolord]

If they went the All-Stars route they could just make a couple small tweaks to Super (the map and the item switch) and focus the bulk of their effort on the ground-up remake of Metroid II. If they were only doing Super Metroid they might feel compelled to change more, which I agree would have the potential to go badly.

[MagicCow64]

Hell Sakamoto himself would probably have tried to play film maker if he could have back then.  We got something special that might have been by accident.

This has been a bane on all kinds of game development. I hated FMV from the jump. So much of what makes those old SNES games stick with people is that you're playing an abstraction of something that you're building in your head, particularly games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI. It's a unique triangulation between your imagination and a document that gets lost with 3D representational environments and proportional characters and such.

Speaking of Metroid remakes, I played through Return of Samus on the VC for the first time while traveling a month ago. In many ways it's impressive for a Gameboy game, but man, you'd have to start from a cleaner scratch than even Zero Mission. Like, once you get into it, the game is deliberately a series of self-contained mazes, with each area presenting a more convoluted maze to memorize and navigate, dense with upgrades and expansions (and horrible Metroids!). I kinda don't think you can just straight-up adapt that design structure in today's world unless you did something really weird with it that would essentially be in a different genre. I would fucking hate it, but Metroid II could be a template for a procedurally generated rouge-lite, trying to get deeper with each run while keeping upgrades (some Chozo business could Teleport Samus back to the surface when her health gets critical.) Don't do this, Nintendo!

RE: Cartridges:

I'm all for it if those theoretical cost savings make it viable and there's a way not to piss off third-parties. Discs in every medium seem to be falling out of favor quite quickly, and were always kind of a shitty stop-gap in the first place while the internet built out. Returning to cartridges (make em several times larger than 3DS carts if only for show) could re-invigorate a sense of games as durable physical objects.

[Spak-Spang]

Super Metroid worked because the environment was the story.  The reason why games fail to capture the magic of the Super Metroid formula is because they think it is just about the game play mechanic of backtracking and powering up your character.  But Super Metroid had little moments in the environment that told the story...gave it atmosphere without taking you out of them game.  Sometimes those events only triggered once.  Sometimes the game played off the idea of back tracking and had events happen only after seeing that screen once.  It also never babied the player, you saw clues in the environment that helped tell you what to do.  You know other games even Metroid games didn't do that as well.  But in a way Super Metriod perfected the interactive cut scene.  And you know I never had a problem with Super Metroid's item select.  The wall jump was hard but you only had to do it once...and even then you really didn't have to go down there in the game. 

Actually the only problem I had with Super Metroid was the Power Up to see through walls and such seemed to come too late in the game.

[ShyGuy]

Spak-Spang is on point with the Super Metroid analysis.


On topic, Gamespot talks about the NX:

Are you seeing excitement through PowerUp Rewards members around the Nintendo NX?

There is some excitement around NX. Lately here, we’ve been hearing a lot more buzz than we have in the past. Nintendo is interesting in that they really are able to keep things as quiet as they can for a while. And then they just lost their leader, so they’ve gone through a mourning period and so forth. NX sounds exciting. We’re looking forward to it. They’re very innovative in everything that they do. I hope that they come out with something exciting and innovative. I think we’ll be dominant distributor of that platform.

http://www.alistdaily.com/uncategorized/gamestop-ceo-paul-raines-discusses-nintendo-nx-new-consoles-vr/

[Adrock]

I'm not sure how my suggestion that Nintendo find a small team to develop a near-straight Ocarina of Time 3D-style remake of Super Metroid (graphics update and item switching overhaul being just about it) devolved into a discussion regarding fears that Nintendo would allow another developer to practically change the entire game. Are we talking about the same Nintendo? I don't think it has ever greenlit a complete overhaul of one of its most beloved games so I don't know where this concern is coming from. At that point, the developer would be making an entirely new Metroid game. There is no point of a Super Metroid remake if the team wasn't making Super Metroid anymore. This entire discussion started because I doubted Nintendo trusting just anyone with one of its properties. Any team that gets its hands on a Nintendo IP is under strict supervision. You either make the game Nintendo wants or you don't get to make that game. Any concerns that a team handling a Super Metroid remake overdoing it seem unfounded to me.

[supermario2k]

Gamestop is a retailer, to them another Wii is more exciting than another Game Cube or Wii U. I am not sure if I would get my hopes up too high just yet.

I don't know why people get hung up on what developer is doing what game because they are just names of teams people come and go. t|The "team" that made Metroid Prime might not be the same people working at Retro on the new game, it could be people left over from the team that worked on Wii Music or Nintendoland for all we know. A company like Nintendo surely doesn't force people to stay locked in one department for the duration of their career.

EAD, Rare, Retro, Intelligent Systems, Namco, Bandai, Sega, etc, they are all just names the people come and go.

I want to be hopeful NX will be awesome and so far I am leaning more towards optimistic than I was before. Optimistic can turn south real quick with Nintendo it usually only takes one slip up to throw a monkey wrench into the whole shebang.

[ThePerm]

the guys who worked at retro(that are still alive) mostly work at armature. They are working on this game

...for the competition

[Shaymin]

I'm still curious when the Kickstarter for that is launching, and I think I have it nailed to June 25.

[Soren]

Armature's original output has been underwhelming really.

[Evan_B]

I think you're downplaying how great a game Super Metroid is.

I have stated on numerous occasions for nearly ten years on this forum that Super Metroid is my absolute favorite game, and it's not even really close. In the paragraph you didn't quote, I even call it "one of the best and most influential games of all time." So no, I don't think I'm downplaying how great a game it is.

Super Metroid is a great game, and is indeed one of the best games of all time. But influential? Yeah, I guess if you mean on the indie and Castlevania scene, maybe. Outside of that, Super Metroid hasn't done jack for the video gaming industry.

I think you're overstating how great a game Super Metroid is.

[ThePerm]

I'm sure Super Metroid influenced survival horror games.

[Wah]

No, Clock tower on the SNES did.

[Spak-Spang]

I think you're downplaying how great a game Super Metroid is.

I have stated on numerous occasions for nearly ten years on this forum that Super Metroid is my absolute favorite game, and it's not even really close. In the paragraph you didn't quote, I even call it "one of the best and most influential games of all time." So no, I don't think I'm downplaying how great a game it is.

Super Metroid is a great game, and is indeed one of the best games of all time. But influential? Yeah, I guess if you mean on the indie and Castlevania scene, maybe. Outside of that, Super Metroid hasn't done jack for the video gaming industry.

I think you're overstating how great a game Super Metroid is.

It is very hard to quantify how influential a game is.  Super Mario 64 influenced many games outside of the 3D platforming genre.  I am sure Super Metroid has influenced several games in ways we may never know.  You don't have a game that is regularly placed in top 10 lists of best games of all time without studying it and being influenced by it.