Topic: Comparing Wii U's Sales to GameCube, Wii

[Soren]

Instead they'll just release their planned games and fade away without attempting to salvage it (Mark my words) even though trying to save it is also a lost cause.  Wii U discontinued by Q2 2015.

Oh, I see we have another person predicting an early death for Wii U. It's "by Q2 2015" this time which is April 1. Care to make a wager? The last guy chickened out. Will you?

You just can't question that kind of wisdom. Wii U will be discontinued just a few months after Smash Bros is released. Bank it!!

[ShyGuy]

NWR: Were the news is usually late and the opinion pieces are usually negative!

The gaming press obsesses over the Wii U's failure like the tabloids obsess over Lindsay Lohan over-dosing.

Sorry, this just in over the news wire- Wii U sales are low and multiple mistakes have been made regarding the release of the platform. In other SHOCKING news, PS4 is outselling the Xbox One and AAA studios continue to close. 

[kkl97]

Wii U sales have definitely been dismal compared to their previous consoles. However, if Nintendo wants to turn it around, I believe there is still a chance for them to do so. They will most definitely finish last in the console race, but I think they can redeem themselves by acquiring developers or publishing games that are not the usual Nintendo 'norm'. For example, Titanfall is not your typical Nintendo type of game, but I'm sure their system can run it if they approach or bought a developer that is capable of producing such games. But all this has to be done NOW. I always wondered why Nintendo never bought any big developers with all the money they have in the bank. With all the franchises that were available with the THQ bankruptcy, they could have built a bigger portfolio for themselves. It was good to hear Iwata talking about acquiring different companies. Hopefully, it will not be just japanese developers but also western developers. Most games nowadays take at least 2-3 years in development to be released so if they want to bring back some respectability for their console, it has to be done now.

[Ian Sane]

Wii U sales have definitely been dismal compared to their previous consoles. However, if Nintendo wants to turn it around, I believe there is still a chance for them to do so. They will most definitely finish last in the console race, but I think they can redeem themselves by acquiring developers or publishing games that are not the usual Nintendo 'norm'. For example, Titanfall is not your typical Nintendo type of game, but I'm sure their system can run it if they approach or bought a developer that is capable of producing such games. But all this has to be done NOW. I always wondered why Nintendo never bought any big developers with all the money they have in the bank. With all the franchises that were available with the THQ bankruptcy, they could have built a bigger portfolio for themselves. It was good to hear Iwata talking about acquiring different companies. Hopefully, it will not be just japanese developers but also western developers. Most games nowadays take at least 2-3 years in development to be released so if they want to bring back some respectability for their console, it has to be done now.

This reminds me of when a sports team is clearly not a contender and they start stocking up on draft picks and trading for prospects to rebuild for the future.  Nintendo should definitely increase their development since the slow pace of releases on the Wii U demonstrates that they're not up to par.  Ideally by the time the Wii U successor is released they could have a large enough group development teams that they could effectively support the console by themselves at first because you can assume the third party support won't be there.  I agree that they should also seek out Western devs and go for devs that make games out of Nintendo's comfort zone.  Nintendo should have high standards of quality but shouldn't feel handcuffed to only certain types of games.

But then they talked about the extra demands of HD development back when other companies were struggling with it so they should have been well aware of it and they still got caught off guard.  I still don't get that.  Was their talk just spin and they didn't actually believe any of it?  Did they think it just wouldn't apply to them or that the Wii U would so easily recreate the Wii's success that game droughts wouldn't matter?

[nickmitch]

I think Nintendo thought 3rd parties would fill in more of the gaps.

But yeah, Nintendo could really use this time to build their personnel numbers.  Honestly, buying some teams and letting them make whatever and throwing it on the eShop could be how Nintendo finds their next big franchise.

[kkl97]

I think Nintendo thought 3rd parties would fill in more of the gaps.

But yeah, Nintendo could really use this time to build their personnel numbers.  Honestly, buying some teams and letting them make whatever and throwing it on the eShop could be how Nintendo finds their next big franchise.

This is another thing that really bothers me with Nintendo. They hold such tight leashes on how certain things should be done that a lot of potentially great ideas were probably tossed away before it could be really thought out. Their development teams may be creative, but their execution is so conservative and set in their own ways. I'm not sure if that is how businesses in Japan work in general, but in my brief time traveling in Japan, I noticed that they have a really disciplined but restricted caste system. You are pretty much doing as you are told. You do not question the higher ups. They do not respond well to changes. I think Nintendo in some ways falls into this category.

If third parties are not willing to develop games, they have to either create their own teams and build up their talent or buy the whole team. I'm sure if they are open-minded with their development, talented individuals will seek them as well. Most of us grew up with Nintendo and the same people would love to develop for the company they were so fond of back in the day.

[Segnit BGS]

 

The reality is that the biggest Nintendo fans have been neglected the most by Nintendo. To not much drama or fanfare, Nintendo has turned its back on the real Nintendo fans, leaving behind either the most obscenely irrational fan or just the younger generation (say younger than 25) who have yet to tire of experiencing a half dozen sequels to an old concept rooted in the 80’s or 90’s while the rest of the world has moved on to full blown interactivity and fresh IP such as Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen.

 Although I probably will regret it, please cite examples of Nintendo turning its back and neglecting fans.

 Rather than pursue an avenue of discussion that’d fracture the conversation further, it’d be far more productive carrying a policy of just trusting that most people are honest to themselves. So for example when fans - perhaps such as yourself - who’re currently satisfied with the quality of Nintendo products say something like “Nintendo is at the top of their game at the moment, damn the naysayers!”, then those - such as myself - holding negative feelings about Nintendo must still listen to such sentiments because they are genuine. Because you are genuine. Alternatively there is no reason to suspect that people who used to be Nintendo diehard’s but have since deserted them are fake.
And those are two extremes. Opinions don’t have to be so clearly defined to be so mutually understandable.
As for why I bring up Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen it’s simple. All of those IP’s are brand new. They had $0 in marketing, zero brand recognition, and zero brand loyalty and became absolute hits. Both Minecraft and DayZ inspired new genres spawning dozens and dozens of imitations and offshoots, each selling truckloads themselves.  You are right in that DayZ alone has sold 1.8 million units but its sales trajectory easily leaves room for more than a doubling of that figure. 0 to 1.8 million in just 5 months and the game is still in alpha, broken, imbalanced and selling rapidly.
As for Star Citizen, there is a unique reason for mentioning it. Ever heard of the expression “don’t just complain, vote with your wallet”? Well, as of the time of writing the project has raised $42,807,552 with still no gameplay available. Star Citizen might fail or end up a scam but what cannot be denied is that there are a LOT of gamers out there and so starved of space simulation that they are willing to take a risk and back an ambitious dream project.
If you ask any publisher – including Nintendo - if they’re happy to have missed the opportunity of engaging with such a generous consumer base and passing up on owning a new widely ambitious IP, what do you suppose their response will be?
I don’t want to fixate on any of these games because it’s the idea behind them that counts. The Nintendo I knew and loved was the cutting edge of gaming and game design. They were pioneers of new genres.
One day - perhaps in the distant future - we’ll have games be like Avatar or Star Trek; entire worlds to explore, ecosystems to protect, tragedies to uncover, dramas to unfold, population to protect, opinions to manage and justice to fight for. Games like Minecraft, DayZ and Star Citizen, though rudimentary, are on that path. Nintendo must again show interest in big ideas.
Smash Brothers was a big idea in its day. Mario Kart was a big idea in its day. Pikmin was a big idea in its day. Metroid was a big idea in its day. Goldeneye was a big idea in its day, Mario Galaxy was a big idea in its day. But since those days Nintendo became much more profitable before the decline, and yet the proportion of games with big ideas has gone down to zero even though quality has arguably remained as high as ever (i.e. Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World).
 

[Mop it up]

Wow, this thread is nuts.

I mostly agree with Phil, Khushrenada, Adrock, and Insanolord. I don't think I really have anything else to add though, they covered a lot.

I will say though, that I have conflicting feelings about the Wii U. Nintendo have certainly made some mistakes with it, and that should naturally result in lower sales. But sheesh, I don't feel the Wii U is as bad as its been selling, as I feel it already has a better library than the likes of GameCube and Dreamcast. And Miiverse shows that people generally like the system. Nintendo need to admit the mistakes they've made and correct them (they've done some of the first, but the second is the important one), and lower sales will help with that. But, I fear that if things continue like this, they'll just give up on the whole thing. And that would be a shame.

I want Wii U sales to pick up not because I necessarily think it deserves better, but because I want Nintendo to have enough reason to try again.

[Evan_B]

Hi, I'm that guy who hates Super Mario 3D Land.

I came in here to contribute, because I love Nintendo and I hate everyone.

So, as a Nintendo fan, one who grew up with a Game Boy and a PC and didn't receive a proper home console until the Gamecube when I was about nine or ten, and someone who firmly believes that Nintendo hasn't really changed from a software development standpoint, but the gamers that enjoyed their titles have changed, I wanted to say that I love the Wii U. I think its capabilities are neat and impressive, I think there's a ton of good ideas built into the system, and I believe that it can only get better with each new software update.

But, it is also a complete and utter ****-show. And I think coverage discussing that fact is extremely important. As RFN put it so bluntly- the Wii U is what happens when all of the risky business decisions Nintendo has banked on since the DS finally caught up with them. An innovative and unique idea that sacrifices the overall performance of the system to function, no multiplatform releases to buff out the miserable, repetitive library, no competency on Nintendo's part to release games steadily and with enthusiasm, and an over-reliance on marketing to a young audience to sell the system have all come to this. They have clung to tradition and a suicidal, high-stakes concept of hardware and refuse to adapt to what players really want- new experiences in gameplay and franchises, and hardware that has the ability to play a majority of titles.

Is this entirely their fault? No, I don't think so. Technology has evolved at such a rapid pace that I believe a conservative approach is really the only way to survive in the industry- but it also comes at the price of having your tech appear dated. In pushing their console first, Nintendo solidified the idea that it would be a halfway point between generations, in a number of ways. It's clear that it's an awkward console to develop for, at least by western standards, judging by the numerous comments made by developers.

Not even their method of pushing a bleeding console with their A-list titles has worked for them- at least, the Mario-related attempts haven't. I doubt Mario Kart will do much, and with the 3DS Smash Bros. coming out first, they're committing the Wii U version to obscurity. So what does Nintendo have left? I hope to god they understand the sort of situation they're in, and if they intend to have their video games be lucrative, they need to wake up and come out swinging in the next 12 months. Their disturbing silence these past few months can be taken either way, but ultimately, I think there is a reason they still exist today- because they can make good business decisions and turn a bad situation into a good one. They've proven that previously.

I love Nintendo, but I hate them very much at the moment. I love the Wii U, but I hate everything that makes it an easy pass for others. But I honestly cannot stand people who blindly defend the company just as much as I can't stand those who **** on it because it's not similar to the other contenders. We should be realistic in looking at sales figures and supporting an industry that is unique- most of all, we should support an industry that focuses on technical quality and productivity, something that, though Nintendo personally exemplifies with its titles, is not seen often in multiplatform and Triple-A gaming experiences- yet is also perpetuated by Nintendo's ass-backwards design and programming philosophy.

That's all I'm going to say about that.

[Mario]

I see Ian Sane is still rehashing the same posts from 2004.

[Segnit BGS]

What's your view Mario?

[CarterS]

I think that, if this were Nintendo's last home console, it would be the end of my days as a console user. I only ever play console games on Nintendo platforms anyways, and I play the rest on a gaming PC. That being said, I've registered, and will probably never log in again, seeing how the staff has responded to this grossly misinformed post.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I agree with the feeling that if you have anything negative to say even if it is how you genuinely feel people just dismiss your views and move on. I love NINTENDO, I grew up with their games but lately I am tired of their bull ****. I have had enough, apparently MORE people share my view than those who blindly love the system no matter what.


THIS is what pisses me off about the NEW Nintendo fan: If you ask which system was better SNES or Genesis you will get all Nintendo all the way, most will cite the "better" games, the "better" graphics, and the "better" innovation as to why it is the "better" system. Sales wise it did outsell the Genesis but in terms of quality games it is about pure equal from a subjective stand point. With Game Cube Nintendo fans bragged about how much more powerful it was than the PS2 and bitched all day long at how it was "stupid" for PS2 to be selling like it was. With Wii it was suddenly cool to buy an under powered console because who cares the motion controls were good, except the fans were not the ones buying the console, the hard core gamers were not buying the console, it was MOSTLY casual gamers who were only into Wii Sports and when they went to town to purchase a game for it they obviously bought the one their family would enjoy hence why Nintendo games sold the best, because they catered more to families.


Now the Nintendo fans, or the cheerleaders if you will, claim graphics don't matters, 'specs' don't matter, being innovative doesn't matter, all that matters is great games, even if the hardware is lackluster. I JUST bought a PS3 last year, I am loving ever minute of it and the library couldn't be better and I am already considering a PS4 this early because I can see how it has a bright future, but somehow I must be lying when I say that I WOULD have been interested in a new Nintendo console if it was I don't know on par with the competition. Here is a news flash, *I* Did buy an N64 and a Game Cube so I clearly count in that number of fans who stuck it out during the hard times, with Wii i lost interest, obviously a lot of others shared my feelings which explains the reason the sales are **** at the moment.


My reasons for not wanting to get a Wii U are because I hated the Wii. I understand some fans loved it and will claim it had all these great games, well here is the thing you can't cite ever fucking game they  make and say here is proof they made great games, some of those games are ****. The SNES had over forty games released by Nintendo alone, less than 15 of them are regarded as classics or remembered by the masses today. You make any top 25 list of the best SNES games and damn it to hell every single time you will see a MIX of third and first party games and only the BEST of the first party games get a mention, not **** like Uniracers or that weird Yoshi game nobody remembers. Nintendo has always made great games and they always have had **** but their third party partners were there to fill in the gaps.

Sony relied nearly entirely on third parties alone, the first PS1 had few true first party games. When I look at Game Cube I can write up an easy list of great games first and third party that I would go back and enjoy today, on the Wii I can name maybe five, total, that I would go back to, the rest I ALREADY played on the fucking PS2 a year or more before they were released on the damn Wii in the first place. The rest are garbage to me.


With Wii U I see at most five games I would buy, ALL first party. People talk like Wii U had great 3rd party support and then lost it, NO they had **** for third party support most of it was just last gen games or the same multiplatform stuff everybody was going to get, Game Cube had at least one of the best games that generation as a 3rd party timed exclusive and it still has some of the best games ever, same with n64, and even SNES/NES.

Super Mario 3D World looks like the best game out now, DKC:TP looks okay but even that is dividing the fans some love it as a throw back to the SNES games, others hate it and want a "N64" type sequel or something. Same with Mario. The point is we all have different wants and desires, Nintendo USED to cater to a larger audience because we USED to buy their machines and we USED to get excited for their machine. i stood in line in the fucking cold to get a Wii and I nad no regrets for the first year. I struggled to save up enough to get a game Cube because I couldn't live without I needed it in my life. I picked up an N64 with my first paycheck from my first real job and I didn't care that I had no games I was just happy to own the system and the one game I cold afford. Wii U is different, I have no excitement for it, nobody does.


There are those of you who bought it despite there being no excitement and you somehow either one really have no standards, two you are lying and secretly do regret it, or three you just love Nintendo so much you can't see their faults. Or maybe it's just your too young to remember the Nintendo we grew up with.


Want to know how fucking powerful THAT Nintendo was, just go to Youtube and look at all the people STILL making videos doing nothing but playing those old games, talking about those old games or **** just look at how successful James Rolfe was with his videos mocking the WORST they had to offer back then. Nintendo used to be a cultural force, an icon that literally meant playing video games. Nowadays they are a fucking joke and I am sorry but I don't care if you love the system, I hate it, and I can see that more people feel similar to how I do than you so I can say this, if the Wii U does continue to flop you will either face reality then or turn into bitter blind loyalists like the Sega fans have become. At least Atari fans had the good graces to move on. I know a lot to reed most will gloss over and pick out the one or two sentences they take issue with and have a field day but my point is there was a time when I was excited for Nintendo. Yes I remain hopeful they can turn it around and like many I post my issues in a public news forum where there is a slim chance someone of their marketing researchers might take notice and also just to vent, because that is how people are, if everybody just kept quite nothing would change. And voting with our wallets, clearly we have sent that message by not supporting an inferior product.


Right now I will get a Wii U the day it is discontinued and clearnced out ONLY because I know how the after market works and this **** will be a gold mine in fifteen years. The machine SUCKS I don't care how many games theymake for it the machine is a damn dissapointment it is the machine they SHOULD have released in 2006, or 2010 the damn latest.

[Soren]

Exemplary tale, mate.

[pokepal148]

I see Ian Sane is still rehashing the same posts from 2004.

And then he complains about Nintendo rehashing their games, hypocrite

[NWR_Lindy]

I might as well add my thoughts to this robust discussion.

Nintendo isn't going to kill off Wii U.  It may have a truncated lifecycle when compared to most consoles nowadays, but it will still be around for 4-5 years, 2016, 2017 would be my guess.  They'll try to break even on the project if nothing else, and make as much money off of software as they can until that time comes.  Their focus now is not so much "turning it around" as it is "riding it out".

I think Nintendo is moving in the direction of having a single OS that will allow them to port things around as they see fit. I don't know if there's going to be another console necessarily, but I don't think anybody has to worry about Nintendo devices going away.  They're going to take a page out of the iOS/Android (and heck even Windows) playbook and create an overall system architecture that they use across multiple hardware platforms (always remember that Iwata holds Apple in high regard).  This will allow them to release products - the health stuff is a good example - that all retain a familiar Nintendo look'n'feel but do things slightly or completely differently from their video game stuff. But more importantly, developers will have a single set of tools to work with.  This is typical Nintendo M.O.: observe market trends for a frustratingly long time, cherrypick the ideas they like, and then execute on them.

Good article: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-s-next-console-and-mobile-will-be-like-brothers/1100-6417496/

I've long held that Nintendo has wanted out of the console space since the GameCube days, but could never figure out a better way to deliver its experiences to consumers. Wii was an embodiment of this; Nintendo didn't want to jump into the arms race, but they knew a console was the only way to do what they needed to do so they released one with dated graphics hardware.  Now with mobile hardware being much more powerful they'll be able to do a lot more going forward (and in an arena where there is less emphasis on cutting-edge visual fidelity).

It is fascinating to watch the Wii U slow motion trainwreck, however.  I feel it really does signal a shift in the industry away from traditional consoles (Sony is already experimenting with Vita TV in Japan), and a sign that Nintendo needs to rethink its entire strategy from the bottom up. What it used to do doesn't work any more, and unfortunately they were the last ones to admit it.

[Mop it up]

Why does everyone keep generalizing so much?

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

If you want specifics I can do that. While it is very true Nintendo games have not changed we can pretty much all agree on that, the industry has changed. Gamers have grown to expect bigger and deeper experiences. Nintendo games are still fun, there is no denying that, if you gave me a Wii U for free I would probably play Mario 3D world and DKC every day. But that is not enough for me, I want more, and here is my problem, if I get a Playstation I know I am going to get the major games I want, Castlevania, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, Gran Turismo, and on top of all that I am going to get brand new experiences that I have never played before. I am going to get a machine that has ZERO limitations, it pushes technology to the limits, it has a fully integrated and simple online infrastructure that allows me to connect with strangers and best friends in a single instant, none of those things are true with Wii U, if I want to play a game online I have to KNOW the damn person a head of time, I have to trade friend codes with them and then I have to play on unreliable servers because Nintendo refuses to invest properly.


When I had a Game Cube there were very few games I couldn't get on the machine, sure there were a few I missed out on, like the FF, Kingdom Hearts, and a few others, but for the most part the games Game Cube had to offer were sufficient. I was okay without Final Fantasy because I had Star Fox Adventures, I had Tales of Symphonia, I had Crystal Chronicles, I had Zelda Four Swords, I didn't have to miss out on Mortal Kombat I had it day one and despite being a delay on Deception I had that too. I had Soul Calibur 2, I had Smash Bros. Melee and I had about five or so DBZ fighting games. Then I wasn't so upset that I couldn't play Silent Hill 2 because I had the best Resident Evil games I could get, if I wanted it I could have bought Eternal Darkness and had a similar experience and with Resident Evil 4 and REMake I was all set.


With Wii it was different, the best I could get was a handful of typical Nintendo fare, which to be honest were still good games, but I really started to notice the gaps for the first time, even with N64 there were droughts but there were not that many gaps, just about any major genre and franchise was available, RPG's were not but I had a PS1 for that and was just fine.


Now it is even worse with Wii U, there is not ever going to be a Mortal Kombat ever, Warner has already stated this, even though there is a brand new MK game in the works. There is a Super Street Fighter IV, the entire Tekken and Soul Caliber franchise missing from the Wii U line up, well unless you count a spin off that is just one game. The Wii could have been the console for FPS games and instead it turned into a dumping ground for mini game collections.


MY personal biggest issue despite the lack of games is the damn price, an issue I also have with PS Vita and 3DS by the way. I was aprehensive about buying a DS because it was a mere $30 more expensive than previous hand helds, the 3DS has been out what three years and still hasn't even dropped to what DS launched at, don't give me any inlfation BS because Nintendo kept their consoles  and hand helds priced the same for two decades, Sony seems to have learned that lesson too. Wii U costs fifty dollar less than a PS4 and is technologically on par with a $150 cheaper PS3 with a vastly superior library. I was OKAY with buying a Game Cube at a reasonable price because it was on par with the competition and it had a decent selection of games. With Wii the machine didn't have nearly all the games I wanted, and to be honest the ones that I would have enjoyed came out AFTER I sold the damn thing (hence why droughts are a BAD thing you can't string people along forever) but despite the lack of games it was reasonably priced and the virtual console gave it added value,  at least for a couple of years.


With Wii U the virtual console is a damn joke and aside from a very small handful of Nintendo remixes most of the eShop games can be had elsewhere already. if Wii U was priced let's say $200 right now I might get one but for what I get it is over priced and for the most part there is no value, the few games it does have might be the best damn games ever made this gen, but there are too few of them to justify a $300 console considering that 9 year old consoles with huge libraries and comporable tech are for sale for less and the next gen consoles are vastly superior techwise and library wise and are not that much higher priced. for the value I can get a PS4 for a hundred dollars more, pay the same price for games,a nd know that the industry is commited to the machine, at least for the forseable future. nintendo may or may not be commited fully to Wii U but the industry has moved on the consumer has moved on and why should I spend my hard earned money on a failed machine? After the fact Sega President made a claim that marketing the Saturn was damn near impossible, it might not be a direct comparison but I think five years from Now Iwata will be saying the about Wii U.

[MagicCow64]

Once again, walls of confused and angry text from people who hated the Wii, hate the WiiU, want to see Nintendo crash and burn. I get it: you like Playstation! You've got that! You can get all the Gran Tristero, Gall of War, etc., to your heart's content! Follow your bliss! What I don't get is people repeating the same screeds over and over again. If Nintendo broke your heart with the Wii, so be it, but that was eight years ago. Nintendo's not doing what you want, and will continue to not do that. Let it go! Move on! Finally donate your dead kid's toys! As of now, you're just hurting yourself. Why not migrate to Sony World Report and speak to folks there about how much you love your deeper video game experiences on that platform? No amount of wailing here will ever get you a Zelder Scrolls or F-Forzero or Super Mario Online or whatever weird fantasy game that skins Nintendo properties onto the PS4/Xbone properties you already seem completely satisfied by.

[broodwars]

Once again, walls of confused and angry text from people who hated the Wii, hate the WiiU, want to see Nintendo crash and burn. I get it: you like Playstation! You've got that! You can get all the Gran Tristero, Gall of War, etc., to your heart's content! Follow your bliss! What I don't get is people repeating the same screeds over and over again. If Nintendo broke your heart with the Wii, so be it, but that was eight years ago. Nintendo's not doing what you want, and will continue to not do that. Let it go! Move on! Finally donate your dead kid's toys! As of now, you're just hurting yourself. Why not migrate to Sony World Report and speak to folks there about how much you love your deeper video game experiences on that platform? No amount of wailing here will ever get you a Zelder Scrolls or F-Forzero or Super Mario Online or whatever weird fantasy game that skins Nintendo properties onto the PS4/Xbone properties you already seem completely satisfied by.

It warms my heart to see fanboys as butthurt as this by the presence of opinions other than their own.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28snhq40C8o[/youtube]

[Segnit BGS]

I wonder what kind of person you have to be in real life to write something so ill intentioned. It'd be great if you didn't take things so personally. Also, people are more important than a brand, don't forget.

[Segnit BGS]

Previous post @MagicCow64

PS: Why not edit button?

[Adrock]

Someone disliking something I like doesn't affect my enjoyment of it. Opposing views can be great for discussion though it pretty regularly devolves into clusterfuckery on NWR. How many times do the same things have to come up? I'm fairly confident I can provide counterpoints using nothing but old posts.

Still, it continues to baffle me that anyone would willingly participate in discussions about a company they claim offers them little to nothing in the way of entertainment. Oh, they used to. Okay. But they don't now? I'm sorry to hear that, but how many times do you all have to complain about it (not to Nintendo themselves, I might add, which is doubly confusing as well as counterproductive) before you get over it and do something else? Sure, if that's what you all want to do, but I can't say I understand it.

[Segnit BGS]

Adrock, it's not a reasonable thing to - unilaterally or in a partisan way - request a moratorium on certain subjects. Nevertheless, your desire to see a stop to disgruntled Nintendo fans expressing negative sentiments on a Nintendo fan site won’t go unheeded, as some percentage of the people (me included) will inevitably take the hint.

However those who ignore your request, staying behind to continue to publicly petition for change within Nintendo, those are great fans and great people. Because by sticking around they’re doing the Nintendo community a major service. How so? Well as a general rule of life, as the diversity of opinion is reduced anywhere, there will be an inevitable rise in radical opinion. It was true for the Guyana tragedy in the 70’s, it was true for the puritan Massachusetts Bay colony in the 1670’s, and it is true for any totalitarian dictator in any part of the world, present or past. It rings true in political, religious, economic, military and entertainment circles alike.

Wishing for exclusion is not a healthy state. Seeking isolation from criticism is not forward thinking.

It is always disappointing to see the deleterious nature of some of the remaining Nintendo fans, especially because I know we all love the same company that gave us commonly shared and cherished experiences not matter our (i.e. everyone’s) age or gender differences.

When people choose to criticize Nintendo, the criticisms must always be judged by their own merits. Attacking the critic or showing discontent towards them rather than the merits of the criticisms themselves, is at best an asymmetric form of non-engagement and at worst a personal attack that contributes to a qualitative deterioration of the discussion. It is a Red Herring and an Ad Hominem.

[Adrock]

I feel as if you didn't read a word I wrote. First, I made no such request for a "moratorium." Go ahead, actually read the post this time. I said I didn't understand the act of continued voluntary participation in discussions regarding a company that, apparently, no longer offers what you're looking for. You can, however, do whatever you please.

Second, registering discontent on a message board that isn't affiliated with Nintendo is doing nothing for your cause. What you're doing is the equivalent of standing on a random street corner with a picket sign and a bullhorn. If you want your words to reach Nintendo, perhaps consider actually sending them to Nintendo in a polite, yet firm manner. Not purchasing their products, which many of you have already done, is the only other recourse.

Third, you are not doing NWR any great service and claiming such is laughable at best and insulting at worst. Ian, for example, has constantly repeated the same complaints across three separate generations. That isn't excessive to you? You all either enjoy stroking yourselves to your own complaining, or you think every other forum member suffers from short-term memory loss thus requiring reiteration of these same complaints. I'm just going to spoil this bit for you: we're all aware of the issues, all of us, even and especially the ones who still like Nintendo despite the issues. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm perfectly fine with opposing views. However, it would be greatly appreciated if you all would stop acting like your criticisms are more valid just because you say them louder and with more frequency. I'm not wishing for exclusion. State your case, state it proud, but for the love of Jebus, state it once. Even someone with the most rudimentary comprehension skills can understand what you mean the first time.

Fourth, the people who aren't repeatedly and/or as openly criticizing Nintendo are also not beyond criticizing Nintendo. No one here is claiming Nintendo is perfect. We simply don't agree with the validity of all of your criticisms. More importantly, we just don't feel the need to clog the forums and steer so many threads in that direction.